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View Full Version : The Christian life is about denying scriptures so as to obey Love, uncondtionally .



Gurucam
April 10th, 2016, 06:53 AM
1 John: 4 verse: 8 of the King James Version of the New Testament says:
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

God is Love therefore the Spirit of God are urging of Love.

The Spirit of God is the will of God.

Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(humans will know the will of God as urging of love)

John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

(humans will know God (Who is Spirit) as urging of love. This is the only way to know God and His Will)

Matthew: 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

(if you do not not know that the will of God are urgings of Love you have not found the straight gate and narrow way)

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Acts 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

(the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is unconditional obedience to urgings of love even if one has to ignore and transgress the law of sin and death)

Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(those who are in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus are not at all under the law of sin and death. At all events, those who are in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus must leave their old law based marriages behind. However having done this there are two choices for the next step.

a. One choice is to form new marriages according to urging of love and not according to what the ten commandments says.

b. The other choice is to be 'married' to 'him who is raised from the dead'.

In both these cases one will stop bringing forth fruits onto dead/children of the flesh and start bringing forth only fruits onto God/children onto God) )

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

(when humans are under the law of sin and death they bring forth only fruits onto death/children onto death. The Lord Jesus attempted to stop this by doing away with the the law of sin and death. However the law of sin and death could not be done away with for 'the dead', i.e. those whose hearts are waxed gross.)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(Speaking to those whose hearts are no longer waxed gross, i.e. no longer 'the dead', the Lord says: We are no longer dead within. Therefore we must drop the law of sin and death and serve in the newness of spirit. That is we must now serve love and not ideals and laws. That is we must embrace the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. And then we will stop bringing forth fruits onto dead and start bringing forth fruits onto God)

The above verses all confirm a very simple request, from the Lord Jesus.

The request is that, in all things and every thing, one must obey urging of love, unconditionally.

Also the verses confirm that one must do so even if one has to transgress all ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity (i.e. including laws in scriptures)

Also the above revelations confirm that when one is led by love unconditionally, in the above manner in all things, one brings forth only fruits onto God. With respect to children, when couples are led into their procreative sex by love (and not by law), they bring forth only children onto God.

Also the above revelations confirm that if one is not led by love, unconditionally in the above manner, in all things, one brings forth only fruits onto death. With respect to children, when couples are not led into their procreative sex by love, they bring forth only children onto death.

Also the above revelations confirm that those who esteem the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) bring forth only fruits onto God. With respect to children, those couples who are guided into their sexual procreation, by the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments), they bring forth only children onto God.

This is the literal truth from the KJV N.T.

Gurucam
April 10th, 2016, 08:18 AM
Be liberated from the 'killing fields'. I refer not to the fields where one is killed physically. I refer to the fields where one is killeth spiritually.

I refer to 'the dead burying their own kind, the dead'. 'The dead' describes the spiritually dead, i.e. one whose heart is waxed gross.

About 'the dead', the Lord said:

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (this described every one except the twelve disciples)

However to those who were chosen to follow the Lord, He said:

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear (this described only the twelve disciples).

The Lord confirmed that He encountered two different types of people and He treated them differently. He gave them totally different approaches to God's righteousness:

Matthews: 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, 1.) Follow me; and 2.) let the dead bury their dead.


Among which set, do you choose to be counted?

'The killing fields' refer to the absolute uninformed and indiscriminate use of 1.) the law of sin and death and 2.) the written scriptures by absolutely misguided and spiritually dead people. These are given (by Lord Jesus) for the dead to bury their dead counterparts. He instructed, 'let the dead bury their dead'

However spiritually dead leaders are foisting the things that are given for the dead to bury their dead onto aspiring Christians. They are false brethren mentioned in:

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Spiritually dead leaders cannot have a clue about things spiritual. They are simply unaware of things spiritual. However, Christianity is anchored on one's own spirit, the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Therefore spiritually dead people cannot be Christian popes, priests, pastors, etc. They will simply be false prophets who came in Jesus' name. And indeed they will misguide many. They will misguide everyone who comes to them seeking to be Christians.

The very great majority of these people were self-appoint or misguided into assuming leadership positions in what passes for Christianity, on earth. They are millions and they are literally misguiding and (spiritually) burying masses of (at least a billion) unsuspecting aspiring Christians.

This has resulted in many being called to Christianity and the very great majority being misled by these (seemingly unwitting) corrupt leaders. Then these great masses of aspiring Christians erroneously believe that they are getting Christianity. They err and do not make it. This seem to have been ongoing for the past 2000 odd years in traditional Christianity. These false prophets are within the highest place and highest leadership position in traditional Christianity.

Traditional Christianity is in serious need of being purified. The promise is that purification of what erroneously passed for Christianity, will happen only in the last days, i.e. in the fullness of time, which is now at hand.

Therefore this is the last opportunity for traditional Christians to awaken to or get truth. The straight gate and narrow way to life is only now being confirmed in simple and total clarity.

Please do not miss the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth onto life. Only the Spirit giveth life. The law and the scriptures do not giveth life. However, the end do not look good. It is confirmed in the KJV N.T. that at any event, only a few will be chosen from among the billion or so who are called to Christianity. That is only a few will find this straight gate and narrow way that leadeth onto life.

And these 'chosen' few will find it only in these last days (when Christianity will be finally purified). Among those called to Christianity, the chance of anyone being chosen is very very slim. Yet the opportunity will be openly offered to everyone, now in the fullness of time, in the simplest terms.

Mark 8 KJV N.T.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Luke: 9 KJV N.T.
25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

My posts are the literal truth from the KJV N.T. This is the surfacing of authentic Christianity which is totally and literally supported by the KJV N.T. revelations. This is the fullness of time. I urge you to embrace my posts. Then you can be among the last to Christianity. You will get truth and not err but be among the first of the few who are chosen.

Matthew 20 KJV N.T.
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The masses who are in traditional Christianity are 'the first to Christianity'. Many are veterans. They boldly but unwittingly quote parables for truth. They are a billion or so. It is prophesied that 'the first' shall be last. Considering that only a few are chosen, the situation in traditional Christianity is very very serious.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 08:37 AM
The Christian life is about denying scriptures so as to obey Love, uncondtionally .

Wow, what a convoluted title.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 08:43 AM
Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse unconditional love.

Salvation is not unconditional. It is conditioned to be faithful to Jesus and His teachings.

Still your title is so misgiving.

PureX
April 10th, 2016, 08:59 AM
As soon as someone starts spouting off about "obedience" relative to love, I know they are missing the mark. Because love has very little to do with obedience. Love neither demands it, nor responds with it. Love is the ultimate act of free will, while obedience is the negation of it.

When we can establish a concept and relationship with God that is NOT dependent on the idea of obedience, we will finally, perhaps, have established a concept of and relationship with God that is truly based on love.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 12:51 PM
As soon as someone starts spouting off about "obedience" relative to love, I know they are missing the mark. Because love has very little to do with obedience. Love neither demands it, nor responds with it. Love is the ultimate act of free will, while obedience is the negation of it.

When we can establish a concept and relationship with God that is NOT dependent on the idea of obedience, we will finally, perhaps, have established a concept of and relationship with God that is truly based on love.

Jesus sums us His commands in two: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus is all about love, friend.

You need to read His word.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 02:19 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse unconditional love.

Salvation is not unconditional. It is conditioned to be faithful to Jesus and His teachings.

Still your title is so misgiving.

God's love is unconditional. God loves us because he is love. Human love is conditional which is what you have.

Gurucam
April 10th, 2016, 02:26 PM
Matthew 20 KJV N.T.
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The masses who are in traditional Christianity are 'the first to Christianity'. Many are veterans. They boldly but unwittingly quote and use parables for truth. They are a billion or so. It is prophesied that 'the first' shall be last. Considering that only a few are chosen, the situation in traditional Christianity is very very serious.

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

From the above revelation, parables were given only for:
1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

Parables are given for the dead to bury their dead. Do any of you guys use parables?

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 02:29 PM
God's love is unconditional. God loves us because he is love. Human love is conditional which is what you have.

What is your point?

The Bible is all about salvation.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 02:35 PM
God dose not give you salvation if you don't love God and Jesus.

So it is conditional.

Gurucam
April 10th, 2016, 02:38 PM
As soon as someone starts spouting off about "obedience" relative to love, I know they are missing the mark. Because love has very little to do with obedience. Love neither demands it, nor responds with it. Love is the ultimate act of free will, while obedience is the negation of it.

When we can establish a concept and relationship with God that is NOT dependent on the idea of obedience, we will finally, perhaps, have established a concept of and relationship with God that is truly based on love.

What about parables do you quote and use them?

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

In the above, the Lord Jesus confirmed that parables were given only for:
1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

Do you quote and use parables? A billion strong traditional Christians are quoting and using parables under the misguided idea that it is truth.

With respect to love:

Are you aware that God is a Spirit?

Are you aware that the Spirit of God is the Will of God?

Are you aware that only those who do the will of God enters His kingdom of heaven?

Are you aware that God is Love and only those who have loved know God?

Are you aware that doing the Will of God is obedience to Love?

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 02:41 PM
Epo,

This is what Jesus says who is the center of salvation:

"for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life".

You see, "whoever believes in Him..." Believe in Him is conditional. so simple.

good try but no cigar.

PureX
April 10th, 2016, 02:44 PM
What about parables do you quote and use them?I don't understand how this question is relevant to my post.

I rarely quote anyone else, since I can usually make myself understood by my own words. But what does this have to do with my pointing out that love is not about obedience, nor is obedience about love?

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 02:45 PM
Guru,

You are making this so complicated with wordy posts and reasoning.

So I am making it simple so everyone can understand and get the point.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 03:45 PM
God dose not give you salvation if you don't love God and Jesus.

So it is conditional.

God gave you Salvation 'in Christ' before you were born or did anything good or bad.

That's Love!!!

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 04:26 PM
God gave you Salvation 'in Christ' before you were born or did anything good or bad.

That's Love!!!

So you are Calvinist.

You make up your own salvation, disregarding Jesus' word.

You have no bases for your claim.

very convenient one.

Unfortunately there are many people like your salvation but you will not get it because you don't value Jesus' word.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 04:33 PM
Epo,

Are you Calvinist or Universalist?

They have many in common in what they claim and your are claiming the same.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:14 PM
Epo,

Are you Calvinist or Universalist?

They have many in common in what they claim and your are claiming the same.

I'm a three and a half point Arminian. I reject the Arminian provisional atonement hands down. What Christ accomplished at the cross was perfect, finished and complete for the whole world. I also believe in a limited form of eternal security. Instead of once saved always saved I believe in once mature always mature. Mature believers in Christ do not fall away but the babes in Christ can and often do fall away.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:30 PM
I'm a three and a half point Arminian. I reject the Arminian provisional atonement hands down. What Christ accomplished at the cross was perfect, finished and complete for the whole world. I also believe in a limited form of eternal security. Instead of once saved always saved I believe in once mature always mature. Mature believers in Christ do not fall away but the babes in Christ can and often do fall away.

whatever your theology is your dismissal of Jesus conditional love message is not good.

It certainly tickles itching ears but that about it. It sound empty "love".

"for God love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

You are dismissing the core of Jesus' love message.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:32 PM
whatever your theology is your dismissal of Jesus conditional love message is not good.

It certainly tickles itching ears but that about it. It sound empty "love".

"for God love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

You are dismissing the core of Jesus' love message.

God's love is unconditional.

Meshak's love is conditional and there's the problem.

You view God thru the lens of your sinful flesh.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:35 PM
God's love is unconditional.

Meshak's love is conditional and there's the problem.

You view God thru the lens of your sinful flesh.

You can repeat Jesus-less love all you want. You will not be loved by God nor Jesus if you don't have faith in God and Jesus.

"For God so love world...."

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:40 PM
Epo,

You have to dismiss or disregard many of Jesus' word to push your doctrine.

Do you know Jesus says "if you love Me, keep My commands"?

You see Jesus is talking about love here too.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:43 PM
Epo,

You have to dismiss or disregard many of Jesus' word to push your doctrine.

Do you know Jesus says "if you love Me, keep My commands"?

You see Jesus is talking about love here too.

Jesus's entire ministry was under the old covenant and predominantly to the children of Israel. After the cross a much different message went out. Even in the council of Christ to the seven churches there is not one mention of any law-keeping. A whole lot about love, faith and patience but no law.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:45 PM
Jesus's entire ministry was under the old covenant and predominantly to the children of Israel. After the cross a much different message went out. Even in the council of Christ to the seven churches there is not one mention of any law-keeping. A whole lot about love, faith and patience but no law.

So you dismiss Jesus' word to push your theory?

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:47 PM
So you dismiss Jesus' word to push your theory?

You're a law monger and a carnal Christian devoid of love, grace and faith.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:47 PM
Epo,

Are you MADist?

They believe Jesus' word is not for the gentiles and just for the Jews. It seems you are claiming the same.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:51 PM
Epo,

Are you MADist?

They believe Jesus' word is not for the gentiles and just for the Jews. It seems you are claiming the same.

I'm not a MADist.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:52 PM
You're a law monger and a carnal Christian devoid of love, grace and faith.

Christianity is all about following Jesus and His teachings.

Jesus says if you love Me, keep My commands. It is not my law, it is Jesus' law to keep.

Are you Jesus' follower?

If so why do you dismiss His word?

patrick jane
April 10th, 2016, 05:52 PM
Epo,

Are you Calvinist or Universalist?

They have many in common in what they claim and your are claiming the same.

Are you a grace rejector or a circumcision believer

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:52 PM
I'm not a MADist.

You can fool me.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 05:56 PM
You can fool me.

I'm a post-trib, premill, non-dispensational futurist.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 05:59 PM
I'm a post-trib, premill, non-dispensational futurist.

Your dismissal of Jesus' word is very much like MADist's.

they are very big on that and so are you.

Epoisses
April 10th, 2016, 06:02 PM
Your dismissal of Jesus' word is very much like MADist's.

they are very big on that and so are you.

Jesus never told the Gentiles to keep the law so in that respect they are right.

You think you're a Jew and you're not. You're just a dumb Gentile.

meshak
April 10th, 2016, 06:10 PM
Jesus never told the Gentiles to keep the law so in that respect they are right.

You think you're a Jew and you're not. You're just a dumb Gentile.

so you are MADist.

I thought so.

Anyway, it is not good to disregard Jesus' word and claiming to be His follower.

Jesus' word is blessing and is for the whole word.

You are spreading false Gospel, friend.

Here is what He says which you also dismiss: "Go therefor make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you".

Gurucam
April 11th, 2016, 01:00 AM
I don't understand how this question is relevant to my post.

I rarely quote anyone else, since I can usually make myself understood by my own words. But what does this have to do with my pointing out that love is not about obedience, nor is obedience about love?

Do not be concerned about your post, about your own words and your own understanding. They are no biggie. Those are simply your ego trip which leadeth to err.

Instead be concerned about truth and the path to Truth and your salvation and deliverance. These are the literal revelations in the KJV N.T.. These do not need interpretations and/or understanding. Simply take them as stated.

Therefore be concerned only about the literal message in the KJV N.T.

Additionally, at best, your conclusion is founded on parables. And parables are not for aspiring Christians and Christians. The Lord Jesus gave parables for the dead to bury their dead.

The literal words in the KJV N.T. records the Lord Jesus confirming with absolute clarity that He gave parables only for:

1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

We are not about parables for they killeth. We are about that which giveth life.

We are about being Christians. Therefore we seek ye first the identity of God as recorded in the KJV N.T. We do not make up our own ideas and seek to pass that off as Christianity. You should do the same.

However if you make up your own ideas, based on your own understanding, then do not pass those off as Christianity. Christianity is anchored on the literal revelations in the KJV N.T. That is what Christians quote.

The identity of God is very clearly confirmed in 1 John: 4 verse: 8 of the KJV N.T.

1 John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


We, Christians, take the above literally and so should you. We, the chosen few Christians, also take Jesus literally, to His word whether this is about parables and/or any thing else. We are not concerned about what your word and/or what you understand and/or interpret.

Your statement (which is quoted above) is anti-scriptures and anti-christian.

Gurucam
April 11th, 2016, 01:03 AM
I don't understand how this question is relevant to my post.

I rarely quote anyone else, since I can usually make myself understood by my own words. But what does this have to do with my pointing out that love is not about obedience, nor is obedience about love?

Do not be concerned about your post, about your own words and your own understanding. They are no biggie. Those are simply your ego trip which leadeth to err.

Instead be concerned about truth and the path to Truth and your salvation and deliverance. These are the literal revelations in the KJV N.T.. These do not need interpretations and/or understanding. Simply take them as stated.

Therefore be concerned only about the literal message in the KJV N.T.

I mentioned parables because, at best, your conclusion is founded on parables. And parables are not for aspiring Christians and Christians. The Lord Jesus gave parables for the dead to bury their dead. Therefore you statement is not relevant here. I have simply sought to politely tell why your statement is irrelevant.

The literal words in the KJV N.T. records the Lord Jesus confirming with absolute clarity that He gave parables only for:

1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

We are not about parables for they killeth. We are about that which giveth life.

We are about being Christians. Therefore we seek ye first the identity of God as recorded in the KJV N.T. We do not make up our own ideas and seek to pass that off as Christianity. You should do the same.

However if you make up your own ideas, based on your own understanding, that is O.K. You are simply putting aside God's righteousness and going about your own righteousness. However to seek to pass that off as Christianity is a serious transgression. Do not pass those off as Christianity. Christianity is anchored on the literal revelations in the KJV N.T. That is what Christians quote.

The identity of God is very clearly confirmed in 1 John: 4 verse: 8 of the KJV N.T.

1 John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

We, Christians, take the above literally and so should you. We, the chosen few Christians, also take Jesus literally, to His word whether this is about parables and/or any thing else. We are not concerned about your words and/or what you understand and/or interpret. We are stuck in Jesus' words.

Your statement (quoted under) is anti-scriptures and anti-christian.


As soon as someone starts spouting off about "obedience" relative to love, I know they are missing the mark . Because love has very little to do with obedience. Love neither demands it, nor responds with it. Love is the ultimate act of free will, while obedience is the negation of it.

When we can establish a concept and relationship with God that is NOT dependent on the idea of obedience, we will finally, perhaps, have established a concept of and relationship with God that is truly based on love.

'Missing the mark'? Which mark? Certainly not the Christian mark.

According to Christianity and the KJV N.T., doing the will of God is totally about obeying love . . . simply because God is Love.

Clearly Love arise out of God's volition. However humans can and do exercise their free will, whether or not to be guided by or be led by this Love. Many ignore Love/God so as to uphold the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments). This is totally Anti-Christian and Anti-scriptures. They are 'the dead'.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Christianity is about having God given freedom to transgress the law of sin and death so as to obey Love/God unconditionally. This means that one has God given freedom to transgress the law of adultery when one is led to do so because one loves someone other than one's lawful spouse. This is described as serving in the newness of spirit, so as to bring forth only children onto God (this is how Issac brought forth his generation of children of God).

On the other hand Ishmael who remained dead to God/Love (and therefore could not be led by Love/God) continued under the law of sin and death. He brought forth a generation of only children of the flesh.

Spirit and spirit is about Love and love. Serving in the newness of spirit, as it relates to bringing forth children, is about being led to sexually procreate by love's urgings and not laws.

Serving in the newness of spirit is about being led into one's sexual procreative act by love for one's partner, even if one has to transgress the law of adultery and all other law of sin and death.

Do not be deceived. Those who esteem the law of sin and death are 'the dead'. Their hearts are waxed gross. They cannot be Christians. They are the dead who bury their dead. Only 'the dead' can and do discern wisdom in the law of sin and death. Only they esteem the law of sin and death and apply it on themselves and others.

On the other hand, those whose hearts are not 'waxed gross' cannot and do not esteem the law of sin and death. They are led by Love even if they have to transgress the law of sin and death. They cannot do otherwise. In fact they cannot promote the law of sin and death for use by anyone. Only they are Christians.

Your statement, "As soon as someone starts spouting off about "obedience" relative to love, I know they are missing the mark" is totally anti-scriptures and anti-christian.

That is your own made up idea which you are corruptly trying to pass off as Christian. Your idea seemed derived from interpreting parables.

All foolishness, that is corruptly passed off as Christianity, comes from interpreting parables. Parables are for the dead to bury their dead. Parables are not for aspiring Christians and Christians.

Gurucam
April 11th, 2016, 05:10 AM
God gave you Salvation 'in Christ' before you were born or did anything good or bad.

That's Love!!!

Not so. That is not so. You have discarded God's righteousness and gone about making up your own righteousness.

If, as you said, 'God gave you Salvation 'in Christ' before you were born or did anything good or bad' then all would be saved and delivered. However this is not so. It is no done deal.

It is confirmed, with absolute clarity, that one must find the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth onto life and only a few will find this straight gate and narrow way, i.e. only a few will make it:

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Also:

Matthew 22 King James Version (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen. (there is salvation only for the chosen few)

Therefore one must do works in order to be saved and delivered. One must find the strait gate and narrow way in order to be saved and delivered. It is not a done deal. And it confirmed that only a few will find this straight gate and narrow way.

You were told to seek ye fist the kingdom of God within. This is works. Seeking is works. This is the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth to life.

If you sit on your behind and do not find the straight gate and narrow way you are done for. Then, at event, when one finds the straight gate and narrow way that leadth to life, there is further works to be done. It is no done deal.

Indeed, one has to do further works in order to be saved and delivered. One must do the Will of God to enter heaven. It is not a done deal. You have been misled and you will misled all who take you seriously.

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Also one has to be led by the Spirit in order to be saved and delivered. To be led by the Spirit means doing works according to the will of God.

One has to sow according to the Spirit in order to gain eternal life. This is active works. Although Jesus died on the cross, if you do not sow according to the Spirit you are not saved and/or delivered.

Indeed the great masses sow according to the flesh and foolishly believe that salvation and deliverance is done deal and they are safe. It is prophesied that there will be bitter disappointment among the very great masses who were misled.

Do not be a totally misled dreamer.

TulipBee
April 11th, 2016, 06:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse unconditional love.

Salvation is not unconditional. It is conditioned to be faithful to Jesus and His teachings.

Still your title is so misgiving.
Conditioned on God's own pleasures, not man's works. God does the choosing first (on some, not all) before man is born and those he chose will be saved. That means man didn't do a thing to earn the gift of faith that was given to him before he believed. You worked to gain salvation and that isn't biblical. Good most save you and then you work afterwards. You don't work first and then believe. Mankind don't have that ability on thier own

meshak
April 11th, 2016, 06:48 AM
[COLOR="#0000FF"]

Indeed, one has to do further works in order to be saved and delivered. One must do the Will of God to enter heaven. It is not a done deal. You have been misled and you will misled all who take you seriously.

Well said brother:)

Amen.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 08:11 AM
Not so. That is not so. You have discarded God's righteousness and gone about making up your own righteousness.

If, as you said, 'God gave you Salvation 'in Christ' before you were born or did anything good or bad' then all would be saved and delivered. However this is not so. It is no done deal.

It is confirmed, with absolute clarity, that one must find the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth onto life and only a few will find this straight gate and narrow way, i.e. only a few will make it:

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Also:

Matthew 22 King James Version (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen. (there is salvation only for the chosen few)

Therefore one must do works in order to be saved and delivered. One must find the strait gate and narrow way in order to be saved and delivered. It is not a done deal. And it confirmed that only a few will find this straight gate and narrow way.

You were told to seek ye fist the kingdom of God within. This is works. Seeking is works. This is the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth to life.

If you sit on your behind and do not find the straight gate and narrow way you are done for. Then, at event, when one finds the straight gate and narrow way that leadth to life, there is further works to be done. It is no done deal.

Indeed, one has to do further works in order to be saved and delivered. One must do the Will of God to enter heaven. It is not a done deal. You have been misled and you will misled all who take you seriously.

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Also one has to be led by the Spirit in order to be saved and delivered. To be led by the Spirit means doing works according to the will of God.

One has to sow according to the Spirit in order to gain eternal life. This is active works. Although Jesus died on the cross, if you do not sow according to the Spirit you are not saved and/or delivered.

Indeed the great masses sow according to the flesh and foolishly believe that salvation and deliverance is done deal and they are safe. It is prophesied that there will be bitter disappointment among the very great masses who were misled.

Do not be a totally misled dreamer.

Finding the straight gate is understanding that you can't save yourself and Jesus paid it all.

You haven't entered into the rest of God yet, you're still out in the wasteland of unbelief.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 08:13 AM
Well said brother:)

Amen.

You're still out in the wasteland of unbelief too.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 08:17 AM
Conditioned on God's own pleasures, not man's works. God does the choosing first (on some, not all) before man is born and those he chose will be saved. That means man didn't do a thing to earn the gift of faith that was given to him before he believed. You worked to gain salvation and that isn't biblical. Good most save you and then you work afterwards. You don't work first and then believe. Mankind don't have that ability on thier own

And you're in the wasteland of unbelief too just on the opposite side. God has chosen all men to be saved 'in Christ'. He desires all men to come to repentance and receive the free gift of Salvation. We know that all men won't come to repentance but that's not God's fault.

meshak
April 11th, 2016, 03:19 PM
You're still out in the wasteland of unbelief too.

You are the one who don't believe in Jesus' loving messages.

Your faith is Christ-less.

Angel4Truth
April 11th, 2016, 03:41 PM
1 John: 4 verse: 8 of the King James Version of the New Testament says:
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

God is Love therefore the Spirit of God are urging of Love.

The Spirit of God is the will of God.

Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(humans will know the will of God as urging of love)

John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

(humans will know God (Who is Spirit) as urging of love. This is the only way to know God and His Will)

Matthew: 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

(if you do not not know that the will of God are urgings of Love you have not found the straight gate and narrow way)

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Acts 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

(the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is unconditional obedience to urgings of love even if one has to ignore and transgress the law of sin and death)

Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(those who are in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus are not at all under the law of sin and death. At all events, those who are in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus must leave their old law based marriages behind. However having done this there are two choices for the next step.

a. One choice is to form new marriages according to urging of love and not according to what the ten commandments says.

b. The other choice is to be 'married' to 'him who is raised from the dead'.

In both these cases one will stop bringing forth fruits onto dead/children of the flesh and start bringing forth only fruits onto God/children onto God) )

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

(when humans are under the law of sin and death they bring forth only fruits onto death/children onto death. The Lord Jesus attempted to stop this by doing away with the the law of sin and death. However the law of sin and death could not be done away with for 'the dead', i.e. those whose hearts are waxed gross.)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

(Speaking to those whose hearts are no longer waxed gross, i.e. no longer 'the dead', the Lord says: We are no longer dead within. Therefore we must drop the law of sin and death and serve in the newness of spirit. That is we must now serve love and not ideals and laws. That is we must embrace the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. And then we will stop bringing forth fruits onto dead and start bringing forth fruits onto God)

The above verses all confirm a very simple request, from the Lord Jesus.

The request is that, in all things and every thing, one must obey urging of love, unconditionally.

Also the verses confirm that one must do so even if one has to transgress all ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity (i.e. including laws in scriptures)

Also the above revelations confirm that when one is led by love unconditionally, in the above manner in all things, one brings forth only fruits onto God. With respect to children, when couples are led into their procreative sex by love (and not by law), they bring forth only children onto God.

Also the above revelations confirm that if one is not led by love, unconditionally in the above manner, in all things, one brings forth only fruits onto death. With respect to children, when couples are not led into their procreative sex by love, they bring forth only children onto death.

Also the above revelations confirm that those who esteem the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) bring forth only fruits onto God. With respect to children, those couples who are guided into their sexual procreation, by the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments), they bring forth only children onto God.

This is the literal truth from the KJV N.T.

John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

TulipBee
April 11th, 2016, 08:34 PM
And you're in the wasteland of unbelief too just on the opposite side. God has chosen all men to be saved 'in Christ'. He desires all men to come to repentance and receive the free gift of Salvation. We know that all men won't come to repentance but that's not God's fault.
No, you said no one goes to hell cause Jesus died for all of them. False theology

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 11:02 PM
You are the one who don't believe in Jesus' loving messages.

Your faith is Christ-less.

At least I can admit that I'm a Gentile. You haven't figure that out yet!! Why don't you follow the words of Christ in his council to the seven churches of Revelation? There is no doubt that he is speaking to the church here and not one command to keep the law. He did focus on works like love, faith and patient endurance but Christians will always produce the works or fruit of the Spirit.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 11:06 PM
No, you said no one goes to hell cause Jesus died for all of them. False theology

You refuse to acknowledge the objective and subjective aspects of the gospel. Calvinists, Lutherans and Arminians all acknowledge that the atonement is separate and distinct from the individual experience of being saved.

meshak
April 11th, 2016, 11:34 PM
At least I can admit that I'm a Gentile.

Big deal. Your dismissal of Jesus' messages proves you are not Jesus' follower.

you spread false gospel.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 11:35 PM
Big deal. Your dismissal of Jesus' messages proves you are not Jesus' follower.

you spread false gospel.

You're an ignorant legalist with uncircumcised ears.

meshak
April 11th, 2016, 11:39 PM
You're an ignorant legalist with uncircumcised ears.

false gospel spreader is nothing to be proud of.

You are sad case.

You don't appreciate Jesus' word.

Your posts don't worth reading and replying.

good day.

Epoisses
April 11th, 2016, 11:43 PM
false gospel spreader is nothing to be proud of.

You are sad case.

You don't appreciate Jesus' word.

Your posts don't worth reading and replying.

good day.

I do appreciate Jesus' words very much like when he said love was the new and greatest commandment. I don't 'do' love, I receive it from the Holy Spirit. Or when he said that faith was a requirement for every miracle that he performed to Jew and Gentile alike. I don't 'do' faith either.

TulipBee
April 12th, 2016, 05:23 AM
You refuse to acknowledge the objective and subjective aspects of the gospel. Calvinists, Lutherans and Arminians all acknowledge that the atonement is separate and distinct from the individual experience of being saved.
Let's all agree that God does the saving, not men but I don't think that is possible with you. Maybe you don't have the light on to see that

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 07:41 AM
Let's all agree that God does the saving, not men but I don't think that is possible with you. Maybe you don't have the light on to see that

God did the saving on the cross and he does the saving in my individual life. All the glory goes to God so I can't take any credit.

TulipBee
April 12th, 2016, 08:04 AM
Go did the saving on the cross and he does the saving in my individual life. All the glory goes to God so I can't take any credit.
Elects given to Jesus and he died for his sheep only. You add goats as well

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 09:48 AM
Elects given to Jesus and he died for his sheep only. You add goats as well

Says you. Oh and by the way you're not one of God's elect.

Crucible
April 12th, 2016, 10:32 AM
Churches that grow heretical or uphold sin are usually those who never kept a constitution or canon of by-laws. These are the contemporary churches who don't believe they have to follow traditional workings because 'the Spirit'.

Well, you see how that turns out :chuckle:

meshak
April 12th, 2016, 12:03 PM
Churches that grow heretical or uphold sin are usually those who never kept a constitution or canon of by-laws.

Are you talking about your denomination?

Crucible
April 12th, 2016, 01:06 PM
Are you talking about your denomination?

My church prints out, annually, a constitution and canon which is voted upon, and all which wins with a 2/3 vote by the leading body.

This is to ensure that the views and theology of the church remain intact, which is why my church has remained traditional and without error due to change.

Without this, church ideology virtually flops, and it's something that many contemporary churches are guilty of.

TulipBee
April 12th, 2016, 01:14 PM
Says you. Oh and by the way you're not one of God's elect.
Oh! Look ! Everybody !
We have a judge here on TOL

TulipBee
April 12th, 2016, 01:18 PM
Are you talking about your denomination?
He is saying if you don't keep the traditions and obey the Roman Catholic books, you're screwed.
The extra books in the 73 books that's not in the 66 books are not inspired by God. He also means you'll have to obey the extra uninspired books as well. That how the RCC turned into a denomination instead of the universal Catholic Church

TulipBee
April 12th, 2016, 01:19 PM
My church prints out, annually, a constitution and canon which is voted upon, and all which wins with a 2/3 vote by the leading body.

This is to ensure that the views and theology of the church remain intact, which is why my church has remained traditional and without error due to change.

Without this, church ideology virtually flops, and it's something that many contemporary churches are guilty of.
Extra uninspired books are with error

Nanja
April 12th, 2016, 02:45 PM
Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


Because God hates the workers of iniquity, so should His People Mat. 1:21; they are wrong to love those who hate God:


2 Chron. 19:2
And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.


Also, God's People are not to love and pray for false teachers, but pray that they go to hell:


As Paul stated:

Gal. 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


accursed / anathema: a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, and if an animal, to be slain; therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction

a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G331&t=KJV


Does God love them that make up that world Mat. 25:41?


These scriptures prove that God does not love all men in the world without exception, nor did Christ bear their iniquity that they would be saved! For God Loves only those whose iniquity Christ bore on their behalf Is. 53:6, His Sheep John 10:14-15 He laid down His Life for!


Rom. 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Eph. 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

~~~~~

Crucible
April 12th, 2016, 04:03 PM
Extra uninspired books are with error

There's only one Bible with extra books at my church, and it's a big, gilded one front and center. They are not instituted into the main canon, but are in the back for referral purposes.

This is something you will see in many Lutheran churches, although mine is Reformed, as it was Martin Luther's idea in the first place to separate the books.

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 11:16 PM
Oh! Look ! Everybody !
We have a judge here on TOL

You're a reprobate too. Unbeliever!

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 11:19 PM
There's only one Bible with extra books at my church, and it's a big, gilded one front and center. They are not instituted into the main canon, but are in the back for referral purposes.

This is something you will see in many Lutheran churches, although mine is Reformed, as it was Martin Luther's idea in the first place to separate the books.

Does your church have contemporary music along with your big bible? BORING!!!

Gurucam
April 13th, 2016, 05:25 AM
God's love is unconditional. God loves us because he is love. Human love is conditional which is what you have.

Gurucam
April 13th, 2016, 05:26 AM
Wow, what a convoluted title.
Clearly you are trying to use the word 'convoluted' .
The title is not convoluted. Your ideas are convoluted.

Gurucam
April 13th, 2016, 05:35 AM
Episode,
God's Love is His Grace.

God's love is not unconditional. God does not love everyone
God loves only those who does his will.
If one does not discern the real time will of the living God and not do that one is not loved by God.
And only a few do that, I.e. the chosen few.
'Many are called and few chosen.'

The path to coming under god's grace/love is clearly laid out in the KJV N.T. It is not a done deal.

Straight is the gate and narrow the way and few there be that find it.

Gurucam
April 13th, 2016, 06:12 AM
Jesus's entire ministry was under the old covenant and predominantly to the children of Israel. After the cross a much different message went out. Even in the council of Christ to the seven churches there is not one mention of any law-keeping. A whole lot about love, faith and patience but no law.
The Lord Jesus had two ministries.

One is for the dead and the other is for those who follow Him.

1. One ministry is under the old covernant. This is for hardened Jews and harden others who refuse to seek the path through their individual spirit and Jesus' Spirit. This commission is for the dead. This one was committed onto Peter. Only this commission was committed onto Peter.

2. The other is through the new covernant. This is totally without the old covernant and through only pne's own spirit, the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This commission is for those who follow Jedus. This commission was committed onto only Paul. Peter was not given any part of this commission.

These paths are not at at all related.

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 07:57 AM
You're a reprobate too. Unbeliever!
That's up to God, not you, nor men.
I don't care about me. I just care about Jesus.
It's not all about YOU, it's all about Jesus.
You have be a lot of MEism and you tell God you deserve better than us.

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 07:59 AM
Does your church have contemporary music along with your big bible? BORING!!!
You're into entertainment, not worship.
Big difference !

Epoisses
April 13th, 2016, 08:18 AM
Episode,
God's Love is His Grace.

God's love is not unconditional. God does not love everyone
God loves only those who does his will.

God loves all people because he created all people and died for all people.

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matt. 5:45

Epoisses
April 13th, 2016, 08:19 AM
That's up to God, not you, nor men.
I don't care about me. I just care about Jesus.
It's not all about YOU, it's all about Jesus.
You have be a lot of MEism and you tell God you deserve better than us.

You care about Calvinism and reject Jesus and the bible.

Epoisses
April 13th, 2016, 08:20 AM
You're into entertainment, not worship.
Big difference !

You're into man-made heresy and lies and hopelessly deceived.

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 09:25 AM
You care about Calvinism and reject Jesus and the bible.
Calvinism is the gospel -Spurgeon

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 09:26 AM
You're into man-made heresy and lies and hopelessly deceived.
Let the Bible be the Bible

Epoisses
April 13th, 2016, 09:38 AM
Calvinism is the gospel -Spurgeon

Calvinism is the false gospel of Greek philosophy and intellectual idiocracy.

patrick jane
April 13th, 2016, 09:52 AM
Let the Bible be the Bible
Some folks are pre-destined for hell, are you one ?

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 10:24 AM
Some folks are pre-destined for hell, are you one ?
You ought to return back to the bible

TulipBee
April 13th, 2016, 10:26 AM
Calvinism is the false gospel of Greek philosophy and intellectual idiocracy.
It's backed and loaded with bible quotes for others to read for themselves. You just want to tell God what you want out of him instead of letting him do what he does best according to his own pleasures not yours

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 10:38 AM
Calvinism is the false gospel of Greek philosophy and intellectual idiocracy.

I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it :rolleyes:

meshak
April 13th, 2016, 01:00 PM
Clearly you are trying to use the word 'convoluted' .
The title is not convoluted. Your ideas are convoluted.

You cannot find anything wrong with my posts except this one in this thread.

Your judgment needs adjustment.

Choleric
April 13th, 2016, 01:12 PM
I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it :rolleyes:

Who said we were smarter than those men? We just are smart enough to believe what God said and not twist it to say what we think God meant to say.

We are, in that sense, much more wise than those men.

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 01:35 PM
Who said we were smarter than those men? We just are smart enough to believe what God said and not twist it to say what we think God meant to say.

We are, in that sense, much more wise than those men.

:rotfl:

You'd be Catholic, praising Mary right now saying. That's your 'wise' for you :rolleyes:

Choleric
April 13th, 2016, 03:25 PM
:rotfl:

You'd be Catholic, praising Mary right now saying. That's your 'wise' for you :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, that was incoherent. Can you clarify?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 03:53 PM
I'm sorry, that was incoherent. Can you clarify?

The Reformers are the reason you are not Catholic right now. They are the ones who perpetuated the idea of the public having Bibles :doh:

You are not wiser, you are a ~product~ :rolleyes:

Choleric
April 13th, 2016, 04:09 PM
The Reformers are the reason you are not Catholic right now. They are the ones who perpetuated the idea of the public having Bibles :doh:

You are not wiser, you are a ~product~ :rolleyes:

I think you are conflating issues. Nobody said we aren't thankful for the reformers, we just don't think they went far enough from Rome.

And now that we have an English bible, it is our duty and responsibility to read and understand the scriptures for ourselves, as that is how we will stand before God, by ourselves. While I may read and learn from Luther and Calvin, I also reject out of hand any "interpretation" that says "all" isn't all or that "whosoever" doesn't mean anybody and that "whole world" doesn't mean the people in it.

Calvins TULIP is a dead flower that is rifled with error. I appreciate men like Spurgeon and can even enjoy listening to some moder calvinists preach, but I just think calvinism, particularly the "L" is a satanic heresy that was born out of "hath God said".

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 04:22 PM
I think you are conflating issues. Nobody said we aren't thankful for the reformers, we just don't think they went far enough from Rome.

And now that we have an English bible, it is our duty and responsibility to read and understand the scriptures for ourselves, as that is how we will stand before God, by ourselves. While I may read and learn from Luther and Calvin, I also reject out of hand any "interpretation" that says "all" isn't all or that "whosoever" doesn't mean anybody and that "whole world" doesn't mean the people in it.

Calvins TULIP is a dead flower that is rifled with error. I appreciate men like Spurgeon and can even enjoy listening to some moder calvinists preach, but I just think calvinism, particularly the "L" is a satanic heresy that was born out of "hath God said".

Reformed doctrine is called so because it is refined and improved. It is the reverting back from the centuries of heresy that laid within Christianity- the Early Christians were Calvinistic. The biblical authors were Calvinistic.

Your theology hasn't done anything but lace heresy all through Christianity, because you all are not taking facts into consideration while interpreting- God is immutable and omniscient- therefore you are simply wrong.

Choleric
April 13th, 2016, 04:37 PM
Reformed doctrine is called so because it is refined and improved. It is the reverting back from the centuries of heresy that laid within Christianity- the Early Christians were Calvinistic. The biblical authors were Calvinistic.

That is patently false. Calvinism is a theological invention of a man called calvin, perhaps you've heard of him. The biblical authors preached and exhorted others to believe. paul said, "we beseech you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to GOd." That is not calvinistic nor are several dozen other such passages.


Your theology hasn't done anything but lace heresy all through Christianity, because you all are not taking facts into consideration while interpreting- God is immutable and omniscient- therefore you are simply wrong.

Biblical Christianity has been around since Pentecost. That is why we are not "protestants". We predate and ran alongside the heresies of Rome and have stepped over calvinism and any other heretical systematic theology that has wandered into the "hath God said" market.

Yours is indeed refined, but it is still a lie, conceived by satan. He has you thinking you are exalting God's sovereignty and has you believing that is more important than believing God is just. While the devil has you exalting God with one hand, you are putting a stumbling block at the feet of the lost and making the modern church lazy.

We bible believers just believe what we read, as a child, and take GOd at His word. You are playing in the garden with satan who has you thinking "hath God said whosoever?" "Hath God said believe?" "Hath God said all?"

patrick jane
April 13th, 2016, 05:55 PM
We bible believers just believe what we read, as a child, and take God at His word. You are playing in the garden with satan who has you thinking "hath God said whosoever?" "Hath God said believe?" "Hath God said all?"


2 Timothy 3:15 KJV -

Epoisses
April 14th, 2016, 11:22 PM
I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it :rolleyes:

Let's get into the meat then, pick a point and let's go. I love to chew up Calvinists and spit them out.

Epoisses
April 14th, 2016, 11:24 PM
Reformed doctrine is called so because it is refined and improved. It is the reverting back from the centuries of heresy that laid within Christianity- the Early Christians were Calvinistic. The biblical authors were Calvinistic.

Your theology hasn't done anything but lace heresy all through Christianity, because you all are not taking facts into consideration while interpreting- God is immutable and omniscient- therefore you are simply wrong.

Calvinism makes God the author of sin. That's not an improvement it's heresy.

Aletheiophile
April 14th, 2016, 11:51 PM
What if it's not about who's on the ship (Calvinism) or convincing people to get on the ship (Arminianism) but the ship itself? Maybe there's a larger scope of time and timelessness that is beyond either two-dimension view of God's sovereignty? Some food for thought...

As pertains the OP, it's based on the presupposition of a modern idea of love. Before we can even answer the question, love has to be defined.

The Greek word for Christian love Agape (mind you, not original to the Greek but borrowed from Hebrew, because it is not a worldly fleshly knowledge) means the benevolent directive of the will to do what is best for a person, not necessarily what they desire. The modern English concept of love is unique to this generation, a devolvement into a pathetic, subjective, selfish affectation towards others. It may think that it is demonstrating agape, but the motivations and methods are most certainly according to the diseased condition of the soul, not the Grace of God.

What a person needs is always Christ, always His righteousness, always His holiness. The Law is the very distribution of God's righteousness, whether manifest in the written commandments or upon the heart in the new covenant. Thus the very nature of love cannot break the commandments of God. It is not about the codification of do-don'ts, but about the righteousness manifest in the teaching (Torah) and distribution (Nomos) of God.

TulipBee
April 15th, 2016, 06:42 AM
Some folks are pre-destined for hell, are you one ?
All mankind was sentenced to hell. All is totally depraved. Calvin got that right

Epoisses
April 15th, 2016, 07:05 AM
All mankind was sentenced to hell. All is totally depraved. Calvin got that right

And all mankind is declared righteous 'in Christ'. Every single human being deserves to go to heaven because all their sins have been blotted out by the blood of Christ. Thus there are two possible destinies for every human being. God simply knows our destiny before we were born. Calvin got that wrong.

TulipBee
April 15th, 2016, 09:02 AM
And all mankind is declared righteous 'in Christ'. Every single human being deserves to go to heaven because all their sins have been blotted out by the blood of Christ. Thus there are two possible destinies for every human being. God simply knows our destiny before we were born. Calvin got that wrong.
Calvin is right that God created a hell for a reason.

Gurucam
April 15th, 2016, 04:28 PM
God loves all people because he created all people and died for all people.

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matt. 5:45

You are making up your own thing under the false belief that you are some how saved and delivered automatically.

Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Jesus died only for the few who follow him)

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Jesus did not die for all.

At all events only a few are or will be, saved and chosen. At least a billion are called Christians. Jesus' prophesy is that the very great masses of these are totally misled and lost. They are not chosen. Christ has benefited them nothing. They still esteem the law.

Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

James: 2 KJV N.T.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Jesus did not die for those foolish people (traditional Christians) who use the law of sin and death in the lest way. You are corrupting the word of God.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

People who use the law of sin and death in the least way are the dead. They are a debtor to uphold all the laws perfectly. Those who esteem and/or use the law in the least have denied and defy 'Christ Jesus'. Jesus did not die for them. They are the dead who are burying their dead. Jesus did not die for 'the dead who bury their dead'. Jesus died for those who choose to follow him:

Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Those who promote the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) as a part of Christianity (or a guide for Christians) are false spying brethren. They are false prophets who came in Jesus' name:

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 01:41 AM
Epoisses,

Jesus is always separating sheep people from goat people and he is sending sheep people to heaven and goat people to hell. He did not die for goats.

Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus divides all people into the right side and left side then, He sends those on his left side to hell. He certainly did not die for those hardened people who he sends to hell. And He certainly does not love those people.

Do you actually believe that Jesus died for those on the left side who he told: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels',

It is no done deal. Everyone is not automatically saved and delivered. With respect to salvation and deliverance, the Lord Jesus and God are very picky (selective). So picky they are that: from the billion or so called to be Christians only a few are chosen.

Do you know why, according to the Lord Jesus, only a few are chosen? The very great majority of those called Christians have been misled by false prophets.

Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The billion or so people in traditional Christianity are not the chosen few. They cannot be the few who are chosen. Whether wittingly or not, these billion or so people have gone about their own righteousness and abandon God's righteousness.

Romans 10 King James Version (KJV)
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

They are like you. They erroneously believe that salvation and deliverance is a done deal. This is in total denial of the Lord Jesus Who clearly confirmed that, only those who do will of God enters God's heaven.

Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

You guys are the dead who are burying each other with your false false beliefs and false slogans.

Fact is you have to do things in order to be saved and delivered. It is no done deal. While you live on earth, you have to actually discern and actually do the real time will of the living God. God has a precise and individual will for you. You have to discern this will within your own heart or spirit. Then you must do this will in order to be saved and delivered:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

If you do not discern the will of God within your own heart and do not do these specific things, you are dead in your waters (you will be among the dead who are burying their dead). You are not and will not be chosen:

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 02:55 AM
Epoisses,

Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven equals works.

Doing the will of God is some works which you must do to enter God's kingdom of heaven. You have better get cracking (and do that works) if you wish to escape that bad and dark place where death prevails. Those who tell you different are false brethren, spies and false prophets who came in Jesus' name.

Therefore you better find out quickly how to get on the right side and try to get there quickly. Time is very limited. Fact is straight is the gate and narrow the way to life and few (not many and not all) there be that find it. It is not at all a done deal, where all are saved and delivered. Far from it.

There are many false prophets who will pretend to be Christians. They will go undetected. They will do any thing to deny you the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

They are spies whose loyalty is to the law of sin and death and not to the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made one free from the law of sin and death. They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus comes with God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin but instead be glorified by God.

These false brethren-spies will not want you to have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes you free from the law of sin and death.

They become spies. They come as leaders, priests, elders, etc. in Christian churches and Christian denominations, so as to return Christians to (or keep them in) bondage and death under the law of sin and death:

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Being spies, they operate within what passes for Christianity everywhere and they are misleading the very great majority of people who seek to be Christians. This is the reality. They are leaders of traditional Christianity. They are not Christians. These leaders are false spying brethren. They are Satan operatives simply masquerading as Christian priests and Christian leaders.

They are preaching the law of sin and death and promoting false slogans in the name of Christianity. They are not preaching that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made one free from the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments).

They are misguiding multitudes of unsuspecting humans, who are simply seeking to be authentic Christians. They are leading these unsuspecting and unfortunate traditional Christians into err and false sense of security, simply to bring them into servitude to Satan. Traditional Christians are not Christians. They are simply called to be Christians. However they are totally misled by false prophets, from within their own churches.

Some of these false and spy prophets may be unwitting. They are certainly 'the dead'. And at all events they are all very dangerous. Please beware.

Your statement is totally erroneous. It comes from false spying prophets. Your statement is simply, attempted flattery and bribery of Jesus. It can and would count for nothing. You are parroting 'lord lord you are god and you died for all and all are saved and delivered'. Instead, you should be actively doing the real time will of the living God.

Your statement is a total corruption of the KJV N.T. It is simply a false platitude to Jesus. According to the Lord Jesus, if you want to enter God's kingdom of heaven, that is exactly what you must not do. Only actually doing the real time will of the living God can deliver you into God's kingdom of heaven.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 02:59 AM
Epoisses,

At any event your statement: 'God loves all people because he created all people and died for all people' is ludicrous. God never died.

Epoisses, your priest/pastor seems to be a Satan operative. Your priest/pastor seem to be misguiding you so that you err and serve the Satanic class and eventually end up with Satan in the under world. Your priest/pastor seems to be recruiting for Satan.

Drop your priest/pastor. He or she is 'killething' you.

The very least that you can do is to read the verses before the ones which mention the left side and right side division which the Lord makes. Re. Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.. There, in plain language, you will find out about works that you must do in order to be on the right or chosen side, of the Lord Jesus.

The revelation tell a story of those who sat on their behind. They lost everything. Jesus instructed, 'take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents'. They were on the left side and were dispatched to hell.

On the other hand, those who did the required works were praised and gained entry into God's kingdom of heaven.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 03:15 AM
As pertains the OP, it's based on the presupposition of a modern idea of love. Before we can even answer the question, love has to be defined.


To define love is to literally define God.

1 John 4 King James Version (KJV)
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Love is the only definition of God in the KJV N.T.

It is not a lettered/intellectual/definition thing. It is not a going back to a Greek/English dictionary thing. It is an experiential thing. God/Love is a Spirit.

John: 4 King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Have you ever actually loved? if yes, then you know God. Then you have experienced the essential fabric of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Then you would know why it is not possible to love and also esteem and uphold the law of sin and death. Then you will know why one of these had to go. Then you would know why:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Acts: 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

If you still discern the slightest 'wisdom' in the law of sin and death, know for sure that you have never loved and you do not know God. At best you simply know about Love/God. You have not actually experienced Love/God. However, most probably you mistaken some other thing to be Love/God.

Then you still fear and cannot and do not love freely and unconditionally. In any motivation, the presence of fear is the absence of Love/God.

1 John: 8 KJV N.T.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

The ten commandments and Love/God are not compatible. For this reason the ten commandments are done away with for those in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 06:09 AM
What a person needs is always Christ, always His righteousness, always His holiness. The Law is the very distribution of God's righteousness, whether manifest in the written commandments or upon the heart in the new covenant. Thus the very nature of love cannot break the commandments of God. It is not about the codification of do-don'ts, but about the righteousness manifest in the teaching (Torah) and distribution (Nomos) of God.

What indeed is the righteousness of Christ? The answer must lie in:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Acts: 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Clearly the righteousness of Christ is God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the ten commandments and not get sin but instead be glorified by God, when one is in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 07:49 AM
All mankind was sentenced to hell. All is totally depraved. Calvin got that right

Your statement, 'All is totally depraved' is not correct. It is a false statement. It seems geared to make you and others like you who are on the left side, feel good. Jesus says to those on the left side, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

It is totally different for those on the right side:

Fact is those on the right side do not go to hell. Jesus says to those on the right side, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Admittedly those on the right side are only a few (i.e. the chosen few):

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

However, this definitely means that not everyone goes to hell. Indeed you are corrupting truth/scriptures. Not everyone goes to hell. Seems that only the very great majority of the billion or so people who are called Christians goes to hell.

Jesus' prophesy is that (from the billion called to Christianity), only a few make it (only a few are chosen). And indeed, a few is a few and a billion is a billion. A billion cannot be a few.

We are all in this together. However we will not all end in the same state or same place.

Get your fact straight, according to clear KJV N.T. revelations. Indeed speak your doom only for yourself and your own kind. Give peace a chance.

Epoisses
April 16th, 2016, 08:15 AM
You are making up your own thing under the false belief that you are some how saved and delivered automatically.

Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Jesus died only for the few who follow him)

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Jesus did not die for all.

At all events only a few are or will be, saved and chosen. At least a billion are called Christians. Jesus' prophesy is that the very great masses of these are totally misled and lost. They are not chosen. Christ has benefited them nothing. They still esteem the law.

Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

James: 2 KJV N.T.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Jesus did not die for those foolish people (traditional Christians) who use the law of sin and death in the lest way. You are corrupting the word of God.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

People who use the law of sin and death in the least way are the dead. They are a debtor to uphold all the laws perfectly. Those who esteem and/or use the law in the least have denied and defy 'Christ Jesus'. Jesus did not die for them. They are the dead who are burying their dead. Jesus did not die for 'the dead who bury their dead'. Jesus died for those who choose to follow him:

Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Those who promote the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) as a part of Christianity (or a guide for Christians) are false spying brethren. They are false prophets who came in Jesus' name:

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:



Jesus is the savior of the world John 3:17, John 4:42, 1John 4:14, 1Tim. 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1Tim. 4:10

If God is the savior of all men AND especially of those who believe then that's EVERYBODY!!

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 08:17 AM
Calvin is right that God created a hell for a reason.

God did not create a hell. Satan and his followers created and sustain many hells in God's creation.

God and His creation is neutral. They both allows each person to create and sustain his or her own abode (in God's creation) and live in it . . . whether heaven or hell.

The Lord Jesus simply and eventually send those who like the law of sin, death and hell to hell, with Satan within the depths of earth. It is inevitable. Those who esteem the law of sin and death in the slightest way ends in hell. No one who esteems the law of sin and death in the slightest way makes it.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

If you discern the slightest wisdom in the law of sin and death you are under the law of sin and death. You are entangled with the law of sin and death. And it is confirmed that those who esteem the law of sin (even in the slightest way), dies spiritually and ends in hell.

Inevitably and invariably, people simply go to the dimension (parallel earth) of their entanglement. It is totally their creation and their choosing. This is how God's law works.

Fact is those who choose to accurately and actually 'follow the Lord Jesus' create and sustain God's kingdom of heaven, here on earth and elsewhere. They never go to hell.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 08:53 AM
Traditional Christians boldly esteem and promote the law of sin and death, as Christianity.

Fact is the law is a curse. All who esteem and/or use the law (even in the slightest way) fall short of the glory of God. They all end in and live in hell on earth in their current life and eventually inside the earth with Satan when they die.

The law is the ten commandments. It is also called Moses' law. It is the law of sin and death. The law is called the law of sin and death because it killeth. It does not give life eternal.

Esteeming and promoting the law of sin is certain spiritual dead and delivery to hell. The Lord Jesus did away with the law for those who follow Him. Those (and only those) who follow Jesus are Christians.

Esteeming the law of sin and death is not Christian. It is not part of Christianity.

1. The law of sin and death seems to be part of the Jewish tradition.

2. The law of sin and death may be part of another tradition. That is a tradition that was given by the Lord Jesus for 'the dead'. 'The dead' are those who lack the necessary spirit actualization/awareness to be Christians.

They do not have 'the eyes to see', 'the ears to hear' and the hearts to understand'. Their hearts or spirits are waxed gross. They cannot be Christians. They are not even 'called' to be Christians, far less to be 'chosen'. They can be under the law of sin and death. The law of sin and death is the gospel of circumcision. The gospel of circumcision was rendered onto Peter and anchors his church. Peter and his church are for Catholics who are not Christians.

3. On the other hand, the law of sin and death is not for Christians. The law of sin and death is not even for those called to be Christians (and not yet chosen). The law of sin and death is not in any way a part of Christianity.

The Christian Church is anchored on the gospel of uncircumcision. This is righteousness of God that is without the law of sin and death.

Romans 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

The gospel of uncircumcision was rendered onto to only Paul. This and only this is the Christian commission. It is the 'not seen' church of the chosen few. This is not the church of the billion strong traditional Christians.

The churches of the billion strong traditional Christians are false, fake or corrupt churches, because they are passed off as a Christian churches. They are not Christian churches. They are church under the gospel of circumcision.

Jesus left two commission. One with the law of sin and death under Peter, i.e. under the gospel of circumcision. The other is without the law of sin and death as exemplified by Paul, i.e. under the gospel of uncircumcision:

Galatians: 2
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Do not let anyone misled you into the false belief that both gospels are the same. They are literally opposite. One is with the law. The other is with God given justification to transgress the law. Christianity is anchored only on the latter.

Christianity is literally the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which made one free from the law of sin and death. This is righteousness of God that is without the law of sin and death. This is under the gospel of uncircumcision.

Under the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus one has God given freedom, liberty and justification to ignor and/or transgress (break) the law of sin and death. Under this system one gets no sin but instead is glorified by God . . . let no one ever fool you again. This is truth in the fullness of time.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Those who esteem and/or promote the law of sin and death as Christianity are simply corrupt, Satanic and/or false prophets who came in Jesus name. They are also false brethren as mentioned in:

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Please beware of these false brethren.

Please recognize and treat, with great caution, those who promote the law of sin and death as Christianity. They are corrupt, Satanic, false spying brethren and/or false prophets who came in Jesus name. They have come to misled you and deny you salvation, deliverance and eternal life. They are here to fool you and deny you Christianity. They are here to deliver you to hell with Satan. They are literally here to steel your soul. They are recruiters for Satan.

Indeed Satan operatives are every where masquerading as authentic Christians. They are wolves in sheep clothing. They are spies who come to destroy Christians.

Christians have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death. Christians are not under the law. These false spying brethren/Satan operatives come among Christian to seek to return Christians to bondage under the law of sin and death. They want to spiritually killeth you and return you to Satan.

TulipBee
April 16th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Your statement, 'All is totally depraved' is not correct. It is a false statement. It seems geared to make you and others like you who are on the left side, feel good. Jesus says to those on the left side, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

It is totally different for those on the right side:

Fact is those on the right side do not go to hell. Jesus says to those on the right side, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Admittedly those on the right side are only a few (i.e. the chosen few):

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

However, this definitely means that not everyone goes to hell. Indeed you are corrupting truth/scriptures. Not everyone goes to hell. Seems that only the very great majority of the billion or so people who are called Christians goes to hell.

Jesus' prophesy is that (from the billion called to Christianity), only a few make it (only a few are chosen). And indeed, a few is a few and a billion is a billion. A billion cannot be a few.

We are all in this together. However we will not all end in the same state or same place.

Get your fact straight, according to clear KJV N.T. revelations. Indeed speak your doom only for yourself and your own kind. Give peace a chance.
It's called sinner

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 12:57 PM
You cannot find anything wrong with my posts except this one in this thread.

Your judgment needs adjustment.

I addressed your first post, first.

In it you misused the the word 'convoluted'. You said the following is convoluted:

The Christian life is about denying scriptures so as to obey Love, unconditionally.

In what way is the above convoluted?

Seems that you simply fancy the word, 'convoluted' and used it arbitrarily in your post.

Aletheiophile
April 16th, 2016, 01:55 PM
What indeed is the righteousness of Christ? The answer must lie in:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Acts: 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Clearly the righteousness of Christ is God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the ten commandments and not get sin but instead be glorified by God, when one is in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Wow... If that's how you understand love and righteousness, without even caring to address their lexical etymologies, then there's no reason to further this discussion. Context and concept cannot be the soul source of content.

meshak
April 16th, 2016, 02:16 PM
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The Christian life is about denying scriptures so as to obey Love, unconditionally.

Ok, I reread your title.

So you actually believe you have to deny the scriptures in order to obey love unconditionally.

It is absolutely convoluted.

You are misusing the scripture to push your theory.

I know your way and I don't want to get involved in debating with you. It is just waste of time.

good day.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 03:45 PM
Ok, I reread your title.

So you actually believe you have to deny the scriptures in order to obey love unconditionally.


That is what the title clearly stated.

Therefore nothing is convoluted about the title.

Thank you.

And good day.

Gurucam
April 16th, 2016, 03:53 PM
Wow... If that's how you understand love and righteousness, without even caring to address their lexical etymologies, then there's no reason to further this discussion. Context and concept cannot be the soul source of content.

All truth comes only from a direct connection between one's own spirit and the Spirit of Truth. Truth is not available in any physically spoken or physically written source. Truth cannot be and is never, revealed through any physical media or in any physical media.

John: 16 KJV N.T.
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The above confirms that the Spirit of Truth brings All Truth. And this Spirit became available (to deliver All Truth) only after the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man Jesus was crucified and rose to heaven, clad only in His Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God body.

Put away your books and seek the Spirit of Truth through your own heart or spirit. That is the only way to get or to know Truth.

No Truth can be or was delivered in physical spoken or physically written words.

Written sources, like scriptures, etc. are letters which killeth. Only the Spirit giveth life:

2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

It is pointless to choose the dead path. Instead choose the path which giveth life ever-lasting.

A Bachelors or Doctorate in theology is simply a man made 'lettered' certification which the dead obtains so as to bury their dead counterparts. The letter killeth. 'Lettered people and all other people who use letters are simply 'spiritually dead' people who are certified to further spiritually bury their (already spiritually dead) counterparts.

Matthew 8 King James Version (KJV)
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

True theologians are qualified, not at all through 'letters' but through a relevant gift of the Spirit. This is anchored on following Jesus. Following Jesus is about being in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death. This is about getting All Truth live and direct, in real time, all the time, from the Spirit of Truth Who is the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Lord Jesus. Since 2000 odd years ago this is (also) the only way to know Jesus and to be known to Jesus.

The physical, 'seen' son of man Jesus was temporal. He has long gone. Now (i.e. since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus. This is the Spirit of Truth.

2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now (since 200o odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

John: 16 KJV N.T.
13 . . . The Spirit of Truth brings All Truth . . .

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is not at all about discerning and using scriptures (which are letters which killeth). Also the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is not at all about 'caring to address lexical etymologies'. Those are 'letter' things. They are about being 'killeth'.

The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is totally about 'life eternal' and being Christian. This is totally about the Spirit of Truth Who bring All Truth and giveth life, eternal. (Wake up to truth my friend)

The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is totally about searching your own heart or spirit to know what the Spirit of Truth has in mind for you to know, pray for, say and do, in real time, all the time . . . and praying for, saying and doing just that in real time, all the time . . . even if you have to transgress the law of sin and death.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (of Truth/Spirit of Jesus), because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 . . . and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is (God given) liberty (to transgress the law of sin and death).

1 Corinthians: 2 KJV N.T.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All Truth comes from the Spirit of Truth and this must be spiritually discerned. One must search his or her own heart or spirit to know things from the Spirit of Truth, who brings All Truth. This is not about searching the written scriptures or 'caring to address lexical etymologies'. Those latter things are letter approaches which killeth.

Searching the written scriptures or 'caring to address lexical etymologies' are the tools of 'the dead who bury their dead'. Those who follow Jesus accept that now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit of Truth Who bring All Truth. Therefore those who follow Jesus search their own hearts to know All Truth directly from the Spirit of Truth.

It seems that this is all new for you. It seems that you have been using the dead/letter path all your life, so far. That is not the Christian path. It never was the Christian path. That is the path through which 'the dead bury their dead'. You were misled by false prophets who came in Jesus name.

The time to wake up to truth is at hand. Do not remain lost in corruption and foolishness.

Ask any specific question related to this post or any other of my posts and I will provide many more literal revelations from the KJV N.T. which totally support them.