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Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 08:11 PM
There may be a time where you can help someone. If we follow God's commands we can know what the true love of God is.

Maybe no one will know you helped someone, maybe you can share it with others out of joy, and maybe God will teach you something in this, or allow you to teach others too.

One way to share the love of God is to share the gospel. This is just one way to help others.

Nick M
April 25th, 2016, 08:17 PM
If you help some one because you are obeying commands, then you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. All the law depends on loving God and your neighbor. The law shows you need a savior.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 08:22 PM
If you help some one because you are obeying commands, then you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. All the law depends on loving God and your neighbor. The law shows you need a savior.
God commands us to love others, so obeying God's commands is loving your neighbor. Obedience to God involves love of your neighbor. Simply love others with the love of God with which you have been loved. There are a lot of ways that you can help others.

Lon
April 25th, 2016, 08:32 PM
Some kids make no waves and follow their parents directives their whole live only to rebel out of their sight. Romans 2:14

Romans 2 is a good text for thread reference.

patrick jane
April 25th, 2016, 08:51 PM
If you help some one because you are obeying commands, then you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. All the law depends on loving God and your neighbor. The law shows you need a savior.
Can I borrow some cash Nick ?

Matthew 5:42 KJV -

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 09:02 PM
Can I borrow some cash Nick ?

Matthew 5:42 KJV -

That is not the love of God patrick jane.

glorydaz
April 25th, 2016, 09:32 PM
Simply love others with the love of God with which you have been loved.

Simply love others as God loved us? Good luck with that one.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 09:34 PM
Simply love others as God loved us? Good luck with that one.
glorydaz,

I pray God will help you with it. :) Shalom. God is so much bigger than our problems. Luck has nothing to do with it. It is about God's provision to do what He has asked us to do.

jamie
April 25th, 2016, 09:36 PM
Can I borrow some cash Nick ?

Matthew 5:42 KJV -


Love would be to teach a man how to fish, not to give him a fish. When it's gone he will want another.

patrick jane
April 25th, 2016, 09:45 PM
Simply love others as God loved us? Good luck with that one.
Impossible for you ?

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:16 PM
There may be a time where you can help someone. If we follow God's commands we can know what the true love of God is.

Maybe no one will know you helped someone, maybe you can share it with others out of joy, and maybe God will teach you something in this, or allow you to teach others too.

One way to share the love of God is to share the gospel. This is just one way to help others.

You're the devil's helper because you teach his lies.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:17 PM
God commands us to love others, so obeying God's commands is loving your neighbor. Obedience to God involves love of your neighbor. Simply love others with the love of God with which you have been loved. There are a lot of ways that you can help others.

Sinners can't obey. You never learned that lesson.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:19 PM
Love would be to teach a man how to fish, not to give him a fish. When it's gone he will want another.

No, true love would be to take my neighbor to Captain D's and have Jamie pay for it. Hey everybody!!!....Jamie's buyin'.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:25 PM
Sinners can't obey. You never learned that lesson.
Anyone can obey God. The Spirit of God helps believers to obey.

Unbelievers are not inclined to obey God. They don't or can't, but obeying God is possible (or else God wouldn't give us commands in covenant or allow us to enter into covenant with Him).

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:28 PM
You're the devil's helper because you teach his lies.
God's Law and the gospel is not the lies of the devil. You seek to destroy.

I have no idea why you would say this or where you are coming from.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:29 PM
Anyone can obey God. The Spirit of God helps believers to obey.

Unbelievers are not inclined to obey God. They don't or can't, but obeying God is possible (or else God wouldn't give us commands in covenant or allow us to enter into covenant with Him).

You don't obey the gospel and are fallen from grace.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:30 PM
God's Law and the gospel is not the lies of the devil. You seek to destroy.

I have no idea why you would say this or where you are coming from.

You don't teach the gospel, LOL.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:31 PM
You don't obey the gospel and are fallen from grace.
Unbelievers do not obey the gospel, but they should.

Believers ought to walk in grace even as they were called by grace and saved by grace, God's grace.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:34 PM
You don't teach the gospel, LOL.
Preach or teach the gospel, the message is the same. God's salvation for you in Jesus Christ who died for you for the forgiveness of your sins and to grant you the free gift of eternal life.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:34 PM
Unbelievers do not obey the gospel, but they should.

Believers ought to walk in grace even as they were called by grace and saved by grace, God's grace.

Grace and law don't mix just ask the Galatians.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:35 PM
Grace and law don't mix just ask the Galatians.
There is no need to mix grace and law.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:35 PM
Preach or teach the gospel, the message is the same. God's salvation for you in Jesus Christ who died for you for the forgiveness of your sins and to grant you the free gift of eternal life.

You teach earning your way to heaven by keeping the law like the Pharisees.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:36 PM
You teach earning your way to heaven by keeping the law like the Pharisees.
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works.

Epoisses
April 25th, 2016, 11:40 PM
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works.

You're an 'earner' like Tony Soprano. Real Christians rest in the finished work of Christ. They don't do anything.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:43 PM
You're an 'earner' like Tony Soprano. Real Christians rest in the finished work of Christ. They don't do anything.
There is no reason to not rest in the finished work of Christ. Even Paul taught obedience to God's commands. I have no idea who Tony Soprano is, but I don't need to know.

ebenz47037
April 25th, 2016, 11:56 PM
If you want to help someone, help them. Don't brag about it. That makes you like the Pharisees, making sure that everyone knows what they do "for God." When I help people, I do it anonymously because I don't want them to focus on me and how they can thank me. I want them to focus on how good God is to them.

Jacob
April 25th, 2016, 11:58 PM
If you want to help someone, help them. Don't brag about it. That makes you like the Pharisees, making sure that everyone knows what they do "for God." When I help people, I do it anonymously because I don't want them to focus on me and how they can thank me. I want them to focus on how good God is to them.
Helping can come naturally, even in God and Christ, or it can be taught in homes, churches, schools.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 12:20 AM
Helping anonymously is a great way to help without seeking credit or notoriety from others. However you help may your praise be from God!

ebenz47037
April 26th, 2016, 04:04 AM
I taught my daughter the same thing I just told you. There are many ways of helping someone. There is financial help, physical help, and spiritual help. I give spiritual help all the time, by praying for people daily. I give physical help, by pitching in with something (making quilts with the ladies from my church, etc... When I can, I like to help out financially. That's not often, especially in today's economy. I like to imagine the look on the working mom's face when she goes into the electric company and finds out that her bill has been paid in full. Right now, that's reward enough for me.

I'm looking forward to later, this summer, when I can give part of my garden harvest to the food bank. If the weather cooperates, this year, I should have much more than enough for my household.
Helping can come naturally, even in God and Christ, or it can be taught in homes, churches, schools.

Nick M
April 26th, 2016, 06:53 AM
God commands us to love others, so obeying God's commands is loving your neighbor.

Hey idiot, pay attention. If you are not stealing his wallet because God told you not to steal the wallet, then you have a problem. Put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, before you end up along side the atheists and muslims. Because you are outside the faith with your instance on obedience.

Nick M
April 26th, 2016, 06:54 AM
There is no need to mix grace and law.

Yet you do it all the time. The law is a tutor. It shows you that you need a savior. You should not have to be told not to covet your neighbor's wife.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 10:32 AM
I taught my daughter the same thing I just told you. There are many ways of helping someone. There is financial help, physical help, and spiritual help. I give spiritual help all the time, by praying for people daily. I give physical help, by pitching in with something (making quilts with the ladies from my church, etc... When I can, I like to help out financially. That's not often, especially in today's economy. I like to imagine the look on the working mom's face when she goes into the electric company and finds out that her bill has been paid in full. Right now, that's reward enough for me.

I'm looking forward to later, this summer, when I can give part of my garden harvest to the food bank. If the weather cooperates, this year, I should have much more than enough for my household.

That's great! God has blessed you greatly. You are able to give in many different ways.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 10:33 AM
Hey idiot, pay attention. If you are not stealing his wallet because God told you not to steal the wallet, then you have a problem. Put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, before you end up along side the atheists and muslims. Because you are outside the faith with your instance on obedience.

Nick. Not stealing is obedience to God.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 10:38 AM
Yet you do it all the time.
I don't understand what you are trying to say. I don't think I do. You feel I do. I don't know why you think or feel this. I don't believe it is true. Otherwise I wouldn't have said what I did in response. You are adding your words to my response.

The law is a tutor.
Yes.
It shows you that you need a savior.
It shows everyone they need a Savior. That Savior is God and specifically Jesus.

You should not have to be told not to covet your neighbor's wife.
True. But I am told by God to not covet my neighbor's wife. There is nothing wrong or bad with this.

ebenz47037
April 26th, 2016, 12:06 PM
My original point was that I help people out because I want to, not because I feel I have to.
That's great! God has blessed you greatly. You are able to give in many different ways.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 12:09 PM
My original point was that I help people out because I want to, not because I feel I have to.
Amen!

We should always want to help others, whether we are able to or not.

csuguy
April 26th, 2016, 08:12 PM
You're an 'earner' like Tony Soprano. Real Christians rest in the finished work of Christ. They don't do anything.

Wow. I can't say I'm surprised, but such a statement is quite telling of the state of many/most of the Christians on this forum.

"Christ did everything, nothing is expected of his followers. His teachings and commands don't apply to us."

glorydaz
April 26th, 2016, 09:04 PM
glorydaz,

I pray God will help you with it. :) Shalom. God is so much bigger than our problems. Luck has nothing to do with it. It is about God's provision to do what He has asked us to do.

So you think YOU can love as God loved us? You spoke of the "love of God" and claim that as your own? It's HIS love ....worked out in His body, are we to take credit for that? "Good luck" is a figure of speech...please don't go politically correct on me. :think:

I'm referring to the love of God which is shed abroad on our hearts by the Spirit. That love is not something that comes from US. It leaves room for boasting to claim it does. And see, here you are lecturing me and praying "God will help" me with it. That's just how easily it happens.


Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Jacob
April 26th, 2016, 09:34 PM
So you think YOU can love as God loved us? You spoke of the "love of God" and claim that as your own? It's HIS love ....worked out in His body, are we to take credit for that? "Good luck" is a figure of speech...please don't go politically correct on me. :think:

I'm referring to the love of God which is shed abroad on our hearts by the Spirit. That love is not something that comes from US. It leaves room for boasting to claim it does. And see, here you are lecturing me and praying "God will help" me with it. That's just how easily it happens.


Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

God's love for us teaches us what love is so that we know how to love. We love because He first loved us. We also love out of or with the love with which He loved us. It is not His love it is our love, but it is the love of God within us with which we love. That is, God's love is for you. And you also ought to love one another. If you have never known God's love, you know what it is when God has loved you and even when you love others and it is not of yourself it is God's love. I think you understand, based on your explanation and the verse you have shared.

Epoisses
April 26th, 2016, 11:34 PM
Wow. I can't say I'm surprised, but such a statement is quite telling of the state of many/most of the Christians on this forum.

"Christ did everything, nothing is expected of his followers. His teachings and commands don't apply to us."

Christ lives out his perfect life in us. We don't do anything because he does it all. Can you overcome sin all by yourself? You're a super Christian. I bet you can even resurrect yourself.

csuguy
April 26th, 2016, 11:58 PM
Christ lives out his perfect life in us. We don't do anything because he does it all. Can you overcome sin all by yourself? You're a super Christian. I bet you can even resurrect yourself.

I didn't say that a Christian does everything themselves, obviously Christ's sacrifice was necessary for our salvation. He trapped sin in the flesh, and offered us all a new beginning, a chance to be reborn as the sons and daughters of God Almighty. He furthermore sent us the Holy Spirit to help guide us - but not possess us as if we are somehow now devoid of our freewill. We must still choose to do what is right and to avoid sin.

That is a far cry from asserting that Christ does EVERYTHING, and that NOTHING is required of us. To the contrary, scripture repeatedly asserts that it is the one who perseveres that will be saved, the one who loses their life will save it, the one who seeks what is good and right will be rewarded with eternal life. Only those who do the will of the Lord will be saved. These are the things the scriptures repeat over and over again - it's all right there if you can see and hear God's word.

One who has their heart & mind set on the flesh, on worldly things, such a person cannot please God. However, one who sets their mind on the Spirit, on love, such a person is fully capable of pleasing God, of doing what is right, of fulfilling the Law. And the fulfillment of the Law is love. Indeed - such a one will not sin, for it is contrary to their heart and mind - to who they are and what they truly desire.

You mock the Law, and forget that under the New Covenant, God's people will have his Law written on their hearts and mind. It is an essential part of being Christian. One cannot be a Christian and abandon the Law of God, the Law of the Spirit, the Law of Faith.


Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Epoisses
April 27th, 2016, 12:02 AM
You mock the Law, and forget that under the New Covenant, God's people will have his Law written on their hearts and mind. It is an essential part of being Christian. One cannot be a Christian and abandon the Law of God, the Law of the Spirit, the Law of Faith.

And you mock the idea that Christ does it all implying that you are still carnal and trying to 'help' God.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

csuguy
April 27th, 2016, 12:06 AM
And you mock the idea that Christ does it all implying that you are still carnal and trying to 'help' God.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

I do mock the idea that Christ does everything and that nothing is required of us - because that is completely non-sensical and unscriptural. It is furthermore blasphemous - for you are using Christ as an excuse for NOT doing the will of God, for not doing what is right, for completely embracing a wordly life - because you think NOTHING is expected of you. No - you go even further and say that to even suggest that we should do anything is wrong and a mockery of Christ.

You say to follow Christ is to NOT follow is example, to ignore his teachings and commandments. If you cannot see how completely twisted and evil this logic is then you are quite lost.

Epoisses
April 27th, 2016, 08:54 AM
You say to follow Christ is to NOT follow is example, to ignore his teachings and commandments. If you cannot see how completely twisted and evil this logic is then you are quite lost.

So if Christ lives out his life in me then I am ignoring his teachings and commandments? You have a fleshly understanding of obedience. Walking in the Sprit is nothing like that. You're more of a self-help guru than a Christian.

patrick jane
April 27th, 2016, 08:58 AM
I do mock the idea that Christ does everything and that nothing is required of us - because that is completely non-sensical and unscriptural. It is furthermore blasphemous - for you are using Christ as an excuse for NOT doing the will of God, for not doing what is right, for completely embracing a wordly life - because you think NOTHING is expected of you. No - you go even further and say that to even suggest that we should do anything is wrong and a mockery of Christ.

You say to follow Christ is to NOT follow is example, to ignore his teachings and commandments. If you cannot see how completely twisted and evil this logic is then you are quite lost.


You're just flat out wrong csuguy. Living in Christ is following Him and Paul's gospel and nothing you do is good for salvation. Christ did everything

Galatians 2:20 KJV -

glorydaz
April 27th, 2016, 06:24 PM
It is not His love it is our love,

when you love others and it is not of yourself it is God's love.

I think you understand, based on your explanation and the verse you have shared.

I do, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. :idunno:

patrick jane
April 27th, 2016, 06:28 PM
That is not the love of God patrick jane.
Sure it is, I need the money for my new church

Jacob
April 27th, 2016, 09:58 PM
Sure it is, I need the money for my new church
I think you are not being serious, which is good I guess but may be unclear.

You should not demand of anyone what is their right to give. In fact, don't take from others. If it is yours ask for it back if you must.

Jacob
April 27th, 2016, 10:00 PM
I do, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. :idunno:
I hope not.

glorydaz
April 27th, 2016, 10:05 PM
I hope not.

The fault may be in my reading. It won't be the first time something has gone over my head. :)

csuguy
April 27th, 2016, 10:37 PM
You're just flat out wrong csuguy. Living in Christ is following Him and Paul's gospel and nothing you do is good for salvation. Christ did everything

Galatians 2:20 KJV -

You speak of following him - but you abandon everything he taught and commanded - saying "that doesn't apply to me! Jesus did it all, nothing is expected of me!" Whatever you are doing, it's not following Christ. Rather you are using Christ as an excuse for why you don't need to live as Christ instructed.


James 2:14-20 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can [n]that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, [o]be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is [p]dead, being by itself.

18 But someone [q]may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that [r]God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

csuguy
April 27th, 2016, 10:43 PM
So if Christ lives out his life in me then I am ignoring his teachings and commandments? You have a fleshly understanding of obedience. Walking in the Sprit is nothing like that. You're more of a self-help guru than a Christian.

What it means for Christ to live in you, for you to walk in the Spirit, is that you put aside worldly desires and sinful passions. It means that you devote yourself to doing God's will. This is what it means to lose your life so that you may save it. For this same reason, Christ was able to say "he who has seen me has seen the Father." For you are no longer living for yourself, but for God - doing his will.

Or do you think the "spiritual" understanding of a commandment is to do nothing? Do you think that when God says to stop sinning, the "spiritual" understanding is that you are free to carry on as you please? Do you think when he calls his people to be Holy, the "spiritual" meaning of this is to live just like everyone else - living a worldly life? Do you think when Christ says you must lose your life to save it that he was joking?

Epoisses
April 27th, 2016, 11:10 PM
What it means for Christ to live in you, for you to walk in the Spirit, is that you put aside worldly desires and sinful passions. It means that you devote yourself to doing God's will. This is what it means to lose your life so that you may save it. For this same reason, Christ was able to say "he who has seen me has seen the Father." For you are no longer living for yourself, but for God - doing his will.

Or do you think the "spiritual" understanding of a commandment is to do nothing? Do you think that when God says to stop sinning, the "spiritual" understanding is that you are free to carry on as you please? Do you think when he calls his people to be Holy, the "spiritual" meaning of this is to live just like everyone else - living a worldly life? Do you think when Christ says you must lose your life to save it that he was joking?

You don't know or believe the gospel. You have a works religion that is all about you, yourself and I. Christ's commands are enablings to those that believe. When he says to love your neighbor he gives us love. When he says to be spiritual he gives us the Spirit. When he says to be perfect we trust in his perfect life. Christianity is about faith and trust not carnal commandments.

csuguy
April 27th, 2016, 11:54 PM
You don't know or believe the gospel. You have a works religion that is all about you, yourself and I. Christ's commands are enablings to those that believe. When he says to love your neighbor he gives us love. When he says to be spiritual he gives us the Spirit. When he says to be perfect we trust in his perfect life. Christianity is about faith and trust not carnal commandments.

Do you not see how convoluted your logic is? I base my understanding upon Christ's teachings and commands - and you say that it isn't the Gospel. I reiterate the scriptures in commanding us to give our lives to God, not living for oneself, and to help those in need - you say these things are about "you, yourself, and I."

When he tells you to love your neighbor, even your enemy - that means just that: love them, care about and prioritize their well-being, even sacrificing of yourself to do so. This is not "carnal" - and it is blasphemous to assert such a thing. God is love and we are called to love. If you are unclear what it means to love - look at Christ: sacrificing one's life for another is the ultimate act of love.

When he speaks of walking in the Spirit - he means giving up your worldly life and desires. It means setting your heart and mind upon God, upon what is good and right, and devoting yourself completely to doing God's will, to doing what is right. Only then can you please God.

When he says to be perfect and not sin - he means just that. Not go ahead and continue sinning because Christ lived a perfect life - as if that means it's OK to sin now...

Stop and listen to yourself. Think about what you are saying and doing. Do you not see how you are twisting the scriptures to make them say what you want them to say? At every turn you twist the scriptures to take responsibility off of yourself rather than studying the scriptures for what they actually say. You defend your mutilated teachings by asserting that it's the "spiritual" interpretation - which is non-sense.

Unfortunately your views are pretty main-stream, this is what Christianity has devolved into today: "belief" instead of action (even though faith without works is dead), pushing off everything onto Christ as if now nothing is expected of you, and a completely abandonment of Christ's teachings and God's commands.

If you truly believed then you would act accordingly. But your faith is dead so long as you go on like this. Like the man who heard the Word of the Lord and yet continued to build on the sand despite it, the way you are headed leads to destruction.

Beware that you do not become a goat, asking: ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’

Totton Linnet
April 28th, 2016, 04:11 AM
God commands us to love others, so obeying God's commands is loving your neighbor. Obedience to God involves love of your neighbor. Simply love others with the love of God with which you have been loved. There are a lot of ways that you can help others.

All of your posts remind me of butterflies I once saw in a glass case, so beautiful, so dead. What we do springs from the inner life of Christ not from the outward obeying of commands

Jacob
April 28th, 2016, 04:15 AM
All of your posts remind me of butterflies I once saw in a glass case, so beautiful, so dead. What we do springs from the inner life of Christ not from the outward obeying of commands
Obeying God's commands is not necessarily an outward observance. Often it is a matter of the heart. But what we do should always be for God. God's commands are for us. He has our best interests in mind.

Totton Linnet
April 28th, 2016, 04:17 AM
Obeying God's commands is not necessarily an outward observance. Often it is a matter of the heart. But what we do should always be for God. God's commands are for us. He has our best interests in mind.

so beautiful, so dead

Jacob
April 28th, 2016, 04:19 AM
so beautiful, so dead
God bless. :)

Epoisses
April 28th, 2016, 09:47 AM
Do you not see how convoluted your logic is? I base my understanding upon Christ's teachings and commands - and you say that it isn't the Gospel. I reiterate the scriptures in commanding us to give our lives to God, not living for oneself, and to help those in need - you say these things are about "you, yourself, and I."

When he tells you to love your neighbor, even your enemy - that means just that: love them, care about and prioritize their well-being, even sacrificing of yourself to do so. This is not "carnal" - and it is blasphemous to assert such a thing. God is love and we are called to love. If you are unclear what it means to love - look at Christ: sacrificing one's life for another is the ultimate act of love.

When he speaks of walking in the Spirit - he means giving up your worldly life and desires. It means setting your heart and mind upon God, upon what is good and right, and devoting yourself completely to doing God's will, to doing what is right. Only then can you please God.

When he says to be perfect and not sin - he means just that. Not go ahead and continue sinning because Christ lived a perfect life - as if that means it's OK to sin now...

Stop and listen to yourself. Think about what you are saying and doing. Do you not see how you are twisting the scriptures to make them say what you want them to say? At every turn you twist the scriptures to take responsibility off of yourself rather than studying the scriptures for what they actually say. You defend your mutilated teachings by asserting that it's the "spiritual" interpretation - which is non-sense.

Unfortunately your views are pretty main-stream, this is what Christianity has devolved into today: "belief" instead of action (even though faith without works is dead), pushing off everything onto Christ as if now nothing is expected of you, and a completely abandonment of Christ's teachings and God's commands.

If you truly believed then you would act accordingly. But your faith is dead so long as you go on like this. Like the man who heard the Word of the Lord and yet continued to build on the sand despite it, the way you are headed leads to destruction.

Beware that you do not become a goat, asking: ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’

Your views fail in one respect. You neither see nor acknowledge yourself as being a sinner who can do nothing good. You believe like so many worldly Christians that effort and work are the keys to being 'good' Christians. You are carnal and selfish and crucify Jesus afresh and put him to open shame. You have no faith or love and are destitute of God's Holy Spirit. Your trust is in yourself and God will humble pride like yours or you will be hardened in sin and lost forever.

csuguy
April 29th, 2016, 04:00 AM
Your views fail in one respect. You neither see nor acknowledge yourself as being a sinner who can do nothing good. You believe like so many worldly Christians that effort and work are the keys to being 'good' Christians. You are carnal and selfish and crucify Jesus afresh and put him to open shame. You have no faith or love and are destitute of God's Holy Spirit. Your trust is in yourself and God will humble pride like yours or you will be hardened in sin and lost forever.

There you go making things up to defend your views, rather than learn the truth. I never denied that I have sinned or said anything to imply such a thing - to the contrary, I have most definitely sinned which is why I need forgiveness and reconciliation with God through Christ.

However, I do deny that I cannot anything good. That is false and contrary to the scriptures. We are fully capable of doing what is good and right, and of not sinning. There is no sin that you cannot escape - for God is good and promises this. More than that, God has presented us with a choice: to do good or to do evil, to obey or to sin, to live or to die. He has said that this is not too difficult for us - that it is not out of our reach. He compels us to do what is right, to choose life! It is in our hands which we choose.

Deut 30:11-19 this commandment... is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. It is not in heaven... nor is it beyond the sea ... but the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it... I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live.

PureX
April 29th, 2016, 07:19 AM
There may be a time where you can help someone. If we follow God's commands we can know what the true love of God is.

Maybe no one will know you helped someone, maybe you can share it with others out of joy, and maybe God will teach you something in this, or allow you to teach others too.

One way to share the love of God is to share the gospel. This is just one way to help others.The opportunity to help others is always with us. Unfortunately, we are so self-centered in our focus that we often don't recognize this. Every time we drive our vehicles in a safe and considerate manner we are helping other people. Every time we wait patiently in line for our turn we are helping others. Every time we respond politely rather than callously to someone, we are helping others. On and on it goes. How we choose to behave in nearly every situation we encounter becomes an opportunity to help others.

Helping others is a way of being. It's an attitude of selflessness, and attention toward the well-being of others, instead of just toward out own.

Epoisses
April 29th, 2016, 08:44 AM
There you go making things up to defend your views, rather than learn the truth. I never denied that I have sinned or said anything to imply such a thing - to the contrary, I have most definitely sinned which is why I need forgiveness and reconciliation with God through Christ.

However, I do deny that I cannot anything good. That is false and contrary to the scriptures. We are fully capable of doing what is good and right, and of not sinning. There is no sin that you cannot escape - for God is good and promises this. More than that, God has presented us with a choice: to do good or to do evil, to obey or to sin, to live or to die. He has said that this is not too difficult for us - that it is not out of our reach. He compels us to do what is right, to choose life! It is in our hands which we choose.

Deut 30:11-19 this commandment... is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. It is not in heaven... nor is it beyond the sea ... but the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it... I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live.

You haven't learned what sin is yet because if you think (like so many other carbon copy Christians) that sin is refraining from bad deeds then you are no different than the moral atheist. The vast majority of non-believers today live moral lives. They eat healthy and provide for their children and keep the laws of the land for the most part. We live in a mostly law abiding society with people who even try to save all the animals. Is God interested in well-behaved sinners? No, he's not and an outward obedience will never save anyone. The NT definition of sin is unbelief and by this definition all of the well-behaved sinners are condemned. They don't believe just like you don't believe. We don't chose life like some kind of Arminian on steroids. We believe in Jesus and he gives us life.

csuguy
April 29th, 2016, 11:19 AM
You haven't learned what sin is yet because if you think (like so many other carbon copy Christians) that sin is refraining from bad deeds then you are no different than the moral atheist. The vast majority of non-believers today live moral lives. They eat healthy and provide for their children and keep the laws of the land for the most part. We live in a mostly law abiding society with people who even try to save all the animals. Is God interested in well-behaved sinners? No, he's not and an outward obedience will never save anyone. The NT definition of sin is unbelief and by this definition all of the well-behaved sinners are condemned. They don't believe just like you don't believe. We don't chose life like some kind of Arminian on steroids. We believe in Jesus and he gives us life.

If you believe, but do not act accordingly, of what use is that? Can that save you? No. For if you do not act accordingly, then you are no better off than one who does not believe. You join them in building atop the sand instead of the rock. Only, unlike them, you do not have ignorance to defend you before God - you fully know what is right and wrong - and so your conscious will fully condemn you before God.

You have to be the only person I've heard assert that non-believers are essentially all moral people who do what is right. While there are those who are morally upright - most people today are anything but. People today abort their children and justify it by denying the humanity of their child. Today their is a rampant amount of hate for God, for religion, and, in general, for anyone who is different. People do not devote their lives to doing what is right - they devote it to chasing after money, power, etc. People today are just as evil and sinful as they have always been - and our job of sharing the Gospel and making disciples, teaching them to obey the commandments, is just as important as it has always been.

Epoisses
April 29th, 2016, 01:12 PM
People today are just as evil and sinful as they have always been - and our job of sharing the Gospel and making disciples, teaching them to obey the commandments, is just as important as it has always been.

You're not sharing the gospel. You are sharing more works based, self help, make yourself a better person by keeping the rules. The gospel is what Christ has done not what we do. Christian living is not the gospel it is the fruit of the gospel. You remind me of these so called moral do gooders who get on their soap box and condemn all the bad deeds of the world but never provide a remedy or a solution. The remedy is believing the gospel and receiving Christ's spirit so we can live above the filth of the world. You're cleaning the outside of the cup while the unconverted heart goes on living in blindness. You're band-aid solution to the sin problem just ignores the real issue of man's unending rebellion and unbelief of the finished work of Christ. Do you believe what Christ accomplished on the cross is finished or a work under construction?

csuguy
April 29th, 2016, 03:29 PM
You're not sharing the gospel. You are sharing more works based, self help, make yourself a better person by keeping the rules. The gospel is what Christ has done not what we do. Christian living is not the gospel it is the fruit of the gospel. You remind me of these so called moral do gooders who get on their soap box and condemn all the bad deeds of the world but never provide a remedy or a solution. The remedy is believing the gospel and receiving Christ's spirit so we can live above the filth of the world. You're cleaning the outside of the cup while the unconverted heart goes on living in blindness. You're band-aid solution to the sin problem just ignores the real issue of man's unending rebellion and unbelief of the finished work of Christ. Do you believe what Christ accomplished on the cross is finished or a work under construction?

I am sharing the gospel - everything I have said comes straight from the scriptures, even the very words of Christ. You reject these things - insisting that they don't apply to you. So, I ask you, how is it that you "follow" Christ if you reject everything he taught and commanded as inapplicable to you?

Epoisses
April 29th, 2016, 04:10 PM
I am sharing the gospel - everything I have said comes straight from the scriptures, even the very words of Christ. You reject these things - insisting that they don't apply to you. So, I ask you, how is it that you "follow" Christ if you reject everything he taught and commanded as inapplicable to you?

So which commandments do I keep? The NT commands of faith and love or the OT commandments found in Jewish law. What are you some kind of Messianic?

csuguy
April 29th, 2016, 05:44 PM
So which commandments do I keep? The NT commands of faith and love or the OT commandments found in Jewish law. What are you some kind of Messianic?

All of the law and the prophets rest upon the two great commandments: love the Lord your God and love your fellowman. Under the New Covenant, God's Law is written on our hearts and minds so that we may fulfill the Law - and the fulfillment of the Law is love.


Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify [w]the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.


Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

chrysostom
April 29th, 2016, 05:57 PM
All of the law and the prophets rest upon the two great commandments: love the Lord your God and love your fellowman.

yes

Epoisses
April 29th, 2016, 09:00 PM
All of the law and the prophets rest upon the two great commandments: love the Lord your God and love your fellowman. Under the New Covenant, God's Law is written on our hearts and minds so that we may fulfill the Law - and the fulfillment of the Law is love.


Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify [w]the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.


Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you abstain from bacon and keep the Sabbath?

csuguy
April 30th, 2016, 12:43 AM
Do you abstain from bacon and keep the Sabbath?

No I don't abstain from bacon, all food is clean now. But it never was a sin to eat bacon anyways, even in the Old Testament - kosher dietary restrictions were never a matter of sin. It was a matter of being ceremonially clean. Having sex makes one ceremonially unclean, for a time. A woman, during her time of the month is unclean. Coming in to contact with a dead body makes one ceremonially unclean, for a time. You should go study up on what it means to be ceremonially clean/unclean in Judaism.

This matter of ceremonial cleanliness is why the pharisees criticized Christ for eating with unwashed hands, for eating with sinners, and the like.

As for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for us - a time to rest from our worldly labors. I very much look forward to the Sabbath. It is good and necessary for us to rest and to focus on God.

Something you must keep in mind when studying the Law is that the commandments were given with a reason - they aren't random ordinances. You must seek to understand the Spirit behind the commandments, as opposed to simply the letter of the Law. For priests are said to break the letter of the Law, working on the Sabbath - yet it is not sin for them.

patrick jane
April 30th, 2016, 07:13 AM
yes
then do it

Epoisses
April 30th, 2016, 09:32 AM
No I don't abstain from bacon, all food is clean now. But it never was a sin to eat bacon anyways, even in the Old Testament - kosher dietary restrictions were never a matter of sin. It was a matter of being ceremonially clean. Having sex makes one ceremonially unclean, for a time. A woman, during her time of the month is unclean. Coming in to contact with a dead body makes one ceremonially unclean, for a time. You should go study up on what it means to be ceremonially clean/unclean in Judaism.

This matter of ceremonial cleanliness is why the pharisees criticized Christ for eating with unwashed hands, for eating with sinners, and the like.

As for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for us - a time to rest from our worldly labors. I very much look forward to the Sabbath. It is good and necessary for us to rest and to focus on God.

Something you must keep in mind when studying the Law is that the commandments were given with a reason - they aren't random ordinances. You must seek to understand the Spirit behind the commandments, as opposed to simply the letter of the Law. For priests are said to break the letter of the Law, working on the Sabbath - yet it is not sin for them.

When they give up bacon and keep the Sabbath it's game over. Faith is dead and Love is cold. You're half way there.

csuguy
April 30th, 2016, 12:30 PM
When they give up bacon and keep the Sabbath it's game over. Faith is dead and Love is cold. You're half way there.

Do you not know that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath? (Matthew 12:8) Why do you mock what is Holy?

Epoisses
April 30th, 2016, 04:11 PM
Do you not know that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath? (Matthew 12:8) Why do you mock what is Holy?

The Sabbath was a shadow of the rest we experience by believing in Christ. The writer of Hebrews made this as clear as day. There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God that can only be entered into by faith. If you try to bypass Christ be keeping the law with the Sabbath day you are fallen from grace.

patrick jane
April 30th, 2016, 04:40 PM
Do you not know that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath? (Matthew 12:8) Why do you mock what is Holy?
That's why Jesus did works on the Sabbath

csuguy
April 30th, 2016, 06:13 PM
That's why Jesus did works on the Sabbath


Matthew 12:8-14 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. 9 Departing from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned [f]Jesus, asking, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—so that they might accuse Him. 11 And He said to them, “What man [g]is there among you who [h]has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do [i]good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He *said to the man, “Stretch out your hand!” He stretched it out, and it was restored to [j]normal, like the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and [k]conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

csuguy
April 30th, 2016, 06:20 PM
The Sabbath was a shadow of the rest we experience by believing in Christ. The writer of Hebrews made this as clear as day. There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God that can only be entered into by faith. If you try to bypass Christ be keeping the law with the Sabbath day you are fallen from grace.

You are - once more - being absurd and acting completely contrary to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and the Sabbath is Holy. You will not fall from grace because you observe that which is Holy.

The Law is Holy and it tells you not to murder. Do you think that by observing this commandment one has fallen from grace? Foolish.

Epoisses
April 30th, 2016, 08:04 PM
You are - once more - being absurd and acting completely contrary to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and the Sabbath is Holy. You will not fall from grace because you observe that which is Holy.

The Law is Holy and it tells you not to murder. Do you think that by observing this commandment one has fallen from grace? Foolish.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4

The law was put in place and had jurisdiction over Israel until the time of reformation when Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. He literally fulfilled every type and shadow of the law so now he has jurisdiction over the people of God making the law obsolete. Any return to it in the age of grace is a rejection of Christ and the highest form of sin.

Epoisses
April 30th, 2016, 08:08 PM
You are - once more - being absurd and acting completely contrary to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and the Sabbath is Holy. You will not fall from grace because you observe that which is Holy.

What are you some kind of SDA or something?

Jacob
April 30th, 2016, 10:53 PM
The opportunity to help others is always with us. Unfortunately, we are so self-centered in our focus that we often don't recognize this. Every time we drive our vehicles in a safe and considerate manner we are helping other people. Every time we wait patiently in line for our turn we are helping others. Every time we respond politely rather than callously to someone, we are helping others. On and on it goes. How we choose to behave in nearly every situation we encounter becomes an opportunity to help others.
There are many ways to help others. You are correct in this.

Helping others is a way of being. It's an attitude of selflessness, and attention toward the well-being of others, instead of just toward our own.
It is easy to believe we are being very helpful toward others and that this is what God desires so that in this we have arrived. There is more to life than this. Helping others is important. It is part of the gospel, not opposed to it. But helping others is not enough to be saved. To be saved one must be saved by God in Christ. Repent, and have faith. Have faith in God. Jesus died for you, that your sins would be forgiven.

csuguy
May 1st, 2016, 02:49 AM
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4

The law was put in place and had jurisdiction over Israel until the time of reformation when Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. He literally fulfilled every type and shadow of the law so now he has jurisdiction over the people of God making the law obsolete. Any return to it in the age of grace is a rejection of Christ and the highest form of sin.

One should not seek justification via the Law - that is indeed foolish. However, just because the Law does not save us from our sins does not mean that it has been abolished or has been made inapplicable to us. Rather...

Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


The Law is holy and good - and we are called to obey the commandments and to teach others to do likewise.

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Whatever you are - you are not a follower of Christ if you abandon his teaching and commandments. You think by doing nothing you will be saved - but this is in complete contradiction to his teachings, which say that you must give your life to save it. You must do the will of the Lord. Unfortunately you don't appear to care about what Christ or the scriptures actually say, you have blinded yourself to the truth.

Epoisses
May 1st, 2016, 05:38 PM
One should not seek justification via the Law - that is indeed foolish. However, just because the Law does not save us from our sins does not mean that it has been abolished or has been made inapplicable to us. Rather...

Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And the law was fulfilled at the cross. Bye, bye law - I never liked you anyway.



Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


The Law is holy and good - and we are called to obey the commandments and to teach others to do likewise.

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Whatever you are - you are not a follower of Christ if you abandon his teaching and commandments. You think by doing nothing you will be saved - but this is in complete contradiction to his teachings, which say that you must give your life to save it. You must do the will of the Lord. Unfortunately you don't appear to care about what Christ or the scriptures actually say, you have blinded yourself to the truth.

Christians keep the commandments of faith and love not the Jewish Sabbath!!!! You are a Judaizer and Acts 15 rebukes you. Take your SDA trash back to the pits of hell where it came from.

Jacob
May 1st, 2016, 05:42 PM
And the law was fulfilled at the cross. Bye, bye law - I never liked you anyway.

Christians keep the commandments of faith and love not the Jewish Sabbath!!!! You are a Judaizer and Acts 15 rebukes you. Take your SDA trash back to the pits of hell where it came from.
Epoisses,

Can I help you? It is okay to help people obey God's commands. And obeying God's commands does involve helping people.

Epoisses
May 1st, 2016, 05:46 PM
Epoisses,

Can I help you? It is okay to help people obey God's commands. And obeying God's commands does involve helping people.

I feel so sad for you. Keep working your way to heaven and maybe you'll fall on the rock and get broken.

Jacob
May 1st, 2016, 05:48 PM
I feel so sad for you. Keep working your way to heaven and maybe you'll fall on the rock and get broken.
Are you referring to scripture or bringing in an idea you believe should be worthy of my consideration? I don't believe anyone can work their way to heaven.

patrick jane
May 1st, 2016, 06:23 PM
Are you referring to scripture or bringing in an idea you believe should be worthy of my consideration? I don't believe anyone can work their way to heaven.
Help me Jacob by obeying the whole law -

Jacob
May 1st, 2016, 06:27 PM
Help me Jacob by obeying the whole law -

I see nothing against that! You may say it is impossible but I say it is possible to help you or anyone else and what better way than by obeying God's commands?! :)

csuguy
May 1st, 2016, 07:09 PM
Fulfilling the law is only impossible if your heart and mind are set on the wrong things.

Romans 8:6-8 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Do you subject yourself to the law of God or not? Is your heart and mind set of the flesh or the Spirit?

Epoisses
May 1st, 2016, 10:00 PM
Fulfilling the law is only impossible if your heart and mind are set on the wrong things.

Romans 8:6-8 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Do you subject yourself to the law of God or not? Is your heart and mind set of the flesh or the Spirit?

Fulfilling the law is when you realize what a horrible and terrible sinner you are and then Jesus lives out his perfect life thru you. I can't love God or my neighbor the way the law demands but Jesus can.

csuguy
May 1st, 2016, 11:59 PM
Fulfilling the law is when you realize what a horrible and terrible sinner you are and then Jesus lives out his perfect life thru you. I can't love God or my neighbor the way the law demands but Jesus can.

Of course you can love as Jesus can. There is nothing stopping you - it doesn't require divine powers. It requires a heart and mind set on the Spirit, upon God, upon doing what is right and good. Indeed - that is the fulfillment of the Law: Love.

Epoisses
May 2nd, 2016, 09:42 AM
Of course you can love as Jesus can. There is nothing stopping you - it doesn't require divine powers. It requires a heart and mind set on the Spirit, upon God, upon doing what is right and good. Indeed - that is the fulfillment of the Law: Love.

This is the spirit of the old covenant. All that the Lord has spoken we will do and be obedient. The promise of the people to obey God that is never kept. If you were really serious about obedience you would preach the gospel but you don't so you're not.

csuguy
May 2nd, 2016, 01:15 PM
This is the spirit of the old covenant. All that the Lord has spoken we will do and be obedient. The promise of the people to obey God that is never kept. If you were really serious about obedience you would preach the gospel but you don't so you're not.

This is the New Covenant, established through Christ:



Jeremiah 31:31-34 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”


Is the Law written on your heart and mind?

Epoisses
May 2nd, 2016, 10:59 PM
This is the New Covenant, established through Christ:



Jeremiah 31:31-34 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”


Is the Law written on your heart and mind?

Love is the new and greatest commandment that is written in the heart aka the royal law. Faith is also said to be a law in Rom. 3:27. Love and faith are the laws of the new covenant that you reject so you can keep the ministry of death and condemnation.

csuguy
May 2nd, 2016, 11:16 PM
Love is the new and greatest commandment that is written in the heart aka the royal law. Faith is also said to be a law in Rom. 3:27. Love and faith are the laws of the new covenant that you reject so you can keep the ministry of death and condemnation.

Love is not a new Law - clearly you haven't bothered to study the OT in any length. The two Greatest Commandments come from the OT Law. For instance...

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

Epoisses
May 3rd, 2016, 07:51 AM
Love is not a new Law - clearly you haven't bothered to study the OT in any length. The two Greatest Commandments come from the OT Law. For instance...

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

A commandment is a law.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34,35

csuguy
May 3rd, 2016, 08:08 AM
A commandment is a law.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34,35

This is a new commandment, but it is simply an expansion upon the existing law of loving your neighbor as yourself. Now you are to go beyond that, putting the love for others ahead of yourself - as with Christ. To fulfill this commandment you will necessarily need to fulfill the OT law of loving your neighbor as yourself.

So you are correct that there is a new command (never said anything to the contrary) - but you are wrong to assert that "Love" is a new commandment.The two great commandments come straight out of the OT. Furthermore, Christ actually demands more from us than the OT Law in this matter

Epoisses
May 3rd, 2016, 10:12 AM
This is a new commandment, but it is simply an expansion upon the existing law of loving your neighbor as yourself. Now you are to go beyond that, putting the love for others ahead of yourself - as with Christ. To fulfill this commandment you will necessarily need to fulfill the OT law of loving your neighbor as yourself.

So you are correct that there is a new command (never said anything to the contrary) - but you are wrong to assert that "Love" is a new commandment.The two great commandments come straight out of the OT. Furthermore, Christ actually demands more from us than the OT Law in this matter

Everything in the new covenant is 'new'. This is why it is call the new covenant. Love under the old covenant was fear based and had to be performed from a carnal heart. Love under the new covenant is a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit that we receive. You're all about the 'old' so you wouldn't understand.

csuguy
May 3rd, 2016, 06:53 PM
Everything in the new covenant is 'new'. This is why it is call the new covenant. Love under the old covenant was fear based and had to be performed from a carnal heart. Love under the new covenant is a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit that we receive. You're all about the 'old' so you wouldn't understand.

You are making things up as you go along. There are some new things in the New Covenant - like a new high priest and a new priesthood, the forgiveness of sins through Christ, etc. However, scripture doesn't uphold your idea that everything is new - rather it contradicts it.

You've got the same God, who does not change. If loving the Lord was obeying his commandments under the OT, it still is true under the NT - God still desires the same things from us.

Asserting that love under the OT = fear is non-sense. It is even further non-sense to assert that love is not required of us under the New Covenant. Your heart and mind are not set on the Spirit.

I can see that you do not care what the scriptures teach, you simply make up non-sense as you go. I see little point in continuing this discussion with you for the time being. I suggest you go study what the scriptures actually teach instead of blindly asserting whatever you would like to be the case

Epoisses
May 3rd, 2016, 11:14 PM
You are making things up as you go along. There are some new things in the New Covenant - like a new high priest and a new priesthood, the forgiveness of sins through Christ, etc. However, scripture doesn't uphold your idea that everything is new - rather it contradicts it.

You've got the same God, who does not change. If loving the Lord was obeying his commandments under the OT, it still is true under the NT - God still desires the same things from us.

Asserting that love under the OT = fear is non-sense. It is even further non-sense to assert that love is not required of us under the New Covenant. Your heart and mind are not set on the Spirit.

I can see that you do not care what the scriptures teach, you simply make up non-sense as you go. I see little point in continuing this discussion with you for the time being. I suggest you go study what the scriptures actually teach instead of blindly asserting whatever you would like to be the case

I'm not interested in the Judaizing heresy which is so popular today. So you can keep that old law till your heart's content. As for me and my house we will live by God's grace which is free and unmerited.