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God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:01 PM
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 01:26 PM
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.

Amen, good post, but even circumcision is still necessary because in the supernal way it concerns circumcision of the heart; and Messiah has become or "has been made Minister of the circumcision", (for the truth of God), as Paul himself says:

Romans 15:7-9 ASV
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, even as Christ also received you, to the glory of God.
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,
9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, Therefore will I give praise unto thee among the Gentiles, And sing unto thy name.

I perceive "Minister of the circumcision" in much the same way that I perceive Messiah to be "Mediator of the new testament", (Heb 9:15), and "Mediator of the new covenant", (Heb 12:24). And, yes, I also agree that when Paul speaks of "the works of the law" in the bad sense he is speaking of the physical outward things for which physical circumcision is the primary outward sign in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing.

SaulToPaul
April 14th, 2017, 01:29 PM
Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.


Romans 4:11 (KJV)

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:33 PM
Amen, good post, but even circumcision is still necessary because in the supernal way it concerns circumcision of the heart; and Messiah has become or "has been made Minister of the circumcision", (for the truth of God), as Paul himself says:

Romans 15:7-9 ASV
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, even as Christ also received you, to the glory of God.
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,
9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, Therefore will I give praise unto thee among the Gentiles, And sing unto thy name.

I perceive "Minister of the circumcision" in much the same way that I perceive Messiah to be "Mediator of the new testament", (Heb 9:15), and "Mediator of the new covenant", (Heb 12:24). And, yes, I also agree that when Paul speaks of "the works of the law" in the bad sense he is speaking of the physical outward things for which physical circumcision is the primary outward sign in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing.

Amen, amen for saying good post; except, circumcision of the flesh is no longer necessary. Circumcision of the flesh was about a sign, a seal---now the Holy Spirit is our sign and seal.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:37 PM
Romans 4:11 (KJV)

Abraham was considered righteous because he had living faith that is faith with obedience. Circumcision in the flesh was an outward sign. God promised a time in the future when circumcision would not be required. God never said there would be a time when obedience would no longer be required.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 02:07 PM
Amen, amen for saying good post; except, circumcision of the flesh is no longer necessary. Circumcision of the flesh was about a sign, a seal---now the Holy Spirit is our sign and seal.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant:

Circumcision is of the heart and remains absolutely necessary.

Right Divider
April 14th, 2017, 02:10 PM
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 02:20 PM
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant:

Circumcision is of the heart and remains absolutely necessary.

Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 02:21 PM
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.

Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 02:53 PM
Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.

Now you got it! :)

But see now you can run around saying, "You must be circumcised!", and those who do not walk according to the Spirit will likely go into violent convulsions and start calling you all sorts of vile names and epitaphs, (and if they already do anyways then who cares?). And when they do I just chuckle, (and that usually causes even worse convulsions with accusations of "fallen from grace" and "mocking God"). :chuckle:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 14th, 2017, 03:09 PM
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.

GT has her own way of thinking and can't go beyond that. She has made herself UNTEACHABLE when it comes to the truths of Paul's Gospel. Paul calls it his Gospel, for he received it from the "Ascended Lord Jesus Christ." Most people have rejected this "True Gospel" and insist on trying to EARN eternal life/Salvation on their own. Both GT and Meshak would rather try and EARN it than RECEIVE it freely from God. That's their right according to their free-will choice.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 14th, 2017, 03:12 PM
Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Keep in mind that the book of John is relating to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" and not to the Gentiles.

Tambora
April 14th, 2017, 04:23 PM
People misunderstand Paul. We know you do.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 04:43 PM
Now you got it! :)

But see now you can run around saying, "You must be circumcised!", and those who do not walk according to the Spirit will likely go into violent convulsions and start calling you all sorts of vile names and epitaphs, (and if they already do anyways then who cares?). And when they do I just chuckle, (and that usually causes even worse convulsions with accusations of "fallen from grace" and "mocking God"). :chuckle:

HA! Exactly!

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 04:54 PM
GT has her own way of thinking and can't go beyond that. She has made herself UNTEACHABLE when it comes to the truths of Paul's Gospel. Paul calls it his Gospel, for he received it from the "Ascended Lord Jesus Christ." Most people have rejected this "True Gospel" and insist on trying to EARN eternal life/Salvation on their own. Both GT and Meshak would rather try and EARN it than RECEIVE it freely from God. That's their right according to their free-will choice.

My life changed when I finally did what Jesus says.
Doing what he says is light, it is life, it is Spirit.
I depend on him for everything.
He transforms my mind.
He lives through me and I through him.

As for Paul calling it his gospel, he said that because he is an apostle, and apostles are not taught by other people they are the ones speaking scripture.

Paul calls it the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 04:56 PM
Keep in mind that the book of John is relating to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" and not to the Gentiles.

It was decided that Paul go to the Gentiles, not because of a different gospel.
You are not a Corinthian, and you are not Timothy or Titus, but you read and go by those letters.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 04:57 PM
We know you do.

I know you think I do. I would like to show you how I know what Paul says.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 05:24 PM
Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.


HA! Exactly!

Israelites who are truly circumcised according to the scripture are all pretty much circumcised in the same manner. The are four "generations" to the first age of the man, like the four seasons in the full revolution of a year: Autumn, Winter, Spring, and the Summer of your harvest, (hear the parable of the fig tree). These four generations are likened unto four beasts which are the beasts of man, (the fourth beast is dreadful and terrible). And these things we know because the scripture cannot be broken, and in the new covenant every man will die for his own sins; the fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, neither shall the sons be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin, (Deut 24:16), and yet we read also in the Torah the statements of Gen 15:16, Exo 20:5, 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9. So with these statements and what is written in Eze 18:2, 3, 4, and Jer 31:27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (both of these passages being new covenant language), there can be only one resolution if all of it be true; and that is that there must be four generations to the one selfsame man, (for the scripture cannot be broken and all of it must be held true and without contradiction).

Proverbs 30:11-14
11 There is a generation [1] that curses their father and does not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Dan 7:7, "great iron teeth"] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

These four generations are like a lion or a lioness, (Septuagint version of Dan 7:4), a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a leopard or a leopardess, and a fourth wild beast dreadful and terrible, with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth as knives. Moreover the fourth beast has a full-on heart of stone like Pharaoh that great dragon in the midst of his rivers; and over that heart of stone develops a caul or chestplate of iron so that it ends up taking these four beasts just to cleave open the hardened chestplate of iron, (for Elohim uses our own wild beasts against us to bring us into true repentance while at the same time putting the beasts of man into subjection, (the flesh, "their lives are prolonged for a season and a time")). And at the consummation of the first "age" or "dispensation" of the man, in his "fourth generation" which is his fourth beast; the iron chestplate of the caul over the heart is rent asunder and cleaved open so that the heart may be removed for circumcision by the Master, the Minister of the circumcision, (Hos 13:6-11, Dan 7:2-11, Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, Rev 13:2). In that day Zerubbabel himself will remove the headstone heart of stone from the cavity of the wild beast of the man; and there will be shouts of "Grace! Grace to him!", (Zec 4:7, 2Cor 12:1-8, 9). And from that time time shall be no more; and so shall the holy ones ever be with the Master in the age which is to come, (and in this age they cannot die anymore; for they are as the angels, and are sons of Elohim, being sons of the resurrection, Luke 20:36). :)

jsanford108
April 14th, 2017, 08:43 PM
I think you make a good point.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 10:57 PM
Israelites who are truly circumcised according to the scripture are all pretty much circumcised in the same manner. The are four "generations" to the first age of the man, like the four seasons in the full revolution of a year: Autumn, Winter, Spring, and the Summer of your harvest, (hear the parable of the fig tree). These four generations are likened unto four beasts which are the beasts of man, (the fourth beast is dreadful and terrible). And these things we know because the scripture cannot be broken, and in the new covenant every man will die for his own sins; the fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, neither shall the sons be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin, (Deut 24:16), and yet we read also in the Torah the statements of Gen 15:16, Exo 20:5, 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9. So with these statements and what is written in Eze 18:2, 3, 4, and Jer 31:27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (both of these passages being new covenant language), there can be only one resolution if all of it be true; and that is that there must be four generations to the one selfsame man, (for the scripture cannot be broken and all of it must be held true and without contradiction).

Proverbs 30:11-14
11 There is a generation [1] that curses their father and does not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Dan 7:7, "great iron teeth"] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

These four generations are like a lion or a lioness, (Septuagint version of Dan 7:4), a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a leopard or a leopardess, and a fourth wild beast dreadful and terrible, with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth as knives. Moreover the fourth beast has a full-on heart of stone like Pharaoh that great dragon in the midst of his rivers; and over that heart of stone develops a caul or chestplate of iron so that it ends up taking these four beasts just to cleave open the hardened chestplate of iron, (for Elohim uses our own wild beasts against us to bring us into true repentance while at the same time putting the beasts of man into subjection, (the flesh, "their lives are prolonged for a season and a time")). And at the consummation of the first "age" or "dispensation" of the man, in his "fourth generation" which is his fourth beast; the iron chestplate of the caul over the heart is rent asunder and cleaved open so that the heart may be removed for circumcision by the Master, the Minister of the circumcision, (Hos 13:6-11, Dan 7:2-11, Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, Rev 13:2). In that day Zerubbabel himself will remove the headstone heart of stone from the cavity of the wild beast of the man; and there will be shouts of "Grace! Grace to him!", (Zec 4:7, 2Cor 12:1-8, 9). And from that time time shall be no more; and so shall the holy ones ever be with the Master in the age which is to come, (and in this age they cannot die anymore; for they are as the angels, and are sons of Elohim, being sons of the resurrection, Luke 20:36). :)

I am not sure I understand all that you are saying here. Maybe you could explain it more to me?

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 09:04 AM
I am not sure I understand all that you are saying here. Maybe you could explain it more to me?

All the meaning is supernal, or "spiritual", and concerns our walk, and it is based in the Testimony of Messiah. You can see the four generations in several places in the Gospel accounts also, such as follows:

Matthew 12:36-45 KJV
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

Every man is likened to a house: when the prince of the power of the air, (Eph 2:2), and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit traverses through dry-arid desert places, seeking rest and finding none. Then he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out", and when he is come he finds it empty, and swept, and garnished with new idols and trinkets. Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; the princes, the governors, the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, even all the rulers of the provinces, (Dan 3:2), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of the man is worse off than the first. No exceptions to the rule for those who believe the Testimony of Messiah in the above Matthew passage. But these things are allegories, parables, sayings, idiomatic statements, and typology, (and sin dwells in the temple "outer boundaries" of the flesh, not with the inner man, Rom 7:14-25). I will attempt explain the first beast, the lion, from the Testimony of the Master. As may be seen from Matthew 12:36-37 quoted above, the beginning of these things concern our words and what comes forth from the mouth; and it is what comes forth from the mouth that defiles the man.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies: [7]
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Who is willing to believe this to its full conclusion throughout all of his or her doctrine? It impacts everything, even prophecy; for the prophets spoke concerning Messiah, and his teachings expound the Torah and the prophets. The "possession" of Nebuchadnezzar reveals a critical clue concerning the first beast, and that is, that the heart of Nebuchadnezzar was changed from that of a man to that of a beast, (we will later find out that this is the first beast of the lion). Nebuchadnezzar is also likened to a tree, just as we all are, (and every man is like a dominion, a realm, a kingdom, even four dominions to the first "age" of the man; for the kingdom of Elohim is within us, (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)).

Daniel 4:13-17 KJV
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

And what does this ultimately concern according to what follows in the same passage? What brings it all to come to pass? It is his own pride and stout-heartedness, by way of his own words coming forth from his own mouth, which thoughts and intentions proceeded from his heart; and this is what brings the decree upon king Nebuchadnezzar, (Dan 4:30-31). But in the vision of the four beasts we see the same thing from an opposite perspective; we see that the lionlike beast is given the heart of the man. This is the same but rather from the perspective of the four beasts overtaking the "dominion" of the man:

Daniel 7:2-4 KJV
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

What does it mean by way of the Testimony of Messiah? The heart of the man is given over to the first beast which is a lion. Therefore we see in the Apocalypse that the composite beast speaks with the mouth of lion; for those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man: for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies [7].

Therefore the composite beast speaks with the mouth of a lion; for his heart is given over to a lionlike beast:

Revelation 13:2 KJV
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:6
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those tabernacling in the heavens.

This is nothing new: it goes on right here in this forum all day long, every day of the week, and the tree is known by its fruits; but there is a day coming that is to each in his or her own appointed times, (for the heart to be circumcised by the Master and the Minister of the supernal circumcision of the heart, as we already spoke about).

Hosea 13:6-11
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten Me.
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, [a chestplate of iron] and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help.
10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave you a king in My displeasure: and will take him away in My fury!

And of course the "king" in the final statement of the above passage is not a king that can be seen with the eyes of the flesh; nay, seven heads, which are seven mountains, and there be seven kings, and the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to be cast out into the dry-arid desert places: and that one goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself. And who shall live when El does this? Out of Zion shall come forth the Deliverer, and in this manner shall the all Israel and olive tree of the Father be saved, each in his or her own appointed times, no exceptions to the rule. But it is all meant for good, just as the good and final outcome for Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4.

Jeremiah 31:26-31 KJV
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

Right Divider
April 15th, 2017, 10:41 AM
My life changed when I finally did what Jesus says.

This is THE perfect example of a LOST person.

I, I, I.... you're all about YOU!

Right Divider
April 15th, 2017, 10:43 AM
Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
You ALWAYS go back to the books written by those of the circumcision who were under the law.
You reject the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul.

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 11:14 AM
You ALWAYS go back to the books written by those of the circumcision who were under the law.
You reject the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul.

GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 12:00 PM
This is THE perfect example of a LOST person.

I, I, I.... you're all about YOU!

Salvation is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 12:10 PM
GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.

There appears to be a very fine line between "right-divider" and "heretic-divider", (lol).

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 12:14 PM
You ALWAYS go back to the books written by those of the circumcision who were under the law.
You reject the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul.

The truth is for all.
You do not even understand what is being revealed.

patrick jane
April 15th, 2017, 12:18 PM
Paul calls it the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.And my gospel

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 12:19 PM
GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.

Amen. Perfect.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 12:26 PM
And my gospel

It is yours if you own it by believing and obeying it.

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 12:34 PM
And my gospel

Paul's Gospel includes The Revelation, (Gal 1:12 KJV, Rev 1:1a KJV). Does yours? :)

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 01:07 PM
All the meaning is supernal, or "spiritual", and concerns our walk, and it is based in the Testimony of Messiah. You can see the four generations in several places in the Gospel accounts also, such as follows:

Matthew 12:36-45 KJV
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

Every man is likened to a house: when the prince of the power of the air, (Eph 2:2), and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit traverses through dry-arid desert places, seeking rest and finding none. Then he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out", and when he is come he finds it empty, and swept, and garnished with new idols and trinkets. Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; the princes, the governors, the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, even all the rulers of the provinces, (Dan 3:2), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of the man is worse off than the first. No exceptions to the rule for those who believe the Testimony of Messiah in the above Matthew passage. But these things are allegories, parables, sayings, idiomatic statements, and typology, (and sin dwells in the temple "outer boundaries" of the flesh, not with the inner man, Rom 7:14-25). I will attempt explain the first beast, the lion, from the Testimony of the Master. As may be seen from Matthew 12:36-37 quoted above, the beginning of these things concern our words and what comes forth from the mouth; and it is what comes forth from the mouth that defiles the man.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies: [7]
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Who is willing to believe this to its full conclusion throughout all of his or her doctrine? It impacts everything, even prophecy; for the prophets spoke concerning Messiah, and his teachings expound the Torah and the prophets. The "possession" of Nebuchadnezzar reveals a critical clue concerning the first beast, and that is, that the heart of Nebuchadnezzar was changed from that of a man to that of a beast, (we will later find out that this is the first beast of the lion). Nebuchadnezzar is also likened to a tree, just as we all are, (and every man is like a dominion, a realm, a kingdom, even four dominions to the first "age" of the man; for the kingdom of Elohim is within us, (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)).

Daniel 4:13-17 KJV
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

And what does this ultimately concern according to what follows in the same passage? What brings it all to come to pass? It is his own pride and stout-heartedness, by way of his own words coming forth from his own mouth, which thoughts and intentions proceeded from his heart; and this is what brings the decree upon king Nebuchadnezzar, (Dan 4:30-31). But in the vision of the four beasts we see the same thing from an opposite perspective; we see that the lionlike beast is given the heart of the man. This is the same but rather from the perspective of the four beasts overtaking the "dominion" of the man:

Daniel 7:2-4 KJV
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

What does it mean by way of the Testimony of Messiah? The heart of the man is given over to the first beast which is a lion. Therefore we see in the Apocalypse that the composite beast speaks with the mouth of lion; for those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man: for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies [7].

Therefore the composite beast speaks with the mouth of a lion; for his heart is given over to a lionlike beast:

Revelation 13:2 KJV
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:6
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those tabernacling in the heavens.

This is nothing new: it goes on right here in this forum all day long, every day of the week, and the tree is known by its fruits; but there is a day coming that is to each in his or her own appointed times, (for the heart to be circumcised by the Master and the Minister of the supernal circumcision of the heart, as we already spoke about).

Hosea 13:6-11
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten Me.
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, [a chestplate of iron] and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help.
10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave you a king in My displeasure: and will take him away in My fury!

And of course the "king" in the final statement of the above passage is not a king that can be seen with the eyes of the flesh; nay, seven heads, which are seven mountains, and there be seven kings, and the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to be cast out into the dry-arid desert places: and that one goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself. And who shall live when El does this? Out of Zion shall come forth the Deliverer, and in this manner shall the all Israel and olive tree of the Father be saved, each in his or her own appointed times, no exceptions to the rule. But it is all meant for good, just as the good and final outcome for Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4.

Jeremiah 31:26-31 KJV
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

I am going to take time to study this, thank you.

patrick jane
April 15th, 2017, 01:09 PM
Paul's Gospel includes The Revelation, (Gal 1:12 KJV, Rev 1:1a KJV). Does yours? :)I was saying that Paul also says "my gospel"

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 01:13 PM
I was saying that Paul also says "my gospel"

...but a major point of truth is that it is 'our' gospel and Paul is not saying it is his as if it is not the other apostles too.

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 01:43 PM
I am going to take time to study this, thank you.

:thumb:


I was saying that Paul also says "my gospel"

:thumb: Then I responded correctly. :)

Right Divider
April 15th, 2017, 02:13 PM
Salvation is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Indeed, and it's received by faith BEFORE any obedience of ANY kind can occur.


Eph 2:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Saved BY GRACE (the GIFT of God) unto good works that we should walk in them.

Right Divider
April 15th, 2017, 02:14 PM
The truth is for all.
You do not even understand what is being revealed.
You can try to believe that you are an Israelite under the law. You have a rude awakening coming.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 02:55 PM
You can try to believe that you are an Israelite under the law. You have a rude awakening coming.

Yep!

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:02 PM
...but a major point of truth is that it is 'our' gospel and Paul is not saying it is his as if it is not the other apostles too.

Paul met the Ascended Christ on the road to Damascus and subsequently received the "Grace Gospel" that he was to preach to the Gentiles and any Jews that would place their faith in Christ alone. He was called "The Apostle to the Gentiles" Paul's Gospel is different than what the other Apostles were preaching, which was, "The Kingdom Gospel" which was preached ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 15th, 2017, 03:15 PM
Most people are unaware that the crown of thorns (symbolism of Nun and Sin) are the circumcision of the Son of God (Adam). It's important to know what he paid as the Lamb of the fall of mankind.

Genesis 9:6

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

NOG version. Elohim is the Father resting in Genesis 2:1-3. Yahweh is the Lord, or Son. He shed human blood, thereby paying this cost. Paul never mentions this.

What form of faith are you affiliated with? Jewish, Lutheran, Catholic, Other?

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 03:40 PM
Most people are unaware that the crown of thorns (symbolism of Nun and Sin) are the circumcision of the Son of God (Adam). It's important to know what he paid as the Lamb of the fall of mankind.

Genesis 9:6

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

NOG version. Elohim is the Father resting in Genesis 2:1-3. Yahweh is the Lord, or Son. He shed human blood, thereby paying this cost. Paul never mentions this.

We are circumcised in the the heart when we receive the Holy Spirit.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 03:47 PM
Paul met the Ascended Christ on the road to Damascus and subsequently received the "Grace Gospel" that he was to preach to the Gentiles and any Jews that would place their faith in Christ alone. He was called "The Apostle to the Gentiles" Paul's Gospel is different than what the other Apostles were preaching, which was, "The Kingdom Gospel" which was preached ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Paul received what was already given by Jesus from Jesus when he walked the earth and taught the 12 Apostles to the Lamb.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 03:48 PM
You can try to believe that you are an Israelite under the law. You have a rude awakening coming.

There is a new law. Tell me why Paul is under the law and he is not in for a rude awakening.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 03:49 PM
:thumb:



:thumb: Then I responded correctly. :)

Amen!

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 03:55 PM
Indeed, and it's received by faith BEFORE any obedience of ANY kind can occur.


Eph 2:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Saved BY GRACE (the GIFT of God) unto good works that we should walk in them.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Right Divider
April 15th, 2017, 03:58 PM
There is a new law. Tell me why Paul is under the law and he is not in for a rude awakening.

Rom 6:14 (AKJV/PCE)

(6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Why would Paul tell us that we can NOT under the law?

The law of Christ is NOT "a new law" (if that is how you're trying to confuse it).

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 04:33 PM
Most people are unaware that the crown of thorns (symbolism of Nun and Sin) are the circumcision of the Son of God (Adam). It's important to know what he paid as the Lamb of the fall of mankind.

Genesis 9:6

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

NOG version. Elohim is the Father resting in Genesis 2:1-3. Yahweh is the Lord, or Son. He shed human blood, thereby paying this cost. Paul never mentions this.

Hmmm, where have I heard this doctrine before . . . :think:

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 04:45 PM
Rom 6:14 (AKJV/PCE)

(6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Why would Paul tell us that we can NOT under the law?

The law of Christ is NOT "a new law" (if that is how you're trying to confuse it).

You just called it the LAW of Christ.

You also have NOT addressed the fact that PAUL SAYS he is under the law.

Come on, RD, address the scriptures.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 04:47 PM
Hmmm, where have I heard this doctrine before . . . :think:

What are you thinking? What kind of teaching is this?

Tambora
April 15th, 2017, 05:59 PM
Most people are unaware that the crown of thorns (symbolism of Nun and Sin) are the circumcision of the Son of God (Adam).

Nun is a letter of the Hebrew alphabet that has the basic connotation of seed, offspring, heir, continue.
A seedling continuing the life of the plant/crop. A son or heir continuing the life of the family.
From the ancient pictorial to Modern Hebrew:

Early Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-anc-lg-nun.jpgMiddle Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-middle-lg-nun.jpgLate Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-late-lg-nun.jpgModern Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-modern-lg-nun.jpg

The pictorial is a symbol of a seed sprouting, or sperm impregnating an egg.



Sin or Shin is a letter of the Hebrew alphabet that has the basic connotation of two, double, again, teeth, eat, press, sharp.
Early Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-anc-lg-shin.jpgMiddle Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-middle-lg-shin.jpgLate Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-late-lg-shin.jpgModern Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-modern-lg-shin.jpg

The pictorial represents two teeth, to press on, eat, sharp.




How are you getting a "crown of thorns" out of that?????????????????????

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 06:00 PM
What are you thinking? What kind of teaching is this?

Well, I'll just say I'm pretty sure I know who that is, (not a very common doctrine among circles such as this), but it would be out of place to speak for someone else.

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 06:01 PM
What are you thinking? What kind of teaching is this?


Well, I'll just say I'm pretty sure I know who that is, (not a very common doctrine among circles such as this), but it would be out of place to speak for someone else.

Ah, I see with Tambora's post just before mine that you are about to find out. :chuckle:

daqq
April 15th, 2017, 07:54 PM
You would be correct. The doctrine you speak of is what the words say by context from beginning to end of creation.

Start with this one, then give a good reason it was never mentioned in the New Testament, even thought it is central to the story of the Cross:

Genesis 9

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.
7 Be fertile, and increase in number. Spread over the earth, and increase.”

Problem is that neither the Father nor the Son ever shed any physical blood of man. It appears you are still reading supernal and spiritual writings with a physical mindset understanding; which is really not much different from most here, just another different take or theory, (and still a very bad idea switching the Father with His Son who is His Word). Be sure you introduce yourself to "Evil.Eye.<(I)>", (he is easy to influence and deserves your teachings, lol). :)

Tambora
April 15th, 2017, 09:03 PM
SHIN and SIN are two different letters. While Shin represents two front teeth, sin and nun are next to each other. SIN is the thistle, or thorn. In the Christmas Song, it's all he wants for Christmas.

Two front teeth (SHIN) is the light consuming the coal (Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons). As the song goes, Sister Susie sitting on a Thistle, or NUN on the SIN. The Nun (Sister Susie) sits on the priests thistle (NUN). The harlot and seed. Corruption of the seed is the fall of man, or the sin of the Son of Man in the garden at the foundation.

Payment for this is the shedding of the Lamb's blood, or the rib taken to divide Adam's perfect image into a division of Male and Female. We see the fall as a sin, but in reality, it is the purpose of God to divide the first seed into new growth.

Now, go back to your letters, but don't leave out the SIN.You have been here before under a different username.


And the letter you are confusing Shin/Sim with is Samehh.

Samehh

Early Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-anc-lg-samehh.jpgMiddle Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-middle-lg-samehh.jpgLate Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-late-lg-samehh.jpgModern Hebrew http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/heb-modern-lg-samehh.jpg

The pictorial is of a thorn, and has the meaning of thorn, take hold, prick, hate, protect.
As in a hedge of thorns that protects what it holds inside or destroys what it holds inside.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 06:12 AM
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.

If it wasn't so pitiful then this OP would be the most hilarious statement I have ever read. It is only my knowledge of what faces you that prevents me from laughing out loud. If you only knew the dread and terror you face you would prefer never to have been born.



"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that trust in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea".

"But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 07:53 AM
Well, I'll just say I'm pretty sure I know who that is, (not a very common doctrine among circles such as this), but it would be out of place to speak for someone else.

I have been debating here for many years and many years before that on other sites and vaguely remember hearing of that type of belief.


Ah, I see with Tambora's post just before mine that you are about to find out. :chuckle:

hahahaha That was good timing.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 07:57 AM
SHIN and SIN are two different letters. While Shin represents two front teeth, sin and nun are next to each other. SIN is the thistle, or thorn. In the Christmas Song, it's all he wants for Christmas.

Two front teeth (SHIN) is the light consuming the coal (Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons). As the song goes, Sister Susie sitting on a Thistle, or NUN on the SIN. The Nun (Sister Susie) sits on the priests thistle (NUN). The harlot and seed. Corruption of the seed is the fall of man, or the sin of the Son of Man in the garden at the foundation.

Payment for this is the shedding of the Lamb's blood, or the rib taken to divide Adam's perfect image into a division of Male and Female. We see the fall as a sin, but in reality, it is the purpose of God to divide the first seed into new growth.

Now, go back to your letters, but don't leave out the SIN.

You are really reaching and kind of all over the place with some truth mixed in. What you are doing is just not necessary and also is not accurate enough. Payment for dividing Adam? God was not paying back Adam for sin, He was giving Adam a proper mate.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:03 AM
Correction since I cannot yet edit.

As the song goes, Sister Susie sitting on a Thistle, or NUN on the SIN. The Nun (Sister Susie) sits on the priests thistle (SIN).

Why go by some song and not only by the Bible?

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:07 AM
You would be correct. The doctrine you speak of is what the words say by context from beginning to end of creation.

Start with this one, then give a good reason it was never mentioned in the New Testament, even thought it is central to the story of the Cross:

Genesis 9

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.
7 Be fertile, and increase in number. Spread over the earth, and increase.”

We know that those who rejected Jesus were destroyed in 70 A.D.
However, there were also some held responsible also forgiven.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:12 AM
Before answering this, allow me to ask you a question. As a Child of God, you are the House of God. Living in you, the eternal Father is always present. As the scriptures say, you are an image of God. As an image of God, there are shadows of this image all around you, all claiming to be representatives of God's image. You even see the definition of a graven image as an image made by the hands of men. We call the Bible the Living Word, yet we already know what the living word is. The Word Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet. WORD is states as this:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Letters (Aleph Bet) write Word. There is an Author. As an image of God, why would I find my faith to worship of an image or shadow? God is already in me. In 1400 BC, the truth of this was inscribed on the walls of Luxor.
God does not live in you until you are chosen by belief with obedience. That is when we are given the Holy Spirit when being saved.

Jesus is called the Word of God because he is God's words. You bring the alphabet into it but with the alphabet many false things can be said.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:18 AM
As was the Son of Man. He was the Aleph Tav (first and last) of scripture.

Jesus is the First and the Last of everything, not just the scriptures that we have.




His MEM (Water) comes at his baptism. What do you get if you add MEM to the Aleph Tav? Aleph Mem Tav is EMET (TRUTH). Take away the Aleph and you get MET (Death). By proclaiming himself God with none beside, he separated himself from his Father (Aleph). Death entered in. Elohim is the Father. To prove this, go to the NOG version of the Bible on Bible Gateway so the names of God are restored. See that he is Yahweh Elohim in Genesis 2 and 3, but not 4. Why? Sin lost the title. He then proclaims himself God (Elohim) of Israel. Death because he had no Aleph. Aleph Tav is Adam, or the Son of Man. Man's Spirit was Yahweh. Above and Below.

There is only one God, and He is the Father. Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son of Man. God the Father is Spirit, and Jesus is Spirit, and when he died, he died in the flesh but lived on in his Spirit where he raised himself.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:21 AM
So the question. What should we call ourselves by? Christian is not the image of the Son of God, but a shadow of the image of God. We are the house of God, all of us. I could call myself Bethel. For more reasons, I choose to remain nameless to the faith I hold until the Son of God returns to demonstrate his character from more than the pages of a book. A book is a shadow only. I have no reason to place my faith in it in any way.

Jesus reveals himself now to those who believe and obey him. That is what he says. You do not know what and how to obey Jesus unless you have his written words.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 08:23 AM
So the question. What should we call ourselves by? Christian is not the image of the Son of God, but a shadow of the image of God. We are the house of God, all of us. I could call myself Bethel. For more reasons, I choose to remain nameless to the faith I hold until the Son of God returns to demonstrate his character from more than the pages of a book. A book is a shadow only. I have no reason to place my faith in it in any way.

I suppose you haven't learned how to answer a question, as of yet.

Right Divider
April 16th, 2017, 08:27 AM
You just called it the LAW of Christ.

Gal 6:2 (AKJV/PCE)

(6:2) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.



You also have NOT addressed the fact that PAUL SAYS he is under the law.
Come on, RD, address the scriptures.
Come on GT, QUOTE the SCRIPTURE and I can address it.

P.S. Paul was an ISRAELITE.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 16th, 2017, 08:28 AM
It was decided that Paul go to the Gentiles, not because of a different gospel.
You are not a Corinthian, and you are not Timothy or Titus, but you read and go by those letters.

Your "presentation" is off-kilter, as usual.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:28 AM
Oddly, I know what you are saying. By supernal and spiritual, you are asserting that none of the death and destruction in the Bible was real, but only a story. I actually agree with you, but not for the reason you might assume.

WORD is the illusion of reality here in an image (hologram). Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet, which are the letters writing the word (DNA to Form). The illusion of this life we live is akin to our understanding to a hologram, so in truth, there is never bloodshed at all. It's an illusion. Death is also an illusion. As you aptly point out, the 'I' here in this reality is not YOU. You are much older by many lives.

I still yield to the influence of Genesis 9:6 on the contrary influence of Yahweh. Apart from knowing the difference, we do not know the way a Father raises a Son. As you say, knowing who I am is the key. Yes.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Invisible God is collective (like the unnamed in Tao 1). Named things are relative, or from the relative Prime. All of us are the relative(s). One and many. Echad and never Yachid. Look up those words.

Too much to type, but I do understand. In my username, a link to the rest of my understanding.

Galatians 5:10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty.

As for the scripture about shedding man's blood---that was about any human shedding any man's blood, which can be forgiven if one turns to Christ.

Moses shed a man's blood, as Paul had part in shedding many people's blood.

You have been caught in confusion.

Interplanner
April 16th, 2017, 08:35 AM
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.





It's slightly different from that GT. The believer doesn't have this compulsion that they have to obey God. It is better than that. They want to. Justification from their sins inspires them to want to obey, to want to tell others, to want others to enjoy the gift of justification, too.

Maybe you didn't mean to convey a sense of compulsion, but you do, the way it is stated in the OP.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:37 AM
No confusion. Sin is the ancient name for Samech. Samech is a voiceless alveolar fricative, while sin is a putative voiceless lateral fricative. This does not change my original comment that Nun and Sin are primary to the crown of thorns as symbolism for dividing the seed and God's image. It's the reason for the cross.

Genesis 9:6

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

Did Paul know this? Did Jesus know? Both had to know, yet failed to mention it. The facts surrounding the Demons knowing Jesus as the Lord of Hosts is evident. He was there paying for his own bloodshed. Example after example of his selfishness.

Isaiah 48

11 I am doing this for myself, only for myself.
Why should my name be dishonored?
I will not give my glory to anyone else.

This self was left at the cross, forsaken by Elohim for one reason. He had to face himself in his own judgment. We must all judge our own lower nature, giving it over to God by releasing our authority and dominion over to the Father in faith. This is what the Son did on the cross.

While Jesus the man may not have sinned, as Lord Yahweh he had plenty.

So you say God the Father had sinned because He had many die?

Why do you look at it in such a way?

It is as if you judge God the Father.

God says in the Old Testament that since we are like Him, we can put to death a person who has done wrong.

Make sure not to confuse the killing Cain did to his brother with the same judgment to God the Father who had people killed.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:44 AM
It's slightly different from that GT. The believer doesn't have this compulsion that they have to obey God.

That is not true. How do you get that? Here is where you can come out of that false teaching you were snatched up in.



It is better than that.
Okay, now we are discussing deeper things. They want to obey.




They want to. Justification from their sins inspires them to want to obey, to want to tell others, to want others to enjoy the gift of justification, too.

Maybe you didn't mean to convey a sense of compulsion, but you do, the way it is stated in the OP.

Now you need to explain more to me. Paul speaks of himself and other Jews who were CUT OFF. Not all Jews were cut off when Jesus came to earth and preached.

There were Jews who did obey and obey blamelessly.

Paul is speaking to the cut off Jews and to those who did not have faith. Paul was one of the cut off Jews.

It did not take faith to obey the old law, it took the purification/ceremonial works. God did not like it that a person could sin, give a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. However, if they did those things, they could be called a child of God. God cut off those Jews when Jesus came to earth and preached.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:49 AM
Gal 6:2 (AKJV/PCE)

(6:2) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.



Come on GT, QUOTE the SCRIPTURE and I can address it.

P.S. Paul was an ISRAELITE.

Paul was an Israelite, he was one of the cut off Jews that could not hear and understand Jesus.

Only the Jews who already had faith in God before Jesus came could come to Jesus to be saved.

They are the ones who followed him while he walked the earth.

Right Divider
April 16th, 2017, 08:53 AM
Paul was an Israelite, he was one of the cut off Jews that could not hear and understand Jesus.

Only the Jews who already had faith in God before Jesus came could come to Jesus to be saved.

They are the ones who followed him while he walked the earth.
WHERE is the SCRIPTURE that you were supposed to QUOTE about Paul being under the law?

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 08:56 AM
WHERE is the SCRIPTURE that you were supposed to QUOTE about Paul being under the law?

1 Corinthians 9:23 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 09:02 AM
If it wasn't so pitiful then this OP would be the most hilarious statement I have ever read. It is only my knowledge of what faces you that prevents me from laughing out loud. If you only knew the dread and terror you face you would prefer never to have been born.

No, Truster, you cannot cause me to fear obeying Jesus.
You are the one who should fear for yourself.
Show one scripture that shows anyone being rebuked or punished for obeying.
Do it now or repent for falling for the snare of the devil.

I do want to say that I am glad that you came out of your blocking mode and will engage in debate.

Interplanner
April 16th, 2017, 09:04 AM
That is not true. How do you get that? Here is where you can come out of that false teaching you were snatched up in.


Okay, now we are discussing deeper things. They want to obey.



Now you need to explain more to me. Paul speaks of himself and other Jews who were CUT OFF. Not all Jews were cut off when Jesus came to earth and preached.

There were Jews who did obey and obey blamelessly.

Paul is speaking to the cut off Jews and to those who did not have faith. Paul was one of the cut off Jews.

It did not take faith to obey the old law, it took the purification/ceremonial works. God did not like it that a person could sin, give a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. However, if they did those things, they could be called a child of God. God cut off those Jews when Jesus came to earth and preached.




Was there something in the OP that showed you were just dealing with one group like that?

My remark about compulsion is for all believers now. We are to be marked be 'freely you have received, freely give.' Ie, no compulsion which is mentally unhealthy.

But no, those who were cut off were declared to be so on this side of the Gospel and because of their unbelief. They thought they could obligate God as though they had wages due, Rom 4. All people who do not accept the gift of Christ are the ones who are cut off, but they can rejoin by faith.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 09:05 AM
No, Truster, you cannot cause me to fear obeying Jesus.
You are the one who should fear for yourself.
Show one scripture that shows anyone being rebuked or punished for obeying.
Do it now or repent for falling for the snare of the devil.

You are obeying your imagination and your imagination is fueled by the prince of the power of the air.

I rejoice in what you say, because you are walking, talking proof of the dynamised delusion that was promised in those that hold not the love of the truth.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 09:08 AM
You are obeying your imagination and your imagination is fueled by the prince of the power of the air.

I rejoice in what you say, because you are walking, talking proof of the dynamised delusion that was promised in those that hold not the love of the truth.

Why won't you address the questions that I asked?

Show the scripture that rebukes people for obeying Jesus.

As for you speaking about loving God...God says we love Him by obeying Him.

Do you acknowledge that?

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 09:23 AM
Was there something in the OP that showed you were just dealing with one group like that?
I am dealing with all groups.
Tell me why Peter says people misunderstand Paul.
Tell me because it is where much confusion comes, it is where faith alone comes. It is why people teach we do not have to obey anything or it is condemnation.




My remark about compulsion is for all believers now.

Compulsion is the act of being forced. The Jews who did not have faith were forced into obeying the ceremonial/purification works. They did not have faith, and they were cut off for it.



We are to be marked be 'freely you have received, freely give.' Ie, no compulsion which is mentally unhealthy.

Those who believe and obey God are freely given.



But no, those who were cut off were declared to be so on this side of the Gospel and because of their unbelief.

They were part of the plan because God knew they would go against Him and the Truth. How do you ever get they were on the side of the gospel? People on the side of truth do not get cut off.




They thought they could obligate God as though they had wages due, Rom 4.

...because they did the ceremonial works. The purification/ceremonial works were NOT based on faith. All Jews did the ceremonial works---but not all Jews had faith too. God cut off the Jews who did not have faith. They could be grafted back in since Jesus died---if they do not continue in unbelief.



All people who do not accept the gift of Christ are the ones who are cut off, but they can rejoin by faith.

Obedience was not nailed to the cross. Jesus is the Way, and he tells us what to do to get saved. We have to repent our sins to him.

Faith and no works is about faith and no circumcision/ceremonial works.

That is what people misunderstand about Paul, and from that misunderstanding are many false teachings.

Interplanner
April 16th, 2017, 12:08 PM
I am dealing with all groups.
Tell me why Peter says people misunderstand Paul.
Tell me because it is where much confusion comes, it is where faith alone comes. It is why people teach we do not have to obey anything or it is condemnation.



Compulsion is the act of being forced. The Jews who did not have faith were forced into obeying the ceremonial/purification works. They did not have faith, and they were cut off for it.



Those who believe and obey God are freely given.



They were part of the plan because God knew they would go against Him and the Truth. How do you ever get they were on the side of the gospel? People on the side of truth do not get cut off.



...because they did the ceremonial works. The purification/ceremonial works were NOT based on faith. All Jews did the ceremonial works---but not all Jews had faith too. God cut off the Jews who did not have faith. They could be grafted back in since Jesus died---if they do not continue in unbelief.



Obedience was not nailed to the cross. Jesus is the Way, and he tells us what to do to get saved. We have to repent our sins to him.

Faith and no works is about faith and no circumcision/ceremonial works.

That is what people misunderstand about Paul, and from that misunderstanding are many false teachings.



'On this side of the Gospel' meant people on this side chronologically, not their allegiance.

Yes there must be fruit, but even then, God/Paul do not want compulsion, even self-compulsion. God loves the cheerful giver, he said to the Corinthians, in opposition to acting compulsively.

I have another belief about what was confusing about Paul, and it has to do with why it got mentioned (only) in 2 Peter 3 which is about the end of time. If you are interested I can spell it out.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 12:13 PM
The Lord walked with the Father, but was not the Father.

You make Jesus different than the Father, when Jesus says they are the same.

Jesus is the I Am who spoke in the Old Testament.

Jesus was, and is the Word of God. The Word is God. There is only one God and He is the Father.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 12:21 PM
'On this side of the Gospel' meant people on this side chronologically, not their allegiance.

Chronologically?

All those the Bible chronologically list ARE of the same faith by the same allegiance.

Abel by way of righteous acts and obedience was of righteousness.

Noah by way of preaching righteousness and being righteous.

Abraham by way of obeying righteousness and obeying.

Jacob by wanting it more than anything and becoming righteous.



Yes there must be fruit, but even then, God/Paul do not want compulsion, even self-compulsion. God loves the cheerful giver, he said to the Corinthians, in opposition to acting compulsively.
We have to obey Jesus to get saved. If you call that a compulsion and being forced, then you are badly mistaken. You are delving into Calvinism.



I have another belief about what was confusing about Paul, and it has to do with why it got mentioned (only) in 2 Peter 3 which is about the end of time.

I want to hear what you have to say about Peter and what he was talking about what it is people misunderstand about Paul. No madist will touch that question.




If you are interested I can spell it out.

I am interested, and I want you to spell it out.

God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 12:24 AM
I want to know why no madist will tell me what it is that people misunderstand about Paul.

See 2 Peter 3:16.