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Word
April 15th, 2016, 09:14 PM
Adam was made flesh,
Adam was not born of flesh.

When was Jesus made flesh?

Epoisses
April 15th, 2016, 09:17 PM
When he was born.

jamie
April 15th, 2016, 10:01 PM
Adam was made flesh,
Adam was not born of flesh.

When was Jesus made flesh?


At conception. (Matthew 1:20)(Luke 2:21)

patrick jane
April 15th, 2016, 10:05 PM
When he was born.
Good answer

Word
April 16th, 2016, 01:04 AM
When he was born.

Was He born of flesh?

Word
April 16th, 2016, 01:05 AM
At conception. (Matthew 1:20)(Luke 2:21)

When was He conceived?

jamie
April 16th, 2016, 08:26 AM
When was He conceived?


Approximately nine months before he was born in the spring of 5 BCE.

jamie
April 16th, 2016, 11:17 AM
When he was born.


Yes, many people claim life begins at birth. That way they can claim that the unborn are not persons and can hire an abortion doctor to tear the baby to shreds and dispose of the pieces as biohazard waste.

As for me, I believe life begins at conception when he or she is attached to the mother. Since I believe life begins at conception I believe the unborn will be resurrected at the second resurrection.

The motto for the unborn should be, "Be patient ... God isn't finished with me yet."

Epoisses
April 16th, 2016, 02:11 PM
Yes, many people claim life begins at birth. That way they can claim that the unborn are not persons and can hire an abortion doctor to tear the baby to shreds and dispose of the pieces as biohazard waste.

As for me, I believe life begins at conception when he or she is attached to the mother. Since I believe life begins at conception I believe the unborn will be resurrected at the second resurrection.

The motto for the unborn should be, "Be patient ... God isn't finished with me yet."

Life begins at the cross and ends when you turn away.

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

Word
April 16th, 2016, 02:57 PM
Life begins at the cross and ends when you turn away.

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

There was no life before the cross?

Word
April 16th, 2016, 02:59 PM
Yes, many people claim life begins at birth. That way they can claim that the unborn are not persons and can hire an abortion doctor to tear the baby to shreds and dispose of the pieces as biohazard waste.

As for me, I believe life begins at conception when he or she is attached to the mother. Since I believe life begins at conception I believe the unborn will be resurrected at the second resurrection.

The motto for the unborn should be, "Be patient ... God isn't finished with me yet."
Did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

jamie
April 16th, 2016, 03:32 PM
Did Jesus exist before He was conceived?


Jesus was not the Son of God until he became the Son of Man, however, Christ was in the beginning with God and was God.

Christ was not the Most High God, Christ was the less high God.

Before Jesus was conceived he was the Christ from the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:3-4)

Word
April 16th, 2016, 04:13 PM
Christ was in the beginning with God and was God.
The beginning of what?

jamie
April 16th, 2016, 04:18 PM
The beginning of what?


The beginning of human history. (John 1:1-2)

Word
April 16th, 2016, 04:30 PM
Christ was not the Most High God, Christ was the less high God.
2 Gods one greater than the other?

jamie
April 16th, 2016, 06:22 PM
2 Gods one greater than the other?


Yes. (Hebrews 1:9)

keypurr
April 16th, 2016, 09:46 PM
2 Gods one greater than the other?

One God and one Lord.

Aletheiophile
April 16th, 2016, 09:56 PM
Did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

Of course.

Nang
April 16th, 2016, 10:15 PM
Of course.

Christ, the Son of God was eternally generated, but Jesus, the Son of Man came into being in the fullness of time, when conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Aletheiophile
April 16th, 2016, 11:07 PM
Christ, the Son of God was eternally generated, but Jesus, the Son of Man came into being in the fullness of time, when conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

What if He is both generate and ingenerate? What if He is timelessly God and timelessly man?

Nang
April 16th, 2016, 11:31 PM
What if He is both generate and ingenerate? What if He is timelessly God and timelessly man?

No such thing as "ingenerate."

No such thing as "timeless" flesh.

No such notional teaching is found in Holy Scripture.

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 05:40 AM
Adam was made flesh,
Adam was not born of flesh.

When was Jesus made flesh?

Who was Jesus that it was necessary for Him to become flesh?

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 05:45 AM
What if He is both generate and ingenerate? What if He is timelessly God and timelessly man?

Can't be. Humanity was a creation. Jesus needed both a Father and a mother for His conception. There is more to be said but, lets start there.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:16 AM
No such thing as "ingenerate."

No such thing as "timeless" flesh.

No such notional teaching is found in Holy Scripture.


Can't be. Humanity was a creation. Jesus needed both a Father and a mother for His conception. There is more to be said but, lets start there.

I misspoke, or rather I did not think thoroughly before typing. He is not timelessly human. I am referring to Ignatius in using generate and ingenerate. For in his divinity He is ingenerate, and in his humanity he is generate, or created. He became flesh at conception when Mary heard and believed the divine Word. (But not in the same manner that immaterial and material creation is created.)

What I was trying to express when I said timeless human, is that the Logos was always intended to take on flesh. Him becoming man was not a "new" thing. In the mind of God, the Logos would always have become flesh. So it does not represent a change in essential essence, but merely a phenomenological change of The Uncreated entering the created order to make creation compatible with the creator.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:40 AM
What I was trying to express when I said timeless human, is that the Logos was always intended to take on flesh. Him becoming man was not a "new" thing. In the mind of God, the Logos would always have become flesh. So it does not represent a change in essential essence, but merely a phenomenological change of The Uncreated entering the created order to make creation compatible with the creator.


Nice, well said. :thumb:

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:49 AM
One God and one Lord.


The term "god" and the term "lord" are titles. Paul said, "...yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

However, the Father has given the Son the capability of imparting eternal life, which makes Jesus also God.

There is one God in the same way our nation is one nation, but not one person. You don't comprehend the kingdom of God.

E pluribus unum.

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 08:56 AM
I misspoke, or rather I did not think thoroughly before typing. He is not timelessly human. I am referring to Ignatius in using generate and ingenerate. For in his divinity He is ingenerate, and in his humanity he is generate, or created. He became flesh at conception when Mary heard and believed the divine Word. (But not in the same manner that immaterial and material creation is created.)

What I was trying to express when I said timeless human, is that the Logos was always intended to take on flesh. Him becoming man was not a "new" thing. In the mind of God, the Logos would always have become flesh. So it does not represent a change in essential essence, but merely a phenomenological change of The Uncreated entering the created order to make creation compatible with the creator.


Thank you, however, you still come up short in you understanding if you do not accept the fact that you and I, if in Christ, possess the same uncreated life by our new birth. By that same fact we can conclude the only difference between Jesus and us is we were born in sin, He wasn't. This makes His Divine conception to be the only way for His human existence, i.e., the need for a sinless human sacrifice for man's redemption, nothing else. A sinless being had come into Adam's race from the outside. Everything else Jesus did could have been done by, and many times was done by, anyone God chose. Paul worked this out by his life for our understanding.

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 09:03 AM
The term "god" and the term "lord" are titles. Paul said, "...yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

However, the Father has given the Son the capability of imparting eternal life, which makes Jesus also God.


Not yet. All you said did not make Him God. #1 Jesus never imparted eternal life. 2 Eternal life is not imparted but imputed. #3 God trusted Jesus to the utmost in handling His Glory. God witheld nothing from Jesus because of that same trust.

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one" . . John 17:22 (KJV)

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 09:11 AM
By that same fact we can conclude the only difference between Jesus and us is we were born in sin, He wasn't.


This is not biblical. What Paul said is this: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned." (Romans 8:5)

The exception was Jesus. He was born with a carnal mind the same as everyone else but he had the holy Spirit to keep him without spot.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 09:21 AM
Eternal life is not imparted but imputed.


Not true, imparted means to give, to bestow. Eternal life is a gift, it is imparted.


...as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. (John 17:2)

Impart means to give. Jesus gives eternal life and is the last to do so. He is the last Adam.

Adam imparted life, he did not impute life.

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 09:25 AM
Not true, imparted means to give, to bestow. Eternal life is a gift, it is imparted.


Imputed means gift/gifted. Imparted is as a one being qualified to receive.

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 09:27 AM
This is not biblical. What Paul said is this: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned." (Romans 8:5)

The exception was Jesus. He was born with a carnal mind the same as everyone else but he had the holy Spirit to keep him without spot.

I am not going to argue this out with you. You are wrong. Get a dictionary.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 09:44 AM
Imputed means gift/gifted. Imparted is as a one being qualified to receive.


In Theology: ascribe (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to someone by virtue of a similar quality in another.
"Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us" (Merriam-Webster)

Cross Reference
April 17th, 2016, 01:41 PM
In Theology: ascribe (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to someone by virtue of a similar quality in another.
"Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us" (Merriam-Webster)

"Christ's righteousness has been imputed, [gifted] to us". I said that. Thanks for agreeing.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 01:53 PM
"Christ's righteousness has been imputed, [gifted] to us". I said that. Thanks for agreeing.


Full Definition of impart

transitive verb

1: to give, convey, or grant from or as if from a store <her experience imparted authority to her words> <the flavor imparted by herbs>


Full Definition of impute

imputedimputing

transitive verb

1: to lay the responsibility or blame for often falsely or unjustly

2: to credit to a person or a cause : attribute <our vices as well as our virtues have been imputed to bodily derangement — B. N. Cardozo>

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 03:31 PM
Thank you, however, you still come up short in you understanding if you do not accept the fact that you and I, if in Christ, possess the same uncreated life by our new birth. By that same fact we can conclude the only difference between Jesus and us is we were born in sin, He wasn't. This makes His Divine conception to be the only way for His human existence, i.e., the need for a sinless human sacrifice for man's redemption, nothing else. A sinless being had come into Adam's race from the outside. Everything else Jesus did could have been done by, and many times was done by, anyone God chose. Paul worked this out by his life for our understanding.

Talk more. I think I agree with you, so far I concur with all that you've put forth. Can you elaborate more?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 03:59 PM
Of course.

In what image did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:04 PM
Who was Jesus that it was necessary for Him to become flesh?

Who are you that it was necessary
for you to become flesh?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:05 PM
One God and one Lord.

Who is the Lord God?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:07 PM
Can't be. Humanity was a creation. Jesus needed both a Father and a mother for His conception. There is more to be said but, lets start there.
Did God create His only begotten Son?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:21 PM
One God and one Lord.

If Jesus is the Lord of Lords
would that not indicate there is more than one Lord?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 04:40 PM
In what image did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

The Father. Colossians 1:15

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:41 PM
The Father. Colossians 1:15

What image is the Father?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 04:47 PM
What image is the Father?

You have to understand what image is. Image is eikon defined by Zodhiates as:

Eikon, image, always assumes a prototype, that which it not merely resembles, but from which it is drawn...Eikon includes and involves the resemblance of similitude.

God is not in the image of anything. He is the prototype for and source of the image.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:49 PM
You have to understand what image is. Image is eikon defined by Zodhiates as:

Eikon, image, always assumes a prototype, that which it not merely resembles, but from which it is drawn...Eikon includes and involves the resemblance of similitude.

God is not in the image of anything. He is the prototype for and source of the image.

Is God a Spirit?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 04:51 PM
Is God a Spirit?

He is not a spirit. He is Spirit. But He is not bound to our understanding from spirit. He is the source of all things spiritual, and is not subordinate to what "Spirit" implies.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:53 PM
"Christ's righteousness has been imputed, [gifted] to us". I said that. Thanks for agreeing.

Who imputed righteousness to Christ?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:54 PM
He is not a spirit. He is Spirit. But He is not bound to our understanding from spirit. He is the source of all things spiritual, and is not subordinate to what "Spirit" implies.Is there more than one Spirit?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 04:56 PM
He is not a spirit. He is Spirit. But He is not bound to our understanding from spirit. He is the source of all things spiritual, and is not subordinate to what "Spirit" implies.What is the differences between Spirit and a spirit?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 04:59 PM
Is there more than one Spirit?

Of course there are spirits. But God is not one among many. He is THE Spirit which gave all breath of life to all other spirits (all of which have some outer form.)

Word
April 17th, 2016, 05:06 PM
Of course there are spirits. But God is not one among many. He is THE Spirit which gave all breath of life to all other spirits (all of which have some outer form.)Is God the Father of all spirits?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 05:07 PM
Is God the Father of all spirits?

What are you getting at with all of these weirds questions? I can't tell if you're inquiring or challenging.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 05:12 PM
What are you getting at with all of these weirds questions? I can't tell if you're inquiring or challenging.
I have heard the truth will make me free.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 05:19 PM
I have heard the truth will make me free.

So then you are inquiring?

Alright then.

You could say that God is the Father of all Spirits, but He did not father them in the proper sense of the word. He is the originator and life-giver. We only call Him Father because we are adopted through Christ.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 05:27 PM
So then you are inquiring?

Alright then.

You could say that God is the Father of all Spirits, but He did not father them in the proper sense of the word. He is the originator and life-giver. We only call Him Father because we are adopted through Christ.Then the truth is that God
is not your Spiritual Father because
you are not really born of the Spirit of God.

Just as someone adopted by their non biological parents
are not born of the same flesh as they.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 05:46 PM
Then the truth is that God
is not your Spiritual Father because
you are not really born of the Spirit of God.

Just as someone adopted by their non biological parents
are not born of the same flesh as they.

No. The Spirit is breathed by God. Genesis 2:7. So He is the origin of all Spiritual life. But because we communed with the serpent, our Spiritual communion with God ceased, and thus the rest of mankind is born in Spiritual death.

But God sent for His Word to be incarnate, authentically God and authentically man. On the cross, God put upon him the guilt for all sin (2 Corinthians 5:21), that we might become righteous. Believers are crucified with Christ, and thus are dead physically by faith (for we are already spiritually dead). But resurrected with Christ, His Life is ours, by His Spirit. He has us. Because the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, He is directly our father through Christ. We are in Christ, and Christ is of the Father.

It is not a mere legal adoption. We are made into the image of Christ -- 2 Corinthians 3:18; Romans 8:29 -- just as Christ is the image of the Father. As Christ talks about the second birth of Spirit (John 3), this is being born of Spirit.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 06:09 PM
No. The Spirit is breathed by God. Genesis 2:7. So He is the origin of all Spiritual life. But because we communed with the serpent, our Spiritual communion with God ceased, and thus the rest of mankind is born in Spiritual death.

But God sent for His Word to be incarnate, authentically God and authentically man. On the cross, God put upon him the guilt for all sin (2 Corinthians 5:21), that we might become righteous. Believers are crucified with Christ, and thus are dead physically by faith (for we are already spiritually dead). But resurrected with Christ, His Life is ours, by His Spirit. He has us. Because the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, He is directly our father through Christ. We are in Christ, and Christ is of the Father.

It is not a mere legal adoption. We are made into the image of Christ -- 2 Corinthians 3:18; Romans 8:29 -- just as Christ is the image of the Father. As Christ talks about the second birth of Spirit (John 3), this is being born of Spirit.
So you believe
that God is the origin
of all spiritual life.

Did He create them or did He conceive them?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 06:11 PM
So you believe
that God is the origin
of all spiritual life.

Did He create them or did He conceive them?

Yes.

Who is "them"?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 06:15 PM
Yes.

Who is "them"?

Any spirit that has life.

Did God create them or conceive them?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 06:18 PM
Any spirit that has life.

Did God create them or conceive them?

Create.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 06:22 PM
Create.

You believe that God created the Spirit of Life?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 06:27 PM
Create.

There are only two types of spirits in all of God's creation.

Holy Spirits and unholy spirits.

Do you believe that God is the origin(created) of unholy spirits?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 06:36 PM
There are only two types of spirits in all of God's creation.

Holy Spirits and unholy spirits.

Do you believe that God is the origin(created) of unholy spirits?

Of course. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But you have to understand what good and evil are. Good in Hebrew (tov) is functional. Evil (ra'a) is dys/mal/nonfunction. Within function is the potential for dysfunction. This is most often achieved by adding to God's functional order, such as how the serpent added to the word of God in deceiving Eve.

God is thus not directly responsible for evil, but indirectly through the potential for dysfunction within function.

But that is the glory of the Gospel, that through Christ God fills all dysfunction with function, there no longer being potential for dys/mal/nonfunction.

This by no means implies that God intends dysfunction, but rather because it is subordinate to created functonal order, it was already conquered before creation. It was never a battle. Evil pretends there is conflict, but God's function always reigns. Because function reigns over dysfunction, God fills/repurposes all evil for function.

So even the work of those unholy spirits will be subverted by the Lord of Glory.

If God did not create all, then He is subordinate to creation. That cannot be.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 06:43 PM
Of course. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But you have to understand what good and evil are. Good in Hebrew (tov) is functional. Evil (ra'a) is dys/mal/nonfunction. Within function is the potential for dysfunction. This is most often achieved by adding to God's functional order, such as how the serpent added to the word of God in deceiving Eve.

God is thus not directly responsible for evil, but indirectly through the potential for dysfunction within function.

But that is the glory of the Gospel, that through Christ God fills all dysfunction with function, there no longer being potential for dys/mal/nonfunction.

This by no means implies that God intends dysfunction, but rather because it is subordinate to created functonal order, it was already conquered before creation. It was never a battle. Evil pretends there is conflict, but God's function always reigns. Because function reigns over dysfunction, God fills/repurposes all evil for function.

So even the work of those unholy spirits will be subverted by the Lord of Glory.

If God did not create all, then He is subordinate to creation. That cannot be.
How did God give life to the unholy spirits?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 06:47 PM
How did God give life to the unholy spirits?

As He did all things. At creation He spoke all things into existence. Evil originated after creation. He spoke once, and did not stutter.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:00 PM
As He did all things. At creation He spoke all things into existence. Evil originated after creation. He spoke once, and did not stutter.
God did not speak evil into existence.

The origin of evil is good.

Evil is the opposite reaction to good.

Therefore when good came into existence evil was thus born.

So that brings me back to the very same question
I have already asked you in regards to
that which you have stated you believe
and you have yet to answer...

Did God create the Spirit of Life.

Note*** God did not create life for God himself is life
unless of course He created Himself ...first.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:03 PM
God did not speak evil into existence.

The origin of evil is good.


Evil is the opposite reaction to good.

Well put!


So that brings me back to the very same question
I have already asked you in regards to
that which you have stated you believe
and you have yet to answer...

Did God create the Spirit of Life.

Note*** God did not create life for God himself is life
unless of course He created Himself ...first.

He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:10 PM
Well put!



He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.

Are the seven Spirits of God
found recorded in the Book of Revelation, Holy Spirits?

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes,which are the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the earth.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:12 PM
Well put!



He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.
So tell me, how can God be the origin of any unholy spirit?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:13 PM
Are the seven Spirits of God
found recorded in the Book of Revelation, Holy Spirits?

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes,which are the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the earth.

Especially in visionary passages, numbers are often used symbolically. Seven is the number of completeness, and so seven is not referring to a quantitative number of spirits, but the qualitative perfection of the Spirit of God.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:14 PM
To know whom the origin of unholy spirits would be
would we not need to look to that which made them unholy?

Or do you believe
they were Holy Spirits
that by whatever cause
became unholy?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:16 PM
Especially in visionary passages, numbers are often used symbolically. Seven is the number of completeness, and so seven is not referring to a quantitative number of spirits, but the qualitative perfection of the Spirit of God.

Did the Spirit of truth tell you this?

Or did you get this from another man?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:18 PM
Besides God does not need a number to symbolize His perfection.

Or rather there is no number that can
be used to symbolize Him in any way.

He created perfection. Therefore He is above it.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:23 PM
To know whom the origin of unholy spirits would be
would we not need to look to that which made them unholy?

Or do you believe
they were Holy Spirits
that by whatever cause
became unholy?

As we already discussed - originally good and fell to dysfunction. Revelation 12


Did the Spirit of truth tell you this?

Or did you get this from another man?

Yes? Both.


Besides God does not need a number to symbolize His perfection.

Or rather there is no number that can
be used to symbolize Him in any way.

He created perfection. Therefore He is above it.

I appreciate your line of thought. The Hebrews simply used numbers in their writing. It was John's attempt to express what he saw in his vision. He used the rhetorical devices he was familiar with, and using numbers for abstract concepts is certainly one of them. Just as 7 are the days of creation and the 7th day the day of perfect rest, 7 is God's number. Other completion number as 10, 12, and 40.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 07:25 PM
Of course there are spirits. But God is not one among many. He is THE Spirit which gave all breath of life to all other spirits (all of which have some outer form.)


Spirits don't need air, they don't have to breathe to live. Life is imparted to them through Christ their Creator.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:28 PM
Spirits don't need air, they don't have to breathe to live. Life is imparted to them through Christ their Creator.

...You didn't understand my post. Breath/Spirit/Wind are all the same word in both Hebrew and Greek. God's spirit is still the source of life. "Breathe life" is both literal and figurative.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:31 PM
As we already discussed - originally good and fell to dysfunction. Revelation 12



Yes? Both.



I appreciate your line of thought. The Hebrews simply used numbers in their writing. It was John's attempt to express what he saw in his vision. He used the rhetorical devices he was familiar with, and using numbers for abstract concepts is certainly one of them. Just as 7 are the days of creation and the 7th day the day of perfect rest, 7 is God's number. Other completion number as 10, 12, and 40.

God does not have a number. He does not represent himself by a number.

Never has and never will.

God created the way to measure an amount.

Now man on the other hand, represent God in many ways.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 07:32 PM
God does not have a number. He does not represent himself by a number.

Never has and never will.

Now man on the other hand, represent God in many ways.

That's what I'm saying. The human author of John represented God by a number. (This does not deny the inspiration of scripture.)

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:34 PM
Oh I take that back...

What is the number for infinity?

There I gave you the correct number to represent God.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:36 PM
That's what I'm saying. The human author of John represented God by a number. (This does not deny the inspiration of scripture.)
Spirits is plural is it not?

He did not write the seven Spirit of God.

He said seven Spirits.

Were there seven churches
or just one church represented by the number seven?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 07:46 PM
A spirit or any spirit for that matter has life.
Therefore it cannot be created.
Unless you believe that God created Himself
for God is life and the origin of all life.

To be a spirit with life
you have had to be born.

So that brings me back to this question...

Is God the Father of all spirits?

If not then who else is besides God?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 07:53 PM
So then you are inquiring?
We only call Him Father because we are adopted through Christ.


The word "adoption" is used in Romans 8:15 which says: "For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, 'Abba, Father.'"

However, the word adoption should have been translated as sonship. We are sons by begettal of the Spirit, not adoption. The first son of the Father was adopted, not begotten (Exodus 4:22).

Jesus said we must be born of the Spirit (John 3:3). The word "born" is the Greek gennao, which means to procreate.

In Acts 13:33 the same word (gennao) is translated begotten. The meaning of gennao must be determined by the context in which it is used.

Many people claim they are "born again" when in fact they are only spiritually begotten. Spiritual reproduction parallels physical reproduction, but without sex since the person already exists.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:00 PM
...and so seven is not referring to a quantitative number of spirits, but the qualitative perfection of the Spirit of God.


I disagree.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:04 PM
...You didn't understand my post. Breath/Spirit/Wind are all the same word in both Hebrew and Greek. God's spirit is still the source of life. "Breathe life" is both literal and figurative.


Ok, but flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. (Jesus)

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:07 PM
Spirits is plural is it not?

He did not write the seven Spirit of God.

He said seven Spirits.

Were there seven churches
or just one church represented by the number seven?


There are seven symbolic groups of believers. Five groups have problems which Jesus addressed and two did not have problems and had no correction.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:11 PM
Is God the Father of all spirits?


The Father is the father of all spirits created through Christ. It was Christ who made everything that was made (John 1:3).

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:14 PM
Ok, but flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. (Jesus)
When the word was made flesh was it flesh?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:14 PM
A spirit or any spirit for that matter has life.
Therefore it cannot be created.
To be a spirit with life
you have had to be born.


Did Adam and Eve have life?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:14 PM
The Father is the father of all spirits created through Christ. It was Christ who made everything that was made (John 1:3).
Who created Christ?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:15 PM
When the word was made flesh was it flesh?


The Word became a human being just like us (John 1:14).

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:16 PM
Did Adam and Eve have life?

Are they alive?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:16 PM
Who created Christ?


Christ was not created, he always existed.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:17 PM
The Word became a human being just like us (John 1:14).
Then is was no longer the word.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:17 PM
Christ was not created, he always existed.
Existed as what?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:18 PM
Are they alive?


They were not born, they were created. They did live but are now dead.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:18 PM
There are seven symbolic groups of believers. Five groups have problems which Jesus addressed and two did not have problems and had no correction.
Where did you come up with this?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:19 PM
Are they alive?


They were not born, they were created. They did live but are now dead for the time being.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:19 PM
They were not born, they were created. They did live but are now dead.

Are their spirits dead or still alive?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:20 PM
Where did you come up with this?


Revelation 2 & 3. Are you familiar with those chapters?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:21 PM
Revelation 2 & 3. Are you familiar with those chapters?

I am only familiar with the Spirit of truth.

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:22 PM
Are their spirits dead or still alive?


James defines death as the separation of body and spirit (James 2:26).

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:24 PM
James defines death as the separation of body and spirit (James 2:26).

How does the Spirit of truth define death?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:39 PM
There are spirits who have no body.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:40 PM
Is God the Father of all spirits?

meshak
April 17th, 2016, 08:41 PM
Hey Word,

what is your point?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:52 PM
Hey Word,

what is your point?


He claims to be a Christian, so I think he is playing.

:cow: No matter how good a teacher is, it's not possible to teach algebra to a cow.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 08:53 PM
Hey Word,

what is your point?

7

meshak
April 17th, 2016, 08:54 PM
He claims to be a Christian, so I think he is playing.

:cow: No matter how good a teacher is, it's not possible to teach algebra to a cow.

Nope, he is not a player.

don't think everyone is just like you, dear.

meshak
April 17th, 2016, 08:55 PM
7

what is 7?

jamie
April 17th, 2016, 08:58 PM
Nope, he is not a player.

don't think everyone is just like you, dear.


Ok, dear. Have a good night.

:yawn:

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:19 PM
what is 7?
The 7 Spirits of God.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:19 PM
Oh I take that back...

What is the number for infinity?

There I gave you the correct number to represent God.

Infinity is not a number. It is unquantifiability.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:21 PM
A spirit or any spirit for that matter has life.
Therefore it cannot be created.
Unless you believe that God created Himself
for God is life and the origin of all life.

To be a spirit with life
you have had to be born.

So that brings me back to this question...

Is God the Father of all spirits?

If not then who else is besides God?



These are some basic mistakes that can be cleared up by understand the Hebrew and Greek terms for these words.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:22 PM
The word "adoption" is used in Romans 8:15 which says: "For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, 'Abba, Father.'"

However, the word adoption should have been translated as sonship. We are sons by begettal of the Spirit, not adoption. The first son of the Father was adopted, not begotten (Exodus 4:22).

Jesus said we must be born of the Spirit (John 3:3). The word "born" is the Greek gennao, which means to procreate.

In Acts 13:33 the same word (gennao) is translated begotten. The meaning of gennao must be determined by the context in which it is used.

Many people claim they are "born again" when in fact they are only spiritually begotten. Spiritual reproduction parallels physical reproduction, but without sex since the person already exists.

How about...no armstrongism.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:23 PM
There are seven symbolic groups of believers. Five groups have problems which Jesus addressed and two did not have problems and had no correction.

????? Out of where did this arise?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:25 PM
Infinity is not a number. It is unquantifiability.

Not to God it is not.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:26 PM
These are some basic mistakes that can be cleared up by understand the Hebrew and Greek terms for these words.

You do not have to understand any language of man to know the truth.

I know the language of the Spirit.

To which passes all understanding.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:27 PM
Not to God it is not.

...That's the definition of the word. You can't redefine it.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:29 PM
...That's the definition of the word. You can't redefine it.

Can't is not in the language of the Spirit.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:30 PM
You do not have to understand any language of man to know the truth.

I know the language of the Spirit.

To which passes all understanding.

Except that Christ says, "Thy Logos is truth." Logos is speech, discourse, thought, and expression. If Logos is truth, words are pretty important.

But if you are going to refuse the wisdom of 2000 years of church doctrine, then go ahead.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:35 PM
Except that Christ says, "Thy Logos is truth." Logos is speech, discourse, thought, and expression. If Logos is truth, words are pretty important.

But if you are going to refuse the wisdom of 2000 years of church doctrine, then go ahead.

All wisdom comes from the Spirit of Wisdom.

I have the Spirit of Wisdom without measure.

And I am older than 2000 years.

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:43 PM
All wisdom comes from the Spirit of Wisdom.

I have the Spirit of Wisdom without measure.

And I am older than 2000 years.

....Okay. I'm done.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:50 PM
....Okay. I'm done.

What have you done?

Aletheiophile
April 17th, 2016, 09:52 PM
What have you done?

Idiom for: done with this discussion. Peace out.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:54 PM
There are many spirits that have entered into your world
that existed long before they entered into your world by a woman's womb.

If you cannot believe this simple truth then how can you believe
Jesus existed before He came to your world?

Do you really believe that Jesus is the only one to ever do this?

Word
April 17th, 2016, 09:57 PM
Here I will tell you of another.

John the baptist.

keypurr
April 17th, 2016, 10:18 PM
The term "god" and the term "lord" are titles. Paul said, "...yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

However, the Father has given the Son the capability of imparting eternal life, which makes Jesus also God.

There is one God in the same way our nation is one nation, but not one person. You don't comprehend the kingdom of God.

E pluribus unum.

Do you understand that Christ still has a God over him?

keypurr
April 17th, 2016, 10:28 PM
A spirit or any spirit for that matter has life.
Therefore it cannot be created.

I disagree.
Christ is a spirit and he was created.
Heb 1:3


Unless you believe that God created Himself
for God is life and the origin of all life.

To be a spirit with life
you have had to be born.

So that brings me back to this question...

Is God the Father of all spirits?

If not then who else is besides God?



Jesus was born but Christ was not.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 10:33 PM
I disagree.
Christ is a spirit and he was created.
Heb 1:3



Jesus was born but Christ was not.
I have already proved on this thread
that life cannot be created.

It can only be reproduced from it's origin.

Which is God.

Therefore no Spirit or spirit is created.

It is reproduced from it's origin which is God.

God is Spirit.

God did not create Himself.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 10:35 PM
Now the body of a creature can be created but
the life of that body is the spirit.

Without the spirit there is no life.

The spirit leaves the body the body dies.

Word
April 17th, 2016, 10:38 PM
Do you understand that Christ still has a God over him?

If God is within you
then would you not have
the power and authority of God
within you?

keypurr
April 17th, 2016, 10:52 PM
I have already proved on this thread
that life cannot be created.

It can only be reproduced from it's origin.

Which is God.

Therefore no Spirit or spirit is created.

It is reproduced from it's origin which is God.

God is Spirit.

God did not create Himself.

You only proved it to yourself friend.

The Father created his son and was pleased that it had his fullness.

alwight
April 18th, 2016, 01:19 AM
All wisdom comes from the Spirit of Wisdom.

I have the Spirit of Wisdom without measure.

And I am older than 2000 years.
You reminded me of the poster The Word aka Brad, is that you?
If so, iirc you thought that your flesh would soon be killed as Jesus' was.
Perhaps things haven't gone entirely to plan? :think:
If not, my bad.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?69268-The-Word-has-entered-this-forum&p=2440699&viewfull=1#post2440699

Some people believe the Word is the Bible and I'm here to show you he's alive and well. He didn't need the scriptures when he was using his flesh to preach the gospel and he doesn't need it while he's using my flesh, either.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 04:57 AM
Talk more. I think I agree with you, so far I concur with all that you've put forth. Can you elaborate more?

First you have to decide if what I wrote is an accurate assessment. I believe it is.

I will probably say too much in going further but, perhaps this will help in generating some fresh thoughts:

Note: #1 Both Adam and Jesus came from hand of God. Both were innocent purposed to be made Holy. Jesus was not God but had the Spirit of God: *“Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, But [the Word that Moses saw per Ex 33:20-23 KJV] stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being, withheld nothing from Him of His Father’s power indwelling Him until the cross when it was withdrawn for Him to be able to descend into the grave for setting the captives free.

#2 Death could not hold Jesus because He was without sin. At this point in time was His Father’s Spirit free to re-enter the life of the human Jesus to raise Him up to His new Glorified state. *Php 2:6-7 (AMP)
Now, because the new birth from above made possible by His resurrection, add all that to this:

“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 (KJV)

By that fact, I believe we can conclude if we are born again the only difference between Jesus and us is we were born in sin that innocence evaporated soon after infancy due to several factors we might discuss later whereas His didn’'t but went on by the nurturing of the Holy Ghost unto perfection in the Father. The humanly vulnerable Jesus was given to protect His ‘Birth’ right Him against the wiles of Satan. The new born of Him is given the very same responsibility. cf John 17:1ff

Both Adam and Jesus came from the hand of God. Both were innocent purposed to be made Holy. Both were “made” Spiritual ‘babies’ to be brought along into ‘sonship’ and further along unto ‘fatherhood’ in the Godhead. Only by the living out of both lives, both human and divine, would God the Father’s heart’s desire of having “many sons brought unto glory” be realized.

Thus I hope we can see His sinless conception to be the only way for entrance into Adam’s race for man's redemption. A sinless being had come into Adam's race without divinity but subjected to it and from the outside was it the only way. Everything else Jesus did could have been done by, and many times was done by, anyone God chose. [that might have been part of the reason for Moses and Elijah’s conversation with Jesus on the Mount that day]. Paul worked all this out by his life for our understanding. He was an extension of Jesus and performed in the ways of God Jesus could never have done in a world that would not have received Him except for what they could get out it. cf John 6:1ff. Such is the action of a corrupted human nature Paul was given to ‘*witness’ to of God..
*martyrdom

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 05:17 AM
All wisdom comes from the Spirit of Wisdom.

I have the Spirit of Wisdom without measure.

And I am older than 2000 years.

You just blew it.

now I understand that you are playing game.

so much for your mysterious questions.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 05:29 AM
You just blew it.

now I understand that you are playing game.

so much for your mysterious questions.

What took you so long?

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 05:32 AM
What took you so long?

I gave him the benefit of the doubt as I always do to everyone.

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 06:51 AM
First you have to decide if what I wrote is an accurate assessment. I believe it is.

I will probably say too much in going further but, perhaps this will help in generating some fresh thoughts:

Note: #1 Both Adam and Jesus came from hand of God. Both were innocent purposed to be made Holy. Jesus was not God but had the Spirit of God: *“Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, But [the Word that Moses saw per Ex 33:20-23 KJV] stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being, withheld nothing from Him of His Father’s power indwelling Him until the cross when it was withdrawn for Him to be able to descend into the grave for setting the captives free.

#2 Death could not hold Jesus because He was without sin. At this point in time was His Father’s Spirit free to re-enter the life of the human Jesus to raise Him up to His new Glorified state. *Php 2:6-7 (AMP)
Now, because the new birth from above made possible by His resurrection, add all that to this:

“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 (KJV)

By that fact, I believe we can conclude if we are born again the only difference between Jesus and us is we were born in sin that innocence evaporated soon after infancy due to several factors we might discuss later whereas His didn’'t but went on by the nurturing of the Holy Ghost unto perfection in the Father. The humanly vulnerable Jesus was given to protect His ‘Birth’ right Him against the wiles of Satan. The new born of Him is given the very same responsibility. cf John 17:1ff

Both Adam and Jesus came from the hand of God. Both were innocent purposed to be made Holy. Both were “made” Spiritual ‘babies’ to be brought along into ‘sonship’ and further along unto ‘fatherhood’ in the Godhead. Only by the living out of both lives, both human and divine, would God the Father’s heart’s desire of having “many sons brought unto glory” be realized.

Thus I hope we can see His sinless conception to be the only way for entrance into Adam’s race for man's redemption. A sinless being had come into Adam's race without divinity but subjected to it and from the outside was it the only way. Everything else Jesus did could have been done by, and many times was done by, anyone God chose. [that might have been part of the reason for Moses and Elijah’s conversation with Jesus on the Mount that day]. Paul worked all this out by his life for our understanding. He was an extension of Jesus and performed in the ways of God Jesus could never have done in a world that would not have received Him except for what they could get out it. cf John 6:1ff. Such is the action of a corrupted human nature Paul was given to ‘*witness’ to of God..
*martyrdom

Eek. I'm glad I asked for more. Now I understand what you were trying to say. That's Hegelian Kenoticism, which states that Christ emptied Himself of divinity but was filled with the Holy Spirit. That's not what kenao means in that passage. I've left churches that preach that. Not a fan. Definitely not a fan.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 07:19 AM
Eek. I'm glad I asked for more. Now I understand what you were trying to say. That's Hegelian Kenoticism, which states that Christ emptied Himself of divinity but was filled with the Holy Spirit. That's not what kenao means in that passage. I've left churches that preach that. Not a fan. Definitely not a fan.

Thanks! I didn't know I was a Heg-what? Keno, who?

Sorry for your unfortunate experience by rejecting a perspective only to embrace another that still leaves you with an opinion that is incomplete. I have enjoyed mine because it has allowed me to connect some dots having to do with the mystery Paul speaks of. BTW, are you a Pentecostal?

The Word did empty Himself to become a human, the son of God in the legal sense and the son of man in the eternal sense. That is why Christ is a title given to Him. Notice that the Word isn't isn't coming again in clouds of glory nor is the son of God. Why not ask yourself why the son of man is? Why did God give the son of man a name higher than any name in heaven, even higher than His own. Why wasn't it written of Jesus that while upon Earth He was never addressed as being:

". . . . Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6 (AMP) but now is, Hmmm?

Now, what part of it ALL do you think I have incorrectly thought through when speaking of Jesus Christ without the need for Greek or Hebrew language skills?

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 07:40 AM
Thanks! I didn't know I was a Heg-what? Keno, who?

Sorry for your unfortunate experience by rejecting a perspective only to embrace another that still leaves you with an opinion that is incomplete. I have enjoyed mine because it has allowed me to connect some dots having to do with the mystery Paul speaks of. BTW, are you a Pentecostal?

NO. Definitely not pentecostal. Reformed.


The Word did empty Himself to become a human, the son of God in the legal sense and the son of man in the eternal sense. That is why Christ is a title given to Him. Notice that the Word isn't isn't coming again in clouds of glory nor is the son of God. Why not ask yourself why the son of man is? Why did God give the son of man a name higher than any name in heaven, even higher than His own. Why wasn't it written of Jesus that while upon Earth He was never addressed as being:

". . . . Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6 (AMP) but now is, Hmmm?

Now, what part of it ALL do you think I have incorrectly thought through when speaking of Jesus Christ without the need for Greek or Hebrew language skills?

...That's the problem. Without evaluating the Greek text, people get to weird doctrinal conclusions like this. That is the point of church leadership -- to teach the oracles of truth, and to do all of that hard legwork for the laypeople. But church leadership over the past few centuries have gone astray into shades of heresy. It's horrendous.

So no, I cannot answer your question without referencing Hebrew and Greek for the simple reason that I know what I know by the biblical languages. My time in scripture is at least 51% spent studying the words etymologically before evaluating it in context. That is how I know scripture. How could I reference it by any other means?

For a non-scriptural example, I like foreign film/music. And I remember quotes and verses in the foreign language. It leaves a different impression on my mind, the one intended by the writer/artist in that language. I can translate my understanding from that language, but I cannot give you an English-only perspective. I am incapable, because the original foreign language understanding is already engraved into my perception.

If I am not "allowed" to access the Greek, there is no need to further this discussion.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 07:48 AM
[QUOTE]NO. Definitely not pentecostal. Reformed.


Why NO? Definitely not pentecostal? All of my teachers are penetecostal reform people.. Who messed with your mind to persuaded you away from the "coming upon of the Holy Spirit"?




...That's the problem.

Only to your thinking have I a problem. I don't see it that way.

OMT: I asked you where I was wrong in my understanding? What part, you don't mention. You just accuse without offering up anything.

So how 'bout evaluating what I wrote any way you see fit using whatever commentary you choose?

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 07:58 AM
[QUOTE=Aletheiophile;4679391]


Why NO? Definitely not pentecostal? All of my teachers are penetecostal reform people.. Who messed with your mind to persuaded you away from the "coming upon of the Holy Spirit"?

LOL. I was raised pentecostal, and am worse off for a fallacious, heretical understanding of the trinity. No thank you.


Only to your thinking have I a problem. I don't see it that way.

OMT: I asked you where I was wrong in my understanding? What part, you don't mention. You just accuse without offering up anything.

So how 'bout evaluating what I wrote any way you see fit using whatever commentary you choose?

The entire foundation is wrong. Everything is subtly wrong because of how you have misunderstood the text, especially the word "kenao."

I am not using a commentary. I'm using Greek.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 08:09 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;4679400]

LOL. I was raised pentecostal, and am worse off for a fallacious, heretical understanding of the trinity. No thank you.



The entire foundation is wrong. Everything is subtly wrong because of how you have misunderstood the text, especially the word "kenao."

I am not using a commentary. I'm using Greek.

How do you KNOW my foundation is wrong? Who told you?

Why not try this out: Quit worshipping the Greek language. It desn't hold a candle to being taight by the Holy Spirit who gives insight. You forfeit insight by the way you go about getting understanding, i.e., standing with man's reasoning. If the Greek language floats your boat it does so only to the degree you permit. If it doesn't you simply do a refit by choosing another Greek scholar where enjoyment in his agreement might be found. Dollars to donuts everyone of your Greek opinions are of the Coptic Greek.

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 08:16 AM
[QUOTE=Aletheiophile;4679408]

How do you KNOW my foundation is wrong? Who told you?

Why not try this out: Quit worshipping the Greek language. It desn't hold a candle to being taight by the Holy Spirit who gives insight. You forfeit insight by the way you go about getting understanding, i.e., standing with man's reasoning. If the Greek language floats your boat it does so only to the degree you permit. If it doesn't you simply do a refit by choosing another Greek scholar where enjoyment in his agreement might be found. Dollars to donuts everyone of your Greek opinions are of the Coptic Greek.

My Greek only makes sense because of the knowledge of the Spirit. Appealing to "The Holy Spirit" is more subjective than appealing to the Greek. Look at the diversity of nonsense in the past two centuries. All under "The Holy Spirit."

Over the past 2 millennia, those that have studied the text in Greek come to largely akin conclusions. Even Erasmus and Luther were closer to eachother than most people are today.

Where do you think you got your English Bible? It's like saying that because you have steak, you don't need cows or butchers. Well, I appreciate the cow and the butcher, and actually talk to my butcher about my cow. (Not just figuratively, but literally, I do so with my meat.)

The kind of doctrine you are putting forth here is what is leading millions into heresy. Many people I love are lost in it. And I am deeply grieved.

Epoisses
April 18th, 2016, 08:36 AM
The entire foundation is wrong. Everything is subtly wrong because of how you have misunderstood the text, especially the word "kenao."

I am not using a commentary. I'm using Greek.

They have to re-write the bible to get their hyper-grace trash to fly. The layman who reads the bible and prays for the Holy Spirit to guide him is not good enough anymore. I need the re-incarnation of Greek philosophy to guide me now.

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 08:42 AM
Notice that the Word isn't isn't coming again in clouds of glory nor is the son of God.



He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God (Revelation 19:13).

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 08:44 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;4679419]

[QUOTE]My Greek only makes sense because of the knowledge of the Spirit. Appealing to "The Holy Spirit" is more subjective than appealing to the Greek. Look at the diversity of nonsense in the past two centuries. All under "The Holy Spirit."

"All under the Holy Spirit"? You are off base, son. You are calling Jesus Christ a Iiar and a cheat. Surely you have better discernment than that even without pentecost in your life?


Over the past 2 millennia, those that have studied the text in Greek come to largely akin conclusions. Even Erasmus and Luther were closer to eachother than most people are today.

But you don't know that! What do you know at all after struggling for understanding from the various Greek scholars which have fed you their opinions?


Where do you think you got your English Bible?

And what Bible has persuaded more people to Jesus Christ than any other, hmmm? How come that is so except God has performed it? Do you think He performs His teaching using any other in like fashion?



It's like saying that because you have steak, you don't need cows or butchers. Well, I appreciate the cow and the butcher, and actually talk to my butcher about my cow. (Not just figuratively, but literally, I do so with my meat.)

Great! Are you any closer to the "Meat" because of your preferences?? I know that you aren't.


The kind of doctrine you are putting forth here is what is leading millions into heresy. Many people I love are lost in it. And I am deeply grieved.

And I am positive you are about reclaiming as many as you can, right? <bilge>

Your 'knowledge' has had its way with you for sure. "Now as touching things offered unto idols, In this case Greek scholarship, Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 Corinthians 8:1 (KJV). Got any charity at the end of your work day?

I believe that glove fits your hand quite nicely.

And you still have not refuted what I have written but only say it is based on a wrong foundation. Tragic you can't address any of it from your foundation, you being so much more important than me.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 08:50 AM
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God (Revelation 19:13).

Mark 13:26.

Spare me further your nonsense.

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Mark 13:26.

Spare me further your nonsense.


I agree with Truth friend, "The kind of doctrine you are putting forth here is what is leading millions into heresy."

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 09:38 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;4679419]

My Greek only makes sense because of the knowledge of the Spirit. Appealing to "The Holy Spirit" is more subjective than appealing to the Greek. Look at the diversity of nonsense in the past two centuries. All under "The Holy Spirit."

Over the past 2 millennia, those that have studied the text in Greek come to largely akin conclusions. Even Erasmus and Luther were closer to eachother than most people are today.

Where do you think you got your English Bible? It's like saying that because you have steak, you don't need cows or butchers. Well, I appreciate the cow and the butcher, and actually talk to my butcher about my cow. (Not just figuratively, but literally, I do so with my meat.)

The kind of doctrine you are putting forth here is what is leading millions into heresy. Many people I love are lost in it. And I am deeply grieved.

You are deeply misguided and show little understandng of what the Bible teaches.


I am not using a commentary. I'm using Greek.

Which Greek commentary?

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 09:40 AM
I agree with Truth friend, "The kind of doctrine you are putting forth here is what is leading millions into heresy."

Stop cherry picking a verse that suits you and be truthful as you claim to be. Agree with Mark 8:38;13:26; Matt 1:27; Rev 1:7 because they are the words of Jesus.

dolan_m
April 18th, 2016, 09:45 AM
This question although simplistic at first glance actually opens a whole can of issues. First of all - do we even have a universally agreeable definition of flesh? Secondly, does something necessarily have to be exist, if it was made? I think if you answer these questions first we can get down to the root of your problem!

Clete
April 18th, 2016, 09:54 AM
Word,

What exactly is the point of this thread?

God became flesh.

What's the big mystery?

dolan_m
April 18th, 2016, 09:58 AM
Word,

What exactly is the point of this thread?

God became flesh.

What's the big mystery?


If God made flesh, then who made God?

Tambora
April 18th, 2016, 11:25 AM
If God made flesh, then who made God?Give your answer.

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 11:29 AM
"All under the Holy Spirit"? You are off base, son. You are calling Jesus Christ a Iiar and a cheat. Surely you have better discernment than that even without pentecost in your life?

I have known many people who claim inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but everything they speak is Heretical nonsense. Heretics like Ellen White claim inspiration by God. And many other "prophets." Yet the sectarianization of the church over the past two centuries only demonstrates lawlessness, not the righteousness of God.

(And I'll have you know I'm a woman, not a man.)


But you don't know that! What do you know at all after struggling for understanding from the various Greek scholars which have fed you their opinions?
How do you know where my opinions come from? I've studied the works of and about theologians from the patristics to the reformers. Even the early patristics agreed on more than the various groups of the church do now.


And what Bible has persuaded more people to Jesus Christ than any other, hmmm? How come that is so except God has performed it? Do you think He performs His teaching using any other in like fashion?
If you are implicating the KJV, you have a very narrow scope of the church. Are you forgetting the world church? Are you assuming that all "persuaded" are truly saved?


Great! Are you any closer to the "Meat" because of your preferences?? I know that you aren't.
Actually, I know where my meat comes from, and I not only eat the steak, but the whole cow.


And I am positive you are about reclaiming as many as you can, right? <bilge>
Yes, when I have a sister who believes that she can prophecy/speak tongues/heal because she's filled with the holy spirit and do it as a work for her own self-worth? And I know many others of the same spirit? Then yeah, I would love to reclaim them for the kingdom.


Your 'knowledge' has had its way with you for sure. "Now as touching things offered unto idols, In this case Greek scholarship, Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 Corinthians 8:1 (KJV). Got any charity at the end of your work day?

I believe that glove fits your hand quite nicely.
...That's not even what that passage means, and it is the only reference to knowledge being puffed up. Otherwise:

Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;


And you still have not refuted what I have written but only say it is based on a wrong foundation. Tragic you can't address any of it from your foundation, you being so much more important than me.

You want a refutation? FINE. Christ only put off the form of divinity, not the very essence of being. Paul writes, "while still being God." He never ceased to be divine. Never. Had he maintained the form of divinity, He would have been omnipresent/omniscient/omnipotent as a man. We would not have been able to behold Him. So He emptied Himself of the form, not the being.

That is the foundational misunderstanding. If Christ has cast off His divinity and is only a man with the Spirit of God, then it denies the very power of the cross.


Which Greek commentary?
Several lexicons, as well as my own language study.

If you are so anti-intellectual, there is no need for further discussion.

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 11:47 AM
Stop cherry picking a verse that suits you and be truthful as you claim to be. Agree with Mark 8:38;13:26; Matt 1:27; Rev 1:7 because they are the words of Jesus.


I said that I agree with the person "truth friend" with whom you have been conversing.

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 11:54 AM
You want a refutation? FINE. Christ only put off the form of divinity, not the very essence of being. Paul writes, "while still being God." He never ceased to be divine. Never. Had he maintained the form of divinity, He would have been omnipresent/omniscient/omnipotent as a man. We would not have been able to behold Him. So He emptied Himself of the form, not the being.

That is the foundational misunderstanding. If Christ has cast off His divinity and is only a man with the Spirit of God, then it denies the very power of the cross.


Do you believe Jesus was mortal like his brethren (Hebrews 2:17-18).

Word
April 18th, 2016, 12:05 PM
You reminded me of the poster The Word aka Brad, is that you?
If so, iirc you thought that your flesh would soon be killed as Jesus' was.
Perhaps things haven't gone entirely to plan? :think:
If not, my bad.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?69268-The-Word-has-entered-this-forum&p=2440699&viewfull=1#post2440699

No, I am not that person.

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 12:43 PM
I have known many people who claim inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but everything they speak is Heretical nonsense.

I am glad you said it was just many and not everyone but, so what? I have known many self anointed like you. Does that make me right?? Can you save me? I believe you are too consumed by the law of your flesh to allow God to consume you with Himself.


Heretics like Ellen White claim inspiration by God. And many other "prophets." Yet the sectarianization of the church over the past two centuries only demonstrates lawlessness, not the righteousness of God.

Ellen White was the founder of 7th day Adventistism. I am not of her persuasion. Ever read Oswald Chambers?


(And I'll have you know I'm a woman, not a man.)

I forgive you!!


How do you know where my opinions come from? I've studied the works of and about theologians from the patristics to the reformers. Even the early patristics agreed on more than the various groups of the church do now.

Thanks for pointing up the reason for your "headiness".


If you are implicating the KJV, you have a very narrow scope of the church.

The Agape way is a narrow Way and few there be that find it. Now where would you like to go with that revelation truth?


Are you forgetting the world church? Are you assuming that all "persuaded" are truly saved?

No, not at all, however, who made you judge and jury??


Actually, I know where my meat comes from, and I not only eat the steak, but the whole cow.

Wonderful!! Jesus said, "My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink. He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I in him." John 6:55-56 (AMP) Anyone IN Him knows what it means. Are yu there yet?

[QUOTE]Yes, when I have a sister who believes that she can prophecy/speak tongues/heal because she's filled with the holy spirit and do it as a work for her own self-worth? And I know many others of the same spirit? Then yeah, I would love to reclaim them for the kingdom.

And I am quite sure that is fully the way it is between you and her.. :rolleyes:


...That's not even what that passage means, and it is the only reference to knowledge being puffed up. Otherwise:

You mean knowledge doesn't puff up?? <scratching head> Then what in the world could be your reason for your condescension?


Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Yes. Knowledge of what? Taught by whom? Jesus said it needs be the Holy Spirit, you say someone else. How come? Question: How does one work out his/her salvation by using Greek lexicons? OK, several lexicons?


Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Thank you.


You want a refutation? FINE. Christ only put off the form of divinity, not the very essence of being. Paul writes, "while still being God." He never ceased to be divine. Never. Had he maintained the form of divinity, He would have been omnipresent/omniscient/omnipotent as a man. We would not have been able to behold Him. So He emptied Himself of the form, not the being.

Though being God = Because of the trust God had in Him that He would NOT fail in His mission, God witheld nothing from Jesus. Jesus was full of Grace and Truth. Do you know any other man for which that can be said of him? But yet:[I]". . . though being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], [The Word] did not think this equality with God was a thing to be easily grasped or retained, But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee (will) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:6-11


That is the foundational misunderstanding. If Christ has cast off His divinity and is only a man with the Spirit of God, then it denies the very power of the cross.

Really? When only a sinless man from conception, totally obedient and righteous before God in every aspect of his life was needed for the sacrifice that would have canceled out Adam's transgression, you say that wasn't good enough and he had to be more? Why? Please answer that question.


Several lexicons, as well as my own language study.

Why several? Isn't one good enough?


If you are so anti-intellectual, there is no need for further discussion.

If I was I would not be going back and forth with you. Intellectualism never saved anyone. . . . only puffed them up.

alwight
April 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM
No, I am not that person.My bad then. ;)

Word
April 18th, 2016, 03:57 PM
He is not a spirit. He is Spirit.

Not according to John 4
24 : God is a Spirit:

God is seven Spirits and they are one.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:00 PM
You just blew it.

now I understand that you are playing game.

so much for your mysterious questions.

Why do you say this about me?
Have I done you any harm?

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 04:03 PM
Why do you say this about me?
Have I done you any harm?

good day, sir.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:07 PM
You read in your bible and you believe that
people use to live upwards to 900 years and
God flooded the whole earth by water.

Sons of God came down from heaven and bred with women
The Red Sea parted for Moses and a multitude of people
to walk upon dry land.

And not to mention all the great signs and wonders
that God performed at the word of Moses.

People brought back from the dead.

Samuel brought up from hell at the request of King Saul.

I could go on and on and on.

But yet I tell you that I am over 2000 years old
and you cast me off as a jester.


No wonder Jesus said...

If I have told you earthly things,
and ye believe not, how shall ye believe,
if I tell you of heavenly things?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:08 PM
good day, sir.
Why do you make statements you are not willing to honor?

If you do not honor your own words
then you bring dishonor upon yourself.

It is better to say nothing
than to say something
worth nothing.

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 04:10 PM
Why do you make statements you are not willing to honor?

If you do not honor your own words
then you bring dishonor upon yourself.

It is better to say nothing
than to say something
worth nothing.

good day, you are on ignore.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:14 PM
good day, you are on ignore.

And exactly how is that going to affect me?

I have already benefited from your statements of dishonor towards me.

That cannot be taken back.

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 04:19 PM
[ Intellectualism never saved anyone. . . . only puffed them up.

Amen, aleth seems to be so proud of her intelleligence.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:19 PM
Word,

What exactly is the point of this thread?

God became flesh.

What's the big mystery?

God is a Spirit. Are you saying that Spirit became flesh?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:24 PM
Are all the angels, sons of God?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 04:28 PM
Can a Spirit become flesh?

Cross Reference
April 18th, 2016, 05:33 PM
Amen, aleth seems to be so proud of her intelleligence.

To what end? Has the message been changed by what she has taken into herself by all her critical studies? I hope not.

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 05:38 PM
To what end? Has the message been changed by what she has taken into herself by all her critical studies? I hope not.

I followed her posts and she is into details about the topic using theologians' knowledge.

Her knowledge seems to come from them.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 05:51 PM
God is the origin of all life.

In fact, God is life.

God has always existed.

Therefore life has always existed

because God is the origin of life.

God did not create Himself.

Therefore God did not create life.

It always existed.

Because God always existed.


God is a Spirit.
John 4-24 :God is a Spirit:

The Spirit of Life.

God did not create Himself.

Therefore God hence the Spirit of Life has always existed.

Therefore God is the origin of all life.


Note*** There are no dead spirits.

God did not make Himself come alive.

Is God the Father of all spirits?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 06:17 PM
I have read and heard many interpretations and variations
of diverse kinds of doctrines to which all derived from
the phrase " the word made flesh ".

Class begin.

John - Chapter 1

Verse 1

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

1. The beginning of what?

Note*** God has no beginning or end.

Therefore it cannot be the beginning of life.

for God is life and has no beginning.

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 06:32 PM
[QUOTE=Aletheiophile;4679560]

I am glad you said it was just many and not everyone but, so what? I have known many self anointed like you. Does that make me right?? Can you save me? I believe you are too consumed by the law of your flesh to allow God to consume you with Himself.



Ellen White was the founder of 7th day Adventistism. I am not of her persuasion. Ever read Oswald Chambers?



I forgive you!!



Thanks for pointing up the reason for your "headiness".


The Agape way is a narrow Way and few there be that find it. Now where would you like to go with that revelation truth?



No, not at all, however, who made you judge and jury??



Wonderful!! Jesus said, "My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink. He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I in him." John 6:55-56 (AMP) Anyone IN Him knows what it means. Are yu there yet?



And I am quite sure that is fully the way it is between you and her.. :rolleyes:



You mean knowledge doesn't puff up?? <scratching head> Then what in the world could be your reason for your condescension?



Yes. Knowledge of what? Taught by whom? Jesus said it needs be the Holy Spirit, you say someone else. How come? Question: How does one work out his/her salvation by using Greek lexicons? OK, several lexicons?



Thank you.



Though being God = Because of the trust God had in Him that He would NOT fail in His mission, God witheld nothing from Jesus. Jesus was full of Grace and Truth. Do you know any other man for which that can be said of him? But yet:[I]". . . though being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], [The Word] did not think this equality with God was a thing to be easily grasped or retained, But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee (will) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:6-11



Really? When only a sinless man from conception, totally obedient and righteous before God in every aspect of his life was needed for the sacrifice that would have canceled out Adam's transgression, you say that wasn't good enough and he had to be more? Why? Please answer that question.



Why several? Isn't one good enough?



If I was I would not be going back and forth with you. Intellectualism never saved anyone. . . . only puffed them up.

Cross, I have to apologize. I haven't been on forums in years, and I get too easily defensive and caught up. what I say may have been true (even if you disagree) but it was not said in Love. I did not bring forth the quality/character/activity of Love, and for that I am truly sorry. I am confessing my fault to you. I have felt awful all day since I reacted such. Please forgive me.

We clearly have a lot of disagreements here, coming from very different perspectives. I want to from henceforth more graciously, thoughtfully, and intentionally respond.

My problems with kenoticism are thus:

1. It emphasizes Christ's humanity inordinately, and so

2. Too much distinguishes Father and Son into separate beings, not just separate persons. I have heard many who teach/are taught this doctrine to refer to the trinity as three GUYS, or DUDES, which the fathers at Nicea never intended.

3. It is not about what Christ's actions. It is about who He was, and what He did only because of who He was. If he was not authentically divine, then it is invalid.

And that 1 Cor passage is only talking about passing experiential knowledge (gnosis) according to meat sacrificed to idols, not clear and exact experiential knowledge by divine revelation of faith (epignosis).

Aletheiophile
April 18th, 2016, 06:33 PM
Do you believe Jesus was mortal like his brethren (Hebrews 2:17-18).

The wages of sin is death. Christ had no sin. Had He not given His life he would never had died.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 06:37 PM
Would you all please take your petty arguments
and disagreements somewhere else.

And not pollute my thread of knowledge and wisdom with
any more of your stupidities.

Thank you

Word
April 18th, 2016, 06:39 PM
God is the origin of all life.

In fact, God is life.

God has always existed.

Therefore life has always existed

because God is the origin of life.

God did not create Himself.

Therefore God did not create life.

It always existed.

Because God always existed.


God is a Spirit.
John 4-24 :God is a Spirit:

The Spirit of Life.

God did not create Himself.

Therefore God hence the Spirit of Life has always existed.

Therefore God is the origin of all life.


Note*** There are no dead spirits.

God did not make Himself come alive.

Is God the Father of all spirits?

I have read and heard many interpretations and variations
of diverse kinds of doctrines to which all derived from
the phrase " the word made flesh ".

John - Chapter 1

Verse 1

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

1. The beginning of what?

Note*** God has no beginning or end.

Therefore it cannot be the beginning of life.

for God is life and has no beginning
nor no end.

KingdomRose
April 18th, 2016, 06:55 PM
Adam was made flesh,
Adam was not born of flesh.

When was Jesus made flesh?

When he was conceived in the womb of Mary.

KingdomRose
April 18th, 2016, 06:56 PM
Was He born of flesh?

Yes he was. He had to be a perfect human being, just like Adam was (before he rebelled).

Word
April 18th, 2016, 06:58 PM
When he was conceived in the womb of Mary.

Are you certain that this is the first time that Jesus
walked on earth in the flesh?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:00 PM
Yes he was. He had to be a perfect human being, just like Adam was (before he rebelled).

If Jesus was perfect then why is it written in your bible

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye,
and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils,
and I do cures to day and to morrow,
and the third day I shall be perfected.

KingdomRose
April 18th, 2016, 07:04 PM
Did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

Yes he did, as he himself testifies. (John 17:5; John 8:42)

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:08 PM
Yes he did, as he himself testifies. (John 17:5; John 8:42)
In what image did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

KingdomRose
April 18th, 2016, 07:13 PM
Who was Jesus that it was necessary for Him to become flesh?

Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel? Jesus was a perfect individual in heaven. Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

KingdomRose
April 18th, 2016, 07:16 PM
The term "god" and the term "lord" are titles. Paul said, "...yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

However, the Father has given the Son the capability of imparting eternal life, which makes Jesus also God.

There is one God in the same way our nation is one nation, but not one person. You don't comprehend the kingdom of God.

E pluribus unum.

God giving Jesus authority doesn't make Jesus equal to Almighty God, because he was GIVEN that authority. I agree with you that Jesus is a mighty, important being, and that is what "god" means, after all. So he can be called A god, but not equal to the Almighty who gave him power and authority.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:23 PM
God is the origin of all life.
In fact, God is life.
God has always existed.

Therefore life has always existed
because God is the origin of life.

God did not create Himself.
Therefore God did not create life.
It always existed.

Because God always existed.

God is a Spirit.
John 4-24 :God is a Spirit:

The Spirit of Life.
God did not create Himself.
Therefore God hence the Spirit of Life has always existed.
Therefore God is the origin of all life.

Note*** There are no dead spirits.
God did not make Himself come alive.

Is God the Father of all spirits?

I have read and heard many interpretations and variations
of diverse kinds of doctrines to which all derived from
the phrase " the word made flesh ".

John - Chapter 1

Verse 1

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

1. The beginning of what?

Note*** God has no beginning or end.

Therefore it cannot be the beginning of life.

for God is life and has no beginning
nor no end.

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 07:31 PM
God giving Jesus authority doesn't make Jesus equal to Almighty God, because he was GIVEN that authority. I agree with you that Jesus is a mighty, important being, and that is what "god" means, after all. So he can be called A god, but not equal to the Almighty who gave him power and authority.

Are you equal to the U.S. president in terms of citizenship? (one vote, one person)

God is a kingdom and Paul said, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28).

jamie
April 18th, 2016, 07:36 PM
The wages of sin is death. Christ had no sin. Had He not given His life he would never had died.


He was born to die, that was his mission in life. Jesus metaphorically became sin, everyone's sin. He had no power of his own.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:41 PM
He was born to die, that was his mission in life. Jesus metaphorically became sin, everyone's sin. He had no power of his own.

How did Jesus become sin?

First they say Jesus is God
and God became flesh then God became sin.

What is next?

God is the devil too?

Oh God when will all this stupidity end?

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:43 PM
I have read through some of what you all have said.

Most all of it or at least the majority of it is incorrect.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:44 PM
But God did tell me

They will not know they do not know.

And even if you tell them they will not believe you.

Word
April 18th, 2016, 07:47 PM
So

Lets start from the beginning.

The very basics of truth.

There are only two races of people on all the earth.

Who are they?

Do any of you know this very simple basic truth?

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 04:18 AM
I followed her posts and she is into details about the topic using theologians' knowledge.

Her knowledge seems to come from them.

But is it knowledge or merely an excuse for willful ignorance?

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 04:46 AM
[QUOTE]Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel?

Try this out: If the human being was meant to be more than what Adam was then Adam was not yet as God intended him to be. Ergo, Adam was not perfect. Perfection in God, doesn't rebel. Adam, in his sinless state, could only have touched it until he had eaten of the "Tree of Life". At that point would he have secured to himself the power from an indwelling of the Word of God before any more moral choices would have needed to be made, if any at all..


Jesus was a perfect individual when in heaven.

But, when in heaven before His incarnation, Jesus was not human. He was the Word of God who expressed/spoke the Heart of God in/from a Divine form in Whose image man was created; Who would be made fully human by being set in one Baby born of Adam's race who would instruct Him in the ways of son-ship in the Father, to Whom He would be a Son. 1John 1 and 2 speak of this as a challenge to us.


Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

Angels could never have qualified to take the place of Jesus Who was a human born of Adam's race, born with a universal substance called, "blood". Blood is how all of mankind could and would be infected with sin and how all of mankind would be redeemed from it's penalty. Angels have no blood to offer as on;y a human could. Angels were created beings made one at a time. Who could ever redeem fallen Angels? No one, which makes humankind very precious and needful to God for His bringing about what He has purposed in Himself, i.e, to have "MANY Sons brought unto glory" per Heb 2:10(KJV)!


He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

All made dirty by dirty blood __ All made clean by clean blood. . .

Does that makes sense? :)

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 05:36 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;4679607]

[QUOTE]Cross, I have to apologize. I haven't been on forums in years, and I get too easily defensive and caught up. what I say may have been true (even if you disagree) but it was not said in Love. I did not bring forth the quality/character/activity of Love, and for that I am truly sorry. I am confessing my fault to you. I have felt awful all day since I reacted such. Please forgive me.

No worries and thank you, my sister. No one is more guilty than me for which I need your forgiveness as well. As hard as I try to be otherwise, I fail. But then perhaps, this is the reason for forums that we learn what God is really trying to teach us when truly sincere hearts are put to the test for what we believe is true.


We clearly have a lot of disagreements here, coming from very different perspectives. I want to from henceforth more graciously, thoughtfully, and intentionally respond.

The operative word indeed is "perspectives".


My problems with kenoticism are thus:

Sorry but, the meaning of "kenoticism" is lost on me.


1. It emphasizes Christ's humanity inordinately, and so

2. Too much distinguishes Father and Son into separate beings, not just separate persons. I have heard many who teach/are taught this doctrine to refer to the trinity as three GUYS, or DUDES, which the fathers at Nicea never intended.

3. It is not about what Christ's actions. It is about who He was, and what He did only because of who He was. If he was not authentically divine, then it is invalid.

And that 1 Cor passage is only talking about passing experiential knowledge (gnosis) according to meat sacrificed to idols, not clear and exact experiential knowledge by divine revelation of faith (epignosis).

I just sent this to KingdomRose:


[QUOTE=KingdomRose;4680030]


*Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel?

Try this out: If the human being was meant to be more than what Adam was then Adam was not yet as God intended him to be. Ergo, Adam was not perfect. Perfection in God, doesn't rebel. Adam, in his sinless state, could only have touched it until he had eaten of the "Tree of Life". At that point would he have secured to himself the power from an indwelling of the Word of God before any more moral choices would have needed to be made, if any at all..

*Jesus was a perfect individual when in heaven.

But, when in heaven before His incarnation, Jesus was not human. He was the Word of God who expressed/spoke the Heart of God in/from a Divine form in Whose image man was created; Who would be made fully human by being set in one Baby born of Adam's race who would instruct Him in the ways of son-ship in the Father, to Whom He would be a Son. 1John 1 and 2 speak of this as a challenge to us.


*Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

Angels could never have qualified to take the place of Jesus Who was a human born of Adam's race, born with a universal substance called, "blood". Blood is how all of mankind could and would be infected with sin and how all of mankind would be redeemed from it's penalty. Angels have no blood to offer as on;y a human could. Angels were created beings made one at a time. Who could ever redeem fallen Angels? No one, which makes humankind very precious and needful to God for His bringing about what He has purposed in Himself, i.e, to have "MANY Sons brought unto glory" per Heb 2:10(KJV)!


*He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

All made dirty by dirty blood __ All made clean by clean blood. . .

Does that help in making sense as to where I stand in this matter?


OMT: You wrote above in another thread:


We had the natural in Israel. Now we have the Spiritual in Christ. (1 Corinthians 15) Thus the natural must be subordinate to the spiritual.

Keeping in mind that Jesus was vulnerable to Satan and it was His responsibility to protect Himself from perdition, If we could only understand that God had such confidence in His human son Jesus that He willingly subordinated Himself to Him [equal submission]. In other words, [up front] whatever Jesus wanted to do God would pay the price irrespective of the outcome of His choice in the matter.

The reason we have a future in God ahead of us instead eternal damnation is because Jesus never failed in His allegiance to His Father and He learned His allegiance from the written scriptures, taught Him by the Holy Spirit.

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 05:52 AM
But is it knowledge or merely an excuse for willful ignorance?

I don't believe in seeking the Truth from men, any man, no matter how popular or smart they are.

Christianity is all about Jesus and His teachings.

His teachings are not complicated at all.

Those "smart" or "highly intelligent" or "very scholastic theologians" are not as nearly as smart as Jesus when it comes to God's kingsom. There is no comparison.

Jesus says don't let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

I just started a thread about the whole truth gospel.

I encourage you to read it, friend.:)

In fact, I am prepared part two now.

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 06:33 AM
[QUOTE]I don't believe in seeking the Truth from men, any man, no matter how popular or smart they are.

Can you see that by that appproach to understanding you just might have had a problem with Jesus?


Christianity is all about Jesus and His teachings.

Which have no light in them of themselves, correct?


His teachings are not complicated at all.

As principles to live by, impossibly difficult to live out.


Those "smart" or "highly intelligent" or "very scholastic theologians" are not as nearly as smart as Jesus when it comes to God's kingsom. There is no comparison.

Maybe, maybe not. If you [or me] could understand their sometimes complicated vocabulary, don't you think you might find agreement in some of what they are saying?


Jesus says don't let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

Why not? If I said I was a son of my Father, what would be your reply?


I just started a thread about the whole truth gospel.

I encourage you to read it, friend.:)

In fact, I am prepared part two now.

By that you are stating that you are a teacher???

Perhaps you can help me out with that? You are leaving me a bit confused.

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 06:42 AM
[

By that you are stating that you are a teacher???

Nope, I am only a messenger. I point people to Jesus' word to read the Gospel to know perfect love of God.

You don't seem to know the difference.

I cannot teach perfect love of God and Jesus.

God is love. He is teaching us how to love God and one another through His Son, Jesus.

Christianity is all about God's perfect love and peace.''

Jesus teaches us all about love in books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 06:46 AM
Nope, I am only a messenger. I point people to Jesus' word to read the Gospel to know perfect love of God.

You don't seem to know the difference.

I cannot teach perfect love of God and Jesus.

God is love. He is teaching us how to love God and one another through His Son, Jesus.

Christianity is all about God's perfect love and peace.''

Jesus teaches us all about love in books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Christianity is more about opinions about Jesus than anything else.

NOW: Since you see fit to bring correction to me because you believe I don't understand, I must assume you are going to teach me because if you weren't, you would stop trying.

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 06:53 AM
Christianity is more about opinions about Jesus than anything else.

That's right, that's why I point people to read Jesus' word.

Jesus says to "go therefore, make disciple's of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you".

He gave us command to tell the world about His commands which is written in the books of gospels.

The Christianity is chaotic because we are neglecting to inform people to read Jesus' Gospel.

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 06:55 AM
You seem to be avoiding the point I am making.

Your kind of faith contribute to chaotic Christianity greatly.

Cross Reference
April 19th, 2016, 07:42 AM
That's right, that's why I point people to read Jesus' word.

Jesus says to "go therefore, make disciple's of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you".



Ah, so we are to be teachers. I understand. I guess that is what Paul was referring to here:

"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings/baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits."
Hebrews 6:1-3 (ESV)

Do you think so?

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 08:16 AM
Ah, so we are to be teachers.

You are playing word game.

You are playing a Christian.

Playing game is contributed to hypocritical Christianity, friend.

You ought to stop it.

Most threads are playing word games, never endingly.

meshak
April 19th, 2016, 08:23 AM
CR,

You are playing word game as usual like most of your thread you are participated in.

It is meaningless because it is all about your own ego how smart your are and how knowledgeable you are.

It is all about your own ego, nothing else.

so I will not continue with you on this meaningless talk.

good day, you are on ignore.

Cross Reference
April 20th, 2016, 03:36 AM
Can a saint slander God?

"For all the promises of God in Him are yea, and in Him Amen". 2 Cor. 1:20 KJV.

"Jesus told the parable of the talents recorded in Matthew 25 as a warning that it is possible for us to misjudge our capacity. This parable has not to do with natural gifts, but with the Pentecostal gift of the Holy Ghost. We must not measure our spiritual capacity by education or by intellect; our capacity in spiritual things is measured by the promises of God. If we get less than God wants us to have, before long we will slander Him as the servant slandered his master: ‘You expect more than You give me power to do; You demand too much of me, I cannot stand true to You where I am placed.’ When it is a question of God’s Almighty Spirit, never say ‘I can’t.’ Never let the limitation of natural ability come in. If we have received the Holy Spirit, God expects the work of the Holy Spirit to be manifested in us.

The servant justified himself in everything he did and condemned his lord on every point—‘Your demand is out of all proportion to what you give.’ Have we been slandering God by daring to worry when He has said: “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you”? Worrying means exactly what this servant implied—‘I know You mean to leave me in the lurch.’ The person who is lazy naturally is always captious—‘I haven’t had a decent chance,’ and the one who is lazy spiritually is captious with God. Lazy people always strike out on an independent line.

Never forget that our capacity in spiritual matters is measured by the promises of God. Is God able to fulfil His promises? Our answer depends on whether we have received the Holy Spirit". . . . . Oswald Chambers

Cross Reference
April 20th, 2016, 04:04 AM
There can be no question the Author of creation was God-*Word of Himself (John 1:1,14 KJV). However, according to Paul in speaking of the man Jesus, the Author of our salvation, he wrote: ". . it pleased the Father that in him [Jesus of Nazereth] should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him [again, Jesus of Nazareth], I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." Colossians 1:19-20 (KJV)

*"Word" of Himself who became flesh, that seperate unity emptied of Divinity that He be made vulnerable to failure as Adam..

Question: Who is God referring to if not a seperate entity who protected/preserved the union with Himself while in mortal flesh, preeminence over all things being His reward? Jesus, the man now Glorified in Whom the complete Godhead is now worshipped.

keypurr
April 20th, 2016, 11:00 PM
Not according to John 4
24 : God is a Spirit:

God is seven Spirits and they are one.


More English translations say spirit not a spirit friend. Do not put all your trust in the KJV.

Word
April 21st, 2016, 06:29 PM
More English translations say spirit not a spirit friend. Do not put all your trust in the KJV.
I don't and don't you put your trust in any English translations.
And I would even advise you to not put your trust
in anything but the
Spirit of God.

Word
April 21st, 2016, 06:30 PM
As I have already stated I happen to know
there are seven Spirits of God because
they revealed themselves to me.

Not because I read it from any book.

keypurr
April 21st, 2016, 06:32 PM
I don't and don't you put your trust in any English translations.
And I would even advise you to not put your trust
in anything but the
Spirit of God.
I learn from his words friend, but the translation I like best is not from the Greek.

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jamie
April 21st, 2016, 07:06 PM
I learn from his words friend, but the translation I like best is not from the Greek.


The translation you like best is also flawed. For example John 17 in your version says: "17 Because, The Namusa {The Law} was given through Mushe {Moses}, but, The Shrara {The Truth} and The Taybutha {The Grace} came to be through Eshu Mshikha {Yeshua The Anointed One}.

In the KJV and the NKJV the "but" is italicized, meaning it was added to the text.

The NASB translates the verse correctly: "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No But.

The YLT translates: "for the law through Moses was given, the grace and the truth through Jesus Christ did come. No but.

The "but" in your version is misleading in that it presents the Law of Moses in opposition to grace and truth. There is actually no opposition.

There has always only been one way of salvation, not two.

Word
April 21st, 2016, 07:22 PM
I learn from his words friend, but the translation I like best is not from the Greek.

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I do not have to learn anything.
The Knowledge of God is in me.
The Spirit of God is in me.

I have all the Wisdom and Knowledge of God within me.

His Spirit is in me.

keypurr
April 21st, 2016, 11:06 PM
The translation you like best is also flawed. For example John 17 in your version says: "17 Because, The Namusa {The Law} was given through Mushe {Moses}, but, The Shrara {The Truth} and The Taybutha {The Grace} came to be through Eshu Mshikha {Yeshua The Anointed One}.

In the KJV and the NKJV the "but" is italicized, meaning it was added to the text.

The NASB translates the verse correctly: "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No But.

The YLT translates: "for the law through Moses was given, the grace and the truth through Jesus Christ did come. No but.

The "but" in your version is misleading in that it presents the Law of Moses in opposition to grace and truth. There is actually no opposition.

There has always only been one way of salvation, not two.

I have no idea what translation your quoting but it is not the AENT.

keypurr
April 21st, 2016, 11:15 PM
Yochanan 1:17 AENT

Because Torah was given through Moshe, but truth and grace through Y'shus who is the Mashiyach.


I suggest you buy the AENT at
www.AENT.org

It is well worth the forty bucks. The notes alone are worth more.

keypurr
April 21st, 2016, 11:18 PM
I do not have to learn anything.
The Knowledge of God is in me.
The Spirit of God is in me.

I have all the Wisdom and Knowledge of God within me.

His Spirit is in me.

His spirit as been within me for many years and I think you have a lot to learn.

If you have all the wisdom of God give us a cure for Cancer.

Ben Masada
April 21st, 2016, 11:30 PM
When was He conceived?

Okay Word, when the time was due for Joseph to sleep with Mary. That's when. They were too anxious. They could wait no longer to fulfill the first commandment. (Gen. 2:24) Didn't Jesus come to fulfill the whole Law down to the letter? There!

Ben Masada
April 21st, 2016, 11:45 PM
Yochanan 1:17 AENT

Because Torah was given through Moshe, but truth and grace through Y'shus who is the Mashiyach.

Thank you Keypurr! I thought you were my friend. So, there is no truth in our Torah! Just kidding! I know this one is from John, not you. Anyway, we must not remind ourselves of what divides but unites in Interfaith dealogues. Besides, Jesus was not the Messiah. The Messiah cannot be an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to wait for a Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) BTW, just to add the word of a Prophet, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)



It is well worth the forty bucks. The notes alone are worth more.

Lazy afternoon
April 22nd, 2016, 12:20 AM
Christ, the Son of God was eternally generated, but Jesus, the Son of Man came into being in the fullness of time, when conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Keypurr believes that.

I don't.

LA

Cross Reference
April 22nd, 2016, 07:07 AM
Keypurr believes that.

I don't.

LA

How come? Just askin'.

jamie
April 22nd, 2016, 08:16 AM
Yochanan 1:17 AENT
Because Torah was given through Moshe, but truth and grace through Y'shus who is the Mashiyach.


The word "but" was added by men, that word is not in the Greek text and should not be in English translations.

Cross Reference
April 22nd, 2016, 08:29 AM
The word "but" was added by men, that word is not in the Greek text and should not be in English translations.

"But" does it change the message or enhance it by adding emphasis from insight?

jamie
April 22nd, 2016, 08:34 AM
"But" does it change the message or enhance it by adding emphasis from insight?


It changes the message. There has always been only one way of salvation and that is by grace.

Cross Reference
April 22nd, 2016, 08:44 AM
It changes the message. There has always been only one way of salvation and that is by grace.

"But" it was Grace for salvation provided for by Jesus Christ.

jamie
April 22nd, 2016, 09:51 AM
"But" it was Grace for salvation provided for by Jesus Christ.


Which was true with Abel. Abel was saved by grace through his faith.

Christ hasn't changed and salvation only comes through Christ. (Acts 4:12)

Cross Reference
April 22nd, 2016, 10:04 AM
Which was true with Abel. Abel was saved by grace through his faith.

Christ hasn't changed and salvation only comes through Christ. (Acts 4:12) Likewise redemption which was of the same cross, which no one was nor could be redeemed, released from the grave, before the resurrection of Jesus..

Therefore, Abel was saved unto the promise of salvation. Same as anyone else in the OT who led a righteous life and died before Jesus gave His life on the cross.. For Abel, his "redemption" was 4 thousand years off.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:23 PM
It changes the message. There has always been only one way of salvation and that is by grace.What is grace?

Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 04:24 PM
What is grace?

Unmerited favor.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:24 PM
His spirit as been within me for many years

I do not believe God's Spirit is in you.
I do however believe you believe God's Spirit is in you.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:25 PM
I think you have a lot to learn.

What is it that you think I do not know?

Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 04:28 PM
I do not believe God's Spirit is in you.
I do however believe you believe God's Spirit is in you.
You're right

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:29 PM
If you have all the wisdom of God give us a cure for Cancer.
Cancer is a curse.
If you have cancer you have a curse upon you.

The cure as you say is to have the curse removed from off of you.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:31 PM
Okay Word, when the time was due for Joseph to sleep with Mary. That's when. They were too anxious. They could wait no longer to fulfill the first commandment. (Gen. 2:24) Didn't Jesus come to fulfill the whole Law down to the letter? There!

Jesus was conceived long
before He entered into your world
through a woman's womb.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:34 PM
Unmerited favor.
God does not give anything to anyone who does not deserve it.

That would be unholy and sin.

God does not do anything that is not worth
that which He did.

For example if you are not worth it to be saved
God is not going to save you.

God does not waste anything.

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:35 PM
Now the devil on the other hand will tell you no one
is worth the salvation of God and no one deserves anything good from God.

I would advise you to disregard his lies.

keypurr
April 22nd, 2016, 04:36 PM
Keypurr believes that.

I don't.

LA
Nope, keypurr thinks differently

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Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:36 PM
The only one who will praise you when you do not deserve it is the devil.

God will not do this sin.

There is no such thing as unmerited favor with God.

That is lies that the devil has spread among his children.

Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 04:37 PM
God does not give anything to anyone who does not deserve it.

That would be unholy and sin.

God does not do anything that is not worth
that which He did.

For example if you are not worth it to be saved
God is not going to save you.

God does not waste anything.

Yes He does. You do not deserve squat. Yet by believing in the sacrifice of His Son, you are given eternal life

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:38 PM
If God rewards you...you earned it and deserved it..

Word
April 22nd, 2016, 04:39 PM
Yes He does. You do not deserve squat. Yet by believing in the sacrifice of His Son, you are given eternal life

It is nothing to me what you believe.
I am not going to argue with you over it.

In fact the way you believe is the will of God.

keypurr
April 22nd, 2016, 04:42 PM
Cancer is a curse.
If you have cancer you have a curse upon you.

The cure as you say is to have the curse removed from off of you.
So if you love God and mankind cure them with the power of God that you say you have. Show us the power you have.

Only one human was ever given the fullness of the father, he died on a cross.

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Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM
It is nothing to me what you believe.
I am not going to argue with you over it.

In fact the way you believe is the will of God.

That is OK with me but you are bound up in works salvation.

keypurr
April 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jesus was conceived long
before He entered into your world
through a woman's womb.
Nope, Jesus was human, the Universe was not created by a man. The true Son of the most high is spirit. He needed a body to dwell in when the time was right. Jesus was that body.

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Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 04:50 PM
Nope, Jesus was human, the Universe was not created by a man. The true Son of the most high is spirit. He needed a body to dwell in when the time was right. Jesus was that body.

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Do you believe the scriptures?

Colossians 1:16-19New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

keypurr
April 22nd, 2016, 04:55 PM
Do you believe the scriptures?

Colossians 1:16-19New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
Who is HIM? In the first translations they used the word IT.

HIM is the spirt son, the express image of the Father. Jesus was a man created to hold that spirit. Jesus was not the HIM my friend, he held the HIM that he was given at his anointing.

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keypurr
April 22nd, 2016, 04:56 PM
Read Hebrews 1 BR.

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Bright Raven
April 22nd, 2016, 05:00 PM
Yes, what's the problem?

Hebrews 1:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Cross Reference
April 22nd, 2016, 05:06 PM
Do you believe the scriptures?

Colossians 1:16-19New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,


ANd who then did Moses see here: Ex. 33:20-22 KJV?