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View Full Version : Why Calvinism, Catholicism, All Religions Are Self Defeating



Robert Pate
April 28th, 2017, 09:24 AM
All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

"For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.

beloved57
April 28th, 2017, 10:33 AM
All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

"For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.

Dude, you dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You teach those He shed it for are still lost !

Robert Pate
April 28th, 2017, 01:54 PM
Dude, you dont even believe the Blood of Christ saves. You teach those He shed it for are still lost !

What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to send you to hell.

beloved57
April 28th, 2017, 02:23 PM
What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to send you to hell.
What kind of Gospel preacher preaches that Christ death alone does not save sinners that He died for?

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Epoisses
April 28th, 2017, 03:50 PM
What kind of Gospel preacher preaches that Christ death alone does not save sinners that He died for?

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So why do Lutherans believe that Christ's shed blood was for all sin and all sinners and still understand that there is an election according to grace. Calvinist's try to make the cross the place where God chooses one and rejects the other but this is just stupidity on so many levels. You have no answer for this.

Truster
April 29th, 2017, 02:38 AM
All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. The word "Faith" means to have confidence or to be dependent upon a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy. We who are saved have entered into God's rest. We have ceased from our works and religion and are resting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

"For we which believe do enter into his rest, as he said, AS I HAVE SWORN IN MY WRATH, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

The work of salvation was already completed in God's mind before he ever created the heavens and the earth, Revelation 13:8. God looked off into the future and saw his Son Jesus Christ atoning for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The work of Christ is a completed work, we are called to rest in that work.

It is not possible to rest or have faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam. It is not humanity's fault that they are born sinners after Adam. Therefore, a God that would condemn lost sinners to hell before they are born is an unjust, unmerciful God that cannot be trusted. It is not humanly possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism. This makes Calvinism self defeating.

To believe that Jesus has NOT atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To not believe that Jesus is Lord, is to die in your sins. "For if you believe not that I am he, You will die in your sins" John 8:24. Again, we have this self defeating doctrine that Jesus has failed to atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Any doctrine or religion that undermines the work and the person of Jesus Christ is self defeating and is anti-Christ. Catholicism is self defeating because they do not believe that salvation is by faith alone. They believe that they must participate in their salvation by the works of the law. That is not saving faith. Saving faith is a faith that has ceased from their own works and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.

The danger of people like you is that along the broad way you hear words coming across from the narrow way and say to yourself, "That sounds good. I'll use that". Then you do, but we* realise that you are repeating parrot fashion with no comprehension of what you are repeating.

Spurgeon was a master at this. He had an army of young men who would research and write his sermons while he pretended to have had the experience and understanding. I'm sure that among those young men there were some genuinely converted souls, but Spurgeon was not one of them and neither are you.

we* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

Robert Pate
April 29th, 2017, 07:41 AM
The danger of people like you is that along the broad way you hear words coming across from the narrow way and say to yourself, "That sounds good. I'll use that". Then you do, but we* realise that you are repeating parrot fashion with no comprehension of what you are repeating.

Spurgeon was a master at this. He had an army of young men who would research and write his sermons while he pretended to have had the experience and understanding. I'm sure that among those young men there were some genuinely converted souls, but Spurgeon was not one of them and neither are you.

we* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.


Without the Gospel you cannot be saved. Only those that have embraced Christ and his Gospel will be saved. You have embraced something, but it is not Christ and his Gospel. Perhaps it is Calvinism. You don't appear to have many friends on this Forum. Why is that?

jsanford108
April 30th, 2017, 07:23 PM
Many will try to refute faith without works by quoting James 2:17. James was one of the first books written in the New Testament. It was written to the Jewish people and not to Gentiles. Many in the early church, including James, were not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. To live according to rules, laws, commandments, is to NOT enter into HIS rest.

How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


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Epoisses
April 30th, 2017, 08:50 PM
How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


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So why did Paul focus on Christian service and duty from Romans 12 and on? Works are part of the gospel whether you believe it or not. When we understand that our Salvation is totally outside of ourselves our works become acceptable to God because they are motivated by love and an appreciation for what he has done for us that we could never do for ourselves. Everything that proceeds from our mouths and hands and feet is a work according to scripture. To say that believers produce no works is sheer lunacy by the deranged Reformed and their unholy crusade against all things personal.

jsanford108
April 30th, 2017, 10:29 PM
So why did Paul focus on Christian service and duty from Romans 12 and on? Works are part of the gospel whether you believe it or not. When we understand that our Salvation is totally outside of ourselves our works become acceptable to God because they are motivated by love and an appreciation for what he has done for us that we could never do for ourselves. Everything that proceeds from our mouths and hands and feet is a work according to scripture. To say that believers produce no works is sheer lunacy by the deranged Reformed and their unholy crusade against all things personal.

Exactly. Glad somebody else agrees with James and the Gospel.


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meshak
May 1st, 2017, 04:35 AM
Exactly. Glad somebody else agrees with James and the Gospel.


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He is one of very few who accepts James' word.

there are too many "faith only" believers in Christian community.

Robert Pate
May 1st, 2017, 01:11 PM
How interesting that you know the Epistle that obliterates your points against your doctrines, and try to head it off with a made-up theory about it.

If it was absent of the fullness of truth, why is it in the Holy Written Word? Which is classified as inerrant? Your proposes theory of James not knowing the law had been abolished is utter filth. There is no evidence of this anywhere, be it Christian or secular. This theory is in direct contradiction with historical evidence. I have been over this multiple times with you.

Your theory cannot even withstand the scrutiny it places on others.


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No, James did not know that Jesus had abolished the law, this is why he wrote Acts 15:21.

jsanford108
May 1st, 2017, 03:20 PM
No, James did not know that Jesus had abolished the law, this is why he wrote Acts 15:21.

James didn't write Acts. That is basic knowledge and easily found in a plethora of sources. Even so, that still doesn't prove your theory that James didn't know the law had been abolished, and still does not address how James could be included in the Holy Scriptures/Bible, if the fullness of truth was absent in any capacity.

Robert Pate
May 1st, 2017, 03:31 PM
James didn't write Acts. That is basic knowledge and easily found in a plethora of sources. Even so, that still doesn't prove your theory that James didn't know the law had been abolished, and still does not address how James could be included in the Holy Scriptures/Bible, if the fullness of truth was absent in any capacity.

The book of James is one of the first books of the New Testament. Many did not understand that Jesus had abolished the law. Acts 15:21 are the words of James. I am sure that James like many others came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law at a later date. Read all of Acts chapter 15 and you will see that there was much disputing between those that wanted to keep the law and Paul that knew that the law had been abolished.

Epoisses
May 1st, 2017, 06:25 PM
The book of James is one of the first books of the New Testament. Many did not understand that Jesus had abolished the law. Acts 15:21 are the words of James. I am sure that James like many others came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law at a later date. Read all of Acts chapter 15 and you will see that there was much disputing between those that wanted to keep the law and Paul that knew that the law had been abolished.

Very true. James was part of the old guard who clung to the remnants of Judaism. His book was left in the bible as a check against cheap grace like Truster teaches where believers produce no works at all which is stupidity.

jsanford108
May 1st, 2017, 07:38 PM
The book of James is one of the first books of the New Testament. Many did not understand that Jesus had abolished the law. Acts 15:21 are the words of James. I am sure that James like many others came into a better understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law at a later date. Read all of Acts chapter 15 and you will see that there was much disputing between those that wanted to keep the law and Paul that knew that the law had been abolished.

How do you know James wrote that part of Acts? Simple question.


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Robert Pate
May 2nd, 2017, 07:32 AM
How do you know James wrote that part of Acts? Simple question.


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James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. James also sent men to spy on Peter to see if he was eating with Gentiles, a Jewish no, no. Galatians 2:11-12. This caused a big stink. Paul had to straighten them out, Galatians 2:14-21.

The Bible is an honest book it does not hide the sins or the mistakes of God's people.

jsanford108
May 2nd, 2017, 08:22 AM
James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. James also sent men to spy on Peter to see if he was eating with Gentiles, a Jewish no, no. Galatians 2:11-12. This caused a big stink. Paul had to straighten them out, Galatians 2:14-21.

The Bible is an honest book it does not hide the sins or the mistakes of God's people.

So, rather than answer, you just throw out another unfounded/unbiblical theory, unrelated to the question posed. Interesting tactic.


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Robert Pate
May 2nd, 2017, 08:28 AM
So, rather than answer, you just throw out another unfounded/unbiblical theory, unrelated to the question posed. Interesting tactic.


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I answered the question. You didn't like the answer.

jsanford108
May 2nd, 2017, 10:44 AM
I answered the question. You didn't like the answer.

So a made up answer counts? Well no worries for the rest of life, if that logic is true.


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Robert Pate
May 2nd, 2017, 11:39 AM
So a made up answer counts? Well no worries for the rest of life, if that logic is true.


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Nothing was made up. When James wrote the book of James, he was not aware that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. This is reflected in Acts 15:21. Also in Galatians 2:12.