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Jacob
April 18th, 2016, 07:53 PM
The terms Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread are sometimes used interchangeably. Here are scriptures that are to be read during Passover (Pesach).

Shabbas HaGadol, Haftaras Malachi 3:4-24

Pesach – First Day, Torah Exodus 12:21-51, Maftir Numbers 28:16-25, Haftaras Joshua 3:5-7, 5:2-15, 6:1, 27

Pesach – Second Day, Torah Leviticus 22:26-23:44, Maftir Numbers 28:16-25, Haftaras 2 Kings 23:1-9; 21-25

Pesach – Shabbas Chol Hamoed, Torah Exodus 33:12-34:26, Maftir Numbers 28:19-25

Pesach – Seventh Day, Torah Exodus 13:17-15:26, Maftir Numbers 28:19-25

Pesach – Last Day, Torah Deuteronomy 15:19-16:17, on the Sabbath Deuteronomy 14:22-16:17, Maftir Numbers 28:19-25

Epoisses
April 18th, 2016, 11:31 PM
Why don't you keep the Lord's supper? Because you reject the new covenant of grace?

Jacob
April 18th, 2016, 11:34 PM
Why don't you keep the Lord's supper? Because you reject the new covenant of grace?
What are you asking? I don't know what the new covenant of grace is, but I know what the new covenant is.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 08:05 AM
The terms Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread are sometimes used interchangeably. Here are scriptures that are to be read during Passover (Pesach).


You missed all the NT scriptures about Jesus' Passover for believers. The law was changed, especially with regard to Passover.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 08:16 AM
You missed all the NT scriptures about Jesus' Passover for believers. The law was changed, especially with regard to Passover.

Do you believe Jesus observed the Passover with His disciples?


Matthew 26:2 NASB - "You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man is to be handed over for crucifixion."

Matthew 26:17 NASB - Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?"

Matthew 26:18 NASB - And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, "My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples."'"

Matthew 26:19 NASB - The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover.

Mark 14:1 NASB - Now the Passover and Unleavened Bread were two days away; and the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to seize Him by stealth and kill Him;

Mark 14:12 NASB - On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, His disciples said to Him, "Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?"

Mark 14:14 NASB - and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher says, "Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?"'

Mark 14:16 NASB - The disciples went out and came to the city, and found it just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.

Luke 2:41 NASB - Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.

Luke 22:1 NASB - Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching.

Luke 22:7 NASB - Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.

Luke 22:8 NASB - And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it."

Luke 22:11 NASB - "And you shall say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher says to you, "Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?"'

Luke 22:13 NASB - And they left and found everything just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.

Luke 22:15 NASB - And He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;

John 2:13 NASB - The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 2:23 NASB - Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing.

John 6:4 NASB - Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.

John 11:55 NASB - Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the country before the Passover to purify themselves.

John 12:1 NASB - Jesus, therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.

John 13:1 NASB - Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.

John 18:28 NASB - Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas into the Praetorium, and it was early; and they themselves did not enter into the Praetorium so that they would not be defiled, but might eat the Passover.

John 18:39 NASB - "But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?"

John 19:14 NASB - Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold, your King!"

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 08:27 AM
Do you believe Jesus observed the Passover with His disciples?



Now the Passover, a feast of the Jews, was near. (John 6:4)

Jesus did not keep the Passover of the Jews which was the night that followed his execution.

Jesus kept God's NT Passover which does not require circumcision. The law was changed on how to observe Passover.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 08:29 AM
Now the Passover, a feast of the Jews, was near. (John 6:4)

Jesus did not keep the Passover of the Jews which was the night that followed his execution.

Jesus kept God's NT Passover which does not require circumcision. The law was changed on how to observe Passover.

I believe Jesus observed and taught the Law. I don't see Passover as an exception. Did you read the verses provided, which all contain the word Passover?

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 11:40 AM
I believe Jesus observed and taught the Law. I don't see Passover as an exception. Did you read the verses provided, which all contain the word Passover?


It's a sin to put Moses ahead of God the Son. You ought to obey God instead of making an idol of the Torah.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 11:46 AM
Why don't you keep the Lord's supper?


Paul asked, "What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in?" (1 Corinthians 11:22)

Jesus observed his Passover after supper. (Luke 22:20)

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 11:58 AM
It's a sin to put Moses ahead of God the Son. You ought to obey God instead of making an idol of the Torah.
The words of God say to obey His commandments.
God gave His commandments to His people through Moses.
Moses did not make up the Passover regulations, they were given to him by God Himself, face to face.

You seem to think that Jesus never obeyed the Torah and never taught His disciples the correct way to obey the Torah.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 12:18 PM
Moses did not make up the Passover regulations, they were given to him by God Himself, face to face.


And God changed the law through Paul face to face.

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 12:23 PM
And God changed the law through Paul face to face.
God's Law is unchanging and unchangeable.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 12:25 PM
You seem to think that Jesus never obeyed the Torah and never taught His disciples the correct way to obey the Torah.


Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Jesus changed the law to make it comply with God's covenant with Abraham and Christ. The Mosaic law was not added to the Abrahamic covenant and is not applicable to the church of God.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 12:29 PM
It's a sin to put Moses ahead of God the Son. You ought to obey God instead of making an idol of the Torah.I already believe Jesus is the Son of God, but either way Torah is the word of God and meant to be studied and understood. Don't stop at Torah, but don't miss Torah.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 12:31 PM
I already believe Jesus is the Son of God, but either way Torah is the word of God and meant to be studied and understood. Don't stop at Torah, but don't miss Torah.


Obey your last instruction first.

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 12:32 PM
Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Jesus changed the law to make it comply with God's covenant with Abraham and Christ. The Mosaic law was not added to the Abrahamic covenant and is not applicable to the church of God.
God provided examples of how His Law works through the laws of the Medes and the Persians.

Daniel 6:15
15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.

In the same manner, no covenant of God may be changed.
Man has no power to change God's covenants.
God has no desire nor reason to change His covenants.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 12:34 PM
I already believe Jesus is the Son of God, but either way Torah is the word of God and meant to be studied and understood. Don't stop at Torah, but don't miss Torah.


Jesus said he came to fulfill the Torah. To comply with the Abrahamic covenant there needed to be some changes to God's instructions.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 12:36 PM
Jesus said he came to fulfill the Torah. To comply with the Abrahamic covenant there needed to be some changes to God's instructions.
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not to abolish them.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 12:39 PM
Jesus said he came to fulfill the Torah.
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Torah.
If your idea of what Jesus did with the Torah ends with it being abolished, then you are completely mistaken over what Jesus did.

To comply with the Abrahamic covenant there needed to be some changes to God's instructions.
There is no need for the Law to be changed to comply with the Abrahamic covenant.
However, there was a need for the New Covenant to be created on top of the Old Covenant.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 02:36 PM
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Torah.
If your idea of what Jesus did with the Torah ends with it being abolished, then you are completely mistaken over what Jesus did.


Ok, so you did not understand what I said. You're off on a tangent.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 02:38 PM
In the same manner, no covenant of God may be changed.


God didn't change the covenant, he changed the law.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 02:42 PM
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not to abolish them.


And one of his fulfillments was to update the law so that it is compliant with the Abrahamic covenant which preceded Mosaic law.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 02:47 PM
And one of his fulfillments was to update the law so that it is compliant with the Abrahamic covenant which preceded Mosaic law.

I don't know if update is accurate.

There are many covenants in the Bible.

The covenant God made with the nation of Israel did follow the covenant God made with Abraham. The new covenant in Jesus Christ God's Son came after this, and is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 02:52 PM
The new covenant in Jesus Christ God's Son came after this, and is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.


And has nothing to do with Jesus' congregations of spiritual Israel.

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 02:53 PM
God didn't change the covenant, he changed the law.

The Law is part of the covenant.
Not one yud (י the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet) nor one tittle (stroke of a pen that makes the difference between a ר and a ד or between a ו and a ן) has been changed.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 02:55 PM
And has nothing to do with Jesus' congregations of spiritual Israel.

I don't know what you are talking about. I have no idea what you mean by spiritual Israel. I don't find your idea in scripture either; your whole idea expressed here is not found in scripture.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 04:13 PM
The Law is part of the covenant.
Not one yud (י the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet) nor one tittle (stroke of a pen that makes the difference between a ר and a ד or between a ו and a ן) has been changed.


The Hebrew Bible has not been changed but there is a new testament consistent with the Abrahamic covenant which updates the Law of Moses.


Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. (Hebrews 7:11-12)

Has the priesthood been changed?

genuineoriginal
April 19th, 2016, 04:18 PM
The Hebrew Bible has not been changed but there is a new testament consistent with the Abrahamic covenant which updates the Law of Moses.


Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. (Hebrews 7:11-12)

Has the priesthood been changed?
If there are still day and night in their seasons, then God has not broken the covenant with the Levites as priests.

Jeremiah 33:19-21
19 And the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah, saying,
20 Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 04:32 PM
And has nothing to do with Jesus' congregations of spiritual Israel.
What do you mean Jesus' congregation of spiritual Israel? Owing to the absence of spiritual Israel in scripture, I would have to agree.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 05:49 PM
What do you mean Jesus' congregation of spiritual Israel?



For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Does the Torah teach that circumcision nor uncircumcision avails nothing? Is that what you believe?

Through Jesus Christ the people of Israel can become spiritual Israel, the Israel of God. Jesus said the flesh profits nothing.

You are tied up doing works of the Jewish law, but for what purpose?

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 05:52 PM
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Does the Torah teach that circumcision nor uncircumcision avails nothing? Is that what you believe?
The Torah reveals people of faith who were uncircumcised and circumcised.


Through Jesus Christ the people of Israel can become spiritual Israel, the Israel of God. Jesus said the flesh profits nothing.I have no idea where that doctrine comes from.


You are tied up doing works of the Jewish law, but for what purpose?Obedience to God is important. The Torah has not changed. Not all believers observe Torah.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 06:05 PM
Not all believers observe Torah.


And why would they?

Jacob
April 19th, 2016, 06:07 PM
And why would they?

A person who observes Torah may be a believer or not. A person who does not observe Torah may be a believer or not.

jamie
April 19th, 2016, 06:09 PM
A person who observes Torah may be a believer or not. A person who does not observe Torah may be a believer or not.


:sigh: :wave:

genuineoriginal
April 20th, 2016, 04:47 PM
Not all believers observe Torah.

And why would they?
You should not ask why one believer observes the Torah and why another believer does not.

Romans 14:2-6
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Jacob
April 20th, 2016, 05:05 PM
You should not ask why one believer observes the Torah and why another believer does not.

Romans 14:2-6
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Do you believe that this should be interpreted in light of Torah?

jamie
April 20th, 2016, 05:05 PM
You should not ask why one believer observes the Torah and why another believer does not.


Why not? The Torah can be discussed on TOL and I suspect he has a reason for observing it. I would like to know his motivation.

genuineoriginal
April 20th, 2016, 05:15 PM
Do you believe that this should be interpreted in light of Torah?
The statutes and judgments in the Torah are the most righteous ones ever devised, since they were the ones God made.

Deuteronomy 4:8
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Who can say whether the Christians that choose to follow the Torah are right or wrong?
Only God can say.

jamie
April 20th, 2016, 06:45 PM
Who can say whether the Christians that choose to follow the Torah are right or wrong?
Only God can say.


What was the decision of the apostles and elders at the Jerusalem conference?

genuineoriginal
April 21st, 2016, 06:32 AM
What was the decision of the apostles and elders at the Jerusalem conference?
Many Christians are taught that even following these four restrictions is putting your self under the law.

Acts 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
However, these four are the minimum acts of obedience required by the leaders of the Jerusalem church of new Gentile believers, not the maximum voluntary obedience that a believer can choose for himself.

There was not a single person that thought it strange that thousands of believers were zealous of the law during those days.

Acts 21:20
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Jacob
March 29th, 2017, 02:43 PM
The statutes and judgments in the Torah are the most righteous ones ever devised, since they were the ones God made.

Deuteronomy 4:8
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Who can say whether the Christians that choose to follow the Torah are right or wrong?
Only God can say.
Shalom.

God bless you and your studies. I know this was a year ago. Thank you. God bless.

Shalom.

Jacob

jamie
March 29th, 2017, 02:56 PM
And the LORD said to me: "What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him." (Deuteronomy 18:17-19)

You're listening to Moses when you should be listening to the Father who spoke through Jesus.

It's the Father's words that will be required of you.

Tnkrbl123!
March 29th, 2017, 04:23 PM
God's Law is unchanging and unchangeable.

Amen! This is very true. God does not change, nor does His law!

Tnkrbl123!
March 29th, 2017, 04:33 PM
God's Law is unchanging and unchangeable.




There is no need for the Law to be changed to comply with the Abrahamic covenant.
However, there was a need for the New Covenant to be created on top of the Old Covenant.

I agree with you but I will add that the New Covenant was established before the world began. It was only revealed in God's perfect time :)

jamie
March 29th, 2017, 04:36 PM
Amen! This is very true. God does not change, nor does His law!


Does the NT teach the Law of Moses?

Tnkrbl123!
March 29th, 2017, 04:39 PM
God's Law is unchanging and unchangeable.


Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Jesus changed the law to make it comply with God's covenant with Abraham and Christ. The Mosaic law was not added to the Abrahamic covenant and is not applicable to the church of God.

But the New Testament scripture tells us that the Mosaic law is still applicable to the church of today, and will be until the world passes away.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." - Matthew 5:17-18

Tnkrbl123!
March 29th, 2017, 04:48 PM
God's Law is unchanging and unchangeable.


Does the NT teach the Law of Moses?

This is what the New Testament says,

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." - Matthew 5:17-18

Jacob
March 29th, 2017, 09:57 PM
And the LORD said to me: "What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him." (Deuteronomy 18:17-19)

You're listening to Moses when you should be listening to the Father who spoke through Jesus.

It's the Father's words that will be required of you.

Moses is a prophet of God. Jesus is the prophet foretold. Shalom.

Jacob

S-word
March 30th, 2017, 12:56 AM
Do you believe Jesus observed the Passover with His disciples?


YES! Concerning the day of Passover, the Lord says in Exodus 12: 14; “You must celebrate ‘THIS DAY’*as a religious festival to remind you of what I, the Lord have done, Celebrate it (One day)*for all time to come.

Numbers 28: 16; The Passover Festival in honour of the Lord, is to be held on the 14th day of the first month. On the fifteenth day a religious festival begins which lasts seven days, during which, only unleavened bread is to be eaten. On the first day of the seven day festival of unleavened bread, (The 15th day of Abib) you are to gather for worship and no work is to be done………………. On the last day (The 21st of Abib) you must meet for worship and do no work.

Numbers 33: 3; the people of Israel left Egypt on the 15th day of the first month of the year, the DAY 'AFTER' the first Passover.

The Jews may have abandoned God’s one day festival of Passover, and incorporated it into their first day of Unleavened Bread, but not Jesus. He kept it on the day commanded by the Lord, the evening of the 14 day of Abib.

There was no slaughtered lamb that night, because Jesus was the reality of the sacrificial Lamb, and he offered his symbolic body to his disciples, Luke 22:19-20; 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

The fact that it was the Passover meal that he ate with his disciples, is verified in Luke 22: 15; where Jesus said to his disciples; “I have wanted so much to eat this Passover meal with you before I suffer.

Because the Jews had abandoned the one day festival of Passover and incorporated the Passover meal into the evening of the 15th, the first of their seven day festival of unleavened bread, the 14th day of the month became their day of preparation to their Passover.

Their day consisted of a period of 12 hours of darkness followed by a 12 hour period of light.

The 6th hour of the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover meal, when Pilate sentenced Jesus to death, was Midnight. He was nailed to the cross on the 3rd hour 9AM of the 12 hour period of light on the dayof preparation to the Jewish Passover, Darkness covered the land at the 6th hour, midday, of the day of preparation, and he died at the 9th hour, 3PM, between the two evenings when the Pascal lambs were to be killed.

He was buried as the sun was setting on the 14th day of the month, Just as the Jews were preparing to eat their Pascal lamb which had been killed between the two evenings of the day of preparation.

To the Jews, the first evening began at midday when the sun begins its descent and the 12th hour, 6PM when the sun began to dip below the horizon.

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 08:37 AM
But the New Testament scripture tells us that the Mosaic law is still applicable to the church of today, and will be until the world passes away.


If you mean the ordinances given to Jacob's people, they were temporary.

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 08:39 AM
Moses is a prophet of God. Jesus is the prophet foretold.


:duh: :carryon: :cow:

daqq
March 30th, 2017, 10:15 AM
Does the NT teach the Law of Moses?

Yep, everything flows from the Torah, even the Prophets are expounding from the Torah; and the Testimony of Messiah is expounding the difference between "the works of the Law" and the Spirit of the Torah. For instance, If an ox shall butt with the horns against a manservant or a maidservant; the master-owner of that ox shall give unto the master of the manservant or maidservant thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned. But if the manservant or the maidservant pushes back, and does the same amount of hurt to the ox, shall the master-owner of the ox still owe the thirty shekels of silver? I think not. Therefore when a wild ox or a wild bull of Bashan butts against you with its horns: turn the other cheek, and the master of that ox or bull will owe your Master thirty shekels of heavenly silver, and your reward shall be in heavenly shekels. But if you butt, and kick, and push back with your own horns of power; do you not have your reward already? :)

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 12:33 PM
Yep, everything flows from the Torah...


Is that why the priesthood and temple have been changed?

Or do those not count?

daqq
March 30th, 2017, 12:51 PM
Is that why the priesthood and temple have been changed?

Or do those not count?

Well, "changed" is a poor word to describe what happened to Enoch. It is more like transformed, just as Enoch; still the same but Spirit instead of carnal and physical. Now all you need is to go check the wording rendered "change" in most English translations of what you are most likely referring to and perhaps you may see that the same author uses the same wording for the metamorphosis-translation-transformation of Enoch. This is not something that was thought of as being a "new" teaching with the first century congregations, but rather, most all of the Rabbins believed and taught that this would indeed be the very reason for Messiah to come, when he came, that is, to fully expound the Torah so that we may understand it in the way it was originally intended, and therefore walk in it, in Spirit and in truth. Even Paul tells you that the Torah is spiritual, in Rom 7:14, and at the end of that passage he expounds the different uses concerning Torah of Elohim, which is Torah of the mind, (Horeb, and of above) and Torah of sin, which is Torah against the flesh and all its carnal nature, (Sinai, and of below). :)

jamie
March 30th, 2017, 02:15 PM
The Law of Moses prohibited any modifications or changes, no additions, no deletions.

Jacob
March 30th, 2017, 02:41 PM
YES! Concerning the day of Passover, the Lord says in Exodus 12: 14; “You must celebrate ‘THIS DAY’*as a religious festival to remind you of what I, the Lord have done, Celebrate it (One day)*for all time to come.

Numbers 28: 16; The Passover Festival in honour of the Lord, is to be held on the 14th day of the first month. On the fifteenth day a religious festival begins which lasts seven days, during which, only unleavened bread is to be eaten. On the first day of the seven day festival of unleavened bread, (The 15th day of Abib) you are to gather for worship and no work is to be done………………. On the last day (The 21st of Abib) you must meet for worship and do no work.

Numbers 33: 3; the people of Israel left Egypt on the 15th day of the first month of the year, the DAY 'AFTER' the first Passover.

The Jews may have abandoned God’s one day festival of Passover, and incorporated it into their first day of Unleavened Bread, but not Jesus. He kept it on the day commanded by the Lord, the evening of the 14 day of Abib.

There was no slaughtered lamb that night, because Jesus was the reality of the sacrificial Lamb, and he offered his symbolic body to his disciples, Luke 22:19-20; 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

The fact that it was the Passover meal that he ate with his disciples, is verified in Luke 22: 15; where Jesus said to his disciples; “I have wanted so much to eat this Passover meal with you before I suffer.

Because the Jews had abandoned the one day festival of Passover and incorporated the Passover meal into the evening of the 15th, the first of their seven day festival of unleavened bread, the 14th day of the month became their day of preparation to their Passover.

Their day consisted of a period of 12 hours of darkness followed by a 12 hour period of light.

The 6th hour of the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover meal, when Pilate sentenced Jesus to death, was Midnight. He was nailed to the cross on the 3rd hour 9AM of the 12 hour period of light on the dayof preparation to the Jewish Passover, Darkness covered the land at the 6th hour, midday, of the day of preparation, and he died at the 9th hour, 3PM, between the two evenings when the Pascal lambs were to be killed.

He was buried as the sun was setting on the 14th day of the month, Just as the Jews were preparing to eat their Pascal lamb which had been killed between the two evenings of the day of preparation.

To the Jews, the first evening began at midday when the sun begins its descent and the 12th hour, 6PM when the sun began to dip below the horizon.

Keep studying. The first month on the Jewish or Hebrew calendar is Aviv. Shalom. Jacob

daqq
March 30th, 2017, 03:20 PM
The Law of Moses prohibited any modifications or changes, no additions, no deletions.

The Torah of Moses foretells Ho Erchomenos, (Deuteronomy 18:15-22, Luke 7:19-28).

genuineoriginal
June 29th, 2017, 12:47 PM
And the LORD said to me: "What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him." (Deuteronomy 18:17-19)

You're listening to Moses when you should be listening to the Father who spoke through Jesus.

It's the Father's words that will be required of you.
Are you ignoring the Father's words because He said them to Moses?
Is that how you honor the Father?

genuineoriginal
June 29th, 2017, 12:48 PM
I agree with you but I will add that the New Covenant was established before the world began. It was only revealed in God's perfect time :)

That statement sounds like you believe in Calvin's heresy that neither God nor man has free will.
:doh:

genuineoriginal
June 29th, 2017, 12:55 PM
The Law of Moses prohibited any modifications or changes, no additions, no deletions.
The Law prohibits man from adding to the Law.

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
The Bible speaks about the law of the Medes and Persians (Esther and Daniel) and how the king can add to the law, but not change nor delete from the law.

Daniel 6:15
15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.
In the same way God, the King, has added to His Law in the New Testament, but He has not changed a single jot nor tittle of His Law that He gave through Moses.

jamie
June 29th, 2017, 06:33 PM
The Law prohibits man from adding to the Law.


The Law of Moses was temporary, the Law of the Spirit is everlasting.

patrick jane
June 29th, 2017, 06:58 PM
The Law of Moses was temporary, the Law of the Spirit is everlasting.Another quote from Mrs. Obvious

jamie
June 29th, 2017, 10:10 PM
Another quote from Mrs. Obvious


The law of Moses was not the law Jesus referred to in Matthew 5:17.