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deborah
June 9th, 2017, 03:49 PM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here . Various reasons being that I don't think my comments would be welcome and almost certainly end in arguments and Ill feeling and I have a pretty simple faith and would be totally lost with all your knowledge .
However I read daily , mainly because i love to hear other people's beliefs and points of view and maybe challenge some of my own .
However there is one particularly big fly in the ointment that I have tried to ignore many times , but I feel the need to post so I hope you indulge me rather than give the same treatment I'm about to accuse some of you of .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . Xx


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Jacob
June 9th, 2017, 05:13 PM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here . Various reasons being that I don't think my comments would be welcome and almost certainly end in arguments and Ill feeling and I have a pretty simple faith and would be totally lost with all your knowledge .
However I read daily , mainly because i love to hear other people's beliefs and points of view and maybe challenge some of my own .
However there is one particularly big fly in the ointment that I have tried to ignore many times , but I feel the need to post so I hope you indulge me rather than give the same treatment I'm about to accuse some of you of .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . Xx


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)
Shalom.

I am a Jew. I used to be a Christian. It is good to hear you express some of your story here. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

Shalom.

Jacob

deborah
June 10th, 2017, 06:32 AM
Hi Jacob ,
Thank you for the kind reply . Would be interested to hear why or how your beliefs changed . While I am an avid reader of the bible and have many different version to study and read from I do not believe it is the very infallible ,literal word of God ... pause for shocked gasp ... .


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patrick jane
June 10th, 2017, 07:33 AM
Hi Jacob ,
Thank you for the kind reply . Would be interested to hear why or how your beliefs changed . While I am an avid reader of the bible and have many different version to study and read from I do not believe it is the very infallible ,literal word of God ... pause for shocked gasp ... .


Sent from my iPhone using TOLYour beliefs are false. Stick to the King James Bible

deborah
June 10th, 2017, 07:36 AM
Well just the type of reply I expected, as my point proves not much further conversation can be had .


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patrick jane
June 10th, 2017, 07:40 AM
Well just the type of reply I expected, as my point proves not much further conversation can be had .


Sent from my iPhone using TOLYou tell us that our beliefs won't line up with yours, you're right, end of conversation

deborah
June 10th, 2017, 12:02 PM
It's a sad and lonely world if you only converse with those who have the same opinions as yours .


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1Mind1Spirit
June 10th, 2017, 12:02 PM
James 3:17-18English Standard Version (ESV)


17*But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.


18*And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

10Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be!

deborah
June 10th, 2017, 12:42 PM
I agree , and I see not remit or clause as to whom is allowed to participate in the above verses . X


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Nick M
June 10th, 2017, 03:02 PM
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief .

Like this?

6 Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?

Nick M
June 10th, 2017, 03:04 PM
I really don't want to debate on how we should judge

Like this?


I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .

So you don't want to judge, except when you want to judge. I'm just checking. :)

Tambora
June 10th, 2017, 03:37 PM
Like this?



So you don't want to judge, except when you want to judge. I'm just checking. :)Beats everything, doesn't it?
Start a thread judging the site with her disapproval, and then claim she didn't come to judge.

Nick M
June 10th, 2017, 04:16 PM
Beats everything, doesn't it?
Start a thread judging the site with her disapproval, and then claim she didn't come to judge.

That is when I toss the red letters in their face they pretend to keep. You shall no them by their fruit, and by your words you are condemned.

deborah
June 10th, 2017, 04:24 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


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turbosixx
June 10th, 2017, 05:01 PM
Hi Jacob ,
While I am an avid reader of the bible and have many different version to study and read from I do not believe it is the very infallible ,literal word of God ... pause for shocked gasp ... .


Sounds like to me, if you don't believe it's" infallible ,literal word of God", then you must simply view it as a good way to live life. If that is the case, then you would be free to choose any religion you like.

I believe it is the literal word of God and has the words of eternal life unlike any other religion.
Jn. 6:68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. This is how I look at it. If God can create the universe from nothing, then he can give us his infallible word.

It's good you study from different versions but I would recommend the word for word translations.

I agree. For so called Christians, some do not act Christ like. They have no love, compassion or mercy.

steko
June 10th, 2017, 05:09 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


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Hi!
How are you?

turbosixx
June 10th, 2017, 05:16 PM
It's a sad and lonely world if you only converse with those who have the same opinions as yours .


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It's not smart either.

Nick M
June 10th, 2017, 05:35 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.




:chuckle:

When you tell somebody "don't judge", you are judging them. The irony.

Arthur Brain
June 10th, 2017, 06:13 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


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It's bizarre sometimes to see so much anger, hate and bile from those that profess a faith you'd think would cure them from it, but then there's many people here who display 'the fruits' too so don't let the 'angry' ones stop you from posting.

My 2 cents...

CherubRam
June 10th, 2017, 06:29 PM
Hi Jacob ,
Thank you for the kind reply . Would be interested to hear why or how your beliefs changed . While I am an avid reader of the bible and have many different version to study and read from I do not believe it is the very infallible ,literal word of God ... pause for shocked gasp ... .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

It is wise to hear all sides of the story in searching for the truth.

CherubRam
June 10th, 2017, 06:31 PM
It's a sad and lonely world if you only converse with those who have the same opinions as yours .


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If everyone agreed with you all of the time, then I suggest that there is something wrong.

CherubRam
June 10th, 2017, 06:36 PM
A good study bible with foot notes always helps to show the truth.

patrick jane
June 10th, 2017, 06:45 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


Sent from my iPhone using TOLYou have yet to expound on "your beliefs" - how are we supposed to know what kind of conversation you want? You started off complaining about posters here

Nihilo
June 10th, 2017, 08:14 PM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here . Various reasons being that I don't think my comments would be welcome and almost certainly end in arguments and Ill feeling and I have a pretty simple faith and would be totally lost with all your knowledge .
However I read daily , mainly because i love to hear other people's beliefs and points of view and maybe challenge some of my own .
However there is one particularly big fly in the ointment that I have tried to ignore many times , but I feel the need to post so I hope you indulge me rather than give the same treatment I'm about to accuse some of you of .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . XxOthers have already said it, but you're judging. You see through your eyes, and you see "hate, anger, discrimination," but you don't see love, not according to you, so you judge that we don't love each other, and call us hypocrites. It's love that we're expressing, and there's an idea that people have in their head for what love's supposed to look like, and if behavior doesn't match this picture, then it's not love, but that presumes an enormous authority to judge, that is unwarranted and false.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead? He either did or He didn't. If He did, then there's an official story and explanation, and we argue about what that official story and explanation is. It's a fruitful endeavor because ultimately we've got to convert the whole world to the faith; faith that He is risen.

Lazy afternoon
June 10th, 2017, 08:20 PM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here . Various reasons being that I don't think my comments would be welcome and almost certainly end in arguments and Ill feeling and I have a pretty simple faith and would be totally lost with all your knowledge .
However I read daily , mainly because i love to hear other people's beliefs and points of view and maybe challenge some of my own .
However there is one particularly big fly in the ointment that I have tried to ignore many times , but I feel the need to post so I hope you indulge me rather than give the same treatment I'm about to accuse some of you of .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . Xx


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Just do not think of it as a Christian message board. It is not, it is an accumulation of all sorts.

LA

patrick jane
June 10th, 2017, 08:25 PM
It's a fruitful endeavor because ultimately we've got to convert the whole world to the faith; faith that He is risen.For our justification Romans 4:25 KJV -

Nihilo
June 10th, 2017, 08:25 PM
"O fools"---Jesus Christ, after He rose from the dead

Luke 24:25 (KJV)

Nihilo
June 10th, 2017, 08:28 PM
For our justification Romans 4:25 KJV -Isn't it wonderful that we're confronted with this marvelous event, that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and instead of that being the end of the story, which would be fine! . . . instead of that being the end of the wonderfully good story, there's an enormous amount of reliable information, to answer and address every conceivable question we might have, about what it means that He rose from the dead?

daqq
June 10th, 2017, 10:29 PM
When you tell somebody "don't judge", you are judging them. The irony.

That is an accusation against the Master accusing him of judging:

Matthew 7:1 KJV
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

He is not judging his disciples by telling them not to judge.
He is teaching them, and in this case, commanding and warning them.

John 8:15 KJV
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

John 12:46-48 KJV
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word [Logos] that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

glorydaz
June 10th, 2017, 10:38 PM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


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Actually, you haven't said anything about your beliefs.

You've only told us you don't like people to say mean things. Well, you might find that on Facebook....well, no, I can't say that. You might find it at a neighborhood party....well, no, I can't say that, either.

We live in a world of sin, and believers and unbelievers post on this site. We aren't here to be fakey nice but to convince non believers they should turn to God with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. It's a spiritual battle we're engaging in, and any battle can get ugly. If you're so weak that you're easily offended then there are other sites that might fit you better. There are lots of pretenders out there for your enjoyment.

glorydaz
June 10th, 2017, 10:41 PM
That is an accusation against the Master accusing him of judging:

Matthew 7:1 KJV
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

He is not judging his disciples by telling them not to judge.
He is teaching them, and in this case, commanding and warning them.

John 8:15 KJV
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

John 12:46-48 KJV
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word [Logos] that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

No, Nihilo. [edit to Daqq) There is a judging done only by God, and there is a judging we are to do. Nick was talking about that which we are to do.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

daqq
June 10th, 2017, 10:58 PM
No, Nihilo. There is a judging done only by God, and there is a judging we are to do. Nick was talking about that which we are to do.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Not so, the Master says, Do not judge, lest you be judged, (as quoted from Mt 7:1), and he also says that he himself judges no one, (as quoted from John 8:15 and John 12:46-48). And he also says that the Father judges no one, (John 5:22), but has committed all judgment to the Son, (who is the Logos-Word and not himself because the words that he speaks are not his own, but the Father's who sent him, John 14:24). What Nick said was a blanket statement designed to justify himself and defend what he imagines to be his right to run around judging others in opposition to the Testimony of the Master in Mt 7:1. The point was not to judge Nick in what I said and posted but to show that what he said is in error because it contradicts what the Master teaches. Also, quoting Paul out of context is meaningless because if Paul contradicts what the Master teaches then you simply do not understand Paul. Also, I am not Nihilo.

glorydaz
June 10th, 2017, 11:03 PM
Not so, the Master says, Do not judge, lest you be judged, (as quoted from Mt 7:1), and he also says that he himself judges no one, (as quoted from John 8:15 and John 12:46-48). And he also says that the Father judges no one, (John 5:22), but has committed all judgment to the Son, (who is the Logos-Word and not himself because the words that he speaks are not his own, but the Father's who sent him, John 14:24). What Nick said was a blanket statement designed to justify himself and defend what he imagines to be his right to run around judging others in opposition to the Testimony of the Master in Mt 7:1. The point was not to judge Nick in what I said and posted but to show that what he said is in error because it contradicts what the Master teaches. Also, quoting Paul out of context is meaningless because if Paul contradicts what the Master teaches then you simply do not understand Paul. Also, I am not Nihilo.

If I'd have realized it was YOU, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything.

I am pleased it wasn't Nihilo, though. Whew....

And you're wrong. The difference is in the word Judge. God judges sin, and we are to judge (discern) the truth of what others are saying. So, you're rambling on about something you have taken out of context.

daqq
June 10th, 2017, 11:04 PM
If I'd have realized it was YOU, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything.

I am pleased it wasn't Nihilo, though. Whew....

And you're wrong. The difference is in the word Judge. God judges sin, and we are to judge (discern) the truth of what others are saying. So, you're rambling on about something you have taken out of context.

The Logos-Word is the only Judge, the Seeker and the Judge.
You have no clue what you are ranting on about.

John 8:50
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one who seeks and judges.

glorydaz
June 10th, 2017, 11:43 PM
The Logos-Word is the only Judge, the Seeker and the Judge.
You have no clue what you are ranting on about.

John 8:50
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one who seeks and judges.

You don't know scripture very well, then, do you? God will judge all men, as these verses show clearly. It was the Word (God) who became flesh, and we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We who are spiritual are to judge all things. There is a difference.


1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 12:17 AM
You don't know scripture very well, then, do you? God will judge all men, as these verses show clearly. It was the Word (God) who became flesh, and we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We who are spiritual are to judge all things. There is a difference.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


You again do not even believe the Testimony of the one you claim is God Almighty:

The words of the Anointed One are SPIRIT and they are Life.
If indeed his words are Spirit then WHO exactly is that SPIRIT?

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Anointed One does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.

The Anointed One emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Logos-Word which the Anointed One speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

NONE of the above emphatic statements are ever going to pass away:

Matthew 24:35 (Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)
35 The heavens and the earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away.

To deny the plain emphatic statements of the Master quoted above is to deny Messiah.
To deny the Logos-Reasoning behind these statements is to deny the Logos-Word.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The Anointed One does not seek his own glory, (John 8:50).
The Anointed One testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The Anointed One is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that the Anointed One spoke is the Judge.
The Anointed One himself therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of the Anointed One shall never pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).

The Anointed One was Anointed with the Son of Elohim who descended from the heavens.
The Son of Elohim is the Logos-Memra-Word of the Almighty Father YHWH Elohim.

glorydaz
June 11th, 2017, 12:35 AM
You again do not even believe the Testimony of the one you claim is God Almighty:

The words of the Anointed One are SPIRIT and they are Life.
If indeed his words are Spirit then WHO exactly is that SPIRIT?

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Anointed One does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.

The Anointed One emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Logos-Word which the Anointed One speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

NONE of the above emphatic statements are ever going to pass away:

Matthew 24:35 (Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)
35 The heavens and the earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away.

To deny the plain emphatic statements of the Master quoted above is to deny Messiah.
To deny the Logos-Reasoning behind these statements is to deny the Logos-Word.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The Anointed One does not seek his own glory, (John 8:50).
The Anointed One testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The Anointed One is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that the Anointed One spoke is the Judge.
The Anointed One himself therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of the Anointed One shall never pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).

The Anointed One was Anointed with the Son of Elohim who descended from the heavens.
The Son of Elohim is the Logos-Memra-Word of the Almighty Father YHWH Elohim.

So you deny the Lord Jesus Christ is God....is that what this is all about?

Then you have no Saviour, do you?

marhig
June 11th, 2017, 12:38 AM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here . Various reasons being that I don't think my comments would be welcome and almost certainly end in arguments and Ill feeling and I have a pretty simple faith and would be totally lost with all your knowledge .
However I read daily , mainly because i love to hear other people's beliefs and points of view and maybe challenge some of my own .
However there is one particularly big fly in the ointment that I have tried to ignore many times , but I feel the need to post so I hope you indulge me rather than give the same treatment I'm about to accuse some of you of .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . Xx


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Have no fear Deborah, if God is with you, fear no one. God will give you the word when needed. Christ Jesus said that we will suffer persecution for his name's sake, we are to take it on the chin and forgive others no matter what they say about us. Only God knows our hearts.

I'm not of any church either, Jesus isn't a denomination, the church are those who belong to him and live by the will of God, and those who live by the will of God and brothers and sisters in Christ. It's not those who belong to a particular denomination. Jesus said, where two or three are gathered together, there I will be in the midst. And the two can be you and the Holy Spirit.

I believe differently from others too, for a start, I believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the son of God, but I don't believe in the trinity. What do you believe in?

Ps. Faith is an amazing thing to have, it is what we are saved through, by the grace of God :)

chair
June 11th, 2017, 01:06 AM
hs .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God ...

She's right. It can get pretty disgusting here. It usually does- it is a rare thread that doesn't devolve to name calling within a few posts.

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 01:06 AM
So you deny the Lord Jesus Christ is God....is that what this is all about?

Then you have no Saviour, do you?

Have you "rightly divided" as you and yours claim for yourselves from that passage so often? If so then why do you judge me for quoting the Word you claim to know, love, and even worship? It can only be that you do not believe the Word I quoted from the one whom you claim is God Almighty. I just showed you from the same Word who is the Meshiah, the Christ, and therefore obviously I do not deny him. Your insinuation and judgment thereby are both false. And the more you judge the more the Logos-Word is going to judge you until your false doctrine collapses into the shifty sand of your foundation.

oatmeal
June 11th, 2017, 05:28 AM
Hello everyone,
I hardly ever post on here .
I understand this is a Christian forum , and if you just want to share same beliefs and swap favourite bible verses then maybe your membership should be a little more inclusive . But of course there are many denominations under the "Christian " umbrella and many none Christian faiths .
I just can not stand the amount of hate , anger , discrimination and childish name calling that goes on whenever some one states a different belief . It is horrendous, not to mention hypocritical of a group of people who are meant to have the love and compassion of God .
One of the main reasons I left church and not been back is because we act one way out in public but are so venomous and judgmental when we think we are hidden and can not be held accountable .
And that's it really , just wanted to get that off my chest , I really don't want to debate on how we should judge , or how Jesus came to divide , or the bible is a two edged sword etc etc as mentioned above my beliefs especially regarding the bible will not be the same as yours so will not have the desired affect . Think of it as one human to another asking for more love and compassion, like I said I have a simple faith . Xx


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

There is a lot of venomous words and hatred and name calling on this site.

But not everyone resorts to that stuff.

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 05:48 AM
Hello again , thankyou for all your comments.
I suppose it is a little ironic and obviously should have thought a little more before posting , in my defence I never called anyone out by name to ridicule or pass judgment on , this i believe is the job of someone much higher than I . Merely commenting on what I have observed and if some are offended I apologise .
As someone commented that I haven't spoken of beliefs yet , which is true however it didn't stop someone from saying they are wrong .
I understand this is a spiritual battle and of course people will and should defend their faith . But surely it should be in a fashion that portrays God and draws people to us with our compassion , understanding and yes sometimes a lot of patience .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

patrick jane
June 11th, 2017, 05:52 AM
Hello again , thankyou for all your comments.
I suppose it is a little ironic and obviously should have thought a little more before posting , in my defence I never called anyone out by name to ridicule or pass judgment on , this i believe is the job of someone much higher than I . Merely commenting on what I have observed and if some are offended I apologise .
As someone commented that I haven't spoken of beliefs yet , which is true however it didn't stop someone from saying they are wrong .
I understand this is a spiritual battle and of course people will and should defend their faith . But surely it should be in a fashion that portrays God and draws people to us with our compassion , understanding and yes sometimes a lot of patience .


Sent from my iPhone using TOLI said your beliefs are wrong, your beliefs about this site.

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 06:00 AM
So for those who are interested and would like a chat about anything really here's my story ;
I started going to church with my husband who I met when I was 13 . He attended an independent fundamentalist baptist church with his family . This was my church home for 25 years . At that point as I started to become more open minded and asked a lot of questions about what I was being taught I realised there was a whole world of other faiths and different ways of looking at things .
For the years that followed I visited different churches spoke to and studied with a few different denominations. From jehovahs witnesses to Latter Day Saints , Muslims , pagans , atheists and spiritualists .
I really enjoy listening to others beliefs and why they believe it , I think it's important to understand other ways so you know what your talking about when it comes to defending your own or so I try not to sound ignorant when talking to others .
In a nutshell I try and keep my faith simple , yes I believe in God and his son Jesus . But that the message Jesus spread is so simple and honest that a lot of people miss it by get bogged down in doctrine .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

exminister
June 11th, 2017, 06:19 AM
It's a sad and lonely world if you only converse with those who have the same opinions as yours .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

The Dali Lama said something like if you only talk you only repeat what you know, but if you listen you might learn something. I like you enjoying learning and don't fear it like some here.
If you choose to post I will enjoy reading it.

exminister
June 11th, 2017, 06:33 AM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging , just telling you why I never post on here . I feel like I'm being judged for my beliefs . And you can post as much scripture as you like , my point still stands . Every time you encounter someone who differs you have such anger and outrage that it is incomprehensible to you just to say "ok , cool , how are you " . My place is not to say who's beliefs are right and wrong . And I strongly belief yours isn't either . But don't twist how I feel for what you are doing. Maybe that's your own guilty conscience.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

They are as agreeable as any Pharisee or Sadducee. Straining at a gnat is their forte. Agree or burn. Easy choice. :rotfl:

musterion
June 11th, 2017, 06:56 AM
Doesn't matter what I write does it ? I'm not judging

But you DID judge, right out of the gate, as Nick pointed out.

Looks like you fit right in with the very thing you say you hate about TOL. :idunno:

musterion
June 11th, 2017, 07:00 AM
in my defence I never called anyone out by name to...pass judgment on

Not by name, but you passed judgment just the same.

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 07:29 AM
I apologised for any offence caused and I think it's is different . Saying I observe hostility on here is a lot different than calling out an individual for their differences and even worse using name calling . Doesnt Jesus warn calling people a fool gets you a one way ticket to hell ?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

patrick jane
June 11th, 2017, 07:35 AM
I apologised for any offence caused and I think it's is different . Saying I observe hostility on here is a lot different than calling out an individual for their differences and even worse using name calling . Doesnt Jesus warn calling people a fool gets you a one way ticket to hell ?


Sent from my iPhone using TOLNobody is judging you

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 07:42 AM
I never said they were .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Nihilo
June 11th, 2017, 08:47 AM
Doesnt Jesus warn calling people a fool gets you a one way ticket to hell ?:idunno:

"O fools"---Jesus Christ, after He rose from the dead

Luke 24:25 (KJV)

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 08:55 AM
Matthew 5:22 NKJV
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgement.And whoever says to his brother "raca!" Shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says "you fool" shall be in danger of hell fire .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 09:05 AM
That is an accusation against the Master accusing him of judging:

He ordered me to judge. Not a pervert like you. You also intentionally left off all that he said. You devil worshiping pig. How long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?




Matthew 7:1 KJV
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Here is the rest. And it shows why you ignored it. Because you are an actor and a hypocrite, you judged me in your post while saying don't judge.

5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 09:07 AM
And because you are outside of Christ, you cannot judge with righteous judgment. You cannot see past the veil because you choose for the veil to be there.

Nihilo
June 11th, 2017, 09:08 AM
Matthew 5:22 NKJV
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgement.And whoever says to his brother "raca!" Shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says "you fool" shall be in danger of hell fire .Like I said, :idunno:. Luke 24:25 (KJV)

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 09:27 AM
He ordered me to judge. Not a pervert like you. You also intentionally left off all that he said. You devil worshiping pig. How long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?




Here is the rest. And it shows why you ignored it. Because you are an actor and a hypocrite, you judged me in your post while saying don't judge.

5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


And because you are outside of Christ, you cannot judge with righteous judgment. You cannot see past the veil because you choose for the veil to be there.

Uhmm, I did not ignore anything but you certainly just did:

Matthew 7:1-3 KJV
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

And besides all the other accusations and evil speaking which you just leveled against me, (blaspheming my heavenly Father by calling me a devil worshiper), you also do not even believe Paul, and that is from many passages and statements, not the least of which is Romans 2:1.

Romans 2:1 KJV
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

You therefore, just as your friend glorydaz, are twisting the words of both Messiah and Paul to suit your own privately held doctrines and justify yourselves in the machinations of your imaginations for the evil speaking that you practice day in and day out. You only condemn yourself with your judging of others and the Word is judging you here, (not me), because you oppose these statements of both the Messiah and Paul. You reject the Messiah when you reject his words just as you have done here, (and blasphemy of the Spirit of my Father is even much worse). It is you who are on the outside and your words prove what I say; for the tree is known by its fruit, and what comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart, and those things defile a person, Matthew 15:18-20.

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 09:31 AM
How long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?

And using the statement Paul made to Bar-Jesus son of Jesus the word-sorcerer does not apply to me because I am not the one who claims "Jesus is YHWH", (the Father). That is your Mid-Acts MAD crowd who makes that claim. Go ask EE and crew, they'll tell you Jesus is your daddy. :rotfl:

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 10:02 AM
Like I said, :idunno:. Luke 24:25 (KJV)

Get a better translation; the word there means unwise or inconsiderate, (not "blockhead").

Luke 24:25 YLT
25 And he said unto them, 'O inconsiderate and slow in heart, to believe on all that the prophets spake!

Nihilo
June 11th, 2017, 10:27 AM
Get a better translation;No.

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 11:17 AM
No.

You do not care that your understanding of the statement you quoted makes the risen Master out to be a hypocrite just so you can stick with your favorite translation?

The passage Deborah quoted:

Matthew 5:22 KJV
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, [G4469 rhaka (http://biblehub.com/greek/4469.htm)] shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, [G3474 moros (http://biblehub.com/greek/3474.htm)] shall be in danger of hell fire.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4469.htm
http://biblehub.com/greek/3474.htm

The passage you referenced:

Luke 24:25 KJV
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, [G453 anoetos (http://biblehub.com/greek/453.htm)] and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

http://biblehub.com/greek/453.htm

These three different words simply do not mean the same things; but if you wish to believe that the Messiah broke his own commandments, even after having been resurrected, I suppose that is your prerogative to imagine it to be so.

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 11:21 AM
Matthew 5:22 NKJV
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgement.And whoever says to his brother "raca!" Shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says "you fool" shall be in danger of hell fire .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

:thumb: By the way, welcome to the forum board. :)

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 12:01 PM
And using the statement Paul made to Bar-Jesus son of Jesus the word-sorcerer does not apply to me because

You are a false prophet and pervert the straight ways of the Lord, so it does. And nice of you to not put this in the main body, but your misdirection will not work with me.

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 12:02 PM
No.

I hope you see what goes on in the religion portion of the forum. "My people" show the Bible, then others say "that doesn't mean what it says" because they don't like what it says and proves them wrong.

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 12:03 PM
Uhmm, I did not ignore anything but you certainly just did:


You left out where he says to judge. On purpose.


Romans 2:1 KJV
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

You are not a brother.

Nick M
June 11th, 2017, 12:05 PM
Hello again , thankyou for all your comments.
I suppose it is a little ironic and obviously should have thought a little more before posting , in my defence I never called anyone out by name to ridicule or pass judgment on

But you did. You said people are childish. Just admit you were flat wrong, and don't beat around the bush. I can tell you first hand how good it feels to come clean and admit your guilt so it is taken away.

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 12:34 PM
Wow you really won't let go will you lol , I have already apologised and said I should have thought a little more before posting .
But I never called anyone person on here childish, I never called anyone on here horrible or mean . However if childish is what sticks with you what I wrote was "name calling is childish " . I never said and hopefully never try to say someone in particular is childish because of a belief they hold .
Just because I have noticed (in my opinion) that some people act in a certain way it doesn't mean that it defines them , hence I try (obviously according to you , failing) not to judge a person. As it would be really silly behaviour to do so about a person I do not know , even then , it's still not my job .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

daqq
June 11th, 2017, 12:53 PM
He ordered me to judge. Not a pervert like you. You also intentionally left off all that he said. You devil worshiping pig. How long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?


Here is the rest. And it shows why you ignored it. Because you are an actor and a hypocrite, you judged me in your post while saying don't judge.

5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

John 7

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


You are a false prophet and pervert the straight ways of the Lord, so it does. And nice of you to not put this in the main body, but your misdirection will not work with me.


You left out where he says to judge. On purpose.


You are not a brother.

And now let's talk about what you yourself left out of the Matthew 7 passage:

Matthew 7:12
12 Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets.

"You devil worshiping pig" . . . :think:

John 10:7-10 KJV
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

This includes the Door of the Tabernacle, of which the court is likened to a sheep pen, (and Paradise), for those who might not know. And the Man whose name is "the Door" is the Messiah: therefore anyone who does not take his or her doctrine to the Messiah likewise refuses to confirm his or her false doctrine with the Man whose name is the Door, and he is indeed the Door of Paradise which is the Door of the Tabernacle, (which is also why the epistle to the Hebrews speaks so much about the heavenly Tabernacle).

And what does the Torah say about bringing our offerings to the Door of the Tabernacle? Anyone who refuses to bring his offerings to the Door of the Tabernacle offers his offerings to devils. That means in the supernal Way of Messiah that one must force his or her own doctrine(s) to comply with the Man whose name is the Door, that is, the Messiah. Anyone who refuses to conform his or her own doctrine with holy Testimony of the Master is therefore none of his.

Leviticus 17:3-7 KJV
3 What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5 To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

You therefore are the outsider because you do not even claim to be of the sheep which are of the house of Israel. And no doubt your claim for yourself is true because you refuse to force your own doctrine to conform to the holy Testimony of the Messiah of Israel and you likewise refuse to be grafted into all Israel even as Paul teaches as well. You have no part in any of this, and are nothing more than a false accuser and a blasphemer, who according to the Scripture offers up his unauthorized offerings out in the open field to devils.

"You devil worshiping pig" . . . :think:

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets. :chuckle:

musterion
June 11th, 2017, 01:22 PM
Wow you really won't let go will you lol , I have already apologised and said I should have thought a little more before posting .
But I never called anyone person on here childish, I never called anyone on here horrible or mean . However if childish is what sticks with you what I wrote was "name calling is childish " . I never said and hopefully never try to say someone in particular is childish because of a belief they hold .
Just because I have noticed (in my opinion) that some people act in a certain way it doesn't mean that it defines them , hence I try (obviously according to you , failing) not to judge a person. As it would be really silly behaviour to do so about a person I do not know , even then , it's still not my job .

You are amazingly self-righteous.

deborah
June 11th, 2017, 01:33 PM
I can see how I come across that way , it's not how I usually talk , but one of things I've noticed on here is you really have to be careful how you word things and put a hell of a lot of disclaimers to your post . It seems there is someone trying to trip you up with what you did or didn't say .
I just wanna chat say hi , enter into a debate or two without constantly being told what I should or shouldn't do or what I am or not .
For every productive comment on here there's 5 wanting to inform me of what I did wrong .
Thanks all , think I will just stick to reading Instead of posting .
Peace x


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Jacob
June 11th, 2017, 01:37 PM
Hi Jacob ,
Thank you for the kind reply . Would be interested to hear why or how your beliefs changed . While I am an avid reader of the bible and have many different version to study and read from I do not believe it is the very infallible ,literal word of God ... pause for shocked gasp ... .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Shalom.

I both observe the 613 Commandments of Torah and believe there is a new covenant for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Do you trust the words of Jesus? I do. Many Bibles have red letters for Jesus' words. I say this to help you in your answer or response.

Shalom.

Jacob

chair
June 11th, 2017, 01:38 PM
You are amazingly self-righteous.
It is especially difficult to accept criticism that you know is correct.

jamie
June 11th, 2017, 02:06 PM
Thanks all , think I will just stick to reading Instead of posting .


Deborah, I enjoy your posts. This is a noisy forum, just tune out the background noise.

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

musterion
June 11th, 2017, 02:09 PM
I can see how I come across that way , it's not how I usually talk , but one of things I've noticed on here is you really have to be careful how you word things and put a hell of a lot of disclaimers to your post . It seems there is someone trying to trip you up with what you did or didn't say .
I just wanna chat say hi , enter into a debate or two without constantly being told what I should or shouldn't do or what I am or not .
For every productive comment on here there's 5 wanting to inform me of what I did wrong .
Thanks all , think I will just stick to reading Instead of posting .
Peace x

Serious question, please.

What must we do to be saved?

Nihilo
June 11th, 2017, 03:49 PM
You do not care that your understanding of the statement you quoted makes the risen Master out to be a hypocrite just so you can stick with your favorite translation?Censored you robotic idiot. I have a right to use the version of the Scripture that I prefer. 'Know why, you robotic idiot? Because each one says He is risen.

The passage Deborah quoted:

Matthew 5:22 KJV
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, [G4469 rhaka (http://biblehub.com/greek/4469.htm)] shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, [G3474 moros (http://biblehub.com/greek/3474.htm)] shall be in danger of hell fire.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4469.htm
http://biblehub.com/greek/3474.htm

The passage you referenced:

Luke 24:25 KJV
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, [G453 anoetos (http://biblehub.com/greek/453.htm)] and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

http://biblehub.com/greek/453.htm

These three different words simply do not mean the same things; but if you wish to believe that the Messiah broke his own commandments, even after having been resurrected, I suppose that is your prerogative to imagine it to be so.Who censored cares, you robotic idiot.

Nihilo
June 11th, 2017, 03:53 PM
I hope you see what goes on in the religion portion of the forum. "My people" show the Bible, then others say "that doesn't mean what it says" because they don't like what it says and proves them wrong.That's just part of their conspiracy theorist spiel. They've got all sorts of tricks they play on people, but it all comes from their deep and pessimistic belief in 1700-year conspiracy theories, or older.

glorydaz
June 11th, 2017, 06:21 PM
Have you "rightly divided" as you and yours claim for yourselves from that passage so often? If so then why do you judge me for quoting the Word you claim to know, love, and even worship? It can only be that you do not believe the Word I quoted from the one whom you claim is God Almighty. I just showed you from the same Word who is the Meshiah, the Christ, and therefore obviously I do not deny him. Your insinuation and judgment thereby are both false. And the more you judge the more the Logos-Word is going to judge you until your false doctrine collapses into the shifty sand of your foundation.

Are you saying you don't know that Jesus Christ is the Word of God?


Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

daqq
June 12th, 2017, 01:36 AM
Censored you robotic idiot. I have a right to use the version of the Scripture that I prefer. 'Know why, you robotic idiot? Because each one says He is risen.
Who censored cares, you robotic idiot.

Uhm, you are the one who is claiming that the Master called two disciples "fools" so that you can justify yourself also calling people fools and idiots just as you have now done to me here in your own words; and you quoted a faulty translation of Luke 24:25 to supposedly prove your point, even after the Master himself already said to his disciples that whosoever calls someone "you fool", (μωρε), shall be liable to the fire of Gehenna, which he plainly says in Matthew 5:22 quoted twice now to you, (and in that passage he uses the same Greek word, "moros", which is used for "moron", "fool", and "idiot").

Yes, you do have the right to choose whatever translation you like; and that is why I tried to show you that your choice of translation is faulty, so that hopefully you might do some of your own study and change your mind about your faulty translation, (at least in that passage). Your hardening of your heart only reveals that you do not care about making the Master look like a hypocrite in your doctrine so long as you get to believe whatsoever it is you desire to believe and justify yourself in the things you say and do. Your response to me proves what I say because you have now called me "you (robotic) idiot" three times in one post, and that is indeed μωρε, and even worse you apparently speak such evil only because I tried to show you why your doctrine is in error. You exalt your ENGLISH TRANSLATION of fallible men over the Testimony of Messiah so that you can justify yourself and your evil speaking.

daqq
June 12th, 2017, 01:47 AM
Are you saying you don't know that Jesus Christ is the Word of God?
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


What I said from the Scripture is that the Logos-Word is not a physical man.
No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time; but the Anointed One is a man.
The very Anointing is the Logos-Word, (see here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?124432-Does-the-Father-know-evil&p=4987250&viewfull=1#post4987250) and continue reading from there).

From the very moment wherein Moses first began to write the first Sefer Torah Scroll, the Word became flesh, (μεμβρανας-lambskins 2Tim 4:13, (Living Words, Living Oracles, Acts 7:38)).

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 01:54 AM
Serious question, please.

What must we do to be saved?

The Baptist in me (and the answer closer to what you want to hear) says you have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour , that he died on the cross to save me from my sins , that he rose again 3 days later and is now at the right hand of his father preparing a place for me . I was also part of the osas crew .


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 02:02 AM
Deborah, I enjoy your posts. This is a noisy forum, just tune out the background noise.

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

Thankyou would really like to chat , but I think I already know the answers to my questions, at least the ones the majority of christians would give me .
I do believe in the almighty creator , and that he sent his son as a messenger to this world to show us how to live and love . But I'm done with church life , and such doctrines that have christians at each others throat .
And as I mentioned earlier as much as sometimes I want to I just can no longer whole heartedly say that the bible is the very word of God .
I wish sometimes I could have the faith I once had , believing it no matter what . But I was tired with my questions being met with such things as , "God moves in mysterious ways " and "His ways are higher than ours " . Basically meaning they don't know either . But I feel my God (yes I said mine ) wants me to search and know . If you have anything that can make me take a second look I would appreciate it .



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patrick jane
June 12th, 2017, 02:03 AM
The Baptist in me (and the answer closer to what you want to hear) says you have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour , that he died on the cross to save me from my sins , that he rose again 3 days later and is now at the right hand of his father preparing a place for me . I was also part of the osas crew .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)Do you still believe that?

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 02:09 AM
Do you still believe that?

I think that is the very struggle I'm going through . Of course I believe Jesus is the son of God . That he was persecuted for his "out there teachings" suffered and died and that he overcame death and is with his father .
The bit I have trouble with is the jumping through hoops to earn something I believe God (being loving and compassionate, and not to sound arrogant) wants to give to us all freely .
Of the course the believing in Jesus part is easy , its the being saved bit , saves from what ? I do not believe in hell fire , I do not believe that going to church every week , or wearing certain clothes or daily bible reading will make me a better Christian .


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 02:18 AM
Shalom.

I both observe the 613 Commandments of Torah and believe there is a new covenant for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Do you trust the words of Jesus? I do. Many Bibles have red letters for Jesus' words. I say this to help you in your answer or response.

Shalom.

Jacob

Wow that's a lot of commandments. I'm afraid I will sound ignorant if I even try and comment about covenants of the Old Testament and the house of Israel and what that means for the future . It is not something I have studied in any detail , but would enjoy learning .
As for the words in red , I can't honestly have 100% faith that these are the words of Jesus . Of course the original scriptures would not have changed in colour to support his words even they were written many years after Jesus . So how logically can new translations claim they were the very words of Jesus .


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patrick jane
June 12th, 2017, 02:27 AM
I think that is the very struggle I'm going through . Of course I believe Jesus is the son of God . That he was persecuted for his "out there teachings" suffered and died and that he overcame death and is with his father .
The bit I have trouble with is the jumping through hoops to earn something I believe God (being loving and compassionate, and not to sound arrogant) wants to give to us all freely .
Of the course the believing in Jesus part is easy , its the being saved bit , saves from what ? I do not believe in hell fire , I do not believe that going to church every week , or wearing certain clothes or daily bible reading will make me a better Christian .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)I you ever believed and trusted 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV - then you are saved whether you go to church etc. or not. I also struggle with eternal torment and hellfire, but the Bible clearly tells us there is punishment and weeping, gnashing

patrick jane
June 12th, 2017, 02:28 AM
I think that is the very struggle I'm going through . Of course I believe Jesus is the son of God . That he was persecuted for his "out there teachings" suffered and died and that he overcame death and is with his father .
The bit I have trouble with is the jumping through hoops to earn something I believe God (being loving and compassionate, and not to sound arrogant) wants to give to us all freely .
Of the course the believing in Jesus part is easy , its the being saved bit , saves from what ? I do not believe in hell fire , I do not believe that going to church every week , or wearing certain clothes or daily bible reading will make me a better Christian .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)I also have many questions that nobody can answer but I let those go and trust God

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 02:48 AM
I also have many questions that nobody can answer but I let those go and trust God

I would class myself as "saved" , I am a spiritual being, part of something bigger and more wonderful than I can comprehend . Im trying to go back to that wonderful moment when I realised the awesomeness of God and the wonderful possibilities he gave me through his son .
It only when I let doctrines in the way , heaven and hell, trinity , Holy Spirit , gifts of the spirit , who should be doing what job , women in the church etc etc that it all becomes crazy and not what God wanted us to be spending our time worrying about .


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marhig
June 12th, 2017, 02:50 AM
Thankyou would really like to chat , but I think I already know the answers to my questions, at least the ones the majority of christians would give me .
I do believe in the almighty creator , and that he sent his son as a messenger to this world to show us how to live and love . But I'm done with church life , and such doctrines that have christians at each others throat .
And as I mentioned earlier as much as sometimes I want to I just can no longer whole heartedly say that the bible is the very word of God .
I wish sometimes I could have the faith I once had , believing it no matter what . But I was tired with my questions being met with such things as , "God moves in mysterious ways " and "His ways are higher than ours " . Basically meaning they don't know either . But I feel my God (yes I said mine ) wants me to search and know . If you have anything that can make me take a second look I would appreciate it .



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To me it's simple, believe in Jesus and his gospel, follow him, have faith and live by the will of God, putting him before ourselves.

It's a way that Jesus himself walked and he is our example to follow :)

Can I ask what questions you asked that were met with "God works in mysterious ways?"If you want the share it that is?

marhig
June 12th, 2017, 02:54 AM
I think that is the very struggle I'm going through . Of course I believe Jesus is the son of God . That he was persecuted for his "out there teachings" suffered and died and that he overcame death and is with his father .
The bit I have trouble with is the jumping through hoops to earn something I believe God (being loving and compassionate, and not to sound arrogant) wants to give to us all freely .
Of the course the believing in Jesus part is easy , its the being saved bit , saves from what ? I do not believe in hell fire , I do not believe that going to church every week , or wearing certain clothes or daily bible reading will make me a better Christian .


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It's being saved from this world of sin and death.

And God does want to give to us freely, but we can't expect to just live as we please and God just give give give can we?

And what do you think hell fire is?

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 03:00 AM
To me it's simple, believe in Jesus and his gospel, follow him, have faith and live by the will of God, putting him before ourselves.

It's a way that Jesus himself walked and he is our example to follow :)

Can I ask what questions you asked that were met with "God works in mysterious ways?"If you want the share it that is?

I believe so too , I think it really is that simple . Even though some might think I'm being naive , and in this world today I understand why .
Lots of things really , the Old Testament being full of war and killings and raping and taking of women . The many so called sacrifices of innocent animals that apparently God loved the smell of . Two stories (that I know of ) where parents were willing to kill their children as thought it would appease God . How badly women were treated (old and new ) , the condoning of slavery ... I could go on but I think you get the gist .
Now I could either do what I always used to do , not fully understand but trust anyway because although God is love he if he kills its righteous as he is the perfect judge . Or I can look at it logically , and say the barbaric things that are described in the bible are not what God wanted or condoned at all , and that although the bible is a fantastic representation of history back then and a glimpse into what people did as a result of their beliefs , it's is ultimately a book written by men .
Not saying it's useless there are many wonderful things I take from the bible , especially the gospels , and when you really study you can see God you just have to wipe away mans fingerprint .



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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 03:07 AM
It's being saved from this world of sin and death.

And God does want to give to us freely, but we can't expect to just live as we please and God just give give give can we?

And what do you think hell fire is?

I believe this world will pass away and all the evil in it weather I believe it or not . Who qualifies to enter paradise in the next life isn't my session to make . What I do know ,like you said is that we cannot expect to treat this earth the people on it and the creator himself with such disregard without penalty, whatever that may look like .
God has given me a life for which I am grateful and and an earth to live it on . Bit from there on in I believe it is my job to live it accordingly with the best that I have been given . We all have wonderful amazing gifts that I believe God has given us to aid us and others in life .
I do not believe in the fiery flames of hell , I have done lots of study in the past as both of my parents have passed away . God would not create such an evil place for something we He himself had made .


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 03:10 AM
As for death , no one escapes that . I think it's the one thing we all fear and go through regardless of faith nor beliefs . That I think is the punishment we go through . But like Jesus foreshadowed it can and will be overcome x


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marhig
June 12th, 2017, 03:10 AM
I believe so too , I think it really is that simple . Even though some might think I'm being naive , and in this world today I understand why .
Lots of things really , the Old Testament being full of war and killings and raping and taking of women . The many so called sacrifices of innocent animals that apparently God loved the smell of . Two stories (that I know of ) where parents were willing to kill their children as thought it would appease God . How badly women were treated (old and new ) , the condoning of slavery ... I could go on but I think you get the gist .
Now I could either do what I always used to do , not fully understand but trust anyway because although God is love he if he kills its righteous as he is the perfect judge . Or I can look at it logically , and say the barbaric things that are described in the bible are not what God wanted or condoned at all , and that although the bible is a fantastic representation of history back then and a glimpse into what people did as a result of their beliefs , it's is ultimately a book written by men .
Not saying it's useless there are many wonderful things I take from the bible , especially the gospels , and when you really study you can see God you just have to wipe away mans fingerprint .



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What if the Bible is full of deeper meanings? I see God as the God of love, Jesus was in his express image and that's how I see God. I know that God can be hard too, just like a parent chastising their children, and I know that he is just, but I know with all my heart that God is full of love, compassion, mercy and forgiveness. As I said just look at Jesus, and we as the love of God.

All the Bible has deeper meanings, it's full of parables and metaphors. For instance, slaying with the sword is putting to death sin with the word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. The whole Bible is like this.

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 03:14 AM
Again I agree , sometimes it's difficult to understand what is literal and what is symbolic , like hell fire .
All we can do is our best with the knowledge and goodness of heart .
When it comes to punishing or chastising his children I think we would have to talk about that a little more . I know people who believe sickness and disabilities are a punishment for sin , etc .




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marhig
June 12th, 2017, 03:35 AM
I believe this world will pass away and all the evil in it weather I believe it or not . Who qualifies to enter paradise in the next life isn't my session to make . What I do know ,like you said is that we cannot expect to treat this earth the people on it and the creator himself with such disregard without penalty, whatever that may look like .
God has given me a life for which I am grateful and and an earth to live it on . Bit from there on in I believe it is my job to live it accordingly with the best that I have been given . We all have wonderful amazing gifts that I believe God has given us to aid us and others in life .
I do not believe in the fiery flames of hell , I have done lots of study in the past as both of my parents have passed away . God would not create such an evil place for something we He himself had made .


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When I say saved from this world of sin and death, I mean the the Spirit of God through Christ, takes us out of this world, brings us from death to life, then the ways of this world will mean nothing to us anymore, and as we turn away to do Gods will, then he will strengthen us in his love so that we are able to overcome our fleshly ways and turn from sin and his love will fill our hearts and the life of Christ will be seen through us.

I agree, only God can decide who goes where, thank goodness, because if it was left to some here, then they would be happily poking a fire ready to throw most is us into it. My hope is for everyone to be saved, God loves everyone of us, but only he can know who will be and who won't be with him.

I believe that hell is a state, God is light, so being away from him and under the will of Satan is hell, and being away from the light of God is being in darkness. Being in the fires of hell, is being under the control of the devil, and we are in hell now when we are in darkness to God and living to please ourselves, doing the works of our flesh, and we are in darkness until we are lifted out of the pit by our saviour Christ Jesus, who brings us from darkness to light, from death to life by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm free now Deborah, free of this world and the ways of Satan, my old life is gone, dead. I'm not in darkness anymore and I care more for the things of God than for the works of the flesh, and I love God and Christ from my heart. And that's what God wants from us, to love him with our all, love our neighbour ourselves, live by his will and abide in his goodness. Love is the key to everything, and Christ Jesus was full of love. He is the way the truth and the life, the only way that we are follow, because he lived it out perfectly.

I'm glad you have started posting, thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

oatmeal
June 12th, 2017, 03:53 AM
Who is shooting? or preparing to shoot?

marhig
June 12th, 2017, 04:01 AM
Again I agree , sometimes it's difficult to understand what is literal and what is symbolic , like hell fire .
All we can do is our best with the knowledge and goodness of heart .

:thumb:


When it comes to punishing or chastising his children I think we would have to talk about that a little more . I know people who believe sickness and disabilities are a punishment for sin , etc . Sent from my iPhone using TOL
And I wonder if they have read the book of Job?

But I also believe that God does chastise those who know him and disobey him.

And when I say chastise children, I don't mean beat them senseless like some wicked people do, but I wasn't overly soft with my children either, I put them right when they go wrong, but I'm always there for them and love then from my heart.. And I believe that God is like this with us.

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 04:11 AM
Again I agree :) . And I'm not trying to be nit picky , as I stated before we can only do the best with the knowledge we have and what we truly believe with the goodness of your heart .
A few years ago I would have used the exact same wording . But now I can't help but study and think what of those words are literal and which are symbolic .
For instance we all know right from wrong , we don't need a church or a pastor/priest , or a book to tell us .i believe it is something our Heavenly Father has already equipped us with . Some people of course choose not to listen whilst others search and try to live out that deeper meaning which you referred to .
And as for Satan (a topic which I'm a studying at the moment) is he really an actual being who we can blame when we make the wrong choice ? Or another symbol/metaphor for that part of us that CHOOSES to make wrong decisions? I put that in bold to emphasise that only we are accountable for the choices we make .
Some more of my questions that go unanswered about Satan are , why is it that according to the bible it seems God has condoned the killing of way more people than Satan has ? When a child dies is that Satan or Gods will ? When someone gets ill is that Satan or God ?
It seems to me in the Old Testament Satan was the guy who carried out Gods dirty work killing and punishing the evil ones , then in the new he becomes our scapegoat, he is something we claim we have to fight daily , where in reality it is only ever ourselves that make the choices we do .


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 04:19 AM
:thumb:


And I wonder if they have read the book of Job?

But I also believe that God does chastise those who know him and disobey him.

And when I say chastise children, I don't mean beat them senseless like some wicked people do, but I wasn't overly soft with my children either, I put them right when they go wrong, but I'm always there for them and love then from my heart.. And I believe that God is like this with us.

Of course job was a friend of God , did nothing wrong so God sent Satan to test him . We all know how the story goes . Does that sound rational or loving to you ? Is that what is happening all over the world today ? In third world countries or even such devastation in our own ? Can I ask who or what is to blame for such tragedies ?
Of course any good parent tries to show there children the correct way to behave and has to correct them in their error . And as the bible states if we know how to love and guide our children imagine how much more God does . However I would not throw my children into a pit of flames for eternity , or stone them to death if they misbehave or want to physically hurt them in any way . God doesn't either because that's not called chastisement that's called evil .


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marhig
June 12th, 2017, 04:55 AM
Of course job was a friend of God , did nothing wrong so God sent Satan to test him . We all know how the story goes . Does that sound rational or loving to you ? Is that what is happening all over the world today ? In third world countries or even such devastation in our own ? Can I ask who or what is to blame for such tragedies ?
Of course any good parent tries to show there children the correct way to behave and has to correct them in their error . And as the bible states if we know how to love and guide our children imagine how much more God does . However I would not throw my children into a pit of flames for eternity , or stone them to death if they misbehave or want to physically hurt them in any way . God doesn't either because that's not called chastisement that's called evil .


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Nor do I, but, I've said what I believe the fires of hell to be, and if we want to live to please our flesh, and put our lives before the will of God, then I believe that God will let us go through it, and if we want the ways of Satan and this world, he'll let us have it, like the prodigal son, yet the father was always awaiting his return but he had to suffer first to realise what he had, and he went through what he did because of the hardness of his heart, because he wanted the waste his inheritance and live his own life. As many of us do.

And the Bible is full of wisdom, we have to have the ears to hear. And the more we are willing to let go of our lives and live by the will of God, the more understanding God will give us. I don't know it all, or understand everything, but I do know that God is merciful and I don't believe that the old testament is only natural it is also spiritual.

As for this world, Satan is here, so there will be suffering, we will all go through suffering in this world, and those born of God will be tried, but going through trials strengthens us. God wouldn't have tried Job, if he didn't think he could go through it, but God knew his man, and he knew that he would be with Job and he would get through it. It says in the Bible that God won't tempt us with more than we can bare, Job was a very strong man of God, and he kept his faith to the end. And no matter what we go through in this life, we are to do the same.

God made this world beautiful, but because Satan is in the heart of man, we are destroying the world around us. We destroy what God creates, until we are born of him then we should bring his love to others.

God made grass, flowers, trees, birds etc. and man covers it with concrete. And this is like our hearts, we bring hardness into our hearts as we sin, but if we believe the truth, and believe in Christ Jesus and the gospel, and take the word of God deep into our hearts when we first hear it, then God softens our heart with his word poured into our hearts like water from the clouds of heaven. And enlightens us and feeds is daily with his bread of heaven which is Christ in the heart.

Anyway, I have to go, my daughter and son and grandkids have come to see me so my house is full :) hope to speak again soon.

Mary :)

marhig
June 12th, 2017, 05:00 AM
Again I agree :) . And I'm not trying to be nit picky , as I stated before we can only do the best with the knowledge we have and what we truly believe with the goodness of your heart .
A few years ago I would have used the exact same wording . But now I can't help but study and think what of those words are literal and which are symbolic .
For instance we all know right from wrong , we don't need a church or a pastor/priest , or a book to tell us .i believe it is something our Heavenly Father has already equipped us with . Some people of course choose not to listen whilst others search and try to live out that deeper meaning which you referred to .
And as for Satan (a topic which I'm a studying at the moment) is he really an actual being who we can blame when we make the wrong choice ? Or another symbol/metaphor for that part of us that CHOOSES to make wrong decisions? I put that in bold to emphasise that only we are accountable for the choices we make .
Some more of my questions that go unanswered about Satan are , why is it that according to the bible it seems God has condoned the killing of way more people than Satan has ? When a child dies is that Satan or Gods will ? When someone gets ill is that Satan or God ?
It seems to me in the Old Testament Satan was the guy who carried out Gods dirty work killing and punishing the evil ones , then in the new he becomes our scapegoat, he is something we claim we have to fight daily , where in reality it is only ever ourselves that make the choices we do .


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I've only just seen this, I'll have a read later, when my house is quieter :)

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 05:16 AM
Nor do I, but, I've said what I believe the fires of hell to be, and if we want to live to please our flesh, and put our lives before the will of God, then I believe that God will let us go through it, and if we want the ways of Satan and this world, he'll let us have it, like the prodigal son, yet the father was always awaiting his return but he had to suffer first to realise what he had, and he went through what he did because of the hardness of his heart, because he wanted the waste his inheritance and live his own life. As many of us do.

And the Bible is full of wisdom, we have to have the ears to hear. And the more we are willing to let go of our lives and live by the will of God, the more understanding God will give us. I don't know it all, or understand everything, but I do know that God is merciful and I don't believe that the old testament is only natural it is also spiritual.

As for this world, Satan is here, so there will be suffering, we will all go through suffering in this world, and those born of God will be tried, but going through trials strengthens us. God wouldn't have tried Job, if he didn't think he could go through it, but God knew his man, and he knew that he would be with Job and he would get through it. It says in the Bible that God won't tempt us with more than we can bare, Job was a very strong man of God, and he kept his faith to the end. And no matter what we go through in this life, we are to do the same.

God made this world beautiful, but because Satan is in the heart of man, we are destroying the world around us. We destroy what God creates, until we are born of him then we should bring his love to others.

God made grass, flowers, trees, birds etc. and man covers it with concrete. And this is like our hearts, we bring hardness into our hearts as we sin, but if we believe the truth, and believe in Christ Jesus and the gospel, and take the word of God deep into our hearts when we first hear it, then God softens our heart with his word poured into our hearts like water from the clouds of heaven. And enlightens us and feeds is daily with his bread of heaven which is Christ in the heart.

Anyway, I have to go, my daughter and son and grandkids have come to see me so my house is full :) hope to speak again soon.

Mary :)

Thankyou for your comment , I will read it through more slowly before I reply . Hope you enjoy your day x


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exminister
June 12th, 2017, 05:24 AM
I can see how I come across that way , it's not how I usually talk , but one of things I've noticed on here is you really have to be careful how you word things and put a hell of a lot of disclaimers to your post . It seems there is someone trying to trip you up with what you did or didn't say .
I just wanna chat say hi , enter into a debate or two without constantly being told what I should or shouldn't do or what I am or not .
For every productive comment on here there's 5 wanting to inform me of what I did wrong .
Thanks all , think I will just stick to reading Instead of posting .
Peace x


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Yeah only people who apologize are self righteous. :rotfl:
If you haven't found the ignore user button it is good to track it down.
You haven't pointed out anything new here and you are right so don't worry about it. There are some very good, thoughtful and kind people here also. Just look for them and avoid red meat before the wolves. Apologies in today's America is a sin.

If I say something once I make my point. If I keep repeating myself I am trying to control others.

patrick jane
June 12th, 2017, 05:27 AM
If I say something once I make my point. If I keep repeating myself I am trying to control others.You've said that before

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 05:28 AM
Yeah only people who apologize are self righteous. :rotfl:
If you haven't found the ignore user button it is good to track it down.
You haven't pointed out anything new here and you are right so don't worry about it. There are some very good, thoughtful and kind people here also. Just look for them and avoid red meat before the wolves. Apologies in today's America is a sin.

If I say something once I make my point. If I keep repeating myself I am trying to control others.

Sounds good , thanks for the advice . There are wonderful conversations on here and look forward to having some with the more gentle members .



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ok doser
June 12th, 2017, 09:03 AM
It's a sad and lonely world if you only converse with those who have the same opinions as yours .



i disagree

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 09:03 AM
Like all angelic beings Satan lives at the discretion of Jesus Christ.

At this time Satan serves a very important purpose.

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 09:44 AM
i disagree

That's ok :) . I think it's wonderful that God created so many different people and personalities.


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 09:45 AM
Like all angelic beings Satan lives at the discretion of Jesus Christ.

At this time Satan serves a very important purpose.

Ok, it's what role and why that intrigues me .


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ok doser
June 12th, 2017, 09:49 AM
That's ok :) . I think it's wonderful that God created so many different people and personalities.


my post was tongue-in-cheek humor, but after i posted it these guys occurred to me:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/65/01/28/6501289f70c8964621d4c8604bdaf975.jpg

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 10:04 AM
my post was tongue-in-cheek humor, but after i posted it these guys occurred to me:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/65/01/28/6501289f70c8964621d4c8604bdaf975.jpg

Ah yes , blows my point right out of the water [emoji57]


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jamie
June 12th, 2017, 12:41 PM
Lots of things really , the Old Testament being full of war and killings and raping and taking of women.


Yep, just like today. The world hasn't changed. A few people have changed, but the world in general hasn't changed.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 12:45 PM
Ok, it's what role and why that intrigues me .


People go to fitness centers to develop and maintain physical strength.

Satan serves the same purpose in a spiritual context. We need that.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 12:49 PM
its the being saved bit , saves from what ?


Saved from eternal nothingness, which is called death.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 12:53 PM
I also have many questions that nobody can answer but I let those go and trust God


"Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." (Paul)

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 12:57 PM
[QUOTE=jamie;5041140]Yep, just like today. The world hasn't changed. A few people have changed, but the world in general hasn't changed.[/

Not sure I follow , either your saying you agree with me that God played no part in Old Testament tragedies or that he is to blame for today's as well ?


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 12:58 PM
Saved from eternal nothingness, which is called death.

At least that's better than hell fire .


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jamie
June 12th, 2017, 01:07 PM
I do not believe in the fiery flames of hell


Neither does Satan.


Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever."
(Ezekiel 28:17-19)

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 01:12 PM
And as for Satan (a topic which I'm a studying at the moment) is he really an actual being


Jesus said he saw Satan fall. There are two possibilities, either he did or he didn't.

Pick one and that is your answer.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 01:22 PM
Not sure I follow , either your saying you agree with me that God played no part in Old Testament tragedies or that he is to blame for today's as well ?


Nothing happens without the Father's approval.

Nothing.

"The voice said, 'Cry out!'
And he said, 'What shall I cry?'

'All flesh is grass,
And all its loveliness is like the flower of the field.
The grass withers, the flower fades,
Because the breath of the Lord blows upon it;
Surely the people are grass.'"
(Isaiah 40:6-7)

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 01:35 PM
Jesus said he saw Satan fall. There are two possibilities, either he did or he didn't.

Pick one and that is your answer.

This can be as easy or difficult as I make it . I just reached for my bible and read the verses mentioned and was formulating my reply when I remembered that I don't (or can't at the moment ) trust the bible as the very word of God , for all the reasons I stated above.
I know that's a big thing to say and almost heresy to someone like yourself but I can't help the way I feel .


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deborah
June 12th, 2017, 01:36 PM
Jesus said he saw Satan fall. There are two possibilities, either he did or he didn't.

Pick one and that is your answer.

If only it were that simple .


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Jacob
June 12th, 2017, 01:38 PM
Wow that's a lot of commandments. I'm afraid I will sound ignorant if I even try and comment about covenants of the Old Testament and the house of Israel and what that means for the future . It is not something I have studied in any detail , but would enjoy learning .
As for the words in red , I can't honestly have 100% faith that these are the words of Jesus . Of course the original scriptures would not have changed in colour to support his words even they were written many years after Jesus . So how logically can new translations claim they were the very words of Jesus .


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Shalom.

There are covenants spoken of in the Torah. One of them is the covenant that God made with Israel at Mount Sinai through the prophet Moses. Have you heard of the Ten Commandments? The Torah, or the Law, was given to the nation of Israel.

It is important to know when you are reading Jesus' words whether they are in red or not.

Shalom.

Jacob

deborah
June 12th, 2017, 02:02 PM
Shalom.

There are covenants spoken of in the Torah. One of them is the covenant that God made with Israel at Mount Sinai through the prophet Moses. Have you heard of the Ten Commandments? The Torah, or the Law, was given to the nation of Israel.

It is important to know when you are reading Jesus' words whether they are in red or not.

Shalom.

Jacob

Ok , so you guys are against the argument that the law has been done away with and we live under grace ? Or are those only for Jewish people ? How does salvation work for you ? If at all ? Sorry for all the questions hope I do t sound too dense .
I agree if we could know for certain what words Jesus directly spoke it would be wonderful . However I think it's not only a long shot but misleading and dangerous to claim that we do .


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Jacob
June 12th, 2017, 02:12 PM
Ok , so you guys are against the argument that the law has been done away with and we live under grace ? Or are those only for Jewish people ? How does salvation work for you ? If at all ? Sorry for all the questions hope I do t sound too dense .
I agree if we could know for certain what words Jesus directly spoke it would be wonderful . However I think it's not only a long shot but misleading and dangerous to claim that we do .


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Shalom.

I encourage you to read Matthew 5:17-20. These are Jesus' words.

If you are a believer saved by the blood of Jesus, and you have eternal life, then you are not under Law but under grace. See Romans 6:14-15.

It is important to obey God's commandments. Obey God's commands.

Shalom.

Jacob

Danoh
June 12th, 2017, 02:31 PM
Jesus said he saw Satan fall. There are two possibilities, either he did or he didn't.

Pick one and that is your answer.

Or He was referring to a yet future event, 2 Cor. 2:11; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 6:11-12, etc., in contrast to Rev. 12.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Thing is...

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Danoh
June 12th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Ok , so you guys are against the argument that the law has been done away with and we live under grace ? Or are those only for Jewish people ? How does salvation work for you ? If at all ? Sorry for all the questions hope I do t sound too dense .
I agree if we could know for certain what words Jesus directly spoke it would be wonderful . However I think it's not only a long shot but misleading and dangerous to claim that we do .


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What had been one intent of the Law prior to the Cross of Christ; 1 Cor. 15:1-4?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Note the But Now...

3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

By the way, verse 31 points back to what verses 19- 20 assert the Law had also proved.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 03:00 PM
This can be as easy or difficult as I make it . I just reached for my bible and read the verses mentioned and was formulating my reply when I remembered that I don't (or can't at the moment ) trust the bible as the very word of God , for all the reasons I stated above.


Prophecy is the proof of the Bible. How well do you know prophecy?

7Spirits
June 12th, 2017, 03:36 PM
I apologised for any offence caused and I think it's is different . Saying I observe hostility on here is a lot different than calling out an individual for their differences and even worse using name calling . Doesnt Jesus warn calling people a fool gets you a one way ticket to hell ?


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No. He says it puts a person in danger of the Lake of Fire. I can see that you are searching but what are you searching for?

When you look to people to represent God, you will be disappointed every time. There's only one certain thing and that is Jesus. There is no tight rope for the human being to walk. Only God With Us could walk that tight rope.

If you are searching, I pray you find. If you are angry at the religious, organized institution, I pray find peace and forgiveness for it.

What does it mean to you that Jesus is your Savior?

Danoh
June 12th, 2017, 04:29 PM
No. He says it puts a person in danger of the Lake of Fire. I can see that you are searching but what are you searching for?

When you look to people to represent God, you will be disappointed every time. There's only one certain thing and that is Jesus. There is no tight rope for the human being to walk. Only God With Us could walk that tight rope.

If you are searching, I pray you find. If you are angry at the religious, organized institution, I pray find peace and forgiveness for it.

What does it mean to you that Jesus is your Savior?

Christians ever represent an interesting perplexity...

On the one hand, one is a Christian because he or she acknowledged one can only come short of the glory of God in one's own strength.

On the other, because that is true, Christians cannot but often prove it true: in how ugly we can be towards one another.

Solution?

One's decided focus during such temptations and or encounters with such in others.

The following...decided...focus - on how that...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Why is that decided...focus...even possible?

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

jamie
June 12th, 2017, 05:53 PM
Only God With Us could walk that tight rope.


And fortunately God is with us.

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." (Philippians 4;13-14)

7Spirits
June 12th, 2017, 07:49 PM
And fortunately God is with us.

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." (Philippians 4;13-14)

Alright cute puppy, I see your point, but that all things isn't the same as His all things. God With Us in the flesh is different than God With Us in our flesh.

Walked on water lately? Do you have cute puppy galoshes for that? Lived a sinless life and managed to treat everyone according to perfect judgment and self control?

I agree with Philippians 4:13 in every way it applies to us forgiven sinners, but I still say that we have no right rooe to walk. There's no need to try to steal His show, right? We don't fill the shoes of Immanuel, He fills us and retired those All Star Sandals. Can we agree with that?

Brother Vinny
June 12th, 2017, 07:53 PM
Your beliefs are false. Stick to the King James Bible

'Cos unicorns.

7Spirits
June 12th, 2017, 07:53 PM
but I still say that we have no right rooe to walk.

Messed that up.

- but I still say that we have no right to claim similarity to Hos walk.

7Spirits
June 12th, 2017, 07:56 PM
Messed that up.

- but I still say that we have no right to claim similarity to Hos walk.

His walk. There, spelling corrected.

Angel4Truth
June 12th, 2017, 11:30 PM
The Baptist in me (and the answer closer to what you want to hear) says you have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour , that he died on the cross to save me from my sins , that he rose again 3 days later and is now at the right hand of his father preparing a place for me . I was also part of the osas crew .


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Do you still believe that?


I think that is the very struggle I'm going through . Of course I believe Jesus is the son of God . That he was persecuted for his "out there teachings" suffered and died and that he overcame death and is with his father .
The bit I have trouble with is the jumping through hoops to earn something I believe God (being loving and compassionate, and not to sound arrogant) wants to give to us all freely .
Of the course the believing in Jesus part is easy , its the being saved bit , saves from what ? I do not believe in hell fire , I do not believe that going to church every week , or wearing certain clothes or daily bible reading will make me a better Christian .


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you contradicted yourself, and clearly do not know what once saved always saved means if you also believe you work for salvation, the 2 positions are polar opposites. Baptists also do not believe wearing certain clothes saves you.

So come clean, what are you really after, spit it out.

You clearly do not believe what the bible says. What criteria do you use, to be a "christian" as you pick from the cafeteria plate?

what criteria do you use to determine some of the things in the word are true but others not, other than your tender "feelings" about it?

Why are some scripture teachings something you believe you should follow but discard the rest?

Do you want to be as god the same as the father of lies?

Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

As to hell, Jesus talked more about it than heaven.

Seems you reject why He came. Means you reject Him.

deborah
June 13th, 2017, 01:41 AM
you contradicted yourself, and clearly do not know what once saved always saved means if you also believe you work for salvation, the 2 positions are polar opposites. Baptists also do not believe wearing certain clothes saves you.

So come clean, what are you really after, spit it out.

You clearly do not believe what the bible says. What criteria do you use, to be a "christian" as you pick from the cafeteria plate?

what criteria do you use to determine some of the things in the word are true but others not, other than your tender "feelings" about it?

Why are some scripture teachings something you believe you should follow but discard the rest?

Do you want to be as god the same as the father of lies?

Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

As to hell, Jesus talked more about it than heaven.

Seems you reject why He came. Means you reject Him.

First let me set straight a few things I know what once saved always saved means , I thought we all did in my church after all the pastor preached it enough . However as one of my many reasons for leaving is that that didn't walk the talk . For my church h and the majority of christians in it , it WAS about how I dressed on a Sunday morning , it was making sure if the pastor popped round for a cup of tea making sure no secular books , music , alcohol etc were on display . It was fine for them when I was there every single worship and bible study arriving first and leaving last but whenever real problems in my life happened they dumped me , brushed it under the carpet because of course I had to be in some kind of sin for things to be going wrong for me .
The first church home we had was for 25 years , I thought they were our family, saw us get married have our first 3 children . However when we left (to a sister church closer to home ) not one member kept in touch . The sister church we moved to happened to pastored by my father in law , but once our great differences in doctrine were discovered we decided it best not to members of that church , that was 3 years ago and my in laws haven't spoken to us since . Just for believing different . Now maybe my cases are the extreme , maybe you think I'm still hurt and bitter . I'm not , I know that no one is perfect and can't rely on man or church or arguing of which bit of the bible is going to "save me" .
My apologies for keep answering some comments with scripture and then denying it's the very word of God in others . I must sound very hypocritical and like I'm cherry picking but it's very hard to unlearn what you have been taught for 20odd years .
I feel free right now but that negative way of thinking just plagues me every now and then . I feel guilt sometimes that I'm still in bed on a SUNDAY morning or that song I just listened to had swear words in etc etc .
Regarding hell as mentioned I did my praying , studying and soul searching on that many years ago for me it is settled and I have peace about it and unless you really want to hear my thoughts on the issue I'm happy to leave your comment right there . But just to say your very comment about hell being mentioned more times than heaven was said more than once by my old pastor , so I decided to take him to task on that . He was wrong and without wanting to offend so are you . Now weather you have been taught it too and blindly follow or weather you are trying to deceive I do not know , but little tricks like that the church uses to keep us in line .


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jamie
June 13th, 2017, 08:45 AM
His walk. There, spelling corrected.


We have the same Spirit Jesus has. He's our big brother.

jamie
June 13th, 2017, 08:52 AM
I know what once saved always saved means


So did Paul, "If, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on"

If we don't press on then we fall short and miss the mark.

Danoh
June 13th, 2017, 10:39 AM
So did Paul, "If, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on"

If we don't press on then we fall short and miss the mark.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Right there is the mark Paul had pressed towards manifesting just a bit more of in his day to day.

The reality of who God had made him in His Son, the moment a person believes That Christ died for their sins.

This reality here...

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Angel4Truth
June 17th, 2017, 10:19 PM
First let me set straight a few things I know what once saved always saved means , I thought we all did in my church after all the pastor preached it enough . However as one of my many reasons for leaving is that that didn't walk the talk.

By your definition of it, or the word of Gods definition? You have said you dont agree with some of scripture, so whats your criteria that your pastor didnt do so?


For my church h and the majority of christians in it , it WAS about how I dressed on a Sunday morning

Weird church, if what you say is accurate.


it was making sure if the pastor popped round for a cup of tea making sure no secular books , music , alcohol etc were on display.

Why would alcohol be on display at a church? You say you were baptist but you are describing church of christ, with the how you dressed and now music stuff, they are who teach those things.



It was fine for them when I was there every single worship and bible study arriving first and leaving last but whenever real problems in my life happened they dumped me, brushed it under the carpet because of course I had to be in some kind of sin for things to be going wrong for me .

yes, its certainly Gods fault that you attended what sounds like a poor church, you do know there are others, no?



The first church home we had was for 25 years , I thought they were our family, saw us get married have our first 3 children . However when we left (to a sister church closer to home ) not one member kept in touch. The sister church we moved to happened to pastored by my father in law , but once our great differences in doctrine were discovered we decided it best not to members of that church , that was 3 years ago and my in laws haven't spoken to us since . Just for believing different . Now maybe my cases are the extreme , maybe you think I'm still hurt and bitter . I'm not , I know that no one is perfect and can't rely on man or church or arguing of which bit of the bible is going to "save me" .
My apologies for keep answering some comments with scripture and then denying it's the very word of God in others . I must sound very hypocritical and like I'm cherry picking but it's very hard to unlearn what you have been taught for 20odd years .
I feel free right now but that negative way of thinking just plagues me every now and then . I feel guilt sometimes that I'm still in bed on a SUNDAY morning or that song I just listened to had swear words in etc etc .
Regarding hell as mentioned I did my praying , studying and soul searching on that many years ago for me it is settled and I have peace about it and unless you really want to hear my thoughts on the issue I'm happy to leave your comment right there . But just to say your very comment about hell being mentioned more times than heaven was said more than once by my old pastor , so I decided to take him to task on that . He was wrong and without wanting to offend so are you . Now weather you have been taught it too and blindly follow or weather you are trying to deceive I do not know , but little tricks like that the church uses to keep us in line .

So you attended church, to judge others there who needed a savior as bad as you did, instead of for God? As far as "keep you in line" is that what you disagree with about the word of God too, that you have to admit you are a sinner in need of salvation that only comes through Christ?

Did you judge them all in your church like you have the word of God, and proclaim there, that God didnt mean what He said about salvation and hell?

Angel4Truth
June 17th, 2017, 10:29 PM
deborah, actually read the bible regularly, then you'll know if a church is teaching whats in it.

Its why we were given the word of God, to test the spirits.

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him.

deborah
June 18th, 2017, 02:00 AM
By your definition of it, or the word of Gods definition? You have said you dont agree with some of scripture, so whats your criteria that your pastor didnt do so?

I know what I was taught about osas using scripture , which I what I quoted and as I mentioned its hard to unlearn something you have been taught is truth for many years years. However now no I am not sure we can rely on the bible for the whole truth.

Weird church, if what you say is accurate.

Don't know about weird but very legalistic. Most probably a cultural clash too as the pastor was American.
and when he got behind that pulpit you never really knew if he was speaking directly from scripture or his own interpretation of it . I felt it was all very superficial and yes I was a very judgmental person back then even though a good Christian never would admit to it I thought I knew something every one else did not , and that although perfectly nice and kind they did not go to church every week or read or even possess a bible , my opinion of them was that they were not Christian and they needed my help to "look good " in front of God.The general train of thought in the churches I have been in is that as long as you look the part , and are there for every event in church and can quote scripture , don't swear or listen or read secular stuff these were all things which got you more closer to God.
I'm hoping now I'm not that person , as I look back with embarrassment . I realised I had to flip it around , its whats on the inside that God looks at. Its how we interact with others even those whom we don't agree. The bible or church will not and cant not "save " me .

Why would alcohol be on display at a church? You say you were baptist but you are describing church of christ, with the how you dressed and now music stuff, they are who teach those things.

No not on display at church, I said "when the pastor popped around (to my house)for a cup of tea".It was all a list of unwritten rules and an invisible line you shouldn't cross if you were wanting the privaliges of a good Christian in church.i went out once to a club with my husband to a fancy dress party. The pictures of the event were posted on social media , my pastors wife came round and told me I had sinned against God for wearing inappropriate clothes, drinking alcohol and dancing to secular music. She then said I was no longer able to teach sunday school . Then the pastor delighted me with a visit where he said I was not welcome back into church until I acknowledged my sin and apologised to the church, my husband then threw him out of our home when he said I was acting like a whore.


yes, its certainly Gods fault that you attended what sounds like a poor church, you do know there are others, no?

Never said it was Gods fault , I already mentioned in an above post that no church is perfect , it is full of humans .yes I attended 4 other churches after that one but all seem to care only about outward appearance and as a result I never really had a relationship with God or understood His love , I was always living to please and in fear of God.


So you attended church, to judge others there who needed a savior as bad as you did, instead of for God? As far as "keep you in line" is that what you disagree with about the word of God too, that you have to admit you are a sinner in need of salvation that only comes through Christ?

Did you judge them all in your church like you have the word of God, and proclaim there, that God didnt mean what He said about salvation and hell?

Yes I'm ashamed to say I did judge them , maybe not out loud but in my heart .Of course now I know the church is meant for the broken ,lost and the suffering not a place for the perfect or those who think they are. A church quite near to me is an example of such a place, where it's members are mainly made up of single young men who are homeless and battling addiction, quite often you seem them either suffering withdrawals or even high , but they are still made welcome and because of that love they keep turning up , I think in most other churches I have been in they would have been escorted out of the building by the "elders" of the church.
And yes of course I questioned and studied many times about what I was told about heaven and especially hell,as mentioned above my pastor said the exact same thing as you about hell being mentioned more times than heaven , and it really doesn't take much reading or studying to see that that is simply not true . My pastor didn't like to hear it either .

jamie
June 18th, 2017, 11:14 AM
And yes of course I questioned and studied many times about what I was told about heaven and especially hell


According to the KJV Jesus died and went to hell, but he bounded back good as new.

deborah
June 18th, 2017, 11:48 AM
According to the KJV Jesus died and went to hell, but he bounded back good as new.

Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


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jamie
June 18th, 2017, 01:48 PM
Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


Sheol means: H7585 שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל she'ôl she'ôl sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Hades means: G86 ᾅδης hadēs hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

Gehenna means: G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Abraham's bosom is a metaphor for an intimate closeness such as "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

Paradise is a metaphor for the restitution of all things. (Acts 3:21)

deborah
June 18th, 2017, 03:04 PM
Sheol means: H7585 [emoji767]ְׁאֹל [emoji767]ְׁאוֹל she'ôl she'ôl sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Hades means: G86 ᾅδης hadēs hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

Gehenna means: G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Abraham's bosom is a metaphor for an intimate closeness such as "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

Paradise is a metaphor for the restitution of all things. (Acts 3:21)

Yes I know what they meanings are , to which did Jesus go ?


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jamie
June 18th, 2017, 05:25 PM
Yes I know what they meanings are , to which did Jesus go ?


Jesus was buried in a tomb, a type of grave.

Jesus was a man and it has been appointed for all humans to die once. However, Jesus' death was for sin, which is spiritual and requires a second death. Jesus had not sinned so he was not worthy of the second death and was raised to life.

Gehenna is a trash fire to destroy the earth and the bodies of any who choose the second death. Unless a person rejects Jesus Christ the second death is not something to be concerned about.

Angel4Truth
June 18th, 2017, 08:05 PM
Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


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Seems you know the bible, yet reject it. Or rather just the parts you do not like. Satan did that too " You shall not surely die" - "you can be as God"

Its all rebellion when you think you are more moral or right than He.

Angel4Truth
June 18th, 2017, 08:08 PM
Yes I'm ashamed to say I did judge them , maybe not out loud but in my heart .Of course now I know the church is meant for the broken ,lost and the suffering not a place for the perfect or those who think they are. A church quite near to me is an example of such a place, where it's members are mainly made up of single young men who are homeless and battling addiction, quite often you seem them either suffering withdrawals or even high , but they are still made welcome and because of that love they keep turning up , I think in most other churches I have been in they would have been escorted out of the building by the "elders" of the church.
And yes of course I questioned and studied many times about what I was told about heaven and especially hell,as mentioned above my pastor said the exact same thing as you about hell being mentioned more times than heaven , and it really doesn't take much reading or studying to see that that is simply not true . My pastor didn't like to hear it either .

Maybe he didnt because he knows more about it than you who doubt the validity of the word, you clearly dont know as well as you think, try this to learn something.


Does the Bible speak more about Hell than Heaven? (https://bible.org/question/does-bible-speak-more-about-hell-heaven)

Jesus speaks about hell without saying hell also, which in this post:

Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


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your own words.

I will leave you to your games now.

deborah
June 19th, 2017, 01:34 AM
Jesus was buried in a tomb, a type of grave.

Jesus was a man and it has been appointed for all humans to die once. However, Jesus' death was for sin, which is spiritual and requires a second death. Jesus had not sinned so he was not worthy of the second death and was raised to life.

Gehenna is a trash fire to destroy the earth and the bodies of any who choose the second death. Unless a person rejects Jesus Christ the second death is not something to be concerned about.

Hi ,
Yes I understand the story of his death and resurrection.
Gehenna however was a real place in Jerusalem where people used to burn their rubbish and sacrifice the odd child here and there , which by the way God said was an abomination to Him ?
Are you suggesting that a burning bonfire in Jerusalem a few thousand years ago is going to be the final resting place for those who don't believe ?


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deborah
June 19th, 2017, 01:39 AM
Seems you know the bible, yet reject it. Or rather just the parts you do not like. Satan did that too " You shall not surely die" - "you can be as God"

Its all rebellion when you think you are more moral or right than He.

Yes like I have said after nearly 30 you can't just forget what you have been taught. Talking about the bible and its contents comes easy to me but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as Gods literal word . I have come to think that it's bordering on dangerous to hold this book in such a high place of almost worship and severe condemnation for those who don't . The bible just like church and even us "christians" are merely pointers to God , whilst all useful tools when's used properly it is only God I hold in such high regard .


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deborah
June 19th, 2017, 01:44 AM
Maybe he didnt because he knows more about it than you who doubt the validity of the word, you clearly dont know as well as you think, try this to learn something.


Does the Bible speak more about Hell than Heaven? (https://bible.org/question/does-bible-speak-more-about-hell-heaven)

Jesus speaks about hell without saying hell also, which in this post:


your own words.

I will leave you to your games now.

Again as I'm sure you have studied for yourself all the above words and phrases represent different places or "state" of the dead . They do not all mean fire and flames (which is what I have been taught about hell) . And if you don't think of hell that way that please accept my apologies .
When translating the bible they inserted the Anglo Saxon word of "hell" to describe all others words pertaining to the place/state of the dead.again very misleading unless your willing to dig deeper . I won't explain each one as Jamie already did it perfectly .


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deborah
June 19th, 2017, 01:51 AM
Again as I'm sure you have studied for yourself all the above words and phrases represent different places or "state" of the dead . They do not all mean fire and flames (which is what I have been taught about hell) . And if you don't think of hell that way that please accept my apologies .
When translating the bible they inserted the Anglo Saxon word of "hell" to describe all others words pertaining to the place/state of the dead.again very misleading unless your willing to dig deeper . I won't explain each one as Jamie already did it perfectly .


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Oh sorry forgot to add , that even though you maybe correct about the use of all those different words by Jesus to describe "hell" that still doesnt equal more times than heaven .
Why is it you are very quick to respond to me when you disagree with me or think I'm wrong yet 3 or 4 times now I have said you are wrong about this particular subject , yet you are unwilling to prove your point ?


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patrick jane
June 19th, 2017, 01:51 AM
Yes like I have said after nearly 30 you can't just forget what you have been taught. Talking about the bible and its contents comes easy to me but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as Gods literal word . I have come to think that it's bordering on dangerous to hold this book in such a high place of almost worship and severe condemnation for those who don't . The bible just like church and even us "christians" are merely pointers to God , whilst all useful tools when's used properly it is only God I hold in such high regard .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)2 Timothy 3:16 KJV -

jamie
June 19th, 2017, 08:22 AM
Are you suggesting that a burning bonfire in Jerusalem a few thousand years ago is going to be the final resting place for those who don't believe ?


Jesus used the trash fires of the Gehenna valley as a metaphor. Forget about Gehenna, it's not applicable to you.

Focus on the first resurrection just as Paul did.