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Truster
April 21st, 2017, 02:21 AM
Nice, as mankind imagines someone nice, would conduct himself.

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 02:54 AM
Elohim is love. Does that mean He has an obligation to be "nice"?

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 03:37 AM
If Elohim was nice Genesis 1:4 might have stated:

And Elohim saw the light that was "nice".

Genesis 1:10 would have stated and Elohim saw that it was "nice".

beameup
April 21st, 2017, 03:45 AM
Which elohim?

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 03:54 AM
Which elohim?

The one who deserves a capital "E" in English. Try and keep up.

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 03:56 AM
PS

I was once told by one of my lectures that you can gauge the depth on a persons understanding by the questions they ask. If understanding was water you'd be described as, damp.

beameup
April 21st, 2017, 03:59 AM
The one who deserves a capital "E" in English. Try and keep up.
'elohiym is plural
PS: there are no "capitals" in the Hebrew

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 04:01 AM
'elohiym is plural
PS: there are no "capitals" in the Hebrew

That's why I said, "in English". Try and keep up slow coach.

beameup
April 21st, 2017, 05:00 AM
Is Elohim "nice"?
Nice, as mankind imagines someone nice, would conduct himself.
Huh? :confused:

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7
Maybe it would help if you consulted a Bible...

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 05:03 AM
Huh? :confused:

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7
Maybe it would help if you consulted a Bible...


Is the function of hyperbole that alien to you.

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 05:05 AM
PS Paul uses it, but there again, that would explain why you don't understand the scriptures...


But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of Elohim: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Clete
April 21st, 2017, 06:24 AM
NO!

God is kind but He most certainly is not nice.

God does not compromise, He does not waver, He does not give in. He is a Rock that will not hesitate to crush you into powder. (Matt. 21:44)

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 09:03 AM
NO!

God is kind but He most certainly is not nice.

God does not compromise, He does not waver, He does not give in. He is a Rock that will not hesitate to crush you into powder. (Matt. 21:44)

In the case of the elect He crushed His Son in our* stead.

Our* The redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

Clete
April 21st, 2017, 05:53 PM
In the case of the elect He crushed His Son in our* stead.

Our* The redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.
Calvinism is stupidity but ignoring that for the moment...

There is no doubt that His Kindness and Mercy is beyond measure. But He is NOT nice. Not, at least, in the sense of being pleasant for the sake of being pleasant.

I have no doubt at all that God is fun to be around and would make enjoyable, engaging, polite and uplifting company but only if you are righteous and know your place. God is not your buddy. He's your God and your King. Cross Him at risk to your very soul.


Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 06:24 PM
Calvinism is stupidity but ignoring that for the moment...

There is no doubt that His Kindness and Mercy is beyond measure. But He is NOT nice. Not, at least, in the sense of being pleasant for the sake of being pleasant.

I have no doubt at all that God is fun to be around and would make enjoyable, engaging, polite and uplifting company but only if you are righteous and know your place. God is not your buddy. He's your God and your King. Cross Him at risk to your very soul.


Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I agree calvinism is stupidity.

Election however is a Biblical teaching.

Truster
April 21st, 2017, 06:25 PM
PS

If I hadn't been elected to salvation I'd be dead.

Clete
April 21st, 2017, 07:45 PM
I agree calvinism is stupidity.

Election however is a Biblical teaching.

That entirely depends on what you mean by the word.

If it even smells a little like the Calvinist idea, its blasphemy.

ttruscott
April 21st, 2017, 08:01 PM
Huh? :confused:

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7
Maybe it would help if you consulted a Bible...

Evil is wrongly interpreted as moral evil in this verse because...1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. When we strike a match and see darkness come out and fill the room, we can believe darkness and other metaphors for moral evil can come from HIM.

beameup
April 21st, 2017, 08:24 PM
Evil is wrongly interpreted as moral evil in this verse because...1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. When we strike a match and see darkness come out and fill the room, we can believe darkness and other metaphors for moral evil can come from HIM.

The more accurate translation would be chaos
God does create chaos among his enemies (for example).


I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the LORD, who does all these things.
- Isa 45:7 ESV (Dead Sea Scroll)

Truster
April 22nd, 2017, 01:42 AM
Evil is wrongly interpreted as moral evil in this verse because...1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. When we strike a match and see darkness come out and fill the room, we can believe darkness and other metaphors for moral evil can come from HIM.

In attempting to honour the Eternal Almighty you succeed only in denigrating Him, His sovereign will and His Almighty power. You should stop posting and talking of Him before you reach the inevitable blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Truster
April 22nd, 2017, 01:43 AM
The more accurate translation would be chaos
God does create chaos among his enemies (for example).


Poor, deluded, self justifying, heretic.

beameup
April 22nd, 2017, 07:44 AM
Truster
Poor, deluded, self justifying, heretic.

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. - Proverbs 26:4

Tambora
April 22nd, 2017, 08:43 AM
NICER THAN GOD

Are Christians too nice? Well, Christians today are nicer than God.

Or at least they are trying to be so. In the Church there is a standard of niceness that Jesus failed to reach while on earth. Comparing God's attitude and behavior with that of the Church today shows that believers are far more polite, tolerant, understanding and respectful to the wicked than God is.

The Church is also less offensive, rude and sarcastic than God's men in the Bible were. And no Christian would ever be caught dead mocking the wicked, as God's men in the Bible sometimes did.
The Bible sometimes ministers through ridicule, humor, sarcasm, name-calling, and even mocking. For example, God mocked and defeated the Midianites by giving them a nightmare in which they were attacked by a loaf of bread (Jud. 7:13-14). Elijah, just prior to executing 450 prophets of Baal, "mocked them" as the Bible says, telling them to yell louder to their god so that Baal could hear their prayers since he was either on a trip, sleeping or in the restroom (Hebrew, "private place," 1 Ki. 18:27; and 2 Ki. 6:8-20). And Jesus rebuked the multitudes for not responding in faith to John the Baptist's message as He ridiculed them: "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?" (Mat. 11:7).
The especially harsh term hypocrite is used in the Gospels twenty-three times. Christ often insulted the scribes, Pharisees and lawyers. He even called the Pharisees blind guides (Mat. 23:16, 24) and sons of hell (Mat. 23:15). Jesus spoke unkind words unacceptable today. He said to Peter "Get behind me, Satan" (Mat. 16:23). He told the Pharisees "You are of your father the devil" (John 8:44), and made a whip and cleared "thieves" from the temple (Mat. 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45-46; John 2:14-15).

Gentiles (as symbols of the godless) and sodomites are called "dogs" in the Bible. (For "dog" as a metaphor for filthy (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A11&version=NKJV) homosexuals (http://kgov.com/homosexuality) see Deut. 23:17-18 and (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/revelation/22.htm) Rev. 22:15. And for this term of derision referring also to Gentiles as symbols of the ungodly see Mat. 7:6 with Lev. 22:10; Mat. 15:26; Ps. 22:16, 20; 59:5-6; Phil. 3:2, with this usage easily originating with Ex. 22:31 and Deut. 14:21.) And Jesus was harsh not only to the Pharisees, as some believers wrongly assume, because if so, that would mean that He only loved religious leaders. But the Lord was harsh with all the unrepentant. See for example His name calling use of the word "hypocrite". Jesus instructs believers to not "cast your pearls before swine" (Mat. 7:6). Yet the silly dilemma now is, "Who could Christ possibly have meant by that? For we are too loving, tolerant, polite and respectful to refer to any human being by that mean-spirited term."

In the King James Version, the seductive women among the people of God are worse than "whores" (Ezek. 16:33). That crude term appears in the Bible dozens of times. The men who use those women are "whoremongers" (1 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 13:4; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), which is the most raw term in the English language to describe promiscuous men. God describes other sinners in terms of filthy excrement (Isa. 64:6) and even worse (2 Ki. 18:27; Isa. 36:12). Sinners truly are repulsive, regardless of how men may try to sanitize them.

Since 1991, our radio program, Bob Enyart Live, has been an occasionally harsh and often confrontational news-talk show. The program does not cater to what Christians expect and is sometimes criticized for being offensive.

http://kgov.com/files/images/god-6-pt-0.png (http://theologyonline.com/forumdisplay.php?42-Bob-Enyart-Live)Jesus was offensive. Most people were offended by him. The proof for John the Baptist that Jesus was the Christ was that the blind see, the lame walk and the majority are "offended" by Him (Mat. 11:2-19). As Jesus said, "Blessed is he who is not offended because of Me" (Mat. 11:6; Luke 7:23). In Galilee, Jesus did not plead with his neighbors to understand Him when "they were offended at Him" (Mat. 13:57; Mark 6:3). If unbelievers are offended, so be it (cf. Luke 14:3-4; John 5:8-16). "Shake off the dust from your feet" (Mat. 10:14). But alas, that is no longer a Christian attitude.

Christ's apostles asked Him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard [Your] saying?" (Mat. 15:12). What is the accepted Christian response today after an offense is taken? Quick, apologize! Ask for forgiveness! Tell them you are sorry. How did Jesus respond? He said to ignore the complaints of the unbelievers: "Let them alone. They are blind," (Mat. 15:14). Today, many Christians condemn Christ's attitude as unloving.

Jesus promised his followers, "you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended" (Mat. 24:9-10). When a Canadian started his call into our talk show with a vicious, "Bob, I hate you..." The response was "Cool. Great! Because Jesus taught that 'if they hated Me, they will hate you'" (see John 15:18-19; 17:14; Mat. 10:22; Luke 21:17). And why did the world hate Jesus? Not because He was overly nice, but as He said, "The world... hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil (John 7:7). Today Christians think if the world hates them, they have failed. The reverse should be true. It is not that a Christian wants to be hated; it is simply an occupational hazard.

Jesus is the Rock. Most believers are unaware, however, that Jesus used this metaphor to issue a graphic threat against the unrepentant. For Christ said that on whom that Rock "falls, it will grind him to powder" (Mat. 21:44; Luke 20:18). Even the Father said that the Son is the "rock of offense" (Isa. 8:14; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:8). Offending unbelievers is Christlike in the deepest sense.

God utterly forbid drinking blood (Lev. 3:17; 17:14). Israelites, from priests, to Pharisees, to average citizens, were at least superficially obsessed with "keeping the law." Thus when Jesus said whoever "drinks My blood has eternal life," (John 6:54) He was being extremely offensive, and intentionally so. Further, He made no effort whatsoever to clarify Himself. Rather, He let the offense work its ministry. Jesus knew He even offended His own followers. As He said to "His disciples" immediately afterward, "does this offend you?" (John 6:61). After He called the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, a lawyer said to Him, "Teacher, by saying these things You reproach us also." Jesus answered, "Woe to you also, lawyers!" (Luke 11:45-46)." For those who still didn't get it, Jesus said, "I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" (Luke 12:5).

Being rough with the wicked does not automatically turn off unbelievers. An Indianapolis Star columnist, Steve Hall, wrote about our BEL program, "But he's cheerful. Oddly, despite the rigidity of his views, Enyart does not come across as a dour, puritanical type." Jesus spoke of a king who arranged a marriage for his son, but those receiving the invitations killed the messengers so the king, who represented Jesus' own Father, "was furious, and he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city" (Mat. 22:7), and regarding an "evil servant", the Son of Man "will cut him in two" (Mat. 24:51). A harsh style of evangelism is difficult for more sensitive Christians to appreciate. However the biblical approach to communicating with the world includes not only compassion, but severity as well.

When the Ad Council airs anti-drug public service announcements (PSAs) that mock "pot heads on Jeopardy" who cannot even remember their names, they are not motivated out of hatred, but out of love. Ridicule can and does save lives. "Why do you think they call it dope?" Ad Council spots run on Christian stations and get no criticism for being unloving or unkind. Why is it that Christians never rise up against the effort to stigmatize drug users? If a pagan brings peer pressure against "pot heads," that is accepted. Let a believer, however, use mockery to stigmatize fornication or sodomy, and the Church rises in condemnation. God, however, does not condemn those who "rebuke the wicked" (see Prov. 24:25).

God mocked Jeroboam, who "stretched out his hand from the altar" and ordered the prophet arrested. "Then his hand, which he stretched out toward him, withered, so that he could not pull it back to himself" (1 Ki. 13:4). God mocked the Philistines when they found Dagon their god "fallen on its face before the ark of the Lord. So they took Dagon and set it in its place again" (1 Sam. 5:3). The next morning they found Dagon toppled again, but this time he had lost his head (1 Sam. 5:4). God mocked the idolaters who cut down a branch, and with half of it they make a god to worship and with the other half, they make a fire to cook lunch (Is. 44:14-17). Another carves an idol of stone and says to it "wake up" (Hab. 2:18-19). (See also Jer. 49:1.)

When a harsh word is needed God uses a harsh word. This is true in the Old and New Testaments. Herod beheaded John the Baptist for "rebuking" the king for "all the evils which Herod had done" (Luke 3:19) and for condemning the tetrarch for incestuous adultery (Mat. 14:3-4; Mark 6:17-18; Lev. 18:16; 20:21) with "Herodias, his brother Philip's wife" (Luke 3:19). Jesus warned of "the leaven of Herod" (Mark 8:15). When notified that "Herod wants to kill You," (Luke 13:31), Christ responded without respect, "Go, tell that fox, 'I cast out demons'…" (Luke 13:32). Then in a parable Jesus said, "bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:27), and of course He was speaking about Himself.

The Bible does not say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." It says, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7). Thus, the problem isn't his sin as much as it is him. Yes, "the Lord hates... hands that shed innocent blood," (Prov. 6:16-17), but those hands are attached to the man and controlled by his heart (i.e., his mind). So God hates "all workers of iniquity" (Ps 5:5). "The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man" (Ps 5:6). Also "the wicked and the one who loves violence [God] hates." (Ps 11:5). Further, "The face of the Lord is against those who do evil" (Ps 34:16). God "loves righteousness and hate[s] wickedness (Ps. 45:7).

There are six things "the Lord hates," including "a heart that devises wicked plans… a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Prov. 6:16-19). And God reminds us "All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more" (Hos. 9:15). As Moses wrote of God, "if you do not obey Me... My soul shall abhor you" (Lev. 26:27-30).

Even in the New Testament, Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9) introducing the concept of hypocritical love. What is hypocritical love? "Should you… love those who hate the Lord? Therefore the wrath of the Lord is upon you" (2 Chr. 19:2). Warning the wicked of the coming judgment is harsh, but is a necessary component of acceptable love. A love that is not hypocritical rebukes and condemns, and then points the way to God.

God uses different methods to communicate the Gospel to people at different depths of depravity. At times, a Christian can pray with an unbeliever. At other times, a believer might ridicule the unrepentant in hopes of waking him up. Painful communication though is in no way reserved just for non-Christians.

Paul uses dripping sarcasm telling the Corinthians that they do not need his counsel because they are full, rich, wise, strong and distinguished. They are even like kings, and all that without Paul's help (1 Cor. 4:8, 10). Sarcasm stigmatizes destructive behavior and prods people toward righteousness (1 Cor. 4:14). Paul also fell short of today's compassionate Christianity when he wrote that the government should minister terror, wrath and vengeance against the evildoer and that the sword should be used against them (Rom. 13:3-4). The Apostle also erred by today's standards calling unbelievers fools (Rom. 1:22) and the Galatians fools (Gal. 3:1, 3). Incidentally, Jesus also called men fools (Mat. 23:17, 19; 25:2-8; Luke 11:40; 12:20) when appropriate but never "without a cause" (Mat. 5:22) according to His teaching. As King David wrote, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'" (Ps. 53:1). Thus, atheists are fools and it is cruel to withhold this knowledge from them.

Christians enjoy quoting, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper." However many shudder at the rest of the verse. For thus says the Lord, "Every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn" (Isa. 54:17). Jesus taught that human beings will condemn the wicked. "The men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment with this generation and condemn it" (Mat. 12:41). Speaking of vengeance, the saints in heaven who no longer have a shred of false religiosity seek vengeance. For of course, vengeance is good, for "vengeance is Mine" says the Lord (Deut. 32:35; Rom. 12:19) saith the Lord. True, we ourselves are not to exact vengeance on our enemies, "but rather give place to wrath" and that place is with "the governing authorities... For rulers are... a terror... to evil. ... for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Rom. 12:19; 13:1, 3-4). This "is the patience and the faith of the saints." So in heaven, "the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God... cried with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?'” (Rev. 6:9-10). Once that vengeance is complete, an angel will say, "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her" (Rev. 18:20). Remember that Jesus said, "For God so loved the world." Two verses later though He added, "but he who does not believe is condemned already" (John 3:18). By today's Christian standard, no unbeliever would know that he is condemned, because most believers will not communicate this vital truth. John 3:16 is nice. John 3:18 is not nice.

WWJD? WDJD? Some have called Bob Enyart Live rude. Jesus was rude. We're not Jesus. (He was a person, we're a radio talk show :) But the Apostle Paul said to "Follow me as I follow Christ," and he was rude too. Jesus is an example as are the prophets and the apostles. The Lord was asked a question that goes to the very heart of His ministry. "Who gave you this authority?" (Mat. 21:23). Within the answer to that question lies eternal life, yet Christ was not inclined to answer. Rather, He asked them a question, which they failed to answer (Mat. 21:24-27). Therefore He said to them that neither would He answer their question (Mat. 21:27; see also Luke 22:67 and John 12:34-36).

When people misunderstood Jesus He often made no effort to explain Himself. Quite to the contrary, He often purposely let His hearers misconstrue His words (John 2:18-22). Jesus let people walk away in unbelief without running after them. The Bible does not record Him as saying, "I'm sorry, did you misunderstand me?" He is the "stumbling block," and if men wanted to stumble, He let them. For those who want to hang themselves, He invites them (Rev. 22:11). Jesus made the rope available. He is that rope (Rom. 9:33).

Jesus was a man, not a girl. Christianity today has been emasculated. Men and women are different and they communicate differently. Women are softer and nicer than men, and thank God that they are. However, men are not supposed to be women. Today, Christian ministers are expected to behave like women. That foolishness is a death sentence for many unbelievers. Strength, confidence, conviction and tough love appeal to those who are searching. Thus Jesus is a beacon to real seekers. But for those wanting to get lost, Christ is like a street sign that has been reversed by a troublemaker.

Today we are way nicer than God. It is tragic. This spiritual plateau that the Church has reached conveniently reduces the chances for confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn. Nice people have less stress. It seems the only ones that Christians are quick to judge and condemn are fellow believers who judge and condemn the wicked. Go figure.

-Bob Enyart

Truster
April 22nd, 2017, 09:17 AM
And amen, to that.

Truster
April 22nd, 2017, 09:47 AM
That entirely depends on what you mean by the word.

If it even smells a little like the Calvinist idea, its blasphemy.

The odor is Divine in nature with a hint of Pauline doctrine and wafting of Peter. The underlying scent is Elohim spirited.

Truster
April 23rd, 2017, 03:54 AM
The odor is Divine in nature with a hint of Pauline doctrine and wafting of Peter. The underlying scent is Elohim spirited.

Just felt the need to correct the grammar:

Election has the odor of Divinity in nature with a hint of Pauline doctrine and wafting of Peter. The underlying scent is Elohim spirited.

No need to correct the doctrine.

Truster
April 24th, 2017, 05:49 AM
Is He so nice that you feel like doing lots and lots of things to make Him happy. Then expect Him to accept your works as being up to His standard of perfection. That He should then be a debtor to you, because He's nice and you're good enough to please Him....and they all lived happily ever after, no they didn't, no they don't and no you won't!

Truster
April 24th, 2017, 06:14 AM
Is there a verse that says; be ye nice, because I am nice? Elohim forbid and perish the thought.

1 Peter 1:16

Or Thus saith the nice One of Yisra el?*Isaiah 30;12

Do not forget that He who sits on High is Holy. He should be venerated, because He will be glorified in those that despise Him in thought, word and deed.


Their talk is foul and filthy like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are loaded with lies. Everything they say has in it the sting and poison of deadly snakes. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. They are quick to shed blood, hating anyone who disagrees with them. Wherever they go they leave misery and trouble behind them, and THEY HAVE NEVER KNOWN WHAT IT IS TO FEEL SECURE OR ENJOY ELOHIM'S BLESSING. THEY CARE NOTHING ABOUT ELOHIM OR WHAT HE THINKS OF THEM (Romans 3:13-18 Living Bible).

Clete
April 24th, 2017, 06:45 AM
The odor is Divine in nature with a hint of Pauline doctrine and wafting of Peter. The underlying scent is Elohim spirited.

You're a waste of time.

God-bye.

Truster
April 24th, 2017, 06:46 AM
You're a waste of time.

God-bye.

Eternity is far more important than time.