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Robert Pate
June 12th, 2017, 03:55 PM
Before God created the heavens and the earth he knew that it would be corrupted by Satan. God also knew that the crown of his creation (Adam) would sin against him and cause the fall of all of humanity. Adam's sin was no surprise to God. It was God's plan from the foundation of the world that Jesus would be the savior and would atone for the sins of the whole world, Revelation 13:8.

It is not given to us to understand all that was in God's mind in regards to Satan and God's creation. It appears that it was made known in heaven that God was going to create a race of people that the angels in heaven would be subject to. This apparently led to a war in heaven, Revelation 12:7-9. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth. They are still here today. If you don't think so listen to the news. Jesus dealt with them many times.

God's ways are not our ways. God doesn't see things the same way that we do, Isaiah 55:8,9. God sees everything at once, from the beginning to the end. Nor is God bound by time, space or matter. This is why the scripture says,

"But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" Galatians 4:4.

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law. Jesus knew the law simply because he was God's law incarnate in human flesh. This is why Paul wrote,

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21.

Jesus was the epitome of God's law. God said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17. Jesus is perfect God and perfect man in one person. He had to be perfect because God required a perfect sacrifice for the sins of man. Jesus comes into the world as God's new Adam and our new humanity. We become new creations in Jesus Christ when we by faith receive God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for us by Jesus Christ.

"If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation: old things are passed away: behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God and his Son Jesus Christ like new things, a new heaven, a new earth and we as new creations in Jesus Christ, Revelation 21:1. The old creation and the old Adamic humanity have been put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. Jesus Christ is God's new creation and his new humanity. As far as God is concerned, sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. God now sees all things in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This what Paul meant when he told the Colossians that were listening to the traditions of men that they "Were complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10. If you are complete in Jesus Christ then you really don't need anything else then do you?

God's purpose in Jesus Christ has been totally and completely realized in his Son Jesus Christ. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:6. The sins of the world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. We can now stand before God as complete in his Son Jesus Christ. What more could we want?

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 06:09 PM
The law has been fulfilled and abolished


It would have been sin for anyone to add to or subtract from the Father's law.

Had Jesus abolished the Father's law he would not have been raised from the dead.

Death is the penalty for sin.

Epoisses
June 12th, 2017, 07:31 PM
It would have been sin for anyone to add to or subtract from the Father's law.

Had Jesus abolished the Father's law he would not have been raised from the dead.

Death is the penalty for sin.

God's law goes much deeper than two blocks of stone! Jesus said if we have hate or lust in our heart we are breaking the law before we even do anything. God's law is spiritual and reigns within, it condemns wrong thoughts and desires and passions so you have never kept the law one day in your whole life.

Robert Pate
June 13th, 2017, 07:21 AM
"For the word of God (the law) is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and the intent of the heart" Hebrews 4:12.

jamie
June 13th, 2017, 08:35 AM
"For the word of God (the law) is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and the intent of the heart" Hebrews 4:12.


Why is that a problem?

beloved57
June 13th, 2017, 09:29 AM
Before God created the heavens and the earth he knew that it would be corrupted by Satan. God also knew that the crown of his creation (Adam) would sin against him and cause the fall of all of humanity. Adam's sin was no surprise to God. It was God's plan from the foundation of the world that Jesus would be the savior and would atone for the sins of the whole world, Revelation 13:8.

It is not given to us to understand all that was in God's mind in regards to Satan and God's creation. It appears that it was made known in heaven that God was going to create a race of people that the angels in heaven would be subject to. This apparently led to a war in heaven, Revelation 12:7-9. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth. They are still here today. If you don't think so listen to the news. Jesus dealt with them many times.

God's ways are not our ways. God doesn't see things the same way that we do, Isaiah 55:8,9. God sees everything at once, from the beginning to the end. Nor is God bound by time, space or matter. This is why the scripture says,

"But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" Galatians 4:4.

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law. Jesus knew the law simply because he was God's law incarnate in human flesh. This is why Paul wrote,

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21.

Jesus was the epitome of God's law. God said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17. Jesus is perfect God and perfect man in one person. He had to be perfect because God required a perfect sacrifice for the sins of man. Jesus comes into the world as God's new Adam and our new humanity. We become new creations in Jesus Christ when we by faith receive God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for us by Jesus Christ.

"If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation: old things are passed away: behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God and his Son Jesus Christ like new things, a new heaven, a new earth and we as new creations in Jesus Christ, Revelation 21:1. The old creation and the old Adamic humanity have been put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. Jesus Christ is God's new creation and his new humanity. As far as God is concerned, sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. God now sees all things in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This what Paul meant when he told the Colossians that were listening to the traditions of men that they "Were complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10. If you are complete in Jesus Christ then you really don't need anything else then do you?

God's purpose in Jesus Christ has been totally and completely realized in his Son Jesus Christ. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:6. The sins of the world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. We can now stand before God as complete in his Son Jesus Christ. What more could we want?

You dont even believe the Blood of Christ redeemed all for whom He shed it for ! You are in unbelief !

Robert Pate
June 13th, 2017, 09:57 AM
You dont even believe the Blood of Christ redeemed all for whom He shed it for ! You are in unbelief !

You are the one that is in unbelief. You deny the Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

beloved57
June 13th, 2017, 10:35 AM
You are the one that is in unbelief. You deny the Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

You teach that even after God has done all He can do, after Christ shed His Blood for one, they still lost !

ttruscott
June 13th, 2017, 11:16 AM
It is not given to us to understand all that was in God's mind in regards to Satan and God's creation.

We know as the revealed nature of GOD that HE is loving, righteous and holy, that is fully and completely dedicated to HIS loving and righteous self and not deviating. YET you would have us believe that this loving and righteous GOD had full prior knowledge of Satan's evil and the suffering and death he would cause and his horrible end in hell YET CREATED HIM ANY WAY!!! as the loving righteous thing to do???

And not only did HE create Satan as evil to go to hell, a Calvinist idea, HE apparently also created HIS bride in Adam thereby ensuring the she would be corrupt and disgusting until saved from her sin as if that was also a loving and righteous thing to do.

It is indeed given to us to understand these things, to understand that we need not resort to such blasphemy to fill in what we do not know or as yet reject from ignorance. As embarrassing as it is to admit one does not know the answer, it is better than blasphemy. And if our only answer is to blaspheme HIS good name and pretend we are not, then our theology needs some work, eh?

Robert Pate
June 13th, 2017, 11:18 AM
You teach that even after God has done all He can do, after Christ shed His Blood for one, they still lost !

There is no scripture that says, "Christ shed his blood for ONE".

What it says is that Christ shed his blood for the sins of the WORLD".

Epoisses
June 13th, 2017, 11:24 AM
We know as the revealed nature of GOD that HE is loving, righteous and holy, that is fully and completely dedicated to HIS loving and righteous self and not deviating. YET you would have us believe that this loving and righteous GOD had full prior knowledge of Satan's evil and the suffering and death he would cause and his horrible end in hell YET CREATED HIM ANY WAY!!! as the loving righteous thing to do???

And not only did HE create Satan as evil to go to hell, a Calvinist idea, HE apparently also created HIS bride in Adam thereby ensuring the she would be corrupt and disgusting until saved from her sin as if that was also a loving and righteous thing to do.

It is indeed given to us to understand these things, to understand that we need not resort to such blasphemy to fill in what we do not know or as yet reject from ignorance. As embarrassing as it is to admit one does not know the answer, it is better than blasphemy. And if our only answer is to blaspheme HIS good name and pretend we are not, then our theology needs some work, eh?

God created Satan and Adam with the full knowledge that they would someday sin and rebel against him. God is omniscient which means he is all knowing and has a full knowledge of the past, present and future. Prophecy is one of the ways that God reveals that he fully knows the future in minute detail.

beloved57
June 13th, 2017, 12:09 PM
There is no scripture that says, "Christ shed his blood for ONE".

What it says is that Christ shed his blood for the sins of the WORLD".

You teach they whom Christ shed His Blood for are still lost !

ttruscott
June 13th, 2017, 12:19 PM
It is not given to us to understand all that was in God's mind in regards to Satan and God's creation.

We know as the revealed nature of GOD that HE is loving, righteous and holy, that is fully and completely dedicated to HIS loving and righteous self and not deviating. YET you would have us believe that this loving and righteous GOD had full prior knowledge of Satan's evil and the suffering and death he would cause and his horrible end in hell YET CREATED HIM ANY WAY!!! as the loving righteous thing to do???

And not only did HE create Satan as evil to go to hell, a Calvinist idea, HE apparently also created HIS bride in Adam thereby ensuring the she would be corrupt and disgusting until saved from her sin as if that was also a loving and righteous thing to do.

It is indeed given to us to understand these things, to understand that we need not resort to such blasphemy to fill in what we do not know or as yet reject from ignorance. As embarrassing as it is to admit one does not know the answer, it is better than blasphemy. And if our only answer is to blaspheme HIS good name and pretend we do not, then our theology needs some work, eh?

ttruscott
June 13th, 2017, 12:44 PM
God created Satan and Adam with the full knowledge that they would someday sin and rebel against him. God is omniscient which means he is all knowing and has a full knowledge of the past, present and future. Prophecy is one of the ways that God reveals that he fully knows the future in minute detail. This little preaching doesn't suggest any answer to the problems I suggested about using the pagan definition of omniscience to apply to YHWH in the least!

So all HE had to do was to not create those HE KNEW would sin and HIS reality would be full of only those who would not sin by their free will and hell would be empty and HE DID NOT DO IT??? Though HE is the source of every good gift? James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. Show some respect for HIS Loving Holiness, please...

Read Acts 15:18 again in the version of your choice and see if this fits your definition of what HE knows. And of course HE knows what will happen on earth as it is written HE has predestined some sinners to holy lives by predetermining their lives; Acts 4:28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. which also applies to HIS elect ones and does not mean HE knew from time eternity past.

Robert Pate
June 13th, 2017, 12:58 PM
We know as the revealed nature of GOD that HE is loving, righteous and holy, that is fully and completely dedicated to HIS loving and righteous self and not deviating. YET you would have us believe that this loving and righteous GOD had full prior knowledge of Satan's evil and the suffering and death he would cause and his horrible end in hell YET CREATED HIM ANY WAY!!! as the loving righteous thing to do???

And not only did HE create Satan as evil to go to hell, a Calvinist idea, HE apparently also created HIS bride in Adam thereby ensuring the she would be corrupt and disgusting until saved from her sin as if that was also a loving and righteous thing to do.

It is indeed given to us to understand these things, to understand that we need not resort to such blasphemy to fill in what we do not know or as yet reject from ignorance. As embarrassing as it is to admit one does not know the answer, it is better than blasphemy. And if our only answer is to blaspheme HIS good name and pretend we do not, then our theology needs some work, eh?


God did not create anyone to do evil. They took it upon themselves to do evil by their own free will. There is one thing that God does not create, he does not create robots. Even the angels in heaven have a free will. If you want to rebel against God you have the power to do it, he will not stop you. However there are consequences to sin and rebellion. Because God is holy and righteous he must judge sin.

Nanja
June 13th, 2017, 04:00 PM
God did not create anyone to do evil.


You LIE against the scriptures!

Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Job. 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


It's God's prerogative to make His creatures for whatever Purpose He chooses!

Robert Pate
June 13th, 2017, 04:12 PM
You LIE against the scriptures!

Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Job. 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


It's God's prerogative to make His creatures for whatever Purpose He chooses!

God does not create evil people. If he did that he would be unjust.

He creates people that choose to be wicked by their own free will.

To believe that God creates life for the purpose of destroying it shows that you have a perverted view of the nature and character of God.

Nanja
June 13th, 2017, 05:01 PM
God does not create evil people. If he did that he would be unjust.

He creates people that choose to be wicked by their own free will.

To believe that God creates life for the purpose of destroying it shows that you have a perverted view of the nature and character of God.


That's the faulty understanding of a natural man whose mind is blinded to the Truth 2 Cor. 4:3-4!

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yeah, you Lie against the Word of God!


Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Robert Pate
June 14th, 2017, 07:55 AM
That's the faulty understanding of a natural man whose mind is blinded to the Truth 2 Cor. 4:3-4!

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yeah, you Lie against the Word of God!


Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


Your perverted view of the nature and character of God proves that you don't have faith in him.

Nanja
June 14th, 2017, 03:53 PM
Your perverted view of the nature and character of God proves that you don't have faith in him.

Your view of the scriptures is perverted because you are not Born of God.

You're unable to Spiritually Hear God's Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Robert Pate
June 14th, 2017, 07:37 PM
Your view of the scriptures is perverted because you are not Born of God.

You're unable to Spiritually Hear God's Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


The Bible plainly teaches that those that are born again are born again by the word of God which is the Gospel.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.

You have never been born again because you reject the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19.

Nanja
June 15th, 2017, 05:14 AM
The Bible plainly teaches that those that are born again are born again by the word of God which is the Gospel.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.


Pate, you have no understanding of what New Birth actually is.

1 Pet. 1:3, 23
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God, the Logos of God, is the Lord Jesus Christ !

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the Life that was In Him was His Seed / Offspring, exclusive to the portion of mankind which had an elective union with Him, their Head and Surety Heb. 7:22, before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4.

Therefore every one of Christ's Seed chosen in Him of the Father, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, shall be born again / born of the Spirit in Time because they already had Life in Him from Eternity John 1:4!

Epoisses
June 15th, 2017, 07:06 AM
Pate, you have no understanding of what New Birth actually is.

1 Pet. 1:3, 23
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God, the Logos of God, is the Lord Jesus Christ !

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the Life that was In Him was His Seed / Offspring, exclusive to the portion of mankind which had an elective union with Him, their Head and Surety Heb. 7:22, before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4.

Therefore every one of Christ's Seed chosen in Him of the Father, the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, shall be born again / born of the Spirit in Time because they already had Life in Him from Eternity John 1:4!

And in the parable of the sower there were 4 classes of believers with two who fell away because of temptation, cares of this world and riches. The born-again believer or babe in Christ never reached maturity. How is that possible?

Nanja
June 15th, 2017, 03:17 PM
And in the parable of the sower there were 4 classes of believers with two who fell away because of temptation, cares of this world and riches. The born-again believer or babe in Christ never reached maturity. How is that possible?


It's only God's Elect, the Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4 which shall hear God's Words in New Birth, and Given Faith Gal. 5:22 to Believe on Christ; for He is the Author and Finisher of their Faith Heb. 12:2!


But all others are false believers, the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39, that's why they have no understanding of the Truth.


John 8:43-47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is [U]of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

beloved57
June 15th, 2017, 03:44 PM
It's only God's Elect, the Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4 which shall hear God's Words in New Birth, and Given Faith Gal. 5:22 to Believe on Christ; for He is the Author and Finisher of their Faith Heb. 12:2!


But all others are false believers, the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39, that's why they have no understanding of the Truth.


John 8:43-47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is [U]of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
The Elect must be born again because they are Christ Seed.

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Nanja
June 15th, 2017, 03:52 PM
The Elect must be born again because they are Christ Seed.

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

Amen Brother! ☺

Epoisses
June 15th, 2017, 07:27 PM
It's only God's Elect, the Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4 which shall hear God's Words in New Birth, and Given Faith Gal. 5:22 to Believe on Christ; for He is the Author and Finisher of their Faith Heb. 12:2!


But all others are false believers, the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39, that's why they have no understanding of the Truth.


John 8:43-47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is [U]of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Read it again Doofy! Jesus said some believed and received the word with joy but fell away when the time of temptation came. Believers fell away according to Jesus just like once saved always saved falls away as well.

Nanja
June 16th, 2017, 04:36 AM
The hearing and believing of the the natural man, does not involve understanding.

Because they are not Born of God they are prevented from spiritually hearing God's Words.

John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The word for "hearing" is akouō: to comprehend, to understand

And the word "understandeth" in Mat. 13:23 is the Gr. word syniemi and means:

i.e. to understand: the man of understanding


Many in false religion say they "believe" in God, or Christ, but because they are not Born of God, their own work of believing is merely a work of the flesh they do which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

Mat. 13:20- 21
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

John 8:31
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

But the ones who reject the Truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God are more than likely Vessels of dishonour fitted for destruction Rom. 9:23.

Rom. 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

The word "heart" here is the Gr. word "kardia" and one of the meanings is:

the centre and seat of spiritual life

the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

Epoisses
June 16th, 2017, 06:10 AM
The hearing and believing of the the natural man, does not involve understanding.

Because they are not Born of God they are prevented from spiritually hearing God's Words.

John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The word for "hearing" is akouō: to comprehend, to understand

And the word "understandeth" in Mat. 13:23 is the Gr. word syniemi and means:

i.e. to understand: the man of understanding


Many in false religion say they "believe" in God, or Christ, but because they are not Born of God, their own work of believing is merely a work of the flesh they do which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

Mat. 13:20- 21
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

John 8:31
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

But the ones who reject the Truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God are more than likely Vessels of dishonour fitted for destruction Rom. 9:23.

Rom. 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

The word "heart" here is the Gr. word "kardia" and one of the meanings is:

the centre and seat of spiritual life

the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

Jesus himself said some believe and then fall away!

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

Nanja
June 16th, 2017, 07:25 AM
Jesus himself said some believe and then fall away!

Nanja

Many in false religion say they "believe" in God, or Christ, but because they are not Born of God, their own work of believing is merely a work of the flesh they do which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

Mat. 13:20- 21
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 08:56 AM
Nanja

I think that you don't know what you believe.

First you say that God decided everything from the foundation of the world and now you are saying that some can fall away. How does anyone fall away if they were chosen from the foundation of the world?

You try to mix your Calvinist beliefs with Christianity and the Bible and they don't mix.

jamie
June 16th, 2017, 09:08 AM
You try to mix your Calvinist beliefs with Christianity and the Bible and they don't mix.


Yes, but does God love people with Calvinist beliefs?

Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 09:31 AM
Yes, but does God love people with Calvinist beliefs?

God loves everyone. However, he's a God of judgment and must judge sin. if you are found in your sins because of unbelief you will perish.

jamie
June 16th, 2017, 09:38 AM
God loves everyone. However, he's a God of judgment and must judge sin. if you are found in your sins because of unbelief you will perish.


What percentage of people do you believe have sinned?

The Father personally judges no one and Jesus was not sent to condemn the world.

Not even those who differ from your strange pronouncements.

beloved57
June 16th, 2017, 10:55 AM
God loves everyone. However, he's a God of judgment and must judge sin. if you are found in your sins because of unbelief you will perish.

False statements about God ! God doesnt Love the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 01:01 PM
False statements about God ! God doesnt Love the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Calvinism is not going to save you. You condemn yourself with your own scriptures. You are very foolish for believing in the writings of a heretic.

Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 01:04 PM
What percentage of people do you believe have sinned?

The Father personally judges no one and Jesus was not sent to condemn the world.

Not even those who differ from your strange pronouncements.

Paul said, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

There will be a judgment.

Nanja
June 16th, 2017, 02:30 PM
I think that you don't know what you believe.

First you say that God decided everything from the foundation of the world and now you are saying that some can fall away. How does anyone fall away if they were chosen from the foundation of the world?

You try to mix your Calvinist beliefs with Christianity and the Bible and they don't mix.


Quote me where I said that!

jamie
June 16th, 2017, 03:26 PM
Paul said, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.


Good. So why do people sin? What causes it?

Robert Pate
June 16th, 2017, 04:28 PM
Good. So why do people sin? What causes it?

We are all born after Adam who is our first Father. We have inherited his sinful nature. Romans 5:12.

This is why you need to be born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

beloved57
June 16th, 2017, 05:41 PM
Calvinism is not going to save you. You condemn yourself with your own scriptures. You are very foolish for believing in the writings of a heretic.
You deny the truth!

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jamie
June 16th, 2017, 08:31 PM
We are all born after Adam who is our first Father. We have inherited his sinful nature. Romans 5:12.


How did Adam acquire a sinful nature?

Robert Pate
June 17th, 2017, 07:57 AM
How did Adam acquire a sinful nature?

God does not create robots. Even the angels in heaven have free will.

Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God. When Adam sinned God withdrew his Spirit from him.

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 11:53 AM
When Adam sinned God withdrew his Spirit from him.


What did the tree of life symbolize?

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever... '" (Genesis 3:22)

Those begotten by the Father have God's Spirit and eternal life.

Robert Pate
June 17th, 2017, 12:03 PM
What did the tree of life symbolize?

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever... '" (Genesis 3:22)

Those begotten by the Father have God's Spirit and eternal life.

The tree of life is guarded because it can only come by way of divine intervention, Jesus Christ is the tree of life.

There was only one begotten of the Father, Jesus Christ.

Bright Raven
June 17th, 2017, 01:31 PM
You dont even believe the Blood of Christ redeemed all for whom He shed it for ! You are in unbelief !

We already know your position. You don't even have to post it.

Bright Raven
June 17th, 2017, 01:35 PM
Your view of the scriptures is perverted because you are not Born of God.

You're unable to Spiritually Hear God's Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So who then did Jesus die for;

1 John 2:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Christ Is Our Advocate
2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Bright Raven
June 17th, 2017, 01:38 PM
What percentage of people do you believe have sinned?

The Father personally judges no one and Jesus was not sent to condemn the world.

Not even those who differ from your strange pronouncements.Romans 3:23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Bright Raven
June 17th, 2017, 01:40 PM
You deny the truth!

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Calvinism does not save. Belief in Jesus saves.

Nang
June 17th, 2017, 02:42 PM
Calvinism does not save. Belief in Jesus saves.

Actually, belief nor Calvinism saves. God alone saves.

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 04:11 PM
Romans 3:23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


Why do people sin and fall short?

patrick jane
June 17th, 2017, 05:35 PM
Why do people sin and fall short?Because of Adam & Eve Psalm 51:5 KJV -

Caino
June 17th, 2017, 05:45 PM
Before God created the heavens and the earth he knew that it would be corrupted by Satan. God also knew that the crown of his creation (Adam) would sin against him and cause the fall of all of humanity. Adam's sin was no surprise to God. It was God's plan from the foundation of the world that Jesus would be the savior and would atone for the sins of the whole world, Revelation 13:8.

It is not given to us to understand all that was in God's mind in regards to Satan and God's creation. It appears that it was made known in heaven that God was going to create a race of people that the angels in heaven would be subject to. This apparently led to a war in heaven, Revelation 12:7-9. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth. They are still here today. If you don't think so listen to the news. Jesus dealt with them many times.

God's ways are not our ways. God doesn't see things the same way that we do, Isaiah 55:8,9. God sees everything at once, from the beginning to the end. Nor is God bound by time, space or matter. This is why the scripture says,

"But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" Galatians 4:4.

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law. Jesus knew the law simply because he was God's law incarnate in human flesh. This is why Paul wrote,

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21.

Jesus was the epitome of God's law. God said, "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17. Jesus is perfect God and perfect man in one person. He had to be perfect because God required a perfect sacrifice for the sins of man. Jesus comes into the world as God's new Adam and our new humanity. We become new creations in Jesus Christ when we by faith receive God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for us by Jesus Christ.

"If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation: old things are passed away: behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God and his Son Jesus Christ like new things, a new heaven, a new earth and we as new creations in Jesus Christ, Revelation 21:1. The old creation and the old Adamic humanity have been put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. Jesus Christ is God's new creation and his new humanity. As far as God is concerned, sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. God now sees all things in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This what Paul meant when he told the Colossians that were listening to the traditions of men that they "Were complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10. If you are complete in Jesus Christ then you really don't need anything else then do you?

God's purpose in Jesus Christ has been totally and completely realized in his Son Jesus Christ. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:6. The sins of the world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. We can now stand before God as complete in his Son Jesus Christ. What more could we want?

The Son created this world, he came because the Fathers will for the Son was to experience human incarnation successfully in order to achieve sovereignty of his own co-creation. He did just that. Man being somewhat self centered, interpreted the incarnate life as a sacrifice for mans own sins.

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 06:20 PM
Because of Adam & Eve Psalm 51:5 KJV


Why did Adam and Eve sin?

patrick jane
June 17th, 2017, 06:22 PM
Why did Adam and Eve sin?freewill

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 06:26 PM
freewill


Adam and Eve sinned because it is human nature to sin.

They couldn't help it. They did not yet have the power needed to overcome their human nature.

Nang
June 17th, 2017, 06:29 PM
Adam and Eve sinned because it is human nature to sin.

NO! Human nature was created good.


They couldn't help it.

WRONG! To say so, is to make God the author of sin.


They did not yet have the power needed to overcome their human nature.

A&E corrupted their human nature by disobeying God's Law. Plain and simple.

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 06:36 PM
NO! Human nature was created good.


"For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:6-8 NASB)

Nang
June 17th, 2017, 06:37 PM
"For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:6-8 NASB)

Effect, not cause . . .

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 06:39 PM
Effect, not cause . . .


Who caused Adam and Eve not to be able to resist temptation?

patrick jane
June 17th, 2017, 07:31 PM
NO! Human nature was created good.



WRONG! To say so, is to make God the author of sin.



A&E corrupted their human nature by disobeying God's Law. Plain and simple.So you DO believe in freewill !!! :wave2:

Nang
June 17th, 2017, 08:38 PM
So you DO believe in freewill !!! :wave2:

I believe man was created a willful creature, but his will was subjected to the moral standards of God (Law) through commands given immediately in the garden.

When Adam willfully disobeyed God's commands, Adam lost his God-given ability to willfully cause and effect rightly, and instead came under bondage to Satan . . in body and will.

In effect, the will of man was never really "free." He was created under the Law and commands of God as to how he was to lead a holy life.

After the fall, Adam became enslaved to Satan, and could only exercise his will to sin.

Only by being regenerated in Jesus Christ, is the will of man freed to serve righteousness . . and even then mans' will is eternally subject to the will of God.

Man has a will, but he can only serve one or the other of two Masters . . God or Satan . . so the term "free" will is a misnomer.

Only God is a free-will agent.

jamie
June 17th, 2017, 10:07 PM
How do you know they didn't repent and live righteously?

Robert Pate
June 18th, 2017, 01:42 PM
I believe man was created a willful creature, but his will was subjected to the moral standards of God (Law) through commands given immediately in the garden.

When Adam willfully disobeyed God's commands, Adam lost his God-given ability to willfully cause and effect rightly, and instead came under bondage to Satan . . in body and will.

In effect, the will of man was never really "free." He was created under the Law and commands of God as to how he was to lead a holy life.

After the fall, Adam became enslaved to Satan, and could only exercise his will to sin.

Only by being regenerated in Jesus Christ, is the will of man freed to serve righteousness . . and even then mans' will is eternally subject to the will of God.

Man has a will, but he can only serve one or the other of two Masters . . God or Satan . . so the term "free" will is a misnomer.

Only God is a free-will agent.


There is no scripture that says that Adam lost his free will in the fall. Did not Cain by his own free will murder his brother Abel? Maybe you think that God willed that? What Adam lost in the fall was his relationship with God.

beloved57
June 18th, 2017, 04:20 PM
There is no scripture that says that Adam lost his free will in the fall. Did not Cain by his own free will murder his brother Abel? Maybe you think that God willed that? What Adam lost in the fall was his relationship with God.
Invalid comment !

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jamie
June 18th, 2017, 05:33 PM
Invalid comment !


Does invalid comment mean you don't get it or does it means you have a different opinion?

Eschew obfuscation.

Robert Pate
June 18th, 2017, 08:16 PM
Invalid comment !

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You are not able to refute what I say with scripture. All that you do is blow hot air.

beloved57
June 18th, 2017, 09:21 PM
You are not able to refute what I say with scripture. All that you do is blow hot air.
Your lies are self refuted. You don't even believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for!

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beloved57
June 18th, 2017, 10:51 PM
Does invalid comment mean you don't get it or does it means you have a different opinion?

Eschew obfuscation.

Invalid means invalid !

Robert Pate
June 19th, 2017, 08:20 AM
Invalid means invalid !

Invalid means that he has closed his mind to the truth.

beloved57
June 19th, 2017, 09:47 AM
Invalid means that he has closed his mind to the truth.
Invalid means invalid.

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Robert Pate
June 19th, 2017, 01:13 PM
Invalid means invalid.

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There will not be any invalid when you stand before God in your sins.

Bright Raven
June 19th, 2017, 02:43 PM
Your lies are self refuted. You don't even believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')1 John 2:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 and He Himself is the [a]propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

beloved57
June 19th, 2017, 03:07 PM
There will not be any invalid when you stand before God in your sins.

Your false gospel attempts to make Christ death invalid since you believe sinners He died for remain lost !

Bright Raven
June 19th, 2017, 03:38 PM
Your false gospel attempts to make Christ death invalid since you believe sinners He died for remain lost ! You twist the scripture to fit your theology. The truth reads;

1 John 2:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Robert Pate
June 20th, 2017, 08:02 AM
You twist the scripture to fit your theology. The truth reads;

1 John 2:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The Bible doesn't get it for B57. It has to be written by John Calvin.

beloved57
June 20th, 2017, 10:38 AM
The Bible doesn't get it for B57. It has to be written by John Calvin.

You dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You believe mans freewill saves !

Bright Raven
June 20th, 2017, 11:55 AM
You dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You believe mans freewill saves !

The freewill of man to choose salvation does save.

Robert Pate
June 20th, 2017, 12:38 PM
The freewill of man to choose salvation does save.

Me, myself and I, will call upon the name of the Lord and shall be saved. Romans 10:13.