PDA

View Full Version : A Limited Atonement Eliminates the Gospel that Justifies the Ungodly



Robert Pate
June 21st, 2017, 02:25 PM
The foundation of the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ, is that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world. No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ, which is the Gospel.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and no ours only, but also FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" 1 John 4:14.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then there is no Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. This is what is really behind the demonic doctrine of Calvinism, to do away with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

A good part of Paul's writings is about justification by faith. There can be no justification if there is not a complete atonement for all sins. God never would have accepted Jesus back into heaven if he had not atoned for the sins of the whole world and we would all still be in our sins. Not only did Jesus atone for the sins of the whole world, he also abolished the law, Ephesians 2:15, and defeated the devil.

"And having spoiled principalities and powers (Satan) he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it" Colossians 2:15.

Jesus is Lord. If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus should be removed from his position at the right hand of God as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. The purpose of Calvinism is make Jesus a failure. Who can have faith in a Christ that has not atoned for the sins of the whole world?

"For I (Jesus) came not to judge the world, but to save the world" John 12:47.

We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. Jesus is our justifier, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, does for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus full fills all of the demands of God's Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. In our name and on our behalf Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before a holy God in the judgment as justified and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 02:51 PM
You have some of the correct terms, but you obviously have the meanings confused.

Robert Pate
June 21st, 2017, 04:22 PM
You have some of the correct terms, but you obviously have the meanings confused.

No confusion. If you are not justified by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you will perish.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 12:24 AM
No confusion. If you are not justified by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you will perish.

Last week you were stating that a man is justified by faith alone. Now you say a man is justified by the gospel.

Epoisses
June 22nd, 2017, 07:32 AM
Last week you were stating that a man is justified by faith alone. Now you say a man is justified by the gospel.

You have stated that a man is justified only by saying God's name exactly right! Come on, that's a pitfall that only junior nooblets fall into. I was expecting more but you constantly disappoint.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 07:43 AM
You have stated that a man is justified only by saying God's name exactly right! Come on, that's a pitfall that only junior nooblets fall into. I was expecting more but you constantly disappoint.

I have never said that. A man is justified by the trust of Messiah.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 08:02 AM
I have never said that. A man is justified by the trust of Messiah.

We are justified (made right with God) by the doing and the dying of Jesus, which is the Gospel.

This act of justification becomes ours by faith and gives us peace with God. Romans 5:1.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 08:24 AM
We are justified (made right with God) by the doing and the dying of Jesus, which is the Gospel.

This act of justification becomes ours by faith and gives us peace with God. Romans 5:1.

Justification takes place in eternity and there are three witnesses. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The trust necessary for justification is that of the Son in the promise of the Father.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 08:35 AM
Justification takes place in eternity and there are three witnesses. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The trust necessary for justification is that of the Son in the promise of the Father.

You don't know what the Gospel is. The Gospel is about how God justifies the ungodly by Jesus Christ, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

You need to read the Bible so that you will know how you are saved.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 08:37 AM
You don't know what the Gospel is. The Gospel is about how God justifies the ungodly by Jesus Christ, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

You need to read the Bible so that you will know how you are saved.

I was saved and then began to read and study the scriptures to find out why.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 08:45 AM
I was saved and then began to read and study the scriptures to find out why.

You were saved 2000 years ago when Jesus atoned for your sins and reconciled you to God.

The reason why, is because God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Salvation is a gift from God, Ephesians 2:8. You just accepted the free gift.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 08:53 AM
You were saved 2000 years ago when Jesus atoned for your sins and reconciled you to God.

The reason why, is because God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Salvation is a gift from God, Ephesians 2:8. You just accepted the free gift.

You were saved 2000 years ago when Jesus atoned for your sins and reconciled you to God.

Blatant stupidity and not true.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 09:04 AM
You were saved 2000 years ago when Jesus atoned for your sins and reconciled you to God.

Blatant stupidity and not true.


You cannot be saved without the Gospel. In the judgment if you are not found to be in Christ, you will perish.

patrick jane
June 22nd, 2017, 09:07 AM
You were saved 2000 years ago when Jesus atoned for your sins and reconciled you to God.

Blatant stupidity and not true.You weren't saved when the Lord Jesus Christ died for you 2000 years ago?

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 09:32 AM
You weren't saved when the Lord Jesus Christ died for you 2000 years ago?

You seem to be as confused as Pate. I was born above on July 17th 1999 at 10:30am.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 09:33 AM
You cannot be saved without the Gospel. In the judgment if you are not found to be in Christ, you will perish.

I have been and am being saved.

patrick jane
June 22nd, 2017, 09:34 AM
You seem to be as confused as Pate. I was born above on July 17th 1999 at 10:30am.You weren't saved before the foundation of the world as one of God's elect?

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 09:43 AM
You weren't saved before the foundation of the world as one of God's elect?

We* are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.

we* The elect.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 10:50 AM
We* are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.

we* The elect.


No way. We are chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. This is why salvation is by grace through faith. Nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Epoisses
June 22nd, 2017, 10:52 AM
I have been and am being saved.

Salvation is finished and complete in Christ. What we receive in this life is a finished product not one that goes on and on and on. When we are first converted our faith is weak and we trust in ourselves but as our faith grows stronger the finished nature of the atonement becomes clearer.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 11:36 AM
Salvation is finished and complete in Christ. What we receive in this life is a finished product not one that goes on and on and on. When we are first converted our faith is weak and we trust in ourselves but as our faith grows stronger the finished nature of the atonement becomes clearer.

You apply promises in which you have no rights. You can read the will, but you are not an heir.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 11:37 AM
No way. We are chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. This is why salvation is by grace through faith. Nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Your confusion runs in ever decreasing circles.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 11:59 AM
Your confusion runs in ever decreasing circles.

You have bought the devils lie that you can be saved without Christ and his work of salvation.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 12:16 PM
You have bought the devils lie that you can be saved without Christ and his work of salvation.

Dont you believe sinners Christ died for are still lost ?

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 12:17 PM
No way. We are chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. This is why salvation is by grace through faith. Nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Promoting Salvation by works, by what a person does !

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 01:11 PM
Promoting Salvation by works, by what a person does !

No response to Christ and his Gospel means no salvation.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 01:53 PM
No response to Christ and his Gospel means no salvation.
You teach that sinners Christ laid down His life for are still lost!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Bright Raven
June 22nd, 2017, 01:56 PM
You teach that sinners Christ laid down His life for are still lost!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Nope!

1 John 2:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 and He Himself is the [a]propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 01:58 PM
You teach that sinners Christ laid down His life for are still lost!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Unfortunately, you are one of them.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 02:37 PM
Unfortunately, you are one of them.
That's confirmation that you don't believe Christ death saves!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 04:12 PM
That's confirmation that you don't believe Christ death saves!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Doesn't save you, because you are to stupid to receive it as a gift from God. Romans 5:18.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 04:18 PM
Doesn't save you, because you are to stupid to receive it as a gift from God. Romans 5:18.
You continue to confirm that Christ death can't save sinners ! That's blasphemy

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Robert Pate
June 22nd, 2017, 04:34 PM
You continue to confirm that Christ death can't save sinners ! That's blasphemy

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Can't save Gospel rejecting Calvinist that insist on being predestinated, when salvation is plainly a gift from God. "The FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN" Romans 5:18.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2017, 05:15 PM
Can't save Gospel rejecting Calvinist that insist on being predestinated, when salvation is plainly a gift from God. "The FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN" Romans 5:18.
Still confirming that you don't believe that Christ death alone saved sinners He died for! Unbelief

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Nanja
June 22nd, 2017, 05:41 PM
You continue to confirm that Christ death can't save sinners ! That's blasphemy

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Absolutely!

Epoisses
June 22nd, 2017, 06:41 PM
You apply promises in which you have no rights. You can read the will, but you are not an heir.

If you have been converted for 18 years and still haven't figured these things out that is not a good sign. We are either growing in truth and knowledge or dying the slow death of unbelief.

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 02:50 AM
If you have been converted for 18 years and still haven't figured these things out that is not a good sign. We are either growing in truth and knowledge or dying the slow death of unbelief.

There is no "if" in my salvation.

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 07:03 AM
There is no "if" in my salvation.

Conversion is only the beginning Trustless. Then you need to grow into maturity by the power of the Holy Spirit. In the parable of the sower only the last group with a good and honest heart reached maturity. False prophets of organized religion take out most converts with their lies. God requires you to believe his word and reject their slick and polished fiction.

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 07:22 AM
Conversion is only the beginning Trustless. Then you need to grow into maturity by the power of the Holy Spirit. In the parable of the sower only the last group with a good and honest heart reached maturity. False prophets of organized religion take out most converts with their lies. God requires you to believe his word and reject their slick and polished fiction.

You are a proponent of salvation by works and as such you are a stranger to the grace of Elohim that bringeth salvation.

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 07:24 AM
You are a proponent of salvation by works and as such you are a stranger to the grace of Elohim that bringeth salvation.

Show the post where I have ever advocated Salvation by works. Put up or shut up!

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 07:40 AM
Show the post where I have ever advocated Salvation by works. Put up or shut up!

Try post 38 in this thread.

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 07:44 AM
Try post 38 in this thread.

Those were the exact words of Christ, Nooblet! I present faith or belief as a command from God and also as the gift of God. I present both sides of the equation which your narrow and limited mind could never comprehend because it has been stamped with the seal of false religion.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 07:51 AM
Those were the exact words of Christ, Nooblet! I present faith or belief as a command from God and also as the gift of God. I present both sides of the equation which your narrow and limited mind could never comprehend because it has been stamped with the seal of false religion.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

"I present" says it all. You present the confusion you have within. Elohim is not the author of confusion.

Robert Pate
June 23rd, 2017, 08:29 AM
You cannot reject the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and be saved.

You are a fraud.

beloved57
June 23rd, 2017, 09:39 AM
You cannot reject the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and be saved.

You are a fraud.

You reject it. You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost !

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 12:39 PM
"I present" says it all. You present the confusion you have within. Elohim is not the author of confusion.

Truster is kicking hard against the pricks now! They only get worse there buddy until you crack like a popsicle stick.

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 12:50 PM
Truster is kicking hard against the pricks now! They only get worse there buddy until you crack like a popsicle stick.


You oppose the truth, you are a man of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the trust. Your damnation is assured. 2 Timothy 3:8

Unless you are granted repentance.

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 12:54 PM
You oppose the truth, you are a man of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the trust. Your damnation is assured. 2 Timothy 3:8

Unless you are granted repentance.

Jesus led me to an understanding of the gospel within 10 years of being converted. The gospel gets revealed to you and after 18 years of being in the same ditch - not good!

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 02:21 PM
Jesus led me to an understanding of the gospel within 10 years of being converted. The gospel gets revealed to you and after 18 years of being in the same ditch - not good!

Within 10 years? hahahahahaaa.

That's not conversion that is a vague interest in some sort of religion.

Epoisses
June 23rd, 2017, 04:48 PM
Within 10 years? hahahahahaaa.

That's not conversion that is a vague interest in some sort of religion.

Truster trusts in something that happened 18 years ago but has no experience with Christ today. In spiritual terms Jesus gave you a shot at the big time and you blew it. Converted people get taken out all the time. A converted person will get tempted a hundred times worse than a non-converted person. You probably don't even believe in temptation because of your twisted beliefs.

Truster
June 23rd, 2017, 09:48 PM
We'll see...

Robert Pate
June 24th, 2017, 09:33 AM
Truster is like a small child that has just discovered his belly button. Introverted. Maybe some day he will come to believe the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ and get converted.