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CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:07 PM
Christianity and Judaism divided

Who from within has the authority to divide those in Christianity and Judaism? And by what doctrines are we divided by?

Nick M
April 27th, 2016, 12:28 PM
Christianity and Judaism divided

Who from within has the authority to divide those in Christianity and Judaism? And by what doctrines are we divided by?

Romans 11

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:


“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

9 And David says:



“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.10
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:31 PM
Romans 11

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:


“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

9 And David says:



“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.10
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

That's one. Judaism in part did not believe Yahshua was the Messiah.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:33 PM
Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Did the Jews, or Christ and the disciples keep Easter?

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:35 PM
Did Christ and the disciples, including the first Gentile converts keep a Sunday Sabbath?

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:38 PM
Did those in Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a doctrine about Hell?

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:42 PM
Did Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a Trinitarian doctrine?

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 12:44 PM
I will come back later today to see what some have to say.

Ben Masada
April 27th, 2016, 01:19 PM
Christianity and Judaism divided

Who from within has the authority to divide those in Christianity and Judaism? And by what doctrines are we divided by?

Christianity and Judaism have never been united from the very beginning. All blame to Paul for keeping the division alive since then through his policy of Replacement Theology.(Acts 11:26) The motifs for the division among many other reasons, run from idolatry to Hellenism.

Ben Masada
April 27th, 2016, 01:22 PM
Did Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a Trinitarian doctrine?

NEVER! The Creator of the universe, according to Judaism is of an Absolute Oneness which is the opposite of the Trinity.

Ben Masada
April 27th, 2016, 01:25 PM
Did those in Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a doctrine about Hell?

Yes. The doctrine about Hell in Judaism is that of the grave aka Sheol. That's how Hell is forever because death is forever.

Ben Masada
April 27th, 2016, 01:30 PM
Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Did the Jews, or Christ and the disciples keep Easter?

Both, all the Jews and Jesus kept Passover. We should not forget that Jesus was also a Jew. Why would he do
any differently?

Ben Masada
April 27th, 2016, 01:42 PM
That's one. Judaism in part did not believe Yahshua was the Messiah.

The Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. BTW, Prophet Habakkuk gives an impressive testimony about the collective Messiah in Habakkuk 3:13.
"The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka the People of Israel.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:23 PM
Christianity and Judaism have never been united from the very beginning. All blame to Paul for keeping the division alive since then through his policy of Replacement Theology.(Acts 11:26) The motifs for the division among many other reasons, run from idolatry to Hellenism.

Replacement Theology comes from the Old Testament. From the beginning Christianity was under attack from Orthodox Jews, who were associated with Hellenism; but also Gnostic's and Pagans were also trying to take over.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:26 PM
NEVER! The Creator of the universe, according to Judaism is of an Absolute Oneness which is the opposite of the Trinity.

That is true, Orthodox Judaism never taught Trinitarianism, but there were Mystic, Gnostic, and Pagan Jews who taught such things.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:30 PM
Yes. The doctrine about Hell in Judaism is that of the grave aka Sheol. That's how Hell is forever because death is forever.
Sheol in Hebrew does mean grave. Hell is a place were people LIVE in torment. Did Orthodox Judaism teach that?

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:31 PM
Both, all the Jews and Jesus kept Passover. We should not forget that Jesus was also a Jew. Why would he do
any differently?
The question was about Easter.

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:37 PM
The Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. BTW, Prophet Habakkuk gives an impressive testimony about the collective Messiah in Habakkuk 3:13.
"The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka the People of Israel.

Did not Yah save His Anointed One from the grave to become Yahwah's salvation? Selah

CherubRam
April 27th, 2016, 02:52 PM
Psalm 16:10
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

jamie
April 27th, 2016, 03:02 PM
Hell is a place were people LIVE in torment.


This is not in the NT.

jamie
April 27th, 2016, 07:23 PM
All blame to Paul for keeping the division alive since then through his policy of Replacement Theology.


Paul's replacement theology? OK, let's talk about it.

Paul said, "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree..." (Romans 11:16-17)

Why were the natural branches broken off?

Paul explained, "You will say then, 'Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.' Well said, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear."
(Romans 11:19-20)

The branches were broken off because of unbelief. However, "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:23)

How long will you remain in unbelief?

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:47 AM
Truth

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:51 AM
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

With the passing of the disciples many things were added to the bible.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:54 AM
Jeremiah 8:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+8:8&version=NIV)
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 05:03 AM
Daniel 8:12
Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.[scriptural truth]

Rome canonized the scriptures, and the Hellenist also made changes.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 05:08 AM
Doctrine: A belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. A particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Doctrine can also include laws and traditions.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 05:10 AM
It looks like no one cares.

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 02:29 PM
Jeremiah 8:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+8:8&version=NIV)
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

What do you mean? Are you implying that the Tanach is a lie? The Tanach was the only Scriptures Jesus read and referred to as the Word of God. Don't you believe that he knew a little better than you and I?

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 02:36 PM
Paul's replacement theology? OK, let's talk about it.

Paul said, "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree..." (Romans 11:16-17)

Why were the natural branches broken off?

Paul explained, "You will say then, 'Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.' Well said, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear."
(Romans 11:19-20)

The branches were broken off because of unbelief. However, "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:23)

How long will you remain in unbelief?

Why should I believe something just because you believe? I believe the same thing Jesus used to believe. I bet you did not know that because you prefer today to believe the gospel of Paul.

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 02:47 PM
Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

What a vanity of a dream! There is no distinction between "faithful ones" and those without faith as experiencing decay is concerned. We all experience decay either we want or not, unless we are burn instead of buried. The metaphorical of "seeing decay" is simply dying which we all will, one way or another.

serpentdove
April 29th, 2016, 02:51 PM
Did Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a Trinitarian doctrine?


NEVER! The Creator of the universe, according to Judaism is of an Absolute Oneness which is the opposite of the Trinity.Esth 4:14 :straight:

Recommended reading:

The Jewish Trinity: How the Old Testament Reveals the Christian Godhead by Michael S. Heiser

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 03:01 PM
Did not Yah save His Anointed One from the grave to become Yahwah's salvation? Selah

Why would HaShem act against His own Word? Read 2 Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9, because Paul's word was more powerful than His? If you read II Tim. 2:8, Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that Jesus' resurrection was according to his, Paul's gospel. It means that he was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus had resurrected. Do you know what? I can prove that one will never return from the grave; can you prove otherwise? I don't think so.

jamie
April 29th, 2016, 03:01 PM
Why should I believe something just because you believe?


You shouldn't, you must prove for yourself what is true.

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 03:08 PM
Sheol in Hebrew does mean grave. Hell is a place were people LIVE in torment. Did Orthodox Judaism teach that?

Absolutely not! Now, imagine the absurdity of this doctrine. One dies here on earth to go live in a hell-fire.

Ben Masada
April 29th, 2016, 03:13 PM
You shouldn't, you must prove for yourself what is true.

I have proved already Jamie. Now, it is your turn. I mean, your chance to listen to the truth. At least, listen to the words of Jesus when he said, "Know the truth and the truth will set you free. Leave Paul and return to Jesus.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:10 PM
What do you mean? Are you implying that the Tanach is a lie? The Tanach was the only Scriptures Jesus read and referred to as the Word of God. Don't you believe that he knew a little better than you and I?

Jeremiah and Daniel say that the bible would be tampered with.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:12 PM
Truth

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Why are people blind and deaf to what is said in scriptures?

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:15 PM
What a vanity of a dream! There is no distinction between "faithful ones" and those without faith as experiencing decay is concerned. We all experience decay either we want or not, unless we are burn instead of buried. The metaphorical of "seeing decay" is simply dying which we all will, one way or another. Singular, not plural.

Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:22 PM
Esth 4:14 :straight:

Recommended reading:

The Jewish Trinity: How the Old Testament Reveals the Christian Godhead by Michael S. Heiser
Having been raised a Baptist I know very well of the Trinitarian proof text. If they were not faulty, then no one would be complaining. I am not allowed show people the truth on this forum, but I can give a link if you send a PM request.

CherubRam
April 29th, 2016, 04:39 PM
Why would HaShem act against His own Word? Read 2 Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9, because Paul's word was more powerful than His? If you read II Tim. 2:8, Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that Jesus' resurrection was according to his, Paul's gospel. It means that he was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus had resurrected. Do you know what? I can prove that one will never return from the grave; can you prove otherwise? I don't think so.
2 Samuel 12:23 is the prophet speaking, not God. Isaiah 26:14 is speaking about AFTER the final judgement. Job 7:9 is speaking of a persons own ability to return from the dead: Quote: "one who goes down to the grave does not return." Life immortal is a gift from God. In regards to 2 Timothy, ALL of the prophets and disciples taught a resurrection of the dead.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 03:39 AM
Salvation from Yahwah

Isaiah 43:11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+43:11&version=NIV)
I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+44:6&version=NIV)
“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45:5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45:5&version=NIV)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Isaiah 45:21 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45:21&version=NIV)
Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

Psalm 14:7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+14:7&version=NIV)
Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

Isaiah 49:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+49:6&version=NIV)
he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

Isaiah 49:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+49:8&version=NIV)
This is what the Lord says: “In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances,

Yahshua is Yahwah's salvation.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 11:38 AM
I'm waiting for your reply Ben.

Ben Masada
April 30th, 2016, 01:44 PM
2 Samuel 12:23 is the prophet speaking, not God. Isaiah 26:14 is speaking about AFTER the final judgement. Job 7:9 is speaking of a persons own ability to return from the dead: Quote: "one who goes down to the grave does not return." Life immortal is a gift from God. In regards to 2 Timothy, ALL of the prophets and disciples taught a resurrection of the dead.

Prophets spoke by inspiration from the Lord. So, what they said was the Word of the Lord. That Isaiah is speaking about after the final judgement is a Christian doctrine, not Jewish. And don't forget that the Tanach is Jewish. Then that the one cannot return from the grave is true; it is according to the Tanach.

The Lord never promised or allowed immortality as it belongs to God only. If you read Genesis 3:22 the reason why Adam & Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever.

And last but not least, never a Prophet or any of the disciples of Jesus preached resurrection of the dead. Before you quote the NT, let me tell you that not a single writer in the NT was Jewish. They were all Hellenist former disciples of Paul.

And still about the Prophets, I would appreciate if you quoted one who preached bodily resurrection; If I will not be able to explain the text, I'll be ready to join you and become one as you are. Nice deal this of mine.

Ben Masada
April 30th, 2016, 02:25 PM
Salvation from Yahwah

Isaiah 43:11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+43:11&version=NIV)
I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+44:6&version=NIV)
“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45:5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45:5&version=NIV)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Isaiah 45:21 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45:21&version=NIV)
Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

Psalm 14:7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+14:7&version=NIV)
Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!
Isaiah 49:8 he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”
search=Isaiah+49:8&version. Isaiah 49:8.
This is what the Lord says: “In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances,
Yahshua is Yahwah's salvation.

You have contradicted yourself with this post of yours above. You started it with affirming that Yahweh is the only Savior as I have it from Isaiah 43:1-3 and you turned all down by bringing back that the savior is Jesus. If you don't mind me to ask, what did Jesus save? The world was less sinful before Jesus was born and it has become worse many times after Jesus died. Jehovah, the Savior is perfect and Jesus was not. He was a man and, there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned. (Eccles. 7:20)

Ben Masada
April 30th, 2016, 02:38 PM
post deleted for duplication

Ben Masada
April 30th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Singular, not plural.

Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

That was King David praying for success in his battles with the enemy.

Ben Masada
April 30th, 2016, 02:47 PM
Jeremiah and Daniel say that the bible would be tampered with.

The Bible tempering was forged into the text when Paul introduced his gospel.

jamie
April 30th, 2016, 03:25 PM
The Bible tempering was forged into the text when Paul introduced his gospel.


Paul's gospel is from the Tanakh.

:rotfl:

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 03:27 PM
That was King David praying for success in his battles with the enemy.

Miktam = Hidden secret. Psalm 16:10 is about Christ, not David.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 03:41 PM
You have contradicted yourself with this post of yours above. You started it with affirming that Yahweh is the only Savior as I have it from Isaiah 43:1-3 and you turned all down by bringing back that the savior is Jesus. If you don't mind me to ask, what did Jesus save? The world was less sinful before Jesus was born and it has become worse many times after Jesus died. Jehovah, the Savior is perfect and Jesus was not. He was a man and, there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned. (Eccles. 7:20)

Christ is an immortal being from heaven, he was made a savior by God and is God's salvation. Christ was sent to reconcile man to God through himself and the New Covenant.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 03:44 PM
Prophets spoke by inspiration from the Lord. So, what they said was the Word of the Lord. That Isaiah is speaking about after the final judgement is a Christian doctrine, not Jewish. And don't forget that the Tanach is Jewish. Then that the one cannot return from the grave is true; it is according to the Tanach.

The Lord never promised or allowed immortality as it belongs to God only. If you read Genesis 3:22 the reason why Adam & Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever.

And last but not least, never a Prophet or any of the disciples of Jesus preached resurrection of the dead. Before you quote the NT, let me tell you that not a single writer in the NT was Jewish. They were all Hellenist former disciples of Paul.

And still about the Prophets, I would appreciate if you quoted one who preached bodily resurrection; If I will not be able to explain the text, I'll be ready to join you and become one as you are. Nice deal this of mine.

Christ and the disciples were Anti-Hellenist, that is one reason Christ was put to death by the Hellenistic Jews.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 04:09 PM
Life Immortal Resurrection
Genesis 4:7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+4:7&version=NIV)
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 32:39 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+32:39&version=NIV)
“See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+30:19&version=NIV)
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Matthew 22:23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:23&version=NIV)
That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.

Matthew 22:28 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:28&version=NIV)
Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

Matthew 22:30 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:30&version=NIV)
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Matthew 22:31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:31&version=NIV)
But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Matthew 27:53 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:53&version=NIV)
They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Mark 12:18 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:18&version=NIV)
Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.

Mark 12:23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:23&version=NIV)
At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

Luke 14:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+14:14&version=NIV)
and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

Luke 20:27 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+20:27&version=NIV)
Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.

Luke 20:33 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+20:33&version=NIV)
Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

Luke 20:35 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+20:35&version=NIV)
But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,

Luke 20:36 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+20:36&version=NIV)
and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

CherubRam
April 30th, 2016, 04:11 PM
The Bible tempering was forged into the text when Paul introduced his gospel.
The Hellenistic Jews also tampered with the Old Testament.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 01:52 AM
John 11:24 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11:24&version=NIV)
Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

John 11:25 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11:25&version=NIV)
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Acts 1:22 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1:22&version=NIV)
beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

Acts 2:31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+2:31&version=NIV)
Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Acts 4:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4:2&version=NIV)
They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

Acts 4:33 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4:33&version=NIV)
With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

Acts 17:18 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+17:18&version=NIV)
A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

Acts 17:32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+17:32&version=NIV)
When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.”

Acts 23:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+23:6&version=NIV)
Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead.”

Acts 23:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+23:8&version=NIV)
(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)

Acts 24:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+24:15&version=NIV)
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Acts 24:21 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+24:21&version=NIV)
unless it was this one thing I shouted as I stood in their presence: ‘It is concerning the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial before you today.’”

Romans 1:4 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1:4&version=NIV)
and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Proverbs 12:28 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12:28&version=NIV)
In the way of righteousness there is life; along that path is immortality.

Romans 2:7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2:7&version=NIV)
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:53 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+15:53&version=NIV)
For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+15:54&version=NIV)
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Timothy 1:10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy+1:10&version=NIV)
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 01:54 AM
Isaiah 26:19
But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.

Mark 9:9-10
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. 10 They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what "rising from the dead" meant.

Mark 12:25
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mark 12:26-27
Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!"

Luke 20:37-38
But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Psalm 16:11
You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Job 14:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+14:14&version=NIV)
If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come.

Ezekiel 37
11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 02:01 AM
While you are sitting there decomposing, your flies are getting together with my flies, making more flies:crackup:

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 10:20 AM
I gave you nine Old Testament scriptures related to the resurrection Ben.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 11:54 AM
Bump Ben!

Ben Masada
May 1st, 2016, 12:24 PM
Christ is an immortal being from heaven, he was made a savior by God and is God's salvation. Christ was sent to reconcile man to God through himself and the New Covenant.

Yes, as long as Israel remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) Now, read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One" That's what "Christ" aka the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord.

Ben Masada
May 1st, 2016, 12:28 PM
I gave you nine Old Testament scriptures related to the resurrection Ben.

No, you didn't. Perhaps you meant to. I looked for them and I found none. Try again and I'll tell what you don't know. BTW, what you thought you did, have absolutely nothing to do with bodily resurrection. The one for instance about being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it is just one of the names by which God is known. There is nothing to do with bodily resurrection.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 12:37 PM
No, you didn't. Perhaps you meant to. I looked for them and I found none. Try again and I'll tell what you don't know. BTW, what you thought you did, have absolutely nothing to do with bodily resurrection. The one for instance about being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it is just one of the names by which God is known. There is nothing to do with bodily resurrection.

Life Immortal Resurrection
Genesis 4:7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+4:7&version=NIV)
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 32:39 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+32:39&version=NIV)
“See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+30:19&version=NIV)
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Genesis 18:25 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gen%2018.25)
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Psalm 16:11 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Ps%2016.11)
You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Job 14:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+14:14&version=NIV)
If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come.

Ezekiel 37
11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord

Isaiah 26:19 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Isa%2026.19)
But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.

Proverbs 12:28 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12:28&version=NIV)
In the way of righteousness there is life; along that path is immortality.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 12:38 PM
I will be back this evening. Bye for now.

CherubRam
May 1st, 2016, 04:30 PM
Prophets spoke by inspiration from the Lord. So, what they said was the Word of the Lord. That Isaiah is speaking about after the final judgement is a Christian doctrine, not Jewish. And don't forget that the Tanach is Jewish. Then that the one cannot return from the grave is true; it is according to the Tanach.

The Lord never promised or allowed immortality as it belongs to God only. If you read Genesis 3:22 the reason why Adam & Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever.

And last but not least, never a Prophet or any of the disciples of Jesus preached resurrection of the dead. Before you quote the NT, let me tell you that not a single writer in the NT was Jewish. They were all Hellenist former disciples of Paul.

And still about the Prophets, I would appreciate if you quoted one who preached bodily resurrection; If I will not be able to explain the text, I'll be ready to join you and become one as you are. Nice deal this of mine.

Welcome aboard Ben.

CherubRam
May 3rd, 2016, 08:56 PM
It looks as Ben has disappeared.

CherubRam
May 5th, 2016, 03:01 PM
I have been waiting for a reply from you Ben.