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meshak
April 15th, 2017, 02:26 PM
Eider:


do you believe that every single word in the bible is the literal truth, unerring, infallible and correct?

I don't know how to say this but I read the Bible following the whole context of the Bible both old and new testament which is love of God and Jesus.

Jesus explained how to serve God in His gospel; mainly at sermon on the mount.. I focus mainly on Jesus' word since Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers.


By the way, if any member tries to harrass you or me, let's insist that they must answer our questions clearly as well.... that would be usefdul. :)

Yes:) I agree.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 02:47 PM
Meshak has stated that she believes The Apostle Paul to be an anti-Christ. She ONLY trusts in the books of Matthew through John.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 02:48 PM
Meshak is a wannabe Jehovah Witness and has stated that she believes those "Cultists" are godly people.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 02:52 PM
Meshak has stated that "I don't KNOW if I'm saved." Therefore, she admits to NOT knowing the Gospel as preached by The Apostle Paul in Romans through Philemon.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 02:54 PM
Meshak isn't a member of "The Body of Christ" therefore, is headed for Judgement and the Lake of Fire if she continues to REJECT the True Gospel.

meshak
April 15th, 2017, 02:58 PM
I just edited misspelling your name.

my apologies.

meshak
April 15th, 2017, 03:00 PM
Eider,

I have to go. I have a hectic day today.

I will be back this evening.

thank you:)

meshak
April 15th, 2017, 03:02 PM
I misspelled your name, two times, Eider.

I am sorry.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:07 PM
Meshak always ends up having a problem with whoever disagrees with her lack of faith regarding the "True Gospel." You'll find out Eider.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:08 PM
There are at least two people posting as Meshak. One is more articulate than the other.

eider
April 15th, 2017, 03:15 PM
Eider:

I don't know how to say this but I read the Bible following the whole context of the Bible both old and new testament which is love of God and Jesus.

Jesus explained how to serve God in His gospel; mainly at sermon on the mount.. I focus mainly on Jesus' word since Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers.


Yes:) I agree.

I found it! For me that is an achievement!

This is great...... and now you are the OP and that can make a difference.

Ah, I have not read all of the bible for a long time. About 12 years ago I began an intensive search into the life and mission of Yeshua BarYosef (now known to many as Jesus). I only needed to focus upon the Gospels until recently because my search ended at the point of Jesus's empty tomb being found, but in the last year I have progressed into the whole of the New Testament.

I have studied beyond the Gospels for information connected to Jesus, and I have been interested in archeology, various theological professors, numismatic societies (!), Galilean weather analysis, Genessaret boatmen, farming, living conditions, The Temple, different forums and websites, etc etc. I am totally convinced in Jesus and his mission...... the rest is my current research, hence my interest in theology.com

I haven't read any other posts yet but yours.

Let's get to it... :)

beloved57
April 15th, 2017, 03:18 PM
Eider:



I don't know how to say this but I read the Bible following the whole context of the Bible both old and new testament which is love of God and Jesus.

Jesus explained how to serve God in His gospel; mainly at sermon on the mount.. I focus mainly on Jesus' word since Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers.



Yes:) I agree.

Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?

eider
April 15th, 2017, 03:19 PM
Meshak has stated that she believes The Apostle Paul to be an anti-Christ. She ONLY trusts in the books of Matthew through John.

For a member with no interest in us, you sure come here quickly, matey. :)
Meshak can speak foir self..... we need you to speak for you....

We need your answer about the bible..... do you accept every word in the bible, unerring, infallible, the Divine Word of God..... or what?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:22 PM
Hey, Eider, you're in for a "Rude Awakening." Meshak REJECTS most of the Bible and clings ONLY to the "Four Gospels," Matthew through John.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:25 PM
For a member with no interest in us, you sure come here quickly, matey. :)
Meshak can speak foir self..... we need you to speak for you....

We need your answer about the bible..... do you accept every word in the bible, unerring, infallible, the Divine Word of God..... or what?

The ENTIRE Bible is under the Inspiration of God (The Holy Spirit) Himself. Meshak denies the Trinity. (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.)

eider
April 15th, 2017, 03:36 PM
Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?

Hello!
I need to know, do you accept every word in the bible as the Divine unnerring infallible words of God?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:39 PM
Hello!
I need to know, do you accept every word in the bible as the Divine unnerring infallible words of God?

B57 is a "Hyper-Calvinist Fanatic." His beliefs are rejected by the majority of Posters on this Forum.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:43 PM
B57 believes that only a certain amount of people were, chosen by God to be saved, the rest God choose for eternal damnation in the Lake of Fire. B57 also believes that God is the Author of sin.

eider
April 15th, 2017, 03:44 PM
The ENTIRE Bible is under the Inspiration of God (The Holy Spirit) Himself. Meshak denies the Trinity. (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.)

Thankyou for your reply.

I'm still surprised that you are attracted to Meshak's thread.
You hate reading her posts, I believe..... so that's strange.

Look at your own words from another thread:-

I object to seeing your posts anywhere on this forum.

One thing I look for in folks is integrity, love and understanding.
To write that and then come here...... it don't stack up.
But let's see if we can get along.... start afresh. :)

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:46 PM
Thankyou for your reply.

I'm still surprised that you are attracted to Meshak's thread.
You hate reading her posts, I believe..... so that's strange.

Look at your own words from another thread:-


One thing I look for in folks is integrity, love and understanding.
To write that and then come here...... it don't stack up.
But let's see if we can get along.... start afresh. :)

As a member of the Body of Christ, I feel it's necessary to expose false doctrine and belief systems and display the "True Gospel."

jamie
April 15th, 2017, 04:00 PM
Yeshua BarYosef (now known to many as Jesus).


Just as an aside in case you might be interested, Yeshua bar Yosef is Aramaic.

The Hebrew would be Yeshua ben Yosef.

eider
April 15th, 2017, 04:01 PM
As a member of the Body of Christ, I feel it's necessary to expose false doctrine and belief systems and display the "True Gospel."

You'd be better off evangelising to the world in general, maybe?
The best way (imo) to make a difference in other people is to live the life, and not speak it. I know that's hard..... but to present your faith is surely better than to rubbish another person's...

I'm interested...... do you have a Church, Creed or Denomination which you belong to, or is your faith just singular to yourself? There seems to be a number of members here who just follow their own private faith and I have spoken with some.

So far:
Salvation freely given by God. Nothing else required.
Salvation freely given, which causes a transformation in the follower's life.
Salvation brought about by good deeds and living.
Salvation brought about by free gift + good deeds.
.............. they go on.......

And all of these tell nme that all the others are doomed...
What is the description of your faith, please?

eider
April 15th, 2017, 04:07 PM
Just as an aside in case you might be interested, Yeshua bar Yosef is Aramaic.

The Hebrew would be Yeshua ben Yosef.

Just in case you're interested, Idumeans, Judeans and southern Decapolis spoke Western Aramaic, and their word for 'Son of' was 'Ben'.

Galileans spoke EASTERN Aramaic with Galilean accent (dropping certain vowels) and their word for 'Son of' was 'Bar'.

Mark {14:70} And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art [one] of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth [thereto.

jamie
April 15th, 2017, 04:11 PM
I don't know how to say this but I read the Bible following the whole context of the Bible both old and new testament which is love of God and Jesus.


I think we agree that Christ brought the Father's people out of Egypt. I think we agree that Jesus is the Christ.

So do we agree that Christ said, "Now if the city will not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. (Deuteronomy 20:12-13).

eider
April 15th, 2017, 04:58 PM
I think we agree that Christ brought the Father's people out of Egypt. I think we agree that Jesus is the Christ.

So do we agree that Christ said, "Now if the city will not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. (Deuteronomy 20:12-13).

Hi again..... I know that this was for Meshak, but that command was made by God, Jesus's Father, to the Israelites, not to you or me. It was 'back in the days' of the Old Testament, the Old Covenant which Christians do not refer to. The Old Covenant is surely dead to you?

Christians refer to the NEW Covenant, the Divine Words and Laws of God, as delivered through His Son and Ordained Apostles and Prophets, and the Words say 'You shall not kill.'

Can we agree on that?

JAMES 2:11 MATTHEW 5:21 MATTHEW 19:18 MARK 10:19 LUKE 18:20 ROMANS 13:9

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 04:58 PM
You'd be better off evangelising to the world in general, maybe?
The best way (imo) to make a difference in other people is to live the life, and not speak it. I know that's hard..... but to present your faith is surely better than to rubbish another person's...

I'm interested...... do you have a Church, Creed or Denomination which you belong to, or is your faith just singular to yourself? There seems to be a number of members here who just follow their own private faith and I have spoken with some.

So far:
Salvation freely given by God. Nothing else required.
Salvation freely given, which causes a transformation in the follower's life.
Salvation brought about by good deeds and living.
Salvation brought about by free gift + good deeds.
.............. they go on.......

And all of these tell nme that all the others are doomed...
What is the description of your faith, please?

You haven't told anyone what church or denomination you're affiliated with? You admitted to "seeking" correct?

eider
April 15th, 2017, 05:03 PM
I think we agree that Christ brought the Father's people out of Egypt. I think we agree that Jesus is the Christ.

This was sent to Meshak....
Can I answer?

Jesus's Father made it possible, and Moses supervised the Exodus of the enslaved Israelites out of Egypt, through the Reed Sea, on a Spring Full Moon during the H and L ATs, which is why the Passover Feast (and Easter) is held on the Spring Equinox Full Moon. :)

eider
April 15th, 2017, 05:05 PM
You haven't told anyone what church or denomination you're affiliated with? You admitted to "seeking" correct?

Correct..... how can a seeker belong to any Creed, Church or Denomination? :)

eider
April 15th, 2017, 05:07 PM
You haven't told anyone what church or denomination you're affiliated with? You admitted to "seeking" correct?

You have not mentioned your own Denomination, Creed or Church yet..... do you belong to one?

eider
April 15th, 2017, 05:11 PM
B57 is a "Hyper-Calvinist Fanatic." His beliefs are rejected by the majority of Posters on this Forum.

Please let B57 answer for self.....
I'm not interested in contention and confrontation.
I'm more interested in how people's faiths show in their love, understanding,integrity etc.

beloved57
April 15th, 2017, 05:12 PM
Hello!
I need to know, do you accept every word in the bible as the Divine unnerring infallible words of God?

Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?

eider
April 15th, 2017, 05:23 PM
Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?

Look, friend..... which part of :-I need to know, do you accept every word in the bible as the Divine unnerring infallible words of God?......didn't you understand?

Which part of 'I am a seeker' do you not understand?

I would love to talk with you about Faith and Christianity, but if you ignore my questions and just batter me with yours we aren't going to get far together.

Would you like to answer my honest, simple and friendly question? The one above?


EDIT: I must go to bed..... it's late, here, :)

beloved57
April 15th, 2017, 05:24 PM
Look, friend..... which part of :-I need to know, do you accept every word in the bible as the Divine unnerring infallible words of God?......didn't you understand?

Which part of 'I am a seeker' do you not understand?

I would love to talk with you about Faith and Christianity, but if you ignore my questions and just batter me with yours we aren't going to get far together.

Would you like to answer my honest, simple and friendly question? The one above?
Look, don't bother me until you answer the question!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

jamie
April 15th, 2017, 06:29 PM
Hi again..... I know that this was for Meshak, but that command was made by God, Jesus's Father, to the Israelites, not to you or me.


Who led the people out of Egypt?

patrick jane
April 15th, 2017, 06:39 PM
I have studied beyond the Gospels for information connected to Jesus, and I have been interested in archeology, various theological professors, numismatic societies (!), Galilean weather analysis, Genessaret boatmen, farming, living conditions, The Temple, different forums and websites, etc etc. I am totally convinced in Jesus and his mission...... the rest is my current research, hence my interest in theology.com

You're all over the place eider

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 01:50 AM
Please let B57 answer for self.....
I'm not interested in contention and confrontation.
I'm more interested in how people's faiths show in their love, understanding,integrity etc.

You don't seem that interested in TRUTH, either.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:52 AM
Look, don't bother me until you answer the question!

Meshak and I are inviting anybody who comes on this thread to share their faith and belief with all, by explaining how much (if not all) of the bible they believe in, and if they belong to any particular Church, Creed or Denomination.

You come barging in here with demands and questions, and now you're telling me what to do.... on Meshak's thread opened here because a Christian (can you believe that?) will not have me, a seeker, in their own thread.


Tell you what, mate..... clear off.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 01:52 AM
You have not mentioned your own Denomination, Creed or Church yet..... do you belong to one?

You first. I asked you first. You don't like answering questions, sort of like Meshak.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 01:54 AM
Meshak and I are inviting anybody who comes on this thread to share their faith and belief with all, by explaining how much (if not all) of the bible they believe in, and if they belong to any particular Church, Creed or Denomination.

You come barging in here with demands and questions, and now you're telling me what to do.... on Meshak's thread opened here because a Christian (can you believe that?) will not have me, a seeker, in their own thread.


Tell you what, mate..... clear off.

You don't have the clout to bark orders on TOL.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 01:56 AM
Correct..... how can a seeker belong to any Creed, Church or Denomination? :)

Are you a member of The Body of Christ?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 02:15 AM
Who led the people out of Egypt?

... you don't know?
.... or is this the 'Jamie interrogation of the day'?

Here it is, Jamie:-
Exodus {14:15} And the LORD said unto Moses,.........................{14:16} But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry [ground] through the midst of the sea. {14:17} And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

Jamie, you're obviously very interested in the Exodus, so tell me, do you start your year from the First Equinoctial Full Moon in spring? If not, why not?
Exodus {12:1} And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in
the land of Egypt, saying, {12:2} This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 02:25 AM
Meshak and I are inviting anybody who comes on this thread to share their faith and belief with all, by explaining how much (if not all) of the bible they believe in, and if they belong to any particular Church, Creed or Denomination.

You come barging in here with demands and questions, and now you're telling me what to do.... on Meshak's thread opened here because a Christian (can you believe that?) will not have me, a seeker, in their own thread.


Tell you what, mate..... clear off.

Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 02:27 AM
You're all over the place eider

Hello!
How's the spelling going? :)

Yes Pat (Can I call you Pat?) I'll tell you something about 'all over the place resaearch'.
I can't imagine that you could handle it, but if you're ever surrounded by mythers (miffers :) ), all screaming that the Bible, Moses, Nazareth, Jesus and all are complete myth, and they won't accept a single bible verse in debate against them, the only way that you will be able to cope is by being on forums that just kick out mythers. You just couldn't cope, because you've never been all over the place in your studies.

But I eat mythers for breakfast, friend. My historical knowledge trashes atheist agendas. They can't survive in debate with me.

But being here is different. I'm trying to discover more about Christianity here, and Christians don't all have trhe loving welcome that I am used to elsewhere. They even send me private messages such as 'You are an embicile'.


Now, would you like to share your Church, Creed and Denomination, and tell if you accept every word of the bible as infallible and true?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 02:32 AM
[/B]
You don't have the clout to bark orders on TOL.

True.....
I'll see if I can put nuisances on 'ignore'.
I'm not going to get far with you either.
I came here to chat with Meshak, really. Can Meshak tell you to clear off?
I'll just ignore you, because you've got nothing for me, I can see trhat.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 02:49 AM
The use of the word "my" in the heading should give you pause for thought.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 03:59 AM
True.....
I'll see if I can put nuisances on 'ignore'.
I'm not going to get far with you either.
I came here to chat with Meshak, really. Can Meshak tell you to clear off?
I'll just ignore you, because you've got nothing for me, I can see trhat.

I'm glad you can see "trhat." By the way, what does "trhat" mean?

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 04:03 AM
The use of the word "my" in the heading should give you pause for thought.

You ought to know that without personal relationship with God and Jesus there is no salvation, friend.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 04:08 AM
Hello!
How's the spelling going? :)

Yes Pat (Can I call you Pat?) I'll tell you something about 'all over the place resaearch'.
I can't imagine that you could handle it, but if you're ever surrounded by mythers (miffers :) ), all screaming that the Bible, Moses, Nazareth, Jesus and all are complete myth, and they won't accept a single bible verse in debate against them, the only way that you will be able to cope is by being on forums that just kick out mythers. You just couldn't cope, because you've never been all over the place in your studies.

But I eat mythers for breakfast, friend. My historical knowledge trashes atheist agendas. They can't survive in debate with me.

But being here is different. I'm trying to discover more about Christianity here, and Christians don't all have trhe loving welcome that I am used to elsewhere. They even send me private messages such as 'You are an embicile'.


Now, would you like to share your Church, Creed and Denomination, and tell if you accept every word of the bible as infallible and true?

You poor lost and deluded soul. I have nothing but sympathy for you. You have now boasted and waved a sword in front of a man of prayer. From this moment on your life will begin to unravel and fall apart. The end of which shall either be your salvation or destruction. May the self-same spirit that causes your heart to fear relieve your fears, before the king of terror arrives.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 05:05 AM
You poor lost and deluded soul. I have nothing but sympathy for you. You have now boasted and waved a sword in front of a man of prayer. From this moment on your life will begin to unravel and fall apart. The end of which shall either be your salvation or destruction. May the self-same spirit that causes your heart to fear relieve your fears, before the king of terror arrives.

Truster,

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

You don't seem to have discerning spirit of who are sincere Jesus' followers or not.

Love in Christ.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 05:12 AM
Truster,

I am so glad you are in this thread.

You are one of Christians who misrepresents Jesus to the world.

The world has to be giving the information of whole truth of Christianity and salvation.

Blessings in Christ.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 05:33 AM
I hope you forgive me for pointing out a tiny contradiction. How can I be a "christian" if I "misrepresent Christ"? ...."those that are not for Me are against Me" saith Messiah.

Such a small point I know, but if you would be so kind as to clarify?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 05:50 AM
You poor lost and deluded soul. I have nothing but sympathy for you. You have now boasted and waved a sword in front of a man of prayer.
Hello Truster...... are you having a laugh, friend?

I might boast that I can debate against mythers, but I've never sent a nasty message to anybody.

Do you believe that the bible is the infallible and unerring words of God?

Any chance of a reply?

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 05:59 AM
Hello Truster...... are you having a laugh, friend?

I might boast that I can debate against mythers, but I've never sent a nasty message to anybody.

Do you believe that the bible is the infallible and unerring words of God?

Any chance of a reply?

Only as originally given and received. James Strong said, "all translators are traitors" and I say amen.

I haven't got a clue what mythers implies, but I am aware that truth is often received as being nasty. Would you prefer me to scratch your ears?


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

PS there is absolutely no chance that I will scratch anyones ears. So if you can't bare the truth just put me on ignore or pass by...

PPS why do you call me friend? You are an enemy of the truth and as such you are no friend of mine.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 06:07 AM
Hello Meshak!

I read somewhere that you are most interested in the gospels?

If so, then 'snap', because so have I been. :)
My favourite gospel is G-Mark, possibly because it is the most simple account. I do read all the gospels because they can give light to tiny details that are not shown elsewhere.

Somebody said that you respect Jehovah's Witnesses. I must say that I have the greatest respect for their integrity, honesty and trustworthiness. And their bravery in adversity is well documented, for instance in the way that they conducted themselves when faced with death in the Nazi concentration camps. Sadly I cannot share their beliefs, but they are my friends, and whenever they visit homes around here they are always welcome and my wife makes coffee for them to warm them up in cold weather.

I have discovered so many differing faiths here, most in contention with all the others. Christianity has always meant Love, Understanding, Patience, Teaching and Care to me, but here it sometimes feels different.

I am interested in your faith because of the way in which you can offer love to the most aggressive of people. That has to have a foundation...... :)

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 06:19 AM
Hello Meshak!

I read somewhere that you are most interested in the gospels?

If so, then 'snap', because so have I been. :)
My favourite gospel is G-Mark, possibly because it is the most simple account. I do read all the gospels because they can give light to tiny details that are not shown elsewhere.

Somebody said that you respect Jehovah's Witnesses. I must say that I have the greatest respect for their integrity, honesty and trustworthiness. And their bravery in adversity is well documented, for instance in the way that they conducted themselves when faced with death in the Nazi concentration camps. Sadly I cannot share their beliefs, but they are my friends, and whenever they visit homes around here they are always welcome and my wife makes coffee for them to warm them up in cold weather.

I have discovered so many differing faiths here, most in contention with all the others. Christianity has always meant Love, Understanding, Patience, Teaching and Care to me, but here it sometimes feels different.

I am interested in your faith because of the way in which you can offer love to the most aggressive of people. That has to have a foundation...... :)

I can't help but notice you call evil good and good evil etc.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

This salvation we* have and this form of worship is not a trivial thing. You would be wise to back off and not speak ill of the mysteries you do not comprehend.

We* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

It has pleased the Almighty to warn you.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 06:22 AM
Only as originally given and received. James Strong said, "all translators are traitors" and I say amen.
And that is the best sentence that I have read on TOL, ever!
The dreadful difficulty of transliteration from one language to another, and then again to another, etc can give any with an agenda the chance to 'adjust' as they pleased.
That causes so much difficulty.
I shake your hand for that.


I haven't got a clue what mythers implies, but I am aware that truth is often received as being nasty. Would you prefer me to scratch your ears?
Mythers? Ah ha! I debate on atheist-oriented forums on behalf of the truith of Jesus, his life and mission. Extremist atheists declare that the whole bible in total is a complete myth.... ergo..... the mythers! :)
No, you can't scratch my ears..... my wife does that! :)



For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
I need to look that up.... you've got me, there.
I like what Paul wrote, thus:-1Cor 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
:)


PS there is absolutely no chance that I will scratch anyones ears. So if you can't bare the truth just put me on ignore or pass by...
You tell me your truth, your faith, your belief...... and I will listen, and try to understand. I will.


PPS why do you call me friend? You are an enemy of the truth and as such you are no friend of mine.
Well, where I live we greet everyone as friend until we find otherwise. Look at what you have done.... I responded to you, sentence by sentence by sentence, in honesty...... to find this sentence at the end.
There's me, telling you, asking you, to tell me your faith, and you turn and strike me at the last.

You need more patience, possibly? So let's forget this last sentence, and try to reach out to each other with whatever we can give?

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 06:24 AM
And that is the best sentence that I have read on TOL, ever!
The dreadful difficulty of transliteration from one language to another, and then again to another, etc can give any with an agenda the chance to 'adjust' as they pleased.
That causes so much difficulty.
I shake your hand for that.


Mythers? Ah ha! I debate on atheist-oriented forums on behalf of the truith of Jesus, his life and mission. Extremist atheists declare that the whole bible in total is a complete myth.... ergo..... the mythers! :)
No, you can't scratch my ears..... my wife does that! :)


I need to look that up.... you've got me, there.
I like what Paul wrote, thus:-1Cor 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
:)


You tell me your truth, your faith, your belief...... and I will listen, and try to understand. I will.


Well, where I live we greet everyone as friend until we find otherwise. Look at what you have done.... I responded to you, sentence by sentence by sentence, in honesty...... to find this sentence at the end.
There's me, telling you, asking you, to tell me your faith, and you turn and strike me at the last.

You need more patience, possibly? So let's forget this last sentence, and try to reach out to each other with whatever we can give?

Is that a speech impediment you're typing with?

I recognise the fact that the truth has not set you free and you misrepresent the truth. Fact.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 06:27 AM
I can't help but notice you call evil good and good evil etc.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Yeah, but how do I know that the above does not refer to you and yours?
You just need to tell me your faith, not trash others.


This salvation we* have and this form of worship is not a trivial thing. You would be wise to back off and not speak ill of the mysteries you do not comprehend.

We* the redeemed, regenerate and repentant sinners.

It has pleased the Almighty to warn you.

I learned nothing from that.
I need simple explanations, the complicxated goes right over my head.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 06:30 AM
Is that a speech impediment you're typing with?

I recognise the fact that the truth has not set you free and you misrepresent the truth. Fact.

Oh no....... you can't have ever converted anybody...... you're too full of hate.
Let's give it one more chance, eh?

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 06:31 AM
Yeah, but how do I know that the above does not refer to you and yours?
You just need to tell me your faith, not trash others.



I learned nothing from that.
I need simple explanations, the complicxated goes right over my head.

Those that have the Truth recognise the truth and even if they don't at first they never, ever despise the truth. You have no love of the truth and you just kick words around as a game. I'm sure you'll find people who will be nice to you, but those are the liars and perverters of truth. I'm sure you and they will get on well.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 06:35 AM
Oh no....... you can't have ever converted anybody...... you're too full of hate.
Let's give it one more chance, eh?

Correct I have never converted anyone and know for an absolute fact that I can't and never will.

My hatred is sanctified."Do not I hate them, O Yah Veh, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?"

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 08:14 AM
... you don't know?


I asked because you said, "Hi again..... I know that this was for Meshak, but that command was made by God, Jesus's Father, to the Israelites, not to you or me."

Nothing in the physical dimension happens without the Father's approval. However, it was Christ who led the people out of Egypt.

Credit where credit is due. Christ saved the people from the Egyptian tyranny.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 09:09 AM
Correct I have never converted anyone and know for an absolute fact that I can't and never will.
We can agree on that.



My hatred is sanctified."Do not I hate them, O Yah Veh, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?"
There is not one word of that which is true. You have no mandate to hate anybody.
Christians are called to love even their enemies.
You are not obeying the words of Jesus at all.
I don't know what you have found, but it looks like a lost place to me.
MATTHEW 5:44; LUKE 6:27

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 09:13 AM
We can agree on that.



There is not one word of that which is true. You have no mandate to hate anybody.
Christians are called to love even their enemies.
You are not obeying the words of Jesus at all.
I don't know what you have found, but it looks like a lost place to me.
MATTHEW 5:44; LUKE 6:27

I do love my enemies, but I hate the enemies of truth and my Elohim and Saviour. I hate those that twist the scriptures and confuse the doctrines they hold.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword".

eider
April 16th, 2017, 09:18 AM
Nothing in the physical dimension happens without the Father's approval. However, it was Christ who led the people out of Egypt.

Credit where credit is due. Christ saved the people from the Egyptian tyranny.

Hello Jamie......
OK...... so it was Jesus who caused the Sea to part and who instructed Moses in all.... correct?

Question:- Do you obey the Laws of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, the 517 laws? (I have already excluded the 96 laws relevent to sacrifice.) These laws were layed down by Jesus, I'm guessing, and I guess that you must obey them?

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 09:27 AM
Question:- Do you obey the Laws of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, the 517 laws? (I have already excluded the 96 laws relevent to sacrifice.) These laws were layed down by Jesus, I'm guessing, and I guess that you must obey them?


Nope, I don't. The priesthood on which God's law to Israel is based has been changed and Israel has been converted to God's kingdom.

Are you a member of the family?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 09:33 AM
I do love my enemies, but I hate the enemies of truth and my Elohim and Saviour. I hate those that twist the scriptures and confuse the doctrines they hold.
You might be the enemy of truth. You might be the one who twists the scriptures.
Where, just where did you imagine that salvation was predetermined?
That's such an arogant mindset/faithset, to believe that you are so special...?


"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".
...so you couldn't be described as a family person, then.


"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword".
Ah ha! So you're a 'sell your purse and buy a sword' type, eh?
Jesus has a special message for you...
Matthew {26:52} Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that
take the sword shall perish with the sword. {26:53} Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

There's your predestination..... right there.....

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 09:38 AM
You might be the enemy of truth. You might be the one who twists the scriptures.
Where, just where did you imagine that salvation was predetermined?
That's such an arogant mindset/faithset, to believe that you are so special...?


...so you couldn't be described as a family person, then.


Ah ha! So you're a 'sell your purse and buy a sword' type, eh?
Jesus has a special message for you...
Matthew {26:52} Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that
take the sword shall perish with the sword. {26:53} Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

There's your predestination..... right there.....

You are in a dangerous place and yet you are completely ignorant of the danger.

"Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

eider
April 16th, 2017, 09:40 AM
Nope, I don't. The priesthood on which God's law to Israel is based has been changed and Israel has been converted to God's kingdom.
Well, you know...... The Jesus who brought the Israelites out of Egypt is the Jesus who layed down those laws..... true?

But that's OK........ if all of those laws have been repealed in favour of the New Covenant Laws then I'm guessing that you obey the New Covenant laws to the letter..... correct? That's every single rule, law and guideline in the New Testament.



Are you a member of the family?
I am a seeker of truth. I belong to no family.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 09:48 AM
You are in a dangerous place.....
....I think so....

...... and yet you are completely ignorant of the danger.
....no so dumb as you might think....


"Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

Make sure that's not you, then..... :)
Philipians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. {3:18} (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ: {3:19} Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.) {3:20} For our conversation is in heaven;
from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 10:39 AM
We can agree on that.



There is not one word of that which is true. You have no mandate to hate anybody.
Christians are called to love even their enemies.
You are not obeying the words of Jesus at all.
I don't know what you have found, but it looks like a lost place to me.
MATTHEW 5:44; LUKE 6:27

We are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.

We are to hate even the clothes stained of corrupted flesh.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 10:41 AM
I do love my enemies, but I hate the enemies of truth and my Elohim and Saviour. I hate those that twist the scriptures and confuse the doctrines they hold.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword".

You could be the one preaching some falseness.

You preach Calvinism.

So be careful how you judge, with the measure you judge others it will be measured to you.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 10:42 AM
I am a seeker of truth. I belong to no family.


The family are those Paul referred to in Romans 8:16-17.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 10:43 AM
....I think so....

....no so dumb as you might think....



Make sure that's not you, then..... :)
Philipians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. {3:18} (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ: {3:19} Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.) {3:20} For our conversation is in heaven;
from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Quoting scriptures out of context is of no use whatsoever.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 10:47 AM
Quoting scriptures out of context is of no use whatsoever.

There is no scripture quoted by itself that makes it worthless.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 10:58 AM
Nope, I don't. The priesthood on which God's law to Israel is based has been changed and Israel has been converted to God's kingdom.

Jamie.... :)... !
Just a little problem that I need to clear up.

Earlier you made a big point about:-

So do we agree that Christ said, "Now if the city will not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. (Deuteronomy 20:12-13).

Remember? And I asked you:-
Do you obey the Laws of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, the 517 laws? (I have already excluded the 96 laws relevent to sacrifice.) These laws were layed down by Jesus, I'm guessing, and I guess that you must obey them?

..... and you replied:-

Nope, I don't.

OK? so you interest in Jesus ordering Israelites to beseige a city and stab all males therein is just irrelevent stuff...... yeah?


..... just askin' :)

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 10:59 AM
There is no scripture quoted by itself that makes it worthless.

Satan quoting scripture makes it of no worth and so do the children of Satan quoting scripture.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 11:00 AM
We are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.

We are to hate even the clothes stained of corrupted flesh.

Can I have a source for that command, please?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 11:02 AM
You could be the one preaching some falseness.

You preach Calvinism.

So be careful how you judge, with the measure you judge others it will be measured to you.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

This sent to Truster....

Can I ask, what is your Creed, Church or Denomination, please?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 11:04 AM
The family are those Paul referred to in Romans 8:16-17.

Hello....
At this time I havre no family, Jamie.
I seek what truth I can find alone, just now.

But on Earth, in life, at least I am with my lovely wife. :)

eider
April 16th, 2017, 11:07 AM
Quoting scriptures out of context is of no use whatsoever.

Then make sure that you take care with that.

I will quote the Divine Words of God, and also those as passed to His Apostles asnd Prophets as and where I wish. :)

Right Divider
April 16th, 2017, 11:12 AM
Hey, Eider, you're in for a "Rude Awakening." Meshak REJECTS most of the Bible and clings ONLY to the "Four Gospels," Matthew through John.
Actually, she doesn't like John either.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 11:14 AM
Jamie.... :)... !
Just a little problem that I need to clear up.

Earlier you made a big point about:-


Remember? And I asked you:-
Do you obey the Laws of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, the 517 laws? (I have already excluded the 96 laws relevent to sacrifice.) These laws were layed down by Jesus, I'm guessing, and I guess that you must obey them?

..... and you replied:-


OK? so you interest in Jesus ordering Israelites to beseige a city and stab all males therein is just irrelevent stuff...... yeah?


..... just askin' :)

The Old Testament is about earthly man.

It is about prophecies of what was coming, Jesus Christ.

The New Testament is about what is spiritual.

The New Testament is the prophecies of the old fulfilled.

Jesus came to earth as a Man and gave us the new guidelines and regulations for the New Covenant.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 11:16 AM
Satan quoting scripture makes it of no worth and so do the children of Satan quoting scripture.

Satan misused scripture, not much unlike what you are doing; Satan also accused the brethren, not much unlike what you are doing.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 11:19 AM
Can I have a source for that command, please?

Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

Jude 1:23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 11:21 AM
This sent to Truster....

Can I ask, what is your Creed, Church or Denomination, please?

I go by no Creeds from humans, and no nowadays Church or denomination, not even nondenominational.

My Church that I belong to is the body of Christ.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 11:28 AM
I hope you forgive me for pointing out a tiny contradiction. How can I be a "christian" if I "misrepresent Christ"?

Because you claim to be a Christian. Everyone who claim His name presenting Jesus, some are true one and some are not.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 11:33 AM
Hello Meshak!

I read somewhere that you are most interested in the gospels?

To be precise, I concentrate on what Jesus says because I am His follower and His servant.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 12:34 PM
Meshak is a wannabe Jehovah Witness and has stated that she believes those "Cultists" are godly people.

Who are you to judge all Jehovah's witnesses? You don't know all of their hearts!

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 12:41 PM
Meshak has stated that "I don't KNOW if I'm saved." Therefore, she admits to NOT knowing the Gospel as preached by The Apostle Paul in Romans through Philemon.
Nor do I know that I'm eternally saved, Jesus said that those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved. I know that I'm saved from my old life in the flesh, and I'm being saved daily by the Holy Spirit helping me to overcome. But I leave me eternal salvation in God's hands.

Philippians 2

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 12:42 PM
Meshak isn't a member of "The Body of Christ" therefore, is headed for Judgement and the Lake of Fire if she continues to REJECT the True Gospel.

Judging again?

The gospel that Jesus peached is the true gospel!

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 12:46 PM
Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His death for them ? Yes or No ?
Do you ever speak about anything else? You do realise Jesus had a life too, don't you?

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 12:48 PM
Nor do I know that I'm eternally saved, Jesus said that those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved. I know that I'm saved from my old life in the flesh, and I'm being saved daily by the Holy Spirit helping me to overcome. But I leave me eternal salvation in God's hands.

Philippians 2

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Marhig,

You write beautifully and true things, but we can know now if we are saved, for if you do not know now that you are saved, what is there to hope for? How can you be saved in the end if you are not saved now?

Having a relationship with Jesus Christ now is salvation, and we shall be with him in the end, if we continue in him.

When Jesus comes again, we must be ready.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 12:53 PM
Do you ever speak about anything else? You do realise Jesus had a life too, don't you?
Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost?

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marhig
April 16th, 2017, 01:15 PM
Do you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost?

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I believe the Christ lived for sinners, to preach the gospel to them, to heal and save as many as would believe in him, those who believe in the word of God and obey it, and he brought the love, life and light of God to all as he bore witness to the truth.

Romans 1

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

2 Thessalonians 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks always? to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 01:20 PM
I believe the Christ lived for sinners, to preach the gospel to them, to heal and save as many as would believe in him, those who believe in the word of God and obey it, and he brought the love, life and light of God to all as he bore witness to the truth.

Romans 1

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

2 Thessalonians 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks always? to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



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You evaded the question.

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eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:26 PM
The Old Testament is about earthly man.

It is about prophecies of what was coming, Jesus Christ.

The New Testament is about what is spiritual.

The New Testament is the prophecies of the old fulfilled.

Jesus came to earth as a Man and gave us the new guidelines and regulations for the New Covenant.

That's cool..... so if any Christians go cherry-picking in the OT to justify actions now, whilst ignoring OT laws etc that they don't like, then it's going to look absolutely wrong..... yeah?

It's all about integrity.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 01:28 PM
Marhig,

You write beautifully and true things, but we can know now if we are saved, for if you do not know now that you are saved, what is there to hope for? How can you be saved in the end if you are not saved now?

Having a relationship with Jesus Christ now is salvation, and we shall be with him in the end, if we continue in him.

When Jesus comes again, we must be ready.
Hi Gt,

Many who believed in Jesus turned away, we can turn back to our old life. We are sealed by the Spirit as long as we walk in the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth and obey God. But if we turn back again to our old fleshly ways and put ourselves before God, then we are the ones who make the choice to put our lives before the will of God, and their are many who have done this, I know a couple who met in church, they have been together a long while, and they are now both atheists, are they eternally saved?

I hope that they will be, but we can't say that they are, I hope that they will turn to God again. We are just flesh, I pray to God always to keep me and to give me strength to overcome Satan every day, because I know that I can't do it without Christ and without the power of Gods Spirit in my heart. And I thank our Lord Jesus for showing us the way.

Many who profess to be saved love their flesh. You will know those who are truly being saved because they will be doers of the word and living by the will of God. If we're not, then we are just giving lip service and we are false witnesses.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:30 PM
Actually, she doesn't like John either.

Wow!
I like Meshak better with every stone that you folks throw.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 01:31 PM
You evaded the question.

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I've answered you in the past, you don't speak about anything else!

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 01:31 PM
I've answered you in the past, you don't speak about anything else!
No you didn't!

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marhig
April 16th, 2017, 01:33 PM
No you didn't!

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Yes I have, is there anything else about Jesus that you speak about like his life?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:33 PM
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

Jude 1:23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Thankyou for that.
I like those words, just as they are shown in the bible.

Thankyou again for that.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:36 PM
I go by no Creeds from humans, and no nowadays Church or denomination, not even nondenominational.

My Church that I belong to is the body of Christ.

Thankyou for your answer.
That's fine. I only asked because Creeds can sometimes help to give a quick idea about a person's faith, that's all.

I don't have a Creed either.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:41 PM
Because you claim to be a Christian. Everyone who claim His name presenting Jesus, some are true one and some are not.

Hi Meshak. :)
I know we haven't talked much yet, but the strange thing is, that the more stones that get chucked at you, so the more I like you. True!

Your enemies can sometimes be your friends, even when they try not to be.
Jesus is laughing with you, all the way, or so I believe. :)

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:45 PM
To be precise, I concentrate on what Jesus says because I am His follower and His servant.

Hello......
Up until now I have concentrated upon what Jesus said and did as reported in the Gospels.
So I'm some way behind you on Christian knowledge, you need to know.

But I'm lrearning.... I'm a late learner. :)

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:49 PM
Who are you to judge all Jehovah's witnesses? You don't know all of their hearts!

Very well spoken!
Very well said!
In my opinion they have total conviction, high integrity, high trust and much love.
I'm only sad that I cannot share their faith.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 01:55 PM
Very well spoken!
Very well said!
In my opinion they have total conviction, high integrity, high trust and much love.
I'm only sad that I cannot share their faith.

Do you not believe in God?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 01:57 PM
Marhig,

You write beautifully and true things, but we can know now if we are saved, for if you do not know now that you are saved, what is there to hope for? How can you be saved in the end if you are not saved now?

Having a relationship with Jesus Christ now is salvation, and we shall be with him in the end, if we continue in him.

When Jesus comes again, we must be ready.

I like the way that you write, as well as Marhig.
My question is this:- If you know that you are saved, then you do not have a Faith.... you have a Certitude.

Most Christians live in Faith, which of course is a very intense Hope, really.

Because of this, I perceive that you are unusual amongst Christians. Do you see my point?

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 01:58 PM
Yes I have, is there anything else about Jesus that you speak about like his life?
If you have I don't remember, but im willing to venture that you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost. Christ life of obedience made many righteous Rom 5:19

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marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:01 PM
If you have I don't remember, but im willing to venture that you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost. Christ life of obedience made many righteous Rom 5:19

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We are to obey God too beloved, Jesus hasn't done all the obeying for us, we are clearly taught in the Bible that we too are obey God and do his will.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 02:02 PM
Do you not believe in God?

I believe in God. :)
But I cannot share my JW friend's particular faith.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 02:04 PM
OK? so you interest in Jesus ordering Israelites to beseige a city and stab all males therein is just irrelevent stuff...... yeah?


That was for Meshak's benefit. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." So Meshak maintains that Jesus came to bring peace.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 02:09 PM
We are to obey God too beloved, Jesus hasn't done all the obeying for us, we are clearly taught in the Bible that we too are obey God and do his will.
Those Christ obeyed God for are made righteous Rom 5:19, do you believe that?

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marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:09 PM
I believe in God. :)
But I cannot share my JW friend's particular faith.
Ah right, I see. I believe in God and Christ. But my beliefs are different to mainstream Christianity as I don't believe Jesus is God for one, and I'm not a member of any church, we go to house meetings like Jesus and his disciples did in the Bible. But Jesus said that his brothers and sisters are those who do the will of the father. So those who do God's will and love him from their hearts and love their neighbours as themselves are my brothers and sisters in Christ also. I don't believe that God looks at the denomination, he looks at the heart. And he wants to to love him with our all, and if we truly love him, then we will want to please him and live by his will, have a forgiving heart and love others as Christ did.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 02:09 PM
I can't help but notice you call evil good and good evil etc.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Strange, it seems all you can believe is in yourself.

that is not humble attitude you have been exhibiting.

Jesus does not approve of arrogant behavior.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:09 PM
Those Christ obeyed God for are made righteous Rom 5:19, do you believe that?

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I believe that we have to obey God also!

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 02:10 PM
Who are you to judge all Jehovah's witnesses? You don't know all of their hearts!


We know their heart by their words and actions. Especially their actions, talk is cheap.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 02:14 PM
I believe that we have to obey God also!
Do you believe that them Christ obeyed God for are made righteous by it ? Rom 5:19 yes or no

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marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:14 PM
We know their heart by their words and actions. Especially their actions, talk is cheap.
You're right, talk is cheap, and there are thousands of people in every denomination who say that they love God but they don't live it.

There will be JW with good hearts, and only God can know the depths of all our hearts, he is the righteous judge.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:21 PM
Do you believe that them Christ obeyed God for are made righteous by it ? Rom 5:19 yes or no

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Romans 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

We are made righteous through Christ, and we too have to obey God as he did.

If you have a child and you live a wrong life in front of them, then they will follow you and do the same.

Jesus lived a righteous life and those who belong to him and follow him will do the same, they will love God, obey him, worship him in Spirit and in truth and bare witness to the truth, and Christ by the Spirit will strengthen them to do so. He said have no fear, for I have overcome the world, and he can help us to do the same.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 02:22 PM
You're right, talk is cheap, and there are thousands of people in every denomination who say that they love God but they don't live it.

There will be JW with good hearts, and only God can know the depths of all our hearts, he is the righteous judge.


Jesus said it was what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person. (Matthew 15:11)

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:23 PM
Jesus said it was what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person. (Matthew 15:11)
So are you saying that all Jehovah's witnesses have wrong hearts?

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 02:25 PM
Romans 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

We are made righteous through Christ, and we too have to obey God as he did.

If you have a child and you live a wrong life on front of them, then they will follow you and do the same.

Jesus lived a righteous life and those who belong to him and follow him will do the same, they will love God, obey him, worship him in Spirit and in truth and bare witness to the truth, and Christ by the Spirit will strengthen them to do so. He said have no fear, for I have overcome the world, and he can help us to do the same.
So you believe that sinners Christ obeyed God for are made righteous. So why are not all people righteous/saved?

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jamie
April 16th, 2017, 02:28 PM
So are you saying that all Jehovah's witnesses have wrong hearts?


What they teach and practice comes from their heart. (Matthew 15:18)

Sin defiles a person. Jesus is not Michael, Jesus is God the Son.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:37 PM
So you believe that sinners Christ obeyed God for are made righteous. So why are not all people righteous/saved?

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We have to truly believe and follow Jesus, live by the will of God, and our hearts will be cleansed by the Holy Spirit.

We are justified through faith, made righteous through Christ by the grace of God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 02:40 PM
What they teach and practice comes from their heart. (Matthew 15:18)

Sin defiles a person. Jesus is not Michael, Jesus is God the Son.

No I don't believe that Jesus is Michael either, but I wouldn't condemn anyone, I believe that we are to speak the truth and God will do the judging.

beloved57
April 16th, 2017, 02:55 PM
We have to truly believe and follow Jesus, live by the will of God, and our hearts will be cleansed by the Holy Spirit.

We are justified through faith, made righteous through Christ by the grace of God by the power of the Holy Spirit.
So you don't believe that sinners are made righteous by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19

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meshak
April 16th, 2017, 02:57 PM
I cannot agree with any organization as saved. Jesus expects our own relationship with God and Jesus.

However, I have a great respect for JWs as a whole because they honor and have a great respect for Jesus as a sinless faithful Servant of God the Father. And they strive to be like Jesus.

they are showing a clear godly fruit to the world.

blessings in Christ.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 03:21 PM
Strange, it seems all you can believe is in yourself.

that is not humble attitude you have been exhibiting.

Jesus does not approve of arrogant behavior.

As I have already stated you confuse arrogance with scriptural authority. Thankfully the Eternal Almighty knows both our intents and thoughts on this matter. I gladly leave it to Him to decide.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:23 PM
As I have already stated you confuse arrogance with scriptural authority. Thankfully the Eternal Almighty knows both our intents and thoughts on this matter. I gladly leave it to Him to decide.

suit yourself, putting yourself up on the pedestal.

Peace in Christ.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 03:32 PM
suit yourself, putting yourself up on the pedestal.

Peace in Christ.

Not a pedestal, it's a Rock.

"He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings".

Yet again you call good evil and put darkness for light. Might I suggest you take a pop at someone who is not conversant with scripture?

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:35 PM
Not a pedestal, it's a Rock.

"He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings".

Yet again you call good evil and put darkness for light. Might I suggest you take a pop at someone who is not conversant with scripture?

You know as you said even satan knows to quote.

that does not prove anything.

that's why Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

You don't know Jesus, friend.

You need to be born again to trust in Jesus.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 03:38 PM
That was for Meshak's benefit. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." So Meshak maintains that Jesus came to bring peace.

Hi.... but you quoted Deuteronomy to make your point. You used a book, the laws and commands of which you have set aside for the New Testament.

Even what you wriote above is set aside, because when Jesus was crucified he fulfilled all testiomony and the New Covenant was set in place.

Here is your law for now, and you are banned from killing. Any killing.

JAMES 2:11 MATTHEW 5:21 MATTHEW 19:18 MARK 10:19 LUKE 18:20 ROMANS 13:9

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:40 PM
Truster,

There are many Christians like you. Even though you seem to put yourself different from the worldly Christians, your attitude, fruit, is exactly the same as those majority of "saved Christians".

You cannot hide your fruit.

Jesus says His followers are salt and light of the world.

All we see is darkness in you.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 03:44 PM
Ah right, I see. I believe in God and Christ. But my beliefs are different to mainstream Christianity as I don't believe Jesus is God for one, and I'm not a member of any church, we go to house meetings like Jesus and his disciples did in the Bible. But Jesus said that his brothers and sisters are those who do the will of the father. So those who do God's will and love him from their hearts and love their neighbours as themselves are my brothers and sisters in Christ also. I don't believe that God looks at the denomination, he looks at the heart. And he wants to to love him with our all, and if we truly love him, then we will want to please him and live by his will, have a forgiving heart and love others as Christ did.

You are brave member to tell me that. I thought that Unitarians did not survive here.
I have a tendency to think that Jesus was an amazing prophet, and in that respect I feel a little bit more close to what you believe.

Your writing sends out empathy and understanding.....

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:46 PM
Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post

That was for Meshak's benefit. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." So Meshak maintains that Jesus came to bring peace.

Jesus came to bring peace which currently we don't have.

Wake up, sister.

You need to get rid of your worldly mentality and practice, if you want to inherit peaceful kingdom.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 03:46 PM
Truster,

There are many Christians like you. Even though you seem to put yourself different from the worldly Christians, your attitude, fruit, is exactly the same as those majority of "saved Christians".

You cannot hide your fruit.

Jesus says His followers are salt and light of the world.

All we see is darkness in you.

There you go again. Calling good evil and putting darkness for light.

Now, what were you saying about fruit?

eider
April 16th, 2017, 03:48 PM
We know their heart by their words and actions. Especially their actions, talk is cheap.

Jamie, not many folks around here are religious, but nearly everybody respects Jehovah's Witnesses. They are completely trustworthy, honest, fair, decent, law-abiding and peaceful.

And their bravery in their faith is a matter of recorded history.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:50 PM
There you go again. Calling good evil and putting darkness for light.

Now, what were you saying about fruit?


Sorry, truster,

I can see clearly what you are producing.

I cannot spread my faith in Christ if I cannot discern what is evil and good.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Jamie, not many folks around here are religious, but nearly everybody respects Jehovah's Witnesses. They are completely trustworthy, honest, fair, decent, law-abiding and peaceful.

And their bravery in their faith is a matter of recorded history.

Yes, they practice what they preach. They are not lip servers.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 03:56 PM
Sorry, truster,

I can see clearly what you are producing.

I cannot spread my faith in Christ if I cannot discern what is evil and good.

Go and look in the mirror and you won't see good.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 04:36 PM
..................I'm not a member of any church, we go to house meetings like Jesus and his disciples did in the Bible...................

That reminds me of the Quakers, and also the Brethren Some of the Brethren here have 'closed' groups and tend not to accept converts. But House meetings are really good because, like Jesus's they are such close and friendly groups.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 04:45 PM
No I don't believe that Jesus is Michael either, but I wouldn't condemn anyone, I believe that we are to speak the truth and God will do the judging.

The Father does not judge people and Jesus does not judge unbelievers.

I don't condemn anyone, people do that themselves.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 04:46 PM
Yes, they practice what they preach. They are not lip servers.

I agree.
I notice, here, that some believers trash other believers and their faiths, and I don't think that this shows such believers to be true.

Jesus didn't trash anybody; even when he was debating hotly with the priesthood he kept his words simply factual.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 04:48 PM
The Father does not judge people and Jesus does not judge unbelievers.


Have you got a source for the above, from the bible, please?

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 04:52 PM
That reminds me of the Quakers, and also the Brethren Some of the Brethren here have 'closed' groups and tend not to accept converts. But House meetings are really good because, like Jesus's they are such close and friendly groups.
We're not anything, we just love God and follow Jesus, and anyone is welcome in our meeting, whoever they are. We just get together and read the Bible and talk about the things of God. :)

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 04:52 PM
Hi.... but you quoted Deuteronomy to make your point. You used a book, the laws and commands of which you have set aside for the New Testament.


Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible and said that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

I use the Hebrew Bible quite a bit, don't you?

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 04:58 PM
The Father does not judge people and Jesus does not judge unbelievers.

I don't condemn anyone, people do that themselves.

The father is the righteous judge, so yes he does judge us, and we are judged on whatever we do in our lives, good or bad.

And everyone is judged by the word of God, and God knows who has heard the truth and accepted or rejected it.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 05:02 PM
Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible and said that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness*that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

I use the Hebrew Bible quite a bit, don't you?

I agree, I believe that all God's word is the truth.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 05:06 PM
Have you got a source for the above, from the bible, please?


Jesus said, "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:22-23)

"And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day." (John 12:47-48)

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 05:11 PM
That's cool..... so if any Christians go cherry-picking in the OT to justify actions now, whilst ignoring OT laws etc that they don't like, then it's going to look absolutely wrong..... yeah?

It's all about integrity.

Well, we have to understand what happened in the New Testament. We do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore because but we are to get circumcised in the heart. We do not have to do various external washings anymore just to go worship God, for Jesus washes us and lives inside us. We do not have to adhere to a dietary law to belong to God, and we do not have to observe special days, for all those special days were about Jesus, we observe him all day every day.

We have a new law and it is called the law of Christ. The new law is the old law with some changes.

Jesus came to earth and gave us the teachings and guidelines for the new law, the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood for the New Covenant.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 05:14 PM
Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible and said that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
But none of those terms signify that commands from Deuteronomny can be used to justify acts in the New Covenant. Christians are bannned, by the Divine Words of God, from killing.

If any Christians deciode that they can extract and use such verses, then they might find it difficult to discard or ignore the 613.


I use the Hebrew Bible quite a bit, don't you?
Nope. KJV here.

By the way, obviously 2 Timothy is Gods Word, but historical language translators and experts are worried that Saint Paul might not have written 2 Timothy. Obviously I'm not qualified to make further comment than that.

jamie
April 16th, 2017, 05:24 PM
But none of those terms signify that commands from Deuteronomny can be used to justify acts in the New Covenant. Christians are bannned, by the Divine Words of God, from killing.

If any Christians deciode that they can extract and use such verses, then they might find it difficult to discard or ignore the 613.


You missed the point that it was Christ who told the people to kill adult male Canaanites.

Today we don't kill Canaanites so we comply. ISIS, different story.

Jesus was right, he didn't come to bring peace.

eider
April 16th, 2017, 05:25 PM
......We do not have to adhere to a dietary law to belong to God.......
If you don't want to then you don't want to, but Christians are ordered NOT to eat blood or meat with blood, or strangled meat. There may be other laws as well..... yes, meats offered to idols (!)
ACTS 15:20 ACTS 15:29



We have a new law and it is called the law of Christ. The new law is the old law with some changes.
The New Covenant law is very very different from the old laws.


Jesus came to earth and gave us the teachings and guidelines for the new law, the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood for the New Covenant.
Jesus gave the entire New Covenant Laws. His Ordained Prophets and Apostles just did some of the writing. :)

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 05:26 PM
But none of those terms signify that commands from Deuteronomny can be used to justify acts in the New Covenant. Christians are bannned, by the Divine Words of God, from killing.

If any Christians deciode that they can extract and use such verses, then they might find it difficult to discard or ignore the 613.


Nope. KJV here.

By the way, obviously 2 Timothy is Gods Word, but historical language translators and experts are worried that Saint Paul might not have written 2 Timothy. Obviously I'm not qualified to make further comment than that.

I read the KJV too. :) And I too agree that we are not to kill. Jesus taught us to love one another not to hurt or kill. God is love.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 05:28 PM
Hi Gt,

Many who believed in Jesus turned away, we can turn back to our old life. We are sealed by the Spirit as long as we walk in the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth and obey God. But if we turn back again to our old fleshly ways and put ourselves before God, then we are the ones who make the choice to put our lives before the will of God, and their are many who have done this, I know a couple who met in church, they have been together a long while, and they are now both atheists, are they eternally saved?

I hope that they will be, but we can't say that they are, I hope that they will turn to God again. We are just flesh, I pray to God always to keep me and to give me strength to overcome Satan every day, because I know that I can't do it without Christ and without the power of Gods Spirit in my heart. And I thank our Lord Jesus for showing us the way.

Many who profess to be saved love their flesh. You will know those who are truly being saved because they will be doers of the word and living by the will of God. If we're not, then we are just giving lip service and we are false witnesses.

We can know now if we are saved. Jesus reconciles us to God. How do you not know you are saved if you are reconciled to God and He is living inside you?

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 05:37 PM
You missed the point that it was Christ who told the people to kill adult male Canaanites.

Today we don't kill Canaanites so we comply. ISIS, different story.

Jesus was right, he didn't come to bring peace.
Jesus did come to bring peace, he is the prince of Peace. And he brings peace to all who belong to him.

John 14

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

When he said he came not to bring peace but a sword, he was talking about the word of God separating. Because once we bring God's word to others there are some who reject it, even those of our own families. I have experienced this.

But we are to hold on to the hope that they will one day believe. But I have never felt peace in my heart like I do now. And I know that I'm truly blessed.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 05:39 PM
I like the way that you write, as well as Marhig.
Thank you for your kindness; I write much here and hope to say something about God and the Bible others will enjoy.


My question is this:- If you know that you are saved, then you do not have a Faith.... you have a Certitude.
I have faith that I was saved with, faith that Jesus is in heaven above everything, and that his blood did clean me of all my sins. I also have faith in everything that he says, so much so that I do what he says. He says we can be saved now, and I know it is true.



Most Christians live in Faith, which of course is a very intense Hope, really.

Because of this, I perceive that you are unusual amongst Christians. Do you see my point?

I don't know about it being unusual to believe you are saved now. Have you been around those who teach you cannot know? Is that where your idea comes from? The Bible tells us many times that we can be saved now.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 05:42 PM
We can know now if we are saved. Jesus reconciles us to God. How do you not know you are saved if you are reconciled to God and He is living inside you?
I know that I'm being saved now through Christ and by the power of the spirit I'm overcoming my flesh, and my life has changed completely. But I also know that I have to keep my faith and endure to the end to be eternally saved. And I leave my eternal salvation in God's hands and pray always for him to give me the strength to overcome my flesh.

Even Jesus himself said that the father never leaves him because he always does what pleases him. So this shows us that if we don't do what pleases God, and go against his will and disobey him then he can leave us.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 05:44 PM
Ah right, I see. I believe in God and Christ. But my beliefs are different to mainstream Christianity as I don't believe Jesus is God for one, and I'm not a member of any church, we go to house meetings like Jesus and his disciples did in the Bible. But Jesus said that his brothers and sisters are those who do the will of the father. So those who do God's will and love him from their hearts and love their neighbours as themselves are my brothers and sisters in Christ also. I don't believe that God looks at the denomination, he looks at the heart. And he wants to to love him with our all, and if we truly love him, then we will want to please him and live by his will, have a forgiving heart and love others as Christ did.

Jesus also says he will not leave us Fatherless when he said he will not leave us as orphans. Jesus also says we will be his children. That makes Jesus exactly like God the Father.

marhig
April 16th, 2017, 05:59 PM
Jesus also says he will not leave us Fatherless when he said he will not leave us as orphans. Jesus also says we will be his children. That makes Jesus exactly like God the Father.

Those who are born of God are not left fatherless, if we are born of God then we have a father. And yes Jesus is exactly like God the Father. But I believe that God is the head of Christ, as it says in the Bible. And even Jesus himself calls the father his God and father, and he calls the disciples his brethren. If they are his brethren, and we are his brothers and sisters, then the father is the father of all of us, Jesus included and he is the God of all of us also.

I know that you don't see this as I do, but this is my beliefs GT and I know it's the truth.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:03 PM
Hi.... but you quoted Deuteronomy to make your point. You used a book, the laws and commands of which you have set aside for the New Testament.

Even what you wriote above is set aside, because when Jesus was crucified he fulfilled all testiomony and the New Covenant was set in place.

Here is your law for now, and you are banned from killing. Any killing.

JAMES 2:11 MATTHEW 5:21 MATTHEW 19:18 MARK 10:19 LUKE 18:20 ROMANS 13:9

When you use all capital letters for the Books and Letters, people cannot hover their curser over it and read the scriptures. Just letting you know.

As for bringing up anything in the Old Testament to teach and or rebuke someone...we can do that.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:04 PM
There you go again. Calling good evil and putting darkness for light.

Now, what were you saying about fruit?

You do that too.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:16 PM
But none of those terms signify that commands from Deuteronomny can be used to justify acts in the New Covenant. Christians are bannned, by the Divine Words of God, from killing.

If any Christians deciode that they can extract and use such verses, then they might find it difficult to discard or ignore the 613.


Nope. KJV here.

By the way, obviously 2 Timothy is Gods Word, but historical language translators and experts are worried that Saint Paul might not have written 2 Timothy. Obviously I'm not qualified to make further comment than that.

We can know if what the Bible says is true because Jesus reveals it.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:23 PM
If you don't want to then you don't want to, but Christians are ordered NOT to eat blood or meat with blood, or strangled meat. There may be other laws as well..... yes, meats offered to idols (!)
ACTS 15:20 ACTS 15:29

Of course people can pervert anything. We are told not to be perverted with our food. That is not the same as saying we do not have a dietary law as they did in the old law.




The New Covenant law is very very different from the old laws.

There are things you can say from the Old Testament and it be true forever.

The New Testament is the Old Testament fulfilled. Many times the Old Testament is quoted by the writers of the New Testament.




Jesus gave the entire New Covenant Laws. His Ordained Prophets and Apostles just did some of the writing. :)

Right.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:29 PM
I read the KJV too. :) And I too agree that we are not to kill. Jesus taught us to love one another not to hurt or kill. God is love.

Romans 13:4 For the one in authority is Gods servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are Gods servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Paul is speaking to believers. Paul is telling believers that if they do wrong, then it is right for them to be put to death by our government.


Romans 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are Gods servants, who give their full time to governing.


Here also is Peter telling you the same thing.

1 Peter 2:14
or to governors, who are sent by him topunish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 06:34 PM
Those who are born of God are not left fatherless, if we are born of God then we have a father. And yes Jesus is exactly like God the Father. But I believe that God is the head of Christ, as it says in the Bible. And even Jesus himself calls the father his God and father, and he calls the disciples his brethren. If they are his brethren, and we are his brothers and sisters, then the father is the father of all of us, Jesus included and he is the God of all of us also.

I know that you don't see this as I do, but this is my beliefs GT and I know it's the truth.

Jesus is the Rock that fathers us.

Jesus also says we will be his children.

That is scripture, just like it is scripture where Jesus says those who obey are his mother and brother.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 06:59 PM
Go and look in the mirror and you won't see good.


:)

Blessings, friend.

Right Divider
April 16th, 2017, 08:44 PM
Wow!
I like Meshak better with every stone that you folks throw.
So you don't accept some part of the Bible as well? You'll fall with her.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 09:00 PM
So you don't accept some part of the Bible as well? You'll fall with her.

to be more precise, I don't accept it if it does not harmonize with what Jesus says.

Don't spread false accusation.

It is not a good or godly Christian thing to do.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 12:42 AM
Wow!
I like Meshak better with every stone that you folks throw.

I'm not throwing stones. I'm delivering truths, but just like a stone, thrown at something hard, they just bounce off her stony heart.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 01:04 AM
I don't know about it being unusual to believe you are saved now.
Hello GT... :)
I liked all of your post, but the above especially interests me.
Yes...... That is the norm, I think..... folks 'believe' that they are saved. They have 'Faith'.

Have you been around those who teach you cannot know?
Yes.... All my life. All I've ever known is Christians who have Faith, apart from a few folks who are absolutely CERTAIN..... they have Certitude. :)

Is that where your idea comes from?
Yes

The Bible tells us many times that we can be saved now.
Yes... it's just that those who believe are not often Certain.

You are amongst a very few people who 'are certain' .... have Certitude.
Your Certainty must make, in you, a most especial person, a strength of character beyond the usual.

Oh... what I couldn't do if I was that sure! :D

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 01:12 AM
Hello GT... :)
I liked all of your post, but the above especially interests me.
Yes...... That is the norm, I think..... folks 'believe' that they are saved. They have 'Faith'.

Yes.... All my life. All I've ever known is Christians who have Faith, apart from a few folks who are absolutely CERTAIN..... they have Certitude. :)

Yes

Yes... it's just that those who believe are not often Certain.

You are amongst a very few people who 'are certain' .... have Certitude.
Your Certainty must make, in you, a most especial person, a strength of character beyond the usual.

Oh... what I couldn't do if I was that sure! :D

I do have a powerful testimony and started to go to online groups just to help others know what I know, but I have mostly been met with those who attack me.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 01:21 AM
You missed the point that it was Christ who told the people to kill adult male Canaanites.

Today we don't kill Canaanites so we comply. ISIS, different story.

Jesus was right, he didn't come to bring peace.

Hi...
I didn't miss your point, Jamie....
You feel that Jesus agreeing to a mass killing that it is ok to go killing,say, ISIS.
You feel that Jesus doesn't promote peace.
Well, that's just about what you wrote, above.

That's a problem with some Muslims, imo, they feel that Muhammad supports killing.

So some Christian Creeds and some Islam Creeds support killing. Yes?
If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe.

But if Jesus made such commands back then, he also made the 613, and Christians who clutch at the bits they need for reassurance or righteousness, whilst dumping the bits that they can't be bothered with..... oh dear. :)

eider
April 17th, 2017, 01:32 AM
When you use all capital letters for the Books and Letters, people cannot hover their curser over it and read the scriptures. Just letting you know.
Thankyou. I didn't know that. :)


As for bringing up anything in the Old Testament to teach and or rebuke someone...we can do that.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

But..... I am fairly well acquainted with the 613.
If we remove the 96 laws relating to sacrifice then 517 remain.
If I quoted any one of the 517 to teach, rebuke or correct the average Christian they would most likely 'run' into the protection of the New Covenant! They call out 'There's a New Ciovenant!' :)
If that same Christian wants to justify some action or idea they feel that they can pop back into the 517. I see it all the time.

And so, once a Christian has used Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Exodus to justify themselves, that's it..... I will remind them that they did, every time they run back to the New. :)

I don't judge anybody by my standards. I watch to see what their standards are, and then I assess their characters/spirits by how they hold up to their own standards! :)

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 01:41 AM
Thankyou. I didn't know that. :)
Your welcome.


But..... I am fairly well acquainted with the 613.
If we remove the 96 laws relating to sacrifice then 517 remain.
If I quoted any one of the 517 to teach, rebuke or correct the average Christian they would most likely 'run' into the protection of the New Covenant! They call out 'There's a New Ciovenant!' :)
Well, Jesus did give us the commands for the New Covenant.


If that same Christian wants to justify some action or idea they feel that they can pop back into the 517. I see it all the time.

And so, once a Christian has used Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Exodus to justify themselves, that's it..... I will remind them that they did, every time they run back to the New. :)
Could you give me an example so that I could have a better understanding of what you mean?


I don't judge anybody by my standards. I watch to see what their standards are, and then I assess their characters/spirits by how they hold up to their own standards! :)

You don't judge them according to the New Testament?

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 04:25 AM
I'm not throwing stones.

I am speechless.

love and peace, brother.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 04:26 AM
I am speechless.

love and peace, brother.

I can't help but notice how you edited my post.

I wish you were speechless...

eider
April 17th, 2017, 06:03 AM
Your welcome.
Thanks again


Well, Jesus did give us the commands for the New Covenant.
Yes.... but some Christians still love to quote the Old Covenant Laws when it suits them. :)


Could you give me an example so that I could have a better understanding of what you mean?
I'll try. Real instances are much better, but let's take a pretend incident.
...ok.... suppose a Christian might be ranting in hatred about a man who lives nearby who dressses as a woman, a transvestite. Don't worry about what you think about that, this is a pretend situation!...... another Christian tries to support the transvestite's wishes, but the 1st Christian quotes the bible! Because the 1st Christian cannot find a suitable verse in the NT they plump for the OT, and so quote Deuteronomy 22:5! So the second Christian quotes the verse before that Deuteronomy 22:4 and insists that in future the 1st Christian will always be prepared to help their neighbours load their trucks, cars and lorries! The 1st Christian refuses, explaing that he only obeys the NT laws! L:) It can be very funny, sometimes! :)



You don't judge them according to the New Testament?

There are some Christians who only accept some of the NT,but, yes, I might quote NT law to Christians. But I would quote Kitab I'Aqdas to a Bahai, or the Koran to a Muslim, etc.... :)

Grosnick Marowbe
April 17th, 2017, 06:10 AM
to be more precise, I don't accept it if it does not harmonize with what Jesus says.

Don't spread false accusation.

It is not a good or godly Christian thing to do.

What Scripture have you REJECTED for the reason you gave?

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 07:31 AM
Thanks again


Yes.... but some Christians still love to quote the Old Covenant Laws when it suits them. :)


I'll try. Real instances are much better, but let's take a pretend incident.
...ok.... suppose a Christian might be ranting in hatred about a man who lives nearby who dressses as a woman, a transvestite. Don't worry about what you think about that, this is a pretend situation!...... another Christian tries to support the transvestite's wishes, but the 1st Christian quotes the bible! Because the 1st Christian cannot find a suitable verse in the NT they plump for the OT, and so quote Deuteronomy 22:5! So the second Christian quotes the verse before that Deuteronomy 22:4 and insists that in future the 1st Christian will always be prepared to help their neighbours load their trucks, cars and lorries! The 1st Christian refuses, explaing that he only obeys the NT laws! L:) It can be very funny, sometimes! :)
Thanks, I see what you mean now. I would definitely use scripture from the New Testament to prove it is wrong, but I might also use Old Testament too. But, I do see what you mean.



There are some Christians who only accept some of the NT,but, yes, I might quote NT law to Christians. But I would quote Kitab I'Aqdas to a Bahai, or the Koran to a Muslim, etc.... :)
It sounds like you are well studied in many different religions.

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 07:58 AM
Hi...
I didn't miss your point, Jamie....
You feel that Jesus agreeing to a mass killing that it is ok to go killing,say, ISIS.
You feel that Jesus doesn't promote peace.
Well, that's just about what you wrote, above.

That's a problem with some Muslims, imo, they feel that Muhammad supports killing.

So some Christian Creeds and some Islam Creeds support killing. Yes?
If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe.

But if Jesus made such commands back then, he also made the 613, and Christians who clutch at the bits they need for reassurance or righteousness, whilst dumping the bits that they can't be bothered with..... oh dear. :)


Why did Jesus promote non-violence when he was flesh and blood?

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 08:20 AM
But if Jesus made such commands back then, he also made the 613, and Christians who clutch at the bits they need for reassurance or righteousness, whilst dumping the bits that they can't be bothered with..... oh dear. :)


Jesus was born under, lived under, and taught the Law of Moses. He did so without violating the law's precepts which he expanded on.

But when he died the Father gave him a new life so he could govern the world. The Father is calling people who will work with him.

We don't live under the same law that Jesus lived under. Neither do those who claim to be Jews.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 10:24 AM
Romans 13:4 For the one in authority is Gods servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are Gods servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Paul is speaking to believers. Paul is telling believers that if they do wrong, then it is right for them to be put to death by our government.


Romans 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are Gods servants, who give their full time to governing.


Here also is Peter telling you the same thing.

1 Peter 2:14
or to governors, who are sent by him topunish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right

Hi GT i was talking about this in another thread, in the KJV it is written Romans 13:6 that they are ministers of God

Romans 13:6

For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

In earlier verses it says that the ministers of God do not bare the sword in vain, they are talking about the sword of the spirit.

And I think the verse you quoted in 2 Peter 2 needs to be read with the other verses too.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 10:48 AM
Hi GT i was talking about this in another thread, in the KJV it is written Romans 13:6 that they are ministers of God
Hi Marhig, I will gladly use the KJV to discuss these scriptures.



Romans 13:6

For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

In earlier verses it says that the ministers of God do not bare the sword in vain, they are talking about the sword of the spirit.

It is about harming the wrong doer.




And I think the verse you quoted in 2 Peter 2 needs to be read with the other verses too.

1 Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

That scripture is also about being punished for doing wrong.

I am not sure how you get from that translation that it is not about those who govern and rule over us in this world.

When John the baptizer was baptizing, he baptized some soldiers. The soldiers asked John what they should do. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers. He told them to not extort money, and do not accuse people falsely. This shows us that it is not wrong to be a soldier, and to defend oneself, one’s city, and one’s country.

Luke 3:14 Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."

Read these scriptures:

Matthew 8:8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

Jesus did not tell the centurion to stop having soldiers.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 10:56 AM
Hi Marhig, I will gladly use the KJV to discuss these scriptures.



It is about harming the wrong doer.



1 Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

That scripture is also about being punished for doing wrong.

I am not sure how you get from that translation that it is not about those who govern and rule over us in this world.

When John the baptizer was baptizing, he baptized some soldiers. The soldiers asked John what they should do. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers. He told them to not extort money, and do not accuse people falsely. This shows us that it is not wrong to be a soldier, and to defend oneself, one’s city, and one’s country.

Luke 3:14 Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."

Read these scriptures:

Matthew 8:8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

Jesus did not tell the centurion to stop having soldiers.
You have forgotten something the John said to the soldiers, he said do violence to no man. The world will punish by there laws. But I believe that those born of God shouldn't use violence. We are to speak the truth and by the word of God we judge others and leave the final judgement in God's capable hands.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 11:00 AM
You have forgotten something the John said to the soldiers, he said do violence to no man. The world will punish by there laws. But I believe that those born of God shouldn't use violence. We are to speak the truth and by the word of God we judge others and leave the final judgement in God's capable hands.

I have not forgotten anything that John says. There is no such thing as a soldier not ever using force, evenly deadly force when needed.
Not everyone is a Christian, and a soldier being a Christian is better than a soldier not being a Christian.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 11:00 AM
I can't help but notice how you edited my post.

I wish you were speechless...


How did I edit??????

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 11:14 AM
I have not forgotten anything that John says. There is no such thing as a soldier not ever using force, evenly deadly force when needed.
Not everyone is a Christian, and a soldier being a Christian is better than a soldier not being a Christian.
Luke 3

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

It is better for a Christian to abstain from violence and bring God's word and love to others.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 11:17 AM
Luke 3

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

It is better for a Christian to abstain from violence and bring God's word and love to others.

Again, the soldiers were not told to stop being a soldier. They were told to be content with their pay.

It is about being a bad soldier who is corrupt, and a righteous soldier.

Let us reason together.

If you are living in a country without military, then you are a nation at risk to be overtaken by those who will not let you be a Christian.

If you are living in a country that cannot use guns and kill, then tell me how you will get your kidnapped child or grandchild back safely?

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 11:23 AM
Again, the soldiers were not told to stop being a soldier. They were told to be content with their pay.

It is about being a bad soldier who is corrupt, and a righteous soldier.

Let us reason together.

If you are living in a country without military, then you are a nation at risk to be overtaken by those who will not let you be a Christian.

If you are living in a country that cannot use guns and kill, then tell me how you will get your kidnapped child or grandchild back safely?
But they were told not to use violence. And I believe that those who belong to God are to do the same.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 11:31 AM
But they were told not to use violence. And I believe that those who belong to God are to do the same.

They can chain people up in dungeons, but they cannot use violence.

Think about it some more.

John said do not ACCUSE falsely and do NOT EXTORT money. That is about using violence to do things that are sinful. That is not about defending what is right and protecting society.

You also are not addressing how Jesus healed a soldier and said the leader of soldiers that he had greater faith than all in Israel.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 11:39 AM
They can chain people up in dungeons, but they cannot use violence.

Think about it some more.

John said do not ACCUSE falsely and do NOT EXTORT money. That is about using violence to do things that are sinful. That is not about defending what is right and protecting society.

You also are not addressing how Jesus healed a soldier and said the leader of soldiers that he had greater faith than all in Israel.
I have nothing against soldiers, I just believe the those who belong to God are not to use violence. We are to bring his word and love to others.

We are to do God's will, and the world will take care of itself

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 11:45 AM
I have nothing against soldiers, I just believe the those who belong to God are not to use violence. We are to bring his word and love to others.

We are to do God's will, and the world will take care of itself
Does God's will include protecting your family?

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 11:50 AM
Does God's will include protecting your family?
I've said this before, if someone came into my home and attacked my children I would defend them. But I wouldn't join anything where I am trained to use violence and taught to kill. I don't believe that this is right before God. Jesus didn't teach us to do this, he taught us that we are to show love, mercy, kindness and forgiveness and bring God's word to others and love one another.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 11:50 AM
I have nothing against soldiers, I just believe the those who belong to God are not to use violence. We are to bring his word and love to others.

We are to do God's will, and the world will take care of itself

The world taking care of itself needs strong soldiers who are not criminally inclined.

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 12:00 PM
But they were told not to use violence.


Was that because Jesus and his dad helped rebuild Sepphoris?

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 12:02 PM
The world taking care of itself needs strong soldiers who are not criminally inclined.
Jesus said if someone strikes us on our cheek, we are to turn the other also.

I just don't believe that it's right for God's people to use violence, we are to save lives through Christ, not take them.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 12:06 PM
Was that because Jesus and his dad helped rebuild Sepphoris?
Sorry I don't know what you're talking about.

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 12:20 PM
Sorry I don't know what you're talking about.


Jesus saw the result of rebellion against the Roman authority so he cautioned his brethren against violence toward the Romans. It was futile and could easily get a person crucified, a horrible death he didn't wish on anyone.

The USA is not an occupied nation and we need to do all we can to keep it that way.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 12:25 PM
Jesus saw the result of rebellion against the Roman authority so he cautioned his brethren against violence toward the Romans. It was futile and could easily get a person crucified, a horrible death he didn't wish on anyone.

The USA is not an occupied nation and we need to do all we can to keep it that way.
Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 01:01 PM
I've said this before, if someone came into my home and attacked my children I would defend them. But I wouldn't join anything where I am trained to use violence and taught to kill. I don't believe that this is right before God. Jesus didn't teach us to do this, he taught us that we are to show love, mercy, kindness and forgiveness and bring God's word to others and love one another.
Untrained soldiers can't protect anyone very well.

Jesus allowed Himself to be abused during His first time here.
When He returns, He will do some significant violence of His own.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 01:32 PM
Untrained soldiers can't protect anyone very well.

Jesus allowed Himself to be abused during His first time here.
When He returns, He will do some significant violence of His own.
I don't think Jesus will be committing any violence at any time! You sound like the Jews who expected him to do that the first time around and he didn't!

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 01:50 PM
I don't think Jesus will be committing any violence at any time!

I can see that you are completely unfamiliar with the Bible and wrath of God that will be coming to the world one day.


You sound like the Jews who expected him to do that the first time around and he didn't!
No, I simply believe what God has said in His Word.

Do a little Bible searching for the day of the LORD and His wrath.

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 02:20 PM
Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?


If it were a lawful order to which I was subject, sure. I don't see justifiable homicide as contrary to God.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 03:14 PM
I do have a powerful testimony and started to go to online groups just to help others know what I know, but I have mostly been met with those who attack me.

I understand..... Think of it this way.... if you were surrounded by folks loving you, patting you on the back, agreeing with you, praising you, you would not develop any further.

I think you might benefit from being surrounded by hatred, discord, aggression, contention and confrontation because each day that you suffer that you get..... stronger. Maybe, after a while you could get to see such folks as friends because of what they bring to you in strength?

I know it's hard. I am the very last person to actually be able to do it..... talk is easy.... but why not try it? :)

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 03:26 PM
I understand..... Think of it this way.... if you were surrounded by folks loving you, patting you on the back, agreeing with you, praising you, you would not develop any further.

I think you might benefit from being surrounded by hatred, discord, aggression, contention and confrontation because each day that you suffer that you get..... stronger. Maybe, after a while you could get to see such folks as friends because of what they bring to you in strength?

I know it's hard. I am the very last person to actually be able to do it..... talk is easy.... but why not try it? :)

I have gained greatly regardless. However, it would have been great to learn, grow, and be strengthened by other good people building each other up in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 03:30 PM
There are things you can say from the Old Testament and it be true forever.
Well, that gives people the chance to 'cherry-pick' whatever they like to justify their agendas.
Can I give you an example? I opened the bible to Deuteronomy and snatched the first verses that I saw.
Now, let's say that all the commands in Deuteronomy are those of Jesus, and let's say that these verses ARE TRUE FOREVER.... OK?

These verses allow a husband to drag his wife outside and stone her to death, if she asks him to change faith. A misguided Christian could tell us that this is the wish of the Lord, but I know it is not, because Jesus gave a New Testament and ommitted this stuiff!

So for me, if it is not in the New Testament, it is OUT! :)

Here is that piece... there are many others:-
What would you think if a neighbouring husband did that to his wife because she found faith in another religion, and then quoted that to you?

Deuteronomy {13:6} If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; {13:7} [Namely,] of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; {13:8} Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: {13:9} But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. {13:10} And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {13:11} And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 03:33 PM
So you don't accept some part of the Bible as well? You'll fall with her.

Hello......
I wonder how you interpret the bible?

Do you have a Creed, Church or Denomination. That might help me understand your faith better.... :)

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 03:38 PM
Hello......
I wonder how you interpret the bible?

Do you have a Creed, Church or Denomination. That might help me understand your faith better.... :)
No, I don't go by creeds or denominations.

But I accept all of the Bible, unlike Meshak who rejects what doesn't fit her incorrect ideas.

You seem to think highly of her, but you should not.

We don't criticize her for no reason. She is an unbeliever by all indications from her posts here on TOL.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 03:39 PM
Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?

Maybe you think it is sinful to catch and kill an animal to eat? Maybe you think it is sinful to have a cavity and have needles stuck in your mouth and teeth drilled on. Maybe you think it is sinful for a doctor to put you to sleep and cut you open while he removes things inside of you and sews you back up. Maybe you think it is sinful to learn how to use a gun to protect a loved one from someone wanting to severely hurt them by rape or death. How about soldiers protecting us from other countries who want to take over your country? Is it wrong when a trained police officer shoots someone who kidnapped your child?

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 03:41 PM
No, I don't go by creeds or denominations.

But I accept all of the Bible, unlike Meshak who rejects what doesn't fit her incorrect ideas.

You seem to think highly of her, but you should not.

We don't criticize her for no reason. She is an unbeliever by all indications from her posts here on TOL.

You are like Meshak. Meshak likes the Books and not the letters of Paul, and you say the Books are not to us and we do not have to obey them, but you really like Paul.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 03:47 PM
Jesus said if someone strikes us on our cheek, we are to turn the other also.

I just don't believe that it's right for God's people to use violence, we are to save lives through Christ, not take them.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

We are to turn our other cheek when someone strikes us so that we do not get overtaken by an evil man.

Jesus was telling us how to be safe, not how to keep the evil person safe.

You keep saying you would protect your loved ones. So tell me how you would do that if you cannot use deadly force if needed.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 04:11 PM
Well, that gives people the chance to 'cherry-pick' whatever they like to justify their agendas.
Can I give you an example? I opened the bible to Deuteronomy and snatched the first verses that I saw.
Now, let's say that all the commands in Deuteronomy are those of Jesus, and let's say that these verses ARE TRUE FOREVER.... OK?

These verses allow a husband to drag his wife outside and stone her to death, if she asks him to change faith. A misguided Christian could tell us that this is the wish of the Lord, but I know it is not, because Jesus gave a New Testament and ommitted this stuiff!

So for me, if it is not in the New Testament, it is OUT! :)

Here is that piece... there are many others:-
What would you think if a neighbouring husband did that to his wife because she found faith in another religion, and then quoted that to you?

Deuteronomy {13:6} If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; {13:7} [Namely,] of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; {13:8} Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: {13:9} But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. {13:10} And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {13:11} And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

I explained to you that it would have to also be in the New Testament. However, even those things you quoted about stoning an adulterous spouse, it shows us how sinful it is to God to commit adultery.
All scripture is useful.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 04:19 PM
I'm not throwing stones. I'm delivering truths, but just like a stone, thrown at something hard, they just bounce off her stony heart.

You think that you are..... delivering truths.
But I have not seen any writings of yours that have shown any love, understanding, empathy or patience.
Now.... how canI interpret that? :

eider
April 17th, 2017, 04:23 PM
It sounds like you are well studied in many different religions.

...not really. I often need to revise in order to find what I seek. I know folks who have everything in their head.... instantly! I wish I could do that... :)

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 04:28 PM
You think that you are..... delivering truths.
But I have not seen any writings of yours that have shown any love, understanding, empathy or patience.
Now.... how canI interpret that? :

Trusters beliefs are not even in the scriptures.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 04:30 PM
...not really. I often need to revise in order to find what I seek. I know folks who have everything in their head.... instantly! I wish I could do that... :)

I know what you mean. As for me, I just like talking about God and His Truth.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 04:32 PM
Why did Jesus promote non-violence when he was flesh and blood?

Ah.... Jamie..... He wanted to promote pacifism, and I support that.
But there is a problem with that as well. During the Passover week (before the feast) Jesus visited the Temple three days running. On the first day he just looked around and left. On the second day he demonstrated quite violently, throwing over benches and tables, scattering Temple and other coinage everywhere, breaking open sacrificial offering cages, and then he picketed the Temple Courts so that folks could not pass through. He returned on the third day and (I believe) he picketed again, arguing with the authorities. Obviously that is not peaceful.
I try to be as objective as I can, but I do pay special attention to his 'live by the sword, die by the sword' words just after his arrest.

If you support (for instance) the military, or armed police, then I could not debate against you, yet I would prefer to walk to the pacifist side of any such debate.
Is that fair? :)

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 04:42 PM
You are like Meshak. Meshak likes the Books and not the letters of Paul, and you say the Books are not to us and we do not have to obey them, but you really like Paul.
You are a liar. Lying is not obeying the LORD!

eider
April 17th, 2017, 04:45 PM
Was that because Jesus and his dad helped rebuild Sepphoris?

Yes, they both did!
Tetrarch Herod Antipas wanted to rebuild Sepphoris (Zippori) after Varus had razed it to the ground, enslaved all women and children and crucified all the males, (back in 4-3BC).

That was why the hilltop communities surrounding Sepphoris were so busy, housing Handworkers, Hauliers and Labourers.

But that cannot have much to do with supporting weapons and fighting, can it?

eider
April 17th, 2017, 04:50 PM
Jesus saw the result of rebellion against the Roman authority so he cautioned his brethren against violence toward the Romans. It was futile and could easily get a person crucified, a horrible death he didn't wish on anyone.

The USA is not an occupied nation and we need to do all we can to keep it that way.

Jesus was not born when Sepphoris was razed, but it would have taken many years to rebuild as Antipas wanted, so as a boy/youth he would have worked there.

I am so pleased to see that mentioned...... I researched that fairly hard, once.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 04:51 PM
You are a liar. Lying is not obeying the LORD!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using TOL mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Prove it then and tell me do we have to obey anything that Jesus commands in the four books?

You call me a liar then you had better prove it.

Tell us all what we have to obey that Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

I can hardly wait to hear this one. Hurry up false accuser. You were quick to lie about me by calling me a liar. Prove it now.

I want to hear what you say we have to obey that Jesus taught while he walked the earth.

Bright Raven
April 17th, 2017, 05:01 PM
John 14:15 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands.


John 14:21 New International Version (NIV)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”


John 15:10 New International Version (NIV)

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

eider
April 17th, 2017, 05:04 PM
No, I don't go by creeds or denominations.

But I accept all of the Bible, unlike Meshak who rejects what doesn't fit her incorrect ideas.

You seem to think highly of her, but you should not.

We don't criticize her for no reason. She is an unbeliever by all indications from her posts here on TOL.

Hi....
Thankyou for your reply.
The thing is, that most Christians would say that they accept all of the bible. But you know I speak the truth when I tell you that those same Christians argue with each other, claim that each other is doomed, insult each other etc.

In fact there are over 3000 differing Creeds, Churches and Denominations. I have a list of the larger denominations and it is huge! They all think that they are right.

So, look at it this way..... even if a thousand Creeds would call you 'true', at least a couple of thousand would declare you damned.

I have to let my inner self decide for me, who to listen to, who to 'love' if you like.

In Domino Confide :)

eider
April 17th, 2017, 05:13 PM
You are a liar. Lying is not obeying the LORD!



That is rather subjective, don't you think?
Another post with no love or understanding.... :D

jamie
April 17th, 2017, 05:50 PM
But that cannot have much to do with supporting weapons and fighting, can it?


It demonstrated the futility of fighting the Romans and Jesus knew it was not yet time for Jerusalem and the temple to be razed.

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 06:17 PM
Prove it then and tell me do we have to obey anything that Jesus commands in the four books?

You call me a liar then you had better prove it.

Tell us all what we have to obey that Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

I can hardly wait to hear this one. Hurry up false accuser. You were quick to lie about me by calling me a liar. Prove it now.

I want to hear what you say we have to obey that Jesus taught while he walked the earth.
We must not LIE, like you.

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 06:26 PM
Hi....
Thankyou for your reply.
The thing is, that most Christians would say that they accept all of the bible. But you know I speak the truth when I tell you that those same Christians argue with each other, claim that each other is doomed, insult each other etc.

Meshak has said that she does NOT accept the epistles of Paul. How can we square that with accepting ALL of the Bible?


In fact there are over 3000 differing Creeds, Churches and Denominations. I have a list of the larger denominations and it is huge! They all think that they are right.

So do you have a point? It's possible that they are all wrong.


So, look at it this way..... even if a thousand Creeds would call you 'true', at least a couple of thousand would declare you damned.

So what?


I have to let my inner self decide for me, who to listen to, who to 'love' if you like.

Well it's clear that your discernment is terrible. I hope that you someday come to a knowledge of the truth and quit being so wishy-washy.


In Domino Confide :)
So which creed did you get this from? Is Latin your first language?

Right Divider
April 17th, 2017, 06:27 PM
That is rather subjective, don't you think?
Another post with no love or understanding.... :D
You really are blind.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 08:48 PM
Maybe you think it is sinful to catch and kill an animal to eat? Maybe you think it is sinful to have a cavity and have needles stuck in your mouth and teeth drilled on. Maybe you think it is sinful for a doctor to put you to sleep and cut you open while he removes things inside of you and sews you back up. Maybe you think it is sinful to learn how to use a gun to protect a loved one from someone wanting to severely hurt them by rape or death. How about soldiers protecting us from other countries who want to take over your country? Is it wrong when a trained police officer shoots someone who kidnapped your child?

You are looking at things totally differently to me, I'm talking about God's people, I don't believe that it's right for those born of God, to bare arms and go out purposely to war against and kill others. That's totally different to defending your family at that moment.

I wouldn't learn how to use a gun, I wouldn't even want to hold one. Do you think that you could pick up a gun and murder someone who has done nothing to you? Someone you are commanded to kill?

In war, many of those who fight are young men and women, could you pick up a gun and kill a teenager, a youngster who has done nothing to you, his crime, is that he is in another army being told to kill others as you are. I don't think that I could ever do that.

My grandfather was in world war two, his brother was killed in Dunkirk, he told me the horrors of war. And some of my family are from Belfast, I spent many weeks, over different years there as a child in the 70s at the height of the troubles, living there for a time, I have seen first hand what war does, and what hatred is like. I've seen things that a child should never see. And it's made me realise, that hatred and war and fighting are wrong, and I truly believe that it is wrong before God for God's people to enter into such things.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 08:53 PM
We are to turn our other cheek when someone strikes us so that we do not get overtaken by an evil man.

Jesus was telling us how to be safe, not how to keep the evil person safe.

You keep saying you would protect your loved ones. So tell me how you would do that if you cannot use deadly force if needed.
If someone broke into my house, I would use whatever I had at hand to protect any children there, or my mum who is elderly etc. But I wouldn't purposely bare arms to war against another.

Jesus said, those who take up the sword, shall perish by the sword.

The only sword that I'm interested in using is the sword of the spirit which is the word of God to put to death.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 09:08 PM
If it were a lawful order to which I was subject, sure. I don't see justifiable homicide as contrary to God.

It's not lawful in God's sight, he said "thou shalt not kill"

I think that you might find it a bit harder than you think if you were put into that situation. I hope and pray that you never are.

It can't be easy to take up a gun and take the life of another, they have a family and a life, people who love them. I just don't think i could ever take another life. And I hope that I'm never put in that position.

I don't know if I've ever told you about hacksaw ridge, it's about a young man who joins the army in WW2 but because he believes in God he refuses to take up weapons. Have you ever seen it? It's a true story. I hope that thats the heart that I would have if I had to ever go into a war zone.

https://youtu.be/9BqgHYLvHIE

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:20 PM
If any evil befalls a person it is sent by the Almighty. It might be for correction or for destruction. If the Almighty is going to bring dread, terror and evil upon you to destruction, all the guns in the world, will not protect you. If it's for correction then He will have His way, no matter how you try and resist or ignore His correction.

"But let him that halaleth halal in this, that he comprehendeth and knoweth me, that I-Yah Veh work mercy, judgement and justice in the earth: for in these I delight, an Oracle of Yah Veh". Jeremiah 9:24

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:23 PM
If any evil befalls a person it is sent by the Almighty. It might be for correction or for destruction. If the Almighty is going to bring dread, terror and evil upon you to destruction, all the guns in the world, will not protect you. If it's for correction then He will have His way, no matter how you try and resist or ignore His correction.

"But let him that halaleth halal in this, that he comprehendeth and knoweth me, that I-Yah Veh work mercy, judgement and justice in the earth: for in these I delight, an Oracle of Yah Veh". Jeremiah 9:24

Your majority accepted faith will not get you into narrow gate.

Remember Jesus says narrow is the get that leads to life and only a few find it.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 10:23 PM
If someone broke into my house, I would use whatever I had at hand to protect any children there, or my mum who is elderly etc. But I wouldn't purposely bare arms to war against another.

Jesus said, those who take up the sword, shall perish by the sword.

The only sword that I'm interested in using is the sword of the spirit which is the word of God to put to death.

So how would you stop an intruder?
You keep putting down the police and the military. I am not saying all police and military only do right, but we need them because not all people are believers and there are many evil people out there. The law is for the wrong doers.
I don't want to talk to you about this anymore because you give mixed messages and you will not address the scriptures about how Jesus did not tell the man with many soldiers under him to stop having soldiers. I don't want to talk to you about it anymore because you say you would use what you got to stop someone, but you don't believe in baring arms. If you accidentally kill them with a heavy vase or something like that then what? If we did not have a military, could we have not been taken over by another country by now, maybe an Islamic country?

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 10:28 PM
We must not LIE, like you.

Why won't you prove it like I asked? Tell me do we have to obey anything that Jesus commands in the four books? You do not answer because you know you do not believe we have to obey anything that Jesus says in the four books. If you believe we do then say it.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:33 PM
It is so easy to refute those whose faith is not based what Jesus teaches.

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 10:44 PM
So how would you stop an intruder?
You keep putting down the police and the military. I am not saying all police and military only do right, but we need them because not all people are believers and there are many evil people out there. The law is for the wrong doers.
I don't want to talk to you about this anymore because you give mixed messages and you will not address the scriptures about how Jesus did not tell the man with many soldiers under him to stop having soldiers. I don't want to talk to you about it anymore because you say you would use what you got to stop someone, but you don't believe in baring arms. If you accidentally kill them with a heavy vase or something like that then what? If we did not have a military, could we have not been taken over by another country by now, maybe an Islamic country?
See you're not looking at it the same as I am. I've said the world will look after itself. The world will fight and war and all of that belongs to the world. But those who belong to God are not of this world. We shouldn't be fighting with weapons of this world. Paul said that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. Our weapons are our loins girt about with the truth, the helmet of salvation and the breastplate of righteousness, the sheild of faith, and the sword of the spirit which is the word of God. And he said that our feet should be be shod with the preparation of the gospel of Peace.

Gospel of Peace not war. As I said, I don't believe that God's people should take up arms. We are here to help to save others through Christ, not to kill others.

Ephesians 6

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

And if I accidently kill with a vase, then it is just that, an accident. But I didn't go out with the intention to kill another!

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 10:48 PM
See you're not looking at it the same as I am. I've said the world will look after itself. The world will fight and war and all of that belongs to the world. But those who belong to God are not of this world. We shouldn't be fighting with weapons of this world. Paul said that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. Our weapons are our loins girt about with the truth, the helmet of salvation and the breastplate of righteousness, the sheild of faith, and the sword of the spirit which is the word of God. And he said that our feet should be be shod with the preparation of the gospel of Peace.

Gospel of Peace not war. As I said, I don't believe that God's people should take up arms. We are here to help to save others through Christ, not to kill others.

Ephesians 6

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.*For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high*places.*Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.*Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;*And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;*Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

And if I accidently kill with a vase, then it is just that, an accident. But I didn't go out with the intention to kill another!

Again, you did not address the scriptures where Jesus helped a man with many soldiers. You also do not grasp that Paul says wrong doers will be punished. You also would hurt someone with a household utensil? You also seem to think that no police or military should be Christian. Can you imagine how crooked all of them would be?

marhig
April 17th, 2017, 10:52 PM
Again, you did not address the scriptures where Jesus helped a man with many soldiers. You also do not grasp that Paul says wrong doers will be punished. You also would hurt someone with a household utensil? You also seem to think that no police or military should be Christian. Can you imagine how crooked all of them would be?

Did I mention the police? Over here our police don't have guns, I think you can be in the police service without having to kill.

And because Jesus helped a man with many soldiers, does that make it right for God's people to kill? I would help soldiers too! But that doesn't mean I agree with violence and killing others.

And God will do the punishing, I leave that in his hands.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 11:34 PM
Terror, murder, mayhem and war is a sword in the hands of the Eternal Almighty. “There is no peace unto the wicked says my Elohim”.

The Almighty uses the wicked to slay the wicked.

"Let not an evil speaker be established in the earth: evil shall hunt the violent man to overthrow him". Psalm 140:11

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 11:59 PM
Did I mention the police? Over here our police don't have guns,

If you are against force then you are against the police.
I think that there are some specially trained police in your country that carry firearms.
It is not just about guns anyway.



I think you can be in the police service without having to kill.
Sometimes they have to, and I am sure the police in your country have killed bad people.



And because Jesus helped a man with many soldiers, does that make it right for God's people to kill?

Jesus did not tell the man that he was doing wrong. John the baptizer did not tell the soldiers to give up their job either.




And God will do the punishing, I leave that in his hands.

What don't you get about we have the law for bad people and are able to use force to control the masses?

marhig
April 18th, 2017, 12:41 AM
If you are against force then you are against the police.
I think that there are some specially trained police in your country that carry firearms.
It is not just about guns anyway.


Sometimes they have to, and I am sure the police in your country have killed bad people.



Jesus did not tell the man that he was doing wrong. John the baptizer did not tell the soldiers to give up their job either.



What don't you get about we have the law for bad people and are able to use force to control the masses?
And why can't you get it that I'm not talking about the law, that is what what the world is governed by. But I'm saying that I believe that those born of God should not take up arms to fight others. Why can't you see what I'm saying?

And John the Baptist still told the soldiers to do violence to no man, and Jesus taught not to kill and use violence too. And one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not kill!

I'm not talking about those who don't know God, but those who are born of God and walk in the Spirit.

How can you not see what I'm saying?

God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 12:46 AM
And why can't you get it that I'm not talking about the law, that is what what the world is governed by. But I'm saying that I believe that those born of God should not take up arms to fight others. Why can't you see what I'm saying?

And John the Baptist still told the soldiers to do violence to no man, and Jesus taught not to kill and use violence too. And one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not kill!

I'm not talking about those who don't know God, but those who are born of God and walk in the Spirit.

How can you not see what I'm saying?

John was explaining not to be a crooked soldier. Soldiers will have to be violent at some point. There were guards who wiped people and tortured them and put people to death.

You give too many mixed messages.

Tell me, what do you think this scripture means:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

marhig
April 18th, 2017, 01:01 AM
John was explaining not to be a crooked soldier. Soldiers will have to be violent at some point. There were guards who wiped people and tortured them and put people to death.

You give too many mixed messages.

Tell me, what do you think this scripture means:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

No GT John said do violence to NO man. None! And if we ask what should we do, we'd get the same answer, because that's what God wants his people to do according to John the Baptist, Jesus and Paul anyway!

Jesus came in peace. The weapon he used was the sword of the spirit! You can't preach obedience and then deny what is clearly in the scriptures.

And that scripture, regarding a sin into death. We can ask God for life for those who sin a sin not into death, because there are those who will listen about the things of God, and that life is the wisdom of the spirit to help them. But blasphemy is a sin into death, because people who blaspheme reject God and can't live, so they are sinning into death, how can we help those who refuse God and blaspheme the spirit? We can't. We can only live it out before them, hope that one day they will hear God's word.

God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 01:08 AM
No GT John said do violence to NO man. None!

No, John did not say that. John was saying do not harm someone in a crooked manner.




And if we ask what should we do, we'd get the same answer, because that's what God wants his people to do!

Leave me alone now about it because you are seriously wrong, for you even said yourself that you would get violent with someone hurting your child or elderly parent.



And that scripture, regarding a sin into death. We can ask God for life for those who sin a sin not into death, because there are those who will listen about the things of God, and that life is the wisdom of the spirit to help them. But blasphemy is a sin into death, because people who blaspheme reject God and can't live, so they are sinning into death, how can we help those who refuse God and blaspheme the spirit? We can't. We can only live it out before them, hope that one day they will hear God's word.

That is not what that scripture means.

The scripture is about if you see a brother or sister sin that leads to death---not to pray that they not be put to death by the authorities.

marhig
April 18th, 2017, 01:18 AM
No, John did not say that. John was saying do not harm someone in a crooked manner.



Leave me alone now about it because you are seriously wrong, for you even said yourself that you would get violent with someone hurting your child or elderly parent.


That is not what that scripture means.

The scripture is about if you see a brother or sister sin that leads to death---not to pray that they not be put to death by the authorities.
Oh no, is that what you see that scripture as meaning?. No GT it doesn't mean that. It's spiritual and he's talking about spiritual death not natural death!

And your saying John didn't say that, yes he did. Here are his exact words

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, DO VIOLENCE TO NO MAN, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages

And if you don't want to speak about it, ok. You could just stop bringing it up! But you can't tell me that John didn't say or mean that, when that's exactly what he says, and then expect me to say nothing!

God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 01:25 AM
Soldiers may use force---they are soldiers! John was explaining to them not to be crooked.

Luke 3:14 The soldiers also once and again inquired of him, "And we, what are we to do?" His answer was, "Neither intimidate any one nor lay false charges; and be content with your pay."

Matthew 8:8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

Jesus did NOT tell the centurion with soldiers not to have soldiers anymore.

Here is Romans 13 in your choice of translation, and note that it says RULERS. You want to claim it is not about established government---then tell me what RULERS it is speaking about.

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2Whosoever therefore resists the power, resists the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves judgment.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Will you then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and you shall have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid; for he bears not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that does evil.

5Therefore you must be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience's sake.

6For, for this cause pay you tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.


You also tried to tell me what I said about 1 Peter 2:14 was wrong.

I will again use your choice translation and it will speak about the government too:

Submit to All in Authority

13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15For so is the will of God, that with well doing you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16As free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

18Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

Now enough of your game playing by saying the scriptures are not saying what they say.

Peter is speaking to believers about how they can be punished by the government if they do wrong.