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Robert Pate
April 9th, 2016, 09:19 AM
"Not everyone that says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of heaven" Matthew 7:21.

One of Satan's greatest works is to lead people into believing that they are Christians when they are not. Instead of trusting in the work and the person of Christ, they are trusting in who they are and in what they have become, which is themselves.

"Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, didn't we...? Matthew 7:21.

Didn't we believe John Calvin?

Didn't we join the Catholic church?

Didn't we get baptized?

Didn't we go to church every Sunday?

Didn't we do many wonderful works?

Didn't we keep the commandments?

Didn't we? didn't we? didn't we?

"And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me you that work iniquity". Matthew 7:23.

Jesus never knew them because they never knew Jesus. They thought that it was all about them and their Christian life, works and piety. Christianity is not about us, who are the sinners, Christianity is about Jesus Christ, His life, His death, His resurrection, His position at the right hand of God. Christianity is about how Jesus has justified the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

What is our position in all of this? We are the sinners that Jesus came into the world to save. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us" Titus 3:5. We are the benefactors of the Gospel, not the instigators of the Gospel. Our part is to believe and to receive all that Jesus has done to save us. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation, but to believe it and receive it, John 1:12.

In the judgment we should be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't YOU do all that YOU could do to save me? And the answer will be, "Welcome in my good and faithful servant" Matthew 25:21.

beloved57
April 9th, 2016, 11:50 AM
Like your self, you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, so discounting salvation by what Christ did.

Robert Pate
April 9th, 2016, 04:40 PM
Like your self, you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, so discounting salvation by what Christ did.

You will most certainly be in the Lord, Lord, didn't we group.

You seem to believe that John Calvin is going to save you.

patrick jane
April 9th, 2016, 04:47 PM
Like your self, you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, so discounting salvation by what Christ did.
Why do you keep lying ? He does not teach works but grace. I know you have nothing else to say but c'mon, it's really old

beloved57
April 9th, 2016, 07:19 PM
You will most certainly be in the Lord, Lord, didn't we group.

You seem to believe that John Calvin is going to save you.

You as all others like you who teach salvation by works deny Christ !

beloved57
April 9th, 2016, 07:20 PM
Why do you keep lying ? He does not teach works but grace. I know you have nothing else to say but c'mon, it's really old

he does teach salvation by works, and you defending him makes you just as guilty !

Bradley D
April 9th, 2016, 10:37 PM
How can you interpret Robert's reference as works. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us" Titus 3:5.

Robert Pate
April 10th, 2016, 07:57 AM
How can you interpret Robert's reference as works. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us" Titus 3:5.

One of the works of the devil is to accuse Christians of sin.

He has to do the work of his father, so he accuses me of teaching salvation by works.

popsthebuilder
April 11th, 2016, 08:43 PM
Like your self, you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, so discounting salvation by what Christ did.
Nonsense; it is stated clearly and repeatedly that works are a product of Faith. And not of our will but the will of GOD that has been imparted unto our hearts through Christ.

Peace

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 12:21 AM
Nonsense; it is stated clearly and repeatedly that works are a product of Faith. And not of our will but the will of GOD that has been imparted unto our hearts through Christ.

Peace

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You teach salvation by works also.

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 12:23 AM
One of the works of the devil is to accuse Christians of sin.

He has to do the work of his father, so he accuses me of teaching salvation by works.
Teaching salvation by works like you do is a work of the devil!

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Grosnick Marowbe
April 12th, 2016, 12:23 AM
You teach salvation by works also.

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You're a "MESS."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 12th, 2016, 12:24 AM
Teaching salvation by works like you do is a work of the devil!

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Yeah, sure. You sure can hand out the baloney by the boatload can't ya?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 12th, 2016, 12:26 AM
One of the works of the devil is to accuse Christians of sin.

He has to do the work of his father, so he accuses me of teaching salvation by works.

He's just brainwashed.

popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 04:46 AM
You teach salvation by works also.

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Scripture teaches that false faith, or proclaimed faith with ones mouth that isn't backed by supporting action or works as a result is not real Faith.

What does it say about the man who has Faith and the man who has works from Faith? What does it say Faith without works is?

I humbly suggest you study your little book, and not follow the care fee doctrine of man.

Peace

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 06:37 AM
Scripture teaches that false faith, or proclaimed faith with ones mouth that isn't backed by supporting action or works as a result is not real Faith.

What does it say about the man who has Faith and the man who has works from Faith? What does it say Faith without works is?

I humbly suggest you study your little book, and not follow the care fee doctrine of man.

Peace

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Scripture teaches salvation by works is a false doctrine.

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Nanja
April 12th, 2016, 06:47 AM
Scripture teaches that false faith, or proclaimed faith with ones mouth that isn't backed by supporting action or works as a result is not real Faith.

What does it say about the man who has Faith and the man who has works from Faith? What does it say Faith without works is?

I humbly suggest you study your little book, and not follow the care fee doctrine of man.




Peace

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One's own faith, exercised by doing works of the flesh, i.e. believing, repenting, accepting, obeying his commands, etc., cannot please God.


The Faith that Saves is not one's own faith, but the Faith of Jesus Christ which is a Fruit and Gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22 given in New Birth.


Only one a person is Born Again / Born of the Spirit can the works he does please God.


Rom. 8:7-9
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


So when one boasts of their own good works they have done in a futile effort to earn their own salvation, that's false religion, exalting the flesh; nothing but filthy rags in God's sight Is. 64:6!


Gal. 2 :16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
April 12th, 2016, 08:00 AM
One's own faith, exercised by doing works of the flesh, i.e. believing, repenting, accepting, obeying his commands, etc., cannot please God.


The Faith that Saves is not one's own faith, but the Faith of Jesus Christ which is a Fruit and Gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22 given in New Birth.


Only one a person is Born Again / Born of the Spirit can the works he does please God.


Rom. 8:7-9
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


So when one boasts of their own good works they have done in a futile effort to earn their own salvation, that's false religion, exalting the flesh; nothing but filthy rags in God's sight Is. 64:6!


Gal. 2 :16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

~~~~~

The Holy Spirit is only given to those who hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Becoming a Calvinist is something that you do. It is a work of the law. No one receives the Holy Spirit by what they do.

Nanja
April 12th, 2016, 08:26 AM
The Holy Spirit is only given to those who hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.





The Holy Spirit is given in New Birth to all the Elect which were given according to God's Purpose and Grace before the world began:


2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Each member of Christ's Body, The Church Eph. 5:25, Chosen in Union with Him before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4, shall receive New Birth passively at some point in their life:



Being Born Again is nothing less than a Miracle of God!


~~~~~

Robert Pate
April 12th, 2016, 09:10 AM
The Holy Spirit is given in New Birth to all the Elect which were given according to God's Purpose and Grace before the world began:


2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Each member of Christ's Body, The Church Eph. 5:25, Chosen in Union with Him before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4, shall receive New Birth passively at some point in their life:



Being Born Again is nothing less than a Miracle of God!


~~~~~

No one is born again that does not hear and believe the Gospel.

Listen to what Peter says to you, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, by the word of God (Which is the Gospel) which lives and abides for ever" 1 Peter 1:23.

You have not been born again because you reject the Gospel as your means of salvation.

Predi
April 12th, 2016, 09:23 AM
Interesting subject. Matthew 7:21 used to trouble me... I thought about myself as a true believer, but so did the people saying, "Didn't we...". And Christian doctrine has so many details... what if I'm missing one that can actually cause me to lose salvation?

After years of struggling I realized this weird fact: common Protestant doctrine teaches "Salvation is apart from works, but you must do one work very carefully - you must believe some things exactly the way we say it - or else - fry forever."

In other words, "There's nothing you can do to be saved, BUT you have to believe."

And how do I know exactly what to believe if the same Bible is interpreted by each denomination in a different way? Why did God make it so confusing?

No, it can't be, why would God confuse us? I started reading the Bible in a little more open way and after some time I realized that - first of all - Matthew 7:21 has nothing to do with us and nothing to do with afterlife, thus - I don't need to worry!

I know close to 100% Christian theologians teach otherwise... who cares? Being kicked out of church for heresy is a small price for peace in mind :-)

popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 09:54 AM
Works of the flesh is not synonymous with Faith, repentance from sin, or abiding by the will of GOD. The intentional confusion of the masses and neutering of the otherwise faithful into GOD is indeed the work of the opposer.

No one is refuting the salvation that Christ made available to all. The issue is people's ability to attempt to make the blood of the Christ in vain through continued sin, proclimation of Faith alone, and acting as if knowing sinners are actually saints.

No one is talking about boasting or doing works for the site of man or profit there from. You are massing things together in an attempt to justify a terribly flawed view.

I humbly ask that you read without bias, or any other preconception or fear or negativity, and with utter honesty on a personal level. Might God's grace forgive us our transgressions and guide us down the path that He would have us take.

Peace

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Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 09:59 AM
No one is refuting the salvation that Christ made available to all. The issue is people's ability to attempt to make the blood of the Christ in vain through continued sin, proclimation of Faith alone, and acting as if knowing sinners are actually saints.

Faith alone is the only acceptable response to the gospel and this does not negate the book of James.

Faith alone in Christ produces the works or fruit of the Spirit.

Faith plus works produces the works of the flesh or carnal obedience.

popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 10:35 AM
Interesting subject. Matthew 7:21 used to trouble me... I thought about myself as a true believer, but so did the people saying, "Didn't we...". And Christian doctrine has so many details... what if I'm missing one that can actually cause me to lose salvation?

After years of struggling I realized this weird fact: common Protestant doctrine teaches "Salvation is apart from works, but you must do one work very carefully - you must believe some things exactly the way we say it - or else - fry forever."

In other words, "There's nothing you can do to be saved, BUT you have to believe."

And how do I know exactly what to believe if the same Bible is interpreted by each denomination in a different way? Why did God make it so confusing?

No, it can't be, why would God confuse us? I started reading the Bible in a little more open way and after some time I realized that - first of all - Matthew 7:21 has nothing to do with us and nothing to do with afterlife, thus - I don't need to worry!

I know close to 100% Christian theologians teach otherwise... who cares? Being kicked out of church for heresy is a small price for peace in mind :-)
Yes believe; to really believe is to take as utter truth and hold to in all you do as instructed by the thing you believe in and believe.

In other words; if I believe a stop light is red I will stop. If I believe it's hot outside I will wear a t-shirt. If I truly believe in the teachings, example, and self sacrifice of the pure lamb, then I will strive to keep the commands placed on my heart through the Word of GOD. If I truly believe in the salvation available to me though I am nought but sin in myself, then I will do all I can to patiently persevere with all humility and suplication to GOD, doing all works with the Word of GOD close at heart. Having Faith is believing in the Word of GOD, not just attesting to such to other men.

Peace

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 06:42 PM
Scripture teaches salvation by works is a false doctrine.

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Two things please?

Can you reference scripture that says Faith without works is what is needed for salvation?

And second; we most probably agree that Faith in the Lord and GOD is capable of things without limit, if one only truly believes, so how is it then that to you Faith cannot produce works?

Lastly; you seem to be conflating salvation of the masses with the call, edification, and direction of the elect. Though both are by God's will and grace, they are two different things.

It says plainly that those in need or pain can drink, but conversely, the elect, the truly called by GOD are not to drink. Indeed one would need to reconsider their actions if they take the Word of GOD as if it was merely some jest. And to knowingly lead others away from the right path towards GOD through Christ is the only unforgivable sin, and such an individual would indeed be the chiefest of sinners.

I look forward to your reply.

Peace

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 06:44 PM
Two things please?

Can you reference scripture that says Faith without works is what is needed for salvation?

And second; we most probably agree that Faith in the Lord and GOD is capable of things without limit, if one only truly believes, so how is it then that to you Faith cannot produce works?

Lastly; you seem to be conflating salvation of the masses with the call, edification, and direction of the elect. Though both are by God's will and grace, they are two different things.

It says plainly that those in need or pain can drink, but conversely, the elect, the truly called by GOD are not to drink. Indeed one would need to reconsider their actions if they take the Word of GOD as if it was merely some jest. And to knowingly lead others away from the right path towards GOD through Christ is the only unforgivable sin, and such an individual would indeed be the chiefest of sinners.

I look forward to your reply.

Peace

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Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:00 PM
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

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Thanks.

Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
20: For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sorry for the long post. It seemed necessary.

Peace

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 07:02 PM
Thanks.

Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
20: For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6 (KJV) - ሮሜ
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sorry for the long post. It seemed necessary.

Peace

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I said nothing about Rom 6. I posted Rom 5:10!

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:02 PM
Romans 5 (KJV) - ሮሜ
8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Definitely attests to not being of sin if you indeed are saved.

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:04 PM
I said nothing about Rom 6. I posted Rom 5:10!

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What's your point? You are aware that the chapters and verses are much more easy to grasp and understand if read without separation, right?

Peace

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beloved57
April 12th, 2016, 07:09 PM
What's your point? You are aware that the chapters and verses are much more easy to grasp and understand if read without separation, right?

Peace

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What do you mean what is my point ? Are you that inattentive?

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:37 PM
What do you mean what is my point ? Are you that inattentive?

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I'm sorry, what? I asked you 2 questions and have raised points that you have seemingly ignored. You attempted to support your claim (that works as a result of Faith, and/ or striving to abide by the command of GOD based on the Word of GOD is actually not the will of GOD) with one verse that was out of context completely, so I read it and surrounding text and found pertinent information that supported my claim ( that works as a result of Faith and not for material gain or acquisition or reward of any sort, or even the sight or conversation of man are not only acceptable, but instructed.

You keep twisting and dodging ever so subtly, yet still, it would behoove us all to read and understand our books, and our actual direction with honesty. This can be tricky as your initial thought will often be conveniently swept away by some other glaring notion. Deception is insidious and pervasive. It stands out quite easily though when the right light is shined on it.

Peace

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popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:41 PM
Faith alone is the only acceptable response to the gospel and this does not negate the book of James.

Faith alone in Christ produces the works or fruit of the Spirit.

Faith plus works produces the works of the flesh or carnal obedience.
What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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meshak
April 12th, 2016, 07:48 PM
What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.

popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 07:51 PM
Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.
It's okay, I have a feeling no one will be too interested in profitable conversation with me or trying to help brothers and or sisters faithful to our Lord and GOD, if I'm involved, shortly.

Peace

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meshak
April 12th, 2016, 07:58 PM
It's okay, I have a feeling no one will be too interested in profitable conversation with me or trying to help brothers and or sisters faithful to our Lord and GOD, if I'm involved, shortly.

Peace

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I have been reading yours and they are blessing.

popsthebuilder
April 12th, 2016, 08:25 PM
I have been reading yours and they are blessing.
Oh...that is very kind. Thank you very much. I'm just repeating what stands out in scripture. I'm very glad it can at least comfort in some way. All praise and thanks is to GOD through Christ.

Peace

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Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 11:21 PM
Epo is no different from b57. good luck trying to communicate with him.

You're no different than the scribes and Pharisees except they were intelligent and you're not and they were Jews and you're not.

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 11:22 PM
What do you mean " faith plus works"?

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It's the opposite of 'faith alone'.

popsthebuilder
April 13th, 2016, 04:28 AM
It's the opposite of 'faith alone'.
I'm glad you agree that works are a product of Faith. So do you agree that Faith without works is dead as stated in scripture? I do agree that works without Faith are not of the will of GOD or the direction of man under GOD.

Peace

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meshak
April 13th, 2016, 04:30 AM
I'm glad you agree that works are a product of Faith. So do you agree that Faith without works is dead as stated in scripture? I do agree that works without Faith are not of the will of GOD or the direction of man under GOD.

Peace

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Yes, and dead faith cannot save us.

Epoisses
April 13th, 2016, 08:37 AM
I'm glad you agree that works are a product of Faith. So do you agree that Faith without works is dead as stated in scripture? I do agree that works without Faith are not of the will of GOD or the direction of man under GOD.

I already said that 'faith alone' will produce the fruits of the Spirit (Love, joy, peace etc.). The faith plus works gospel is legalism and will never produce the fruits of the Spirit but the works of the flesh or law.

popsthebuilder
April 13th, 2016, 02:52 PM
I already said that 'faith alone' will produce the fruits of the Spirit (Love, joy, peace etc.). The faith plus works gospel is legalism and will never produce the fruits of the Spirit but the works of the flesh or law.
That doesn't really make sense to me. And you seem to limit the fruits of the spirit to emotions. Surely you don't declare the power of GOD or Faith to be limited to being only causal of emotional reactions? Not to mention affliction, and general negativity are exuded by the masses towards those rightly guided based on scripture, and though confirmation and or revelation through the Holy Spirit can and does bring joy, the only way it would bring constant elation or true peace would be for one to actually abide by the law that the Holy Spirit puts in your conscience; the things that weigh on your heart and bring shame. And no, one is powerless to do these things by their own will. That is the part that strengthens Faith even more, because one must be patient and persevering in their faith that by God's will all will be done.

In no way does that mean to dismiss any effort of righteous life which makes the example, teachings, and self sacrifice of the Christ in vain.

Peace

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Robert Pate
April 15th, 2016, 08:04 AM
That doesn't really make sense to me. And you seem to limit the fruits of the spirit to emotions. Surely you don't declare the power of GOD or Faith to be limited to being only causal of emotional reactions? Not to mention affliction, and general negativity are exuded by the masses towards those rightly guided based on scripture, and though confirmation and or revelation through the Holy Spirit can and does bring joy, the only way it would bring constant elation or true peace would be for one to actually abide by the law that the Holy Spirit puts in your conscience; the things that weigh on your heart and bring shame. And no, one is powerless to do these things by their own will. That is the part that strengthens Faith even more, because one must be patient and persevering in their faith that by God's will all will be done.

In no way does that mean to dismiss any effort of righteous life which makes the example, teachings, and self sacrifice of the Christ in vain.

Peace

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The Gospel is the heart and the center of the Christians faith. It is not faith in faith or faith in a doctrine, religion or a church. It is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

This is why it is not faith plus works. It is faith plus nothing. The thief on the cross did not have a chance to do works. All he could do was believe that Jesus could save him.

Catholics believe that it is faith plus works, this is why they are busy, busy, busy, trying to be good enough.

Nanja
April 15th, 2016, 05:55 PM
The Gospel is the heart and the center of the Christians faith. It is not faith in faith or faith in a doctrine, religion or a church. It is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

This is why it is not faith plus works. It is faith plus nothing. The thief on the cross did not have a chance to do works. All he could do was believe that Jesus could save him.

Catholics believe that it is faith plus works, this is why they are busy, busy, busy, trying to be good enough.


Believing unto Salvation is only made possible by one's heart/mind being transformed by God's Spirit Ezek. 36:26-27!

Thus, the thief on the cross was the perfect example of an Elect Son of God, Chosen in Christ Eph. 1:4-5 and given Grace before the world began 2Tim. 1:9: A Chosen Vessel of Mercy Rom. 9:23; Titus 3:5; Rom. 8:33!

~~~~~

popsthebuilder
April 15th, 2016, 06:02 PM
The Gospel is the heart and the center of the Christians faith. It is not faith in faith or faith in a doctrine, religion or a church. It is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

This is why it is not faith plus works. It is faith plus nothing. The thief on the cross did not have a chance to do works. All he could do was believe that Jesus could save him.

Catholics believe that it is faith plus works, this is why they are busy, busy, busy, trying to be good enough.
I agree that it is Faith alone.

All throughout scriptures it is reiterated that those who really believe will act as if they believe in all ways, at all times, in every case. Anything less isn't utter Faith. To believe a thing and take it seriously (which all "Christians" should) is to behave as if it is factual, not as if it is some social fad, or keeping up appearances. Faith alone indeed is the basis for works that are produced of that Faith. How can one observe the Faith or lack there of but by their works? Lip service isn't Faith.

Christ shows us the way. The lamb without blemish gave the perfect example. He died on the cross as sin though He was without fault. He paid for our sin that we might by his righteousness. If the Christ defeated sin, and we claim to be Christians who know Christ and accept him as our savior then how can one blatantly go against all that is written, and all that is imparted through the conscience? The fact is that most are blind to their own folly by way of misplaced pride, and arrogance.

I'm sorry, I'm not attacking you; I'm not really even directing this towards you, it is a very serious subject to me.

All produce works to varied degrees, period.

Either one's works will be corrupt, twisted, manipulative, and for the material benefit of the person who does them, for a time, or one's works will be for the benefit of those in need regardless of attainment for self whatsoever. And I'm not talking about your occupation that you use to sustain material existence within society. Everything one does is a work. Those who think Faith alone without any products coming from that Faith whatsoever, are not following what is taught by the Word of GOD. Even a quadriplegic can pray fervently and have great Faith. Anyone can be sincere and being sincere towards the salvation made available through Jesus the Christ consist of actually following the command of GOD. If you truly love a thing you will gladly, without hesitation, do any and everything within your power to show that love.

If all one can muster is an hour or two a week to show their love to others than the one they "love", then maybe it's more of a crush as opposed to real love. If I love a thing, I love it at all times, in every situation, anxious to show that love to them that they might know of it and it's validity and substance and depth.


Respectfully, with humility; peace

Sent from my HTC Desire 512 using Tapatalk

Robert Pate
April 17th, 2016, 04:23 PM
I agree that it is Faith alone.

All throughout scriptures it is reiterated that those who really believe will act as if they believe in all ways, at all times, in every case. Anything less isn't utter Faith. To believe a thing and take it seriously (which all "Christians" should) is to behave as if it is factual, not as if it is some social fad, or keeping up appearances. Faith alone indeed is the basis for works that are produced of that Faith. How can one observe the Faith or lack there of but by their works? Lip service isn't Faith.

Christ shows us the way. The lamb without blemish gave the perfect example. He died on the cross as sin though He was without fault. He paid for our sin that we might by his righteousness. If the Christ defeated sin, and we claim to be Christians who know Christ and accept him as our savior then how can one blatantly go against all that is written, and all that is imparted through the conscience? The fact is that most are blind to their own folly by way of misplaced pride, and arrogance.

I'm sorry, I'm not attacking you; I'm not really even directing this towards you, it is a very serious subject to me.

All produce works to varied degrees, period.

Either one's works will be corrupt, twisted, manipulative, and for the material benefit of the person who does them, for a time, or one's works will be for the benefit of those in need regardless of attainment for self whatsoever. And I'm not talking about your occupation that you use to sustain material existence within society. Everything one does is a work. Those who think Faith alone without any products coming from that Faith whatsoever, are not following what is taught by the Word of GOD. Even a quadriplegic can pray fervently and have great Faith. Anyone can be sincere and being sincere towards the salvation made available through Jesus the Christ consist of actually following the command of GOD. If you truly love a thing you will gladly, without hesitation, do any and everything within your power to show that love.

If all one can muster is an hour or two a week to show their love to others than the one they "love", then maybe it's more of a crush as opposed to real love. If I love a thing, I love it at all times, in every situation, anxious to show that love to them that they might know of it and it's validity and substance and depth.


Respectfully, with humility; peace

Sent from my HTC Desire 512 using Tapatalk


I agree with you. The Gospel of Jesus Christ calls for holy living and demands our total obedience to his word.

Crucible
April 17th, 2016, 04:38 PM
>Go to first page of thread made by Robert Pate
>Hit Ctrl+F, type 'Calvin'
>15 matches

You should keep count, Pate. Have you hit a 100 yet? :chuckle:

Crucible
April 17th, 2016, 04:44 PM
Catholics believe that it is faith plus works, this is why they are busy, busy, busy, trying to be good enough.

Not really.
The believe in faith and works, it's just that the Church loved to be oppressively strict and, today, they'll forgive you for pretty much anything if you sign up.

You aren't going to find many Catholics, at all, really living up to archaic Catholicism :rolleyes:

Robert Pate
April 17th, 2016, 05:03 PM
Not really.
The believe in faith and works, it's just that the Church loved to be oppressively strict and, today, they'll forgive you for pretty much anything if you sign up.

You aren't going to find many Catholics, at all, really living up to archaic Catholicism :rolleyes:


Not according to the Council of Trent.

"If anyone says that Jesus Christ was given by God to men as a redeemer in whom to trust and not a legislator whom to obey, let him be anathema".