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6days
April 18th, 2016, 09:47 PM
It is amazing that Hitler so easily stirred hatred towards the Jews, and others. In what us know as 'night of the broken glass' (or night of the knives), Germans attacked the Jews. Mobs of people instigated by Hitlers hatred burned and looted over 8,000 buildings. Beautiful temples, peoples businesses and homes were left in ruins. Many Jews were killed or injured. Some were thrown from upper floor windows.

But....it was not just Germans.... Other European countries fell in line, cooperating with Hitler. And, churches fell in line compromising with evil. Not everyone cooperated with the Nazi's, but most.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was part of a small movement, called the confessional church, within. Nazi Germany. These were Christians who did not compromise on their faith, or cooperate with Hitler. The 'confessional church' resisted Hitler and helped people escape. Bonhoffer was convicted in a kangaroo court of trying to assasinate Hitler... Bonhoffer was hanged.
(Bonhoffer was declared not guilty of high treason in 1996)

Its frightening to think of how easily swayed the masses of people are. Likely most of us think we would be like Bonhoffer and resist evil. But, would we really resist at our peril? Or would people today still be followers? Would most people be willing to hurt those who look or believe differently than themselves? If our government started shipping off all Muslims, or any other group..... Would we resist?

Sonnet
April 18th, 2016, 09:53 PM
It is amazing that Hitler so easily stirred hatred towards the Jews, and others. In what us know as 'night of the broken glass' (or night of the knives), Germans attacked the Jews. Mobs of people instigated by Hitlers hatred burned and looted over 8,000 buildings. Beautiful temples, peoples businesses and homes were left in ruins. Many Jews were killed or injured. Some were thrown from upper floor windows.

But....it was not just Germans.... Other European countries fell in line, cooperating with Hitler. And, churches fell in line compromising with evil. Not everyone cooperated with the Nazi's, but most.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was part of a small movement, called the confessional church, within. Nazi Germany. These were Christians who did not compromise on their faith, or cooperate with Hitler. The 'confessional church' resisted Hitler and helped people escape. Bonhoffer was convicted in a kangaroo court of trying to assasinate Hitler... Bonhoffer was hanged.
(Bonhoffer was declared not guilty of high treason in 1996)

Its frightening to think of how easily swayed the masses of people are. Likely most of us think we would be like Bonhoffer and resist evil. But, would we really resist at our peril? Or would people today still be followers? Would most people be willing to hurt those who look or believe differently than themselves? If our government started shipping off all Muslims, or any other group..... Would we resist?

Interesting.

John 18:15ff

Tambora
April 18th, 2016, 10:52 PM
If our government started shipping off all Muslims, ..... Would we resist?I wouldn't.
I think it's a good idea.

6days
April 18th, 2016, 11:37 PM
I wouldn't.
I think it's a good idea.
We disagree on this Tambora.
Christ shed his blood for them, as He did for us.
Muslims are a mission field of people who are often open to the Gospel.
Most Muslims are sincere in wanting to know God, but have never had anyone share God's love with them.

"Muslims Embracing Jesus Christ After Hearing Gospel, Witnessing Visions of 'Man in White': 'This Harvest Has Not Been Seen In History'" http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/62826/20160310/muslims-embracing-jesus-christ-after-hearing-gospel-witnessing-visions-of-man-in-white-this-harvest-has-not-been-seen-in-history.htm

Or
http://www.christianpost.com/news/kong-hee-indonesia-worlds-biggest-muslim-nation-harvest-field-christianity-158893/

Or
https://www.pinterest.com/ramonapowell/10e-4muslims-coming-to-christ-gospel-shall-be-prea/

Sonnet
April 18th, 2016, 11:57 PM
I wouldn't.
I think it's a good idea.

Why?

Tambora
April 19th, 2016, 09:19 AM
We disagree on this Tambora. I know.



Christ shed his blood for them, as He did for us. Yep.
But that doesn't mean we let them do whatever they want to do.
They do not believe Christ shed his blood for anyone, and they are determined to force their belief on everyone.
They are enemies of God.



"Muslims Embracing Jesus Christ After Hearing Gospel, Witnessing Visions of 'Man in White': 'This Harvest Has Not Been Seen In History'"And they are also deceiving millions.
Many upon the threat of death if they do not convert.

Totton Linnet
April 19th, 2016, 10:07 AM
It is amazing that Hitler so easily stirred hatred towards the Jews, and others. In what us know as 'night of the broken glass' (or night of the knives), Germans attacked the Jews. Mobs of people instigated by Hitlers hatred burned and looted over 8,000 buildings. Beautiful temples, peoples businesses and homes were left in ruins. Many Jews were killed or injured. Some were thrown from upper floor windows.

But....it was not just Germans.... Other European countries fell in line, cooperating with Hitler. And, churches fell in line compromising with evil. Not everyone cooperated with the Nazi's, but most.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was part of a small movement, called the confessional church, within. Nazi Germany. These were Christians who did not compromise on their faith, or cooperate with Hitler. The 'confessional church' resisted Hitler and helped people escape. Bonhoffer was convicted in a kangaroo court of trying to assasinate Hitler... Bonhoffer was hanged.
(Bonhoffer was declared not guilty of high treason in 1996)

Its frightening to think of how easily swayed the masses of people are. Likely most of us think we would be like Bonhoffer and resist evil. But, would we really resist at our peril? Or would people today still be followers? Would most people be willing to hurt those who look or believe differently than themselves? If our government started shipping off all Muslims, or any other group..... Would we resist?

Actually Boenhoffer went along, went along with the Nazis and raised no protest until the last gasp when at last he found he could not remain silent any longer

Good for him he DID at last stand up for the right and he paid the price

But Arabs are not Jews, nobody is advocating killing the Arabs [at least as long as they are not in the military]

We have them ALL in Britain, Pakis, Indians, West Indians, Chinese and all races and colours and creeds in between and we have a great deal of racial tolerance.

But Arabs are different

PureX
April 19th, 2016, 10:49 AM
Hitler and the nazis understood a fundamental flaw in human nature and exploited it. They were't the fist, and they won't be the last.

Most people will diminish others in their minds and behaviors to think and feel themselves superior to those others, in comparison. Most people also will much prefer to blame their problems and difficulties on someone else so that they don't have to admit to or face their own complicity in their own misfortunes. These human character flaws of bigotry and scapegoating have been within us from the dawn of time. And they will likely be with us far into the future.

In Germany in the 20s and 30s, the social climate was ripe for the expression of these character flaws because the German people, in their arrogance, had attacked most of Europe in an attempt at domination, and lost. And by that loss they were humiliated, and made to pay very heavy reparations to the nations they attacked, for the damage their attack had done. So the German people were both frustrated and angry over their heavy debt, and humiliated over their loss at the same time, which made them very ready and willing to regain their sense of personal power by belittling others, and to blame their humiliating defeat on something besides their own arrogance. And Hitler provided them with both. He preached their innate superiority as the "master race", and he gave them plenty of immediate scapegoats to blame all their past failures on: jews, of course, but also gypsies, gays, communists, and various other vulnerable and easily expendable social sub-sects.

He drummed up the bigotry and rage of the population with long incendiary speeches about how the German people had been robbed of their rightful place as the leaders of all humanity by these immoral, conniving, social parasites living among them yet acting only for their own benefit. And when his hate speeches finally generated enough rage and resentment the people rose up, on "Kristallnacht", and began to exact their "righteous vengeance" (that's how they saw it).

And you can bet that many of those participating in the night of terror and abuse were Christians. Christians, who just like most other Germans of the day, were willing to sacrifice the lives of others to the cause of their own egos. Just as there are many among us here in the present day, and all around us, that would do the same.

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 12:04 PM
If our government started shipping off all Nazis, or any other group..... Would we resist?
If our government started shipping off all of the people that are trying to turn our nation into a fascist totalitarian state, why should we resist?

6days
April 20th, 2016, 07:14 AM
If our government started shipping off all of the people that are trying to turn our nation into a fascist totalitarian state, why should we resist?
We should resist and stand up for what we believe in. But, I think there are 50 shades of gray, and we could quickly be drawn in by hatred.....and fail to show love and share Christ. If our government targets people by ethnicity, or religion.....and we go along with that, then are we any different than countries or groups which try drive out Christians from their areas?

6days
April 20th, 2016, 07:30 AM
But that doesn't mean we let them do whatever they want to do.
They do not believe Christ shed his blood for anyone, and they are determined to force their belief on everyone.
They are enemies of God.

And they are also deceiving millions.
Many upon the threat of death if they do not convert.
I too was an enemy of the cross.

Rom. 5 "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son"

Tambora, I'm sure you have heard dramatic stories of people who have life changing experiences after a Christian came along side them, caring about them as a person. I met a fellow a Christian pastor who ministers to Muslims. He was previously a member of the Muslim brotherhood and once beat a Christian man almost to death. He actually thought he had killed the guy, like he was supposed to have done. Fortunately, not all Christians showed hatred towards Wajdi Iskander, and he now shares the love of Christ in the Muslim community in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-eDhhxy0-I

Tambora
April 20th, 2016, 09:08 AM
I too was an enemy of the cross.

Rom. 5 "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son"

Tambora, I'm sure you have heard dramatic stories of people who have life changing experiences after a Christian came along side them, caring about them as a person. I met a fellow a Christian pastor who ministers to Muslims. He was previously a member of the Muslim brotherhood and once beat a Christian man almost to death. He actually thought he had killed the guy, like he was supposed to have done. Fortunately, not all Christians showed hatred towards Wajdi Iskander, and he now shares the love of Christ in the Muslim community in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-eDhhxy0-I
The thing is, there are just as many horror stories.
And those horror stories are worldwide, and increasing at an alarming rate.
No one is stopping any of them from converting.
They don't have to stay here in order to convert.
God has not guaranteed any of us a longer life in the hopes that we might one day convert.
The reason they have not converted is NOT because Christians haven't been nice enough to them.
Even if there were no Christians left to tell them about the gospel, they would still be without excuse.


Romans 1:20 KJV

(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



They are without excuse, so quit making excuses for them.

genuineoriginal
April 20th, 2016, 04:54 PM
If our government started shipping off all Muslims, or any other group..... Would we resist?

If our government targets people by ethnicity, or religion.....and we go along with that, then are we any different than countries or groups which try drive out Christians from their areas?
You seem to have the mistaken idea that the reason the Muslims would be driven out is because of their ethnicity or their religion instead of their acts of terrorism.

6days
April 20th, 2016, 07:46 PM
You seem to have the mistaken idea that the reason the Muslims would be driven out is because of their ethnicity or their religion instead of their acts of terrorism.
I'm not suggesting there are easy answers to terrorism, but I am suggesting its wrong of us not to love and care for our 'Samaritan' neighbors.

genuineoriginal
April 21st, 2016, 06:40 AM
I'm not suggesting there are easy answers to terrorism, but I am suggesting its wrong of us not to love and care for our 'Samaritan' neighbors.
You think coddling them and giving in to their desire to turn the entire earth into a fascist Islamic nation under their rule and Sharia Law through war and bloodshed is something we need to do?
You are mistaken.

According to God, the children of Israel that have returned to the land of promise are protected by Him, the "Palestinians" that wage war against them are not.

Isaiah 54:14-17
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

SonOfCaleb
April 21st, 2016, 09:22 AM
It is amazing that Hitler so easily stirred hatred towards the Jews, and others. In what us know as 'night of the broken glass' (or night of the knives), Germans attacked the Jews. Mobs of people instigated by Hitlers hatred burned and looted over 8,000 buildings. Beautiful temples, peoples businesses and homes were left in ruins. Many Jews were killed or injured. Some were thrown from upper floor windows.

But....it was not just Germans.... Other European countries fell in line, cooperating with Hitler. And, churches fell in line compromising with evil. Not everyone cooperated with the Nazi's, but most.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was part of a small movement, called the confessional church, within. Nazi Germany. These were Christians who did not compromise on their faith, or cooperate with Hitler. The 'confessional church' resisted Hitler and helped people escape. Bonhoffer was convicted in a kangaroo court of trying to assasinate Hitler... Bonhoffer was hanged.
(Bonhoffer was declared not guilty of high treason in 1996)

Its frightening to think of how easily swayed the masses of people are. Likely most of us think we would be like Bonhoffer and resist evil. But, would we really resist at our peril? Or would people today still be followers? Would most people be willing to hurt those who look or believe differently than themselves? If our government started shipping off all Muslims, or any other group..... Would we resist?

The situation regarding the fate of the Jews in Germany is a bit more complex than just acknowledging the herd like behavior of humanity. Unfortunately history isn't told objectively and the first casualty in most conflicts is the truth along with the context (or lack of..) which sets the back drop for how events unfolded the way they did.
The conditions that existed in Germany prior to WW2 were directly attributed to WW1. There was a common sentiment throughout all of Germany that Jewish elites in Germany, the UK and USA were directly responsible for Germany loosing WW1.
Whats often forgotten is that Germany approximately 2 years into the War was actually winning the war and offered the UK and its allies a truce which they refused. As is the case with many conflicts numerous agendas among politicians, corporations, international bankers and powerful men with vested interests were afoot. The international banking cartels for example in the UK and USA funded both sides of the war and made enormous profits. If the UK and its allies had lost the war the bankers stood to loose huge sums of money as both the UK and France effectively bankrupted themselves in what appeared to be a loosing effort against Germany. Thus the International Banks were suitably incentivized to ensure an 'Allied' victory so as not to loose their investments and war profits.

Likewise Britain the then World Empire who viewed Germany as the most significant treat to her Empire coaxed the USA into the war (bearing in mind Wilson off the back of the American Civil War and a somewhat pacifist US populace who were still feeling the effects of the carnage of the Civil War was elected on an anti-war agenda and was completely opposed to involving the USA in what was seen as a European conflict) as they were in desperate need of US help in order to defeat Germany. At the same time the UK was courting very very powerful Jewish lobbyist and interests in the USA. Britain also controlled Palestine hence the Sykes Picot agreement and then the Balfour Declaration that were made during the midst of WW1. Essentially Britain promised this wealthy Jewish lobby a homeland in Palestine. This Jewish state came to fruition after WW2 at the behest of the UN.

The UK and its allies via the Versailles Treaty and the Triple Entente completely ruined Germany financially as well as via the War. The UK and France also divided the spoils of Germany's Empire among themselves. This caused an intense depression in Germany that was worst than the manufactured US depression of 1929. Meanwhile the banking elites and the cartels along with the wealthy Jewish lobby's got even wealthier off the back of all the human misery and suffering.

Off of this backdrop the German media whipped up an intense frenzy against the Jews blaming them solely for the loss of the war. Propaganda was rife that the Jews did well out of the war and were deemed as traitors to the republic. As with most lies there was a small ring of truth to this, as the wealthy Jewish elites in the UK, Germany, across Europe and Jewish Bankers profitedly handsomely from the war. But the average Jew was certainly not to blame for for the political venality that occurred among the ruling classes across Europe and the USA.

Much like the West who re-wrote the events of WW1 to their favour Hitler did exactly the same using the same propaganda techniques that were hatched in the West and used with success to drive support for the War by the West and their patriotic hatred for the 'Hun'. Its important to remember that in the run up to WW2 the West FULLY supported Hitler. He was financed by Banks in the USA and London. The political elite had no problem with him. In fact they praised him and praised this new version of socialism (fascism) that helped rebuild Germany into a potent force for war. Incidentally they did exactly the same with Mussolini.
The King of England Edward who eventually abdicated was a huge supporter of fascism. Likewise the international bankers and financiers in London and the USA featured Hitler in the Time Magazine and proclaimed him as the 'man of the year' in 1938. At no time was the British Government remotely interested in helping the Jewish populace of Germany, other than offering empty platitudes, when it was well known the genocide Hitler was wreaking in the run up to the war. Thus the events leading up to WW2 represent an extremely tragic culmination of a slew of separate but related events that all highlight the miserable nature of the human condition and the lack of humanity toward each other that's been highlighted in the Bible since the book of Genesis.