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whatever67
April 5th, 2016, 02:11 PM
There is a psg in the Bible that says we are not to pray for those who are in serious sin. I will go try to find that psg for citation purposes, but first:

I have learned from experience how true it is that you cannot pray for people who are--shall we say--outside of the body of believers, those who just dont care about living according to God's laws, who have "fallen and [do not want to] get up"

One time i prayed for someone who was stealing from others and etc. I got a very strong feeling that praying for that person would not do any good and--well, there is a little more to it than "not do any good" but i will stick to what is important about my point.

I have known Christians who believe that you have to pray for everyone, but the Word clearly says, No, don't do that. Pray for those who are not committing huge, consequence-ridden sins (smaller sins like: swearing, eating a little more than one needs, choosing to watch Hogan's Heroes over reading the Bible..) :)

Maybe you could even pray for someone who has slipped and committed fornication, if the person was trying, but i think what God is referring to are people who are not even trying, who have lied to themselves so long about their sin, they have come to believe it isn't even sin

or if it is, so what

:think:

can't find the NT verse yet but here is

Jeremiah 7:16

King James 2000 Bible

Therefore pray not for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear you

OK, here it is from the New T


1 Jn 5:16

King James Bible
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Predi
April 5th, 2016, 02:30 PM
In NT you probably meant 1 John 5:16-17.

I can't see how we can relate the verse - Jeremiah 7:16 - directly to us unless you also relate the rest of the chapter... which would be pretty interesting :)

As for 1 John... what is "sin leading to death"? We can't draw conclusions before we can answer with 100% what "sin leading to death is". Can we?

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 04:18 PM
As for 1 John... what is "sin leading to death"? We can't draw conclusions before we can answer with 100% what "sin leading to death is". Can we?


Sin leading to death is a violation of God's everlasting covenant such as when David had Uriah killed, which was murder.

patrick jane
April 5th, 2016, 06:17 PM
Sin leading to death is a violation of God's everlasting covenant such as when David had Uriah killed, which was murder.
David did some stuff didn't he ?

Bradley D
April 5th, 2016, 11:48 PM
The one unforgiveable sin I know of is in Mark.

"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit” (Mark 3-28-30).

When one rejects the Holy Spirit, they are rejecting Jesus Christ.

Predi
April 6th, 2016, 05:16 AM
Sin leading to death is a violation of God's everlasting covenant such as when David had Uriah killed, which was murder.

Is this explanation explicitly in the Bible?

jamie
April 6th, 2016, 08:41 AM
Is this explanation explicitly in the Bible?



So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:12)

Nick M
April 6th, 2016, 09:18 AM
2 Timothy 4

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works.

jamie
April 6th, 2016, 11:25 AM
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

SonOfCaleb
April 7th, 2016, 08:44 AM
Is this explanation explicitly in the Bible?

No its not. Futhermore David was forgiven of his sin by God and was listed by Paul in Hebrews 11:32 for his outstanding faith.

Predi
April 7th, 2016, 10:36 AM
So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:12)

I actually was not asking for a verse, it was a yes or no question :) So... is it in the Bible or not?

patrick jane
April 7th, 2016, 10:39 AM
I actually was not asking for a verse, it was a yes or no question :) So... is it in the Bible or not?
Yes, Do not Kill is in the Bible, it's a commandment

Predi
April 7th, 2016, 10:46 AM
No its not. Futhermore David was forgiven of his sin by God and was listed by Paul in Hebrews 11:32 for his outstanding faith.

Great observation. I've seen lots of possible explanations to "sin leading to death" but I'd never believe someone would think of David...

jamie
April 7th, 2016, 11:37 AM
I actually was not asking for a verse, it was a yes or no question :) So... is it in the Bible or not?


Yes.

serpentdove
April 7th, 2016, 11:54 AM
“…I have learned from experience how true it is that you cannot pray for people who are--shall we say--outside of the body of believers, those who just don’t care about living according to God's laws, who have "fallen and [do not want to] get up…Jeremiah 7:16” Some people walk willingly into captivity (Jn 8:34). http://forums.cnetfrance.fr/images/smilies/boulet.gif

See:

Judgment for Idolatry (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/Judgment%20for%20Idolatry.htm)J. Vernon McGee



[1 Jn 5:16] If God is glorified in our lives--that's all that matters. :straight:

See:

1 Jn 5:16 (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/1%20Jn%205%2016%20McGee.htm) by J. Vernon McGee

Predi
April 7th, 2016, 12:36 PM
Yes.

Thanks! Can you tell me where it is?

Predi
April 7th, 2016, 12:45 PM
Yes, Do not Kill is in the Bible, it's a commandment

Are you saying John 5:16-17 is telling not to pray for those who kill?

SonOfCaleb
April 8th, 2016, 02:42 AM
Great observation. I've seen lots of possible explanations to "sin leading to death" but I'd never believe someone would think of David...

Sin does indeed lead to death because Adam sinned thus as the Apostle Paul said at Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". But in the context of what the previous poster claimed in regards to Gods covenant with the Hebrews its not true. Yes capital punishment was part of the Mosaic Law for murder. Matter of fact capital punishment precedes the Mosaic Law and was known as far back as Noahs time just after the flood. BUT many faithful men such as Samson, Mannaseh, Josiah and even Samuel commited murder. The examples of Samson and the prophet Samuel are even more pertinent as they were Nazarites who were ordained by God long before their birth. Josiah and Manasseh were both anointed Kings of Israel by God. The later was a mass murderer who almost rivalled the Assyrians in his cruelty having had the prophet Isaiah sawn in half. Heb 11:37.
If the Law Covenant between God and the Nation of Israel could be broken via murder or sin then the nation of Israel in antiquity would have ceased to exist long before Jesus Christ came on the scene.

serpentdove
April 8th, 2016, 01:43 PM
The one unforgiveable sin I know of is in Mark.

"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit” (Mark 3-28-30).

When one rejects the Holy Spirit, they are rejecting Jesus Christ.Yes. God is merciful. He's worked your whole life to win you to himself.

With some, you can only discuss the weather. http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gif

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning [2 Pet. 2:20].

"These apostates have a head knowledge of Christ. They know the truth but have no love of the truth. They reject what they once professed and become enslaved in some sort of corruption.

And, my friend, I hear many folk say, “Oh, I am very religious. I belong to a certain church. We don’t believe the Bible is really the Word of God, but we talk a lot about love and brotherhood. We have a beautiful church and a lovely service that makes us feel good.” Such people have escaped the pollutions of the world. They are horrified when they read of crime and violence in the newspaper. You see, they have escaped the pollutions of the world but not the corruptions.

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” It is not that they haven’t heard the gospel. They have heard the gospel. One man told me, “I listen to your Bible broadcast nearly every day.” But he had to admit that he didn’t believe anything; he even doubted that there was a God. That man knows the gospel. When someone asked me, “Why don’t you present the gospel to him sometime when you’re playing golf?” I told him, “He’s heard me present the gospel over a hundred times. There is no need of saying any more.” Peter says, “They are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”

In this chapter Peter has dealt very definitely with the apostasy that was coming into the church through false teachers who were creeping in and teaching false doctrines, teaching that which is contrary to the Word of God. Peter says that they pervert the truth of God, and they do it for their own advantage. These false teachers exalt themselves instead of exalting Christ. They do not use the Word of God except for a few little proof texts that more or less clothe their teaching with a pious halo. They use big words which are counterfeit words. They try to impress people that they are very intellectual, and they are interested in making money. They claim that they can change people. I know that I will get into trouble by saying this, but I think you ought to examine very carefully anyone who claims to have a supernatural power to heal or to perform miracles. Another thing that sometimes identifies a false teacher is that he is living secretly in lust and sin. You and I cannot fight these false teachers; I’m not attempting to fight them; I’m just trying to expose them. But one day God is going to expose them, and He is going to judge them." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, p. 741). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

6days
April 8th, 2016, 11:52 PM
I have learned from experience how true it is that you cannot pray for people who are--shall we say--outside of the body of believers, those who just dont care about living according to God's laws, who have "fallen and [do not want to] get up"
May I share a story...or 2 with you?

One of my early memories is spending time with my grandparents, and their habit of reading God's Word after breakfast every morning. After Bible reading we would kneel at our chairs and pray. I still remember how uncomfortable those old linoleum floors were for my 5 year old knees. But Gramma and Grampa knelt and prayed....and prayed. They prayed that their daughter, my auntie joyce and her husband (uncle Tom) would accept Christ as their Savior.

At age 6, I returned to spend another week of summer vacation with Gramma and Grampa. It was the same prayers...the same hard floors. And this continued summer after summer, year upon year. When I was about 8 years old, I remember getting annoyed at these "useless" prayers. You see....uncle Tom and Auntie Joyce were the town drunks. They wanted nothing to do with Christianity....yet the prayers contined. "What a waste of time" I thought..."praying for someone who obviously rejects God...and will never become Christians".

God is so good! He heard those prayers. It was a true miracle..... my Uncle Tom and Auntie Joyce became new creatures. "This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!" 2 Cor. 5:17 Auntie Joyce has now passed away, but she anad Uncle have left a Christian legacy...a family that worships Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Cousin Kim has pastored churches.....served several years in Pakistan and now teaches at a Bible school. Praise God that my Gramma and Grampa believed that God would answer their prayers.

And..... as 'despicable' as the town drinks were...you and I are no different. We all have sinned. But its easy to think we are not so bad, when our sin is not on public display. "But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners". Rom. 5:8

Don't give up on hopeless causes. Christ shed His blood for them.

whatever67
April 9th, 2016, 03:19 PM
In NT you probably meant 1 John 5:16-17.

I can't see how we can relate the verse - Jeremiah 7:16 - directly to us unless you also relate the rest of the chapter... which would be pretty interesting :)

As for 1 John... what is "sin leading to death"? We can't draw conclusions before we can answer with 100% what "sin leading to death is". Can we?

you can if the Holy Spirit tells you or seems to be telling you to stop praying for someone. There is also that psg about turning someone over to Satan (so he might repent?)

whatever67
April 9th, 2016, 03:21 PM
May I

And..... as 'despicable' as the town drinks were...you and I are no different. We all have sinned. But its easy to think we are not so bad, when our sin is not on public display. "But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners". Rom. 5:8

Don't give up on hopeless causes. Christ shed His blood for them.

I was not speaking of people who are just lost. I am speaking of people who know the truth, know Jesus (more/less) but just say to heck with Christianity, and / or do really evil things. Drinking too much is not good and is a sin but sometimes people are hurting and that's why they want to escape that way.. they are not doing something they think is horrendously evil (as baby killing "doctors" do)

6days
April 9th, 2016, 03:29 PM
I was not speaking of people who are just lost. I am speaking of people who know the truth, know Jesus (more/less) but just say to heck with Christianity, and / or do really evil things. Drinking too much is not good and is a sin but sometimes people are hurting and that's why they want to escape that way.. they are not doing something they think is horrendously evil (as baby killing "doctors" do)
I understand..... But, do you think we are in a position to know if someone is lost for eternity...and give up on them? We might think someone was saved, and turned away... but can we know?