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bling
March 24th, 2017, 03:06 PM
I am teaching an adult class on the parable Matt. 18: 21-35 “The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant” and would like your comments on this parable.

A lot of commentaries (especially Calvinistic Commentaries) tell us what this parable does not teach, but give little support for what it does teach, so what is it teaching us?

What can we hopefully agree with from the information given and please give other options if you have them and scripture to back it up:

1.It starts off ““The kingdom of heaven is like…” so if it is consistent with all other Kingdom Parables every noun and verb in the parable would have to have a parallel spiritual kingdom meaning (stand for something in the kingdom)?


2.Since this is a Kingdom parable could it be talking about a time prior to Christ going to the cross?


3.The “king”/”master” would refer to God since Christ ends with “This is how my Father in heaven will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” Options?


4.The first debtor (man/servant) has to be a sinner, but could this be a saved Christian (servant) and/or just any unbeliever?


5.The “debt” is huge 10,000 bags of Gold (5+ billion dollars) or 10,000 bags of silver (100 million dollars) no matter, either is way above what could be paid back by a servant. Gold or silver, this is virtually an impossible amount for one person to ever owe in the first century and everyone Jesus was addressing would have realized this. Spiritually this debt would represent each of our debts created by our sinning against God and Jesus said: “The man was not able to pay”?


6.The servant did not just slip into this huge debt over night, but would have had to take years or a life time to get so deeply in debt, so he is not coming to the master unaware. To be trusted by the Master with such a huge amount of money; suggest the servant understood economics and the value of the money or would have learned about it over time.


7.The servant asks ‘Give me time,’ he begged. ‘I’ll pay everything back.’ Is this a lie to the master or how could he not know he could not pay it back? Was the Master so stupid as to entrust a stupid servant with this much money?


8.Would/could the Master have felt the servant could pay this back over time?


9. Jesus said: “He forgave him what he owed”, but was that what the servant was asking for?


10.Could the servant have felt: “he got away with something by asking for more time”, “the master is gullible”, “he still owes master but gave him more time”, “the master must like him”?


11.Matt.18:28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded. This sounds like: the first servant immediate went out and found a fellow servant of the Master with little time elapsing, so is he unloving to a servant of the master?


12.Jesus teaches us in Luke 7:36-50 “… he that is forgiven much loves much…”, so since this first servant was forgiven of such a unbelievable huge debt he would automatically and have to have an unbelievable huge Love which would easily be seen in his actions toward another servant of the master since servants of good masters were almost treated as family members. How could this servant be unloving toward a servant of the Master if he Loved the master?


13.Did the Master expect the servant to show great Love?


14.How could the Master “handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.” Since the master had forgiven the debt the servant owed, so the servant owed the Master nothing?


15.If the servant has to payback this unbelievable huge debt before the torture can stop how long will that take and does that not sound like hell?


16.Since the servant shows no great love after the Master forgave him and since the servant still owes the master the huge debt forgiveness must not have taken place even though the master did His part perfectly was there a part the servant had to play to complete the forgiveness transaction?


17.If there is a part the sinner must play (humbly accepting the pure charity) in the forgiveness process would it take anything away from God’s sovereignty?

Lazy afternoon
March 24th, 2017, 04:53 PM
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The debt was forgiven completely, but now he has to pay for his unforgiveness of another who owed him.

In all cases forgiveness depends on the repenting of the wrongdoer, so that any who sin against the Lord who do not repent, will not be forgiven.

This shows that the so called grace of the Madist who expects forgiveness ahead of their sinning is not Grace, but is the sin of presumption.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

LA

bling
March 27th, 2017, 09:48 AM
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The debt was forgiven completely, but now he has to pay for his unforgiveness of another who owed him.

In all cases forgiveness depends on the repenting of the wrongdoer, so that any who sin against the Lord who do not repent, will not be forgiven.

This shows that the so called grace of the Madist who expects forgiveness ahead of their sinning is not Grace, but is the sin of presumption.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

LA
There is nothing said about a "new debt" or another debt. The first servant does not "owe this master in the parable anything for the legal way he is treating the second servant.

The Greek is referring to the same debt?

I do think Jesus is redefining forgiveness but not in away as to make it contingent?

Lazy afternoon
March 27th, 2017, 06:42 PM
The parable seems to teach that after being forgiven that one may still be handed over to the tormenters, if the same grace is not given to those indebted to us, if they also ask for forgiveness.

LA

bling
March 28th, 2017, 10:53 AM
The parable seems to teach that after being forgiven that one may still be handed over to the tormenters, if the same grace is not given to those indebted to us, if they also ask for forgiveness.

LA
So you do not think there is a thing as unconditional forgiveness? Is there also no unconditional Love?

Lazy afternoon
March 29th, 2017, 03:16 AM
So you do not think there is a thing as unconditional forgiveness? Is there also no unconditional Love?

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

meshak
March 29th, 2017, 03:28 AM
So you do not think there is a thing as unconditional forgiveness? Is there also no unconditional Love?

They are conditional, friend.

If you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven.

If you don't love, you will not be loved by God nor Jesus.