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Truster
April 13th, 2017, 05:15 AM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.

If your salvation is based on what has been done for you, to you and on your behalf and your trust is in Yah Shua Messiah having pleased the Father, then you have the makings of a solid foundation.

If you have built on this by making your calling and election sure then you would recognise, know and love the truth that has set you free.

Historically, most people on here hate the truth, deny the truth and abuse those that post the truth. You should know, for an absolute certainty, that if this is the case with you then you have been deluded. You are in the broad way that leads to destruction. The righteous acts you perform are an abomination. When your dread comes, and it will come, He will laugh at you.

I also shall laugh at your calamity;
I shall deride when your dread cometh;
when your dread cometh as devastation
and your calamity cometh as a hurricane;
when tribulation and distress
cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon Me,
but I shall not answer;
they shall seek me early,
but they shall not find me:
for that they hated knowledge,
and did not choose the awe of Yah Veh:
they willed none of my counsel:
they scorned all my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat the fruit of their own way,
and be satiated with their own counsels.
For the apostasy of the gullible
shall slaughter them,
and the serenity of fools shall destroy them.

But whoso hearkeneth unto me
shall tabernacle confidently
and shall relax from dread of evil.

Spockrates
April 13th, 2017, 09:59 AM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.

How do you know?


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Truster
April 13th, 2017, 10:30 AM
How do you know?


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That's what the Bible teaches.

God's Truth
April 13th, 2017, 11:13 AM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.
Obeying the Creator’s words is not building on sand.

Luke 6
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

Truster
April 13th, 2017, 11:43 AM
This message is hidden because God's Truth is on your ignore list.

There is nothing you have to say that I need nor want to hear. You can't hear the truth and you hate the truth, because it glorifies Messiah and puts man and his works in the dust.

daqq
April 13th, 2017, 11:58 AM
This message is hidden because God's Truth is on your ignore list.

There is nothing you have to say that I need nor want to hear. You can't hear the truth and you hate the truth, because it glorifies Messiah and puts man and his works in the dust.

If I remember correctly I also am now on your ignore list after you saying these same things in another thread about how God was going to mock and ridicule those who disagree with you as He destroys them, or something similar, like what you posted here in your OP once again. So I suppose, before you say so yourself, "This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list." Haha, beat you to it, but you will probably repeat it again anyways seeing how you have intentionally blinded yourself to what others have to say. :)

Spockrates
April 13th, 2017, 02:20 PM
That's what the Bible teaches.

Please tell me where, or what words teach it, because I'd like to find out. :)


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Truster
April 13th, 2017, 02:28 PM
Please tell me where, or what words teach it, because I'd like to find out. :)


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When I was converted I began to read the scriptures to discover what had happened to me. Why it had happened and why I should be saved. If you have been converted then do the same. If not then the scriptures are closed to you. In the same way they are closed to most other people on here.

Spockrates
April 13th, 2017, 02:31 PM
When I was converted I began to read the scriptures to discover what had happened to me. Why it had happened and why I should be saved. If you have been converted then do the same. If not then the scriptures are closed to you.

I have an idea what converted means, but please tell me what you mean by the word (I don't want to think apples if you're really talking oranges). :)


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Spockrates
April 13th, 2017, 02:49 PM
Truster: What I mean to say is the words, "If you have been converted," are ambiguous, and so they are confusing. For there are different kinds of conversion and different ways of converting.


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Spockrates
April 13th, 2017, 02:52 PM
Truster: For example, I can be converted in my understanding, or converted in my confidence in what I understand, or converted in my behavior that occurs as a result. See what I mean? That's why I ask what you mean. :)


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meshak
April 13th, 2017, 07:50 PM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.

If your walk with Jesus is without producing fruit by following or obeying Jesus' word, you are building on sand.

There is no salvation without producing fruit.

Truster
April 14th, 2017, 12:07 AM
Truster: For example, I can be converted in my understanding, or converted in my confidence in what I understand, or converted in my behavior that occurs as a result. See what I mean? That's why I ask what you mean. :)


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I asked the same question in regard to many, many words and often stress on here the importance of knowing what words actually mean. The problem is that if you haven't been regenerated you couldn't possibly comprehend what I state. It also opens the door for every idiot and his brother to start derailing the thread with imagined nonsense.

So to put my mind at rest, have you been saved, if so give a brief summary of the moment of your salvation.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 02:19 AM
The problem is that if you haven't been regenerated you couldn't possibly comprehend what I state. It also opens the door for every idiot and his brother to start derailing the thread with imagined nonsense.

So to put my mind at rest, have you been saved, if so give a brief summary of the moment of your salvation.

This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list. (lol).


Obeying the Creator’s words is not building on sand.

Luke 6
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

That is really great GT. You even quoted the Testimony of Messiah from a passage which includes "foundation", the very title of this thread, and which refutes what the OP has said; and yet he says in his own words that it comes from, "every idiot and his brother to start derailing the thread with imagined nonsense." It appears to me that Truster's own storm has not even begun yet; for if he claims that the Testimony of Messiah is from "every idiot and his brother" then he certainly does not actually believe that holy Testimony of the one he claims to know and love. And if his storm had already come no doubt his house would have already been destroyed because it surely is not built on the foundation of the Testimony of Messiah. How can it be when he just belittled and trampled the words of Messiah which you quoted? :)

Truster
April 14th, 2017, 02:32 AM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3733-Ignore-List-for-information-purposes-only

In case you wonder why I don't respond to anything you say it is probably because you have said things in the past that were heretical, vile, derogatory or simply rude. This might have been to me or to others. I then realised that there would be nothing that you have to say that I would want to hear. And that there would be nothing that I can say that you would be able to hear.

Truster
April 14th, 2017, 02:39 AM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.

If your salvation is based on what has been done for you, to you and on your behalf and your trust is in Yah Shua Messiah having pleased the Father, then you have the makings of a solid foundation.

If you have built on this by making your calling and election sure then you would recognise, know and love the truth that has set you free.

Historically, most people on here hate the truth, deny the truth and abuse those that post the truth. You should know, for an absolute certainty, that if this is the case with you then you have been deluded. You are in the broad way that leads to destruction. The righteous acts you perform are an abomination. When your dread comes, and it will come, He will laugh at you.

I also shall laugh at your calamity;
I shall deride when your dread cometh;
when your dread cometh as devastation
and your calamity cometh as a hurricane;
when tribulation and distress
cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon Me,
but I shall not answer;
they shall seek me early,
but they shall not find me:
for that they hated knowledge,
and did not choose the awe of Yah Veh:
they willed none of my counsel:
they scorned all my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat the fruit of their own way,
and be satiated with their own counsels.
For the apostasy of the gullible
shall slaughter them,
and the serenity of fools shall destroy them.

But whoso hearkeneth unto me
shall tabernacle confidently
and shall relax from dread of evil.

That last line "shall relax from the dread of evil" reminds me of posts I made in regard to gun ownership on this and on other sites. Americans always come back with the right to own a gun just incase they face an intruder in their home or an armed person anywhere else. This is of course "the dread of evil". Selah or go figure.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 03:07 AM
If I remember correctly I also am now on your ignore list after you saying these same things in another thread about how God was going to mock and ridicule those who disagree with you as He destroys them, or something similar, like what you posted here in your OP once again. So I suppose, before you say so yourself, "This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list." Haha, beat you to it, but you will probably repeat it again anyways seeing how you have intentionally blinded yourself to what others have to say. :)


This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list. (lol).


This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3733-Ignore-List-for-information-purposes-only




http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Truster http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=4981364#post4981364)
...and so:

This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.



Cool! Thank you, thank you very much. :)

:rotfl:


In these replies #56 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4978661&viewfull=1#post4978661), #60 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4978684&viewfull=1#post4978684), #61 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4978686&viewfull=1#post4978686), #62 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4978688&viewfull=1#post4978688), #64 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4979194&viewfull=1#post4979194), #65 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4979484&viewfull=1#post4979484), #71 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123976-quot-It-is-Finished-and-Jesus-is-Lord-quot&p=4979651&viewfull=1#post4979651), you called my heavenly Father the devil and Satan. You are already judged a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit by the Testimony of Messiah, that is, The Word, and the wrath of Elohim abides upon you according to The Word.

Truster
April 14th, 2017, 03:47 AM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

daqq
April 14th, 2017, 04:01 AM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

Yes, no doubt you think your blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be ignored and swept under the rug just because you yourself ignore it and sweep it under the rug.

Truster
April 14th, 2017, 04:25 AM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 09:01 AM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list. (lol).



That is really great GT. You even quoted the Testimony of Messiah from a passage which includes "foundation", the very title of this thread, and which refutes what the OP has said; and yet he says in his own words that it comes from, "every idiot and his brother to start derailing the thread with imagined nonsense." It appears to me that Truster's own storm has not even begun yet; for if he claims that the Testimony of Messiah is from "every idiot and his brother" then he certainly does not actually believe that holy Testimony of the one he claims to know and love. And if his storm had already come no doubt his house would have already been destroyed because it surely is not built on the foundation of the Testimony of Messiah. How can it be when he just belittled and trampled the words of Messiah which you quoted? :)

Amen, beautifully and perfectly written, thank you, excellent reading.
Truster went against God's Word I hope that we can help him see the Truth but he blocks us.
How does anyone get so ensnared by the devil that they think it is admirable to do nothing? They have fallen for the masquerading light.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 09:06 AM
That last line "shall relax from the dread of evil" reminds me of posts I made in regard to gun ownership on this and on other sites. Americans always come back with the right to own a gun just incase they face an intruder in their home or an armed person anywhere else. This is of course "the dread of evil". Selah or go figure.

Truster, the Proverbs you quoted is about those who do NOT obey.

Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 09:29 AM
If your walk with Jesus is without producing fruit by following or obeying Jesus' word, you are building on sand.

There is no salvation without producing fruit.

Yes, I guess it's hard to grow fruit trees in the sand! Then again, coconut trees are often found on the beaches of deserted islands. Maybe it's not the sand that's a grow stopper? Perhaps it's just a case of the roots having to reach down far enough?

EDIT: Yeah, yeah. Seems to me a carpenter like Jesus would see it's not the sand that keeps one from building. It's how far one is willing to dig! Anyone can build on sand if she's willing to go deep enough to reach the solid ground beneath.

Not sure if there's any fruit for thought in that, but it might lead to an interesting discussion of discovery. :)

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Truster
April 14th, 2017, 09:38 AM
Yes, I guess it's hard to grow fruit trees in the sand! Then again, coconut trees are often found on the beaches of deserted islands. Maybe it's not the sand that's a grow stopper? Perhaps it's just a case of the roots having to reach down far enough?


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Fruit has to do with sanctification not conversion.

Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 09:39 AM
I asked the same question in regard to many, many words and often stress on here the importance of knowing what words actually mean. The problem is that if you haven't been regenerated you couldn't possibly comprehend what I state. It also opens the door for every idiot and his brother to start derailing the thread with imagined nonsense.

So to put my mind at rest, have you been saved, if so give a brief summary of the moment of your salvation.

My apologies. I sincerely don't mean to be difficult, but I'm experiencing the same confusion posed by your previous question. You see? The words *saved* and *salvation* hold different meanings for different people. So it's impossible for me to be sure what you're asking!

Perhaps this will help: Try asking the same question without using either the word saved or salvation. Perhaps then I'll see what you're asking me?


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Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 09:42 AM
Fruit has to do with sanctification not conversion.

Please define each word, or maybe just explain the difference between sanctification and conversion to me. :)


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Truster
April 14th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Please define each word, or maybe just explain the difference between sanctification and conversion to me. :)


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I'm going to PM you a link to something you might want to read. It will either enlighten you or bore you to death. Which that is out of my hands. Forgive my holding back, but I've been led a merry dance on here by people who come across as sincere, but...

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 10:45 AM
Fruit has to do with sanctification not conversion.

When one is saved, the person is at that time made righteous, sanctified and purified.

Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 11:07 AM
I'm going to PM you a link to something you might want to read. It will either enlighten you or bore you to death. Which that is out of my hands. Forgive my holding back, but I've been led a merry dance on here by people who come across as sincere, but...

Yeah, no. I don't believe the app I use supports private messages. But if you don't care to discuss, no worries. I'm not offended. :)


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Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 01:29 PM
When one is saved, the person is at that time made righteous, sanctified and purified.

Hi, God's Truth. Hope it's OK to ask. What is different about a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified?


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God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:41 PM
Hi, God's Truth. Hope it's OK to ask. What is different about a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified?


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Hi, thank you for asking.

There is no difference it is all the same.

We are made righteous, sanctified, and purified when we are saved.

Then we live our lives living up to that, living up to what we have received.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:48 PM
We are justified and made righteous by our faith in Jesus' blood making us clean:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

The faith in Jesus makes us righteous means that we are made righteous from what Jesus did for us. Jesus was faithful to the commands of His Father.
This proves faith alone is dead.

Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We have righteousness from God through faith in Jesus because we believe, see Romans 3:22.

We are righteous because we obey the perfect law see Romans 2:13.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

The righteous requirements of the law are fully met in me and all those saved, those who live according to the Spirit, See Romans 8:4.

The blood of Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:29); Jesus sanctifies us by the truth (John 17:17); Jesus sanctifies (Hebrews 2:11); We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus (Hebrews 10:10).

We are sanctified through the work of the Spirit TO BE OBEDIENT.

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

We are sanctified through the work of the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus.

We purify ourselves by believing in the truth, and by obeying the truth. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and 1 Peter 1:22.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.

God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 01:54 PM
We are made righteous, sanctified, justified, purified, and made holy all at the same time, and then we live our lives continuing to obey.

Christians are perfect and holy.

It seems there is a false humbleness in some who call themselves Christian, and they show this false humbleness when they protest being called a saint or holy. However what do the scriptures say?

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 02:11 PM
Hi, thank you for asking.

There is no difference it is all the same.

We are made righteous, sanctified, and purified when we are saved.

Then we live our lives living up to that, living up to what we have received.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying an unrighteous person is no different from a righteous one, and a sanctified person is the same as an unsanctified one, and a purified person is identical to an unpurified one?


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God's Truth
April 14th, 2017, 02:17 PM
Not sure I understand. Are you saying an unrighteous person is no different from a righteous one, and a sanctified person is the same as an unsanctified one, and a purified person is identical to an unpurified one?


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I have no idea how you got that from what I said. I want to speak more about this with you, but I have to go for now. I hope you will continue to talk about this with me.

Spockrates
April 14th, 2017, 02:29 PM
I have no idea how you got that from what I said. I want to speak more about this with you, but I have to go for now. I hope you will continue to talk about this with me.

LOL! Dude! Sorry for misunderstanding. :)

So when I asked, "What is different about a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified?" you replied, "There is no difference..."

It's logical to conclude that either you misunderstood my question or I misinterpreted your answer. No matter! Yes, please. let's continue our thoughtful conversation, later. :)


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God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 09:37 AM
LOL! Dude! Sorry for misunderstanding. :)

So when I asked, "What is different about a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified?" you replied, "There is no difference..."

It's logical to conclude that either you misunderstood my question or I misinterpreted your answer. No matter! Yes, please. let's continue our thoughtful conversation, later. :)


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Oh, now I see what you meant. ha
So then, the difference between a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified from ONE WHO IS NOT...is one person believed that Jesus' blood does clean him and wash away all the sins he has ever done, sins he repents of doing, and God Himself lives in the person who has done that.

I thought you meant what is the difference between being made righteous from being purified, and from being sanctified and justified.

Made righteous, purified, justified, and sanctified all happens the time one is saved.

Truster
April 15th, 2017, 09:48 AM
This message is hidden because God's Truth is on your ignore list.

I don't care what you've posted because it is tainted with the lies of your father.

God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 09:55 AM
This message is hidden because God's Truth is on your ignore list.

I don't care what you've posted because it is tainted with the lies of your father.

You do what Satan does, and that is to accuse the brethren. What else did Satan give you to defend his lies?

Why are you on a debate site if you do not debate?

Spockrates
April 15th, 2017, 01:20 PM
Oh, now I see what you meant. ha
So then, the difference between a person who is made righteous, sanctified and purified from ONE WHO IS NOT...is one person believed that Jesus' blood does clean him and wash away all the sins he has ever done, sins he repents of doing, and God Himself lives in the person who has done that.

I thought you meant what is the difference between being made righteous from being purified, and from being sanctified and justified.

Made righteous, purified, justified, and sanctified all happens the time one is saved.

Yes, sorry for being clear as mud! So is it fair to say you believe believing isn't sufficient to save? One must also, "repent of doing"? That is, am I correct in thinking you are saying both are necessary requirements of escaping God's punishment after death?


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God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 01:30 PM
Yes, sorry for being clear as mud! So is it fair to say you believe believing isn't sufficient to save? One must also, "repent of doing"? That is, am I correct in thinking you are saying both are necessary requirements of escaping God's punishment after death?


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That is right.
Jesus saves us all on his own, but he chooses whom he saves. Jesus tells us he chooses those who do what he says, he says to humble yourself and repent of your sins, and many other things.

Spockrates
April 15th, 2017, 02:07 PM
That is right.
Jesus saves us all on his own, but he chooses whom he saves. Jesus tells us he chooses those who do what he says, he says to humble yourself and repent of your sins, and many other things.

So is it correct to say you aren't one of those Christians who is fond of the phrase, "We are saved by grace alone through faith alone"?


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God's Truth
April 15th, 2017, 05:39 PM
So is it correct to say you aren't one of those Christians who is fond of the phrase, "We are saved by grace alone through faith alone"?


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That phrase comes from false teachers.

The only time faith alone is mentioned in the Bible is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

popsthebuilder
April 15th, 2017, 08:33 PM
This message is hidden because daqq is on your ignore list.

http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3733-Ignore-List-for-information-purposes-only

In case you wonder why I don't respond to anything you say it is probably because you have said things in the past that were heretical, vile, derogatory or simply rude. This might have been to me or to others. I then realised that there would be nothing that you have to say that I would want to hear. And that there would be nothing that I can say that you would be able to hear.
Have you noticed the things you direct towards others?



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Truster
April 16th, 2017, 03:05 AM
Those that have received precious trust and are walking in the narrow way ignore and avoid those who are in the broad way. The path to destruction adherents are always trying to entice us* by sweet talk or anger, by complement or attack. The more they see the impossibility of bringing us* over to their broad way the more annoyed they get.

Thank you one and all for confirming this point. I am abundantly blessed in the knowledge of the Sovereign Might and the Promise to keep us* from harm.

Us* the redeemed, regenerate, repentant sinners. amen, amen and amen.



PS I use the term "amen" in full knowledge of what it means.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 04:01 AM
Those that have received precious trust and are walking in the narrow way ignore and avoid those who are in the broad way. The path to destruction adherents are always trying to entice us* by sweet talk or anger, by complement or attack. The more they see the impossibility of bringing us* over to their broad way the more annoyed they get.

Thank you one and all for confirming this point. I am abundantly blessed in the knowledge of the Sovereign Might and the Promise to keep us* from harm.

Us* the redeemed, regenerate, repentant sinners. amen, amen and amen.



PS I use the term "amen" in full knowledge of what it means.

God bless you and may He take away your bitterness.


Love, in Christ.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 04:13 AM
God bless you and may He take away your bitterness.


Love, in Christ.

My hatred against the enemies of Messiah is sanctified. Your hypocrisy is not.


"Do I not hate those who hate You, O Yah Veh? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?"

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 05:08 AM
My hatred against the enemies of Messiah is sanctified. Your hypocrisy is not.

Your judgement does not harmonize with Jesus' Spirit.

Humility is a must in true Jesus' followers.

Arrogance is Jesus' enemy.

Peace in Christ.

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 05:19 AM
Your judgement does not harmonize with Jesus' Spirit.

Humility is a must in true Jesus' followers.

Arrogance is Jesus' enemy.

Peace in Christ.

Like many people you confuse arrogance with authority. That would be those that speak with the authority of the word. Humility does not include allowing people to speak lies and diminish truth in their statements. Did Paul lack humility when he confronted Peter. In you mind he would have.



"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins".

You would rewrite that as:

Cry softly and nicely, speak quietly incase anyone is offended or see the error of their ways... But then you backstab and issue despicable words. Your pretence at humility is an abomination in the face of Him with whom you will answer to.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 09:41 AM
Those that have received precious trust and are walking in the narrow way ignore and avoid those who are in the broad way. The path to destruction adherents are always trying to entice us* by sweet talk or anger, by complement or attack. The more they see the impossibility of bringing us* over to their broad way the more annoyed they get.

Thank you one and all for confirming this point. I am abundantly blessed in the knowledge of the Sovereign Might and the Promise to keep us* from harm.

Us* the redeemed, regenerate, repentant sinners. amen, amen and amen.



PS I use the term "amen" in full knowledge of what it means.

You are the one with the rough talk, the attacking and anger.

It is not sweet talk to encourage others in the Lord. Paul says he was refreshed in the Lord by some.

Was Paul merely sweet talking? No.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

2 Timothy 1:16 May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains.

1 Corinthians 16:18 For they refreshed my spirit and yours as well. Show your appreciation, therefore, to such men.

Philippians 2:29 So then, welcome him in the Lord with great joy, and honor people like him,

Truster
April 16th, 2017, 10:41 AM
You are the one with the rough talk, the attacking and anger.

It is not sweet talk to encourage others in the Lord. Paul says he was refreshed in the Lord by some.

Was Paul merely sweet talking? No.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

2 Timothy 1:16 May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains.

1 Corinthians 16:18 For they refreshed my spirit and yours as well. Show your appreciation, therefore, to such men.

Philippians 2:29 So then, welcome him in the Lord with great joy, and honor people like him,

I'm not trying to encourage you. You need no encouragement to evil as you have proven time and again.

meshak
April 16th, 2017, 11:24 AM
Like many people you confuse arrogance with authority.

Jesus is the authority. It is clear to me you have no idea what true Christianity it.

Love in Christ.

God's Truth
April 16th, 2017, 11:31 AM
I'm not trying to encourage you. You need no encouragement to evil as you have proven time and again.

You are trying to condemn me. That is what Satan does.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 03:56 AM
You are trying to condemn me. That is what Satan does.

Your own words condemn you.

..and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Says the scripture, says the Holy Spirit and says the Messiah. Threefold witness against you.

Spockrates
April 17th, 2017, 05:22 AM
That phrase comes from false teachers.

The only time faith alone is mentioned in the Bible is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

Thank you. So I'm wondering about this repentance that is required to escape judgement after death. Some tell me it's a change of mind, others explain that it's a change of behavior, and others say it's the same as faith. But what do you think?


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God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 08:49 AM
Thank you.
You are welcome.
The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.
Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James tells us faith alone cannot save a man. See James 2:14.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.

Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith.
The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. It is beyond absurd to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.




So I'm wondering about this repentance that is required to escape judgement after death. Some tell me it's a change of mind, others explain that it's a change of behavior, and others say it's the same as faith. But what do you think?

We have to repent of our sins.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 08:55 AM
Your own words condemn you.

..and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Says the scripture, says the Holy Spirit and says the Messiah. Threefold witness against you.

There is no scripture that says what you base your beliefs on. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God saves unbelievers.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:12 AM
Messiah said, "I have come to seek and to save that which is lost". By lost He didn't mean geographically, but atheist and in the world without hope, without trust and without the ability to repent=lost.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:19 AM
Messiah said, "I have come to seek and to save that which is lost". By lost He didn't mean geographically, but atheist and in the world without hope, without trust and without the ability to repent=lost.

That scripture is about Jesus coming to save the LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL. Those are the people who already belonged to God by faith with obedience.

They were God's, they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose any that God gave him. They were lost because they did not have a good shepherd to shepherd them.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:21 AM
That scripture is about Jesus coming to save the LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL. Those are the people who already belonged to God by faith with obedience.

They were God's, they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose any that God gave him.

You should read Romans 10.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:29 AM
You should read Romans 10.

I have read it. You should be repenting of everything you think you know.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:30 AM
I have read it. You should repenting of everything you think you know.

I have no doubt that you have read it, but you haven't understood a word.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:35 AM
I have no doubt that you have read it, but you haven't understood a word.

You have proven to not understand anything in the Bible.

Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:36 AM
You have proven to not understand anything in the Bible.

Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.


This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:44 AM
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Paul was not yet saved on that road to Damascus when he finally believed.

Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Paul spent this time praying. If you do not think that Paul spent this time begging for forgiveness and repenting, then you would be badly mistaken.

Acts 9:11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:47 AM
1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Belief or faith is a gift and it is provided and exercised during regeneration. Faith, belief or trust is proof of salvation and not the cause. You are obviously confused and there is nothing I can do about that.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:51 AM
Belief or faith is a gift and it is provided and exercised during regeneration. Faith, belief or trust is proof of salvation and not the cause. You are obviously confused and there is nothing I can do about that.

No one is regenerated before they believe and repent.

Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 12:12 PM
No one is regenerated before they believe and repent.

Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

Its in a complete thread straight through the entire Bible.

Spockrates
April 17th, 2017, 01:03 PM
Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith. ...

We have to repent of our sins.

Yeah, yeah. But I'm still wondering in what way we must repent.

For example, I saw a movie on Netflix, recently about Franciscan missionaries to feudal Japan. The story had a Japanese Christian who betrayed the missionaries again and again, but each time he returned and asked one of the missionaries to hear his confession and forgive him.

It seemed to me that the one betraying might have repented with his mind (acknowledging each time that his behavior was reprehensible) but likely never repented with his works (changing his behavior so as to stop committing the sin he asked to be forgiven for).

So I'd still like to know if you believe both methods of repentance are required to escape the eternal consequences for one's own wrong thinking and doing.


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Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:01 PM
Yeah, yeah. But I'm still wondering in what way we must repent.

For example, I saw a movie on Netflix, recently about Franciscan missionaries to feudal Japan. The story had a Japanese Christian who betrayed the missionaries again and again, but each time he returned and asked one of the missionaries to hear his confession and forgive him.

It seemed to me that the one betraying might have repented with his mind (acknowledging each time that his behavior was reprehensible) but likely never repented with his works (changing his behavior so as to stop committing the sin he asked to be forgiven for).

So I'd still like to know if you believe both methods of repentance are required to escape the eternal consequences for one's own wrong thinking and doing.


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Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".


"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.

popsthebuilder
April 17th, 2017, 09:10 PM
Your own words condemn you.

..and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Says the scripture, says the Holy Spirit and says the Messiah. Threefold witness against you.
That is just way of saying we are held accountable and the golden rule.

I did not mean to thank or thumbs up that remark.

You don't seem to have worked on that pride yet.

Maybe you might consider following the example if the Christ in reference to humility.

Just a friendly suggestion.

peace

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Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:36 PM
That is just way of saying we are held accountable and the golden rule.

I did not mean to thank or thumbs up that remark.

You don't seem to have worked on that pride yet.

Maybe you might consider following the example if the Christ in reference to humility.

Just a friendly suggestion.

peace

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You mistakenly call it pride when it is absolute trust in absolute truth. In doing so you call good evil and call light darkness. Your kind mocked Messiah on the tree.

Maybe you should stop spouting your nonsense before your foot slides.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:40 PM
You mistakenly call it pride when it is absolute trust in absolute truth. In doing so you call good evil and call light darkness. Your kind mocked Messiah on the tree.

Maybe you should stop spouting your nonsense before your foot slides.

You sure are full of yourself and prideful believing God chose you to be saved.

You say you are not a Calvinist, yet what you believe in this surely is Calvinism.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:45 PM
You sure are full of yourself and prideful believing God chose you to be saved.

You say you are not a Calvinist, yet what you believe in this surely is Calvinism.

Predetermination is taught throughout the scriptures. If I halal(glory) then I halal in the fact I comprehend and know my Maker and Saviour and in this I obey His command.

Jeremiah 9:24 KJV

Yet again you call good evil. If you knew and understood the scriptures you wouldn't speak such evil against obedience.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:46 PM
Predetermination is taught throughout the scriptures. If I halal(glory) then I halal in the fact I comprehend and know my Makes and Saviour and in this I obey His command.

Jeremiah 9:24 KJV

You misuse and twist the Scripture. That's what happens when you don't honor Jesus' teachings.

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 09:47 PM
Yeah, yeah. But I'm still wondering in what way we must repent.

For example, I saw a movie on Netflix, recently about Franciscan missionaries to feudal Japan. The story had a Japanese Christian who betrayed the missionaries again and again, but each time he returned and asked one of the missionaries to hear his confession and forgive him.

It seemed to me that the one betraying might have repented with his mind (acknowledging each time that his behavior was reprehensible) but likely never repented with his works (changing his behavior so as to stop committing the sin he asked to be forgiven for).

So I'd still like to know if you believe both methods of repentance are required to escape the eternal consequences for one's own wrong thinking and doing.


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I see what you mean. Does the person really want to obey and can't seem to do it? Jesus tells us how to stop sinning. We have to do what Jesus says. The Bible says to fear the Lord. We really have to fear God. The fear of God will help you stop sins. You will then see how you can take pleasure in the fear of the Lord. Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
In addition, you should hate what is evil. That is what the Bible says. Obey what the Word of God says. If you do not hate what is evil, think about it and keep hating it until you really hate it.
The Bible tells us many things to help us, we just have to do what he says.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:47 PM
You misuse and twist the Scripture. That's what happens when you don't honor Jesus' teachings.

You call good evil, again.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:48 PM
And this is reminder Truster, you are one of majority which is in the wide gate.

Your prideful attitude sure is majority thing too.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 09:49 PM
PS you always spout devilish opinion, but never use the scriptures. Or when you do use the scriptures it's for yet more devilish opinion.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:49 PM
You call good evil, again.


Your condemnations sure is majority thing.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:50 PM
PS you always spout devilish opinion, but never use the scriptures.

Jesus' word is not devilish opinion.

you don't have the facts strait.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 09:53 PM
You see Truster,

You have been condemning all super manority christians as cult and heretics. It is so popular thing to do in worldly churches.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 10:07 PM
You see Truster,

You have been condemning all super manority christians as cult and heretics. It is so popular thing to do in worldly churches.

The scriptures condemn then for the lies they teach. The idols they prefer and their hypocrisy. If ever the scriptures stop condemning them I'll stop pointing out the fact they are following blind guides into the pit of destruction.

I don't expect you to comprehend this, but my actions are acts of love. In the full knowledge that I will be despised and condemned I still warn people. Does that remind you of someone?

God's Truth
April 17th, 2017, 10:10 PM
The scriptures condemn then for the lies they teach. The idols they prefer and their hypocrisy. If ever the scriptures stop condemning them I'll stop pointing out the fact they are following blind guides into the pit of destruction.

I don't expect you to comprehend this, but my actions are acts of love. In the full knowledge that I will be despised and condemned I still warn people. Does that remind you of someone?

Give the scripture you base your beliefs on. Give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:13 PM
The scriptures condemn then for the lies they teach.

But you read with foggy eyes.

You don't know how to discern what is true or not.

You see, that's why Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

when are you going to apply Jesus' wisdom in your discernment?

You condemn those godly and fruitful Christians as cult and heretics.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 10:27 PM
But you read with foggy eyes.

You don't know how to discern what is true or not.

You see, that's why Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

when are you going to apply Jesus' wisdom in your discernment?

You condemn those godly and fruitful Christians as cult and heretics.

The term "godly" is a mistranslation. It should be translated as reverence or well venerated. But you and your cult will stay with the mistranslation, because they and you hate the truth. Any form of accuracy shows up their and your ignorance.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:30 PM
The term "godly" is a mistranslation. It should be translated as reverence or well venerated. But you and your cult will stay with the mistranslation, because they and you hate the truth. Any form of accuracy shows up their and your ignorance.

Your judgement is not reliable because your faith is not based on Jesus' teachings.

patrick jane
April 17th, 2017, 10:33 PM
You see Truster,

You have been condemning all super manority christians as cult and heretics. It is so popular thing to do in worldly churches.Low IQ meshak

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 10:33 PM
Your judgement is not reliable because your faith is not based on Jesus' teachings.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man".

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:37 PM
1 Corinthians 2:15

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man".

You are not spiritual because your faith is not based on Jesus' teachings.

Your condemnation or judgement is so easy to refute because you don't honor Jesus' teachings.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:38 PM
Low IQ meshak

:)

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 10:47 PM
You are not spiritual because your faith is not based on Jesus' teachings.

Your condemnation or judgement is so easy to refute because you don't honor Jesus' teachings.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Notice the last word.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 10:51 PM
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Notice the last word.

You have been judging unbiblically.

Besides, you abuse and misuse the scripture.

Like I said, your condemnation is meaningless because your faith is not based on what Jesus teaches.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 11:03 PM
You have been judging unbiblically.

Besides, you abuse and misuse the scripture.

Like I said, your condemnation is meaningless because your faith is not based on what Jesus teaches.

Its not "my" condemnation, although the just do judge the world and that includes hypocrites, the unrepentant sinners, blasphemers so that means, you.

meshak
April 17th, 2017, 11:11 PM
Its not "my" condemnation, although the just do judge the world and that includes hypocrites, the unrepentant sinners, blasphemers so that means, you.

Hypocrites are claiming to be a Christian yet disregard Jesus' teachings. And condemn all godly and faithful Christians.

Truster
April 17th, 2017, 11:26 PM
Hypocrites are claiming to be a Christian yet disregard Jesus' teachings. And condemn all godly and faithful Christians.

Satan does not war against Satan. Luke 11:18 KJV

Try thinking before typing.

popsthebuilder
April 18th, 2017, 04:58 AM
You mistakenly call it pride when it is absolute trust in absolute truth. In doing so you call good evil and call light darkness. Your kind mocked Messiah on the tree.

Maybe you should stop spouting your nonsense before your foot slides.
Who do you think you are? What makes you think you are not my equal? If you don't follow the example of the Christ, but only flap your jaws haughtily at at others then what good are you doing.

We are known by man by our works, not that they are to be done for the sight of man. Your works precede your false words which are a two edged sword. See what is cut asunder upon judgement. Learn what it is to be circumcised in spirit. If the Christ is the only teacher then what right have you to condemn others?

May GOD guide us both, for the sake of all and not for attainment of anything for self whatsoever.

My foot; it has slipped long ago. I teeter along the edge of the cliff, but by GOD's grace and mercy I breath another breath this day and look forward to my tests, trials, and afflictions with thanks and the hopes of patience and perseverance in GOD's word.

You really do not know what you are talking about with regards to me or others. Only prid and conciept would cause one to erroneously brand all as against the will of GOD all while they themselves condemn themselves with their own holier than thou mindset and words.

You should watch proclaiming to be a Christian.

peace friend

All praise and thanks is to GOD.



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popsthebuilder
April 18th, 2017, 05:02 AM
The scriptures condemn then for the lies they teach. The idols they prefer and their hypocrisy. If ever the scriptures stop condemning them I'll stop pointing out the fact they are following blind guides into the pit of destruction.

I don't expect you to comprehend this, but my actions are acts of love. In the full knowledge that I will be despised and condemned I still warn people. Does that remind you of someone?
Did you really say it is the small unorthodox of the faithful who lead and are lead astray?

Are you really that lost and confused?

Do you consider yourself to be a member of a particular denomination? If so, which?

peace





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meshak
April 18th, 2017, 12:12 PM
Satan does not war against Satan. Luke 11:18 KJV

Try thinking before typing.

You are so confused.

You need to know Jesus, friend.

Truster
April 18th, 2017, 12:21 PM
You are so confused.

You need to know Jesus, friend.

Change the record.

Truster
April 18th, 2017, 12:22 PM
Did you really say it is the small unorthodox of the faithful who lead and are lead astray?

Are you really that lost and confused?

Do you consider yourself to be a member of a particular denomination? If so, which?

peace





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No.

meshak
April 18th, 2017, 12:22 PM
Change the record.

You are still confused.

Truster
April 18th, 2017, 12:24 PM
Did you really say it is the small unorthodox of the faithful who lead and are lead astray?

Are you really that lost and confused?

Do you consider yourself to be a member of a particular denomination? If so, which?

peace





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Yes,No & no.

popsthebuilder
April 18th, 2017, 12:55 PM
Yes,No & no.
I'm sorry, but if you answered yes to the first then the other two are rhetorical.

peace

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Spockrates
April 18th, 2017, 01:33 PM
I see what you mean. Does the person really want to obey and can't seem to do it? Jesus tells us how to stop sinning. We have to do what Jesus says. The Bible says to fear the Lord. We really have to fear God. The fear of God will help you stop sins. You will then see how you can take pleasure in the fear of the Lord. Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
In addition, you should hate what is evil. That is what the Bible says. Obey what the Word of God says. If you do not hate what is evil, think about it and keep hating it until you really hate it.
The Bible tells us many things to help us, we just have to do what he says.

Thank you. Are you speaking of hate and fear as emotions, or as something else?


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God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 01:58 PM
Thank you. Are you speaking of hate and fear as emotions, or as something else?


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Fear and hate are emotions. What else would you like me to consider them being? I am interested in what you think about it.

Spockrates
April 18th, 2017, 04:07 PM
Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".


"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.
Truster: Thank you. You have said what repentance *does* but I'm still wondering what repentance *is*. This is not the same, I think.

For example, let's say I asked, "What is clay?" and you answered, "It's the stuff statues are made of, or the stuff floor tiles are made of, or the stuff flower pots are made out of. In such case I believe I'd be right to say, "You've told me several things I can do with clay, but you haven't at all told me what clay is!"

But if you replied, "Clay is a kind of moistened earth," then I believe you would have answered my question.

So let me ask you to do the same with repentance. Instead of telling me what it does (produces godly sorrow) please tell me what it is.




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Truster
April 18th, 2017, 09:03 PM
Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. Repentance and by default the ability to repent is not inherent in man. It cannot be apprehended by learning nor by religious experience. The gift of repentance is received upon regeneration. It is not of the soul and therefore not an emotion, although it does generate reverent sorrow.

Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. There is no room for doubt in that first, penetrating beam of spiritual light, and the repentant sinner knows things and can see things clearly for the very first time.

Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. The gift of trust and repentance received at one and the same time, is the most exhilarating experience and a man will always remember where he was and when the eyes of his understanding were first opened. He is suddenly a new man and he knows for an absolute fact he will never be the same again. In the weeks, months and years following there will be more times of repentance. The experience does not diminish and can only be described as extreme blessing. You begin to realise, on each and every occasion, you have been granted repentance that you have changed inside and have a certain knowledge you’ll never be the same again. The inner man is being renewed day, by day. I used to describe the experience like climbing a mountain. The struggle to reach what seems like the top only to discover another top. You reach a plateau of rest and pleasant walking where you enjoy the views, before taking on, or rather, being taken to new heights. Just as climbing is exhausting in the physical sense repentance is spiritually exhausting, because each time a part of the “old self” dies before being replaced with another mentality.

In his natural, fallen state, man has a viewpoint that is clouded by and with sin. In his regenerate state all things are become new and the eyes of the understanding or the mind are part of that renewal. Repentance is “another mentality”. There was an old, natural mentality, that we inherit from Adam and there is the new mentality that we inherit from the Last Adam and our Eternal Saviour.
This lines up with “But we have the mind of Messiah”. 1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Romans 12:2
The latter verse confirms that repentance once received is ongoing. Justification is an event that happens once, is complete, cannot be added to and is final, eternal and blessed. Amen. Repentance is the power behind sanctification and we are always being sanctified. Justification is permanent. Sanctification is by degree and therefore repentance, once received, is ongoing.
A man cannot pray for repentance, but a repentant man will pray in spirit. A man does not repent to be re-born again from above. A man repents, because he has been born again from above.
In the first creation Elohim said, “let there be Light and Light became”. In the new creation Elohim says, “Let there be Light and the man is inwardly enlightened” not from power within, but from Almighty Power without, enlightening the inner man.


Repentance is finding the strait gate. Passing through the gate is repentance being applied to the Sovereignty of Elohim. Walking the narrow way is a life of repentance in which the comforts and enjoyments of what the world has to offer are slowly, but surely recognised for their sinfulness and discarded. You are actually called "narrow minded" and there is no greater blessing and amen.

Natural man will despise this truth, but the renewed man will embrace it, because he’ll recognise the experience. When I was converted I wanted everybody I knew and those I didn’t know. To have what I have, to know what I know, to love how I love and to fellowship in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with me. It was not the case and as my signature states, “I have since been further confirmed in this truth, because it was revealed to me who never sought it and never expected it and is withheld from thousands who are working hard to get it”.

To the praise of the glory of His grace and many blessings, H.

popsthebuilder
April 18th, 2017, 09:46 PM
So the shame doesn't cause the repentance to you?

This is not an attack or sarcasm. It is sincere friend.

peace

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Truster
April 18th, 2017, 10:11 PM
So the shame doesn't cause the repentance to you?

This is not an attack or sarcasm. It is sincere friend.

peace

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The preaching of the law will work shame in a man and sorrow, being exposed to light will do the same, but the shame and sorrow are emotional and short lived. Repentance works lasting change. Growing in grace and in the knowledge of Elohim.

The Hebrews were susceptible to tears of sorrow and then they'd go back to their idols.

God's Truth
April 18th, 2017, 11:25 PM
The preaching of the law will work shame in a man and sorrow, being exposed to light will do the same, but the shame and sorrow are emotional and short lived. Repentance works lasting change. Growing in grace and in the knowledge of Elohim.

The Hebrews were susceptible to tears of sorrow and then they'd go back to their idols.

Don't you see anything perverse in how you try to change so many words in the Bible? You say 'believe' is not 'believe' but rather 'trust'. The Bible says to 'repent' of our sins, but you say no 'repent' is doing right. You change the meaning of words in the Bible and you misunderstand every scripture that you talk about. You cannot even find a scripture that says God saves us while we do not believe. You cannot even find a scripture that says we cannot believe in God after learning about Him. You cannot find those scriptures because they do not exist. You go against everything that God says. You condemn just about everyone you discuss with, just as Satan would have you do. You put down obeying God, as if to obey is shameful. You are in a very bad place.

Truster
April 19th, 2017, 02:00 AM
Don't you see anything perverse in how you try to change so many words in the Bible? You say 'believe' is not 'believe' but rather 'trust'. The Bible says to 'repent' of our sins, but you say no 'repent' is doing right. You change the meaning of words in the Bible and you misunderstand every scripture that you talk about. You cannot even find a scripture that says God saves us while we do not believe. You cannot even find a scripture that says we cannot believe in God after learning about Him. You cannot find those scriptures because they do not exist. You go against everything that God says. You condemn just about everyone you discuss with, just as Satan would have you do. You put down obeying God, as if to obey is shameful. You are in a very bad place.

You are nothing, but a fraud who has tantrums in the face of truth.

God's Truth
April 19th, 2017, 02:06 AM
You are nothing, but a fraud who has tantrums in the face of truth.

You are a false witness. Your false accusations about me sound exactly like what you are and do.

I prove all my beliefs with scripture. You cannot prove yours.

Truster
April 19th, 2017, 02:24 AM
You are a false witness. Your false accusations about me sound exactly like what you are and do.

I prove all my beliefs with scripture. You cannot prove yours.


"For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 05:52 AM
You didn't really answer me.

Repent is to turn from a thing....To stop doing it.

But you say repentance worketh shame instead of the other way around.

How would one stop a thing and then regret it or feel shame over it.

That just doesn't make sense to me. Did I read you wrong?

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Truster
April 19th, 2017, 05:55 AM
You didn't really answer me.

Repent is to turn from a thing....To stop doing it.

But you say repentance worketh shame instead of the other way around.

How would one stop a thing and then regret it or feel shame over it.

That just doesn't make sense to me. Did I read you wrong?

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Repent is not to turn. That is conversion. To turn 180 degrees and move in the opposite direction.

PS In conversion the sinner is passive. The sinner is turned 180 degrees and finds himself travelling in the opposite direction to where he was travelling. Those who know him find this very difficult or rather impossible to bare.

Truster
April 19th, 2017, 06:02 AM
PPS if you don't recognise the doctrine then you have neither been converted nor granted repentance.

You have a form of reverence, but deny the power therein.2 Timothy 3:5

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 06:03 AM
Repent is not to turn. That is conversion. To turn 180 degrees and move in the opposite direction.

PS In conversion the sinner is passive. The sinner is turned 180 degrees and finds himself travelling in the opposite direction to where he was travelling. Those who know him find this very difficult or rather impossible to bare.
Could you show with scripture that to repent means not to turn from or to stop, but whatever it is you day it means....Thank you. You still have yet to address my questions though.

peace

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Truster
April 19th, 2017, 06:13 AM
Could you show with scripture that to repent means not to turn from or to stop, but whatever it is you day it means....Thank you. You still have yet to address my questions though.

peace

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I have no intention of answering your question. You should search the scriptures to see if what I have said is true. The onus of responsibility is yours not mine. I have provided you with the truth and you have not recognised it.

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 07:23 AM
I have no intention of answering your question. You should search the scriptures to see if what I have said is true. The onus of responsibility is yours not mine. I have provided you with the truth and you have not recognised it.
Why respond at all if you don't intend to answer the questions posed?

You know not what truths have been revealed to me or what lessons I have learned or what affliction I have endured and will endure.

I don't need your answers friend. The questions are to know if you indeed are of the truth. Which you are not based on the culmination of your posts.

Why would you not look to help even one you perceive in your vanity as an enemy?

May our GOD guide us both friend; for the sake of creation and not our own attainment or reward or recognition.


peace

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Truster
April 19th, 2017, 10:59 AM
Why respond at all if you don't intend to answer the questions posed?

You know not what truths have been revealed to me or what lessons I have learned or what affliction I have endured and will endure.

I don't need your answers friend. The questions are to know if you indeed are of the truth. Which you are not based on the culmination of your posts.

Why would you not look to help even one you perceive in your vanity as an enemy?

May our GOD guide us both friend; for the sake of creation and not our own attainment or reward or recognition.


peace

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I was answering Spock and doing so because he is of a different spirit to you. You could never understand what doctrines the scriptures hold, because don't have the anointing to teach you. You expect me to jump at your beck and call when you have a Bible and time on your hands. If the Eternal Almighty wanted you to comprehend then He would have granted you comprehension.

God's Truth
April 19th, 2017, 11:04 AM
"For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."

It is exactly what you are.

Truster
April 19th, 2017, 12:08 PM
It is exactly what you are.

You are nothing more than a poor, deluded, self justifying, heretic.

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 12:25 PM
I was answering Spock and doing so because he is of a different spirit to you. You could never understand what doctrines the scriptures hold, because don't have the anointing to teach you. You expect me to jump at your beck and call when you have a Bible and time on your hands. If the Eternal Almighty wanted you to comprehend then He would have granted you comprehension.
You poor soul. You really know not what you speak and are nothing but an assuming proud accuser.

peace

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popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 12:28 PM
Whoever might think this "truster" individual is sincere or good or right or on the narrow path or a follower of the example of Christ is being fooled. Please; for your own sake; take their words with a grain of salt.

May GOD guide us all.

Humbly,

peace

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Truster
April 19th, 2017, 12:30 PM
You poor soul. You really know not what you speak and are nothing but an assuming proud accuser.

peace

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I know exactly what I'm saying and I know who it is I'm addressing. It's obvious to me that you have attacked the saints before. You are the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing and I recognised that in your first post. I was just waiting for the accusations and I didn't have to wait very long.

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 12:39 PM
I know exactly what I'm saying and I know who it is I'm addressing. It's obvious to me that you have attacked the saints before. You are the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing and I recognised that in your first post. I was just waiting for the accusations and I didn't have to wait very long.
Nonsense. You evade simple direct questions all while proudly accusing one who has repeatedly attempted to reconsile some level of civil communication.

I asked you a question about how or why you consider the word repent to not mean turn from or stop, leaving your own accusations about me in another thread at the door. I asked because I don't vainly consider myself saved though I have indeed, without any doubt whatsoever been blessed with faith in GOD through the will of GOD.

But instead of guiding the lost sheep( that you accuse me of being, among much worse things), you rather flatly condemn them in your vanity, as if that is the command.

Stop wasting your time speaking to me.

If you ever have some change within, and learn to do, not for want, then speak to me, and perhaps we can grow together as branches on the vine that is the Christ. Until then; may GOD mercifully guide you , and straighten and strengthen us both.

Peace friend, sincerely

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Truster
April 19th, 2017, 01:38 PM
Nonsense. You evade simple direct questions all while proudly accusing one who has repeatedly attempted to reconsile some level of civil communication.

I asked you a question about how or why you consider the word repent to not mean turn from or stop, leaving your own accusations about me in another thread at the door. I asked because I don't vainly consider myself saved though I have indeed, without any doubt whatsoever been blessed with faith in GOD through the will of GOD.

But instead of guiding the lost sheep( that you accuse me of being, among much worse things), you rather flatly condemn them in your vanity, as if that is the command.

Stop wasting your time speaking from me.

If you ever have some change within, and learn to do, not for want, then speak to me, and perhaps we can grow together as branches on the vine that is the Christ. Until then; may GOD mercifully guide you , and straighten and strengthen us both.

Peace friend, sincerely

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I wouldn't dream of calling you brother so stop your nonsense.

popsthebuilder
April 19th, 2017, 06:52 PM
I wouldn't dream of calling you brother so stop your nonsense.
Frankly I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. As I said before; wait and see, I wait with you. May the Lord our GOD allow me to be made your footstool towards the glory of GOD. May GOD guide us all towards what we were created for, that our lives be not in vain.

I will gladly be the least here on earth and in the hereafter if that be the will of GOD for the sake of creation.

peace friend

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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 02:08 AM
Frankly I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. As I said before; wait and see, I wait with you. May the Lord our GOD allow me to be made your footstool towards the glory of GOD. May GOD guide us all towards what we were created for, that our lives be not in vain.

I will gladly be the least here on earth and in the hereafter if that be the will of GOD for the sake of creation.

peace friend

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I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 11:10 AM
I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

Believing and obeying God does not make one an atheist.

God does not condemn those who obey Him.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 11:34 AM
This message is hidden because God's Truth/Dorothea Binz is on your ignore list.


Slander is a spoken device and libel a written device. In either case the onus of responsibility is for the plaintiff to prove they did not act in a manner they are accused of doing. Because I am UK based any action would need to be pursued in the UK High Court and on failure the plaintiff would pay all costs and my expenses.

I happen to work in legal services. I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 12:40 PM
Repentance and by default the ability to repent is not inherent in man.It is inherent in man or else man could not change direction or change his mind.
Matthew 21:29

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 12:52 PM
It is inherent in man or else man could not change direction or change his mind.
Matthew 21:29

Repentance is not a change in direction that is conversion. Repentance is not a change of mind.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 01:09 PM
Repentance is not a change in direction that is conversion. Repentance is not a change of mind.The way the word is used in scripture is what determines it's meaning in scripture.

Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.





GOD converted????
Think.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 01:17 PM
The way the word is used in scripture is what determines it's meaning in scripture.

Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.





GOD converted????
Think.

You really need help with understanding, but that is an impossibility, because you know it all.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 01:19 PM
The way the word is used in scripture is what determines it's meaning in scripture.

Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.





GOD converted????
Think.

...repent of good...repent of bad.

We have to repent of our sins.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 01:21 PM
What the eyes don't see the heart can't grieve over.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 01:26 PM
You really need help with understanding, but that is an impossibility, because you know it all.Your understanding contradicts scripture.


Repentance is not a change in direction that is conversion. Repentance is not a change of mind.

Jonah 3:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jonah%203.10)
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer%2018.10)
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.


Sooooo, ....... GOD coverted?????
Fess up.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 01:35 PM
Your understanding contradicts scripture.



Jonah 3:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jonah%203.10)
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer%2018.10)
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.


Sooooo, ....... GOD coverted?????
Fess up.


I could go into detail and bring out light from these scriptures, but I despise the spirit by which you enquire. It's the same spirit that worked in scribes and pharisees when they questioned Messiah. He didn't bother giving them an answer either...

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 01:38 PM
Fear and hate are emotions. What else would you like me to consider them being? I am interested in what you think about it.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I think that I don't know, but I know that I do wonder, that wonder is the feeling of a purser of truth, and the pursuit of truth begins with wonder.

What I wonder is how fear can give me courage. For what I seem to lack is the courage to do what is right. Temptation approaches me, beckoning me to lie with her. I fear her, or rather the thought of not embracing her. She desires my embrace and I hers. The thought of doing without her strikes fear in my heart. I don't know how I can survive without her! What I need is the courage to stay away.

Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear. A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"

So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.


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Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 01:55 PM
I could go into detail and bring out light from these scriptures, but I despise the spirit by which you enquire. It's the same spirit that worked in scribes and pharisees when they questioned Messiah. He didn't bother giving them an answer either...I know why you won't answer, and it has nothing to do with my spirit. It is because you got yourself caught in a contradiction, and you know answering the question will expose your contradiction of the scriptural meaning of "repent".
Are you here for truth, or are you here just to do your amateur analysis of internet personalities?
(((Pssst ..... You can do both, you know. One doesn't have to exclude the other.)))


Think about the truth of it, and not your personal "feelings".
GOD repented, several times.
So, GOD converted several times?

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 01:56 PM
What the eyes don't see the heart can't grieve over.

Sounds like you are promoting blindness.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 01:58 PM
I know why you won't answer, and it has nothing to do with my spirit. It is because you got yourself caught in a contradiction, and you know answering the question will expose your contradiction of the scriptural meaning of "repent".
Are you here for truth, or are you here just to do your amateur analysis of internet personalities?
(((Pssst ..... You can do both, you know. One doesn't have to exclude the other.)))


Think about the truth of it, and not your personal "feelings".
GOD repented, several times.
So, GOD converted several times?


Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".


"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.


Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. Repentance and by default the ability to repent is not inherent in man. It cannot be apprehended by learning nor by religious experience. The gift of repentance is received upon regeneration. It is not of the soul and therefore not an emotion, although it does generate reverent sorrow.
Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. There is no room for doubt in that first, penetrating beam of spiritual light, and the repentant sinner knows things and can see things clearly for the very first time. Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. The gift of trust and repentance received at one and the same time, is the most exhilarating experience and a man will always remember where he was and when the eyes of his understanding were first opened. He is suddenly a new man and he knows for an absolute fact he will never be the same again. In the weeks months and years following there will be more times of repentance. The experience does not diminish and can only be described as extreme blessing. You begin to realise, on each and every occasion, you have been granted repentance that you have changed inside and have a certain knowledge you’ll never be the same again. The inner man is being renewed day, by day. I used to describe the experience like climbing a mountain. The struggle to reach what seems like the top only to discover another top. You reach a plateau of rest and pleasant walking where you enjoy the views, before taking on, or rather, being taken to new heights. Just as climbing is exhausting in the physical sense repentance is spiritually exhausting, because each time a part of the “old self” dies before being replaced with another mentality.

In his natural, fallen state, man has a viewpoint that is clouded by and with sin. In his regenerate state all things are become new and the eyes of the understanding or the mind are part of that renewal. Repentance is “another mentality”. There was an old, natural mentality, that we inherit from Adam and there is the new mentality that we inherit from the Last Adam and our Eternal Saviour.
This lines up with “But we have the mind of Messiah”. 1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Romans 12:2
The latter verse confirms that repentance once received is ongoing. Justification is an event that happens once, is complete, cannot be added to and is final, eternal and blessed. Amen. Repentance is the power behind sanctification and we are always being sanctified. Justification is permanent. Sanctification is by degree and therefore repentance, once received, is ongoing.
A man cannot pray for repentance, but a repentant man will pray in spirit. A man does not repent to be re-born again from above. A man repents, because he has been born again from above.
In the first creation Elohim said, “let there be Light and Light became”. In the new creation Elohim says, “Let there be Light and the man is inwardly enlightened” not from power within, but from Almighty Power without, enlightening the inner man.


Repentance is finding the strait gate. Passing through the gate is repentance being applied to the Sovereignty of Elohim. Walking the narrow way is a life of repentance in which the comforts and enjoyments of what the world has to offer are slowly, but surely recognised for their sinfulness and discarded. You are actually called "narrow minded" and there is no greater blessing and amen.

Natural man will despise this truth, but the renewed man will embrace it, because he’ll recognise the experience. When I was converted I wanted everybody I knew and those I didn’t know. To have what I have, to know what I know, to love how I love and to fellowship in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with me. It was not the case and as my signature states, “I have since been further confirmed in this truth, because it was revealed to me who never sought it and never expected it and is withheld from thousands who are working hard to get it”.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 01:59 PM
Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".

"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.

A more modern translation uses more familiar words to me:

2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow causes repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow causes death."

I'm thinking you're right. Godly sorrow is a cause of repentance, and it's logical to me that the thing caused cannot be the same as that which causes it. For an effect is never the same as its cause. So the effect we call repentance cannot possibly be the same as its cause, which we call godly sorrow.

Since repentance isn't godly sorrow, what then is it?


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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 02:04 PM
Elohim repented is a term used by the Holy Spirit to accommodate the limited capacity of man. Elohim is said to have a face and an arm and we know for a fact Elohim is Spirit and not matter. These devices make it easier to communicate ideas to man, but taking them literally as you have is plain dumb in the light of scripture. I AM YAH VEH I CHANGE NOT and you suggest He changes His mind? Who is this mind changing wimp you worship? It is certainly not the Eternal Almighty.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 02:06 PM
A more modern translation uses more familiar words to me:

2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow causes repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow causes death."

I'm thinking you're right. Godly sorrow is a cause of repentance, and it's logical to me that the thing caused cannot be the same as that which causes it. For an effect is never the same as its cause. So the effect we call repentance cannot possibly be the same as its cause, which we call godly sorrow.

Since repentance isn't godly sorrow, what then is it?


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Read post 144 they are two separate posts I used to answer your questions.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 02:06 PM
Repentance does not mean sorry. Save it. I didn't say it did.


GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?

Hearken.

Proverbs 12:15 KJV
(15) The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 02:13 PM
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Thank you for replying back.



I think that I don't know, but I know that I do wonder, that wonder is the feeling of a purser of truth, and the pursuit of truth begins with wonder.
That is right, we have to desire to know the Truth.



What I wonder is how fear can give me courage.
Well, I didn’t say fear would give you courage. I said fear in God can help you get sin out of your life. If a person really does fear God, they will give up the sins that they are doing; they will see the delight in the fear of God when they see how they stopped their sins.



For what I seem to lack is the courage to do what is right. Temptation approaches me, beckoning me to lie with her. I fear her, or rather the thought of not embracing her. She desires my embrace and I hers. The thought of doing without her strikes fear in my heart. I don't know how I can survive without her! What I need is the courage to stay away.
You have to fear God more than you fear giving up that which is against God.
You have to trust God by doing what He says and He says you will be blessed by it. You will not know how great the blessing is until you actually start doing what He says. God sys to hate what is evil. Let’s say right now that you love what is evil. You will have to obey God and say you hate it, until you actually do hate it. Learn to hate everything about it. Once you do what God says by hating evil, you will be blessed with more understanding.




Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear. A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"
The Bible does not contradict. There are many scriptures that say to fear God. You just do not understand what is being said in that scripture. The people were afraid because Moses was dead and Joshua was reassuring them that they would be okay.




So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.
What I say is true because it is exactly what the Bible says. You can find out if what the Bible says is true. Jesus explains to us that if someone does not know if what he says is true, then all they have to do is to do what he says then they will know. Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey him. You will have to believe what He says and not lean to the left or to the right, and do not add or take away. See, you already want to change the words about fearing God to having confidence in Him. Just believe what is written and do what He says, and you will be blessed beyond what you have ever imagined.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 02:18 PM
Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. ...

Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ...

Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. ..€ť.

Are you saying repentance is wisdom?


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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 02:20 PM
Are you saying repentance is wisdom?


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No.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 02:21 PM
Elohim repented is a term used by the Holy Spirit to accommodate the limited capacity of man. It's the term used in scripture because that is what happened.


Who is this mind changing wimp you worship? It is certainly not the Eternal Almighty.Yes it is.
You can call Him a wimp if you wish; won't change the fact that GOD repented several times.


Jonah 3:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jonah%203.10)
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jeremiah 18:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer%2018.10)
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?????
:Popcorn:


Here, let me help you out.


The answer is "no", GOD did not convert several times.
GOD repented several times.




You're welcome.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 02:27 PM
Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear.

Again, I did not say you do not need courage. You definitely need fear of God.



A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"

So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.


You are badly mistaken if you think I say things that the Bible doesn't say.
You misunderstand what Joshua was saying.
I have scriptures that I want to post for you so that you will see that I say what the Bible says.
We have to have fear and trembling to be saved.
]2 Corinthians 7:17 And his affection for you is all the greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with fear and trembling. 1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. Acts 10:35 but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 13:26 “Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 2 Corinthians 5:11 [ The Ministry of Reconciliation ] Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. Philippians 2:12 [ Shining as Stars ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Luke 1
for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 23:40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? Acts 5:11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events. Acts 10:2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. Romans 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. 1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
Revelation 14:7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” Revelation 15:4 Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
Revelation 19:5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both small and great!” Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 02:29 PM
Thank you for replying back.


That is right, we have to desire to know the Truth.


Well, I didn’t say fear would give you courage. I said fear in God can help you get sin out of your life. If a person really does fear God, they will give up the sins that they are doing; they will see the delight in the fear of God when they see how they stopped their sins.


You have to fear God more than you fear giving up that which is against God.
You have to trust God by doing what He says and He says you will be blessed by it. You will not know how great the blessing is until you actually start doing what He says. God sys to hate what is evil. Let’s say right now that you love what is evil. You will have to obey God and say you hate it, until you actually do hate it. Learn to hate everything about it. Once you do what God says by hating evil, you will be blessed with more understanding.


The Bible does not contradict. There are many scriptures that say to fear God. You just do not understand what is being said in that scripture. The people were afraid because Moses was dead and Joshua was reassuring them that they would be okay.


What I say is true because it is exactly what the Bible says. You can find out if what the Bible says is true. Jesus explains to us that if someone does not know if what he says is true, then all they have to do is to do what he says then they will know. Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey him. You will have to believe what He says and not lean to the left or to the right, and do not add or take away. See, you already want to change the words about fearing God to having confidence in Him. Just believe what is written and do what He says, and you will be blessed beyond what you have ever imagined.

Thank you for your frank reply. Yes, I can see what you say is true, for the Bible also tells me:

Psalm 111:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... ."

So yes, wisdom begins with fear, but does it end there?


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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 02:30 PM
It's the term used in scripture because that is what happened.

Yes it is.
You can call Him a wimp if you wish; won't change the fact that GOD repented several times.


Jonah 3:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jonah%203.10)
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jeremiah 18:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer%2018.10)
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?????
:Popcorn:


Here, let me help you out.


The answer is "no", GOD did not convert several times.
GOD repented several times.




You're welcome.



There is none so blind who think they can see.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 02:33 PM
Thank you for your frank reply. Yes, I can see what you say is true, for the Bible also tells me:

Psalm 111:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... ."

So yes, wisdom begins with fear, but does it end there?


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Fearing God will help you not to sin.

You will know Jesus if you obey and you will have love as you have never known before.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 02:41 PM
Fearing God will help you not to sin.

You will know Jesus if you obey and you will have love as you have never known before.

Are you saying fear is the beginning of wisdom and love is its end?

EDIT: Yes, I think this must be your meaning, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.
:)


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Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 02:46 PM
There is none so blind who think they can see.Then open your eyes and let not your heart be hardened.


Jonah 3:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jonah%203.10)
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV (https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer%2018.10)
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 02:56 PM
No.

Sorry for being slow to comprehend. It seems to me these words of yours define godly wisdom:

"Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

For when I replace the word repentance with the word wisdom, it sounds wise to me!

"[Godly wisdom] is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

But please tell me why you disagree. How do you define godly wisdom?


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 03:05 PM
Are you saying fear is the beginning of wisdom and love is its end?

EDIT: Yes, I think this must be your meaning, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.
:)


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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 03:07 PM
May I say something here?

Please do! :)


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 03:11 PM
Please do! :)


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Love is on going. we never stop loving. Actually love grows. If we are not growing in love, something is very wrong.

It is safe to say if we are not growing we stopped loving and going the other way. We never stay the same.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 03:14 PM
Are you saying fear is the beginning of wisdom and love is its end?

EDIT: Yes, I think this must be your meaning, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.
:)


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I think you got it.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 03:20 PM
Love is on going. we never stop loving. Actually love grows. If we are not growing in love, something is very wrong.

It is safe to say if we are not growing we stopped loving and going the other way. We never stay the same.

Yeah, yeah. Like Heraclitus said: "You cannot step into the same river twice, for when you do, both you and the river have changed!"

I think, though love is more like the tide on a beach. It ebbs and flows. Is your experience the same?


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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 03:24 PM
I think you got it.

Yeah, yeah, and it makes me wonder: Can love coexist with fear? Though my relationship might begin that way, is that the way it must stay?


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 03:25 PM
I think, though love is more like the tide on a beach. It ebbs and flows.

I think you expressed better than me.:)

thank you.

Tambora
April 20th, 2017, 03:48 PM
Can love coexist with fear? I believe so. (But may depend on how strict one is with the word "fear".)

For example:
When my husband held me in his arms, I was both, terrified knowing that those very arms could break me into like a twig, and yet I felt completely safe knowing that those very same arms were the ones that would protect me, keep me, sooth me, and care for me.

I vision GOD in like manner ----- terrified of the awesome power He has, yet completely secure in that same power as the very strength that will protect me from harm, provide for me, care for me.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 03:49 PM
Yeah, yeah, and it makes me wonder: Can love coexist with fear? Though my relationship might begin that way, is that the way it must stay?


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We are talking about the fear of God, not about fear of just anything. You should fear if you do wrong, if you are being tempted. What do you have to fear if you are not doing wrong?

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 03:50 PM
Sorry for being slow to comprehend. It seems to me these words of yours define godly wisdom:

"Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

For when I replace the word repentance with the word wisdom, it sounds wise to me!

"[Godly wisdom] is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

But please tell me why you disagree. How do you define godly wisdom?


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I don't disagree the scriptures and the meaning of words disagree. Wisdom is a gift and the regenerate, repentant sinners can ask for wisdom. James 1:5

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 03:57 PM
I think you expressed better than me.:)

thank you.

:)


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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:00 PM
We are talking about the fear of God, not about fear of just anything. You should fear if you do wrong, if you are being tempted. What do you have to fear if you are not doing wrong?

Yes, we are talking about the fear of God. But I fear the fear you don't have to fear is not the fear I fear! Let me explain...

So there's a show I watch called Black Sails. In the show a pirate captain named Flint has an insightful conversation with his first mate Silver about the subject of fear. Silver informs the captain he sent a pirate he recently disciplined on a vital mission.

"Why the @$&# did you entrust him?" Flint asked in disbelief. "Do you honestly think his fear of you makes him trustworthy?"

"Yes, I trust his fear," replied Silver, "but it's not the fear you think. It's not me he fears, it's the thought of disappointing me. Now that is a fear I trust!"

Do you think, then, that the fear of the Lord is not a fear of God's punishment, but a fear of disappointing him?

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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 04:02 PM
Perfect love drives out fear.

1 John 4:18

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:06 PM
Perfect love drives out fear.

1 John 4:18

Perfect love is obedience. If you are obeying then what are you fearing?

We do not love purely, sincerely, deeply from the heart until after we obey Jesus’ teachings. We do not know how to really love, until we love like Jesus loved us, and that comes from obeying him and believing in him. We love better after the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit which comes through our obeying.

See 1 Peter 1:22; John 13:34; Romans 12:10; James 4:8; Hebrews 13:1; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 3:8; 1 Peter 4:8;

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 04:06 PM
PS Perfect love drives out the fear in which there is torment, but there is also a reverent fear that is considered by those that have had the experience to be a grace and therefore a gift. To this I say, amen.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:11 PM
Perfect love drives out fear.

1 John 4:18

Then why do I fear letting him down? Perhaps because the fear of disappointing Him is not the kind of fear His love drives away?


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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:14 PM
I don't disagree the scriptures and the meaning of words disagree. Wisdom is a gift and the regenerate, repentant sinners can ask for wisdom. James 1:5

Yeah, yeah! And isn't praying that the eyes of my understanding be opened the same as praying for wisdom? I once was blind, but now I see. Isn't that sight wisdom?

So I wonder if repentance has to do more with decision than knowledge. Solomon was wise, for God opened the eyes of his understanding, but he still decided to do what he knew was unwise.


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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 04:15 PM
Then why do I fear letting him down? Perhaps because the fear of disappointing Him is not the kind of fear His love drives away?


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You do disappoint Him in every thought, word and deed. If you trust in your ability to please the Father you will always fail.

" This is my beloved Son, hear Him".

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:20 PM
Yes, we are talking about the fear of God. But I fear the fear you don't have to fear is not the fear I fear! Let me explain...

So there's a show I watch called Black Sails. In the show a pirate captain named Flint has an insightful conversation with his first mate Silver about the subject of fear. Silver informs the captain he sent a pirate he recently disciplined on a vital mission.

"Why the @$&# did you entrust him?" Flint asked in disbelief. "Do you honestly think his fear of you makes him trustworthy?"

"Yes, I trust his fear," replied Silver, "but it's not the fear you think. It's not me he fears, it's the thought of disappointing me. Now that is a fear I trust!"

Do you think, then, that the fear of the Lord is not a fear of God's punishment, but a fear of disappointing him?

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Of course we do not want to disappoint God. But I really think saying we fear disappointing Him goes around the truth, for the Bible says fear God because of wrath. I mean why would you fear disappointing Him? Why use the word fear when speaking of disappointment?

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 04:21 PM
You do disappoint Him in every thought, word and deed. If you trust in your ability to please the Father you will always fail.

" This is my beloved Son, hear Him".

True Christians try to please God. Why do you object it?

Jesus looks into our heart. No matter how small, which most of us are, He considers our effort.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:25 PM
You do disappoint Him in every thought, word and deed. If you trust in your ability to please the Father you will always fail.

" This is my beloved Son, hear Him".

Ephesians 5:10 and find out what pleases the Lord.

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

Colossians 1:10
so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord and may please Him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:28 PM
Then why do I fear letting him down? Perhaps because the fear of disappointing Him is not the kind of fear His love drives away?


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...but if you are disappointing Him, then it means you are not obeying Him. Why fear something you have no plan on doing? If you do not plan on disappointing God, then why would you fear it?

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 04:33 PM
So many churchgoers or Christians strive to accommodate already established corrupt faith.

their reasoning is full of holes that easy to detect.

OP is one of them,

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 04:35 PM
What the eyes don't see the heart can't grieve over.

And what does that have to do with repentance; either the standard definition or your own?

Do you not speak of ignorance here; leaving repentance out of the equation all together.



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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:35 PM
You do disappoint Him in every thought, word and deed. If you trust in your ability to please the Father you will always fail.

" This is my beloved Son, hear Him".

Yeah, no. Not so sure he has the same disappointment in me that I have in myself. Think about it: If God lives outside time, He sees all of me--from the day I was born till the day I die. At the beginning he knows the end. I do not see what He sees--how my disappointments will shape me into what I want to become, into what he knows I am, when I finally get there.

So while my ending might be a disappointment to Him, how I fail Him now is likely only disappointing to me. At least it is if it's true that God's already in the future.


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popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 04:36 PM
I could go into detail and bring out light from these scriptures, but I despise the spirit by which you enquire. It's the same spirit that worked in scribes and pharisees when they questioned Messiah. He didn't bother giving them an answer either...
Wow

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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:40 PM
Of course we do not want to disappoint God. But I really think saying we fear disappointing Him goes around the truth, for the Bible says fear God because of wrath. I mean why would you fear disappointing Him? Why use the word fear when speaking of disappointment?

Not sure I understand. You've never been afraid of failure? Perhaps we don't share the same experience. I fear I've been great disappointment to my earthly father.


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 04:43 PM
Yeah, no. Not so sure he has the same disappointment in me that I have in myself. Think about it: If God lives outside time, He sees all of me--from the day I was born till the day I die. At the beginning he knows the end. I do not see what He sees--how my disappointments will shape me into what I want to become, into what he knows I am, when I finally get there.

So while my ending might be a disappointment to Him, how I fail Him now is likely only disappointing to me. At least it is if it's true that God's already in the future.


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I know God is merciful. I know I am powerless and cannot do much, but I know He knows I am trying. If we stop trying to please Him, then we are in trouble.

Jesus says with God, anything is possible. I believe what Jesus is saying is that if we strive to please Him, the Holy Spirit fills our imperfection work and make it perfect in God's eye.

this is my overall and contextual perspective.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:43 PM
Not sure I understand. You've never been afraid of failure? Perhaps we don't share the same experience. I fear I've been great disappointment to my earthly father.


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I was talking about God.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 04:45 PM
Yeah, no. Not so sure he has the same disappointment in me that I have in myself. Think about it: If God lives outside time, He sees all of me--from the day I was born till the day I die. At the beginning he knows the end. I do not see what He sees--how my disappointments will shape me into what I want to become, into what he knows I am, when I finally get there.

So while my ending might be a disappointment to Him, how I fail Him now is likely only disappointing to me. At least it is if it's true that God's already in the future.


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I asked you a few days ago to give an account of your salvation and you didn't. It's called "always being prepared to give an account for the hope that is in you". You didn't do so. I have answered questions for you so would you mind affording me the same courtesy.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:45 PM
I know God is merciful. I know I am powerless and cannot do much, but I know He knows I am trying. If we stop trying to please Him, then we are in trouble.

Jesus says with God, anything is possible. I believe what Jesus is saying is that if we strive to please Him, the Holy Spirit fills our imperfection work and make it perfect in God's eye.

this is my overall and contextual perspective.

Yes. Perhaps it's the desire of the heart and not the result of the action He sees?


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 04:46 PM
Yes. Perhaps it's the desire of the heart and not the result of the action He sees?


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exactly.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:46 PM
I was talking about God.

I don't understand. Do you mean it's not possible to disappoint God?


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God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:47 PM
Yes. Perhaps it's the desire of the heart and not the result of the action He sees?


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We have to actually obey. Jesus tells us how to.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 04:48 PM
I don't understand. Do you mean it's not possible to disappoint God?


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If you dishonor you earthly father, is he going to eternally punish you?

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 04:48 PM
Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".


"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.


Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. Repentance and by default the ability to repent is not inherent in man. It cannot be apprehended by learning nor by religious experience. The gift of repentance is received upon regeneration. It is not of the soul and therefore not an emotion, although it does generate reverent sorrow.
Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. There is no room for doubt in that first, penetrating beam of spiritual light, and the repentant sinner knows things and can see things clearly for the very first time. Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. The gift of trust and repentance received at one and the same time, is the most exhilarating experience and a man will always remember where he was and when the eyes of his understanding were first opened. He is suddenly a new man and he knows for an absolute fact he will never be the same again. In the weeks months and years following there will be more times of repentance. The experience does not diminish and can only be described as extreme blessing. You begin to realise, on each and every occasion, you have been granted repentance that you have changed inside and have a certain knowledge you’ll never be the same again. The inner man is being renewed day, by day. I used to describe the experience like climbing a mountain. The struggle to reach what seems like the top only to discover another top. You reach a plateau of rest and pleasant walking where you enjoy the views, before taking on, or rather, being taken to new heights. Just as climbing is exhausting in the physical sense repentance is spiritually exhausting, because each time a part of the “old self” dies before being replaced with another mentality.

In his natural, fallen state, man has a viewpoint that is clouded by and with sin. In his regenerate state all things are become new and the eyes of the understanding or the mind are part of that renewal. Repentance is “another mentality”. There was an old, natural mentality, that we inherit from Adam and there is the new mentality that we inherit from the Last Adam and our Eternal Saviour.
This lines up with “But we have the mind of Messiah”. 1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Romans 12:2
The latter verse confirms that repentance once received is ongoing. Justification is an event that happens once, is complete, cannot be added to and is final, eternal and blessed. Amen. Repentance is the power behind sanctification and we are always being sanctified. Justification is permanent. Sanctification is by degree and therefore repentance, once received, is ongoing.
A man cannot pray for repentance, but a repentant man will pray in spirit. A man does not repent to be re-born again from above. A man repents, because he has been born again from above.
In the first creation Elohim said, “let there be Light and Light became”. In the new creation Elohim says, “Let there be Light and the man is inwardly enlightened” not from power within, but from Almighty Power without, enlightening the inner man.


Repentance is finding the strait gate. Passing through the gate is repentance being applied to the Sovereignty of Elohim. Walking the narrow way is a life of repentance in which the comforts and enjoyments of what the world has to offer are slowly, but surely recognised for their sinfulness and discarded. You are actually called "narrow minded" and there is no greater blessing and amen.

Natural man will despise this truth, but the renewed man will embrace it, because he’ll recognise the experience. When I was converted I wanted everybody I knew and those I didn’t know. To have what I have, to know what I know, to love how I love and to fellowship in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with me. It was not the case and as my signature states, “I have since been further confirmed in this truth, because it was revealed to me who never sought it and never expected it and is withheld from thousands who are working hard to get it”.
I ask you again; how does repentance cause sorrow. It is the spirit that works within the heart that brings about shame.

Sorrow is not repentance. We agree there. Sorrow brings about repentance I thought.

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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:51 PM
exactly.

I hear what you're saying. What God's Truth says sounds logical, too. Maybe you both have part of the full picture?


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Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:52 PM
If you dishonor you earthly father, is he going to eternally punish you?

He being my earthly father, or he being the Heavenly Father?


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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 04:55 PM
I hear what you're saying. What God's Truth says sounds logical, too. Maybe you both have part of the full picture?


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I am not eloquent. My writing is not perfect.

Yes, we should strive to obey but I know we cannot achieve it perfectly because Jesus' standard is perfection. That's why we need HS's help.

Spockrates
April 20th, 2017, 04:55 PM
...but if you are disappointing Him, then it means you are not obeying Him. Why fear something you have no plan on doing? If you do not plan on disappointing God, then why would you fear it?

Oh, yeah, I see now. Why do I fear disappointing God if I've already mad up my mind to sin, and so already decided to let him down.

Is that what you mean?


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popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 04:57 PM
A more modern translation uses more familiar words to me:

2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow causes repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow causes death."

I'm thinking you're right. Godly sorrow is a cause of repentance, and it's logical to me that the thing caused cannot be the same as that which causes it. For an effect is never the same as its cause. So the effect we call repentance cannot possibly be the same as its cause, which we call godly sorrow.

Since repentance isn't godly sorrow, what then is it?


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It is to change direction; not in a wholly literal sense. It also means to stop.

When you see it says "repent not" in scripture in means do not stop.

peace

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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 05:03 PM
I ask you again; how does repentance cause sorrow. It is the spirit that works within the heart that brings about shame.

Sorrow is not repentance. We agree there. Sorrow brings about repentance I thought.

peacehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/d2ada5caffac26b6013f6d43606be747.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/cdfc56ea9dd3e9f6a0441132c3c0f8e5.jpg

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I've given you the facts.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 05:08 PM
I hear what you're saying. What God's Truth says sounds logical, too. Maybe you both have part of the full picture?


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Part?

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 05:09 PM
Elohim repented is a term used by the Holy Spirit to accommodate the limited capacity of man. Elohim is said to have a face and an arm and we know for a fact Elohim is Spirit and not matter. These devices make it easier to communicate ideas to man, but taking them literally as you have is plain dumb in the light of scripture. I AM YAH VEH I CHANGE NOT and you suggest He changes His mind? Who is this mind changing wimp you worship? It is certainly not the Eternal Almighty.
The references to GOD turning from wrath aren't cases of GOD changing. They are cases of man changing due to the messages/warnings/ tidings.

Does that make sense?

peace

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God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 05:09 PM
He being my earthly father, or he being the Heavenly Father?


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Your earthly father is your biological dad or step dad.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 05:19 PM
Oh, yeah, I see now. Why do I fear disappointing God if I've already mad up my mind to sin, and so already decided to let him down.

Is that what you mean?


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I think that is a good way of saying it.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 05:25 PM
The references to GOD turning from wrath aren't cases of GOD changing. They are cases of man changing due to the messages/warnings/ tidings.

Does that make sense?

peace

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I had a chap around for a Bible study on Sunday and the study was on repentance. He understood and accepted every word I said. The reason being is he is going through the experience and my explanation matched what he was experiencing. I can speak on repentance from experience and what the scriptures teach.

The problem on here is people try and explain things they have no experience nor understanding of.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 05:29 PM
I had a chap around for a Bible study on Sunday and the study was on repentance. He understood and accepted every word I said. The reason being is he is going through the experience and my explanation matched what he was experiencing. I can speak on repentance from experience and what the scriptures teach.

The problem on here is people try and explain things they have no experience nor understanding of.


how do you know we don't experience?

I sure have experience what it is with God's teachings and without it.

I see it all around me. I see it clearly in the world.

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 05:32 PM
Then why do I fear letting him down? Perhaps because the fear of disappointing Him is not the kind of fear His love drives away?


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True love is faithfulness. It is evergiving and unconditional.

Though the fear of GOD may lead one to devotion and faithfulness; in having said devotion and unwavering love one would have no thing to fear whatsoever.

The fear of GOD as I understand it is the fear of the consiquinces of one's own actions or the lack there of. If one is a devout love or holds a devout love; a true love without waver, then their actions would reflect such a love at all concievablecases intervals.

Such an individual would have no shame upon judgement and no fear in life on this plane or material existence.

peace

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popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 05:57 PM
Not sure I understand. You've never been afraid of failure? Perhaps we don't share the same experience. I fear I've been great disappointment to my earthly father.


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Know that mistakes made are lessons to be learned. This too brings about repentance.

If you couldn't perceive the mistakes then you would be of the ignorant. The mere fact that you do feel shame shows that you are meant to be close to GOD in my opinion.

Patience friend, and perseverance in what you KNOW of the will of GOD in your personal life.

Peace friend.

If you object to me interjecting with unwarranted advice to a post that was never intended for me then I understand. Just let me know.

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popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM
I've given you the facts.
I just provided you with unmolested scripture showing that sorrow is causal to repentance yet you deny it still.

You are in error.



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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:11 PM
I just provided you with unmolested scripture showing that sorrow is causal to repentance yet you deny it still.

You are in error.



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In which case I have been led into error by the anointing and that is a lie. So why don't you take your blasphemies and haunt someone else.

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 06:14 PM
I had a chap around for a Bible study on Sunday and the study was on repentance. He understood and accepted every word I said. The reason being is he is going through the experience and my explanation matched what he was experiencing. I can speak on repentance from experience and what the scriptures teach.

The problem on here is people try and explain things they have no experience nor understanding of.
That isn't the first time you have haughtily assumed what I have personally experienced.

Sheep follow anyone. The weight will be on your shoulders.

I will tell you one time;
I am no sheep, I am no deceiver.

Fill in the blanks. It's okay, you can continue to accuse without any justification whatsoever.

May GOD have mercy on your soul and mine alike.

peace

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popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 06:21 PM
In which case I have been led into error by the anointing and that is a lie. So why don't you take your blasphemies and haunt someone else.

Again; fill in the blanks. If one cannot be lead into error by being the anointed of GOD, and you refute the plain reading of scripture then that only leaves a couple of possibilities;

Either you somehow mistook the knowledge that was given you from the Holy Spirit (impossible), or in vanity you overtime allowed pride to manipulate the message of the Holy Spirit, or a wholly different spirit is what you experienced.

peace



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Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:26 PM
If your religion or your hope in salvation is based on anything you have said, done or obeyed then you are building on sand.

If your salvation is based on what has been done for you, to you and on your behalf and your trust is in Yah Shua Messiah having pleased the Father, then you have the makings of a solid foundation.

If you have built on this by making your calling and election sure then you would recognise, know and love the truth that has set you free.

Historically, most people on here hate the truth, deny the truth and abuse those that post the truth. You should know, for an absolute certainty, that if this is the case with you then you have been deluded. You are in the broad way that leads to destruction. The righteous acts you perform are an abomination. When your dread comes, and it will come, He will laugh at you.

I also shall laugh at your calamity;
I shall deride when your dread cometh;
when your dread cometh as devastation
and your calamity cometh as a hurricane;
when tribulation and distress
cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon Me,
but I shall not answer;
they shall seek me early,
but they shall not find me:
for that they hated knowledge,
and did not choose the awe of Yah Veh:
they willed none of my counsel:
they scorned all my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat the fruit of their own way,
and be satiated with their own counsels.
For the apostasy of the gullible
shall slaughter them,
and the serenity of fools shall destroy them.

But whoso hearkeneth unto me
shall tabernacle confidently
and shall relax from dread of evil.

Adam was a representative of the entire human race, and when he sinned, his sin is imputed to all whom he represented.

Messiah was a representative of a certain people, and when He lived a perfect sinless life, suffered, died and did rise again his justness is imputed to all whom He represented.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:31 PM
=Truster;4991574] and when He lived a perfect sinless life, suffered, died and did rise again his justness is imputed to all whom He represented.

Who repented and accepted Jesus as a Lord and Savior.

I bolded your error.

it is not biblical. It is your opinion.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:34 PM
=Truster;4991574] and when He lived a perfect sinless life, suffered, died and did rise again his justness is imputed to all whom He represented.

Who repented and accepted Jesus as a Lord and Savior.

I bolded your error.

it is not biblical. It is your opinion.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

Ordained means those who Messiah represented.


Adam was a representative of the entire human race, and when he sinned, his sin is imputed to all whom he represented.

Messiah was a representative of a certain people, and when He lived a perfect sinless life, suffered, died and did rise again his justness is imputed to all whom He represented.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=meshak;4991581]

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

reference?

Where is it in the Bible?

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:41 PM
[QUOTE=Truster;4991587]

reference?

Where is it in the Bible?

I thought you knew the Bible, go seek.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:43 PM
[QUOTE=meshak;4991594]

I thought you knew the Bible, go seek.

I don't trust you know what you are talking about.

that's why I asked you.

as I thought, it is only your holy opinion.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=Truster;4991600]

I don't trust you know what you are talking about.

that's why I asked you.

as I thought, it is only your holy opinion.

Its in the Bible.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 06:44 PM
reference?

Where is it in the Bible?

He changes words and says things about the scriptures that are not true and it makes the written Word of God unrecognizable.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:46 PM
Maybe someone in whom the word richly dwells will point you in the right direction.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:46 PM
He changes words and says things about the scriptures that are not true and it makes the written Word of God unrecognizable.


I know, many do that. That's why I asked him the reference.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:47 PM
Maybe someone in whom the word richly dwells will point you in the right direction.

sleazy excuse for ignorant and corrupt faith.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:49 PM
Nobody come along yet? Nobody in whom the word of Elohim richly dwells. Nobody who recognises scripture?

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:49 PM
Do you actually own a Bible? Rhetorical?

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 06:53 PM
[QUOTE=meshak;4991594]

I thought you knew the Bible, go seek.
You only seek to confuse those whose earnest wish it is to be faithful to GOD through the way, which is to say the Christ of GOD; the actual anointed of GOD.

Your true colors are really beginning to show. They are dark as black and wreak of death. You seem to be attempting to be guilty of the one sin that may not be forgiven. We are even suggested not to pray for those guilty of such.

Do you understand such implications?

peace

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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:53 PM
delete

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:54 PM
[QUOTE=Truster;4991600]
You only seek to confuse those whose earnest wish it is to be faithful to GOD through the way, which is to say the Christ of GOD; the actual anointed of GOD.

Your true colors are really beginning to show. They are dark as black and wreak of death. You seem to be attempting to be guilty of the one sin that may not be forgiven. We are even suggested not to pray for those guilty of such.

Do you understand such implications?

peace

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Unfounded vain speculation.And you are as dimwitted as she is otherwise you'd have recognised the scripture.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:55 PM
Acts 13:48

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 06:56 PM
Unfounded vain speculation.

You have been speculating everyone else's faith.

pot and kettle.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 06:59 PM
You have been speculating everyone else's faith.

pot and kettle.

I don't speculate. I judge and test the spirits.

So you've got the verse what have you got to say?*

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:01 PM
Acts 13:48


Acts 13:48New International Version (NIV)

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

As I thought, you skipped "believed".

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:02 PM
I don't speculate. I judge and test the spirits.

So you've got the verse what have you got to say?*

Your puffed up faith is not of Jesus. It is of satan.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Acts 13:48New International Version (NIV)

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

As I thought, you skipped "believed".

I used a different translation.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 07:06 PM
[QUOTE=popsthebuilder;4991627]

Unfounded vain speculation.And you are as dimwitted as she is otherwise you'd have recognised the scripture.
I said nothing about the scriptures, nor did I refute them.

You would be terribly wrong in assuming any stereotype asosiated with me.

Your statement was actually correct in ways. All have the potential to come to GOD. All will not. Not until the withered branches are pruned, the healthy branches grafted in, fruit abounds, and the withered branches are burned up, being no more.

peace

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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:07 PM
I used a different translation.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

which version?

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 07:08 PM
Your puffed up faith is not of Jesus. It is of satan.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You poor sad wretched fiend.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:09 PM
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You poor sad wretched fiend.

Now you seem to equate yourself with the HS.

You have no shame.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 07:09 PM
I used a different translation.
Which translation is that?

I

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

The scripture says the Gentiles were ordained to be included, and ALL the Gentiles that were there--- BELIEVED. It does NOT say God caused them to believe and or trust. You want to rewrite the Bible, but you cannot.

The scripture says when the GENTILES heard this they began rejoicing. Why do you think they were rejoicing? The Gentiles were just told that they could now have a relationship with God; they could now have eternal life. The Gentiles used to be excluded, and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

HOWEVER, NOW they were told they could have salvation! All those Gentiles who were there who heard the good news, that Gentiles as a race of people could now have eternal life, they believed. Gentiles as a nation of people were appointed to eternal life, not all Gentiles will have eternal life, and only the Gentiles who believe will have eternal life. The Gentiles who were appointed life---all those there at that time believed.

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

There were Jews AND Gentiles in the crowd. All who were appointed [the Gentiles] in the crowd, all of them there believed.

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 07:09 PM
which version?

The only difference is between the word trust and believe.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:11 PM
delete

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 07:15 PM
Not exactly. You worded differently.

You even try to change what the scripture says.

I have access to 20 translations and I check for the best translations on each verse of scripture. I also have access to translations in 15 languages so I check verses against them as well. I want to know exactly what was said and what was understood by those who first heard or read the words.


And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life trusted.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:19 PM
delete

Truster
April 20th, 2017, 07:25 PM
You still refuse to reveal what version you used.

you sure are something else.

By Herb Yahn.

I don't see the point in telling you because you wouldn't know it.

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:27 PM
delete

meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:39 PM
Christians' foundation is in the Christ meaning their faith is based on what Jesus says in the New Testament.

All Jesus' word is Gospel.

It is that simple, everyone.

popsthebuilder
April 20th, 2017, 07:46 PM
trust, believe, have faith, and be faithful should be seen as synonymous in my opinion.

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meshak
April 20th, 2017, 07:47 PM
trust, believe, have faith, and be faithful should be seen as synonymous in my opinion.

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yes.

God's Truth
April 20th, 2017, 08:12 PM
trust, believe, have faith, and be faithful should be seen as synonymous in my opinion.

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...except that the word is believe. We are told to believe so many times. Truster changes words and it is very suspicious. He also changed the word 'repent' to something else too.