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Knight
January 17th, 2004, 09:47 PM
Ya know it's really frustrating sometimes when you ask people seemingly simple questions and you get no response or some long drawn out response that isn't much more than pure obfuscation.

I always try to answer questions asked of me with simple direct answers.

After all... can't you answer the question directly and then go on to provide further explanation if you feel the answer warrants it? Shouldn't a sound world-view and theology be afraid of no question?

Therefore I give you....

ASK KNIGHT! :knight:

Ask me anyhting you want and I promise to give you a short direct answer.

No *topic is "off limits". The openess of God, dispensationalism, conservativism, hockey, whatever!!!

Ask away.... and get the answers you are seeking. :D

*topics that are are inappropriate for TOL are inappropriate for "Ask Knight" as well.

P.S. I will do my best to answer your question in a timely manner. :)

SOTK
January 17th, 2004, 09:53 PM
:cool:

ebenz47037
January 17th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Dad, can I have $1,000? :chuckle:

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Dad, can I have $1,000? :chuckle: no.

Turbo
January 17th, 2004, 09:59 PM
How's it going?

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 10:00 PM
:shut:

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Turbo

How's it going? Good.

But sorta boring.

AROTO
January 17th, 2004, 10:00 PM
Who is a better player, Peter Forsberg or Joe Sakic?

ebenz47037
January 17th, 2004, 10:01 PM
How's the weather in Denver tonight? :)

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

Who is a better player, Peter Forsberg or Joe Sakic? Foresburg.

But not by much.

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

How's the weather in Denver tonight? :) Not sure.... I am in Dallas. :(

AROTO
January 17th, 2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Not sure.... I am in Dallas. :(

Clear sky, temp in the 40's thought I might help.

Is spanking a good thing or a bad thing?

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

Clear sky, temp in the 40's thought I might help.

Is spanking a good thing or a bad thing? It depends on who you are spanking and why. :D

Berean Todd
January 17th, 2004, 10:07 PM
Since, I like so many of you Open Theists, including you Knight, I have tried to back out of the OT/OV debates and just keep my peace about that in these parts. But I really am curious your thoughts about 2 scriptures I came across, incidentally in my normal Bible study time, which made me think of the OV debates, and particularly you.

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

The OV claims either that there is no foreknowledge, or that the foreknowledge is only of the possibilities that there are. Yet this passage says that God knew the numbers of our days, before there was yet one of them. Please tell me how you interpret this passage.

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

The existance and formation of nations is dependent on a great number of variables. For one brief illustration, imagine that during D-Day Hitler had not had a brain fart - the allies would have been slaughtered and the Nazi's may well have won. In the least things would have been much different. Yet, this passage says that God has appointed both the times and the boundaries of nations - more than that, it says that He pre appointed them, again something that would seem to indicate a foreknowledge of how those events would turn out. Again, please tell me how you interpret/quantify this passage.

In Christian love,
Todd

SOTK
January 17th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Spanking-

I just recently had a bad experience with this. I still believe in it, but I do think that it's very important to be in control and make sure your son/daughter is not wriggling around before you bring down the belt! :doh:

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Berean Todd

Since, I like so many of you Open Theists, including you Knight, I have tried to back out of the OT/OV debates and just keep my peace about that in these parts. But I really am curious your thoughts about 2 scriptures I came across, incidentally in my normal Bible study time, which made me think of the OV debates, and particularly you.

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

The OV claims either that there is no foreknowledge, or that the foreknowledge is only of the possibilities that there are. Yet this passage says that God knew the numbers of our days, before there was yet one of them. Please tell me how you interpret this passage.

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

The existance and formation of nations is dependent on a great number of variables. For one brief illustration, imagine that during D-Day Hitler had not had a brain fart - the allies would have been slaughtered and the Nazi's may well have won. In the least things would have been much different. Yet, this passage says that God has appointed both the times and the boundaries of nations - more than that, it says that He pre appointed them, again something that would seem to indicate a foreknowledge of how those events would turn out. Again, please tell me how you interpret/quantify this passage.

In Christian love,
Todd Is there a question in there?

AROTO
January 17th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Knight

It depends on who you are spanking and why. :D

I am talking about my children- when they misbehave or talk back etc.

:thumb:

Berean Todd
January 17th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Obviously you did not read the post. Please go back and re-read it. I asked for your interpretation of those passages. I asked that you would show me how they can fit into an Open View theology, in your analysis.

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

I am talking about my children- when they misbehave or talk back etc.

:thumb: :D

Spanking is good!

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Berean Todd

Obviously you did not read the post. Please go back and re-read it. I still do not see a single question mark.
I asked for your interpretation of those passages. I asked that you would show me how they can fit into an Open View theology, in your analysis. I do not need to "fit" verses into my theology.

My theology is "fitted" by the Bible itself.

Berean Todd
January 17th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Knight, why do you have to be such a horses rear whenever anyone disagrees with you on Open Theism? There's a question mark. Here's another one - what's your interpretation of those passages?

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Berean Todd

Knight, why do you have to be such a horses rear whenever anyone disagrees with you on Open Theism? There's a question mark. Here's another one - what's your interpretation of those passages?
:thumb:

AROTO
January 17th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Berean Todd

Knight, why do you have to be such a horses rear whenever anyone disagrees with you on Open Theism? There's a question mark. Here's another one - what's your interpretation of those passages?

Now that is two questions. I for one want to know the answer for the first one about the horses rear!:o

godrulz
January 17th, 2004, 10:40 PM
The verses merit an Open View perspective (assuming the question is sincere and a stumbling block for non-OVers).

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Berean Todd

Knight, why do you have to be such a horses rear whenever anyone disagrees with you on Open Theism? There's a question mark. If being right makes me a horses rear.... than so be it. :p
Here's another one - what's your interpretation of those passages? Acts 17:26 “And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

God made all of us, He made our dwelling places... i.e., earth, heaven and hell - those are our boundaries! Therefore the verse means just what it says!

Furthermore.... the next verse defeats pre-determinism....

Acts 17:27 “so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

In the hope??? God "hopes" that we might grope for Him and find Him! What an awesome verse for the open view - thanks Todd!

In other words... God made us in a way so that we seek Him. It would be illogical for God to want us to seek Him and then predetermine that some would not seek Him.

Next "question"...
Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

Again.... it's always good to read the verse in context.

Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance,

God knows us from the very beginning, and God is telling us through David that He knows us through and through and there is nothing we can hide from Him...

Psalms 139:1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.

Psalms 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.

Therefore explaining...
Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed

And then...
And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

Again God has a plan for all of us, and we should follow it. We have the ability to NOT follow God's ways as we learn in Proverbs 3:5 and Proverbs chapter 16 as you so nicely pointed out to us last week.

God has fashioned our days and God will even direct our steps!

The real question is.... will we follow Him or will we not?

ebenz47037
January 17th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Knight

If being right makes me a horses rear.... than so be it. :p

:darwinsm:

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Knight
If being right makes me a horses rear.... than so be it.


:darwinsm:

It has nothing to do with "right" or wrong!
You so asked for that.

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Tye Porter

:darwinsm:

It has nothing to do with "right" or wrong!
You so asked for that. OooooKaaaayyyy. :kookoo:

rfburnhertz
January 17th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Ya know it's really frustrating sometimes when you ask people seemingly simple questions and you get no response or some long drawn out response that isn't much more than pure obfuscation.

I always try to answer questions asked of me with simple direct answers.



Therefore I give you....

ASK KNIGHT! :knight:

Ask me anyhting you want and I promise to give you a short direct answer.



Is this like a Mrs. Cleo thing?

If so,
will my new born son play forward for the AV's or the Sen's?

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by rfburnhertz

Is this like a Mrs. Cleo thing?

If so,
will my new born son play forward for the AV's or the Sen's? :think: I see.... soccer..... :noid: :nono:

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Knight

:think: I see.... soccer..... :noid: :nono:
Sell the kid off now, Hertz!

rfburnhertz
January 17th, 2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Knight

:think: I see.... soccer..... :noid: :nono:

Soccer...?
Someone shake the magic 8-ball,
it seems to be broken.

brother Willi
January 17th, 2004, 10:59 PM
Knight
How many BTUs worth of furnace do I need to buy to warm it up outside????

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by brother Willi

Knight
How many BTUs worth of furnace do I need to buy to warm it up outside???? That would depend on how cold "outside" is.... and how "warm" you want it to be.

P.S. I don't know. :D

brother Willi
January 17th, 2004, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Knight

That would depend on how cold "outside" is.... and how "warm" you want it to be.

P.S. I don't know. :D :chuckle:

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 11:13 PM
How much would is cost to ban Beobebob?

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Tye Porter

How much would is cost to ban Beobebob? Please step away from the beer slowly. :D

Jefferson
January 17th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Knight:

You have a very unusual last name. How do you spell it? Is it of German origin?

ebenz47037
January 17th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Please step away from the beer slowly. :D

:darwinsm:

Knight
January 17th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Jefferson

Knight:

You have a very unusual last name. How do you spell it? Is it of German origin? It's Norwegian.

Turbo
January 17th, 2004, 11:21 PM
Fhqwhgads?

Servo
January 17th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Knight,
Is Norway better than Sweden?

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Please step away from the beer slowly. :D
:shocked:

Originally posted by Knight

Ya know it's really frustrating sometimes when you ask people seemingly simple questions and you get no response or some long drawn out response that isn't much more than pure obfuscation.

I always try to answer questions asked of me with simple direct answers.

After all... can't you answer the question directly and then go on to provide further explanation if you feel the answer warrants it? Shouldn't a sound world-view and theology be afraid of no question?

Ask me anyhting you want and I promise to give you a short direct answer.

:down:

AROTO
January 17th, 2004, 11:24 PM
Congrats Knight, Your Daughter took 2nd in the all-around competition tonight!!:Princess:

My question is, does she get her talent from her mom or her dad?;)

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

Congrats Knight, Your Daughter took 2nd in the all-around competition tonight!!:Princess:

My question is, does she get her talent from her mom or her dad?;)
Too easy!
It's obvious.

Lucky
January 17th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Knight,

Do you believe in absolute free will or do you not?

I ask this because it seems in some threads you do and then in some threads you don't. I sure wish you'd either make up your mind or answer the question fully in one post with any "ifs, ands, or buts" you add on to answer when the debate requires you to.

godrulz
January 17th, 2004, 11:35 PM
Do you enjoy any other Open Theist authors (who? titles?) or is Pastor Enyart your main influence?

Lucky
January 17th, 2004, 11:40 PM
:darwinsm:

Check out how great Knight is at answering questions:


Hey, I'm interested in learning about the history of TOL. When it was started? Who all started it? Why was it started? How many people (subscribers) have been around since the beginning? Knight, do you actually own TOL?

Knight responds:

:shut:

Servo
January 17th, 2004, 11:41 PM
check out
www.biblicalanswers.com

Sozo
January 17th, 2004, 11:46 PM
I'm standing across the room from Mateo... how many fingers am I holding up?

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 11:46 PM
Seven!

Tye Porter
January 17th, 2004, 11:47 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said that there were seven of us standing across from him! :D

ShadowMaid
January 17th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Knight, I'm having a problem with my user control panel. When I try to use it, it says that the page can't be found. Do you think you could fix that?

SOTK
January 17th, 2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

:darwinsm:

Check out how great Knight is at answering questions:

:shut:

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 04:25 AM
If Tye fell into a vat of boiling acid, would he sink or float?

Zakath
January 18th, 2004, 06:56 AM
If it's not too late to pose a question or two...

1. What are your views on theonomy and Christian Reconstructionism?

2. Do you consider yourself a theonomist and/or a Christian Reconstructionist?

Poly
January 18th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Knight,
It's bad enough that cashiers never count change back but why do they insist on giving you the bills first and then put the coins on top of the bills, only to slide off the bills and onto the floor?

Granite
January 18th, 2004, 09:42 AM
What does Leo have to say to get his virgin worshipping self banned?

Jabez
January 18th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Knight

How about those Red Wings!

Yorzhik
January 18th, 2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Poly

Knight,
It's bad enough that cashiers never count change back but why do they insist on giving you the bills first and then put the coins on top of the bills, only to slide off the bills and onto the floor?
Because that's the way men need it done. You need to get all the change in one hand - bills and coins. And the change has to go in the pocket first before the bills can to into the wallet because you cannot keep the coins in your palm when placing bills in a wallet, but you can keep bills in your palm when sliding coins off bills into your other hand.

Thus, the coins get slid off into the other hand to be place in the pocket. That hand is free to open the wallet to place the bills inside and you're on your way.

It's ME (more efficient).

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Shimei

Knight,
Is Norway better than Sweden? Uh.... yes! :D

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by AROTO

Congrats Knight, Your Daughter took 2nd in the all-around competition tonight!!:Princess:

My question is, does she get her talent from her mom or her dad?;) Mom.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Lucky

Knight,

Do you believe in absolute free will or do you not?

I ask this because it seems in some threads you do and then in some threads you don't. I sure wish you'd either make up your mind or answer the question fully in one post with any "ifs, ands, or buts" you add on to answer when the debate requires you to. What is "absolute free will"?

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by godrulz

Do you enjoy any other Open Theist authors (who? titles?) or is Pastor Enyart your main influence? I really don't read much.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Sozo

I'm standing across the room from Mateo... how many fingers am I holding up? Is that a finger?

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Knight, I'm having a problem with my user control panel. When I try to use it, it says that the page can't be found. Do you think you could fix that? Empty or delete your temporary internet files.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by BillyBob

If Tye fell into a vat of boiling acid, would he sink or float? Float.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Zakath

If it's not too late to pose a question or two...

1. What are your views on theonomy and Christian Reconstructionism?

2. Do you consider yourself a theonomist and/or a Christian Reconstructionist? There are differing views on what and how a theonomy would mean.

But if you are asking did God give us a criminal justice system? YES He did.

Should we be using it? YES we should.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Poly

Knight,
It's bad enough that cashiers never count change back but why do they insist on giving you the bills first and then put the coins on top of the bills, only to slide off the bills and onto the floor? They are dumb.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by granite1010

What does Leo have to say to get his virgin worshipping self banned? Break the TOL rules.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Jabez

Knight

How about those Red Wings! They stink. :D

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Yorzhik

Because that's the way men need it done. You need to get all the change in one hand - bills and coins. And the change has to go in the pocket first before the bills can to into the wallet because you cannot keep the coins in your palm when placing bills in a wallet, but you can keep bills in your palm when sliding coins off bills into your other hand.

Thus, the coins get slid off into the other hand to be place in the pocket. That hand is free to open the wallet to place the bills inside and you're on your way.

It's ME (more efficient). :kookoo:





;)

Lucky
January 18th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Knight

What is "absolute free will"?
I'm sorry but the answer to a question must be in the form of an answer. Please try again. If you need help with definitions, look them up or define the terms within the post using your own definition(s). And once again, thanks for playing Ask Knight!®

Yorzhik
January 18th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Knight

:kookoo:





;) :D

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 12:45 PM
Hey, this is pretty cool!



OK Knight, what is the meaning of life?

One Eyed Jack
January 18th, 2004, 01:52 PM
What planet is Leo Volont from?

Zakath
January 18th, 2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Knight
There are differing views on what and how a theonomy would mean.

But if you are asking did God give us a criminal justice system? YES He did.

Should we be using it? YES we should. A follow-up question, if I may...

Where can one find a copy of this "criminal justice system" as it would be applied today, in your view?

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by BillyBob

Hey, this is pretty cool!



OK Knight, what is the meaning of life? Life is getting to make our own choice about where we will spend eternity.

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

What planet is Leo Volont from? Uranus?


;)

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Zakath

A follow-up question, if I may...

Where can one find a copy of this "criminal justice system" as it would be applied today, in your view? The Bible.

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Uranus?


;)

:shocked:

:darwinsm:

SOTK
January 18th, 2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Uranus?


;)

:darwinsm:

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 06:11 PM
You guys are easily amused. :D

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 06:12 PM
Yep! :chuckle:

Nineveh
January 18th, 2004, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Ya know it's really frustrating sometimes when you ask people seemingly simple questions and you get no response or some long drawn out response that isn't much more than pure obfuscation.

I always try to answer questions asked of me with simple direct answers.

After all... can't you answer the question directly and then go on to provide further explanation if you feel the answer warrants it? Shouldn't a sound world-view and theology be afraid of no question?

Therefore I give you....

ASK KNIGHT! :knight:

Ask me anyhting you want and I promise to give you a short direct answer.

No *topic is "off limits". The openess of God, dispensationalism, conservativism, hockey, whatever!!!

Ask away.... and get the answers you are seeking. :D

*topics that are are inappropriate for TOL are inappropriate for "Ask Knight" as well.

P.S. I will do my best to answer your question in a timely manner. :)

Who could pass up this offer?! :)

1. Is a tenet of OSAS that even if a man's heart turns from God, he is still saved?

2. Is a tenet of OV that God prophesies then "makes come about"?

AROTO
January 18th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Is it wrong for girls to wear two piece bathing suites. :up: :down:

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

Is it wrong for girls to wear two piece bathing suites. :up: :down:

[I'll field this one, Knight.]

It is more wrong for a guy to wear a 2 piece bathing suit! :down:

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by AROTO

Is it wrong for girls to wear two piece bathing suites. :up: :down: Of course not! But it is wrong for boys to wear two piece bathing suits. :shocked:

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Great minds think alike! :D

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by BillyBob

[I'll field this one, Knight.]

It is more wrong for a guy to wear a 2 peice bathing suit! :down: Hey Pal... this is "Ask Knight" not ask :BillyBob:

BillyBob
January 18th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Hey Pal... this is "Ask Knight" not ask :BillyBob:


Just tryin' to help! :chuckle:


And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Sozo
January 18th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Uranus?


;)

Hey... watch the language, buster! :madmad:

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Who could pass up this offer?! :)

1. Is a tenet of OSAS that even if a man's heart turns from God, he is still saved?I can't speak for all "tenets" but yes... those saved under God's dispensation of grace are given an irrevocable inheritance.

2Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
2. Is a tenet of OV that God prophesies then "makes come about"? Some prophesies yes... and some no.

Nineveh
January 18th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I understand sir Knight, thank you. Wow... in only 2 sentences! I feel almost giddy :D

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Sozo

Hey... watch the language, buster! :madmad: :chuckle:

Lucky
January 18th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by BillyBob

Great minds think alike! :D
I disagree.

(my usual response to that saying)

godrulz
January 18th, 2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Knight

I can't speak for all "tenets" but yes... those saved under God's dispensation of grace are given an irrevocable inheritance.

2Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. Some prophesies yes... and some no.

Most Open Theists (writers; theologians) are more in the Arminian camp (conditional eternal security). Knight/Enyart is more Calvinistic on this point only (unconditional eternal security).

back to Mr. Knight...

Knight
January 18th, 2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by godrulz

Most Open Theists (writers; theologians) are more in the Arminian camp (conditional eternal security). Knight/Enyart is more Calvinistic on this point only (unconditional eternal security).

back to Mr. Knight... It's a myth that eternal security is a open view vs. closed view issue.

If God tells those in the Body that they are secure... who can say otherwise?

Romans 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Furthermore... I do not hitch my pony to any human authors no matter what camp they dwell in. :)

godrulz
January 18th, 2004, 09:41 PM
It is not a myth that Arminians do not believe in OSAS. It is not a myth that most OVers are not Calvinistic, but feel they are a subgroup of Arminianism (or are labeled as such).

It is not a myth that you have been influenced by Hill and Enyart (not that that is a bad thing necessarily...we do not live in a vacuum, and there are few original ideas).

OSAS is incompatible with libertarian freedom, and OSAS is usually not held by those who support genuine freedom (as the Open View in principle does; remember, bro., we are the heretics who do not believe in exhaustive foreknowledge...including one's final destiny before it is sealed by death or His coming...or so I thought...'names were erased from the book of life'...I heard us argue on TOL). It seems to me that this is an incompatible inconsistency to rightly believe in Open Theism and yet support the Calvinistic OSAS (think it through, my friend). The Enyart camp may be an anomoly and outside the majority view of Open Theists (A Pentecostal Open Theist has fewer ideas to change than a former Calvinistic Open Theist who may try to have a syncretistic compromise...which leads to more problems than it solves).

But that's just me:angel:

godrulz
January 18th, 2004, 10:26 PM
What are the RULES for TOL use (where are they)?

Why are the Mormons like KD given free reign here on an evangelical board?

godrulz
January 18th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Knight

I really don't read much.


Is it not possible to have misconceptions if we do not balance our understandings with critics or those of like mind? Your Open Theism view may be too narrow and overly influenced by Hill/Enyart and not stand up to scrutiny from more rounded Open Theists who interact with substantial pro/con arguments.

The Bible is our ultimate source, but iron sharpens iron in the academic community. It is important to look at information from all sides to refine and strengthen our views, lest we become myopic (short-sighted). Since our shared Open View has philosophical elements, it is simplisitic to say: "Its me, Jesus, and the Bible."

This is like saying the KJV was good enough for Paul, so it is good enough for me.:doh:

Christine
January 19th, 2004, 05:48 AM
Knight, I have a couple questions. What is Open Theism? Are Open Theism and Open View the same thing?

servent101
January 19th, 2004, 07:57 AM
How are things in Mexico?

With Christ's Love

Servent101

Zakath
January 19th, 2004, 08:13 AM
Does "God's Criminal Justice System™" supercede current U.S. and state laws?

Knight
January 19th, 2004, 09:21 AM
Its a travel day for me..... :car: Talk with ya soon!

If ya just can't wait I suggest.... "Ask Turbo". :D

Knight
January 19th, 2004, 09:21 AM
Or.... "Ask Poly". :Poly:

BillyBob
January 19th, 2004, 09:26 AM
And all of your beer related questions will be fielded by :BillyBob:

Zakath
January 19th, 2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by BillyBob

And all of your beer related questions will be fielded by :BillyBob: Wonderful! :D Now I can ask questions like:

"How do they get that widget into those Guinness Draft cans?

Where do the calories go in "lite" beer?

Why do they call the plastic rings that hold a six-pack together a "zorch"?

How come Zakath's smilely never has to use the men's room?
:freak:

Sozo
January 19th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Zakath


How come Zakath's smilely never has to use the men's room?
:freak:

:zakath: That's why he wears really big shoes! :D

BillyBob
January 19th, 2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Zakath

Wonderful! :D Now I can ask questions like:

"How do they get that widget into those Guinness Draft cans?

I don't like draft beer. [what's a widget????]



Where do the calories go in "lite" beer?

Same as the calories in regular beer, right to the waistline!



Why do they call the plastic rings that hold a six-pack together a "zorch"?

They do? I always just called them 'the plastic rings that hold a six-pack together'.



How come Zakath's smiley never has to use the men's room?
:freak:

Because all he has is a head, he seems to be missing the essential 'men's room' anatomy! :shocked:

Tye Porter
January 19th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Sozo

:zakath: That's why he wears really big shoes! :D
the Zakath smiley without the clown makeup on.
He's an Alien!!!?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Zakath

Does "God's Criminal Justice System™" supercede current U.S. and state laws? :confused:

God's criminal justice system is what we SHOULD be instituting and enforcing. God's criminal justice system is how a righteous country would govern.

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by servent101

How are things in Mexico?

With Christ's Love

Servent101 I don't know.... I have never been to Mexico.

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Knight, I have a couple questions. What is Open Theism? Are Open Theism and Open View the same thing? Good question(s).

QUESTION #1
Open Theism is the view that the future is not entirely "set" by God's ordination or by God's exhaustive foreknowledge. I.e., the future is open to the extent God has allowed.

Open theism is a view that God chose to create man with a true freewill. A will that may or may not be in accordance with God's will.

QUESTION #2
The Open View and Open Theism are the same thing.

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by godrulz

It is not a myth that Arminians do not believe in OSAS. It is not a myth that most OVers are not Calvinistic, but feel they are a subgroup of Arminianism (or are labeled as such).

It is not a myth that you have been influenced by Hill and Enyart (not that that is a bad thing necessarily...we do not live in a vacuum, and there are few original ideas).

OSAS is incompatible with libertarian freedom, and OSAS is usually not held by those who support genuine freedom (as the Open View in principle does; remember, bro., we are the heretics who do not believe in exhaustive foreknowledge...including one's final destiny before it is sealed by death or His coming...or so I thought...'names were erased from the book of life'...I heard us argue on TOL). It seems to me that this is an incompatible inconsistency to rightly believe in Open Theism and yet support the Calvinistic OSAS (think it through, my friend). The Enyart camp may be an anomoly and outside the majority view of Open Theists (A Pentecostal Open Theist has fewer ideas to change than a former Calvinistic Open Theist who may try to have a syncretistic compromise...which leads to more problems than it solves).

But that's just me:angel: HUH?? :confused: I think you have pretty much misrepresented my point.

Again... The open view and OSAS are not intrinsically related.

Em7add11
January 21st, 2004, 01:45 PM
What is the limit of sin(x)/x as x goes to 0?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Em7add11

What is the limit of sin(x)/x as x goes to 0? Pickle?

But that is just a guess. :D

Christine
January 21st, 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Good question(s).

QUESTION #1
Open Theism is the view that the future is not entirely "set" by God's ordination or by God's exhaustive foreknowledge. I.e., the future is open to the extent God has allowed.

Open theism is a view that God chose to create man with a true freewill. A will that may or may not be in accordance with God's will.
Ok. In that case I have another question. What exactly do you mean by "true freewill?" Do you mean that man, not God, decides if they want to be Christians? (by this I mean not pre-destined in the Calvinistic sense of the word.) :confused: If yes, do you think God knows what they will choose, even if he doesn't influence them?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Ok. In that case I have another question. What exactly do you mean by "true freewill?" Do you mean that man, not God, decides if they want to be Christians? (by this I mean not pre-destined in the Calvinistic sense of the word.) :confused: If yes, do you think God knows what they will choose, even if he doesn't influence them? By "true freewill" I mean a will that is not ordained either through direct ordination or through God's foreknowledge.

God influences all men in that He draws them to Him. He pull's at them through various means i.e., truth, evidence, etc etc....

Yet He doesn't actually make that eternal choice for them. That way... if they choose Him, it is a true choice and God and man can have a real two way relationship. Furthermore.... if men DO NOT choose Him they are truly responsible for their own choice.

Christine
January 21st, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Knight

By "true freewill" I mean a will that is not ordained either through direct ordination or through God's foreknowledge.

God influences all men in that He draws them to Him. He pull's at them through various means i.e., truth, evidence, etc etc....

Yet He doesn't actually make that eternal choice for them. That way... if they choose Him, it is a true choice and God and man can have a real two way relationship. Furthermore.... if men DO NOT choose Him they are truly responsible for their own choice.
Ok I think I'm beginning to understand. Do you think God knows who will get saved? (I don't mean predestination) Before man decides to get saved, do you think God knows what their decision will be?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Ok I think I'm beginning to understand. Do you think God knows who will get saved? (I don't mean predestination) Before man decides to get saved, do you think God knows what their decision will be? Before they exist?

ShadowMaid
January 21st, 2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Empty or delete your temporary internet files.

Internet files, you mean bookmarks?

ShadowMaid
January 21st, 2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Of course not!

Why? You sound as if it's the obvious. I don't believe that girls should wear 2 piece suits.

BillyBob
January 21st, 2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Why? You sound as if it's the obvious. I don't believe that girls should wear 2 piece suits.


That depends on a few variables such as.....oh....I don't know...
A NICE FIGURE!

If you're shaped like a cannonball, I prefer not to see you in any bathing suit!

Turbo
January 21st, 2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Internet files, you mean bookmarks? [Filling in a little since Knight is offline.]


No. On Internet Explorer, from the Tools menu (up by File and Edit) choose "Internet Options." Then from the "Temporary internet files" section, choose "Delete files."

If you're using Netscape or something, the process is similar, but I don't know the exact details.

You can also go to the folder where the files are stored and delete them that way.


What operating system/browser are you using?

Christine
January 21st, 2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Before they exist?
Yes. On seeing this question, I'm curious about the OV'ers interpertation of God's all knowing power.


(I really don't know much about what the OV'ers believe. I have been curious about their beliefs for a while though.)

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Internet files, you mean bookmarks? No, I mean temporary internet files.... also called "cache".

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Why? You sound as if it's the obvious. I don't believe that girls should wear 2 piece suits. It is obvious.

There is nothing inherently wrong with two piece bathing suits.

On the other hand..... there is something inherently wrong with speedo trunks on men. :shocked:

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Yes.Then the answer is "no". God sovereignly chose to create man in a way where man could make his own eternal choice without God's coercion.


On seeing this question, I'm curious about the OV'ers interpertation of God's all knowing power.God knows everything He chooses to know which is knowable.

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by BillyBob

That depends on a few variables such as.....oh....I don't know...
A NICE FIGURE!

If you're shaped like a cannonball, I prefer not to see you in any bathing suit! Isn't "ask BillyBob" located elsewhere?

BillyBob
January 21st, 2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Isn't "ask BillyBob" located elsewhere?


Hey, it's a slow night.......:D

Yorzhik
January 21st, 2004, 09:44 PM
We have Konqueror and Firebird for browsers running on Linux. I can take care of this as soon as I have a chance. However, I'm not sure cleaning out the cache will fix the problem. I'll look into that as well (everything seems to work fine for me).

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Yorzhik

We have Konqueror and Firebird for browsers running on Linux. I can take care of this as soon as I have a chance. However, I'm not sure cleaning out the cache will fix the problem. I'll look into that as well (everything seems to work fine for me). Since you didn't have this problem before our TOL alteration it really sounds like a cache problem. Caused mainly because we changed some directory names at TOL.

Yorzhik
January 21st, 2004, 09:51 PM
Okay.

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:53 PM
Come on folks... this is your chance to get straight truth with no obfuscation.

You ask... I will answer.

Poly
January 21st, 2004, 09:55 PM
Why do people continually think we shouldn't judge?

Lucky
January 21st, 2004, 09:58 PM
Who killed Kenny? And where did that saying come from anyways?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:58 PM
Because they are hypocrites.

Great question. :Poly:

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Who killed Kenny? And where did that saying come from anyways? Pickle?

But that is just a guess.

Poly
January 21st, 2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Pickle?

But that is just a guess.
Hmmm.. never thought of it that way. :think:

Lucky
January 21st, 2004, 10:04 PM
What does "Pickle?" mean?

Knight
January 21st, 2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

What does "Pickle?" mean? pickle

\Pic"kle\, n. [Cf. D. pekel. Probably a dim. fr. Pick, v. t., alluding to the cleaning of the fish.] 1. (a) A solution of salt and water, in which fish, meat, etc., may be preserved or corned; brine. (b) Vinegar, plain or spiced, used for preserving vegetables, fish, eggs, oysters, etc.

2. Any article of food which has been preserved in brine or in vinegar.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

pickle

Picke \Pi"cke\, n. [Prob. fr. pightel or pingle.] A small piece of land inclosed with a hedge; a close. [Obs.] [Written also pickle.]

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

pickle

\Pic"kle\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Pickled; p. pr. & vb. n. Pickling.] 1. To preserve or season in pickle; to treat with some kind of pickle; as, to pickle herrings or cucumbers.

2. To give an antique appearance to; -- said of copies or imitations of paintings by the old masters.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

pickle

n 1: vegetables (especially cucumbers) preserved in brine or vinegar 2: informal terms for a difficult situation; "he got into a terrible fix"; "he made a muddle of his marriage" [syn: fix, hole, jam, mess, muddle, kettle of fish] v : preserve in a pickling liquid; as of vegetables

Poly
January 21st, 2004, 10:09 PM
Knight, where's crow? :confused:

Greywolf
January 21st, 2004, 10:10 PM
Paper or plastic?

Yorzhik
January 22nd, 2004, 12:39 AM
Knight. About the user control. I am able to get to the user control by clicking on [profile] (which is on the top of every page), and I can see the URL for the user control, but when I push the "go" button and go straight to the user control from the drop-down-list-box (on the control panel page itself... where else is that drop-down-list-box?), I get the error:
The requested URL /forumdisplay.php was not found on this server.

I'm figuring that is one of the directories that changed. You might want to check how that drop-down-list-box is set up.

Yorzhik
January 22nd, 2004, 12:44 AM
Oh, and a question.

Since belief in God is more logical than atheism, why is the logical approach to evangalism so much less effective than the emotional approach?

godrulz
January 22nd, 2004, 12:49 AM
Knight is a genuine believer.

Is it theoretically (though unlikely) possible for you to become apostate and reject God in the future before you die and remain in that state?

If not, why not in light of genuine free will? Does God then coerce believer's wills after they are saved, but not before?

If you cannot possibly fall away, then God has exhaustive foreknowledge of free moral choices (contrary to a tenet of Open Theism).

Is salvation a love relationship that must be freely entered into and maintained (realm of morals), or is it primarily an irreversible physical change (literal regeneration) in our constitution (realm of things, substance= meataphysics)?

Is OSAS really compatible with Open Theism, or is it more a sequelae of predestination (Calvinism) or exhaustive foreknowledge (Arminianism, kind of...)?

Christine
January 22nd, 2004, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by Knight

Then the answer is "no". God sovereignly chose to create man in a way where man could make his own eternal choice without God's coercion.

God knows everything He chooses to know which is knowable.
Thanks Knight. :) I think I understand. Could you give me a couple of Bible verses to support this?

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Poly

Knight, where's crow? :confused: :( TOL is not the same without her!

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Greywolf

Paper or plastic? Plastic.

I can carry almost all the groceries in at once with plastic. :)

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Yorzhik

Knight. About the user control. I am able to get to the user control by clicking on [profile] (which is on the top of every page), and I can see the URL for the user control, but when I push the "go" button and go straight to the user control from the drop-down-list-box (on the control panel page itself... where else is that drop-down-list-box?), I get the error:

I'm figuring that is one of the directories that changed. You might want to check how that drop-down-list-box is set up. Yea... your right... I will look into that.

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by godrulz

Knight is a genuine believer.

Is it theoretically (though unlikely) possible for you to become apostate and reject God in the future before you die and remain in that state?Yes that is possible.

Yet God has given the Body an irrevocable gift which separates the dispensation of the uncircumcision from the works plus faith based dispensation of the circumcision.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

You continue...
Is OSAS really compatible with Open Theism, or is it more a sequelae of predestination (Calvinism) or exhaustive foreknowledge (Arminianism, kind of...)? As I have explained above you were misunderstanding the open view position as far as OSAS is concerned.

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Christine

Thanks Knight. :) I think I understand. Could you give me a couple of Bible verses to support this? A couple? How about the entire message of the Bible?

Isn't the purpose of God's word to let man know that God is real and man should choose Him? If that isn't the purpose of the Bible I would like to know what is.

2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

And what instruction does God repeatedly tell man?

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

Basically God desires that man choose Him.

Joshua 24:15 “And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

Jabez
January 22nd, 2004, 12:03 PM
Whos your Hockey team knight?You know mine...Go Wings!

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Whos your Hockey team knight?You know mine...Go Wings! May God have mercy on your soul. ;)

As far as me and my family.....

godrulz
January 22nd, 2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Yes that is possible.

Yet God has given the Body an irrevocable gift which separates the dispensation of the uncircumcision from the works plus faith based dispensation of the circumcision.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

You continue... As I have explained above you were misunderstanding the open view position as far as OSAS is concerned.

I thought you were in the new dispensation of the uncircumcision, so for you, by your logic, it should be impossible (a NO answer) to turn your back. Free will, coercion, salvation principles are fundamental and not arbitrary.

Jabez
January 22nd, 2004, 12:22 PM
Knight you remember that game(blood bath)between Red Wings and Colorado Avalanche?They were selling tapes in Hockey Town!Osgood and Roy that was awsome you must admit!

Lucky
January 22nd, 2004, 12:23 PM
What time is it?

Sozo
January 22nd, 2004, 12:26 PM
Are there free-will choices in life that are not reversible?

Servo
January 22nd, 2004, 12:51 PM
Knight,
I am a Christian who threw an aluminum can away in a "not recycled" trash bin.

Am I going to Hell?

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by godrulz

I thought you were in the new dispensation of the uncircumcision, so for you, by your logic, it should be impossible (a NO answer) to turn your back. Free will, coercion, salvation principles are fundamental and not arbitrary. Your not reading my responses.

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Knight you remember that game(blood bath)between Red Wings and Colorado Avalanche?They were selling tapes in Hockey Town!Osgood and Roy that was awsome you must admit! Why would people in "hockey-town" want to buy tapes of Roy kicking Osgoods butt?

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

What time is it? Currently it's 12:57pm MDT.

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Sozo

Are there free-will choices in life that are not reversible? Absolutely!

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Shimei

Knight,
I am a Christian who threw an aluminum can away in a "not recycled" trash bin.

Am I going to Hell? If you live in Boulder then you are doomed. :D

Servo
January 22nd, 2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Knight

If you live in Boulder then you are doomed. :D

So Boulder is where the bad people go?

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Shimei

So Boulder is where the bad people go? As far as I can tell. :D

ShadowMaid
January 22nd, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Knight

No, I mean temporary internet files.... also called "cache".

Umm... sorry, you lost me. I'll have to ask Dad.

Jabez
January 22nd, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Why would people in "hockey-town" want to buy tapes of Roy kicking Osgoods butt?

lol you know who won than fight,just ask darren mc carty.Anyways it was awsome,probably one of the best fights ever it involved many.

ShadowMaid
January 22nd, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Knight

It is obvious.

There is nothing inherently wrong with two piece bathing suits.

On the other hand..... there is something inherently wrong with speedo trunks on men. :shocked:


O......K.......

Knight
January 22nd, 2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

lol you know who won than fight,just ask darren mc carty.Anyways it was awsome,probably one of the best fights ever it involved many. Roy vs. Vernon was a close fight, but there was no doubt that Roy kicked Osgoods butt - it wasn't even close!

Christine
January 23rd, 2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Knight

A couple? How about the entire message of the Bible?

Isn't the purpose of God's word to let man know that God is real and man should choose Him? If that isn't the purpose of the Bible I would like to know what is.

2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

And what instruction does God repeatedly tell man?

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

Basically God desires that man choose Him.

Joshua 24:15 “And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
Knight, I have no problem accepting the fact that man has a free-will to choose whether or not to accept Christ. However, I would like scriptural support to back up the fact that God doesn't know who is and who isn't going to choose to get saved.:)

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Knight, I have no problem accepting the fact that man has a free-will to choose whether or not to accept Christ. However, I would like scriptural support to back up the fact that God doesn't know who is and who isn't going to choose to get saved.:) Let's start here...

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Furthermore... IF God already knows who is saved prior to their exisence THEN the future is set for all of mankind and their choices.

IF God knows that John Doe will be born, live and die without accepting Christ and ultimately roast in hell foir eternity) THEN John Doe's eternal existence has already been set for Him by God's foreknowledge.

John Doe cannot choose God because John Doe is destine (by God's foreknowledge) to NOT choose God. The idea that John Doe CANNOT choose God flies in the face of the entire message of the Bible.

Christine
January 23rd, 2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Let's start here...

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Furthermore... IF God already knows who is saved prior to their exisence THEN the future is set for all of mankind and their choices.

IF God knows that John Doe will be born, live and die without accepting Christ and ultimately roast in hell foir eternity) THEN John Doe's eternal existence has already been set for Him by God's foreknowledge.

John Doe cannot choose God because John Doe is destine (by God's foreknowledge) to NOT choose God. The idea that John Doe CANNOT choose God flies in the face of the entire message of the Bible.
Knight,
I see how John 3:16 teaches free-will but I do not see how this verse affects whether or not God knows who is and who isn't going to get saved. I have always believed that man has free-will to accept or reject Christ, but I also believe that because of God's omniscient power, He knows everything past, present, and future including who will and who won't get saved. BTW, what I believe is not the same as the Calvinistic predestination.

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Furthermore... IF God already knows who is saved prior to their exisence THEN the future is set for all of mankind and their choices.
Why does the "IF" require to have the "THEN"?

Jabez
January 23rd, 2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Roy vs. Vernon was a close fight, but there was no doubt that Roy kicked Osgoods butt - it wasn't even close!

Your right i forgot about vernon.Now who had the best team ever assembled?My vote goes to the 2002 Stanley Cup Champs!You will have a hard time finding a better team with more hall-of-famers.I can see Colorado vs Detroit for the trip this year.

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Christine
He knows everything past, present, and future including who will and who won't get saved. BTW, what I believe is not the same as the Calvinistic predestination. The only difference between Calvinistic predestination and Arminian predesination is the mechanism of predestination.

In one... God predestines through direct ordination.
In the other... God predestines through His exhaustive foreknowledge.

Tell me... If God already knows prior to John Does birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge?

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Why does the "IF" require to have the "THEN"? The "THEN" is the logical and necessarily conclusion to the "IF".

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Knight

The "THEN" is the logical and necessarily conclusion to the "IF".
So can faith override logic?

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Your right i forgot about vernon.Now who had the best team ever assembled?My vote goes to the 2002 Stanley Cup Champs!You will have a hard time finding a better team with more hall-of-famers.I can see Colorado vs Detroit for the trip this year. You mean in recent history???

I think its obvious that the 2001 Av's team was the best team in recent history.... Ray Bourque, Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Peter Foresburg, Joe Sakic, Milan Hejduck, Alex Tanguay, Chris Drury and Patty Roy!!!

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

So can faith override logic? Why would you want it to?

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Why would you want it to?
It may seem dangerous according to human logic to walk by faith and not by sight, but I think it's safer to walk by faith. I wasn't saved by grace through logic, but by grace through faith. I guess I consider faith to be more important.

Jabez
January 23rd, 2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Knight

You mean in recent history???

I think its obvious that the 2001 Av's team was the best team in recent history.... Ray Bourque, Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Peter Foresburg, Joe Sakic, Milan Hejduck, Alex Tanguay, Chris Drury and Patty Roy!!!

Ya recent history.2001 Avs were awsome no doubt but the 2002 Wings were equally as good.Steve Yzerman,Brendan Shanahan,Brett Hull,Chris Chelios,Domink Hasek,Darren MCcarty,Kirk Maltby, Tomas Holmstrom ,Kris Draper,Sergei Fedorov,Luc Robitaille,Steve Duchesne ,Nicklas Lidstrom

Whos your favorite Defensive guy?Mine is Vladimir Konstantinov

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

It may seem dangerous according to human logic to walk by faith and not by sight, but I think it's safer to walk by faith. I wasn't saved by grace through logic, but by grace through faith. I guess I consider faith to be more important. God NEVER asks us to use BLIND faith.

"Faith" and "Blind faith" are two different things.

For instance... I have "faith" that my car will start the next time I sit in it and turn the key. This isn't blind faith but faith based on the evidence that my car has been starting regularly for several years now when I put the key in and turn it.

Blind faith would be thinking that I could randomly pick a junkyard and then randomly pick a car in that junkyard, stick my key in the ignition and expect the car to start.

God never asks us to use blind faith.

God tells us that faith is....
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1

Our faith in God is not blind but made from the evidence, the substance of what we cannot see coupled with His word for instruction and reproof.

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Ya recent history.2001 Avs were awsome no doubt but the 2002 Wings were equally as good.Steve Yzerman,Brendan Shanahan,Brett Hull,Chris Chelios,Domink Hasek,Darren MCcarty,Kirk Maltby, Tomas Holmstrom ,Kris Draper,Sergei Fedorov,Luc Robitaille,Steve Duchesne ,Nicklas Lidstrom

Whos your favorite Defensive guy?Mine is Vladimir Konstantinov When you place Darren McCarty in any list you instantly lose credibility. ;)

Jabez
January 23rd, 2004, 04:42 PM
lol i had too he was part of the grind line.Remember the Russian 5?Now that was awsome.

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

lol i had too he was part of the grind line.Remember the Russian 5?Now that was awsome. Feb 5th I have 4th row tickets to the Av's vs. Red Wings game at Pepsi Center. :up:

theEndisNear
January 23rd, 2004, 05:18 PM
Knight, do you think my Yankees are bad for baseball?

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by theEndisNear

Knight, do you think my Yankees are bad for baseball? no.

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 05:23 PM
I hope that answer wasn't to "drawn out". :D

theEndisNear
January 23rd, 2004, 05:29 PM
it was pretty close to bein drawn out but you did a good job and kept it from doing so! kudos!

Christine
January 23rd, 2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Knight

The only difference between Calvinistic predestination and Arminian predesination is the mechanism of predestination.

In one... God predestines through direct ordination.
In the other... God predestines through His exhaustive foreknowledge.

Tell me... If God already knows prior to John Does birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge?
Hmmm Good question. I'll get back with you, I want to think about it some. :)

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Knight

God tells us that faith is....
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Correct. So why are you telling me that faith is the evidence of things seen?

Knight
January 23rd, 2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Correct. So why are you telling me that faith is the evidence of things seen? I didn't. And I even gave you a clear example of my point. :(

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Knight

I didn't. And I even gave you a clear example of my point. :(
But it wasn't even logical! :hammer:

Lucky
January 23rd, 2004, 09:58 PM
God NEVER asks us to use BLIND faith.
So faith is supposed to be based on sight?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
It appears to me the verse you provided goes against your opinion.

Jabez
January 24th, 2004, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Knight

Feb 5th I have 4th row tickets to the Av's vs. Red Wings game at Pepsi Center. :up:

Excellent!I expect a full report...:)

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Lucky

So faith is supposed to be based on sight?No. As I already stated... our faith should be based on evidence as God so clearly states.


It appears to me the verse you provided goes against your opinion. No, I merely repeated the verse therefore the verse says exactly what I have stated.

servent101
January 26th, 2004, 11:53 AM
What are things like in Mexico for Christian missionaries - it is important for me to find some information - someone I know is going there soon.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by servent101

What are things like in Mexico for Christian missionaries - it is important for me to find some information - someone I know is going there soon.

With Christ's Love

Servent101 I am sorry... but I really don't know.

servent101
January 26th, 2004, 12:08 PM
Knight
I am sorry... but I really don't know.

Well you did not break your promise –
Ask me anything you want and I promise to give you a short direct answer.
Ask away.... and get the answers you are seeking.

But you did not keep your promise either – no demerits no brownie points either

Take your time Knight – possibly you can find out from someone with just a little effort – I really don’t know where to start

With Christ’s Love

Servent101

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by servent101

Knight

Well you did not break your promise –

But you did not keep your promise either – no demerits no brownie points either

Take your time Knight – possibly you can find out from someone with just a little effort – I really don’t know where to start

With Christ’s Love

Servent101 :D... this thread isn't designed to be a place where I go and do everyone's homework.

This thread is designed to prove that if you are confident in your world view you should be able to answer any questions presented to you with short direct answers. Fair enough?

Lucky
January 26th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Do you regret making this thread, yet? :p

servent101
January 26th, 2004, 12:17 PM
Knight
This thread is designed to prove that if you are confident in your world view you should be able to answer any questions presented to you with short direct answers. Fair enough?

Almost fair enough - but if you claim to be confident in your "worldview" then you would be confident in the calling that Jesus called you too - Love one another as I have loved you - the greatest will be the servant of all - so I gave you opportunity to do a service - and you declined - how does that make you confident in your world view? or in your relationship with Christ?

With Christ's Love

Servent101

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Do you regret making this thread, yet? :p No. Do you regret posting in it? :)

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by servent101

Knight

Almost fair enough - but if you claim to be confident in your "worldview" then you would be confident in the calling that Jesus called you too - Love one another as I have loved you - the greatest will be the servant of all - so I gave you opportunity to do a service - and you declined - how does that make you confident in your world view? or in your relationship with Christ?

With Christ's Love

Servent101 Oh brother... give me a break will ya?

Now I think I have heard it all.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to be nice to you. :rolleyes:

Lucky
January 26th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Knight

No. Do you regret posting in it? :)
Is this the Ask Lucky thread?

Or is this that questions only thread?

Or is Batman really cooler than Superman?

:think:

Turbo
January 26th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Or is Batman really cooler than Superman? I think I asked that in "This or That" a while back.

servent101
January 26th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Knight - the question asked by Lucky is if Batman is Cooler than Superman - don't let us confuse you.

And the question I asked you
how does that make you confident in your world view? or in your relationship with Christ?
was not answered - keep your perfect record - or not - it is up to you.


With Christ's Love

Servent101

Servo
January 26th, 2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by servent101

Knight

Almost fair enough - but if you claim to be confident in your "worldview" then you would be confident in the calling that Jesus called you too - Love one another as I have loved you - the greatest will be the servant of all - so I gave you opportunity to do a service - and you declined - how does that make you confident in your world view? or in your relationship with Christ?

With Christ's Love

Servent101
:kookoo:

Servo
January 26th, 2004, 12:31 PM
Knight,

Is BillyBob a Christian?

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Shimei

Knight,

Is BillyBob a Christian? :D LOL... I wish he were!

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by servent101

Knight - the question asked by Lucky is if Batman is Cooler than Superman - don't let us confuse you.

And the question I asked you
was not answered - keep your perfect record - or not - it is up to you.


With Christ's Love

Servent101 You don't make any sense.... if you want to ask a question do so in a manner that makes sense.

Knight
January 26th, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Is this the Ask Lucky thread?

Or is this that questions only thread?

Or is Batman really cooler than Superman?

:think: Batman is WAY cooler than Superman.

Turbo
January 26th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Batman is WAY cooler than Superman. Another correct answer! :up:

Lucky
January 26th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Batman is WAY cooler than Superman.
:shake: Some things (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10243) never change. :chuckle:

Sozo
January 26th, 2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Batman is WAY cooler than Superman. :thumb:

Jabez
January 26th, 2004, 01:32 PM
Goku is the best!!!

Christine
January 27th, 2004, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Knight

The only difference between Calvinistic predestination and Arminian predesination is the mechanism of predestination.

In one... God predestines through direct ordination.
In the other... God predestines through His exhaustive foreknowledge.

Tell me... If God already knows prior to John Does birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge?
Hmmm. While I don't know what to say concerning your question, I have found a verse, that was written to the church, that says that God "Chose us in him before the foundation of the world...." (Ephesians 1:4 ) To me, this appears to be saying that God knew who would get saved, even "before the foundation of the earth."

Zakath
January 27th, 2004, 09:15 AM
Knight,

Is ShadowGov/BEL still planning to publish "God's Criminal Justice System" in electronic format? If so, do you have a tentative publication date?

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Zakath

Knight,

Is ShadowGov/BEL still planning to publish "God's Criminal Justice System" in electronic format? If so, do you have a tentative publication date? I am not sure.

I haven't asked Bob about that.

Zakath
January 27th, 2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Knight

I am not sure.

I haven't asked Bob about that. Would you, please since you'll more likely see him than I will? :)

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Hmmm. While I don't know what to say concerning your question, I have found a verse, that was written to the church, that says that God "Chose us in him before the foundation of the world...." (Ephesians 1:4 ) To me, this appears to be saying that God knew who would get saved, even "before the foundation of the earth." Christine.... you are misinterpreting that verse.

The verse doesn't claim that God chose us individually before the foundation of the world but chose that those that were in the Body would be Holy and blameless before the Lord.

God has predestined that any who enter the Body will obtain the inheritance.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth — in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It's pretty clear that God is telling us that after we believe we are then sealed and therefore predestined to adoption.

Furthermore...
Weren't you asserting that God gave man freewill yet knew what man would choose? I am pretty sure you were. So why would you now argue that God selected individuals for salvation? (As evidenced by the question I had asked you earlier.... and will re-ask you below)

Lasty...
I am disappointed you will not attempt too answer my question. There is nothing wrong with just giving it a shot.

Maybe think about it a little more and give it a shot....

If God already knows prior to John Doe's birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge?

Jabez
January 27th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Whats the odds on the Feb 5th games between The AVs and the wings?

Lucky
January 27th, 2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Whats the odds on the Feb 5th games between The AVs and the wings?
Didn't you hear? He said no foreknowledge!

:D

Jabez
January 27th, 2004, 12:19 PM
I would almost bet knight says Avs!I just playing anyways.Wings by 2!lol

the Sibbie
January 27th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Knight
If God already knows prior to John Does birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge? Knight, I'm jumping in on the middle of things, but the wording of your question seems a little confusing....especially the "Does birth that...."

Lucky
January 27th, 2004, 12:20 PM
Look out it's the Sibbie Spellchecker and Grammarchecker patrol!

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Whats the odds on the Feb 5th games between The AVs and the wings? The odds are overwhelming that the game will indeed take place.

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Sibbie

Knight, I'm jumping in on the middle of things, but the wording of your question seems a little confusing....especially the "Does birth that...." Yea... Doe was a poor choice of last names. :D

Jabez
January 27th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Knight

The odds are overwhelming that the game will indeed take place.

Ill take a peice of that!lol You know iam just rouseing ya.Catch me a puck when your there..:)

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Ill take a peice of that!lol You know iam just rouseing ya.Catch me a puck when your there..:) :D :up:

the Sibbie
January 27th, 2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Look out it's the Sibbie Spellchecker and Grammarchecker patrol! :sibbie: :sibbie: :sibbie: :sibbie: :sibbie: :sibbie:

the Sibbie
January 27th, 2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Yea... Doe was a poor choice of last names. :D :chuckle: ok...oops...now I see the... Does is missing an apostrophe. :doh: I thought you were starting a new sentence!

Knight
January 27th, 2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Sibbie

:chuckle: ok...oops...now I see the... Does is missing an apostrophe. :doh: I thought you were starting a new sentence! Is this better....

If God already knows prior to John Doe's birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge?

the Sibbie
January 27th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Is this better....

If God already knows prior to John Doe's birth that John Doe will live and die without choosing Christ... does John Doe have the freewill to thwart God's foreknowledge? Oh, man! It's sad to know that a simple little apostrophe really throws me for a loop! :nono:

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 06:15 PM
Bump. :knight:

Jabez
January 28th, 2004, 06:16 PM
Whatch Hockey or Idol tonight?

Sozo
January 28th, 2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Bump. :knight:

Did you hit your head?

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

Whatch Hockey or Idol tonight? Tape Idol... watch my sons play hockey. :)

Jabez
January 28th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Tape Idol... watch my sons play hockey. :)

Thats a big :thumb:

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Christine.... when you get a chance.... tell me what you think of my last response (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=446858#post446858) to you. :)

Lucky
January 28th, 2004, 06:50 PM
Do you ever get tired of debating idiots like me?

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Do you ever get tired of debating idiots like me? Only when you are being obtuse.

Otherwise.... no.

BChristianK
January 28th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Knight,

If baptism isn’t for this dispensation, why did Paul baptize the Philippian jailer and his household?

Grace and Peace

Christine
January 28th, 2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Christine.... when you get a chance.... tell me what you think of my last response (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=446858#post446858) to you. :)
Sure thing Knight :up: . I've read it, but I have not had a chance to respond to it yet.

Jabez
January 28th, 2004, 09:51 PM
How did them boys do tonight?

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Jabez

How did them boys do tonight? Actually I am at the rink right now watching my youngest practice.

No games tonight - just practice.

Knight
January 28th, 2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Sure thing Knight :up: . I've read it, but I have not had a chance to respond to it yet. Fair enough! :up:

wholearmor
January 28th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Knight, are we locals ever going to get together like we talked about in July?