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Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 11:36 AM
If everything has been decided by God before the foundation of the world, then what need is there for a judgment? Why judge the lost again? Were they not judged to be lost by God before the foundation of the world according to Calvinism?

This is just one of the many problems associated with Calvinism. God is a God of judgment. The word judgment or judgments is found in the Bible over 430 times. God judges everything. If he didn't judge he would not be holy, just, merciful and righteous. All of the judgments that God makes are perfect and complete. The word "Judgment" in the Hebrew means, "A verdict (favorable or unfavorable) pronounced judicially, especially a sentence or formal decree (human or divine law, individual or collective) including the act, the place, the suit, the crime and the penalty". Nothing is going to escape God's judgment.

There will not be a judgment for those that are "In Christ" for sins, Romans 8:1. Their judgment has ALREADY taken place in Jesus Christ. They were put to death in Christ, Romans 6:6. Not only them, but the whole world was put to death in Jesus Christ, John 12:31, but only believers will escape the judgment. Those that are not in Christ will be judged according to God's Holy Law and condemned simply because "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The purpose of the judgment is to determine who is lost and who is saved. This will be determined in the judgment and not before the foundation of the world as Calvinist seem to believe. Paul said, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that which he has done, whether it be good or bad" 2 Corinthians 5:10. While it is true that there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. There may be the loss of rewards for sins done in the flesh, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15.

Everything will be revealed in the judgment. Paul wrote, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my Gospel" Romans 2:16. To be judged according to the Gospel is to be judged to see whether or not one believes the Gospel. All that believe the Gospel are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Those that don't believe the Gospel will be found in their sins and condemned.

Jesus said, "For there is nothing covered that shall not revealed; neither hid that shall not be made known. Therefore whatsoever you have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which you have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops" Luke 12:2,3. It is very apparent that the judgment is going to be a great thing. God is going to make all of the wrongs right and all of the rights will be rewarded. Unfortunately, those that say but "Lord, Lord, Didn't we..." Will hear those dreadful words, "Depart from me I never knew you" Matthew 7:21-23.

Robert Pate
June 17th, 2017, 10:57 AM
Calvinist don't want to challenge this article because they know that its true. Calvinism is an attempt to not only eliminate "God's great judgment day". They also try to eliminate the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

I don't know why they just don't write their own Bible like the Mormons did. That way they could eliminate the word "whosoever" and the word "world" these two words are very troublesome for them. If you are having trouble with God's word it could be that you are on the wrong train going in the wrong direction. The Bible, that I believe to be God's word, is very easy to understand, if you will read it with an open mind. But if you are trying to make the Bible fit your religion it won't make sense.

Nang
June 17th, 2017, 12:38 PM
Calvinist don't want to challenge this article because they know that its true. Calvinism is an attempt to not only eliminate "God's great judgment day". They also try to eliminate the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

I don't know why they just don't write their own Bible like the Mormons did. That way they could eliminate the word "whosoever" and the word "world" these two words are very troublesome for them. If you are having trouble with God's word it could be that you are on the wrong train going in the wrong direction. The Bible, that I believe to be God's word, is very easy to understand, if you will read it with an open mind. But if you are trying to make the Bible fit your religion it won't make sense.

Why would anyone challenge an article that has not been attributed?

And why do you continually project your own faults and sins upon others?

Robert Pate
June 17th, 2017, 02:37 PM
Why would anyone challenge an article that has not been attributed?

And why do you continually project your own faults and sins upon others?

Attributed to what?

The article is not about me and my faults and sins. The article is about how Calvinist, like yourself, destroy God's word with your phony, unbiblical doctrine.

Nick M
June 17th, 2017, 03:49 PM
The righteous will rejoice when we see the judgment.

Nanja
June 17th, 2017, 05:59 PM
If everything has been decided by God before the foundation of the world, then what need is there for a judgment?


The purpose of the Judgment is to reveal who are the Sons / Children of God Eph. 1:4-5 [Christ's Sheep] John 10:11,15, whom Christ gave His Life for VERSUS the condemned sons / children of the devil John 8:44; Mat. 13:38 [the goats]!

ALL FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!

Mat. 25:31-34; 41, 46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these [goats] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Sheep] into life eternal.

oatmeal
June 18th, 2017, 06:42 AM
Mr. Pate,

Great observation!

Robert Pate
June 18th, 2017, 01:29 PM
The purpose of the Judgment is to reveal who are the Sons / Children of God Eph. 1:4-5 [Christ's Sheep] John 10:11,15, whom Christ gave His Life for VERSUS the condemned sons / children of the devil John 8:44; Mat. 13:38 [the goats]!

ALL FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!

Mat. 25:31-34; 41, 46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these [goats] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Sheep] into life eternal.

HOGWASH!

According to the Calvinist doctrine everything was decided before the foundation of the world. This eliminates the need for a Gospel and the judgment.

Nanja
June 18th, 2017, 02:57 PM
HOGWASH!

According to the Calvinist doctrine everything was decided before the foundation of the world. This eliminates the need for a Gospel and the judgment.


Apparently you're in disbelief of those scriptures I posted, right?


Originally Posted by Nanja


The purpose of the Judgment is to reveal who are the Sons / Children of God Eph. 1:4-5 [Christ's Sheep] John 10:11,15, whom Christ gave His Life for VERSUS the condemned sons / children of the devil John 8:44; Mat. 13:38 [the goats]!

ALL FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!

Mat. 25:31-34; 41, 46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these [goats] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Sheep] into life eternal.

Robert Pate
June 18th, 2017, 08:36 PM
Apparently you're in disbelief of those scriptures I posted, right?


Originally Posted by Nanja

Because you reject the saving work of Christ that was done on your behalf, for your salvation. You will never see heaven.

Nanja
June 19th, 2017, 04:24 AM
Because you reject the saving work of Christ that was done on your behalf, for your salvation. You will never see heaven.

You don't believe that the Death of Christ saved all them He died for!

patrick jane
June 19th, 2017, 04:29 AM
You don't believe that the Death of Christ saved all them He died for!Because Christ didn't die for all mankind?

Robert Pate
June 19th, 2017, 07:45 AM
You don't believe that the Death of Christ saved all them He died for!


How many scriptures do you need that says Jesus died for the sins of the world? I only need one, 1 John 2:2. The God and savior that I believe in is able to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.

Nanja
June 19th, 2017, 09:55 AM
How many scriptures do you need that says Jesus died for the sins of the world? I only need one, 1 John 2:2. The God and savior that I believe in is able to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.


And you already have been shown numerous times that according to the scriptures, not all of humanity shall be saved from their sins, but sent to the second death to pay the price for their own sins.

Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So, for you to continue in you error of saying that Christ died for the sins of every person that ever lived in the world, you are guilty of blasphemy against the efficacy of Christ's Blood to save all those it was shed for!

Robert Pate
June 19th, 2017, 01:05 PM
And you already have been shown numerous times that according to the scriptures, not all of humanity shall be saved from their sins, but sent to the second death to pay the price for their own sins.

Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So, for you to continue in you error of saying that Christ died for the sins of every person that ever lived in the world, you are guilty of blasphemy against the efficacy of Christ's Blood to save all those it was shed for!


To say that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world is to profess that Jesus is not Lord.

"I said therefore unto you, THAT YOU SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: for if you believe not that I am he: YOU SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS" John 8:24.

No one will be saved if they do not believe that Jesus is Lord.

Nanja
June 19th, 2017, 02:27 PM
No one will be saved if they do not believe that Jesus is Lord.


But Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:9.

So the only Belief / Faith that is evidence of Salvation, is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8 to all God's Elect [Sheep]. Hence, the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1.

But the faith or believing a carnal / natural man does is a work of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8; 1 Cor. 2:14.

ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1


John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Christ gave His Life for His Sheep John 10:11, 15.

But the goats are cursed and shall go in to the second death Mat. 25:41.


Originally Posted by Nanja

The purpose of the Judgment is to reveal who are the Sons / Children of God Eph. 1:4-5 [Christ's Sheep] John 10:11,15, whom Christ gave His Life for VERSUS the condemned sons / children of the devil John 8:44; Mat. 13:38 [the goats]!

ALL FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!

Mat. 25:31-34; 41, 46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these [goats] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Sheep] into life eternal.

Charles94
June 19th, 2017, 08:36 PM
The God and savior that I believe in is able to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.

Your pants are all on fire, sport:

Heb7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

John:17:9,20 I pray for them. I DO NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word...

"Salvation to the uttermost" is not for the "world" as Jesus refuses to intercede for the "world."

Epoisses
June 19th, 2017, 08:42 PM
Your pants are all on fire, sport:

Heb7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

John:17:9,20 “I pray for them. I DO NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word...

"Salvation to the uttermost" is not for the "world" as Jesus refuses to intercede for the "world."

John's use of the world in that context is the evil of the world, just like here:

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1John 2:15-17

Moron!

Robert Pate
June 20th, 2017, 07:40 AM
Your pants are all on fire, sport:

Heb7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

John:17:9,20 “I pray for them. I DO NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word...

"Salvation to the uttermost" is not for the "world" as Jesus refuses to intercede for the "world."

If that were true, which it is not, then Jesus is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord over sin, death and the devil, then we are all still in our sins and without hope. The foundation of the Gospel is that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, just like the scripture says, 1 John 2:2.

Charles94
June 24th, 2017, 09:06 PM
John's use of the world in that context is the evil of the world...Moron!

The context is that Jesus IS interceding for current believers such as those 11 specific individuals right there with Him and that He IS interceding for future individual believers as well. "World/Kosmos" can mean a number of different things, but to suggest that He is contrasting praying for individuals who believe in space and time with systemic evil is completely random. Logically, He is refusing to pray for the remaining subset of individual humans who do not and will never come to belief in space and time. And since He does not make intercession for that subset of individual humans, Heb7 is certainly not talking about Him saving THEM to the uttermost.

The point of Heb7 is that Jesus is the Great High Priest who is also the Sacrifice for His people. He makes intercession for them specifically on the basis of His sacrifice for them specifically.

Heb7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost THOSE WHO COME TO GOD THROUGH HIM, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

To interpret Heb7:25 as if it applied to every specific person in the world is to deny the context, which is clearly speaking of believers and only believers.

(The name calling is amusing, though. You are obviously deeply insecure. But with arguments that illogical and inconsistent, you'd have to be.)

Robert Pate
June 25th, 2017, 01:21 PM
To NOT believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To believe that Jesus is not Lord is to die in your sins, John 8:24.

Epoisses
June 25th, 2017, 04:24 PM
The context is that Jesus IS interceding for current believers such as those 11 specific individuals right there with Him and that He IS interceding for future individual believers as well. "World/Kosmos" can mean a number of different things, but to suggest that He is contrasting praying for individuals who believe in space and time with systemic evil is completely random. Logically, He is refusing to pray for the remaining subset of individual humans who do not and will never come to belief in space and time. And since He does not make intercession for that subset of individual humans, Heb7 is certainly not talking about Him saving THEM to the uttermost.

The point of Heb7 is that Jesus is the Great High Priest who is also the Sacrifice for His people. He makes intercession for them specifically on the basis of His sacrifice for them specifically.

Heb7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost THOSE WHO COME TO GOD THROUGH HIM, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

To interpret Heb7:25 as if it applied to every specific person in the world is to deny the context, which is clearly speaking of believers and only believers.

(The name calling is amusing, though. You are obviously deeply insecure. But with arguments that illogical and inconsistent, you'd have to be.)

The word world is used two ways in the writings of John. It either means the evil of the world or the world in it's entirety. Never ever not even one single time is it ever used to mean the elect only. This is wholly an invention of Calvinists to prop up their polluted understanding of scripture to fit their false paradigm that doesn't exist. If they were truly sheep of Christ they could admit this and submit to the truth of scripture but of course this never happens.

Robert Pate
July 2nd, 2017, 10:23 AM
The word world is used two ways in the writings of John. It either means the evil of the world or the world in it's entirety. Never ever not even one single time is it ever used to mean the elect only. This is wholly an invention of Calvinists to prop up their polluted understanding of scripture to fit their false paradigm that doesn't exist. If they were truly sheep of Christ they could admit this and submit to the truth of scripture but of course this never happens.


Right.

The scripture that Calvinist hate the most is John 3:16.

"God so loves the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER (meaning all, anyone, everyone, the world) that believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".