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oatmeal
June 14th, 2017, 06:03 AM
In reply to a post on another thread, it became evident that it was high time that the difference between receiving the gift of salvation and doing something with it so as to actually see the immediate benefits of using that gift. The difference needs to be expounded. This post is a primer to a lifetime of learning.

Most certainly, receiving salvation is the first step in living a godly life well pleasing and worthy of God.

I Timothy 2:4 makes that clear as can be.

God's will is

1. that all men be saved.

2. that they come to the knowledge of the truth.

The word for knowledge in I Timothy 2:4 is not referring to simply being mentally aware of something but knowledge gained by experiencing something, in this case, the truth. (See John 8:32 for another similar use, it is not simply being aware of truth that sets men free, it is experiencing truth by living it, that sets men free.)

Coming to the knowledge of truth by experiencing it takes work.

It may take hard work to enjoy the immediate and presently available benefits our salvation.

Owning a bicycle and learning to ride it to receive the benefits of ownership are two vastly different activities. Our minds and bodies must be trained to learn the skills that it takes to ride a bicycle safely and efficaciously.

Having received the gift of salvation we must experience what salvation is to really know what it is. That takes work and action on our part and the learning of new skills. Like for instance, becoming spiritually minded instead of remaining carnally minded. see Romans 8

Receiving salvation is simply the first step in living the gift of eternal life/salvation/holy spirit. Romans 6:23

We must also know what this gift contains and what we are to do with it as God would have us use it.

As a bonus, we should consider that having a gift and using it are both involved in salvation, or wholeness.

To be saved means to be made whole.

We have all received gifts in our lifetime, it is only when we use those gifts that we truly benefit in the present in having those gifts.

Let me illustrate, just because we have a God given brain, does not mean we will wisely fill it and use it. Part of benefiting from having a brain is in its active use. Our brains actually develop as we fill it with knowledge and use it. It can physically and mentally develop towards evil or toward good depending how we choose to use it.

Likewise our bodies, we can abuse our bodies for evil or use our bodies for good. Romans 12:1

Salvation is received but it is also developed and strengthened if we use it according to God's word.

As we renew our minds to God's word, that is when we choose to think what God wants us to think, see Philippians 4:8;2:5, Romans 12:2..., our salvation becomes stronger in us in that it permeates our walk with God, ie, our lifestyle to live God's way, not the way of the world.

Once having received salvation, we can stay inert and stagnate or choose to dynamically involve ourselves in using God's gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit.

By choosing to live our salvation by renewing our minds, we receive more benefits of that salvation. We have the basic package but how we use it determines how much salvation is evidenced in our lives. In sense, we actually grow in salvation as we use it. Thus until Jesus Christ returns, I John 3:1-3, we can continue to appropriate more and more of the benefits of that salvation, a process that is unlimited for we will always have ways to improve.

This is where verses like Philippians 2:12 come in. We are to "work out" our salvation. We have it, but it lies dormant until we renew our minds and start working it, much like going to the gym to "work out" we become more healthy and whole as we "work out" our salvation just like working out doing physical exercise increases our health and vitality

oatmeal
June 14th, 2017, 06:14 AM
When we read the following passage with the above post in mind, we find that James is not focused the receiving of the gift of salvation, but on the godly use of that gift of salvation

James is written to people who have received the gift of salvation. This is shown by the use of brethren, the reference to "every good and perfect gift is from above" James 1:17 , by reference to "have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ... with respect of persons" James is telling them to use the faith of Jesus Christ rightly. They can use it rightly or wrongly because they already have it. James is telling them to use it rightly.

The following passage is clearer if the word believe is used instead of the word faith, for God gave to us the faith of Jesus Christ, the measure of faith, our response is to believe God's word to make use of it rightly.

James 2:14-26


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


By seeing a person's works, you can tell what they are believing. Without seeing the works, where is the believing?

As you or I work to hold forth the words of life, Philippians 2:15-16, it is clear that you and I am believing that it is our God given responsibility to do so.

Truster
June 14th, 2017, 06:14 AM
Blind guide.

oatmeal
June 14th, 2017, 06:19 AM
Blind guide.

You might want to review the section about the renewing of the mind.

The subject of the renewing of the mind seems to be lost on many a Christian.

But they are not to blame, if their teachers and preachers have not instructed them.

Above you have a brief intro to that subject.

If you have further questions on the subject, if you hunger and thirst for righteousness, God guarantees you shall be filled, but you shall be filled only according to your hunger.

Questions are useful, if you choose to ask, I intend to reply

Truster
June 14th, 2017, 06:22 AM
The goats will enjoy your confused mess, but the Lambs will be led into green pastures.

popsthebuilder
June 14th, 2017, 06:58 AM
Pay know mind to the proud and prejudiced;

The Lord GOD knows your works and heart friend, as do others.

May GOD continually guide you, and me, and all who do seek out that Holy will.

peace friend.

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Truster
June 14th, 2017, 07:15 AM
Pay know mind to the proud and prejudiced;

The Lord GOD knows your works and heart friend, as do others.

May GOD continually guide you, and me, and all who do seek out that Holy will.

peace friend.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

Along came a goat to prove the point...

oatmeal
June 14th, 2017, 09:21 AM
The goats will enjoy your confused mess, but the Lambs will be led into green pastures.

Thought you might enjoy the following partial list:

Exodus 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Leviticus 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

Leviticus 9:3 And unto the children of Israel thou shalt speak, saying, Take ye a kid of the goats for a sin offering; and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, for a burnt offering;

Leviticus 17:3 What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,

Leviticus 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

Numbers 7:17 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Nahshon the son of Amminadab.

Numbers 7:23 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Nethaneel the son of Zuar.

Numbers 7:29 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Eliab the son of Helon.

Numbers 7:35 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Elizur the son of Shedeur.

Numbers 7:41 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai.

Numbers 7:47 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Eliasaph the son of Deuel.

Numbers 7:53 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Elishama the son of Ammihud.

Numbers 7:59 And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur.

Truster
June 14th, 2017, 09:58 AM
You can't be serious. Don't you understand the difference between goats in the flesh and goats symbolically?

oatmeal
June 14th, 2017, 10:05 AM
You can't be serious. Don't you understand the difference between goats in the flesh and goats symbolically?

I do not what you symbolize them as, but looking at Exodus 12:5 it is clear that goats are equivalent to lambs regarding the animal to be used in the first Passover.

That is what that scripture shows us.

oatmeal
June 15th, 2017, 04:41 AM
Ephesians 4:15

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

We are to grow up into him.

There is a maturation process we are to engage ourselves in in order to fully develop ourselves as sons of God.

This maturation process involves the leadership and rulership of the God ordained leaders and rulers in the church.

Romans 13:1-8

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.



These higher powers in the church are referred to in

Ephesians 4:8,11-14

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Even as the first century church needed the ministries of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for leadership, so do we also need that leadership.



Going to a scripture based Bible college might educate, but the ministries in the church are chosen by God.

I Corinthians 12:18

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

When we become humble and meek to learn then will be begin to have the wherewithal to begin to grow up into him in all things

popsthebuilder
June 15th, 2017, 06:30 AM
Along came a goat to prove the point...
I am not stubborn, nor do I devour all that I see. I am not carnally minded, and was rather enjoying you not speaking about, or to me.

There you go trying to divide the wheat from the tare again....



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Truster
June 15th, 2017, 06:34 AM
I am not stubborn, nor do I devour all that I see. I am not carnally minded, and was rather enjoying you not speaking about, or to me.

There you go trying to divide the wheat from the tare again....



Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

It's not wheat from tares. It's sheep from goats. It's precious from the vile and in doing so I fulfill a duty.

Epoisses
June 15th, 2017, 06:53 AM
It's not wheat from tares. It's sheep from goats. It's precious from the vile and in doing so I fulfill a duty.

You judge the motives and intents of others hearts and sin against Christ. Good job, fish and chips Wally!

popsthebuilder
June 15th, 2017, 07:09 AM
It's not wheat from tares. It's sheep from goats. It's precious from the vile and in doing so I fulfill a duty.
So you make a division between the wheats and tares and another between the sheep and goats?

To me tare/ goat are the same; unbeliever.

And wheat/ sheep are the same; faithful believer.

What other distinctions do you make, and how do you see it as your duty to judge between them?

Thanks,

peace

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Truster
June 15th, 2017, 07:18 AM
So you make a division between the wheats and tares and another between the sheep and goats?

To me tare/ goat are the same; unbeliever.

And wheat/ sheep are the same; faithful believer.

What other distinctions do you make, and how do you see it as your duty to judge between them?

Thanks,

peace

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They are different and mean different things.

popsthebuilder
June 15th, 2017, 07:31 AM
They are different and mean different things.
Would you please show the difference you are speaking of with scriptural reference please, that I might learn?

peace

No setup, no trap, just curious where you are coming from.

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patrick jane
June 15th, 2017, 07:32 AM
They are different and mean different things.
Not the response of a saint

Truster
June 15th, 2017, 07:33 AM
Not the response of a saint

Everything I think, say and do is the response of a saint.

To the praise of the glory of His grace.

jamie
June 15th, 2017, 09:16 AM
Everything I think, say and do is the response of a saint.


"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." (Paul)

Truster
June 15th, 2017, 09:57 AM
"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." (Paul)

I can only fall in grace and if I do it is in the will of the Father.

oatmeal
June 15th, 2017, 06:52 PM
So what is the best part of scripture who is a child of God to start reading and understanding?

The church epistles, Romans through Thessalonians.

Why?

Because that is where God had the apostle Paul expound on what God has done for us in Christ and our reasonable response in kind.

Ie, since Jesus died for us to pay for our sins, we should quit sinning.

oatmeal
June 16th, 2017, 04:27 AM
One example of quitting sinning is given in Ephesians 4:28

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

If you were stealing, steal no more, not only completely quit stealing but work that which is good so that you can give to another who is in need.

That is turning your life around!

Romans 1-11 gives us information on what God has done for us.

Romans 12-16 gives us practical instruction on what God wants us to do for him and others.

For instance, Romans 5:1 tell us we have been justified and have peace with God.

God did that for us by the obedience of His son.

Romans 12:9 tells us to love without hypocrisy, abhorring evil and cleaving to the good.

That are actions we can decide to do

It does not say pray about, it does not say wait for God to do it for you, it says "do it"

oatmeal
June 17th, 2017, 08:06 AM
Another truth we can learn to incorporate into our lives is Romans 12:10 in regards to our relationships with other believers.

After all, Jesus Christ did not sacrifice his life any more or any less for one person or another.

He died for all, those who believe have received salvation and redemption as much as the next believer.

Romans 12:11 tells us we should get busy and stay busy spiritually fervent in serving the Lord.

If we are hating our brothers and sisters in Christ are we doing what Romans 12:11 instructs?

If we cannot be kind one to another where is this love for our brethren that distinguishes us from the world?

oatmeal
June 18th, 2017, 07:04 AM
Ephesians 3:4 KJV tells us that when we read (scripture) we may understand Paul's knowledge of the mystery of Christ.

Is that a prerequisite for salvation? Nope.

Learning what that mystery is, the great mystery, tells us what we were saved to, and what is available to us as saved ones.

oatmeal
June 18th, 2017, 07:06 AM
I can only fall in grace and if I do it is in the will of the Father.

Fear not!

God is able to keep you from falling. Jude 24

However, you must choose to believe that promise for you to receive that promise.

Believe and you shall receive.

Mark 9:23, etc....

If you can believe.....

Can you believe?

Yes you can if you choose to.

Truster
June 18th, 2017, 07:08 AM
Fear not!

God is able to keep you from falling. Jude 24

However, you must choose to believe that promise for you to receive that promise.

Believe and you shall receive.

Mark 9:23, etc....

If you can believe.....

Can you believe?

Yes you can if you choose to.

Try Romans 7 I know you won't understand it, but...

oatmeal
June 18th, 2017, 08:11 AM
Try Romans 7 I know you won't understand it, but...

Thank you!

Paul did not always achieve his goals, he found out that his flesh got in the way of achieving them even as Jesus Christ stated, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak

However, that does not negate our responsibility to believe God's words to the end we live them not as second nature, but first nature.

Truster
June 18th, 2017, 09:49 AM
Thank you!

Paul did not always achieve his goals, he found out that his flesh got in the way of achieving them even as Jesus Christ stated, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak

However, that does not negate our responsibility to believe God's words to the end we live them not as second nature, but first nature.

I don't have a responsibility or duty to "believe" the word of Elohim. I trust Him and His word, unto myself and all the saints, implicitly. This is a spiritual endowment that you couldn't possibly comprehend. Whatever you do is a responsibility or duty, for us* it is as natural as breathing.

You have a speculative notion of Messiah, and a barren notion of grace.


us* The redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

patrick jane
June 18th, 2017, 09:59 AM
This is a spiritual endowment that you couldn't possibly comprehend. Whatever you do is a responsibility or duty, for us* it is as natural as breathing.

There's Bluster, tooting his own horn, bragging and boasting, condemning all of TOL

Truster
June 18th, 2017, 10:10 AM
There's Bluster, tooting his own horn, bragging and boasting, condemning all of TOL

As usual I am tooting the horn of the author and sustainer of my salvation and His truth. As usual you have a problem with the grace I have been allotted. You are most certainly of the line of Cain and the more certain you become that the sacrifices you present are unacceptable the more anger you display.

oatmeal
June 18th, 2017, 11:21 AM
I don't have a responsibility or duty to "believe" the word of Elohim. I trust Him and His word, unto myself and all the saints, implicitly. This is a spiritual endowment that you couldn't possibly comprehend. Whatever you do is a responsibility or duty, for us* it is as natural as breathing.

You have a speculative notion of Messiah, and a barren notion of grace.


us* The redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

So you are not a believer.

Well that explains a lot.

You have not then done Romans 10:9 especially the second half, "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead"

You, finding it not necessary to believe, have not believed that God raised Jesus from the dead. If you have not believed that God raised the lord Jesus from the dead, then you are not saved.

Have a few verses here:


Acts 2:44
And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Acts 4:4
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

But you don't need to believe?

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 14:1
And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Acts 14:23
And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Acts 15:7

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


Acts 17:5

But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.


Acts 27:25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.

Acts 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

That is a brief sample of learning about believing God, that it is absolutely necessary.

glorydaz
June 18th, 2017, 01:14 PM
The goats will enjoy your confused mess, but the Lambs will be led into green pastures.

Bluster can't stand the competition. He thinks his OP's are the best thing since Mom's Apple Pie and no other can even come close.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

glorydaz
June 18th, 2017, 01:26 PM
As usual you have a problem with the grace I have been allotted.

God's Grace, the shed blood, has been "allotted" to all men as a Gift....we access that grace through faith. No one has a problem with you having some special allotment...there is no such thing.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Nang
June 18th, 2017, 01:32 PM
God's Grace, the shed blood, has been "allotted" to all men as a Gift....we access that grace through faith. No one has a problem with you having some special allotment...there is no such thing.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Yes, "APPEARED" on earth in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died only for the Elect the Father gave Him to redeem.

"Appeared" does not mean "anointed" or "gifted" or "alotted."

If Christ did not die for any particular soul, that soul is left in their sins and knows no grace.

His atonement was not universal, and neither is His grace bestowed universally.

Truster
June 18th, 2017, 03:32 PM
So you are not a believer.

Well that explains a lot.

You have not then done Romans 10:9 especially the second half, "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead"

You, finding it not necessary to believe, have not believed that God raised Jesus from the dead. If you have not believed that God raised the lord Jesus from the dead, then you are not saved.

Have a few verses here:


Acts 2:44
And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Acts 4:4
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

But you don't need to believe?

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 14:1
And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Acts 14:23
And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Acts 15:7

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


Acts 17:5

But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.


Acts 27:25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.

Acts 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

That is a brief sample of learning about believing God, that it is absolutely necessary.


You use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

glorydaz
June 18th, 2017, 05:54 PM
Yes, "APPEARED" on earth in the Person of Jesus Christ, who died only for the Elect the Father gave Him to redeem.

"Appeared" does not mean "anointed" or "gifted" or "alotted."

If Christ did not die for any particular soul, that soul is left in their sins and knows no grace.

His atonement was not universal, and neither is His grace bestowed universally.

On the contrary, the blood was shed for the sins of the world.....which reconciled all men to God (when we were sinners).

We are saved (given life) when we access that grace through faith.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Nang
June 18th, 2017, 06:35 PM
On the contrary, the blood was shed for the sins of the world.....which reconciled all men to God (when we were sinners).

We are saved (given life) when we access that grace through faith.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"We" is not the world at large, as even empirical evidence proves. And there is no "we" who chooses to willfully access grace.

You parrot the false Pelagian (Arminian) gospel of free-will, works-righteousness, which is not salvation according to God's grace, at all.

glorydaz
June 18th, 2017, 07:02 PM
"We" is not the world at large, as even empirical evidence proves. And there is no "we" who chooses to willfully access grace.

You parrot the false Pelagian (Arminian) gospel of free-will, works-righteousness, which is not salvation according to God's grace, at all.

I'm just quoting the Scripture, Nang. I realize you like to make up your own.

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:33 AM
You use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

Truster,

Thanks for offering an opinion.

It is clear from scripture that believing God does not stop with receiving the gift of salvation.

I Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

and

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God's workmanship, and as His workmanship, God says we should walk in the works which God foreordained for each believer.

We should, it is not up to God, it is up to us.

We should, but will we?

It is not up to God to force us to, it is up to us to decide to walk in those works.

Will we walk in those works?

Maybe we can't yet envision that yet.

Yet we can decide that we want to, even though we may not yet know how to.

As we learn to come to the knowledge of the truth, we will learn step by step, a little here and a little there, line by line, precept by precept, what God expects of us, and how to do it.

Most certainly, there will be challenges for us to overcome, but God's word teaches us how to overcome the world, the opposition to our believing and be victorious for God

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 04:37 AM
Truster,

Thanks for offering an opinion.

It is clear from scripture that believing God does not stop with receiving the gift of salvation.

I Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

and

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God's workmanship, and as His workmanship, God says we should walk in the works which God foreordained for each believer.

We should, it is not up to God, it is up to us.

We should, but will we?

It is not up to God to force us to, it is up to us to decide to walk in those works.

Will we walk in those works?

Maybe we can't yet envision that yet.

Yet we can decide that we want to, even though we may not yet know how to.

As we learn to come to the knowledge of the truth, we will learn step by step, a little here and a little there, line by line, precept by precept, what God expects of us, and how to do it.

Most certainly, there will be challenges for us to overcome, but God's word teaches us how to overcome the world, the opposition to our believing and be victorious for God

I REPEAT:

You use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:43 AM
Having received the gift of salvation, like any gift, we must learn to use is per the instructions if we are to receive any, let alone, the full benefits of it in the here and now.

Since that gift of salvation is also referred to in other terms, it is helpful and instructive to find out how else God refers to the gift of salvation.

Gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23

Being born again of incorruptible seed, by the word of God which lives and abides forever. I Peter 1:23

The gift of holy spirit from the Holy Spirit. I John 4:13, Acts 2:38

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 04:46 AM
Having received the gift of salvation, like any gift, we must learn to use is per the instructions if we are to receive any, let alone, the full benefits of it.

Since that gift of salvation is also referred to in other terms, it is helpful and instructive to find out how else God refers to the gift of salvation.

Gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23

Being born again of incorruptible seed, by the word of God which lives and abides forever. I Peter 1:23

The gift of holy spirit from the Holy Spirit. I John 4:13, Acts 2:38

Salvation by works.

popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 05:33 AM
Salvation by works.
Show your sacrificial faith without your evil works and I'll show you actual faith through good works.

All is work unless you literally do nothing.

You running around calling everyone stupid is a work.... You should study scripture and see what sort of working is, and what will be recompensed for such acts.



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Truster
June 21st, 2017, 05:43 AM
Show your sacrificial faith without your evil works and I'll show you actual faith through good works.

All is work unless you literally do nothing.

You running around calling everyone stupid is a work.... You should study scripture and see what sort of working is, and what will be recompensed for such acts.



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The TOL statement of faith says, "Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent."

I rebuke and judge, deal with it.

popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 06:09 AM
The TOL statement of faith says, "Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent."

I rebuke and judge, deal with it.
No; you attempt to condemn all to hell for things they cannot change according to you. All your judgements are evil that I have witnessed, and did you really say the tol sof or creed? As if that holds any bearing on one's faith or the direction of one's life. You can pander to the faith alone crown and whoever else you want. It changes nothing. Nearly all here see you for what you are due to your own evil works and regardless of your attempted confusion and misdirection.



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marhig
June 21st, 2017, 06:21 AM
The TOL statement of faith says, "Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent."

I rebuke and judge, deal with it.
And Jesus said

Matthew 7

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Take the beam out of your own eye truster, because you're so self righteous and proud and you foolishly condemn everyone else and see yourself perfect.

You are far from perfect! And the righteous judgment is to speak the word of God and bare witness to the truth, and God will judge. Not twist the word to suit yourself as you do.

Anyone who calls others evil and wicked for obeying God and living by his will is a false witness.

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 08:55 AM
No; you attempt to condemn all to hell for things they cannot change according to you. All your judgements are evil that I have witnessed, and did you really say the tol sof or creed? As if that holds any bearing on one's faith or the direction of one's life. You can pander to the faith alone crown and whoever else you want. It changes nothing. Nearly all here see you for what you are due to your own evil works and regardless of your attempted confusion and misdirection.



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Nothing is according to me, but all is according to scripture and thence from the revealed will of the Eternal Almighty.

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 08:57 AM
And Jesus said

Matthew 7

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Take the beam out of your own eye truster, because you're so self righteous and proud and you foolishly condemn everyone else and see yourself perfect.

You are far from perfect! And the righteous judgment is to speak the word of God and bare witness to the truth, and God will judge. Not twist the word to suit yourself as you do.

Anyone who calls others evil and wicked for obeying God and living by his will is a false witness.

Are you not bright enough to comprehend who it was Messiah was addressing with those words. Don't bother answering, because you are obviously in the dark.

popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 09:02 AM
Nothing is according to me, but all is according to scripture and thence from the revealed will of the Eternal Almighty.
That would be your case if you didn't twist, contort, and omit pertinent scripture in attempts to promote your own agenda all while constantly ceaselessly insisting stupidity and damnation on the part of whomever may choose to converse with you.



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popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 09:03 AM
Are you not bright enough to comprehend who it was Messiah was addressing with those words. Don't bother answering, because you are obviously in the dark.
See?

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Truster
June 21st, 2017, 09:22 AM
That would be your case if you didn't twist, contort, and omit pertinent scripture in attempts to promote your own agenda all while constantly ceaselessly insisting stupidity and damnation on the part of whomever may choose to converse with you.



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I have only one agenda and He who knows my heart* placed the agenda there.

heart* not the blood pump

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 09:22 AM
See?

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Yes I can see, clearly.

patrick jane
June 21st, 2017, 10:30 AM
That would be your case if you didn't twist, contort, and omit pertinent scripture in attempts to promote your own agenda all while constantly ceaselessly insisting stupidity and damnation on the part of whomever may choose to converse with you.



Sent from my Z983 using TapatalkBluster also frequently changes words to scripture because he studied the "real meaning" and his words are better than God's

popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 10:32 AM
I have only one agenda and He who knows my heart* placed the agenda there.

heart* not the blood pump
Feed your lies to the gullible and hungry. You know your own heart; that it is full of spite and contention and envying.

The love of GOD is seemingly far from you based on your works which are your words in this case, on this forum.

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Truster
June 21st, 2017, 11:22 AM
Bluster also frequently changes words to scripture because he studied the "real meaning" and his words are better than God's

The scriptures as originally given are inherent. Translations are not. Live with it.

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 11:23 AM
Feed your lies to the gullible and hungry. You know your own heart; that it is full of spite and contention and envying.

The love of GOD is seemingly far from you based on your works which are your words in this case, on this forum.

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You cannot feed on truth and so you can't enjoy the freedom that truth brings.

popsthebuilder
June 21st, 2017, 11:27 AM
You cannot feed on truth and so you can't enjoy the freedom that truth brings.
No; there is no room for your force fed lies after being filled and flowing over.



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patrick jane
June 21st, 2017, 11:29 AM
You cannot feed on truth and so you can't enjoy the freedom that truth brings.You don't have fun and you can't enjoy the peace of mind that comes from salvation.

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 11:32 AM
You don't have fun and you can't enjoy the peace of mind that comes from salvation.

"Peace of mind" hahahahahaha....you really do crack me up. Is that all you know about peace?

patrick jane
June 21st, 2017, 11:33 AM
"Peace of mind" hahahahahaha....you really do crack me up. Is that all you know about peace?Yeah Bluster, nobody knows but you

Truster
June 21st, 2017, 11:42 AM
Yeah Bluster, nobody knows but you

I know the peace of Elohim that surpasses all understanding. I do so only by grace and have nothing in which to boast. You seem to rejoice in your blind stupidity and I take it that is your "free-will" decision? Rhetorical?

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:02 PM
Never mind

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:11 PM
Paul exhorted Tim to lay hold on eternal life. Tim has eternal life. Paul was telling him to live accordingly. When you know you have eternal life, 1 John 5:13, you can take on a whole new perspective of how you can live your life to please God!

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:47 PM
I REPEAT:

You use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

Thanks again for offering your opinion.

Do you have any scripture to support your opinion?

No doubt you would have listed then if you had.

Well that's ok.

You can learn from the scripture I post

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 04:49 PM
Salvation by works.

Truster!

What?

Again no scripture?

Well, that's ok, as I stated before, you can learn from the scriptures I posted

oatmeal
June 21st, 2017, 05:01 PM
Show your sacrificial faith without your evil works and I'll show you actual faith through good works.

All is work unless you literally do nothing.

You running around calling everyone stupid is a work.... You should study scripture and see what sort of working is, and what will be recompensed for such acts.



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You bring up a very good perspective that is worth delving into further.

I Thessalonians 1:3 comes to mind immediately

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Reading the opening we learn that the recipients of this epistle are the church in God the Father and in the lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 1:1

We learn in I Thessalonians 1:4 that Paul is writing to brethren, beloved, and Paul knows of their election of God.

Paul is clearly writing to those who have received the gift of salvation.

As you point out, salvation does not mean laziness, it means we do do something with that salvation.

What did the church in Thes do? Paul was thankful for their work of faith and labor of love.

They were busy doing something with their salvation!

Jacob
June 21st, 2017, 06:45 PM
Shalom.

After receiving salvation you ought to grow in your faith.

Shalom.

Jacob

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 12:07 AM
Truster!

What?

Again no scripture?

Well, that's ok, as I stated before, you can learn from the scriptures I posted

2 Timothy 4:3

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 12:12 AM
Truster!

What?

Again no scripture?

Well, that's ok, as I stated before, you can learn from the scriptures I posted

You think that once you have given your heart to Jesus (works) you must then do more works to ensure salvation is completed.(works)

As opposed to salvation is by grace and through trust from beginning to end.

Nihilo
June 22nd, 2017, 12:22 AM
You bring up a very good perspective that is worth delving into further.

I Thessalonians 1:3 comes to mind immediately

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Reading the opening we learn that the recipients of this epistle are the church in God the Father and in the lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 1:1

We learn in I Thessalonians 1:4 that Paul is writing to brethren, beloved, and Paul knows of their election of God.

Paul is clearly writing to those who have received the gift of salvation.

As you point out, salvation does not mean laziness, it means we do do something with that salvation.

What did the church in Thes do? Paul was thankful for their work of faith and labor of love.

They were busy doing something with their salvation!They were busy doing something with their faith in the Resurrection. It's pretty easy to do. And fun.

And shut up, Truster. Bible correcter.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 01:19 AM
Paul exhorted Tim to lay hold on eternal life. Tim has eternal life. Paul was telling him to live accordingly. When you know you have eternal life, 1 John 5:13, you can take on a whole new perspective of how you can live your life to please God!

Paul was exhorting Timothy to "take hold of eternal life" as opposed to taking hold of temporal existence and everything that entails. To lay hold of the things pertaining to the eternal kingdom instead of the things of the world and time.

There are at least 10 scriptures in my post, but you probably won't see them.

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 04:20 AM
Paul was exhorting Timothy to "take hold of eternal life" as opposed to taking hold of temporal existence and everything that entails. To lay hold of the things pertaining to the eternal kingdom instead of the things of the world and time.

There are at least 10 scriptures in my post, but you probably won't see them.

Yes, that is what I said.

well, saying that there are and showing them are two different things.

Luke 4:17-19

And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


Nehemiah 8:8

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Why should I believe your source is scripture if you do not provide any?

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 04:28 AM
They were busy doing something with their faith in the Resurrection. It's pretty easy to do. And fun.

And shut up, Truster. Bible correcter.

Indeed, they were being "not slothful in business, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord" Romans 12:11

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 04:29 AM
Shalom.

After receiving salvation you ought to grow in your faith.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes, that is right

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 04:40 AM
You think that once you have given your heart to Jesus (works) you must then do more works to ensure salvation is completed.(works)

As opposed to salvation is by grace and through trust from beginning to end.

Yes, in a loose sense, yes.

Just like a new born baby is alive and ready to live, but without proper food, shelter, instruction, loving care, the baby will never mature into what it could be.

Likewise, we as newly born again children of God , we must learn proper spiritual diet, learn to seek God's shelter, His refuge for us, the instruction he has for us, his care for us, etc.

Luke 4:4, Jeremiah 15:16,

Psalm 9:9 The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble.

Psalm 14:6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the Lord is his refuge.

Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

II Timothy 3:16

I Peter 5:7

etc.

We must do it, although there are older brothers and sisters in Christ nearby, we must seek out what we need.

No one will force feed us these things.

It is up to us to act.

God does not force people against their will.

God's word is persuasive if we heed it, but God does not violate our free will.

God would not give us instruction on how to conduct our lives if we did not have the free will and ability to carry out His instructions. If God did it all, then why bother with scripture?

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 05:14 AM
Paul was exhorting Timothy to "take hold of eternal life" as opposed to taking hold of temporal existence and everything that entails. To lay hold of the things pertaining to the eternal kingdom instead of the things of the world and time.

There are at least 10 scriptures in my post, but you probably won't see them.
And to lay hold is to do absolutely nothing, right?

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Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 05:39 AM
And to lay hold is to do absolutely nothing, right?

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It's a spiritual laying hold and not physical or with outward works.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 05:42 AM
Yes, in a loose sense, yes.

Just like a new born baby is alive and ready to live, but without proper food, shelter, instruction, loving care, the baby will never mature into what it could be.

Likewise, we as newly born again children of God , we must learn proper spiritual diet, learn to seek God's shelter, His refuge for us, the instruction he has for us, his care for us, etc.

Luke 4:4, Jeremiah 15:16,

Psalm 9:9 The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble.

Psalm 14:6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the Lord is his refuge.

Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

II Timothy 3:16

I Peter 5:7

etc.

We must do it, although there are older brothers and sisters in Christ nearby, we must seek out what we need.

No one will force feed us these things.

It is up to us to act.

God does not force people against their will.

God's word is persuasive if we heed it, but God does not violate our free will.

God would not give us instruction on how to conduct our lives if we did not have the free will and ability to carry out His instructions. If God did it all, then why bother with scripture?

You pervert the truth because you have no experience of the power of the evangelism. You've read about it. You've heard about it and you talk about it, but you haven't experienced the power therein. Everything you speak and post is done so parrot fashion. Repeating the sounds of words, but without knowing what they mean.

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 05:42 AM
It's a spiritual laying hold and not physical or with outward works.
And..... Answer the question.

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Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 05:47 AM
And..... Answer the question.

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No.

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 05:53 AM
No.
So you admit that clinging to the cord of faith is doing something.

Good.... Progress

peace

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Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 06:34 AM
So you admit that clinging to the cord of faith is doing something.

Good.... Progress

peace

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Trust is not a cord.

Nihilo
June 22nd, 2017, 07:07 AM
Indeed, they were being "not slothful in business, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord" Romans 12:11It's not hard. :e4e:

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 07:16 AM
Indeed, they were being "not slothful in business, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord" Romans 12:11

Correctly translated: "Not slothful in diligence: zealous in spirit; serving Adonay in season"

Epoisses
June 22nd, 2017, 07:37 AM
Trust is not a cord.

No it's a whip of the Almighty to crack backs! Ya mule, Ya!

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 07:44 AM
No it's a whip of the Almighty to crack backs! Ya mule, Ya!

And that is a lie.

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 07:45 AM
Trust is not a cord.
Do you deny we are to hold tenaciously to our faith/trust, and nothing else?

Do you believe that true faith/trust brings about faithfulness and reciprocal trust?

Jeremiah: 10. 16. The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. 17. Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress. 18. For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so. 19. Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it. 20. My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains. 21. For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered. 22. Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. 23. O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. 24. O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. 25. Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate. - Bible Offline

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Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 07:52 AM
Yet again you use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.

Nang
June 22nd, 2017, 07:52 AM
No it's a whip of the Almighty to crack backs! Ya mule, Ya!

This is a really stupid thing to post . . .

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 09:48 AM
Yet again you use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.
You generally use that one on another, but whatever. Be blind, stupor around in the dark, just don't question the outcome when the truth comes.

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popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 09:49 AM
Yet again you use scriptures as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination.
Thanks for answering by the way

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Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 09:50 AM
You generally use that one one another, but whatever. Be blind, stupor around in the dark, just don't question the outcome whenbthe truth comes.

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You shouldn't post while in a stupor.

popsthebuilder
June 22nd, 2017, 09:54 AM
You shouldn't post while in a stupor.
Fixed it... Thanks

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Epoisses
June 22nd, 2017, 10:55 AM
This is a really stupid thing to post . . .

Not as stupid as your worthless religion that you sold your soul for where you can't even admit that the world actually means the whole world!

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 12:27 PM
It's not hard. :e4e:

I John 5:3 tells us that it is not grievous.

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 12:31 PM
You pervert the truth because you have no experience of the power of the evangelism. You've read about it. You've heard about it and you talk about it, but you haven't experienced the power therein. Everything you speak and post is done so parrot fashion. Repeating the sounds of words, but without knowing what they mean.

Again, thanks for offering your opinion.

However, again, you have not shown one scripture to support your claim, nor how they apply to what I have written.

Well, if you believe that I have no self control or free will, that God does all the deciding, then why are you criticizing me, you should take up your cbjections to God.

By the way, evangelism is about sharing the good news of the gospel of Christ like Philip did in Samaria. Acts 8:4-13 ...

Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

8 And there was great joy in that city.

9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


Note that scripture states that they believed Philip.

It does not say that they trusted Philip, they did something far more noteworthy, they believed him.

Philip was doing God's will, he preached Christ unto them and saw and heard the miracles which God did, oops, sorry that is not what it says, which Philip did.

They had a change of heart and instead of following the false signs and wonders of Simon, they chose, by their own free will to give heed unto Philip.

It says they gave heed to Philip, it does not say God forced them to mindlessly trust Philip

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 12:43 PM
Again, thanks for offering your opinion.

However, again, you have not shown one scripture to support your claim, nor how they apply to what I have written.

Well, if you believe that I have no self control or free will, that God does all the deciding, then why are you criticizing me, you should take up your cbjections to God.

By the way, evangelism is about sharing the good news of the gospel of Christ like Philip did in Samaria. Acts 8:4-13 ...

Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

8 And there was great joy in that city.

9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


Note that scripture states that they believed Philip.

It does not say that they trusted Philip, they did something far more noteworthy, they believed him.

Philip was doing God's will, he preached Christ unto them and saw and heard the miracles which God did, oops, sorry that is not what it says, which Philip did.

They had a change of heart and instead of following the false signs and wonders of Simon, they chose, by their own free will to give heed unto Philip.

It says they gave heed to Philip, it does not say God forced them to mindlessly trust Philip

You confuse belief, faith and trust. Only one of these words conveys what the Hebrew and Greek conveyed.

patrick jane
June 22nd, 2017, 12:52 PM
Again, thanks for offering your opinion.

However, again, you have not shown one scripture to support your claim, nor how they apply to what I have written.

Well, if you believe that I have no self control or free will, that God does all the deciding, then why are you criticizing me, you should take up your cbjections to God.

By the way, evangelism is about sharing the good news of the gospel of Christ like Philip did in Samaria. Acts 8:4-13 ...

Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

8 And there was great joy in that city.

9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


Note that scripture states that they believed Philip.

It does not say that they trusted Philip, they did something far more noteworthy, they believed him.

Philip was doing God's will, he preached Christ unto them and saw and heard the miracles which God did, oops, sorry that is not what it says, which Philip did.

They had a change of heart and instead of following the false signs and wonders of Simon, they chose, by their own free will to give heed unto Philip.

It says they gave heed to Philip, it does not say God forced them to mindlessly trust PhilipGreat points

oatmeal
June 22nd, 2017, 02:18 PM
You confuse belief, faith and trust. Only one of these words conveys what the Hebrew and Greek conveyed.

Too bad you remain without supportive scripture.

What do you base your beliefs on?

John 5:39 would be a good place for you to start.

Truster
June 22nd, 2017, 02:25 PM
Too bad you remain without supportive scripture.

What do you base your beliefs on?

John 5:39 would be a good place for you to start.

The doctrines I post are based on scripture. Only those that know and recognise the scriptures in the doctrine can benefit.

I have a few friends that move their lips as I'm talking and they are speaking the verses I base my conversations on. One of them just quotes chapter and verse.

oatmeal
June 23rd, 2017, 04:13 PM
You confuse belief, faith and trust. Only one of these words conveys what the Hebrew and Greek conveyed.

That is only your opinion. Too bad you cannot show it.

oatmeal
June 23rd, 2017, 04:17 PM
The doctrines I post are based on scripture. Only those that know and recognise the scriptures in the doctrine can benefit.

I have a few friends that move their lips as I'm talking and they are speaking the verses I base my conversations on. One of them just quotes chapter and verse.

Are they? What scripture have you listed to support your post?

I do not recall any.

Why should I trust you since you cannot supply scripture?

Well, maybe you should video tape your friends and post that video?

Or better yet, why not list some scripture?

Here are some scriptures for your spiritual enrichment.

Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 12:12 AM
Are they? What scripture have you listed to support your post?

I do not recall any.

Why should I trust you since you cannot supply scripture?

Well, maybe you should video tape your friends and post that video?

Or better yet, why not list some scripture?

Here are some scriptures for your spiritual enrichment.

Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

You do not have the spiritual ability to recognise and trust the truth.

You demand verses so here's a verse just for you:


But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when Elohim's just judgment will be revealed.

oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 04:22 AM
You do not have the spiritual ability to recognise and trust the truth.

You demand verses so here's a verse just for you:


But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when Elohim's just judgment will be revealed.

Well, again, you have strong opinions and are ready to condemn, but based on what?

Your opinion only.

You cannot show how any of your conclusions are based on scripture.

Why do you wish to continue to be a false witness?

Why don't you trust scripture?

Why don't you rely on God's word for answers instead of your own ego?

Why your obsession with self righteousness?

Romans 4:3

Philippians 3:9-11

Why not support your statements with scripture and actually do some good?

oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 04:31 AM
My apologies for being distracted by a nay sayer who does not consider scripture worthy evidence or a foundation for their posts. Who actually seems to be suppressing scripture. Romans 1:18

Well, that is one reason that we are to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So as to function well in carrying out our individual ministries of reconciling people back to God as ambassadors for Christ

II Corinthians 5:18-20

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

What are we to reconcile people with? With the word of reconciliation that God has committed to us.

If I know one verse, I can share the truths in that one verse. If I know a thousand verses, I have no reason to hold or suppress those truths as some have, Romans 1:18 the unbelievers held or suppressed the truth.

God forbid we ever hold or suppress the truth.

We can share scripture freely and boldly as it meets the needs of the individuals seeking.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 05:11 AM
Well, again, you have strong opinions and are ready to condemn, but based on what?

Your opinion only.

You cannot show how any of your conclusions are based on scripture.

Why do you wish to continue to be a false witness?

Why don't you trust scripture?

Why don't you rely on God's word for answers instead of your own ego?

Why your obsession with self righteousness?

Romans 4:3

Philippians 3:9-11

Why not support your statements with scripture and actually do some good?

I have no opinions only access to and the understanding of truth. My justness is that which I have been given. I have no confidence in the flesh. Your accusations are now at the bottom of the barrel and I advice you to quit. You bear false witness against the Eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 06:35 AM
I have no opinions only access to and the understanding of truth. My justness is that which I have been given. I have no confidence in the flesh. Your accusations are now at the bottom of the barrel and I advice you to quit. You bear false witness against the Eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Really?

Show me the evidence from scripture. You do not.

For that matter, why do you condemn me? If you Calvinist guesses are right, it is not me but God that you condemn.

If Calvin is right, then I have no free will that enables me to change.

You might as well tell a brick to repent and to have a change of heart.

Fool! God does not expect of me what I am not capable of doing.

If Calvin is right you do expect me to do what I cannot do.

Calvin was an irresponsible fool, he did not want to take responsibility for his beliefs, his mind, his heart, his actions, he wants to blame his life on God, not on his own choices.

You follow in his footsteps.

You want to blame God for your mistakes, your sins and yet you blame me for mine.

Get a life, oh, wait, you do not have the free will to do so, right?

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 06:41 AM
Really?

Show me the evidence from scripture. You do not.

For that matter, why do you condemn me? If you Calvinist guesses are right, it is not me but God that you condemn.

I'm not a Calvinist I openly condemn them. You openly and wrongly accuse me to deny me the right to expose the works of darkness.

oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 06:54 AM
I'm not a Calvinist I openly condemn them. You openly and wrongly accuse me to deny me the right to expose the works of darkness.

Based on my understanding of what Calvinists post here and what you post, you and them are sitting in the same pew

Show me from scripture what you believe.

Well, you may say that but you teach that no one has free will, if not, then it is not you that is posting is it, but whatever entity is controlling you, or maybe even possessing you.

God does not possess, devils do.

I post this because I choose to, by exercising my free will to do so, to believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation and the word of reconciliation and thus exercise it.

Are you suggesting that you have never, ever made a decision in your entire life?

Are you suggesting, by rejecting the possibility of free will that you are but someone's puppet?

Say it isn't so

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:04 AM
Based on my understanding of what Calvinists post here and what you post, you and them are sitting in the same pew

Show me from scripture what you believe.

Well, you may say that but you teach that no one has free will, if not, then it is not you that is posting is it, but whatever entity is controlling you, or maybe even possessing you.

God does not possess, devils do.

I post this because I choose to, by exercising my free will to do so, to believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation and the word of reconciliation and thus exercise it.

Are you suggesting that you have never, ever made a decision in your entire life?

Are you suggesting, by rejecting the possibility of free will that you are but someone's puppet?

Say it isn't so
He is actually a hyper Calvinist; notice how the general Calvinist won't even agree with him. He thinks all are doomed to etetnal destruction but him, though it is the will of GOD for all to come to GOD.

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 07:23 AM
Based on my understanding of what Calvinists post here and what you post, you and them are sitting in the same pew

Show me from scripture what you believe.

Well, you may say that but you teach that no one has free will, if not, then it is not you that is posting is it, but whatever entity is controlling you, or maybe even possessing you.

God does not possess, devils do.

I post this because I choose to, by exercising my free will to do so, to believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation and the word of reconciliation and thus exercise it.

Are you suggesting that you have never, ever made a decision in your entire life?

Are you suggesting, by rejecting the possibility of free will that you are but someone's puppet?

Say it isn't so

Read my signature.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:26 AM
Read my signature.
Or ignore it and keeping what you know via the Holy Spirit, selfless conscience and scripture.

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 07:30 AM
Or ignore it and keeping what you know via the Holy Spirit, selfless conscience and scripture.

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You have sufficient light to condemn yourself and no more.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:33 AM
You have sufficient light to condemn yourself and no more.
As do we all.

Each will be accountable for his own sin.

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 07:36 AM
As do we all.

Each will be accountable for his own sin.

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"Blessed is the one whose sin Yah Veh will never count against them."

I'm not accountable, because The Almighty is just towards the saints and His Son.

You are accountable and your account is reaching its full measure...

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:38 AM
"Blessed is the one whose sin Yah Veh will never count against them."

I'm not accountable, because The Almighty is just towards the saints and His Son.

You are accountable and your account is reaching its full measure...
You have been blinded by pride.

Beware lest the desires of the flesh and of a corrupt inclination provoke divisions among you. Be ye as the fingers of one hand, the members of one body. Thus counseleth you the Pen of Revelation, if ye be of them that believe.

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 07:44 AM
You have been blinded by pride.

Beware lest the desires of the flesh and of a corrupt inclination provoke divisions among you. Be ye as the fingers of one hand, the members of one body. Thus counseleth you the Pen of Revelation, if ye be of them that believe.

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Everything that you think, say, write and do is sinful and you need to repent and trust.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:55 AM
Everything that you think, say, write and do is sinful and you need to repent and trust.
You should be mindful of what you speak against; especially the word of GOD.

Here; have some ammo for your fight;

But what plea have they that GOD should not punish them when they keep back from the Holy temple, whilst they are not its trustees. Its trustees are only those who have become secure against evil but most of these know not.



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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 07:57 AM
You should be mindful of what you speak against; especially the word of GOD.

Here; have some ammo for your fight;

But what plea have they that GOD should not punish them when they keep back from the Holy temple, whilst they are not its trustees. Its trustees are only those who have become secure against evil but most of these know not.



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REPENT and trust.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 07:58 AM
REPENT and trust.
I do and will continue to. Thank you for the advice.

Just curious though; how do you tell someone to repent if it is a free gift?

peace

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oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 08:58 AM
Read my signature.

Well, if you do not have the free will to make the decision to trust, how can you boast that you are actually trusting.

Trust would require some effort on your part, since you seem to claim you are in control, then you are not actually capable of trust on your own, you are simply a puppet on a string with no will of your own.

Not having a will of your own you are incapable of trust.

Therefore you cannot claim to trust anything, not even your own doctrines, which is impossible because you would have no free will to choose any doctrine or what god or gods you are a puppet of.

oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 09:01 AM
REPENT and trust.

How can he if he no free will of his own to make that decision.

Do you not have any clue that you tell him to do what is impossible for him or you to do if you and everyone has no free will to decide that.

God makes salvation available to all to receive, it is their choice if they want to receive it by doing Romans 10:9

Then it is up to you to follow through and live what you confessed and believed.

We who choose to believe and confess are saved not those who are puppets who will not take responsibility to do so.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 01:12 PM
How can he if he no free will of his own to make that decision.

Do you not have any clue that you tell him to do what is impossible for him or you to do if you and everyone has no free will to decide that.

God makes salvation available to all to receive, it is their choice if they want to receive it by doing Romans 10:9

Then it is up to you to follow through and live what you confessed and believed.

We who choose to believe and confess are saved not those who are puppets who will not take responsibility to do so.

If repentance were a matter of free-will then why haven't you done so. You are not a converted soul. You are in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. You walk in the vanity of your mind.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 01:14 PM
Well, if you do not have the free will to make the decision to trust, how can you boast that you are actually trusting.

Trust would require some effort on your part, since you seem to claim you are in control, then you are not actually capable of trust on your own, you are simply a puppet on a string with no will of your own.

Not having a will of your own you are incapable of trust.

Therefore you cannot claim to trust anything, not even your own doctrines, which is impossible because you would have no free will to choose any doctrine or what god or gods you are a puppet of.

Trust is a spiritual endowment that allows the recipient to abandon himself into the care of another. In this case it is the care of a Saviour and King.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 01:17 PM
I do and will continue to. Thank you for the advice.

Just curious though; how do you tell someone to repent if it is a free gift?

peace

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You are commanded to repent, trust and be holy. You cannot perform any of these duties, but you are guilty of not doing so. Your demand that you have done so is a lie and so you add burden to burden.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 04:06 PM
Trust is a spiritual endowment that allows the recipient to abandon himself into the care of another. In this case it is the care of a Saviour and King.
Faith is a free gift but it too can grow, and does in those who actually believe; as in, believe the Example and follow the Way.... you know; actually believing?

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 04:12 PM
Faith is a free gift but it too can grow, and does in those who actually believe; as in, believe the Example and follow the Way.... you know; actually believing?

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Believe and faith and both inherent in man and are simply a psyching up of the mental attributes. Trust is the spiritual endowment and a gift received at regeneration. Trust is the abandonment of self into the care of another.

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 04:19 PM
You are commanded to repent, trust and be holy. You cannot perform any of these duties, but you are guilty of not doing so. Your demand that you have done so is a lie and so you add burden to burden.

You know not what has been given me, nor to what extents I have wholly been changed, nor how opposite I turned from the directions I had gone in times past; because I don't speak of them; because I'm not trying to convince anyone about my character, but about the Will of GOD as it pertains to each of us. I never ever claimed to be Holy, though I know it is available and possible for me to do so through the working of the Holy Spirit and the example and way that is Jesus the Christ. I too know that it is sin for me personally not to strive to abide by what I do know and have been shown with a surety. Am I condemned by such? Indeed not as I am a believer and do have faith in the Lord GOD. I will not throw away the mercy and love GOD showed me in my need, nor the things revealed. Is it work? Indeed. Have I claimed to have completed or done anything? No. Will it be done? By the will of GOD alone.

peace

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popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 04:24 PM
Believe and faith and both inherent in man and are simply a psyching up of the mental attributes. Trust is the spiritual endowment and a gift received at regeneration. Trust is the abandonment of self into the care of another.
Actually; that can be conveyed with any of the three.

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Truster
June 24th, 2017, 04:37 PM
You know not what has been given me, nor to what extents I have wholly been changed, nor how opposite I turned from the directions I had gone in times past; because I don't speak of them; because I'm not trying to convince anyone about my character, but about the Will of GOD as it pertains to each of us. I never ever claimed to be Holy, though I know it is available and possible for me to do so through the working of the Holy Spirit and the example and way that is Jesus the Christ. I too know that it is sin for me personally not to strive to abide by what I do know and have been shown with a surety. Am I condemned by such? Indeed not as I am a believer and do have faith in the Lord GOD. I will not throw away the mercy and love GOD showed me in my need, nor the things revealed. Is it work? Indeed. Have I claimed to have completed or done anything? No. Will it be done? By the will of GOD alone.

peace

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You have not been saved and while you trust in yourself and your righteousness there is no room to accommodate grace.

Truster
June 24th, 2017, 04:38 PM
Actually; that can be conveyed with any of the three.

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"Conveyed"?

popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 05:03 PM
You have not been saved and while you trust in yourself and your righteousness there is no room to accommodate grace.
Again; you litetally speak from a position of ignorance; yet attempt to convey some tone of authority.

It was initially sad, but is now slightly comical.

You say GOD changed you; but you would have had to heed that change; it isn't involuntary, remember; we talked about this. It isn't slavery....membas?....i membas.....


.

peace

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popsthebuilder
June 24th, 2017, 05:05 PM
"Conveyed"?

con·vey

kənˈvā/

verb

past tense:*conveyed; past participle:*conveyed


make (an idea, impression, or feeling) known or understandable to someone.

"the real virtues and diversity of America had never been conveyed in the movies"

synonyms:project,*exude,*emit,*emanate

"he conveys an air of competence"

communicate (a message or information).

"Mr. Harvey and his daughter have asked me to convey their very kind regards"

synonyms:communicate,*pass on,*make known,*impart,*relay,*transmit,*send,*hand on/off,*relate,*tell,*reveal,*disclose

"he conveyed the information to me"

express,*communicate,*get across/over,*put across/over,*indicate,say

"it's impossible to convey how I felt"




"Conveyed"?


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oatmeal
June 24th, 2017, 10:25 PM
Trust is a spiritual endowment that allows the recipient to abandon himself into the care of another. In this case it is the care of a Saviour and King.

God does not endow people with trust.

He expects people to decide to trust him. Proverbs 3:5-6 ....

I choose to trust God by trusting His words, even as I choose to believe God by believing His words

Truster
June 25th, 2017, 01:48 AM
God does not endow people with trust.

He expects people to decide to trust him. Proverbs 3:5-6 ....

I choose to trust God by trusting His words, even as I choose to believe God by believing His words

You do no more than Satan does in belief and trust, but Satan is far more obedient to The Almighty than you could ever be.

oatmeal
June 25th, 2017, 06:38 AM
You have not been saved and while you trust in yourself and your righteousness there is no room to accommodate grace.

Scripture please?

oatmeal
June 25th, 2017, 06:42 AM
You do no more than Satan does in belief and trust, but Satan is far more obedient to The Almighty than you could ever be.

So you say that satan is saved, but I am not?

So you say Satan is more saved than I am?

That is rich.

Again, why no scripture?

Acts 8:35

It is becoming a simple conclusion, that the reason you do not post scripture is because you do not know any.

For that matter, when someone does post scripture, you realize your own shortcomings in being able to teach scripture instead of being thankful that some here actually can teach scripture with varying degrees of accuracy.

Colossians 3:15 sounds like a great verse for you to implement into your lifestyle.

Remember Romans 5:1

You are justified and have peace with God, be thankful

Truster
June 25th, 2017, 06:49 AM
So you say that satan is saved, but I am not?

So you say Satan is more saved than I am?

That is rich.

Again, why no scripture?

Acts 8:35

It is becoming a simple conclusion, that the reason you do not post scripture is because you do not know any.

For that matter, when someone does post scripture, you realize your own shortcomings in being able to teach scripture instead of being thankful that some here actually can teach scripture with varying degrees of accuracy.

Colossians 3:15 sounds like a great verse for you to implement into your lifestyle.

Remember Romans 5:1

You are justified and have peace with God, be thankful

I didn't say that Satan is saved. You lie and twist everything.

oatmeal
June 25th, 2017, 07:29 AM
I didn't say that Satan is saved. You lie and twist everything.

All those who have done Romans 10:9 are justified and have peace with God, Romans 5:1, we have the righteousness of God, II Corinthians 5:21. Are you saying that God justified Satan and is at peace with him? and that God gave His righteousness to Satan?

I have received the gift of salvation and thus have received justification and His righteousness and have peace with God and I choose to live in those realities.

Does Satan do that? Are you saying he has the right to do that? I do, all Christians do, are you saying that Satan does as well?

Please explain your comment using scripture and my trust and belief of God to demonstrate why you reached the conclusion you reached.

Any fool can jump to conclusions and fools do that regularly.

Your lack of evidence to support your conclusions demonstrate that most clearly.

So, I am awaiting your exposition of scripture as to how you reached your conclusions.

I have all eternity to wait and based on your track history, eternity will not be long enough for you to provide evidence, but Jesus Christ is coming back for those who are saved, Romans 10:9, which includes me and I am sure that I will have new responsibilities to carry out involving the events in the book of Revelation. I will not have time to listen to you whine about your defenseless meology.

Truster
June 25th, 2017, 07:46 AM
All those who have done Romans 10:9 are justified and have peace with God, Romans 5:1, we have the righteousness of God, II Corinthians 5:21. Are you saying that God justified Satan and is at peace with him? and that God gave His righteousness to Satan?

I have received the gift of salvation and thus have received justification and His righteousness and have peace with God and I choose to live in those realities.

Does Satan do that? Are you saying he has the right to do that? I do, all Christians do, are you saying that Satan does as well?

Please explain your comment using scripture and my trust and belief of God to demonstrate why you reached the conclusion you reached.

Any fool can jump to conclusions and fools do that regularly.

Your lack of evidence to support your conclusions demonstrate that most clearly.

So, I am awaiting your exposition of scripture as to how you reached your conclusions.

I have all eternity to wait and based on your track history, eternity will not be long enough for you to provide evidence, but Jesus Christ is coming back for those who are saved, Romans 10:9, which includes me and I am sure that I will have new responsibilities to carry out involving the events in the book of Revelation. I will not have time to listen to you whine about your defenseless meology.

Stop twisting the truth to suit you own carnal agenda. You are not a lover of truth and the truth has not set you free. You have a form of reverence, but you deny the power thereof. You have been led astray and now you look for proselytes.

There are at least 6 scriptures in this post, but you will not recognise them.

oatmeal
June 25th, 2017, 08:15 AM
As Christians, as believers on the name of the lord Jesus Christ, we have incredible promises of God available for us to believe and receive.

Yes, we have received the gift of salvation, but salvation is not all that is available.

God has far more in store for us than simply salvation.

I Corinthians 2:9

We are more than conquerors Romans 8:37

It takes a spiritual minded person to realize that.

Romans 8:6

We have been called, justified and glorified. Romans 8:30

We need not ever be overcome with evil, it is always available for us to overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21

We have the higher powers in the church, the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers that God has ordained for us to learn from and be strengthened by. When we do what is right we receive praise of the same. Romans 13

We never need be in debt, God tells us to "owe no man anything" and he means it. It is possible to live debt free, not only possible but required that we "owe no man anything" except to love one another. Romans 13:8

It is available for us to fulfill the law, Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, in Romans 13:8 states that loves one another has, past tense, fulfilled the law.

We need to and can live love and thus fulfill the law. Romans 13:11

We can and should "put on the lord Jesus Christ" we can think and believe and love just like he did.

We can wisely and accurately deliver people from the clutches of Satan. We teach the scripture the word of reconciliation, II Corinthians 5:18-20, so that people have that opportunity and the know how to do so.

We learn not to judge our brother, but we do teach them and admonish them to get on the right track. Romans 14:10

We can learn to follow after those things that make for peace and the things wherewith we can edify one another. Romans 14:19

There is so much that God has made available for us to believe and incorporate in our lifestyle as believers that will draw men to Christ and thus to God. John 14:6

What a privilege to be called sons of God and we are. I John 3:1-3

Truster
June 25th, 2017, 08:25 AM
The NT precepts are a guide for the justified. You have no part in the precepts or the evangelism. These epistles are written for and relevant to repentant sinners only.

popsthebuilder
June 25th, 2017, 08:34 AM
Pay no mind to the thoughtless, spiteful, parroting and manipulations put forth by the proud and envious.

peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

oatmeal
June 25th, 2017, 02:24 PM
Pay no mind to the thoughtless, spiteful, parroting and manipulations put forth by the proud and envious.

peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

Yes, indeed.

oatmeal
June 28th, 2017, 02:50 PM
Having received the gift of salvation on the day of Pentecost, what is the first thing the apostles did?

Acts 2:1-4

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

They spoke in tongues.

What is the second major thing the apostles did?

Peter stood up with the eleven and Peter started teaching God's word. He got busy sharing God's word with the people.

Acts 2:14-36

Acts 2:14

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Of course, having been with Jesus Christ, having been taught and trained the apostle Jesus Christ, and having already had preached and taught before, this was not new to them, but clearly, they were setting the pace for others to follow.

oatmeal
June 30th, 2017, 04:40 AM
We learn to walk not by the flesh but by the spirit not by sight but by believing

Lazy afternoon
July 1st, 2017, 02:10 AM
The first disciples of Christ are the blueprint for all disciples since.

It is not so that all believers are also disciples but the Lord calls His disciples from among the believers at His own choosing.

Any can seek it at any time.

I assure everyone that they will not be disappointed if they do, but all of your friends who are not disciples will be.



LA

oatmeal
July 1st, 2017, 07:28 AM
The first disciples of Christ are the blueprint for all disciples since.

It is not so that all believers are also disciples but the Lord calls His disciples from among the believers at His own choosing.

Any can seek it at any time.

I assure everyone that they will not be disappointed if they do, but all of your friends who are not disciples will be.



LA

Thank you for your response

Any one who continues in the word is a disciple.

John 8:31

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

oatmeal
July 2nd, 2017, 12:23 PM
When we read the following passage with the above post in mind, we find that James is not focused the receiving of the gift of salvation, but on the godly use of that gift of salvation

James is written to people who have received the gift of salvation. This is shown by the use of brethren, the reference to "every good and perfect gift is from above" James 1:17 , by reference to "have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ... with respect of persons" James is telling them to use the faith of Jesus Christ rightly. They can use it rightly or wrongly because they already have it. James is telling them to use it rightly.

The following passage is clearer if the word believe is used instead of the word faith, for God gave to us the faith of Jesus Christ, the measure of faith, our response is to believe God's word to make use of it rightly.

James 2:14-26


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


By seeing a person's works, you can tell what they are believing. Without seeing the works, where is the believing?

As you or I work to hold forth the words of life, Philippians 2:15-16, it is clear that you and I am believing that it is our God given responsibility to do so.

Being justified does not help the mind unless we believe it, and since believing is action we must act accordingly, first in our mind then with our bodies.

The spiritual realities are our first priority, we incorporate them into our thinking in our mind and it seeps down into our heart the place where we believe.

Romans 10:10

oatmeal
July 3rd, 2017, 04:43 AM
We want to make sure we are thinking what God wants us to think.

Philippians 4:8

Philippians 2:5

Philippians 3:13-14

.....

oatmeal
August 4th, 2017, 04:38 AM
Are you doing anything to "come to the knowledge of the truth"?

What are you doing to "come to the knowledge of the truth"?

How do you know it is "the knowledge of the truth" instead of "a knowledge of a truth"?

ttruscott
August 4th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Having received salvation, what is next? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?125619-Having-received-salvation-what-is-next/page11)
Hang onto your hat because if you are a legitimate (not reprobate, ie, counterfeit) child of GOD you are now about to be painfully disciplined, chastised for your choices to sin until you are trained in righteousness...Hebrews 12:5-11.

Robert Pate
August 7th, 2017, 10:30 AM
After we are saved the Holy Spirit will begin to do a work in our life that will make us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel. It is called a work of conversion and can be life changing.

"For we are his workman ship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.

oatmeal
August 8th, 2017, 04:23 AM
Show your sacrificial faith without your evil works and I'll show you actual faith through good works.

All is work unless you literally do nothing.

You running around calling everyone stupid is a work.... You should study scripture and see what sort of working is, and what will be recompensed for such acts.



Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

Good point, I am reminded of the phrase, "by their fruits shall ye know them"

It takes work to bear fruit whether good fruit of bad fruit.

or, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"

We decide what we put or allow in our minds and thus eventually into our hearts. That takes decisive work.

Speaking with the mouth is work. for that matter, typing on a keyboard is work.

Sharing God's word is work as it reading and studying it.

II Timothy 2:15 Those who shew themselves approved unto God rigthtly dividing the word of truth will have to work at it, because it takes a workman to do so.

oatmeal
August 8th, 2017, 04:34 AM
Having received salvation, what is next? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?125619-Having-received-salvation-what-is-next/page11)
Hang onto your hat because if you are a legitimate (not reprobate, ie, counterfeit) child of GOD you are now about to be painfully disciplined, chastised for your choices to sin until you are trained in righteousness...Hebrews 12:5-11.

God's word, scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction which is instruction in righteousness.

II Timothy 3:16

Those who care to learn, those that hunger and thirst after righteousness, God shall absolutely fill to the level of hunger and thirst of that individual

He most certainly works in us both to desire and to do His good pleasure, but we must be willing participants in our learning and growing process as your verses indicate.

If we are not willing God will not be able to teach us anything. When we are humble and meek, that is willing to receive and willing to do the work that it takes to learn God can work in us mightily.

No doubt Saul of Tarsus when he finally learned how great an error he had been living, experienced some deep sorrow and pain.

Saul, with the great knowledge of scripture that he had, had not connected the dots to realize that Jesus is the anointed one that the OT prophets and believers had been foretold and looked forward to.

Once he realized that the Messiah that was foretold in the OT is Jesus, there must have been a torrent of mixed emotions, guilt and joy, sorrow and happiness. Not a pleasant soup to be swimming in.

Truth can be a shock to our systems if we have been living a lie.

oatmeal
August 8th, 2017, 04:36 AM
After we are saved the Holy Spirit will begin to do a work in our life that will make us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel. It is called a work of conversion and can be life changing.

"For we are his workman ship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.

Yes, and God works in us to want to and to accomplish those things. Philippians 2:13

As we do those things our hearts should be encouraged to do more.

This all depends on how seriously we learn what scripture already tells us to do.

oatmeal
August 8th, 2017, 04:45 AM
Salvation by works.

It is by the works of Jesus Christ in loving free will obedience to the Father that the works of my salvation and your salvation was accomplished.

It is our responsibility to believe to receive that gift, it takes our humble stretching out of our hands, Romans 10:9-10, to receive that gift.

A lazy man will not even lift food to his mouth.

Proverbs 19:24

A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.

Will that man ever take up the bread of life to his mouth and eat of it?

Will that man ever raise the cup of living waters to his mouth and drink of it?

It takes work to follow the teachings of scripture, including receiving the gift of salvation

Truster
August 8th, 2017, 07:19 AM
It is by the works of Jesus Christ in loving free will obedience to the Father that the works of my salvation and your salvation was accomplished.

It is our responsibility to believe to receive that gift, it takes our humble stretching out of our hands, Romans 10:9-10, to receive that gift.

A lazy man will not even lift food to his mouth.

Proverbs 19:24

A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.

Will that man ever take up the bread of life to his mouth and eat of it?

Will that man ever raise the cup of living waters to his mouth and drink of it?

It takes work to follow the teachings of scripture, including receiving the gift of salvation

I repeat. You promote salvation by works. And do so because you are a stranger to the grace that brings salvation .

oatmeal
August 8th, 2017, 04:42 PM
I repeat. You promote salvation by works. And do so because you are a stranger to the grace that brings salvation .

The word of God in Ephesians 4 teaches or rather commands that we

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Instead of lying about what I say, why not renew your mind to the scripture I teach?

That would be far more profitable, spiritually, morally, mentally, and physically for your than lying about me and all the other people you lie about

popsthebuilder
August 8th, 2017, 05:50 PM
I repeat. You promote salvation by works. And do so because you are a stranger to the grace that brings salvation .Study "stranger"

It is a blessing to not be under the delusion of the harlet.

How have you been sir?

Truster
August 9th, 2017, 12:00 AM
The word of God in Ephesians 4 teaches or rather commands that we

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Instead of lying about what I say, why not renew your mind to the scripture I teach?

That would be far more profitable, spiritually, morally, mentally, and physically for your than lying about me and all the other people you lie about

Profitability is better measured when Messiah is honoured and not mankind.

Truster
August 9th, 2017, 12:02 AM
Study "stranger"

It is a blessing to not be under the delusion of the harlet.

How have you been sir?

I have no need to study "stranger", because I recognise them by their lack of spiritual comprehension. I also know the difference between a stranger and a babe.

oatmeal
August 9th, 2017, 12:49 AM
Profitability is better measured when Messiah is honoured and not mankind.

Have you not read II Timothy 3:16?

The point of scripture is that it is profitable to us

popsthebuilder
August 9th, 2017, 04:11 AM
I have no need to study "stranger", because I recognise them by their lack of spiritual comprehension. I also know the difference between a stranger and a babe.Try again; you are missing something substantial.

I take it you are doing well.

oatmeal
August 9th, 2017, 04:51 AM
Have you not read II Timothy 3:16?

The point of scripture is that it is profitable to us

Until we do the works that God foreordained us to do because we receieved the gift of salvation, our salvation lies dormant. We have gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit whether we do what scripture says we should do with it or not.

That gift remains unprofitable to us (except that it is eternal life), until we read the instructions and live our lives according to those instructions. God wants us to be blessed far beyong simply having received the gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit.

Believing God takes work. If you do not think so, you might want to check if you have ever really believed God.

How much work did it take for Noah to believe God?

How work did it take for the apostles including Paul and the other apostles since then to believe God?

How much work did it take for Jesus Christ to believe God?

Why the exhortation "be not weary in well doing" if believing is without effort?

Why is the job of rightly dividing the word of truth in the realm of a workman if believing is not work?

It took work for the man with the withered hand to receive healing, Mark 3:1-5, he had to do the impossible, he had to stretch forth his hand. He did the works required to receive his healing.

Truster
August 9th, 2017, 04:53 AM
Have you not read II Timothy 3:16?

The point of scripture is that it is profitable to us

The Holy Spirit is given to glorify Messiah. Those that have the Holy Spirit are obedient to His teaching.

popsthebuilder
August 9th, 2017, 06:05 AM
Until we do the works that God foreordained us to do because we receieved the gift of salvation, our salvation lies dormant. We have gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit whether we do what scripture says we should do with it or not.

That gift remains unprofitable to us (except that it is eternal life), until we read the instructions and live our lives according to those instructions. God wants us to be blessed far beyong simply having received the gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit.

Believing God takes work. If you do not think so, you might want to check if you have ever really believed God.

How much work did it take for Noah to believe God?

How work did it take for the apostles including Paul and the other apostles since then to believe God?

How much work did it take for Jesus Christ to believe God?

Why the exhortation "be not weary in well doing" if believing is without effort?

Why is the job of rightly dividing the word of truth in the realm of a workman if believing is not work?

It took work for the man with the withered hand to receive healing, Mark 3:1-5, he had to do the impossible, he had to stretch forth his hand. He did the works required to receive his healing.Through faith did they their works, for faith is the effectual sort; effecting change unto good works to the glorying of GOD alone.

peace friend

Danoh
August 9th, 2017, 08:05 AM
oatmeal, regarding your OP, in the Spoiler below...



In reply to a post on another thread, it became evident that it was high time that the difference between receiving the gift of salvation and doing something with it so as to actually see the immediate benefits of using that gift. The difference needs to be expounded. This post is a primer to a lifetime of learning.

Most certainly, receiving salvation is the first step in living a godly life well pleasing and worthy of God.

I Timothy 2:4 makes that clear as can be.

God's will is

1. that all men be saved.

2. that they come to the knowledge of the truth.

The word for knowledge in I Timothy 2:4 is not referring to simply being mentally aware of something but knowledge gained by experiencing something, in this case, the truth. (See John 8:32 for another similar use, it is not simply being aware of truth that sets men free, it is experiencing truth by living it, that sets men free.)

Coming to the knowledge of truth by experiencing it takes work.

It may take hard work to enjoy the immediate and presently available benefits our salvation.

Owning a bicycle and learning to ride it to receive the benefits of ownership are two vastly different activities. Our minds and bodies must be trained to learn the skills that it takes to ride a bicycle safely and efficaciously.

Having received the gift of salvation we must experience what salvation is to really know what it is. That takes work and action on our part and the learning of new skills. Like for instance, becoming spiritually minded instead of remaining carnally minded. see Romans 8

Receiving salvation is simply the first step in living the gift of eternal life/salvation/holy spirit. Romans 6:23

We must also know what this gift contains and what we are to do with it as God would have us use it.

As a bonus, we should consider that having a gift and using it are both involved in salvation, or wholeness.

To be saved means to be made whole.

We have all received gifts in our lifetime, it is only when we use those gifts that we truly benefit in the present in having those gifts.

Let me illustrate, just because we have a God given brain, does not mean we will wisely fill it and use it. Part of benefiting from having a brain is in its active use. Our brains actually develop as we fill it with knowledge and use it. It can physically and mentally develop towards evil or toward good depending how we choose to use it.

Likewise our bodies, we can abuse our bodies for evil or use our bodies for good. Romans 12:1

Salvation is received but it is also developed and strengthened if we use it according to God's word.

As we renew our minds to God's word, that is when we choose to think what God wants us to think, see Philippians 4:8;2:5, Romans 12:2..., our salvation becomes stronger in us in that it permeates our walk with God, ie, our lifestyle to live God's way, not the way of the world.

Once having received salvation, we can stay inert and stagnate or choose to dynamically involve ourselves in using God's gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit.

By choosing to live our salvation by renewing our minds, we receive more benefits of that salvation. We have the basic package but how we use it determines how much salvation is evidenced in our lives. In sense, we actually grow in salvation as we use it. Thus until Jesus Christ returns, I John 3:1-3, we can continue to appropriate more and more of the benefits of that salvation, a process that is unlimited for we will always have ways to improve.

This is where verses like Philippians 2:12 come in. We are to "work out" our salvation. We have it, but it lies dormant until we renew our minds and start working it, much like going to the gym to "work out" we become more healthy and whole as we "work out" our salvation just like working out doing physical exercise increases our health and vitality

...not a bad post on your part there, more or less - you brought out the Basic Principle.

Goethe noted something similar by his "to know, yet not to do; is not yet to know."

Still, it's Application will differ not only before; during; and after the Law, but also: under Grace.

Not a bad post.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

oatmeal
August 9th, 2017, 03:47 PM
The Holy Spirit is given to glorify Messiah. Those that have the Holy Spirit are obedient to His teaching.

And His teachings are profitable for us to choose to believe and thus obey

oatmeal
August 9th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Through faith did they their works, for faith is the effectual sort; effecting change unto good works to the glorying of GOD alone.

peace friend

Faith and believing are translated from the same Greek word essentially.

Tell me what the difference is between faith and believing.

I was taught that over 40 years ago and I have seen no reason to change my mind about that.

Briefly, we were given the measure of faith which is the faith of Jesus Christ, ie, his ability to get things done, thus we have been given what it takes to do the works of Jesus Christ.

How do we use that God given faith? By believing what scripture teaches us.

We believe the logos of God, we hold it in mind and act accordingly.

Faith is what God did for us.

Believing God is our responsible response to God's grace and mercy and love and light and the truth

We received that measure of faith when we met the requirements to receive salvation as stated in Romans 10:9-10

popsthebuilder
August 9th, 2017, 05:36 PM
Faith and believing are translated from the same Greek word essentially.

Tell me what the difference is between faith and believing.

I was taught that over 40 years ago and I have seen no reason to change my mind about that.

Briefly, we were given the measure of faith which is the faith of Jesus Christ, ie, his ability to get things done, thus we have been given what it takes to do the works of Jesus Christ.

How do we use that God given faith? By believing what scripture teaches us.

We believe the logos of God, we hold it in mind and act accordingly.

Faith is what God did for us.

Believing God is our responsible response to God's grace and mercy and love and light and the truth

We received that measure of faith when we met the requirements to receive salvation as stated in Romans 10:9-10Belief and faith are somewhat interchangeable.

Believing is living as if one believes.

Faith or belief is effectual and brings about further belief and faithfulness.

I think we are in agreement.

Were you trying to differentiate the two?

Excuse my missing your point please.

No offence intended.

peace

oatmeal
August 10th, 2017, 04:31 AM
Belief and faith are somewhat interchangeable.

Believing is living as if one believes.

Faith or belief is effectual and brings about further belief and faithfulness.

I think we are in agreement.

Were you trying to differentiate the two?

Excuse my missing your point please.

No offence intended.

peace

No offense taken, how do we learn anything?

Part of the process is to ask questions.

This brief list of scripture should help distinguish between the two.

Abraham believed God. Romans 4

We are justified by faith. Romans 5:1 How were we justified? by what we believed or by what Jesus Christ did for us? Romans 5:9 We were justified by his blood. A figure of speech, by his shed blood, his sufferings and death and eventual resurrection.

Our believing did not initiate our justification. Faith here is referring to what God did for us in Christ. Romans 5:8

When did faith come? Why did it have to come if it was always available?

Galatians 3:22-25

Faith is another name for the salvation that God in Christ made available to us to receive.

How do we receive it? By our believing, specifically, Romans 10:9-10

We have that measure of faith (what measure? it is the faith of Jesus Christ, what he did for us) we can believe to do the works of Jesus the anointed and greater.

Romans 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

John 14:12

If we believe, than all things are possible. Mark 9:23

Christians are never told to have more faith, but to believe (what is written.)

Like many English words, the Greek word has basically two meanings

Faith, which is what God gives to us.

And believing which is how we appropriate anything from God.

Of course, that does not mean that the translators translated consistently or accurately all the time.

Truster
August 11th, 2017, 01:45 AM
And His teachings are profitable for us to choose to believe and thus obey

Not of the will of man.

oatmeal
August 11th, 2017, 04:27 PM
Not of the will of man.

Receiving anything from God is dependent on the will of man.

God is always willing and able to keep his promises.

Question is, is man willing to believe God's promises?

To receive, we must choose to believe

Truster
August 11th, 2017, 10:14 PM
Receiving anything from God is dependent on the will of man.

God is always willing and able to keep his promises.

Question is, is man willing to believe God's promises?

To receive, we must choose to believe

An absolute lie.

oatmeal
August 12th, 2017, 06:35 AM
An absolute lie.

Have you told Jesus Christ that yet?

When are you going to correct him?



If you can believe, all things are possible to them that believe. Mark 9:23

When are you going to choose to believe?

or do you believe that Jesus Christ lied?

What was the response of the father in need?

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief"

I believe because I choose to do so.

After all, did Jesus correct the man and say, "you have no choice or free will in this matter, so stay out this"

Or did he instruct him that if you believe all things are possible to them that believe.

The father choose to believe what Jesus said and the father received of God by the ministry of Jesus Christ his son's deliverance.

When did you first believe on the lord Jesus Christ?

For that matter what does Philippians 4:13 say?

"I can do" Not God forces me to do against my will. Oh, look, you still cannot escape your will.

Truster
August 12th, 2017, 12:45 PM
Have you told Jesus Christ that yet?

When are you going to correct him?



If you can believe, all things are possible to them that believe. Mark 9:23

When are you going to choose to believe?

or do you believe that Jesus Christ lied?

What was the response of the father in need?

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief"

I believe because I choose to do so.

After all, did Jesus correct the man and say, "you have no choice or free will in this matter, so stay out this"

Or did he instruct him that if you believe all things are possible to them that believe.

The father choose to believe what Jesus said and the father received of God by the ministry of Jesus Christ his son's deliverance.

When did you first believe on the lord Jesus Christ?

For that matter what does Philippians 4:13 say?

"I can do" Not God forces me to do against my will. Oh, look, you still cannot escape your will.

You have scriptures but no understanding.

oatmeal
August 12th, 2017, 01:19 PM
You have scriptures but no understanding.
It would appear you have neither scripture nor understanding.

Choosing to believe is essential to receiving anything from God.

Truster
August 12th, 2017, 03:32 PM
It would appear you have neither scripture nor understanding.

Choosing to believe is essential to receiving anything from God.

There is a way that seems right to man but leads to death.

patrick jane
August 12th, 2017, 08:11 PM
Have you told Jesus Christ that yet?

When are you going to correct him?



If you can believe, all things are possible to them that believe. Mark 9:23

When are you going to choose to believe?

or do you believe that Jesus Christ lied?

What was the response of the father in need?

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief"

I believe because I choose to do so.

After all, did Jesus correct the man and say, "you have no choice or free will in this matter, so stay out this"

Or did he instruct him that if you believe all things are possible to them that believe.

The father choose to believe what Jesus said and the father received of God by the ministry of Jesus Christ his son's deliverance.

When did you first believe on the lord Jesus Christ?

For that matter what does Philippians 4:13 say?

"I can do" Not God forces me to do against my will. Oh, look, you still cannot escape your will.Yes. You just destroyed Truster and his fake system of salvation

Epoisses
August 12th, 2017, 08:33 PM
Have you told Jesus Christ that yet?

When are you going to correct him?



If you can believe, all things are possible to them that believe. Mark 9:23

When are you going to choose to believe?

or do you believe that Jesus Christ lied?

What was the response of the father in need?

"Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief"

I believe because I choose to do so.

After all, did Jesus correct the man and say, "you have no choice or free will in this matter, so stay out this"

Or did he instruct him that if you believe all things are possible to them that believe.

The father choose to believe what Jesus said and the father received of God by the ministry of Jesus Christ his son's deliverance.

When did you first believe on the lord Jesus Christ?

For that matter what does Philippians 4:13 say?

"I can do" Not God forces me to do against my will. Oh, look, you still cannot escape your will.

The will of man and genuine biblical faith are two different things. I can't choose to believe in Christ. What I can do is realize that I am a helpless and hopeless sinner and that all my choices based on will power are like ropes of sand. And in this state of repentance over my sin, God will give me the faith I could never produce on my own.

Epoisses
August 12th, 2017, 08:38 PM
Yes. You just destroyed Truster and his fake system of salvation

Truster is closer to truth than you and he is like light years away. So you're in a black hole somewhere.

patrick jane
August 12th, 2017, 08:41 PM
The will of man and genuine biblical faith are two different things. I can't choose to believe in Christ. What I can do is realize that I am a helpless and hopeless sinner and that all my choices based on will power are like ropes of sand. And in this state of repentance over my sin, God will give me the faith I could never produce on my own.You're a calvinist

Epoisses
August 12th, 2017, 08:44 PM
You're a calvinist

I was raised Lutheran but I doubt they would claim me anymore especially with my prophetic views. The Lutheran gospel is the happy place between the two ditches of Arminianism and Calvinism.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 07:26 AM
Yes. You just destroyed Truster and his fake system of salvation

Patrick,

I appreciate the sentiment for that was a tempting goal, but

I am concerned that people choose to rise up the greatness of God's word which clearly requires our willful activity to receive.

When people who have been misled realize that God is not ignoring them and their prayers, but is waiting for them to believe to act upon the logos of God, then God's might will be clearly evident in their lives.

RBBI
August 13th, 2017, 07:37 AM
In reply to the OP's original question: after initial salvation experience, what should come next is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, to begin the work of sanctification/justification in the believer. It is the power promised from on high, the gift giver, the Teacher, the One who lights our path. First comes called/salvation, then justified/sanctification, then glorified. Peace

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 07:45 AM
The will of man and genuine biblical faith are two different things. I can't choose to believe in Christ. What I can do is realize that I am a helpless and hopeless sinner and that all my choices based on will power are like ropes of sand. And in this state of repentance over my sin, God will give me the faith I could never produce on my own.

In one sense I agree with you, for neither you nor I nor any other "normal" person can believe to do the works that the man Jesus Christ alone could do.

If Noah could have done it, he would have.

If Samson could have, he would have.

If Abraham could have, he would have and right on down the line, but they could believe God's word to them which was that the seed of the woman would redeem mankind. Genesis 3:15 etc.

The gift of salvation was not available to them. But as Romans 4 tells us of Abraham, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.

They could only look forward to the accomplishment's of Jesus Christ, we can not only look back on them, but believe to receive the the gift of salvation

Righteousness is not just counted to us, it is given to us, it it ours. We have the righteousness of God. II Cor 5:21

Why? How? Because we believed God's word, we choose to believe to confess with our mouth the lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.

I did choose to believe and continue to choose to believe God's words, His written logos.

The reason I am typing this message is because I chose to share God's word as God requires of me and be a blessing to God's people. I choose to take the example of Jesus Christ's ministry and believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation like Jesus Christ did and share the word of reconciliation with people here on this website. II Corinthians 5:18-20

God's gift of salvation is received by our believing, not by our works of righteousness, for if we did the works to earn salvation, then we would not have needed either God or Jesus Christ to provide that gift for us.

We must distinguish between the believing works of Jesus Christ whose works earned the gift of salvation to and for those who would choose to believe God to receive that gift by doing Romans 10:9-10

One way I like to teach that is, "it is our job to do the possible, it is God's job to do the impossible"

As we believer to do what God instructs us to do, we allow God to do his part.

He does not force His goodness into our minds and hearts and lives though His goodness is all around us.

We must, as the father of the sick child of Mark 9 did, learn to believe God to receive from God

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 07:54 AM
In reply to the OP's original question: after initial salvation experience, what should come next is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, to begin the work of sanctification/justification in the believer. It is the power promised from on high, the gift giver, the Teacher, the One who lights our path. First comes called/salvation, then justified/sanctification, then glorified. Peace


Thanks for posting.

From what I have learned the gift of salvation is referred to in several ways in scripture. Each illustrating another facet of that costly gift to us.

It is referred to as being born again of seed incorruptible, the gift of salvation, the gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23 the gift from the Holy Spirit which is holy spirit, the baptism in holy spirit, the measure of faith given to us by God and others.

Within that gift package is included our rights as sons of God of which the major ones are our redemption, our justification, our righteousness, our sanctification and our ministry of reconciliation.

Just like a newborn baby, it has all the basics included, the baby must be grow up and mature to properly use all the benefits of being a live human being.

Even so when we were born again have all we need inside but we must learn and grow up and mature of and in God's word to utilize all the benefits of having God as our Father as sons of God. I John 3:1-3

That is, we must believe God's word to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 08:46 AM
In one sense I agree with you, for neither you nor I nor any other "normal" person can believe to do the works that the man Jesus Christ alone could do.

If Noah could have done it, he would have.

If Samson could have, he would have.

If Abraham could have, he would have and right on down the line, but they could believe God's word to them which was that the seed of the woman would redeem mankind. Genesis 3:15 etc.

The gift of salvation was not available to them. But as Romans 4 tells us of Abraham, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.

They could only look forward to the accomplishment's of Jesus Christ, we can not only look back on them, but believe to receive the the gift of salvation

Righteousness is not just counted to us, it is given to us, it it ours. We have the righteousness of God. II Cor 5:21

Why? How? Because we believed God's word, we choose to believe to confess with our mouth the lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.

I did choose to believe and continue to choose to believe God's words, His written logos.

The reason I am typing this message is because I chose to share God's word as God requires of me and be a blessing to God's people. I choose to take the example of Jesus Christ's ministry and believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation like Jesus Christ did and share the word of reconciliation with people here on this website. II Corinthians 5:18-20

God's gift of salvation is received by our believing, not by our works of righteousness, for if we did the works to earn salvation, then we would not have needed either God or Jesus Christ to provide that gift for us.

We must distinguish between the believing works of Jesus Christ whose works earned the gift of salvation to and for those who would choose to believe God to receive that gift by doing Romans 10:9-10

One way I like to teach that is, "it is our job to do the possible, it is God's job to do the impossible"

As we believer to do what God instructs us to do, we allow God to do his part.

He does not force His goodness into our minds and hearts and lives though His goodness is all around us.

We must, as the father of the sick child of Mark 9 did, learn to believe God to receive from God

Are you kidding?

Abel had to do right.

Noah had to obey, he had to do right.

Abraham had to obey and do right.

What do you mean it is not by what we do?

When Paul says not of works of righteousness, he is NOT talking about how we do not have to obey!

Paul is speaking of how we do not have to do the ceremonial/purification works.

How do you ever get that it has nothing to do with what we do?

Don't misunderstand Paul.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Abraham obeyed God and it is what saved him. Circumcision began with Abraham and it is the seal of the purification works that later came with Moses; BUT, Abraham OBEYED BEFOREHAND and that is WHY he was saved:

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Job had to do right:

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...


David had to do right:

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Samson had to go back to doing right.
I can give many scriptures that prove we have to obey God and it is NOT just about believing alone.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 09:05 AM
Are you kidding?

Abel had to do right.

Noah had to obey, he had to do right.

Abraham had to obey and do right.

What do you mean it is not by what we do?

When Paul says not of works of righteousness, he is NOT talking about how we do not have to obey!

Paul is speaking of how we do not have to do the ceremonial/purification works.

How do you ever get that it has nothing to do with what we do?

Don't misunderstand Paul.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Abraham obeyed God and it is what saved him. Circumcision began with Abraham and it is the seal of the purification works that later came with Moses; BUT, Abraham OBEYED BEFOREHAND and that is WHY he was saved:

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Noah had to do right:

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...


David had to do right:

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Samson had to go back to doing right.
I can give many scriptures that prove we have to obey God and it is NOT just about believing alone.

Maybe I did not make the distinction between those before the age of grace and those in the age of grace.

Noah was not saved because he sought to do wrong in the sight of God, but because he chose to do what is right in the sight of God to the best of his ability.

He was not only saved from the flood, with his family and the animals, but had a harmonious relationship with God because of his obedience to God.

Do you believe Noah will be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.

He did not receive the gift of salvation for that was not yet made available because Jesus Christ did not exist yet, let alone did the works that God had laid out for him. Namely our salvation and redemption.

Moses was consistent in his believing obedience to God with a few exceptions. But he was faithful, not perfect, but faithful. He foretold of the prophet that would be like unto himself, but he was not that prophet.

Moses could believe and obey God and like Abraham, that would be counted to him for righteousness, but he did not receive salvation as a gift, but as a reward for faithfulness. Do you believe he shall be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.

How about Jeremiah? or David? Or Hezekiah? will they be in the resurrection of the just?

They did not receive salvation as a gift but as the result of their faithfulness to God.

We did not have to do works to earn salvation, because of the works of Jesus Christ we receive the gift of salvation not because of faithfulness in works to God, but simply because we met the two requirements given in Romans 10:9-10

We did not earn that gift, we simply received it.

The point of this thread, just to review, is that God expects us to live according to his written logos even though we have received the gift of salvation. Just like any earthly father would, God expects us to do the works that cause us to mature in Christ, not remain spoonfed and in diapers all our lives.

It takes works on our part to learn to live a Christ like life.

Surely you have noticed that!

Haven't you?

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:14 AM
Maybe I did not make the distinction between those before the age of grace and those in the age of grace.

Noah was not saved because he sought to do wrong in the sight of God, but because he chose to do what is right in the sight of God to the best of his ability.

He was not only saved from the flood, with his family and the animals, but had a harmonious relationship with God because of his obedience to God.

Do you believe Noah will be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.

He did not receive the gift of salvation for that was not yet made available because Jesus Christ did not exist yet, let alone did the works that God had laid out for him. Namely our salvation and redemption.

Moses was consistent in his believing obedience to God with a few exceptions. But he was faithful, not perfect, but faithful. He foretold of the prophet that would be like unto himself, but he was not that prophet.

Moses could believe and obey God and like Abraham, that would be counted to him for righteousness, but he did not receive salvation as a gift, but as a reward for faithfulness. Do you believe he shall be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.

How about Jeremiah? or David? Or Hezekiah? will they be in the resurrection of the just?

They did not receive salvation as a gift but as the result of their faithfulness to God.

We did not have to do works to earn salvation, because of the works of Jesus Christ we receive the gift of salvation not because of faithfulness in works to God, but simply because we met the two requirements given in Romans 10:9-10

We did not earn that gift, we simply received it.

The point of this thread, just to review, is that God expects us to live according to his written logos even though we have received the gift of salvation. Just like any earthly father would, God expects us to do the works that cause us to mature in Christ, not remain spoonfed and in diapers all our lives.

It takes works on our part to learn to live a Christ like life.

Surely you have noticed that!

Haven't you?

All you did was just repeat what I already disproved.

They received the gift of salvation because they obeyed God.

God gives His gift to those who obey Him.

You just can't separate the ceremonial works from regular obeying, can you.

God chooses to save those who believe and obey Him.

That is to whom God gives His gift to.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:17 AM
Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job...they were saved but were not yet made perfect until Jesus came and shed his blood on the cross, so that the righteous can be made perfect.

Nowhere anywhere is there room in the Truth to say it isn't about what they did.

That is a teaching from false doctrines, from those who misunderstand Paul and the purification/ceremonial works.

Nowhere anywhere are we told anyone is saved by believing alone.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:19 AM
Who are the cloud of witnesses! Come to your senses people.

The cloud of witnesses were those who were righteous and obeyed God before Jesus came to earth.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 09:33 AM
All you did was just repeat what I already disproved.

They received the gift of salvation because they obeyed God.

God gives His gift to those who obey Him.

You just can't separate the ceremonial works from regular obeying, can you.

God chooses to save those who believe and obey Him.

That is to whom God gives His gift to.


Thank you for repeating what I said.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:35 AM
Thank you for repeating what I said.

You didn't really say that.

You said it had nothing to do with what they did.

It has everything to do with what we do.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 10:23 AM
You didn't really say that.

You said it had nothing to do with what they did.

It has everything to do with what we do.

There is a difference between the gift of salvation that Jesus Christ earned for us and the faithful believing and obedience that the pre age of grace believers had to do to.

Salvation is now a gift, it was not in pre age of grace times.

The gift of salvation was not earned by us, if it was it would be wages for works, not a gift.

Even though it is now a gift, not of works, we still have to receive that gift. If a friend hands you a costly gift, you still have to do the work of holding out your hands to receive it, though you did not earn that gift.

We do the easy part, God in Christ did the heavy lifting.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 01:01 PM
There is a difference between the gift of salvation that Jesus Christ earned for us and the faithful believing and obedience that the pre age of grace believers had to do to.

Salvation is now a gift, it was not in pre age of grace times.
In the past, the people HAD TO OBEY GOD, even the ceremonial works.




The gift of salvation was not earned by us, if it was it would be wages for works, not a gift.
That is your downfall.

You keep including obedience to all kinds of works.




It is a gift to those who OBEY, as always it is a gift to those who obey.

Not of ceremonial works.

We must still obey but we no longer have to do ceremonial works.



Even though it is now a gift, not of works,

God gives the gift to those who OBEY. They can no longer get it because they got circumcised and did other things, the ceremonial works of the law.

In fact, if you do ceremonial works you are now DISOBEYING.



we still have to receive that gift. If a friend hands you a costly gift, you still have to do the work of holding out your hands to receive it, though you did not earn that gift.
You have to do MORE than hold out your hand, you have to first BE A FRIEND.

Jesus says we are friends if we obey.

John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command.


We do the easy part, God in Christ did the heavy lifting.

Obeying is easy, light, and not burdensome, but we still have to OBEY.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 03:34 PM
In the past, the people HAD TO OBEY GOD, even the ceremonial works.


That is your downfall.

You keep including obedience to all kinds of works.



It is a gift to those who OBEY, as always it is a gift to those who obey.

Not of ceremonial works.

We must still obey but we no longer have to do ceremonial works.



God gives the gift to those who OBEY. They can no longer get it because they got circumcised and did other things, the ceremonial works of the law.

In fact, if you do ceremonial works you are now DISOBEYING.


You have to do MORE than hold out your hand, you have to first BE A FRIEND.

Jesus says we are friends if we obey.

John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command.



Obeying is easy, light, and not burdensome, but we still have to OBEY.

Obedience is required to receive anything from God.

or as the saying goes,"when all else fails, read the instructions"

In order to receive the gift of salvation we have to obey Romans 10:9-10

Believing is synonymous with obedience, there may be nuances of difference but the result is the same.

When we believe we receive of God, when we obey we receive of God.

Obedience has the nuance of serving God, but it takes believing to serve God.

I am still wondering why you introduced the concept of ceremonial works since I certainly did not.

Confessing with the mouth the lord Jesus and believing in the heart that God raised him from the dead is certainly not ceremonial.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 06:00 PM
Obedience is required to receive anything from God.

or as the saying goes,"when all else fails, read the instructions"

In order to receive the gift of salvation we have to obey Romans 10:9-10

Believing is synonymous with obedience, there may be nuances of difference but the result is the same.

When we believe we receive of God, when we obey we receive of God.

Obedience has the nuance of serving God, but it takes believing to serve God.

I am still wondering why you introduced the concept of ceremonial works since I certainly did not.

Confessing with the mouth the lord Jesus and believing in the heart that God raised him from the dead is certainly not ceremonial.

You brought up the ceremonial works when you brought up Paul saying not of by works!

Until you get that, you teach confusion.

No one is rewarded for just believing.

We have to believe and obey.

Not of by works is the ceremonial works of the law.

That is the works that no longer save.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 06:02 PM
Not of by works = no ceremonial works.

A gift = no ceremonial works.

Faith alone = dead faith.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM
You brought up the ceremonial works when you brought up Paul saying not of by works!

Until you get that, you teach confusion.

No one is rewarded for just believing.

We have to believe and obey.

Not of by works is the ceremonial works of the law.

That is the works that no longer save.

Show me where Paul says ceremonial works!

Everyone is rewarded for believing.

Read Mark 9:23

Read about Abraham in Romans 4

Read Hebrews 11 (where the word "faith" erroneously, the word is believing.

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 06:53 PM
Not of by works = no ceremonial works.

A gift = no ceremonial works.

Faith alone = dead faith.

a gift to you is not a gift if any of your works paid for it.

whether ceremonial or otherwise

oatmeal
August 13th, 2017, 06:54 PM
Back to the topic of the thread.

What does God expect of us after we have received the gift of salvation?

We are to do the works that God created us in Christ Jesus to do

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 08:57 PM
a gift to you is not a gift if any of your works paid for it.

whether ceremonial or otherwise

Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses to save those who obey. See John 14:23, and Acts 5:32.

Grace is that a friend of God's does not have to offer sacrifices anymore just to be near His Spirit, for His friend merely has to believe that Jesus' blood washes him clean of the sins he repents of, and he becomes the temple.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:09 PM
Back to the topic of the thread.

What does God expect of us after we have received the gift of salvation?

We are to do the works that God created us in Christ Jesus to do

You can't shame me for replying to something you said in this thread.

God's Truth
August 13th, 2017, 09:21 PM
Show me where Paul says ceremonial works!
Paul says WORKS OF THE LAW. The works of the law are ceremonial works.

Paul doesn't ever say faith alone without any obedience.

Romans 3:2 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

He doesn't say 'law'.

He doesn't say 'obedience'.

Think about it more carefully.




Everyone is rewarded for believing.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.




Read Mark 9:23

Jesus wasn't speaking about dead faith.

All the scriptures where Jesus says to obey, they do not get nullified by the scriptures that say believe.


Read about Abraham in Romans 4

Read Hebrews 11 (where the word "faith" erroneously, the word is believing.

Abraham obeyed. So it isn't about Abraham believing and not obeying.

It is about Abraham before and after the ceremonial work of CIRCUMCISION.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 12:59 AM
You can't shame me for replying to something you said in this thread.

I am not, if you are being shamed it is not originating from me.

You want to talk about salvation, that is not what this thread is about

It is about God's expectations of us after we have received the gift of salvation.

If you wish to discuss what you and I seem to actually agree on, well, you don't need me to give you permission to start a thread on that topic.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 01:06 AM
Paul says WORKS OF THE LAW. The works of the law are ceremonial works.

Paul doesn't ever say faith alone without any obedience.

Romans 3:2 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

He doesn't say 'law'.

He doesn't say 'obedience'.

Think about it more carefully.



Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.



Jesus wasn't speaking about dead faith.

All the scriptures where Jesus says to obey, they do not get nullified by the scriptures that say believe.


Abraham obeyed. So it isn't about Abraham believing and not obeying.

It is about Abraham before and after the ceremonial work of CIRCUMCISION.

The circumcision is an act of believing on the part of Abraham and his progeny.

If it was done ceremoniously then it missed the point.

God refers to having the heart circumcised. Ie, sensitive to God's words, his written word, the logos.

The works of the law include keep the feasts, obeying all the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances...that God had written down for the benefit of the children of Israel directly and us indirectly, for we are not under the law for righteousness.

Executing homosexuals, rapists, idolaters, kidnappers, etc was not a mere ceremony, it was one of the ways to keep the nation of Israel spiritually clean.

Those who simply went through the motions of keeping the law ie, ceremoniously, were not believing, they were going through the motions.

I am still waiting for you to show me where Paul says "ceremonial works"

We were saved by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you telling me that you were saved by doing non ceremonial works?

Would you care to list those non ceremonial works in the law that you kept and by which you saved yourself?

I did not do any works of the law to earn salvation, I met the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10 and I was given the gift of salvation.

Now, have freely received God's gift of salvation to me, I am discussing what God expects of me.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 04:40 AM
One wonderful verse that tells us what God expects of us is Ephesians 6:10

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might"

This is not optional, it is a commandment and from a believing point of view a promise of God that we can be strong in Him.

We have no excuse ever to be weak in the Lord.

We can always be strong in the Lord in any of life's challenges including the wiles of the Devil.

We can stand strong against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 10:05 AM
I am not, if you are being shamed it is not originating from me.
Don't you even know what you do? You just got through saying to get back on topic. My posting did not throw this thread of topic. How ignorant for you to make it into something that it is not. I don't feel ashamed by you, so why did you say if I am being shamed? Do you really think the Holy Spirit is your private accomplice to your error?



You want to talk about salvation, that is not what this thread is about

It is about God's expectations of us after we have received the gift of salvation.
That is about salvation.



If you wish to discuss what you and I seem to actually agree on, well, you don't need me to give you permission to start a thread on that topic.

I am talking about what is expected of us after we are saved. How you ever get that is not about salvation is beyond me.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 10:22 AM
The circumcision is an act of believing on the part of Abraham and his progeny.

If it was done ceremoniously then it missed the point.
Are you kidding? Circumcision is a ceremonial act.



God refers to having the heart circumcised. Ie, sensitive to God's words, his written word, the logos.
God told Abraham to get circumcised in the flesh.



The works of the law include keep the feasts, obeying all the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances...that God had written down for the benefit of the children of Israel directly and us indirectly, for we are not under the law for righteousness.
That came after Abraham.
Circumcision in the flesh began with Abraham and it is the seal of the old law and the sign of the covenant.



Executing homosexuals, rapists, idolaters, kidnappers, etc was not a mere ceremony, it was one of the ways to keep the nation of Israel spiritually clean.
Right, those things are not the WORKS OF THE LAW. Those things are things all must obey.



Those who simply went through the motions of keeping the law ie, ceremoniously, were not believing, they were going through the motions.

I am still waiting for you to show me where Paul says "ceremonial works"
That is what works of the law is, ceremonial works.
I gave you scripture where Paul says not of works of the law.

You need to show where Paul says we are saved by believing and not obeying.

Show it now or concede.

Show one instance anywhere ever where Paul or anyone rebukes someone for obeying God for any reason.
Show that there is a wrong time to obey God.
Show if you happen to obey Jesus to be saved, such as repent of your sins, show where you have added a work and are now condemned.



We were saved by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast.
The boasting is in the ceremonial works that no longer save.

The Jews used to be able to boast in the ceremonial works.

Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.



Are you telling me that you were saved by doing non ceremonial works?
People are only saved by believing and obeying Jesus. We no longer have to do ceremonial works because Jesus cleans us.



Would you care to list those non ceremonial works in the law that you kept and by which you saved yourself?
You want to be a teacher but you don't understand much do you. I have been explaining how the ceremonial works are the works that no longer save and you ask which ceremonial works saved me.
You want to be a preacher of truth and you can't even tell the truth about what I said.


I did not do any works of the law to earn salvation, I met the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10 and I was given the gift of salvation.
What do you think those scriptures say you do not have to do? What do they say you have to do?



Now, have freely received God's gift of salvation to me, I am discussing what God expects of me.

God expects you to continue to obey. Would you like the scriptures?

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 10:35 AM
We are saved when we confess our sins and call on Jesus' name. However, after being saved, we must live up to what has already been given us.

2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election.

Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

Colossians 1:10
so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

Colossians 2:6
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him,

1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:1
As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 10:37 AM
Train ourselves. Work out our salvation.

Luke 6:40
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

1 Corinthians 9:25
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

1 Timothy 4:7, 8
Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Titus 2:4
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 05:25 PM
Train ourselves. Work out our salvation.

Luke 6:40
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

1 Corinthians 9:25
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

1 Timothy 4:7, 8
Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Titus 2:4
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Do you have a point to make?

What is it that you believe?

If you wish to argue, I am not interested.

What is your point?

Where are you going with all this?

Everyone who has received the gift of salvation did so by meeting the tow requirements of Romans 10:9-10

Now that we have been saved God expects us to come to the knowledge of the truth, to live that salvation out of love, in believing looking forward to the hope of Christ's return.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 06:55 PM
Do you have a point to make?

What is it that you believe?

If you wish to argue, I am not interested.

What is your point?

Where are you going with all this?

Everyone who has received the gift of salvation did so by meeting the tow requirements of Romans 10:9-10

Now that we have been saved God expects us to come to the knowledge of the truth, to live that salvation out of love, in believing looking forward to the hope of Christ's return.

Why are you hostile? Don't you like the scriptures that tell us what to do after we are saved?

KingdomRose
August 14th, 2017, 07:23 PM
No one "receives" salvation until the end of the age when Jesus comes to end all suffering and death. He said:

"The one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (Matt.24:13, NASB)


No one is saved eternally until the end. It's amazing how many people ignore those words. It takes effort. It is real work, and that is why Paul said we must "put on the complete suit of armor from God" to battle Satan and this wicked world under his control.

Ephesians 6:10-18
I John 5:19

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 07:30 PM
No one "receives" salvation until the end of the age when Jesus comes to end all suffering and death. He said:

"The one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (Matt.24:13, NASB)


No one is saved eternally until the end. It's amazing how many people ignore those words. It takes effort. It is real work, and that is why Paul said we must "put on the complete suit of armor from God" to battle Satan and this wicked world under his control.

Ephesians 6:10-18
I John 5:19

What don't you get about believing all the scriptures? We cannot put even one aside.

We are saved now and must stand firm till the end and be saved then too.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 07:36 PM
No one "receives" salvation until the end of the age when Jesus comes to end all suffering and death. He said:

"The one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (Matt.24:13, NASB)


No one is saved eternally until the end. It's amazing how many people ignore those words. It takes effort. It is real work, and that is why Paul said we must "put on the complete suit of armor from God" to battle Satan and this wicked world under his control.

Ephesians 6:10-18
I John 5:19


Unless one distinguishes between the time of Jesus' work in progress, the gospels, and the time period after his work was accomplished, this age of grace, we will live in confusion about what is the past and present regarding receiving salvation.

The accomplished works of Jesus Christ changed the rules from the law based gospels to the grace based epistles.

oatmeal
August 14th, 2017, 07:41 PM
Why are you hostile? Don't you like the scriptures that tell us what to do after we are saved?

Excuse me?

Am I being hostile?

Yes, this thread is about what we are to do after we have received salvation, we are to use it according the instructions of God, thus developing the gift of salvation that God gave to us.

There is only one gift of salvation.

However, having received the gift we are required to use it, to "work it out"

We do not want it to ignore it we want to make full use of it.

How? By doing what God tells to do to use it.

SabathMoon
August 14th, 2017, 07:43 PM
Why are you hostile? Don't you like the scriptures that tell us what to do after we are saved?
Stop wasting space, and do something else. Like shut up. You don't listen, and we are supposed to listen to you.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 07:55 PM
Excuse me?

Am I being hostile?

Yes, this thread is about what we are to do after we have received salvation, we are to use it according the instructions of God, thus developing the gift of salvation that God gave to us.

There is only one gift of salvation.

However, having received the gift we are required to use it, to "work it out"

We do not want it to ignore it we want to make full use of it.

How? By doing what God tells to do to use it.

I gave scriptures that tell us what to do.

Why do you have a problem with that?

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 07:57 PM
Stop wasting space, and do something else. Like shut up. You don't listen, and we are supposed to listen to you.

This is a discussion site about scriptures and doctrines, not what you think about me.

SabathMoon
August 14th, 2017, 08:03 PM
This is a discussion site about scriptures and doctrines, not what you think about me.But you are unrighteous, and unworthy anyone's time.

God's Truth
August 14th, 2017, 10:13 PM
But you are unrighteous, and unworthy anyone's time.

I couldn't care any less what you think of me.

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 04:17 AM
Stop wasting space, and do something else. Like shut up. You don't listen, and we are supposed to listen to you.

Wow, you have run into this guy before! You nailed it.

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 04:19 AM
I gave scriptures that tell us what to do.

Why do you have a problem with that?

I do not have a problem with that, I appreciate that.

Nice to see that someone who has received the gift of salvation is taking that gift seriously and is willing to put it to use.

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 04:42 AM
Are you kidding?

Abel had to do right.

Noah had to obey, he had to do right.

Abraham had to obey and do right.

What do you mean it is not by what we do?

When Paul says not of works of righteousness, he is NOT talking about how we do not have to obey!

Paul is speaking of how we do not have to do the ceremonial/purification works.

How do you ever get that it has nothing to do with what we do?

Don't misunderstand Paul.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Abraham obeyed God and it is what saved him. Circumcision began with Abraham and it is the seal of the purification works that later came with Moses; BUT, Abraham OBEYED BEFOREHAND and that is WHY he was saved:

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Job had to do right:

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...


David had to do right:

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Samson had to go back to doing right.
I can give many scriptures that prove we have to obey God and it is NOT just about believing alone.

No, I am not kidding. Why would you assume I am kidding.

Noah, Abraham, Esther, Ruth... were men and women of God who lived rightly in God's sight but not so much as to pay for their sins let alone the sins of the world like Jesus Christ alone could do.

All Adam's and Eve's progeny have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Jesus Christ is not included in that because God is his father and Mary his mother, therefore, he is different, outside that group.

Jesus Christ was the only one who could have paid the price, for he alone was sinless after A and E's errors.

If you believe, literally believe, then action upon that belief will be evident.

Believing is action, that action includes obedience to God's written logos and to revelation given.

There are many different acts of believing that we are to do.

Ephesians 4:32, being kind, forgiving, tenderhearted.

I Corinthians 14:5 speaking in tongues.

Acts 4:34-35 selling unneeded earthly possessions and giving the proceeds to the ministry so that work is well funded.

I Cor 10:13 Escaping temptation

Romans 13 being subject to the rulers in the church that God ordained. Referring to the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors teachers and others like helps and the like

Ministering reconciliation to those who need reconciling. II Cor 5:18-20

All those require that we believe in order to live those things

Believing is not just mentally assenting, it is taking action upon the truths in scripture.

SabathMoon
August 15th, 2017, 09:06 AM
I couldn't care any less what you think of me.Wow, I don't care what you think of me either. amazing.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:17 AM
Wow, I don't care what you think of me either. amazing.

Then why do you keep giving your worthless opinions about me?

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:18 AM
No, I am not kidding. Why would you assume I am kidding.

Noah, Abraham, Esther, Ruth... were men and women of God who lived rightly in God's sight but not so much as to pay for their sins let alone the sins of the world like Jesus Christ alone could do.

All Adam's and Eve's progeny have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Jesus Christ is not included in that because God is his father and Mary his mother, therefore, he is different, outside that group.

Jesus Christ was the only one who could have paid the price, for he alone was sinless after A and E's errors.

If you believe, literally believe, then action upon that belief will be evident.

Believing is action, that action includes obedience to God's written logos and to revelation given.

There are many different acts of believing that we are to do.

Ephesians 4:32, being kind, forgiving, tenderhearted.

I Corinthians 14:5 speaking in tongues.

Acts 4:34-35 selling unneeded earthly possessions and giving the proceeds to the ministry so that work is well funded.

I Cor 10:13 Escaping temptation

Romans 13 being subject to the rulers in the church that God ordained. Referring to the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors teachers and others like helps and the like

Ministering reconciliation to those who need reconciling. II Cor 5:18-20

All those require that we believe in order to live those things

Believing is not just mentally assenting, it is taking action upon the truths in scripture.

Those righteous people where FAVORED by God because they obeyed Him.

Go think about it some more.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:20 AM
I do not have a problem with that, I appreciate that.

Nice to see that someone who has received the gift of salvation is taking that gift seriously and is willing to put it to use.

That sounds good and encouraging, but then why are you going against me after I posted those scriptures?

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:22 AM
What don't you get about believing all the scriptures? We cannot put even one aside.

We are saved now and must stand firm till the end and be saved then too.

YOU are putting scriptures aside. Why do you ignore what Jesus said at Matthew 24:13? You said, "We cannot put even one [scripture] aside." Why are YOU?

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:22 AM
Wow, you have run into this guy before! You nailed it.

You think others slandering me is good how?

You are not living through God when you speak against me like that.

You hate me because I went against nowadays tongue speaking. So now you take any opportunity you can get to encourage others to slander me.

You are not a righteous person.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:25 AM
YOU are putting scriptures aside. Why do you ignore what Jesus said at Matthew 24:13? You said, "We cannot put even one [scripture] aside." Why are YOU?

How do you ever get that I put that scripture aside when I said we must keep obeying to be saved in the end? I gave scripture that PROVES we can be SAVED NOW and we can be saved in the end.

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:27 AM
Unless one distinguishes between the time of Jesus' work in progress, the gospels, and the time period after his work was accomplished, this age of grace, we will live in confusion about what is the past and present regarding receiving salvation.

The accomplished works of Jesus Christ changed the rules from the law based gospels to the grace based epistles.

So everything Jesus said in the Gospels is null and void? You've got to be kidding! He said we have to endure to the END. We haven't reached the "end" yet! Or do you think we have? I guess I missed Jesus coming back at Armageddon.:hammer:

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:36 AM
How do you ever get that I put that scripture aside when I said we must keep obeying to be saved in the end? I gave scripture that PROVES we can be SAVED NOW and we can be saved in the end.

You are an imbecile. If Jesus said we must ENDURE until the end, then we can't be SAVED until the end! There is nothing final about being saved today. We are saved SO FAR. But we have to KEEP ON enduring, just as Paul said in Colossians 1:21-23:

"Indeed, you who were once alienated and enemies because your minds were on the works that were wicked, He now has again reconciled by means of that one's fleshly body through his death, in order to present you holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before Him, provided, of course, that you CONTINUE in the faith,
established on the foundation and steadfast and NOT BEING SHIFTED AWAY from the hope of that good news which you heard..."

Got it? It is possible to be shifted away from salvation, if we don't CONTINUE to endure.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:38 AM
You are an imbecile. If Jesus said we must ENDURE until the end, then we can't be SAVED until the end! There is nothing final about being saved today. We are saved SO FAR. But we have to KEEP ON enduring, just as Paul said in Colossians 1:21-23:

"Indeed, you who were once alienated and enemies because your minds were on the works that were wicked, He now has again reconciled by means of that one's fleshly body through his death, in order to present you holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before Him, provided, of course, that you CONTINUE in the faith,
established on the foundation and steadfast and NOT BEING SHIFTED AWAY from the hope of that good news which you heard..."

Got it? It is possible to be shifted away from salvation, if we don't CONTINUE to endure.

You are EXACTLY what you falsely claim I am.

I gave you scriptures that say we are saved NOW and must keep obeying to be saved in the END.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:41 AM
We can be saved now, and the saved must hold firm until the end so that they will be saved.


Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Being Saved


1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Will be saved



Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:43 AM
You are EXACTLY what you falsely claim I am.

I gave you scriptures that say we are saved NOW and must keep obeying to be saved in the END.

I think that Jesus was referring to the very end when he said we must keep enduring. THEN we can have eternal salvation. If we don't continue enduring, like Paul said, we can lose our salvation that we had up to this point. Do you dismiss the Colossians verses and also Hebrews 6:4-6 & Hebrews 10:26-29?

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 10:44 AM
You are an imbecile.


Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:45 AM
We can be saved now, and the saved must hold firm until the end so that they will be saved.


Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Being Saved


1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Will be saved



Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Ah, now we're talking. Very good. No one should disagree with THAT.:chuckle:

KingdomRose
August 15th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

True. I am also an imbecile. But I know what the truth is.

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 06:07 PM
Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

You are being hostile aren't you?

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 06:13 PM
We can be saved now, and the saved must hold firm until the end so that they will be saved.


Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Being Saved


1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Will be saved



Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.


After we have received the gift of salvation, it is our job to come to the knowledge of the truth. I Timothy 2:4

The knowledge of the truth is the rightly divided word of truth. II Timothy 2:15

If we intermingle truths that do not apply to us with truths that do apply to us, we are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

The gospels are about Jesus Christ's work in progress in his earthly ministry including his ascension.

Those truths apply to those living in the gospel period when Jesus was on this earth and his works were not yet completed nor fulfilled.

If we want to learn what those accomplished works did for us, we have to read Paul's epistles, Romans through Thessalonians

There we find out what Jesus Christ accomplished for us and what our loving response should be.

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 06:19 PM
So everything Jesus said in the Gospels is null and void? You've got to be kidding! He said we have to endure to the END. We haven't reached the "end" yet! Or do you think we have? I guess I missed Jesus coming back at Armageddon.:hammer:

Did I say that?

No, I did not.

Is the commandment given to Adam and Eve about not eating that fruit apply to us directly?

No, we do not live in the garden of Eden, and have no access whatsoever to the garden of Eden.

However, the underlying principle of believing God and obeying His commandments is still true.

Are you subject to the law of Moses for righteousness?

No, you are not, Galatians 2:21

Because of the works of Jesus Christ, the righteousness of God was given to us. II Corinthians 5:21, I Corinthians 1:30, it was made unto us

Are we to learn from the gospels, yes, we can learn from every jot and tittle of the gospels and all the books previous to them.

But they are not directed to us, Paul's epistles, Romans through Thessalonians are directed to us

The books and passages about times before the day of Pentecost are for our learning Romans 15:4

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 06:24 PM
You think others slandering me is good how?

You are not living through God when you speak against me like that.

You hate me because I went against nowadays tongue speaking. So now you take any opportunity you can get to encourage others to slander me.

You are not a righteous person.

Your own self righteous attitude does you in. We merely state the obvious.

You can list many scriptures, good for you.

However, you have much to learn about humility and meekness and the rightly divided word of truth.

If you want to learn it is available for all who hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled.

That your username is "God's truth" is revealing.

No one including Jesus Christ knows all that God knows, nor has the power that the Father has. Acts 1:7

I Peter 5:5

oatmeal
August 15th, 2017, 06:27 PM
That sounds good and encouraging, but then why are you going against me after I posted those scriptures?

You started out your first post in this thread with "Are you kidding?"

No, I am not kidding

You immediately attacked me

So I immediately put my defenses up and countered.

You want to me humble and meek and gentle on this thread as I have been, I welcome you with open arms, but if you are going to immediately attack me, well, that is your problem

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 08:38 PM
You are being hostile aren't you?

No I am not.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 08:40 PM
After we have received the gift of salvation, it is our job to come to the knowledge of the truth. I Timothy 2:4

The knowledge of the truth is the rightly divided word of truth. II Timothy 2:15

If we intermingle truths that do not apply to us with truths that do apply to us, we are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

The gospels are about Jesus Christ's work in progress in his earthly ministry including his ascension.

Those truths apply to those living in the gospel period when Jesus was on this earth and his works were not yet completed nor fulfilled.

If we want to learn what those accomplished works did for us, we have to read Paul's epistles, Romans through Thessalonians

There we find out what Jesus Christ accomplished for us and what our loving response should be.

So what is your point? Are you agreeing with me or not?