PDA

View Full Version : Is Naughty Language Sinful?



ok doser
March 30th, 2017, 10:04 AM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 11:10 AM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

There are passages that people would use... but they are talking about a deeper matter. Like all works based judgments of flesh... people like to store up a list of do's and don'ts to correct others with and profess holiness.

I, personally have worked in the oil field and was in the service. Just saying... God knows the words that I think... thus I'm not hiding it from anyone. I have even used this word during witness... yup... the time was appropriate.

I told a young man that He "thought" he was an atheist and he "thought" he was saying **** God. But, I told him he was really saying **** the falsely conveyed idea of God. I told him he correctly was saying **** religion.

He looked at me in shock. I then told him that God is every bit as mad at religion as he was. I told Him that God did away with religion and I could show Him in scripture where men of God expressed the same sentiment. I showed him where God calls people that falsely judge and push a fake form of Him on others... whores. I showed him where Paul said he wished the judaizers that pushed works (circumcision) of the flesh should go ahead and keep on cutting until they cut their manhood off. I showed him where Elijah scorned the prophets of ba'al with sarcasm and wit. In actual manuscripts Elijah insinuates that ba'al might be "covering his feet"... so he was too busy to help at the moment. The implications of the words he was using are pretty clear and comical.

I showed him where prostitutes, whore mongers and adulterous people were in the very lineage of Jesus.

Then... I dropped the gospel on him and showed him where Jesus drank and ate with sinful people!

By the grace of God he was baptized and gave his life to Jesus. 2 weeks later I saw him again. He was surrounded by religious people and the only thing he could say to me was that I ought not use that word when I witness. I managed to use that word in a funny way that made him laugh and realize that he was becoming what he had rejected for his whole life.

He smiled and said... I get it... it's about the heart and Jesus and not us.

That boy went on to bring many of his friends to Jesus. This is my opinion on the matter, There is a time and place for everything. If I were to say that word in front of my mother... welll...free ticket to the moon. Rotfl.

- EE

Sherman
March 30th, 2017, 11:15 AM
It is more the intent behind the words and not the words themselves. What are considered 'dirty' words today were normal words at a earlier time. Still words can cause offense to a weaker brother. Behind the screen it is hard to tell the intent behind words. That is why the forum rules on profanity and implied profanity are what they are.

Nihilo
March 30th, 2017, 11:17 AM
The [E-_-G]ubar-word (carefully not implying profanity) is one of those words with multiple definitions in the dictionary. They are each homonyms. Which homonym do you mean? Personally there's a line for me between using the homonym that means coitus, and the homonym that is used as an interjection or gerund.

patrick jane
March 30th, 2017, 11:17 AM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?I'm reporting you

daqq
March 30th, 2017, 11:18 AM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

The passages which speak of the conscience are going to be where you will find support because your question concerns a particular word, and therefore the question is in a cultural context, (that particular word did not exist in the first century but no doubt there was and is an equivalent), and therefore your conscience, if working properly, ought to dictate whether you should use that particular word or not. My conscience tells me, no, I should not use that word, and for that I do have support from quite a few passages in scripture. :)

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 11:22 AM
It is more the intent behind the words and not the words themselves. What are considered 'dirty' words today were normal words at a earlier time. Still words can cause offense to a weaker brother. Behind the screen it is hard to tell the intent behind words. That is why the forum rules on profanity and implied profanity are what they are.




Not a shock here... because it's you.... but... well "worded".

:thumb:

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 11:26 AM
The passages which speak of the conscience are going to be where you will find support because your question concerns a particular word, and therefore the question is in a cultural context, (that particular word did not exist in the first century but no doubt there was and is an equivalent), and therefore your conscience, if working properly, ought to dictate whether you should use that particular word or not. My conscience tells me, no, I should not use that word, and for that I do have support from quite a few passages in scripture. :)

Big shocker, here.

:D

I know the exact passages you would quote too. Do you quote; "do you not know your bodies are are the temple of God" to teach people how to "be" holy?

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 11:34 AM
I'm reporting you

What's wrong with falafels?

Spitfire
March 30th, 2017, 12:19 PM
Romans 12:14 - Bless them that persecute you: bless, and curse not.

James 3:8-10 - But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Luke 6:45 - A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 12:33-38 - Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

daqq
March 30th, 2017, 12:20 PM
Big shocker, here.

:D

I know the exact passages you would quote too. Do you quote; "do you not know your bodies are are the temple of God" to teach people how to "be" holy?

Where do you get such ideas as you attribute to me? Where did I say I am here "to teach people how to "be" holy"? I simply answered the OP question from what I know, and from what I have read from the writings of Paul; and I spoke of the conscience, which Paul speaks much about. Where do you see anything about the conscience in the passage you quoted, "do you not know your bodies are are the temple of God"?? I see nothing there about the conscience.

Do you not know that the conscience is likened to a garment? If your conscience is defiled then your garment is defiled because that is the analogy: are we not admonished by the Master and his apostles to keep our garment spotless? (cf. Jude 1:23, Rev 16:15). According to my doctrine as many as have sinned without Torah shall also perish without Torah; and as many as have sinned in the Torah shall be judged by the Torah, for not the hearers of the Torah are just before Elohim, but the doers of the Torah shall be justified: for when the nations, which have not the Torah, do by nature the supernal things contained in the Torah; those not having the Torah are a law unto themselves, which show forth the work of the Torah having been written in their hearts: their own conscience jointly testifying like two witnesses, in the day wherein Elohim shall judge the secrets of men, by the Master, Meshiah, according to my gospel. And the "books" of the mind shall be opened in that day; your own thoughts being your own Accuser, (or else excusing you). Elohim is the Great Psychologist over all the so-called psychologists: no one is going to outsmart Him because these things are within the very nature of our creation, and those having a clear conscience would never even think that they could outsmart Him; but those with a defiled conscience or a seared conscience, (as if like a hot iron on a ruined garment), sure seem to think they can outsmart Him. :chuckle:

chair
March 30th, 2017, 12:31 PM
Murder is EVIL. 4 letter words are NOT NICE.

Nihilo
March 30th, 2017, 01:34 PM
Homonyms divide between words that are pronounced the same but spelled differently (homophones), those that are spelled the same but pronounced differently (homographs), and words that are both spelled the same and sound the same (arguably "true homonyms"). The common factor though is that there are two or more truly distinct words with distinct meanings, and that naturally can lead to confusion caused by the ambiguity. The sna[E-_-G]u-word (carefully not implying profanity) is a homonym. For instance, [E-_-G]ubar and sna[E-_-G]u are neologisms from the WWII era and the word implied there by these acronyms is not the vulgar word that means coitus.

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 02:25 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?


Paul said, "Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)

Our words should impart edification and grace.

Epoisses
March 30th, 2017, 03:59 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

Whatever is not of faith is sin. If you believe the F-word is a sin then for you it is a sin. If you believe like the apostle Paul that all things are lawful then you know it's not a sin but probably still won't use it so as not to offend all the cry babies!

ok doser
March 30th, 2017, 04:06 PM
There are passages that people would use... but they are talking about a deeper matter. Like all works based judgments of flesh... people like to store up a list of do's and don'ts to correct others with and profess holiness.

I, personally have worked in the oil field and was in the service. ....

i was thinking the same thing today - my son's in the service and many of the students in my classes are young ex-service members - our local economy is driven by the 10th mountain division paycheck

while their language is often coarse, i take it in stride knowing their background

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 04:09 PM
i was thinking the same thing today - my son's in the service and many of the students in my classes are young ex-service members - our local economy is driven by the 10th mountain division paycheck

while their language is often coarse, i take it in stride knowing their background

If I didn't use certain vernacular every other word in service... people would scratch their head and look at me like I spoke another language.

All Respect and Blessings in our TriUne Savior,

- EE

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 04:10 PM
Homonyms divide between words that are pronounced the same but spelled differently (homophones), those that are spelled the same but pronounced differently (homographs), and words that are both spelled the same and sound the same (arguably "true homonyms"). The common factor though is that there are two or more truly distinct words with distinct meanings, and that naturally can lead to confusion caused by the ambiguity. The sna[E-_-G]u-word (carefully not implying profanity) is a homonym. For instance, [E-_-G]ubar and sna[E-_-G]u are neologisms from the WWII era and the word implied there by these acronyms is not the vulgar word that means coitus.

Your four letter wisdom is astounding! I feel stupid right now. You, sir, are a word Jedi.

:D

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 04:13 PM
Murder is EVIL. 4 letter words are NOT NICE.

I think you meant this sincerely and seriously and I get the gist... but it cracked me up. Did you mean it to be humorous, or is it simply the intellect behind the simplicity?

ok doser
March 30th, 2017, 04:19 PM
Murder is EVIL. 4 letter words are NOT NICE.

in this particular case, enabling the murder of children was deemed "tragically wrong" while using the F-bomb was "evil"

makes your head spin, don't it? :dizzy:


Paul said, "Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)

Our words should impart edification and grace.

this is one of the verses i was looking for (pressed for time this morning)

how do we define "corrupt"?

the f-word is deemed (at the moment) to be vulgar, but many words change their acceptance levels with time - the current generation will probably not see it as objectionable when they're our age

Bright Raven
March 30th, 2017, 04:29 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?Ephesians 4:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 30th, 2017, 04:40 PM
Ephesians 4:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

You sir, are a Grace man... You quote this with situational understanding. I understand your understanding.

-EE

meshak
March 30th, 2017, 05:26 PM
If I didn't use certain vernacular every other word in service... people would scratch their head and look at me like I spoke another language.

All Respect and Blessings in our TriUne Savior,

- EE

FYI,

It is against their rules and regulations to use cursing words in the military.

ok doser
March 30th, 2017, 05:33 PM
FYI,

It is against their rules and regulations to use cursing words in the military.

cursing doesn't mean the same thing that it meant in scripture

ok doser
March 30th, 2017, 05:35 PM
Patton:

Profanity serves a purpose in the military. General Patton explained; “When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can’t run an Army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An Army without profanity couldn’t fight it’s way out of a piss-soaked paper bag.”


http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=18147

meshak
March 30th, 2017, 05:41 PM
cursing doesn't mean the same thing that it meant in scripture

Profanity is against rules and regulation in the military.

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 05:50 PM
how do we define "corrupt"?



G4550 σαπρός sapros sap-ros' From G4595; rotten, that is, worthless (literally or morally): - bad, corrupt. Compt. G4190. (Strong's)

Tambora
March 30th, 2017, 07:20 PM
how do we define "corrupt"?

not useful, not beneficial

Lazy afternoon
March 30th, 2017, 07:41 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

Where did it come from?

It stands for -- For Unlawfil Carnal Knowledge, which was written somehere on or near the stocks where people were being publically punished for the transgression.

Now of course it is a profanity which comes out of the mouths of them who are about to crash or some disaster.

In some cases it just means something to fill in between other words.

LA

Nihilo
March 30th, 2017, 07:48 PM
Where did it come from?

It stands for -- For Unlawfil Carnal Knowledge, which was written somehere on or near the stocks where people were being publically punished for the transgression.Made up.

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
March 31st, 2017, 07:43 AM
Profanity is against rules and regulation in the military.

I served in that military! You don't even "support" the military. You never fail to outdo yourself. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

oatmeal
March 31st, 2017, 01:00 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but rather that which good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace to the hearers.

I suppose it might be possible that the f word could be edifying and minister grace to a hearer, but my imagination is not sufficient to produce such a scenario

ok doser
March 31st, 2017, 01:17 PM
but does that mean that it's evil, that it's sinful?

1 Corinthians 13:4 tells me that love is patient


was i sinning when I was impatient with my children?

meshak
March 31st, 2017, 02:43 PM
I served in that military! You don't even "support" the military. You never fail to outdo yourself. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.


Hello, EE:)

jamie
March 31st, 2017, 02:52 PM
was i sinning when I was impatient with my children?


All unrighteousness is sin. Your answer would depend on the circumstances as to how you demonstrated your impatience. I hope you didn't use inappropriate language to your children. That would not have edified them.

ok doser
March 31st, 2017, 03:04 PM
All unrighteousness is sin.

i can't imagine a "righteous" way of eating a peach - am i sinning when i eat a peach?

glorydaz
March 31st, 2017, 03:07 PM
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but rather that which good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace to the hearers.

I suppose it might be possible that the f word could be edifying and minister grace to a hearer, but my imagination is not sufficient to produce such a scenario

Like anything else...it rests with the intent in one's heart. Is there malice etc.?


Eph. 4:29-31 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

glorydaz
March 31st, 2017, 03:08 PM
i can't imagine a "righteous" way of eating a peach - am i sinning when i eat a peach?

Not if you let it drip down your chin and it offends someone. :chuckle:

oatmeal
March 31st, 2017, 03:56 PM
Like anything else...it rests with the intent in one's heart. Is there malice etc.?


Eph. 4:29-31 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Yes, indeed. Likewise we are not to lie one to another. God's word has much to say what should and should not come out of our mouth's and what should and should not be in our hearts.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks

There are a lot of words in scripture that call a spade a spade so to speak. Words that as I remember were censored by this website. The three letter word for donkey is one that is found in scripture but in my experience is not permitted to be used on this website. We will try this one. Genesis 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ***; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Evidently, God's choice of words is not acceptable on this website.

jamie
March 31st, 2017, 05:42 PM
i can't imagine a "righteous" way of eating a peach - am i sinning when i eat a peach?


If you eat it in faith you'll probably be okay, but whatever is not of faith is sin.

glorydaz
March 31st, 2017, 07:21 PM
Yes, indeed. Likewise we are not to lie one to another. God's word has much to say what should and should not come out of our mouth's and what should and should not be in our hearts.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks

There are a lot of words in scripture that call a spade a spade so to speak. Words that as I remember were censored by this website. The three letter word for donkey is one that is found in scripture but in my experience is not permitted to be used on this website. We will try this one. Genesis 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ***; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Evidently, God's choice of words is not acceptable on this website.

Except when someone uses that word on this website, they are not talking about an animal, are they? Their intent is usually as a result of malice.

glorydaz
March 31st, 2017, 07:48 PM
If you eat it in faith you'll probably be okay, but whatever is not of faith is sin.

Which cannot apply to believers who trust in the Lord and give glory to God. Not of faith is unbelief.

Romans 4:20KJV
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Tambora
March 31st, 2017, 08:32 PM
If you eat it in faith you'll probably be okay, but whatever is not of faith is sin.I wish more would remember that verse.

oatmeal
April 1st, 2017, 07:42 AM
Except when someone uses that word on this website, they are not talking about an animal, are they? Their intent is usually as a result of malice.

Well, I used it because it is contained in scripture and I desired to convey truth. As you pointed out, motive is a part of why we do things.

God does not have a problem with using words that describe what HE wants said accurately. He does so that we may learn to discern truth from error.

ok doser
April 1st, 2017, 10:23 AM
Well, I used it because it is contained in scripture and I desired to convey truth. As you pointed out, motive is a part of why we do things.

God does not have a problem with using words that describe what HE wants said accurately. He does so that we may learn to discern truth from error.


ok, this could go in a variety of directions and I really have to get my paper written, but.....


how does this all apply to a non-believer (like the fellow in the youtube video whose language sparked this discussion)?

1Mind1Spirit
April 1st, 2017, 12:36 PM
I wish more would remember that verse.

Luke 21:19

“In your patience possess ye your souls.” :)

1Mind1Spirit
April 1st, 2017, 12:39 PM
but does that mean that it's evil, that it's sinful?

1 Corinthians 13:4 tells me that love is patient


was i sinning when I was impatient with my children?

More'n likely.;):chuckle:

Nihilo
April 1st, 2017, 08:31 PM
i can't imagine a "righteous" way of eating a peach - am i sinning when i eat a peach?You have to slurp and suck at it while you're biting. It's not going to be quiet, and standing over a sink isn't a bad idea.

But having a nice sharp knife you could instead slice off pieces and eat those. Because of the sharp blade, the juice tends to stay in the flesh instead of want to squirt all over the place.

BTW, I dogging love God. God is dogging awesome. Dog I love God. :devil:

Nihilo
April 1st, 2017, 08:45 PM
More'n likely.;):chuckle:And is that a problem? No. If you really want to know what perfect is, you can know much more precisely than you ever dreamed. We just need to receive that we are not the source of morality and goodness, we can only recognize what already nonfictionally exists outside of ourselves; we cannot, and we do not create or change morals, but we can however see them, and we can see when they are violated. These violations are sins or trespasses, and everyone sins and is a trespasser. And what if someone lives for six or seven decades trespassing in a certain way, and never realizing they were sinning all along in that way? And then they found out? What should they think? What should they do? What about eight decades? Nine? What if a 100-year-old realizes that they've believed something that is good and right, is actually evil and from the pit of hell? They've fought against goodness, because they thought they were warring against evil? But now they see aright. Who are they now?

1Mind1Spirit
April 1st, 2017, 10:50 PM
And is that a problem? No. If you really want to know what perfect is, you can know much more precisely than you ever dreamed. We just need to receive that we are not the source of morality and goodness, we can only recognize what already nonfictionally exists outside of ourselves; we cannot, and we do not create or change morals, but we can however see them, and we can see when they are violated. These violations are sins or trespasses, and everyone sins and is a trespasser. And what if someone lives for six or seven decades trespassing in a certain way, and never realizing they were sinning all along in that way? And then they found out? What should they think? What should they do? What about eight decades? Nine? What if a 100-year-old realizes that they've believed something that is good and right, is actually evil and from the pit of hell? They've fought against goodness, because they thought they were warring against evil? But now they see aright. Who are they now?

Song of Solomon
Chapter 1

1
The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2
Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
3
Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
4
Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
5
I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
6
Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
7
Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon: for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?
8
If thou know not, O thou fairest among women, go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock, and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.
9
I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh's chariots.
10
Thy cheeks are comely with rows of jewels, thy neck with chains of gold.
11
We will make thee borders of gold with studs of silver.
12
While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.
13
A bundle of myrrh is my wellbeloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
14
My beloved is unto me as a cluster of camphire in the vineyards of Engedi.
15
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes.
16
Behold, thou art fair, my beloved, yea, pleasant: also our bed is green.
17
The beams of our house are cedar, and our rafters of fir.

ok doser
April 2nd, 2017, 07:17 AM
"they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept"

what's he talking about here?

Truster
April 2nd, 2017, 07:33 AM
Why does a person use offensive terms
and then say, sorry, I hope I didnít offend?
Itís like punching someone in the face
and saying, sorry, I hope I didnít hurt you.

There is as much violence in a word
as there is in physical violence
Once used it is pointless saying sorry,
because if you were truly sorry,
you wouldnít have done it or said it.

oatmeal
April 2nd, 2017, 01:25 PM
Indeed. Should believers succumb to political correctness? God tells to not let any corrupt communication to come out of our mouth. Is that the same thing as PC?

Angel4Truth
April 3rd, 2017, 05:16 PM
Can anybody provide scriptural support for the contention that using the F-word is evil?

Ephesians 5:4
Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving.

Colossians 3:8
But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your mouth.

ok doser
April 3rd, 2017, 05:19 PM
which is worse?

crude language or lying?

Angel4Truth
April 3rd, 2017, 05:47 PM
which is worse?

crude language or lying?

lying - which is one of the commandments unless of course the crude language is referring to God or a parent, then they would be on par as far as what a sin is.

ok doser
April 3rd, 2017, 05:52 PM
seems to be a spate of lying here on tol lately :think:

Nihilo
April 3rd, 2017, 06:41 PM
which is worse?

crude language or lying?

lying - which is one of the commandments unless of course the crude language is referring to God or a parent, then they would be on par as far as what a sin is.The Catholic Church teaches that dishonesty becomes graver the more serious the harm done by the deceit, so if someone dies because of a lie, then that lie is a mortal sin, but a "white lie" without any harm done, is venial.

ok doser
April 3rd, 2017, 06:44 PM
The Catholic Church teaches that dishonesty becomes graver the more serious the harm done by the deceit, so if someone dies because of a lie, then that lie is a mortal sin, but a "white lie" without any harm done, is venial.

interesting

are you Catholic?


What about a lie that intends grave harm but is ineffective?

Nihilo
April 3rd, 2017, 07:14 PM
interesting

are you Catholic?


What about a lie that intends grave harm but is ineffective?:think: I'll have to review the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a better answer, but from what I know the gravity of a sin depends upon the actual harm done, not its intent. The imputability of the guilt for the sin though, does depend upon intent. In this case, where there's no or limited harm actually done, firstly the trespass (the lie) is intrinsically light, regardless of the intent. Only secondly would we say that the deceiver is fully guilty . . . of a venial sin. 'Could be wrong of course, but I'll look into it because it's a good question. :thumb:

ok doser
April 4th, 2017, 02:10 PM
:think: I'll have to review the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a better answer, but from what I know the gravity of a sin depends upon the actual harm done, not its intent. The imputability of the guilt for the sin though, does depend upon intent. In this case, where there's no or limited harm actually done, firstly the trespass (the lie) is intrinsically light, regardless of the intent. Only secondly would we say that the deceiver is fully guilty . . . of a venial sin. 'Could be wrong of course, but I'll look into it because it's a good question. :thumb:


thanks

the reason i asked if you're a catholic is that you're an old timer here at tol and i wondered if you had any contact with zippy

or trad

i miss both of them, although trad seemed to have gone off the rails lately

Nihilo
April 4th, 2017, 09:19 PM
thanks

the reason i asked if you're a catholic is that you're an old timer here at tol and i wondered if you had any contact with zippy

or trad

i miss both of them, although trad seemed to have gone off the rails latelyNo I don't, but I had quality interactions with both of them myself.