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beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 12:24 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 12:47 AM
You have a speculative notion of Messiah that lacks comprehension and a barren notion of the grace that brings salvation.

God's Truth
June 24th, 2017, 04:24 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !

We are flesh, and we are spirit too.

The natural man is about a man who only wants to please his flesh.

Sin pleases the man who lives to please his flesh.

Not everyone only wants to please their flesh.

Some people are more spiritual and they want more out of life.

Some of the people who want more out of life, they want to be a child of God.

So they hear the words of God and do what He says.

God's Truth
June 24th, 2017, 04:26 AM
You have a speculative notion of Messiah that lacks comprehension and a barren notion of the grace that brings salvation.

Beloved57 is the one who is going to be the closest to your false beliefs.

God's Truth
June 24th, 2017, 04:57 AM
Hebrews 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

Zechariah 12:1 A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

Malachi 2:15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

We can live to only please the flesh and that is wrong,

Romans 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

Or we can live to please Jesus and that is how we are transformed to be spiritual, like Christ.

Galatians 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.


Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

2 Corinthians 2:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 05:27 AM
We are flesh, and we are spirit too.

The natural man is about a man who only wants to please his flesh.

Sin pleases the man who lives to please his flesh.

Not everyone only wants to please their flesh.

Some people are more spiritual and they want more out of life.

Some of the people who want more out of life, they want to be a child of God.

So they hear the words of God and do what He says.
Invalid comments!

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 05:28 AM
I take it that my comments are valid as they always go unchallenged.

Nanja
June 24th, 2017, 06:55 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !


Exactly! The term 'natural man' simply describes a carnal person, one who has not been Born of God.

New Birth must precede the believing Gal. 5:22 of the Gospel, because before then, Christ's Death on the Cross and what it accomplished for His Seed chosen in Him Eph. 1:4 is foolishness 1 Cor. 1:18, 23 Is. 8:20.

So it's only once a person is born again, that the Truth of the Gospel is revealed to them by the Spirit of God.

1 Cor. 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Rom. 8:8-9

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 07:06 AM
Man by nature is lost, in that hes under the power of the flesh, and the god of this world Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This is the plight of all men born of a women by nature, no exceptions ! It doesnt matter how moral, refined, or religious we are by nature, we are :

fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

And as long as were lost in this condition, the Gospel is hid from us 2 Cor 4:3-4


3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

However the darkness we are by nature does not comprehend the light of the Gospel Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness[man by nature Eph 5:8] comprehended it not.

Lost man in a state of nature cannot comprehend the Light of the Gospel. That word comprehend, the greek word katalambanō which means:


lay hold of with the mind


[*=left]to understand, perceive, learn, comprehend

The word comprehend is made up of the word lambanō which means :to receive 133 times in the NT, so naturally man cannot comprehend or receive the Gospel, corresponding with 1 Cor 2:14



[*=left]

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.





But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



He just cant lay hold of them with his mind because the carnal mind is enmity against God Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 07:13 AM
nanja


Exactly! The term 'natural man' simply describes a carnal person, one who has not been Born of God.

Exactly, all of us by nature born of a women !


New Birth must precede the believing Gal. 5:22 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gal.%205.22) of the Gospel, because before then, Christ's Death on the Cross and what it accomplished for His Seed chosen in Him Eph. 1:4 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Eph.%201.4) is foolishness 1 Cor. 1:18 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Cor.%201.18), 23 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Cor%201.23) Is. 8:20 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Isa.%208.20).

Amen !



So it's only once a person is born again, that the Truth of the Gospel is revealed to them by the Spirit of God.

1 Cor. 2:12-13 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Cor.%202.12-13)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Amen that exactly what this passage tells us !


Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Amen, its no guarentee we belong to Christ and He died for us until He gives us His Spirit !

God's Truth
June 24th, 2017, 08:49 AM
I take it that my comments are valid as they always go unchallenged.

You scorn people for replying to you. Now you think it means what you say is right. Wrong on both accounts.

God's Truth
June 24th, 2017, 08:50 AM
nanja

Exactly, all of us by nature born of a women !


lol Jesus was born of a woman.

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 09:11 AM
The "Natural Man" is the unsaved man. He has not been born again by the word of God.

"Having been born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible (Christ) by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.

When the natural man hears and believes the Gospel he is born again. Just like they were on the day of Pentecost. They heard the Gospel, they believed the Gospel and they were born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel.

"Then they gladly received Peter's words (the Gospel) and were baptized (into Christ) and that same day there was added unto them (the church) about 3000 souls" Acts 2:41.

Some hear and believe the Gospel and some don't. Paul wrote,

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them (natural men) but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into his rest" Hebrews 4:2, 3.

Everyone has the ability to hear and believe the Gospel and be born again, simply because God is not willing that any should perish" 2 Peter 3:9.

B57 and Nanja are heretic they have departed from the faith, don't believe anything that they say. Their doctrine is anti-Gospel, anti-faith, anti-Christ, anti-Bible and anti-God.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 09:22 AM
lol Jesus was born of a woman.

Okay, He is the lone exception !

Nanja
June 24th, 2017, 09:24 AM
nanja



Exactly, all of us by nature born of a women !



Amen !




Amen that exactly what this passage tells us !



Amen, its no guarentee we belong to Christ and He died for us until He gives us His Spirit !



Thank you Brother for your articulate comments, as always they are much appreciated!

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 09:27 AM
Thank you Brother for your articulate comments, as always they are much appreciated!

The blind leading the blind.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 09:27 AM
pate


The "Natural Man" is the unsaved man. He has not been born again by the word of God.

Thats right, so he cant receive the things of God 1 Cor 2:14. Also a lost man cant believe the Gospel because its being hid from them 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost/unsaved: It is because they are lost they dont believe !

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 09:44 AM
pate



Thats right, so he cant receive the things of God 1 Cor 2:14. Also a lost man cant believe the Gospel because its being hid from them 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost/unsaved: It is because they are lost they dont believe !

This is why Jesus told the disciple to, "Go into all of the world and preach the Gospel to everyone"

So that those that hear and believe can be saved, Because, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Oh, oh, there is that word again "Everyone".

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 09:50 AM
This is why Jesus told the disciple to, "Go into all of the world and preach the Gospel to everyone"

So that those that hear and believe can be saved, Because, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Oh, oh, there is that word again "Everyone".

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost !2 Cor 4:3, they cant believe it. The natural man cannot receive it 1 Cor 2:14 !

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 10:01 AM
The Gospel is hid to them that are lost !2 Cor 4:3, they cant believe it. The natural man cannot receive it 1 Cor 2:14 !

That's strange, because 8,000 natural men heard and believed the Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 10:08 AM
That's strange, because 8,000 natural men heard and believed the Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

You can quote all you want, The Gospel is hid to them that are Lost 2 Cor 4:3 ! The natural man cannot receive it 1 Cor 2:14 !

And you lied, where does it say in Acts 2 or anywhere else that 8000 natural men heard and believed the Gospel ?

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 10:59 AM
You can quote all you want, The Gospel is hid to them that are Lost 2 Cor 4:3 ! The natural man cannot receive it 1 Cor 2:14 !

And you lied, where does it say in Acts 2 or anywhere else that 8000 natural men heard and believed the Gospel ?


All you have to do is read the scripture.

beloved57
June 24th, 2017, 11:31 AM
All you have to do is read the scripture.
The natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14. You are a living example of proof!

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Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 02:13 PM
The natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14. You are a living example of proof!

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What you believe about God is what is going to send you to hell. It is very apparent that you don't have faith in him. You think that he damns people to hell before they are born. That is a terrible thing to believe about God and is blasphemy.

Nanja
June 24th, 2017, 03:48 PM
The natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him 1 Cor 2:14. You are a living example of proof!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Amen, yes he is!

Bright Raven
June 24th, 2017, 03:55 PM
Amen, yes he is!Matthew 5:44-48 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

beloved57
August 16th, 2017, 11:43 AM
The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man, it cant be known except by superatural revelation. Paul when an natural man in the jews religion im sure he heard naturally that Christ died for sinners, however he hadnt had the Gospel revealed to him then, save by natural understanding. He writes later that the Gospel was revealed, a revelation Gal 1:11-12

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And so it is with all who come to receive it and believe it, its revealed to them by the agency of Christ's Spirit 1 Cor 2:7-10


7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Now the Wisdom of God in Vs 7 above is the Gospel of Christ, its to preach Christ 1 Cor 1:23-24


23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

This Wisdom of God Christ crucified and what it means in the eternal counsels of God is a mystery to the natural man, it can only be known by revelation. If people tell you that natural born children can learn and believe the Gospel of Christ, they are false witnesses, unless they're taught it by revelation as well as anyone else !

Nanja
August 17th, 2017, 07:46 AM
beloved57


This Wisdom of God Christ crucified and what it means in the eternal counsels of God is a mystery to the natural man, it can only be known by revelation. If people tell you that natural born children can learn and believe the Gospel of Christ, they are false witnesses, unless they're taught it by revelation as well as anyone else !


Amen to that! The Gospel of Christ is only revealed to the New Spiritual Man, regardless of whether being a child or adult, as a result of New Birth. Therefore, every Elect individual that Christ redeemed from sin by His Death Eph. 1:4-7; Rom. 8:33, His Spirit makes their forgiveness / remission of sins experimentally known to them Rom. 1:17: Their Salvation is revealed to their New Heart / Mind [leb] Ezek. 36:26-27; Luke 1:77, exactly as you have shown how the Apostle Paul speaks of receiving the Gospel Gal. 1:11-12.

God's Truth
August 17th, 2017, 10:05 AM
RP and Calvinists arguing about who obeys God the least.

Only those who believe and obey Jesus will be saved, and you both preach against it.

God's Truth
August 17th, 2017, 10:09 AM
What you believe about God is what is going to send you to hell. It is very apparent that you don't have faith in him. You think that he damns people to hell before they are born. That is a terrible thing to believe about God and is blasphemy.

You believe and preach that those who preach obedience to Christ are going to hell.

You both should be afraid.

God's Truth
August 17th, 2017, 10:13 AM
Just think about it more carefully:

Calvinists: God sends people to hell and saves others, these others are saved for nothing and for no knowable reason.

Robert Pate and other faith only people: God send people to hell who have obeyed what He said to do.


Which God is worse? I say the faith only one. However, you both are equal on hindering people from being saved.

Truster
August 17th, 2017, 11:28 PM
You have a speculative notion of Messiah that lacks comprehension and a barren notion of the grace that brings salvation.

Furthermore you have no experience of the power of the evangelism.

While in my sins and my natural state I received the evangelism and the effects thereof and therein by mighty power:


For our evangelism came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

Truster
August 17th, 2017, 11:33 PM
PS


For I am not ashamed of the evangelism of Messiah: for it is the power of Elohim unto salvation to everyone that trusteth;


This power is not speculative it is felt by the regenerate at the point of regeneration. Something you have read about, talked about, written about, but never felt.

oatmeal
August 18th, 2017, 04:40 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !

The things of the spirit of God that is being referred to is the manifestation of the spirit which is given to every man (every believer) to profit withal

I Corinthians 12:8-10

Until a man is born again of God's spirit, the natural man cannot be a spiritual man, but once an individual decides that Jesus is lord and confesses so with his mouth and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead, Romans 10:9-10, then that man has the potential to become a spiritually minded man as the word speaks of being spiritually minded.

Those who are not spiritually minded do not speak in tongues, they do not interpret tongues, they so not give forth words of prophecy, they do not receive the words of knowledge and wisdom and the discerning of spirits when given by God, let alone believe that revelation and do miracles and give gifts of healing.

Until a man is born again, he is a natural man, he needs to hear the gospel to believe, when he does he may choose to believe or choose otherwise, if he chooses to believe, he becomes more than just body and soul, he received the gift of spirit from God, eternal life spirit, holy spirit. I John 4:13

beloved57
August 18th, 2017, 10:26 AM
The things of the spirit of God that is being referred to is the manifestation of the spirit which is given to every man (every believer) to profit withal

I Corinthians 12:8-10

Until a man is born again of God's spirit, the natural man cannot be a spiritual man, but once an individual decides that Jesus is lord and confesses so with his mouth and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead, Romans 10:9-10, then that man has the potential to become a spiritually minded man as the word speaks of being spiritually minded.

Those who are not spiritually minded do not speak in tongues, they do not interpret tongues, they so not give forth words of prophecy, they do not receive the words of knowledge and wisdom and the discerning of spirits when given by God, let alone believe that revelation and do miracles and give gifts of healing.

Until a man is born again, he is a natural man, he needs to hear the gospel to believe, when he does he may choose to believe or choose otherwise, if he chooses to believe, he becomes more than just body and soul, he received the gift of spirit from God, eternal life spirit, holy spirit. I John 4:13

Denial and rabbit trail !

oatmeal
August 19th, 2017, 08:10 AM
Denial and rabbit trail !

Awesome!

Nice try!

How will a natural man a man of body and soul only, a carnal man, ever believe to become a spiritually minded man if it is, as you say impossible for a natural man to receive the gospel?

If you are right, then it is impossible for anyone to believe any of God's word, it is even impossible for you!

We were all dead in trespasses and sins without Christ and with God and without hope Ephesians 2:1-3,12

How did you believe the gospel if it is impossible to believe the gospel?

Don't try that line that God did it all for you without your consent and believing.

Have you ever read Romans 10:9-10

IF you confess and believe.. Did you choose to confess and believe? You had to if you are saved.

God's Truth
August 19th, 2017, 08:25 AM
Furthermore you have no experience of the power of the evangelism.

While in my sins and my natural state I received the evangelism and the effects thereof and therein by mighty power:


For our evangelism came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

The Holy Spirit came upon them with power because God who knows everyone's heart knew those people were really right in the heart.

God's Truth
August 19th, 2017, 08:33 AM
PS


For I am not ashamed of the evangelism of Messiah: for it is the power of Elohim unto salvation to everyone that trusteth;


This power is not speculative it is felt by the regenerate at the point of regeneration. Something you have read about, talked about, written about, but never felt.

No one is given the Holy Spirit/regenerated until they are accepted by God, after they believe and obey God.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

beloved57
August 24th, 2017, 11:59 PM
The Gospel in that its the Wisdom of God, its a hidden Wisdom and a Mystery to the natural world 1 Cor 2:6-7

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The Gospel is hidden from the natural world in general!

oatmeal
August 25th, 2017, 04:50 AM
There is more to the gospel than just the things of the spirit of God.

Spiritual matters cannot be understood by the natural man, but the other matters that the gospel includes leads the natural man to God and His word and the carnal Christian to grow spiritually

Nanja
August 25th, 2017, 06:58 AM
The Gospel in that its the Wisdom of God, its a hidden Wisdom and a Mystery to the natural world 1 Cor 2:6-7

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The Gospel is hidden from the natural world in general!


The Gospel is a Mystery, and hidden from the natural world because it's a Spiritual message 1 Cor. 2:13 about Salvation that can only be received by Faith of the Spiritual Man who has already been Quickened with Spiritual Life given in New Birth Gal. 5:22. And which bears evidence that they are Elect of God and made perfect forever by Christ's Death for them Heb. 10:14.


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

beloved57
October 25th, 2017, 09:18 AM
The Gospel of Christ is a Mystery, so it must be revealed. Eph 6:19

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 4:3

Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

So it must be revealed to God given Faith. Notice Rom 1:16-17

6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Its revealed to babes n Christ Matt 13:11

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Now in order for them to be babes they had to be born anew !

Nanja
October 25th, 2017, 03:45 PM
The Gospel of Christ is a Mystery, so it must be revealed. Eph 6:19

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 4:3

Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

So it must be revealed to God given Faith. Notice Rom 1:16-17

6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Its revealed to babes n Christ Matt 13:11

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Now in order for them to be babes they had to be born anew !


So True ! Once they are made Spiritually Alive in new birth are they given the Fruit of Faith Gal. 5:22 and become Spiritually equipped to receive the things of the Spirit of God, of which the Gospel is 1 Cor. 2:13.

1 Cor. 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us [The Church of God, sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be Saints 1 Cor. 1:2 ] by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only faith the natural man can exert is carnal, a work of the flesh and mind [Gr. ergon] which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

oatmeal
October 26th, 2017, 04:56 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !

The things of the spirit of God means the things of the the spirit of God

The natural man is carnally minded not spiritually minded, therefore spiritual things are foolishness unto them.

What is a thing of the spirit of God? Those things that come from God.

That would of course include God's word, his logos, as well as the manifestation of the spirit, those operations of the spirit as listed in I Corinthians 12:8-10

A person who is carnal, whether a natural man or someone born again of God's spirit who has not yet believed to become spiritually minded will ignore or reject the things of the Spirit of God such a speaking in tongues, etc even though God's word tells us it is given to every man, every believer to profit withal

Many Christians remain carnally minded, they lose out on the profit of utilizing the things of the Spirit of God

beloved57
October 26th, 2017, 07:21 AM
The things of the spirit of God means the things of the the spirit of God

The natural man is carnally minded not spiritually minded, therefore spiritual things are foolishness unto them.

What is a thing of the spirit of God? Those things that come from God.

That would of course include God's word, his logos, as well as the manifestation of the spirit, those operations of the spirit as listed in I Corinthians 12:8-10

A person who is carnal, whether a natural man or someone born again of God's spirit who has not yet believed to become spiritually minded will ignore or reject the things of the Spirit of God such a speaking in tongues, etc even though God's word tells us it is given to every man, every believer to profit withal

Many Christians remain carnally minded, they lose out on the profit of utilizing the things of the Spirit of God

This post and thread is about the natural man cant receive the Gospel, its foolishness to them, hence they cant believe the Gospel to be saved.

beloved57
October 26th, 2017, 07:24 AM
oatmeal


A person who is carnal, whether a natural man or someone born again of God's spirit who has not yet believed to become spiritually minded

False statement. A person cant believe in order to become spiritually minded. The natural man cant believe the Gospel because its foolishness to him, he cant spiritually discern the Gospel 1 Cor 2:14

God's Truth
October 26th, 2017, 09:01 AM
The natural man cannot receive the gospel is about people who only want to please their flesh, they cannot please God because God tells us not to please our flesh with sin.

oatmeal
October 26th, 2017, 04:44 PM
This post and thread is about the natural man cant receive the Gospel, its foolishness to them, hence they cant believe the Gospel to be saved.

If that is the case then no one including you can be saved

Nanja
October 26th, 2017, 05:35 PM
If that is the case then no one including you can be saved

The first action in all those Chosen of the Father in Union with Christ to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4, is that He Quickens them Ps. 80:18 KJV, makes them Spiritually Alive, so they can Believe on Him Gal. 5:22; Phil. 1:29 and call upon His Name Rom. 10:13. It's evidence of their being Saved before the World began.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

God's Truth
October 26th, 2017, 07:49 PM
The natural man cannot receive the gospel is about people who only want to please their flesh, they cannot please God because God tells us not to please our flesh with sin.

Not all are as the natural man of the flesh. We are flesh and spirit, and some are more spiritual than others and want more out of life than to please their flesh.

oatmeal
October 26th, 2017, 10:55 PM
oatmeal



False statement. A person cant believe in order to become spiritually minded. The natural man cant believe the Gospel because its foolishness to him, he cant spiritually discern the Gospel 1 Cor 2:14

Well, you might want to read Romans 8 sometime.

Those who become spiritually minded are those who learn to receive the things of the Spirit of God.

Those who choose to think carnal thoughts, including Christians remain carnally minded.

Many a Christian chooses not to or does not know how to become spiritually minded.

oatmeal
October 26th, 2017, 10:59 PM
The first action in all those Chosen of the Father in Union with Christ to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4, is that He Quickens them Ps. 80:18 KJV, makes them Spiritually Alive, so they can Believe on Him Gal. 5:22; Phil. 1:29 and call upon His Name Rom. 10:13. It's evidence of their being Saved before the World began.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began



God having foreknowledge of whether people would choose to believe or not, recognized those who would choose to believe long before they ever existed..

Thus God could and did plan ahead for them.

Including giving us a holy calling according to His purpose which God having foreknowledge could then give us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

You do believe that God has foreknowledge do you not?

Nanja
October 27th, 2017, 04:53 AM
God having foreknowledge of whether people would choose to believe or not, recognized those who would choose to believe long before they ever existed..

Thus God could and did plan ahead for them.

Including giving us a holy calling according to His purpose which God having foreknowledge could then give us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

You do believe that God has foreknowledge do you not?


Scripture declares that the natural man can't receive the things of the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2:14, which believing on Christ and His Words are. And he has no understanding of God and spiritual matters because his understanding is darkened, and alienated from the Life of God!

Eph. 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

And his condition of being alienated from God does not change unless and until he is brought into another condition passively by the Holy Spirit, namely New Birth.


So before New Birth a person's own believing is a work [ergon] of the mind and flesh that cannot please God.


ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1


First a person must be Born of the Spirit, then the good work of Believing with his New Mind / Heart Ezek. 36:26 pleases God Rom. 8:9.

beloved57
October 27th, 2017, 11:12 AM
If that is the case then no one including you can be saved

Foolish unlearned comment.

beloved57
October 27th, 2017, 11:12 AM
The natural man cannot receive the gospel is about people who only want to please their flesh, they cannot please God because God tells us not to please our flesh with sin.

Comment not scriptural !

beloved57
October 27th, 2017, 11:15 AM
God having foreknowledge of whether people would choose to believe or not, recognized those who would choose to believe long before they ever existed..

Thus God could and did plan ahead for them.

Including giving us a holy calling according to His purpose which God having foreknowledge could then give us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

You do believe that God has foreknowledge do you not?

Invalid comments not in scripture, also evasion of the Truth of 1 Cor 2:14. This thread is about the natural man cannot receive, understand the things of God.

God's Truth
October 27th, 2017, 02:37 PM
Comment not scriptural !

We are flesh AND SPIRIT. I gave you scriptures.

And common sense tells you that not all only want to sin with their flesh.

beloved57
October 27th, 2017, 09:30 PM
We are flesh AND SPIRIT. I gave you scriptures.

And common sense tells you that not all only want to sin with their flesh.

More invalid comments!

Danoh
October 28th, 2017, 12:24 AM
That's strange, because 8,000 natural men heard and believed the Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

Yep.

And Paul was referring to various, failed means of relying on the senses for perception.

His meaning is that his spirit had received information about the things of God from the Spirit of God Himself (which is why the lower case "spirit" in those passages, at least in the KJV).

Paul was contrasting what had been the basis of his perception with what is the basis of other modes of perception.

The thing there about the natural man is the issue of how that what Paul's "spirit" had received from God's Spirit was not information that relying on one's natural senses is able to come up with, let alone, fathom.

He is not saying the natural man can not understand those things (after they are revealed), rather; that the natural man is not able to come up with them on his own - they were - the things of God - that only God had known of until He - revealed them by His Spirit - to - and through - Paul's spirit, to his readers.

Readers who though saved, could not discern his words on said things of God because they were "yet carnal" 1 Cor. 3.

This is all the same issue Paul has been going on about in that chapter, in different words, each time.

The sense of it all is the same as that of Peter's in 2 Peter 1.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Both men were merely talking about The Process of Devine Inspiration.

Peter's having been in connection with that which had been Prophesied.

In contrast, Paul's sense had been in connection with that which had not been Prophesied...

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Note the contrast between those Believers whom Paul relates Isaiah had written that to, and those Believers to whom Paul writes about the following revelation to, and he then goes into, for a brief moment....

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Acts 17:11, 12.

Danoh
October 28th, 2017, 12:29 AM
Delete

glorydaz
October 28th, 2017, 01:23 AM
This post and thread is about the natural man cant receive the Gospel, its foolishness to them, hence they cant believe the Gospel to be saved.

No verse says the natural man can't receive the Gospel, but this verse says faith comes by hearing the word of God.


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Try hearing the Gospel being preached....reading the Word. You can be saved yet.

beloved57
October 28th, 2017, 01:46 AM
No verse says the natural man can't receive the Gospel, but this verse says faith comes by hearing the word of God.


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Try hearing the Gospel being preached....reading the Word. You can be saved yet.

Yes it does. You just ignored it.

God's Truth
October 28th, 2017, 09:18 AM
Yep.

And Paul was referring to various, failed means of relying on the senses for perception.

His meaning is that his spirit had received information about the things of God from the Spirit of God Himself (which is why the lower case "spirit" in those passages, at least in the KJV).

Paul was contrasting what had been the basis of his perception with what is the basis of other modes of perception.

The thing there about the natural man is the issue of how that what Paul's "spirit" had received from God's Spirit was not information that relying on one's natural senses is able to come up with, let alone, fathom.

He is not saying the natural man can not understand those things (after they are revealed), rather; that the natural man is not able to come up with them on his own - they were - the things of God - that only God had known of until He - revealed them by His Spirit - to - and through - Paul's spirit, to his readers.

Readers who though saved, could not discern his words on said things of God because they were "yet carnal" 1 Cor. 3.

This is all the same issue Paul has been going on about in that chapter, in different words, each time.

The sense of it all is the same as that of Peter's in 2 Peter 1.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Both men were merely talking about The Process of Devine Inspiration.

Peter's having been in connection with that which had been Prophesied.

In contrast, Paul's sense had been in connection with that which had not been Prophesied...

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Note the contrast between those Believers whom Paul relates Isaiah had written that to, and those Believers to whom Paul writes about the following revelation to, and he then goes into, for a brief moment....

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Acts 17:11, 12.

Jesus chooses to save those who fear God and who do what is right.


Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God

1 John 5:3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,

John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them.

1 Samuel 2:30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.' But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.


Psalm 91:14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

Proverbs 1:23Repent at my rebuke!
Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
I will make known to you my teachings.

beloved57
October 28th, 2017, 11:06 AM
gt


Jesus chooses to save those who fear God and who do what is right.

False teaching ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

God's Truth
October 28th, 2017, 12:07 PM
gt



False teaching ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

Being reconciled while enemies is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised first.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

beloved57
October 28th, 2017, 02:59 PM
Being reconciled while enemies is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised first.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

False comments!

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 12:42 AM
False comments!

Carnal minded people prove we have to stop sinning to be saved.

Romans 8:7-8

beloved57
November 2nd, 2017, 02:59 AM
Carnal minded people prove we have to stop sinning to be saved.

Romans 8:7-8

False and invalid comment !

beloved57
January 14th, 2018, 09:24 AM
Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


The word see here is the greek word eidō:



to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

And the Kingdom of God here is simply another form of expression for the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the things concerning Him. Like when written in the Acts 28:31

Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Now Jesus declares with all solemnity that a person cannot understand those things unless born again !

Not until the New Birth from above, which gives one new Spiritual Life, we dont have the Spiritual faculties to receive Spiritual Truth as Per Paul 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man simply is anyone who hasnt been born again.

The natural man cant spiritually discern the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Now this doesnt mean that the natural man cannot naturally hear and digest the things of God, but he cant spiritually hear and digest them !

oatmeal
January 14th, 2018, 09:55 AM
1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It should be no question that the things of the Spirit of God here is the Gospel, and they must be spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is called foolishness to the natural man again here by Paul 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now the Gospel is light 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


However, darkness cannot comprehend the light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And men by nature are darkness until made light in the Lord Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

As long as we are darkness by nature, we cannot comprehend the Gospel, the things of God in it, it will be foolishness unto us.

The carnal natural mind is at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This is true even if its naturally moral and religious !

You mean that the natural man cannot read scripture?

How absolutely ignorant and foolish!

beloved57
January 14th, 2018, 10:01 AM
You mean that the natural man cannot read scripture?

How absolutely ignorant and foolish!
I mean exactly what i posted. Read it word for word. And we will discuss it.

Nanja
January 15th, 2018, 08:44 AM
Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


The word see here is the greek word eidō:



to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

And the Kingdom of God here is simply another form of expression for the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the things concerning Him. Like when written in the Acts 28:31

Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Now Jesus declares with all solemnity that a person cannot understand those things unless born again !

Not until the New Birth from above, which gives one new Spiritual Life, we dont have the Spiritual faculties to receive Spiritual Truth as Per Paul 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man simply is anyone who hasnt been born again.

The natural man cant spiritually discern the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Now this doesnt mean that the natural man cannot naturally hear and digest the things of God, but he cant spiritually hear and digest them !





Exactly! The ability to spiritually hear and believe the Gospel must be preceded by being Born of God, or Born from Above: Given a New Spirit Ezek. 36:26; John 3:27, to equip a person to see [understand] the Gospel according to the Power of God 2 Tim. 1:8-9.

beloved57
January 15th, 2018, 08:48 AM
Exactly! The ability to spiritually hear and believe the Gospel must be preceded by being Born of God, or Born from Above: Given a New Spirit Ezek. 36:26; John 3:27, to equip a person to see [understand] the Gospel according to the Power of God 2 Tim. 1:8-9.

Amen!

beloved57
March 1st, 2018, 01:08 PM
Regeneration must precede Faith simply because Faith requires a Spiritual Hearing Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus says that one is of God to hear Gods Words Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even[B] because ye cannot hear my word.




47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



Man naturally cant hear Gods Word Spiritually. Yes we can hear naturally like even these jews Jesus spake to could, but not Spiritually. So regeneration [being of God must go before Faith !

God's Truth
March 1st, 2018, 01:22 PM
Regeneration must precede Faith simply because Faith requires a Spiritual Hearing Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus says that one is of God to hear Gods Words Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even[B] because ye cannot hear my word.




47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



Man naturally cant hear Gods Word Spiritually. Yes we can hear naturally like even these jews Jesus spake to could, but not Spiritually. So regeneration [being of God must go before Faith !

Regeneration means one received the Holy Spirit.

No one who does not first believe and obey cannot receive the Holy Spirit.

God does not save unbelievers.

God does not save those who hate Him.

beloved57
March 1st, 2018, 01:32 PM
Regeneration means one received the Holy Spirit.

No one who does not first believe and obey cannot receive the Holy Spirit.

God does not save unbelievers.

God does not save those who hate Him.

Evasion and Rabbit trail !

Nanja
March 1st, 2018, 04:24 PM
Regeneration must precede Faith simply because Faith requires a Spiritual Hearing Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus says that one is of God to hear Gods Words Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even[B] because ye cannot hear my word.




47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



Man naturally cant hear Gods Word Spiritually. Yes we can hear naturally like even these jews Jesus spake to could, but not Spiritually. So regeneration [being of God must go before Faith !


Absolutely Brother!

A spiritually dead person [unregenerate] is prevented from hearing / comprehending God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor. 2:13. So it's not possible for a person to hear the Gospel unto Salvation if he/she isn't first Born of the Spirit of God John 8:43, 47.

And it's only the portion of mankind who are God's Elect, Jesus' Sheep, who are those that shall Hear His Voice John 10:27 because they are given Hearing ears by which Faith cometh Rom. 10:17.

Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

beloved57
March 1st, 2018, 05:42 PM
Absolutely Brother!

A spiritually dead person [unregenerate] is prevented from hearing / comprehending God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor. 2:13. So it's not possible for a person to hear the Gospel unto Salvation if he/she isn't first Born of the Spirit of God John 8:43, 47.

And it's only the portion of mankind who are God's Elect, Jesus' Sheep, who are those that shall Hear His Voice John 10:27 because they are given Hearing ears by which Faith cometh Rom. 10:17.

Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Amen !

beloved57
October 14th, 2018, 04:07 AM
See man by nature , his mind is naturally opposed and at enmity against God, so says the scripture Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Please understand its enmity against the True God of scripture. Man naturally may be reconciled to a god, the god of his own darkened understanding, but Paul speaks here of the True God. The carnal mind is simply any person who hasnt been born again, they're in the flesh.

Nanja
October 14th, 2018, 07:25 AM
See man by nature , his mind is naturally opposed and at enmity against God, so says the scripture Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Please understand its enmity against the True God of scripture. Man naturally may be reconciled to a god, the god of his own darkened understanding, but Paul speaks here of the True God. The carnal mind is simply any person who hasnt been born again, they're in the flesh.


Amen, man by nature is in total opposition to the True God and His Gospel, and the only remedy is to be made Spiritually Alive [passively] in New Birth Ezek. 36:26-27, which shall occur in time for all who were reconciled to God while being His enemies Rom. 5:9-10 because of the Obedience of Christ on their behalf Rom. 5:19.

beloved57
October 14th, 2018, 08:26 AM
Rom 8:7 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Rom%208.7)

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

May I elaborate some here. This scripture informs us that the sarnal mind is at odds with, it goes backwards from God, and to top it off it CANT be subject to the Law of God, or simply stated God. Nor can it be subject to Gods Gospel in Christ, and why do I say that ? Because of the word law. Its meaning is:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command


of any law whatsoever

a law or rule producing a state approved of God

by the observance of which is approved of God


a precept or injunction
the rule of action prescribed by reason


of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

Notice the word denotes a command. The Gospel Call is a command to be obeyed, thats why Paul said of it Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? This word obeyed means:

to obey, be obedient to, submit to

Paul is reiterating what he wrote back up in Rom 10:3


For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
What is the Righteousness of God they have not submitted themselves to ? Its the Gospel, wherein the Righteousness of God is revealed Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now many of the jews Paul preached to would not submit to this righteousness of God Pauls preached Gospel revealed.

The word submitted in Rom 10:3 is the greek word hypotassō:



to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject

And its the very same word Paul uses in Rpm 8:7 when he writes the carnal mind will not and cannot be subject to the Law of God.

So this is evidence that the carnal mind cannot obey the Gospel command to believe on the Name of the Son of God, for it is a Command 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

That word commandment means:

an injunction, order, command

Those words define exactly what the word law means as I showed earlier !
So if anyone preaches that the carnal mind, unregenerate man or women can believe the Gospel, they do lie and speak not the truth !

Nanja
October 14th, 2018, 03:30 PM
Rom 8:7 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Rom%208.7)

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

May I elaborate some here. This scripture informs us that the sarnal mind is at odds with, it goes backwards from God, and to top it off it CANT be subject to the Law of God, or simply stated God. Nor can it be subject to Gods Gospel in Christ, and why do I say that ? Because of the word law. Its meaning is:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command


of any law whatsoever

a law or rule producing a state approved of God

by the observance of which is approved of God


a precept or injunction
the rule of action prescribed by reason


of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

Notice the word denotes a command. The Gospel Call is a command to be obeyed, thats why Paul said of it Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? This word obeyed means:

to obey, be obedient to, submit to

Paul is reiterating what he wrote back up in Rom 10:3


For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
What is the Righteousness of God they have not submitted themselves to ? Its the Gospel, wherein the Righteousness of God is revealed Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now many of the jews Paul preached to would not submit to this righteousness of God Pauls preached Gospel revealed.

The word submitted in Rom 10:3 is the greek word hypotassō:



to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject

And its the very same word Paul uses in Rpm 8:7 when he writes the carnal mind will not and cannot be subject to the Law of God.

So this is evidence that the carnal mind cannot obey the Gospel command to believe on the Name of the Son of God, for it is a Command 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

That word commandment means:

an injunction, order, command

Those words define exactly what the word law means as I showed earlier !
So if anyone preaches that the carnal mind, unregenerate man or women can believe the Gospel, they do lie and speak not the truth !





Exactly correct Brother, and TY for further elaborating on Rom. 8:7 and the meaning of the word Law !