PDA

View Full Version : HOW MANY ON TOL ARE GRACE GOSPEL BELIEVERS?



Pages : [1] 2

Grosnick Marowbe
April 5th, 2016, 12:13 AM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.

Predi
April 5th, 2016, 08:00 AM
I thought I was one until I read that definition :)

I believe God's grace is so big that it applies even to those who failed to hear Paul.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 5th, 2016, 08:07 AM
I thought I was one until I read that definition :)

I believe God's grace is so big that it applies even to those who failed to hear Paul.

You have the right to believe whatever you wish. However, when one's eternal destination is at stake it's best to make sure you're believing in the one and only truth.

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 08:29 AM
I believe Paul's teachings are not essential to salvation. Righteous Abel was the first person to be saved by Christ's grace.

Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible, not the New Testament.

Predi
April 5th, 2016, 08:34 AM
You have the right to believe whatever you wish. However, when one's eternal destination is at stake it's best to make sure you're believing in the one and only truth.

I believed this for many years and I was sure that's what the Bible taught. Just a few years ago I realized that if that were true I should see Paul urging everyone to preach without ceasing... I should see him worrying about fellow Christians' family members, who leave this world for eternal damnation.

Well, I found nothing of this kind in the Bible.

I don't want to argue, I was just drawn to this topic by the title and wanted to explain why I consider myself a grace believer, but my definition of grace is much shorter :)

Grosnick Marowbe
April 5th, 2016, 08:43 AM
I believe Paul's teachings are not essential to salvation. Righteous Abel was the first person to be saved by Christ's grace.

Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible, not the New Testament.

?

patrick jane
April 5th, 2016, 08:51 AM
I believe Paul's teachings are not essential to salvation. Righteous Abel was the first person to be saved by Christ's grace.

Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible, not the New Testament.
Paul taught brand new things told to him by Christ Jesus, you're lost.

Predi
April 5th, 2016, 08:57 AM
Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible, not the New Testament.

He did use Hebrew Bible, but what he taught from was direct revelation from the Lord, wasn't it?

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 09:08 AM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Cc: heir john w glorydaz exminister

What evidence do you have that you are sealed by the spirit? :sherlock: Mt 7:20 Tell us all about putting sin behind you and you new found relationship with your Lord and Savior. :blabla:

If you claim a verse of scripture, :listen: be sure it belongs to you (Zech. 13:1, 1 Jn 3:14).

See:

The Power of the Resurrection (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/leading-the-way/listen/the-power-of-the-resurrection-517474.html) Michael Youssef

Also see:

What is antinomianism? (http://www.gotquestions.org/antinomianism.html)
What is easy believism? (http://www.gotquestions.org/easy-believism.html)
What is Free Grace Theology? (http://www.gotquestions.org/free-grace.html)
What is cheap grace? (http://www.gotquestions.org/cheap-grace.html)
What is the emerging / emergent church movement? (http://www.gotquestions.org/emerging-church-emergent.html)

Related:

Lordship (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116690-quot-Lordship-Salvation-quot-perverting-the-gospel-of-Christ&p=4634445#post4634445)
Must We Confess Every Sin? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117221-MUST-WE-CONFESS-EVERY-SIN-TO-BE-FORGIVEN&p=4664864&posted=1#post4664864)
Give Your Life to Jesus (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116841-quot-Give-Your-Life-to-Jesus-quot)
Where is Prince Now? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117565-Where-Is-Prince-Now)

Robert Pate
April 5th, 2016, 09:18 AM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.

"Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14.

Epoisses
April 5th, 2016, 09:20 AM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.

I consider myself a grace gospel believer. I affirm all five solas of the Reformation and believe in grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone.

I personally enjoy grace based speakers like Joseph Prince who are mocked by many.

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 09:32 AM
He did use Hebrew Bible, but what he taught from was direct revelation from the Lord, wasn't it?


Paul taught the Jews that the law does not of itself produce salvation. Paul taught Gentiles they were included in the Abrahamic covenant.

There was nothing new in either of these teachings. Christ taught circumcision of the heart through Moses.

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 10:26 AM
"Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14.

How many do you think will be raptured? Let's see, there was Enoch... Gen. 5:24 :rapture:

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 11:59 AM
...[W]hen one's eternal destination is at stake it's best to make sure you're believing in the one and only truth.

:blabla: How has it changed you? :sherlock: Mt 7:20

See:

Your Friendly Enemy Genesis (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/listen/your-friendly-enemy-genesis-517542.html) Adrian Rogers

patrick jane
April 5th, 2016, 12:01 PM
:blabla: How has it changed you? :sherlock: Mt 7:20

See:

Your Friendly Enemy Genesis (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/listen/your-friendly-enemy-genesis-517542.html) Adrian Rogers

Oh, darn it Serpy

SaulToPaul
April 5th, 2016, 12:01 PM
Oh, darn it Serpy

Yo, Adrian (Rogers)

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 12:10 PM
Oh, darn it Serpy
GM will now tell us how much he hates the world system (Jas 4:4). http://orig11.deviantart.net/eb99/f/2010/062/d/c/blanket_by_wooded_wolf.gif

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 12:14 PM
Your next thread: :sherlock: God lovin' me while I'm lovin' sin http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/slow-dance-smiley.gif 1 Jn 2:15

glorydaz
April 5th, 2016, 12:37 PM
Cc: heir john w glorydaz exminister

What evidence do you have that you are sealed by the spirit? :sherlock: Mt 7:20 Tell us all about putting sin behind you and you new found relationship with your Lord and Savior. :blabla:

If you claim a verse of scripture, :listen: be sure it belongs to you (Zech. 13:1, 1 Jn 3:14).

See:

The Power of the Resurrection (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/leading-the-way/listen/the-power-of-the-resurrection-517474.html) Michael Youssef

Also see:

What is antinomianism? (http://www.gotquestions.org/antinomianism.html)
What is easy believism? (http://www.gotquestions.org/easy-believism.html)
What is Free Grace Theology? (http://www.gotquestions.org/free-grace.html)
What is cheap grace? (http://www.gotquestions.org/cheap-grace.html)
What is the emerging / emergent church movement? (http://www.gotquestions.org/emerging-church-emergent.html)

Related:

Lordship (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116690-quot-Lordship-Salvation-quot-perverting-the-gospel-of-Christ&p=4634445#post4634445)
Must We Confess Every Sin? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117221-MUST-WE-CONFESS-EVERY-SIN-TO-BE-FORGIVEN/page15)
Give Your Life to Jesus (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116841-quot-Give-Your-Life-to-Jesus-quot&p=4641916#post4641916)

Why do you keep doing this? Is it because you don't have assurance of your own salvation?

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 12:44 PM
[See: The Power of the Resurrection (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/leading-the-way/listen/the-power-of-the-resurrection-517474.html) Michael Youssef] Why do you keep doing this? Is it because you don't have assurance of your own salvation?

exminister :yawn: has answered that question for all of us (Eph 4:14). :peach:

glorydaz
April 5th, 2016, 12:48 PM
Your next thread: :sherlock: God lovin' me while I'm lovin' sin http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/slow-dance-smiley.gif 1 Jn 2:15

New creatures don't love sin if that's what you're thinking.


2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Clete
April 5th, 2016, 12:50 PM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.

Count me in!

glorydaz
April 5th, 2016, 12:51 PM
exminister :yawn: has answered that question for all of us (Eph 4:14). :peach:

Well, I didn't see what he said. I'm not sure how you could think anyone could answer for "all of us" though. :think:

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 12:52 PM
Well, I didn't see what he said. I'm not sure how you could think anyone could answer for "all of us" though. :think:
I'm not sure :yawn: how he does that either (Eph 4:14). :think:

glorydaz
April 5th, 2016, 12:55 PM
I'm not sure :yawn: how he does that either (Eph 4:14).

Oh, well if I'm boring you, I'll just move along.

patrick jane
April 5th, 2016, 12:59 PM
I'm a big time GGB !!

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 01:01 PM
Oh, well if I'm boring you, I'll just move along.Num. 13:30

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/125/b/b/_washclothes__by_CYCLER.gif

(:yawn:) is short for fallacious argument (Eph 4:14)--there are so many on the left (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10)

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 01:06 PM
New creatures don't love sin if that's what you're thinking.


2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
I'd ask GM to examine :sherlock: his new creatureness (2 Co 13:5). http://orig04.deviantart.net/a166/f/2007/068/7/b/butterfly_rvmp_by_bad_blood.gif He'd take offense to that and place me on ignore (Eph 4:14). http://vananne.com/serpentdove/noway.gif

glorydaz
April 5th, 2016, 01:08 PM
Num. 13:30

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/125/b/b/_washclothes__by_CYCLER.gif

(:yawn:) is short for fallacious argument (Eph 4:14)--there are so many on the left (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10)

Are you trying to make an argument of some sort?

LoneStar
April 5th, 2016, 01:16 PM
[I]How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" I be one.

serpentdove
April 5th, 2016, 01:37 PM
[Lordship (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116690-quot-Lordship-Salvation-quot-perverting-the-gospel-of-Christ&p=4634445#post4634445), Must We Confess Every Sin? (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117221-MUST-WE-CONFESS-EVERY-SIN-TO-BE-FORGIVEN/page15), Give Your Life to Jesus (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116841-quot-Give-Your-Life-to-Jesus-quot&p=4641916#post4641916)] Are you trying to make an argument of some sort?

No.

You had asked why I'm http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif doing this. You heretofore mentioned were the ones who doth protested too much.

Predi
April 5th, 2016, 02:46 PM
There was nothing new in either of these teachings.

Nothing new?


No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)


This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. (...) God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness, the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lordís people. (Colossians 1)

SaulToPaul
April 6th, 2016, 06:31 AM
The good news of the grace of God is that not only did Christ die for the sins of Israel and Gentiles in the covenant promises, but also Gentiles such as us today who were never promised anything from God according to the prophets.

Zeke
April 6th, 2016, 09:15 AM
The Way was the same yesterday and today, ever since Divine off springs/Souls have incarnated, And the way back has always been within us no matter the age, Grace being the overcoming tool that has no label or egocentric/pride that preach exclusions built by doctrines of men.

serpentdove
April 7th, 2016, 03:14 PM
Avoid judgment by turning from sin (Jer 7:3–7). :juggle:

Crucible
April 7th, 2016, 03:21 PM
Another ridiculously dumb anti-Calvinist thread :rolleyes:

People who don't realize the grace and your ample misunderstanding of Calvinism, pat each other on the back and call an angel a demon.
That's what false witnessing, time wasting, remarkably simple minded folk do after all- you should more concerned about actual blasphemers and enemies of God than the ORIGINAL DOCTRINES WHICH FREED YOU FROM THE POPE :doh:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 03:46 PM
Another ridiculously dumb anti-Calvinist thread :rolleyes:

People who don't realize the grace and your ample misunderstanding of Calvinism, pat each other on the back and call an angel a demon.
That's what false witnessing, time wasting, remarkably simple minded folk do after all- you should more concerned about actual blasphemers and enemies of God than the ORIGINAL DOCTRINES WHICH FREED YOU FROM THE POPE :doh:

Well, at least, you have an opinion. That's a good start. I'm of an opinion that Calvinists misinterpret Scriptures to fit nicely into their false doctrine. Furthermore, I believe that Calvinists (Reformed folks) have to change the Character and intent of the God of the Bible in order to make Him fit into their false Gospel. (Another Gospel) Your turn.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 03:49 PM
I'm of an opinion that "Calvinism" (Reformed Theology) is a form of cultist belief and denies the obvious truths of Scripture.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 03:51 PM
Crucible appears to be a rabid Calvinist. That's a shame.

Crucible
April 7th, 2016, 03:53 PM
I'm of an opinion that "Calvinism" (Reformed Theology) is a form of cultist belief and denies the obvious truths of Scripture.

How is it 'cultist' belief when it is the historical core of the ENTIRE REFORMATION :freak:

It IS the obvious truth of Scripture, that is why IT WAS PUT FORTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you want heresy, just refer to your actual cultist belief that started in the 1800's among oddball American society :rolleyes:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:04 PM
How is it 'cultist' belief when it is the historical core of the ENTIRE REFORMATION :freak:

It IS the obvious truth of Scripture, that is why IT WAS PUT FORTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you want heresy, just refer to your actual cultist belief that started in the 1800's among oddball American society :rolleyes:

Well, it's kind of obvious that those who don't follow the truth of the Grace Gospel (Pual's Gospel) would have your attitude. Calvinists are usually, arrogant, argumentative, and feel as if they are in the "Higher Echelon of intelligentsia." That has been my observation of these folks.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:05 PM
After all, they consider themselves to be the "Elect."

Crucible
April 7th, 2016, 04:06 PM
After all, they consider themselves to be the "Elect."

The Bible calls us the Elect :doh:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:07 PM
More than likely Crucible is a Presbyterian? Could be a Baptist but I'll say Presbyterian.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:13 PM
The Bible calls us the Elect :doh:

Calvinists believe that means them of course. I mean, why wouldn't they desire to have the Elect be none other than themselves? It only makes sense to them, right? Their indoctrination is way off. However, they'll bet their eternity on it. Therefore, it makes total sense to them. I can see that. I may not share their opinion of themselves but I can see why they want things to be that way.

Crucible
April 7th, 2016, 04:18 PM
[I]Calvinists believe that means them of course. I mean, why wouldn't they desire to have the Elect be none other than themselves?

:doh:

SAYS THE PERSON WHO JUST MADE A THREAD ASKING BASICALLY WHO AND WHO ISN'T CHRISTIAN ACCORDING TO THEIR BIAS

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:21 PM
:doh:

SAYS THE PERSON WHO JUST MADE A THREAD ASKING BASICALLY WHO AND WHO ISN'T CHRISTIAN ACCORDING TO THEIR BIAS

What thread are you speaking of? If you have a difficult time remembering, just take a little break, kick back and have a nice ice cold glass of lemonade.

Crucible
April 7th, 2016, 04:24 PM
What thread are you speaking of? If you have a difficult time remembering, just take a little break, kick back and have a nice ice cold glass of lemonade.

THIS ONE.

You made this thread to insinuate that Calvinists are a cult, which spams these forums at a dozen per second. It should get old after a while, but delusional people never find their delusions to have an expiration date.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:27 PM
THIS ONE.

You made this thread to insinuate that Calvinists are a cult, which spams these forums at a dozen per second. It should get old after a while, but delusional people never find their delusions to have an expiration date.

Oh, this one? Why didn't you say so in the beginning? See what you put yourself through? Did ya have that tall glass of lemonaide I recommended? :rotfl:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 7th, 2016, 04:33 PM
Hey, Crucible, I'm kind of getting the suspicion you're not one of my fans? I want you to know, that's okay. I won't hold it against ya. I realize you have some "anger issues" so I'll be patient with you, okay pal? Just take some deep breaths and try not to hyperventilate.

Choleric
April 7th, 2016, 07:04 PM
How is it 'cultist' belief when it is the historical core of the ENTIRE REFORMATION :freak:

It IS the obvious truth of Scripture, that is why IT WAS PUT FORTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you want heresy, just refer to your actual cultist belief that started in the 1800's among oddball American society :rolleyes:

Calvinism is an invention of a theologian that is contrary to dozens and dozens of scripture passages.

When your entire doctrinal system relies on "all" not being "all" and "whosoever" not meaning anybody, it is obvious to those of us with a higher appreciation for the words God wrote.

serpentdove
April 8th, 2016, 11:53 AM
Turn from sin (Jer 7:3-7). Turn to God (Deut 30:1–3). :juggle:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 01:05 PM
Calvinism is an invention of a theologian that is contrary to dozens and dozens of scripture passages.

When your entire doctrinal system relies on "all" not being "all" and "whosoever" not meaning anybody, it is obvious to those of us with a higher appreciation for the words God wrote.

AMEN!

Tambora
April 8th, 2016, 04:10 PM
HOW MANY ON TOL ARE GRACE GOSPEL BELIEVERS?Me.

Crucible
April 8th, 2016, 04:24 PM
HOW MANY ON TOL ARE GRACE GOSPEL BELIEVERS?

This is ridiculous- acting as if Calvinists do not believe in grace and the Gospel.

It just shows you all's incompetence in theology. You will find the brightest among Protestantism hold to predestination theology- you're not even Protestant if you believe otherwise :rolleyes:

There's only one Gospel, and it's TULIP you extravagant morons :)

serpentdove
April 8th, 2016, 04:33 PM
On the day I settle accounts, I will hold them accountable for their sin (Ex 32:34). :juggle:

Crucible
April 8th, 2016, 04:48 PM
On the day I settle accounts, I will hold them accountable for their sin (Ex 32:34). :juggle:

Only God decides our fate, for He created us.

serpentdove
April 8th, 2016, 04:52 PM
Only God decides our fate...

:yawn: Strawman Eph 4:14

He will not leave the guilty unpunished, bringing the consequences of the fathers’ wrongdoing on the children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation (Ex 34:7). :juggle:

Epoisses
April 8th, 2016, 09:26 PM
This is ridiculous- acting as if Calvinists do not believe in grace and the Gospel.

It just shows you all's incompetence in theology. You will find the brightest among Protestantism hold to predestination theology- you're not even Protestant if you believe otherwise :rolleyes:

There's only one Gospel, and it's TULIP you extravagant morons :)

You're an idiot who thinks Salvation is winning the cosmic lottery!

whitestone
April 8th, 2016, 10:29 PM
I believe in grace G.M.,,,,and I also believe there are a great multitude among us who aren't that confident in the cross.

,,Again, I believe there are many,being unsure that the blood of the cross reconciled them of their lack of ability to reason through and comprehend the works that they should have done,but didn't,because they couldn't muster up the strength to accomplish those things they should have done.

,,,And that also it is apparent in their works and the words they type that they also do not believe that the lord Jesus Christ is the provider, whom has done the very work of their salvation,Grace.

It makes me cry to see them. They are in a panic,the panic of unbelief. They in believing not that the Lord has made a mince their weakness seek to fulfill that which they believe in their hearts has not yet been fulfilled,the work of their salvation.

The Lord hath undergone an bitter agony,an huge waist of energy in his efforts to deliver them their salvation,it seems they think. Why would they,or why should they believe in Grace seeing that they in their great intelligence and supreme strengths in abilities of preforming the works of salvation trust or believe that they are saved by any other work other than their own?

Here is the division,the separation of those who believe in Grace from those who do not,that they would struggle to do the very thing that they believe he did not,,,let them all claim to be the Christ,the Savior,,,many shall come,many are present.

I believe in Grace,,,and I am in the midst of loving you,

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 10:50 PM
HOW MANY ON TOL ARE GRACE GOSPEL BELIEVERS?Me.

You sure are Tam.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 10:54 PM
This is ridiculous- acting as if Calvinists do not believe in grace and the Gospel.

It just shows you all's incompetence in theology. You will find the brightest among Protestantism hold to predestination theology- you're not even Protestant if you believe otherwise :rolleyes:

There's only one Gospel, and it's TULIP you extravagant morons :)

You just proved my point pal. Calvinists are arrogant, egocentric, argumentative and angry. You fit the profile perfectly my friend and fellow poster. You are one proud follower of the murderer John Calvin.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 10:58 PM
You're an idiot who thinks Salvation is winning the cosmic lottery!

Crucible is an ignorant man/woman.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 11:04 PM
Calvinists like Crucible think highly of themselves and their opinions. However, what they think and what is, are two different things. He thinks of himself as the "Cat's Meow" whereas, he's actually a tiny squeaking mouse. Therein lies the difference.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 8th, 2016, 11:10 PM
I sympathize with his lackluster plight. I mean, in reality, he's just a disembodied "voice" on the Internet like the rest of us. Yet, he desires to have his opinion "stand out."

whitestone
April 8th, 2016, 11:24 PM
indeed,we bang away on the keyboard and spill our guts. One bangs away Grace,while those who are antichrist explain the things we should do in place of the things they reason any good replacement Savior would have done if he was the actual Christ,,,"send in the back up Savior,#666",,,

journey
April 9th, 2016, 12:06 AM
To the OP,

Amen! - Good post. Yes, I am a Grace Gospel believer.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

serpentdove
April 9th, 2016, 08:28 AM
...Everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 Jn 3:3–15). :juggle:

Robert Pate
April 13th, 2016, 07:28 AM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.

A conservative estimate would be about 10%. The rest are just religious.

heir
April 13th, 2016, 10:40 AM
I believe Paul's teachings are not essential to salvation. What a stupid thing to believe. The Bible tells us that there is a gospel (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV today to all men 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV).

Paul was given that gospel by revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV). It was before a mystery Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

If the gospel that is the power of God to save everyone that believeth was given to Paul and preached by Paul (and it was), then it stands to reason that "Paul's teachings" (particularly the gospel Paul preached) ARE "essential to salvation".

heir
April 13th, 2016, 10:44 AM
I believed this for many years and I was sure that's what the Bible taught. Just a few years ago I realized that if that were true I should see Paul urging everyone to preach without ceasing... I should see him worrying about fellow Christians' family members, who leave this world for eternal damnation.

Well, I found nothing of this kind in the Bible.Paul writes that God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV) and what is it that will save them that believe, but the gospel that Paul preached (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Is that the gospel you preach?

heir
April 13th, 2016, 10:47 AM
The good news of the grace of God is that not only did Christ die for the sins of Israel and Gentiles in the covenant promises, but also Gentiles such as us today who were never promised anything from God according to the prophets.Amen!

heir
April 13th, 2016, 10:49 AM
This is ridiculous- acting as if Calvinists do not believe in grace and the Gospel.

It just shows you all's incompetence in theology. You will find the brightest among Protestantism hold to predestination theology- you're not even Protestant if you believe otherwise :rolleyes:

There's only one Gospel, and it's TULIP you extravagant morons :)When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the gospel of your salvation?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 10:53 AM
You just proved my point pal. Calvinists are arrogant, egocentric, argumentative and angry. You fit the profile perfectly my friend and fellow poster. You are one proud follower of the murderer John Calvin.

Is that why there are a million anti-Calvinist threads and few vice versa :idunno:

Some get tired of the constant riffraff of people so desperate to attack their belief, wailing nonstop with a million errant claims and then when one comes along that's worth talking about- you all think you've beaten the theology.

It's blatant, proud ignorance that would never be displayed somewhere within the confines of reason- only here, where almighty ignorance is a golden calf when one is in doubt.

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 11:38 AM
When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the gospel of your salvation?

I need not reply to such shenanigans. I'm a traditional Protestant who holds to the integral cores of the Reformation, not some oddity of the 19th century.

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 11:46 AM
You're an idiot who thinks Salvation is winning the cosmic lottery!

Actually, it's people who hold to a primacy of freewill who ultimately hold that God plays dice :rolleyes:

SaulToPaul
April 13th, 2016, 11:49 AM
I need not reply to such shenanigans. I'm a traditional Protestant who holds to the integral cores of the Reformation, not some oddity of the 19th century.

So, you are basically a reformed catholic?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 12:04 PM
So, you are basically a reformed catholic?


https://calvinstulip.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/calvinist_symbol.png

Calvinism (also called the Reformed tradition, Reformed Christianity, or the Reformed faith) is a major branch of Protestantism that follows the theological tradition and forms of Christian practice of John Calvin and other Reformation-era theologians.



There you go. I even made it look nice, just for you :wave2:

Predi
April 13th, 2016, 12:42 PM
Paul writes that God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV) and what is it that will save them that believe, but the gospel that Paul preached (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Is that the gospel you preach?

How could I not? The problem is I don't think the term "salvation" to most Christians today means what it meant to Paul. The question is - what is salvation? "Save/salvation" are common words in the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew so... the context is everything.

jamie
April 13th, 2016, 02:24 PM
How could I not? The problem is I don't think the term "salvation" to most Christians today means what it meant to Paul. The question is - what is salvation? "Save/salvation" are common words in the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew so... the context is everything.


Salvation is immortality. Jesus is the first of many to attain immortality (salvation from death).

heir
April 13th, 2016, 03:10 PM
I need not reply to such shenanigans. I'm a traditional Protestant who holds to the integral cores of the Reformation, not some oddity of the 19th century.The language I used is the very terminology Paul used in scripture to describe the Spirit sealing of those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. As it is, only AFTER hearing and believing that a believer is sealed today. Your inability to answer is on you. If there has never been a moment when you have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, you are not in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV) as the gospel of your salvation is the means by which one is saved today (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

heir
April 13th, 2016, 03:13 PM
How could I not? There is more than one gospel in the bible. Many preach from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and claim that they preach it, yet it wasn't even preached there. Most who say they preach it can no more tell me what the gospel of their salvation is than they can tell me where to find it. I hope you preach it. If not : Galatians 1:8-9 KJV.
The problem is I don't think the term "salvation" to most Christians today means what it meant to Paul. The question is - what is salvation? "Save/salvation" are common words in the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew so... the context is everything.saved from wrath Romans 5:9 KJV,

not appointed to wrath 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV

Predi
April 13th, 2016, 03:14 PM
Salvation is immortality. Jesus is the first of many to attain immortality (salvation from death).

That seems to make sense. But who gets saved? Only those who believe?

Predi
April 13th, 2016, 03:16 PM
There is more than one gospel in the bible. Many preach from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and claim that they preach it, yet it wasn't even preached there. Most who say they preach it can no more tell me what the gospel of their salvation is than they can tell me where to find it. I hope you preach it. If not : Galatians 1:8-9 KJV. saved from wrath Romans 5:9 KJV,

not appointed to wrath 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV

Thanks, but what is wrath exactly?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 03:18 PM
The language I used is the very terminology Paul used in scripture

Nah.

I know Darbyist rhetoric when I see it. Let Paul be Paul and you be you, okay? I know how you all try to influence people, and it's nothing but reverse psychology on the naive.

heir
April 13th, 2016, 03:19 PM
Thanks, but what is wrath exactly?

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

The Body of Christ is saved from it (Romans 5:9 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV)!

heir
April 13th, 2016, 03:21 PM
Nah.

I know Darbyist rhetoric when I see it. Let Paul be Paul and you be you, okay? I know how you all try to influence people, and it's nothing but reverse psychology on the naive :wave2:The order is trust AFTER hearing and believing! Straightforward stuff!

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 03:27 PM
The order is trust AFTER hearing and believing! Straightforward stuff!

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Cool story.

Reverse psychology- you basically just forced your way in, to drop something pleasant to the ears- which nonetheless has absolutely no importance to this discussion.

heir
April 13th, 2016, 03:31 PM
Cool story.

Reverse psychology- you basically just forced your way in, to drop something pleasant to the ears- which nonetheless has absolutely no importance to this discussion.When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 03:55 PM
Lol

I was right :rotfl:

~Darbyist~

heir
April 13th, 2016, 04:04 PM
Lol

I was right :rotfl:

~Darbyist~You can't answer the question. How sad.

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 04:15 PM
You can't answer the question. How sad.

You're question has no value to it, because it's either going to follow with what you believe or what I believe. I believe that a person doesn't choose what they believe. Therefore, predestination.

heir
April 13th, 2016, 04:24 PM
You're question has no value to it, because it's either going to follow with what you believe or what I believe. I believe that a person doesn't choose what they believe. Therefore, predestination.Predestination is based on God's foreknowledge (Romans 8:29-30 KJV) of who will believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The question is valid. It is always asked in hope that the person being asked, has had a moment when they have. If not, this same question using God's terms can cause one to 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV (Hebrews 4:12 KJV).

If there has never been a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (That's right there is good news by which we are saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), you are not in the faith. As an ambassador for Christ, I am committed to the word of reconciliation whether or not you believe it.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:29 PM
Predestination is based on God's foreknowledge (Romans 8:29-30 KJV) of who will believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The question is valid. It is always asked in hope tha the person being asked, has had a moment when they have. If not, this same question using God's terms can cause one to 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV (Hebrews 4:12 KJV).

If there has never been a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (That's right there is good news by which we are saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), you are not in the faith. As an ambassador for Christ, I am committed to the word of reconciliation whether or not you believe it.

A BIG AMEN!

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 04:32 PM
Predestination is based on God's foreknowledge (Romans 8:29-30 KJV) of who will believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The question is valid. It is always asked in hope tha the person being asked, has had a moment when they have. If not, this same question using God's terms can cause one to 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV (Hebrews 4:12 KJV). If there has never been a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (That's right there is good news by which we are saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), you are not in the faith. As an ambassador for Christ, I am committed to the word of reconciliation whether or not you believe it.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-those-who-fall-away-have-never-been-thoroughly-imbued-with-the-knowledge-of-christ-but-john-calvin-75-92-19.jpg

:yawn:
Calvin: 1
Heir: 0

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:37 PM
You're question has no value to it, because it's either going to follow with what you believe or what I believe. I believe that a person doesn't choose what they believe. Therefore, predestination.

We who trust in the simple Gospel of God's Grace towards humanity aren't that interested in man-made false doctrines like Calvinism. That's just the way it is and you guys are forced to live with it. You have no choice. Do you see the irony of what I just said?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:38 PM
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-those-who-fall-away-have-never-been-thoroughly-imbued-with-the-knowledge-of-christ-but-john-calvin-75-92-19.jpg

:yawn:
Calvin: 1
Heir: 0

All I see is a guy who needs to take a shave really bad.

heir
April 13th, 2016, 04:39 PM
Calvin: 1Calvin's dead

Heir: 0100% God
0% heir

The good news by which I am saved is the why of the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Without trusting the Lord believing IT, you are lost (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV).

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:40 PM
John Calvin was a wretched, wicked, and evil murderer. That's how history records him.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:40 PM
Calvin's dead
100% God
0% heir

The good news by which I am saved is the why of the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Without trusting the Lord believing IT, you are lost (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV).

AMEN!

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:42 PM
Lol

I was right :rotfl:

~Darbyist~

You sound like TeT.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:45 PM
The language I used is the very terminology Paul used in scripture to describe the Spirit sealing of those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. As it is, only AFTER hearing and believing that a believer is sealed today. Your inability to answer is on you. If there has never been a moment when you have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, you are not in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV) as the gospel of your salvation is the means by which one is saved today (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

TRUE.

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 04:45 PM
We who trust in the simple Gospel of God's Grace towards humanity aren't that interested in man-made false doctrines like Calvinism. That's just the way it is and you guys are forced to live with it. You have no choice. Do you see the irony of what I just said?

The only irony there is to be had is the gigantic intellectual folly of you all's entire philosophy at large.

You didn't choose to be a Christian. You were reaped according to God's Providence. In fact, 'choosing' and 'believing' are two very unfriendly words, as you cannot actually choose to believe anything.

That's not 'man made', that's reality. Job reminds us of who the clay is, and who is the Potter. Your free will sucks, and can't even animate on it's own that which isn't carnal. That's what all the biblical authors tell you and you all don't even realize it.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:46 PM
The only irony there is to be had is the gigantic intellectual folly of you all's entire philosophy at large.

You didn't choose to be a Christian. You were reaped according to God's Providence. In fact, 'choosing' and 'believing' are two very unfriendly words, as you cannot actually choose to believe anything.

hat's not 'man made', that's reality. Job reminds us of who the clay is, and who is the Potter. You're free will sucks, that's what all the biblical authors tell you and you all don't even realize it.

You're quite the "Wordsmith." Nah, I'm just joking with ya.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:49 PM
Crucible, use your 'Spellcheck.' That will help you to look smarter. Just trying to help you out buddy.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:57 PM
It's sort of like a game of Poker Crucible, Grace Believers have a "Royal Flush" in their hands and Calvinists are holding, one face card and a few useless numbers. Who do you think is gonna win in the end? I'm betting on the "Royal Flush."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 13th, 2016, 04:58 PM
You gonna fold?

Crucible
April 13th, 2016, 05:14 PM
It's sort of like a game of Poker Crucible, Grace Believers have a "Royal Flush" in their hands and Calvinists are holding, one face card and a few useless numbers. Who do you think is gonna win in the end? I'm betting on the "Royal Flush."

It's odd how you always pull out some wild idea that you all triumph when, like now, I just stumped you both :rotfl:

jamie
April 13th, 2016, 06:37 PM
That seems to make sense. But who gets saved? Only those who believe?


Belief must be demonstrated by faith. Christ's basic doctrines are listed in Hebrews 6:1-2.

Clete
April 14th, 2016, 05:04 PM
Belief must be demonstrated by faith. Christ's basic doctrines are listed in Hebrews 6:1-2.

I'm not a Hebrew!

jamie
April 14th, 2016, 06:16 PM
I'm not a Hebrew!


Was Jesus a Hebrew descended from David? Are you not one with Jesus? That was his prayer you know.

Predi
April 15th, 2016, 11:30 AM
Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

The Body of Christ is saved from it (Romans 5:9 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV)!

I'm asking what wrath is. It was poured out, Body of Christ is saved from it... but what is it??

Ktoyou
April 15th, 2016, 11:36 AM
I believe in salvation by Grace, through faith in Christ.

Ktoyou
April 15th, 2016, 11:39 AM
Was Jesus a Hebrew descended from David? Are you not one with Jesus? That was his prayer you know.

I know what clete mean, although I wish to thank you for being a good member.

DAN P
April 15th, 2016, 05:43 PM
How many posters on TOL consider themselves to be "Grace Gospel Believers?" A GGB is one who believes that one must hear the Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They also believe that they are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe the Holy Spirit baptizes (not by water) the true believer into the Body of Christ.

They also believe they cannot lose their 'position' in Christ. They believe faith is the only prerequisite to receiving God's Grace. Which is a free gift to those who place no faith in themselves or their actions, but ALL their faith in Christ who shed His blood and resurrected from the grave. They also believe we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" that the Apostle Paul spoke of.

They also are guaranteed eternal life in the here and now and need not worry about their Spiritual destination after leaving this world. They follow the Gospel that the "Ascended Christ" gave to the Apostle Paul. Last but not least the Grace Gospel is for the Jew as well as the Gentile today and the Gospel is for everybody, not just the so-called Elect.


Hi and count me in !!

dan p

heir
April 15th, 2016, 08:43 PM
I'm asking what wrath is. It was poured out, Body of Christ is saved from it... but what is it??
No, it will be poured out...(Psalms 2, Rev. 6) FUTURE yet the BoC is saved from it.

Predi
April 18th, 2016, 07:34 AM
No, it will be poured out...(Psalms 2, Rev. 6) FUTURE yet the BoC is saved from it.

I'm just quietly wondering how many times will I have to ask, "What is wrath" before I get an answer :-)

journey
April 18th, 2016, 03:40 PM
I'm just quietly wondering how many times will I have to ask, "What is wrath" before I get an answer :-)

The righteous anger of God and what accompanies it - judgment. Revelation 6 will give you some examples of God's Holy Judgment. The final judgment is the lake of fire (hell).

Grosnick Marowbe
April 18th, 2016, 03:44 PM
It's odd how you always pull out some wild idea that you all triumph when, like now, I just stumped you both :rotfl:

It looks as if you're having "Delusions of Grandeur."

meshak
April 18th, 2016, 05:03 PM
I believed this for many years and I was sure that's what the Bible taught. Just a few years ago I realized that if that were true I should see Paul urging everyone to preach without ceasing... I should see him worrying about fellow Christians' family members, who leave this world for eternal damnation.

Well, I found nothing of this kind in the Bible.

I don't want to argue, I was just drawn to this topic by the title and wanted to explain why I consider myself a grace believer, but my definition of grace is much shorter :)

He is preaching one liner gospel, ignoring most of Jesus' word.

Choleric
April 18th, 2016, 06:25 PM
He is preaching one liner gospel, ignoring most of Jesus' word.

Hello Meshak. I hope you are having a good day. Can you tell me what your thoughts are on the following:

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

patrick jane
April 18th, 2016, 06:39 PM
Well, I found nothing of this kind in the Bible.

I don't want to argue, I was just drawn to this topic by the title and wanted to explain why I consider myself a grace believer, but my definition of grace is much shorter :)


It doesn't get any shorter than Ephesians 2:8 KJV -

serpentdove
April 18th, 2016, 06:52 PM
http://thesaltytrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/CheapGrace-150x150.jpg

See:

The Tragedy of Cheap Repentance (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/leading-the-way/listen/the-tragedy-of-cheap-repentance-523425.html) Michael Youssef

Predi
April 19th, 2016, 05:36 AM
The righteous anger of God and what accompanies it - judgment. Revelation 6 will give you some examples of God's Holy Judgment. The final judgment is the lake of fire (hell).

Thank you for the explanation.

I believed in this for many years but now I'm done. I do not believe God can be love and anger at the same time.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 19th, 2016, 06:35 AM
Hello Meshak. I hope you are having a good day. Can you tell me what your thoughts are on the following:

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Meshak never answers questions. She's only here to preach her falsehoods. She's pretty good at it to.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 19th, 2016, 06:42 AM
Thank you for the explanation.

I believed in this for many years but now I'm done. I do not believe God can be love and anger at the same time.

You need to read the entire Bible cover to cover, in order to get a complete education on who God truly is.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 19th, 2016, 06:48 AM
God is a God of love, justice, righteousness, mercy, and forgiveness. He expects total sinless righteousness before He'll allow anyone into eternal life. We can only be righteous if we have the righteousness of Christ Himself. We receive that, once we hear the true Gospel and place our faith in Christ as our Savior, and nothing nor anything else. Not even ourselves. Meshak is one among many on TOL who believe they must EARN God's Grace, however, you cannot earn it, it comes as God's gift through our faith.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 19th, 2016, 06:56 AM
Many years ago I was wavering in my faith. I went to my Pastor at a church I had attended since 1963. (I'm 65 now) I told him about my dilemma and he asked me to explain the salvation message, which I did. He told me he had never heard anyone who could articulate the salvation message like I could. To make a long story short, I regained my faith, in my faith. The Bible says: "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

Predi
April 19th, 2016, 07:29 AM
You need to read the entire Bible cover to cover, in order to get a complete education on who God truly is.

While I do not believe everyone needs to do it in order to know God, I did it quite a few times already.

journey
April 19th, 2016, 09:33 AM
Thank you for the explanation.

I believed in this for many years but now I'm done. I do not believe God can be love and anger at the same time.

Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins. There is no greater love than this. Salvation is a free gift from God. Those who reject Him and choose instead to live in sin will face His just and Holy Wrath.

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

chrysostom
April 19th, 2016, 09:46 AM
Salvation is a free gift from God.

you have been redeemed but not saved
-you might be saved
-if you prove you can be trusted

serpentdove
April 19th, 2016, 09:56 AM
you have been redeemed but not saved
-you might be saved
-if you prove you can be trusted

:dizzy: Ga 3:11, 5:4

Caino
April 19th, 2016, 10:22 AM
We are all Sons of God, through faith we can realize this. Salvation then can be taken for granted. Stop thinking about yourself all day and do something worthwhile for someone else.

chrysostom
April 19th, 2016, 10:24 AM
We are all Sons of God,

not true
-God is Our Father only because we are part of the Body of Christ, the only Son of God

journey
April 19th, 2016, 10:25 AM
you have been redeemed but not saved
-you might be saved
-if you prove you can be trusted

I am saved - period! I don't need to prove anything to you.

chrysostom
April 19th, 2016, 10:28 AM
I am saved - period! I don't need to prove anything to you.

who did you prove it to?
-besides yourself

Caino
April 19th, 2016, 10:29 AM
not true
-God is Our Father only because we are part of the Body of Christ, the only Son of God

Speak for yourself! All men are sons of God, that was the "good news" to those oppressed by theology lawyers.

Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen."

journey
April 19th, 2016, 10:38 AM
who did you prove it to?
-besides yourself

I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else. I have a personal relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit of God lives in my heart.

Ephesians 1:12-14 KJV That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I'm not going to debate this with you. The promises of God are all that I need.

SaulToPaul
April 19th, 2016, 10:42 AM
you have been redeemed but not saved
-you might be saved
-if you prove you can be trusted

Poor lost religious soul...

journey
April 19th, 2016, 10:52 AM
Speak for yourself! All men are sons of God, that was the "good news" to those oppressed by theology lawyers.

Jesus taught us to prey "Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen."

Wrong!

Hebrews 11:6 KJV But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

chrysostom
April 19th, 2016, 10:59 AM
I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else.
you just have to prove it to God
-what you do will do that

Crucible
April 19th, 2016, 11:03 AM
Poor lost religious soul...

:rotfl:

steko
April 19th, 2016, 11:06 AM
you just have to prove it to God
-what you do will do that

No, you have to prove it to James, but GOD knows the heart.

Show who?
Show 'me', James.
Show 'thee', others.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



But, how does GOD know?


Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

chrysostom
April 19th, 2016, 11:12 AM
No, you have to prove it to James, but GOD knows the heart.

Show who?
Show 'me', James.
Show 'thee', others.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



But, how does GOD know?


Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

why do we have to waste anymore time here
-if
-God knows the heart?

steko
April 19th, 2016, 11:17 AM
why do we have to waste anymore time here
-if
-God knows the heart?

It's not a waste of time for the Holy Spirit indwelt believer to take on the ministry of reconciliation as defined by Paul:

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Nick M
April 19th, 2016, 11:26 AM
I deserve to go to hell. But I won't, so that puts me in the grace category. If only I had Jesse's will.

journey
April 19th, 2016, 08:21 PM
Hello Nick M,

I also deserve to go to hell, but God offered me a GIFT. It had to be a gift because I don't deserve anything, and I didn't earn anything. I understood many years later that God calls this "Grace". All I really deserved was punishment. I give thanks every day that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for my sins - He was buried - but he arose from the dead on the third day - and He's our Living Lord and Saviour forever. I strongly believe this, and I found out many years ago that God calls this "faith". So, I was Saved by God's Grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work of Salvation on the Cross. His precious blood has washed my sins away, and I have been set free from the curse of sin and death. God gets all of the glory, and I have nothing to brag about except Him.

Regarding Salvation, Jesus Christ did pay it all - all to Him we owe - just like the beautiful old hymn.

SaulToPaul
April 20th, 2016, 09:03 AM
I deserve to go to hell. But I won't, so that puts me in the grace category. If only I had Jesse's will.

Isn't that a Rick Springfield song from the 80s?

heir
April 20th, 2016, 11:23 AM
you have been redeemed but not saved
-you might be saved
-if you prove you can be trustedYou're spoiled Colossians 2:8 KJV

Caino
April 20th, 2016, 11:28 AM
God allows an invisible Satan creature to fool the whole world, then drowns everyone accept the Satan creature, then condemns his finite children to hell for being fooled by his Satan creature.

Its that kind of logic that nearly sent me out of the pew as a child to tell the preacher he should be arrested for being stupid!

Ktoyou
April 20th, 2016, 11:35 AM
I am a total 'saved by the blood of Christ' believer. Not some church follower like Chrys and his sorry ilk.

Lon
April 20th, 2016, 11:46 AM
God allows an invisible Satan creature to fool the whole world, then drowns everyone accept the Satan creature, then condemns his finite children to hell for being fooled by his Satan creature.
Not the whole story, is it... :Plain: I can make anything I like 'look' ridiculous. Here let's try: "You mean the U.S. sent people to the moon at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to play golf and collect rocks!!!???" See how that works? You aren't as 'brilliant' or intelligent as you think you are.


Its that kind of logic that nearly sent me out of the pew as a child to tell the preacher he should be arrested for being stupid! Sure, you'd be an arrogant ignorant brat to have done so, not 'brilliant.'

Caino
April 20th, 2016, 01:26 PM
Not the whole story, is it... :Plain: I can make anything I like 'look' ridiculous. Here let's try: "You mean the U.S. sent people to the moon at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to play golf and collect rocks!!!???" See how that works? You aren't as 'brilliant' or intelligent as you think you are.

Sure, you'd be an arrogant ignorant brat to have done so, not 'brilliant.'

You don't much like me Lon, and for one simple reason. The things I say have truth in them and that just pisses you off! But there is truth in what you say, I was a spoiled brat, I spoiled myself. But one doesn't need to be "brilliant" to see the stories of the Hebrews don't pass the laugh test.

Of coarse anyone can plainly see that IF the flood story were true, IF God really regretted creating everyone except an ancestor of the flawless people who wrote the story, then obviously he didn't destroy Satan. But that's not all. The authors of the BOR have Satan being locked up for a thousand years but then being let out again????? Maybe you were the teachers pet who allowed yourself to be spoon fed this sort of stuff without question. I'm not! Pardon me and my rebellious nature, but when someone says Jews had Chinese babies then I'm like, errrrm, NO!

And here we are back again, you would have relied on the scripture and the Pharisees to tell you what to think of Jesus.

Good boy Lon, you get a little gold star today for defending the church government.

SaulToPaul
April 20th, 2016, 01:30 PM
It was man's job to subdue all things, including Satan. Adam failed. Christ won't.

Caino
April 20th, 2016, 01:54 PM
It was man's job to subdue all things, including Satan. Adam failed. Christ won't.
In other words, you have no real answer so the snarky comment tickles the ears of the insecure for a while anyway, leading to so many unanswered questions. Like wetting your pants on a cold day, warm for a bit but then not so much.


That's one reason I like my book, it explains what happened, who Lucifer was and how he had the power and authority that he abused in "fooling the whole world". It explains who Adam and Eve were, where they came from, why they were on our evolved earth, what happened, and where they are now. It explains why Lucifer, Satan and the other evil ones were not stopped, how and when Jesus defeated them and where they are now. It explains who Jesus was/is, where he came from, what he taught, what he meant, and where he returned to.

Lon
April 20th, 2016, 01:56 PM
You don't much like me Lon, and for one simple reason. The things I say have truth in them and that just pisses you off! Er, perhaps half-right. :Plain:


But there is truth in what you say, I was a spoiled brat, I spoiled myself. But one doesn't need to be "brilliant" to see the stories of the Hebrews don't pass the laugh test.
Sure, simple minds, simple amusements, but why cast your lot that direction?


Of coarse anyone can plainly see that IF the flood story were true, IF God really regretted creating everyone except an ancestor of the flawless people who wrote the story, then obviously he didn't destroy Satan. But that's not all. The authors of the BOR have Satan being locked up for a thousand years but then being let out again????? Maybe you were the teachers pet who allowed yourself to be spoon fed this sort of stuff without question. I'm not! Pardon me and my rebellious nature, but when someone says Jews had Chinese babies then I'm like, errrrm, NO! Knee-jerk will do that 'for' you every time. Right? Not by any necessity. I too wrestled with these issues. Unlike you, I didn't jump. I can still wrestle with the text. You can't. Why? You rejected it, jumped ship/bailed, found Urantia stuff. Oddly, you strained a gnat and then proceeded to swallow a camel.


And here we are back again, you would have relied on the scripture and the Pharisees to tell you what to think of Jesus. I know this is going to surprise you, and that it is yet another point of how shallow your rejection is, but the Pharisees didn't write the Gospels or New Testament. I'll likely have to connect the dots for you in my next post. I don't know how to get you to think critically. You'll protest now :Plain:

Good boy Lon, you get a little gold star today for defending the church government.
There are two reasons I correct you. 1) because it is here for posterity and the correction was needed. 2) you need it. I may not come across as well as I'd often like, but this is, in fact, in service to you as well.

SaulToPaul
April 20th, 2016, 02:00 PM
In other words, you have no real answer so the snarky comment tickles the ears of the insecure for while anyway leading to so many unanswered questions. Like wetting your pants on a cold day, warm for a bit but then not so much.


That's one reason I like my book, it explains what happened, who Lucifer was and how he had the power and authority that he abused in "fooling the whole world". It explains who Adam and Eve were, where they came from, why they were on our evolved earth, what happened, and where they are now. It explains why Lucifer, Satan and the other evil ones were not stopped, how and when Jesus defeated them and where they are now. It explains who Jesus was/is, where he came from, what he taught, what he meant, and where he returned to.

I'm a Bible believer. I don't know anything about what you believe, or your book.
Adam's job was to subdue all things. He failed. Christ will not. That's the point of it all.

Nick M
April 20th, 2016, 02:50 PM
Hello Nick M,

I also deserve to go to hell,

The irony is all of those that say they don't deserve to go to hell are the ones that go. They reject his reconciliation. They don't need a savior. They turned over a new leaf.

Caino
April 20th, 2016, 02:55 PM
Er, perhaps half-right. :Plain:


Sure, simple minds, simple amusements, but why cast your lot that direction?

Knee-jerk will do that 'for' you every time. Right? Not by any necessity. I too wrestled with these issues. Unlike you, I didn't jump. I can still wrestle with the text. You can't. Why? You rejected it, jumped ship/bailed, found Urantia stuff. Oddly, you strained a gnat and then proceeded to swallow a camel.

I know this is going to surprise you, and that it is yet another point of how shallow your rejection is, but the Pharisees didn't write the Gospels or New Testament. I'll likely have to connect the dots for you in my next post. I don't know how to get you to think critically. You'll protest now :Plain:

There are two reasons I correct you. 1) because it is here for posterity and the correction was needed. 2) you need it. I may not come across as well as I'd often like, but this is, in fact, in service to you as well.


You didn't get something, I wasn't saying the Pharisees wrote the gospels, I meant they were the leaders of the common Jewish believer, they were the defenders of the scripture, they were the ones who were dismissive of Jesus as a mere boy who also dare to ask questions of the church leaders. Then as an adult Jesus was dismissed by the same "experts" of the law because they thought like you think. And here you accuse me of not thinking critically?????Who can be a critical thinker and buy the Bible as a document of perfection?????

Caino
April 20th, 2016, 03:04 PM
I'm a Bible believer. I don't know anything about what you believe, or your book.
Adam's job was to subdue all things. He failed. Christ will not. That's the point of it all.

It was Eve and Adams job to remain loyal to their superiors in the face of the previously fallen beast on a previously fallen, populated world.

Earlier I pointed out what seems to me to be a reasonable observation and question, according to the authors of the Bible God destroyed all the wicked people on the earth, except he kept Satan????? And the earth got all wicked again real fast. So, silly me, I would have though he should have gotten rid of Satan while he was at it, after all, he did get cross with the beast and curse him to????

I have an answer, the flood never happened, these questions wouldn't arise in spoiled brat Caino and God wouldn't be portrayed in this way. We wouldn't have this conflict.

Nick M
April 20th, 2016, 03:15 PM
Isn't that a Rick Springfield song from the 80s?

Sozo wrote lyrics to the Springfield song based on TOL poster and sanctimonious hypocrite (http://www.yourdictionary.com/hypocrite) troublemaker Jesse Morrell.

journey
April 20th, 2016, 03:26 PM
It was Eve and Adams job to remain loyal to their superiors in the face of the previously fallen beast on a previously fallen, populated world.

Earlier I pointed out what seems to me to be a reasonable observation and question, according to the authors of the Bible God destroyed all the wicked people on the earth, except he kept Satan????? And the earth got all wicked again real fast. So, silly me, I would have though he should have gotten rid of Satan while he was at it, after all, he did get cross with the beast and curse him to????

I have an answer, the flood never happened, these questions wouldn't arise in spoiled brat Caino and God wouldn't be portrayed in this way. We wouldn't have this conflict.

Isaiah 55:6-11 KJV Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Lon
April 20th, 2016, 03:40 PM
You didn't get something, I wasn't saying the Pharisees wrote the gospels, I meant they were the leaders of the common Jewish believer, they were the defenders of the scripture, they were the ones who were dismissive of Jesus as a mere boy who also dare to ask questions of the church leaders. Then as an adult Jesus was dismissed by the same "experts" of the law because they thought like you think. Again, you have Apostles writing 'about' Pharisees, not but quotes. Your assumptions comes from the UB, but I'm telling you why those few folks who wrote it typed up a bunch of pages about what they (wrongly) thought.


And here you accuse me of not thinking critically?????Who can be a critical thinker and buy the Bible as a document of perfection????? Which came first, the UB or the scripture? The BoM or the Scriptures? Is it likely that God would allow 2000 years of what goes against Him? :nono: Again, think 'critically,' Caino. TOL gives Christians and opportunity for us to talk about Christ and our love for Him, yet again. It is 'our' website by Christian association of the owner and others who run this site. The Doctrinal Statement of TOL is Christian. Of course we are going to respond as Christians to steer you correctly and defend against assaults. Again, read the TOL Christian statement. This IS a Christian website.

Caino
April 23rd, 2016, 05:55 AM
Hi Gronsnick.

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 10:54 AM
edited

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 10:57 AM
This is ridiculous- acting as if Calvinists do not believe in grace and the Gospel.

It just shows you all's incompetence in theology. You will find the brightest among Protestantism hold to predestination theology- you're not even Protestant if you believe otherwise :rolleyes:

There's only one Gospel, and it's TULIP you extravagant morons :)

WOW, have I been confused ( not ) since I trusted , repented, and placed my faith in Jesus I have believed, and continue to do so, that the GOSPEL ( good news ) is that as a sinner I deserved eternal hell;however, God in His infinite love and mercy pardoned and forgave me through the imputed righteousness of Christ Jesus.

Calvinism is not the gospel it is the perversion of what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

You should spend some time studying Romans chapter 10 it is possible that Almighty God will have mercy and shine the light of His glorious Son Jesus into your heart.

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 11:06 AM
WOW, have I been confused ( not ) since I trusted , repented, and placed my faith in Jesus I have believed, and continue to do so, that the GOSPEL ( good news ) is that as a sinner I deserved eternal hell;however, God in His infinite love and mercy pardoned and forgave me through the imputed righteousness of Christ Jesus.

Calvinism is not the gospel it is the perversion of what Jesus and the Apostles taught.


You just proved that your understanding of Calvinism is entirely non-existent :rolleyes:

Calvinism gives sinners hope, while others give saints hope. Sitting there talking about imputed righteousness.. John Calvin was a co-founder of the imputed righteousness doctrine :doh:

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 11:08 AM
It was man's job to subdue all things, including Satan. Adam failed. Christ won't.

Good post except Christ DID NOT FAIL!

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 11:10 AM
You just proved that your understanding of Calvinism is entirely non-existent :rolleyes:

Calvinism gives sinners hope, while others give saints hope. Sitting there talking about imputed righteousness.. John Calvin was a co-founder of the imputed righteousness doctrine :doh:


Where is there hope in Calvinism except for those who have deluded themselves into believing they are elect ?

If you were of those not elected , which is contrary to what Jesus and the Apostles taught, what hope would YOU have ?

FYI, imputed righteousness is in scripture. Calvin did NOT invent nor found or co-found anything that was not already there.

jamie
April 23rd, 2016, 11:10 AM
So, silly me, I would have though he should have gotten rid of Satan while he was at it, after all, he did get cross with the beast and curse him to????


Satan serves a purpose for God. He will be dealt with when the time comes. God is not in a rush to judgment.

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 11:12 AM
Amen ! EXACTLY.

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 11:28 AM
Where is there hope in Calvinism except for those who have deluded themselves into believing they are elect ?

Faith is a primary indication of being of the elect. You act like it's a randomly generated machine that's prone to saving Hitler and condemning St. Nicholas o something.

You obviously just don't have a mind for comprehending predestination, judging by your argumentation.


FYI, imputed righteousness is in scripture. Calvin did NOT invent nor found or co-found anything that was not already there.

Christianity had no concept of 'Imputed Righteousness' before the Protestant Reformation. What was held was called a doctrine of 'Infusion'.

So you can sit there and hide behind what you just said, but it doesn't change the fact that Calvin was a co-founder of the doctrine.
Deal with it, and brush up your perception before foolishly attacking historical people whose knowledge and theological ability is frankly superior to yours and most of you anti-Calvinists altogether.

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 11:34 AM
Faith is a primary indication of being of the elect. You act like it's a randomly generated machine that's prone to saving Hitler and condemning St. Nicholas o something.

You obviously just don't have a mind for comprehending predestination, judging by your argumentation.



Christianity had no concept of 'Imputed Righteousness' before the Protestant Reformation. What was held was called a doctrine of 'Infusion'.

So you can sit there and hide behind what you just said, but it doesn't change the fact that Calvin was a co-founder of the doctrine.
Deal with it, and brush up your perception before foolishly attacking historical people whose knowledge and theological ability is frankly superior to yours and most of you anti-Calvinists altogether.

In the end NO ONE can hide behind IGNORING scripture and creating their own little corner of doctrine as Calvinists have done.

Again I suggest you read and study Romans chapter 10 could be that God in His infinite mercy and compassion will shine the glorious light of Jesus into your heart without the garbage of what other men thought , believed, or taught.

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 11:44 AM
In the end NO ONE can hide behind IGNORING scripture and creating their own little corner of doctrine as Calvinists have done.

Again I suggest you read and study Romans chapter 10 could be that God in His infinite mercy and compassion will shine the glorious light of Jesus into your heart without the garbage of what other men thought , believed, or taught.

Reformed doctrine is laced throughout the entirety of scripture, you simply choose to cherry pick. If anything, it's you who ignores scripture.

You ultimately believe that everyone is the elect. That is where your ideology fails, as there is a distinction made in simply utilizing the word 'elect'. Taking pieces of scripture to mean something other than what they mean results in bad theology- collapsing the Bible in on itself is pretty much how you all tackle Calvinism.

A fundamental fact is shown all through scripture:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

See the message there, entwined throughout? You dismiss it with your cherry picking.

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 12:02 PM
Reformed doctrine is laced throughout the entirety of scripture, you simply choose to cherry pick. If anything, it's you who ignores scripture.

You ultimately believe that everyone is the elect. That is where your ideology fails, as there is a distinction made in simply utilizing the word 'elect'. Taking pieces of scripture to mean something other than what they mean results in bad theology- collapsing the Bible in on itself is pretty much how you all tackle Calvinism.

A fundamental fact is shown all through scripture:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?[/I]

See the message there, entwined throughout? You dismiss it with your cherry picking.

Which ALL ignores what Jesus and the Apostles taught !

Jesus taught that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. Then along comes those who do not like what He taught and changes it to whosoever is elected.

The jailer when asked what must I do to be saved was told by the Apostle to confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in his heart that God raised him him the dead. Then along comes Calvinism and says NO you have to have been elected and you have no part it is all done by God, which of course contradicts what Jesus and the Apostles taught,

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jesus taught that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. Then along comes those who do not like what He taught and changes it to whosoever is elected.


:doh:
The believers are the predestined elect

You know what, this conversation is pointless. Bye :wave2:

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 12:04 PM
:doh:
The believers are the predestined elect

You know what, this conversation is pointless. Bye :wave2:

Believing is what YOU do NOT what God did for you.

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 12:07 PM
Believing is what YOU do NOT what God did for you.

You have no control over what you believe. It is one of the great intellectual sins of many Christians today in thinking they chose faith in God.

It was God's providence that brought you to faith.

Crucible
April 23rd, 2016, 12:12 PM
God rolls up on you like a scroll- Moses is a perfect example. God chose him- otherwise he would have remained an Egyptian pagan.

People think this is somehow different because we have a mass produced canon.

dodge
April 23rd, 2016, 12:13 PM
You have no control over what you believe. It is one of the great intellectual sins of many Christians today in thinking they chose faith in God.

It's not even true of everyday, worldly things that you choose what you believe of it all.

It was God's providence that brought you to faith.

You just said scripture is a lie. Scripture says that faith comes by hearing God's word.

Scripture also says that God stretched out his hand to a stiff necked people that would not listen to Him. God made an effort and they chose to NOT listen to God.

You have control over what you believe and accept as truth or what you reject as lies and that is why scripture says to beware of false teachers , otherwise what difference would false teachers make ?

Tambora
April 23rd, 2016, 12:45 PM
You have no control over what you believe. Yes I do.

Tambora
April 23rd, 2016, 12:45 PM
You just said scripture is a lie. Scripture says that faith comes by hearing God's word.

Scripture also says that God stretched out his hand to a stiff necked people that would not listen to Him. God made an effort and they chose to NOT listen to God.

You have control over what you believe and accept as truth or what you reject as lies and that is why scripture says to beware of false teachers , otherwise what difference would false teachers make ?
Good points.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 23rd, 2016, 02:20 PM
Crucible is fighting a losing battle. He's a poor soul.

Nick M
April 23rd, 2016, 04:19 PM
Calvinists are outside the faith. My proof is what comes out of their mouth. Or in their posts on TOL.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 23rd, 2016, 04:32 PM
Calvinists are outside the faith. My proof is what comes out of their mouth. Or in their posts on TOL.

I tend to agree with you. They change the character and intent of the TRUE God of the Bible in order to make Him fit their false doctrine.

Nick M
April 23rd, 2016, 05:42 PM
Calvinists tell people God created them to send them to hell and they deserve it. Wickedness and a cold heart doesn't begin to describe a jerk who would say and believe such things.

Epoisses
April 23rd, 2016, 05:45 PM
Calvinists tell people God created them to send them to hell and they deserve it. Wickedness and a cold heart doesn't begin to describe a jerk who would say and believe such things.

Very true. Calvinism is more of an attack on the character of God himself than the gospel. The picture of a loving father who sends his only begotten son to die for the sins of the world is changed into an unfeeling tyrant who creates lost souls to live lives of futility and be damned eternally.

Nick M
April 23rd, 2016, 06:41 PM
Well, I believe God Almighty is running the universe, down to every detail, according to His predetermined will and good pleasure.
Do you disagree?


God never rejected the reprobate according to His foreknowledge of their actions. God rejects reprobates according to His will.God formed all men, either for dishonor or honor, according to His willful purposes and good pleasure.
To reject this truth is disbelief and a rejection of Sovereign God Himself.

It is those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life that are reprobate and who will deservedly suffer hellfire

None of the Calvinists here disagree with her. I post this because she is back.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 01:40 PM
Yes I do.

The reason you are a Christian, and not an atheist, Muslim, or Hindu, is due to variables outside of your control. You believe in God because God's providence.

The intellectual dishonesty is strong with you all- deluding yourself with things you know aren't true is what you all apparently excel at :rolleyes:

Tambora
April 24th, 2016, 01:47 PM
The reason you are a Christian, and not an atheist, Muslim, or Hindu, is due to variables outside of your control. No it isn't.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 01:52 PM
No it isn't.

Amen. Crucible is not part of the Body of Christ in my opinion.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 01:55 PM
The reason you are a Christian, and not an atheist, Muslim, or Hindu, is due to variables outside of your control. You believe in God because God's providence.

The intellectual dishonesty is strong with you all- deluding yourself with things you know aren't true is what you all apparently excel at :rolleyes:

You crack me up. :rotfl: You're throwing everthing against the wall hoping something will stick? Please, don't stop amusing me. :crackup:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Very true. Calvinism is more of an attack on the character of God himself than the gospel. The picture of a loving father who sends his only begotten son to die for the sins of the world is changed into an unfeeling tyrant who creates lost souls to live lives of futility and be damned eternally.

Well said.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 02:00 PM
No it isn't.

According to what?

All you've said is 'I choose', and then 'nuh uh'.

I pretty much assume at this point you just don't have any sort of rebuke- don't worry, there isn't such a thing anyway. You didn't choose to be a Christian anymore then some Palestinian kid became Muslim.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:00 PM
You have no control over what you believe. It is one of the great intellectual sins of many Christians today in thinking they chose faith in God.

It was God's providence that brought you to faith.

And, I must add, you're following a false gospel. Notice the small g? That's no typo.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:02 PM
:doh:
The believers are the predestined elect

You know what, this conversation is pointless. Bye :wave2:

So are ALL your posts!

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 02:02 PM
You crack me up. :rotfl: You're throwing everthing against the wall hoping something will stick? Please, don't stop amusing me. :crackup:

You all really need to stop taking what I've stated about you all and trying to put it on me. I'm not throwing 'everything hoping it will stick'.

I squashed the lie that you choose to believe anything, with an inevitable fact. If you want to lie to yourself, then go right ahead.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:07 PM
Faith is a primary indication of being of the elect. You act like it's a randomly generated machine that's prone to saving Hitler and condemning St. Nicholas o something.



:rotfl:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:08 PM
The only irony there is to be had is the gigantic intellectual folly of you all's entire philosophy at large.

You didn't choose to be a Christian. You were reaped according to God's Providence. In fact, 'choosing' and 'believing' are two very unfriendly words, as you cannot actually choose to believe anything.

That's not 'man made', that's reality. Job reminds us of who the clay is, and who is the Potter. Your free will sucks, and can't even animate on it's own that which isn't carnal. That's what all the biblical authors tell you and you all don't even realize it.

:rotfl:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:10 PM
CALVIN'S FOLLY!

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:12 PM
Listening to a "Crazed Calvinist" like Crucible is like stepping on a rusty nail with your bare foot.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 02:13 PM
Good points.

There was no point. You all will never make a point on this because it's impossible- you didn't choose to be a Christian anymore than you chose to believe anything else. People choose based on experience and necessity- you all disgrace others for not being Christian, out of a lie that they had a choice anymore than you did.

That's why people don't like you- you think it's because of your beliefs, but it's really because you tell people to do something that ultimately you would be unable to do yourself. Can you choose to be a Muslim?

:rolleyes:

dodge
April 24th, 2016, 02:16 PM
There was no point. You all will never make a point on this because it's impossible- you didn't choose to be a Christian anymore than you chose to believe the sky is blue.

The points were scriptural and it is YOUR fault if you ignore God's word.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:16 PM
Calvinists follow the teachings of a wicked and foul man. Calvin is up there with the great tyrants of history. He was responsible for the murder of several people who disagreed with him. He even had time to kill supposed witches of his time. He was called: "The Pope of Geneva." He was utterly evil.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:18 PM
Look up the history of the "Pope of Geneva" John Calvin and find out for yourself.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 02:20 PM
Listening to a "Crazed Calvinist" like Crucible is like stepping on a rusty nail with your bare foot.

You all are the one's who are crazy. Crazy people deal in delusions that they know aren't true, and that's what you all do.

And
You suck at insults.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:20 PM
I don't imagine Calvinists want people to know Calvin's history? They try to rationalize his wickedness.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:22 PM
You all are the one's who are crazy. Crazy people deal in delusions that they know aren't true, and that's what you all do.

And
You suck at insults.

My pleasure, you're welcome. However, you still can't deny John Calvin's history.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:23 PM
Crucible=:rotfl:

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:28 PM
MOST "Intellectually honest people" agree with ME.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 02:33 PM
The reason you are a Christian, and not an atheist, Muslim, or Hindu, is due to variables outside of your control. You believe in God because God's providence.

The intellectual dishonesty is strong with you all- deluding yourself with things you know aren't true is what you all apparently excel at :rolleyes:

This is so . .

Persons who are alive, who had no part in their coming into this world, deny the reality that they are only saved, if saved, by the grace of God; not due to any choices, actions, or willingness on their part.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:37 PM
This is so . .

Persons who are alive, who had no part in their coming into this world, deny the reality that they are only saved, if saved, by the grace of God; not due to any choices, actions, or willingness on their part.

First of all did you have a nice vacation? Second of all, you follow a, shall we say, "False gospel" with a very small "g". No offense, however, I speak the truth.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 02:39 PM
None of the Calvinists here disagree with her. I post this because she is back.

If you so disagree with me, why don't you explain to all of us why multitudes die in unrepentant sin.

How do you explain it, when you seem to think all men are innocent and they do not deserve to die?

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 02:39 PM
First of all did you have a nice vacation? Second of all, you follow a, shall we say, "False gospel" with a very small "g". No offence, however, I speak the truth.

You do not recognize Truth when it smacks you in the face . . .

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Calvinism is more dangerous to the True Gospel in that it, "sounds" like it's closely related to the True Gospel to those who have no Spiritual discernment. However, to those of us who follow the "Grace Gospel" we can see a huge difference.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:46 PM
You do not recognize Truth when it smacks you in the face . . .

You can't see truth when it's presented to you in the Holy written word of God, The Bible.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:48 PM
1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 02:52 PM
When God says: ALL, He means ALL. Not just Nang and the other so-called Elect.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 02:53 PM
1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

So tell us, why are all men not saved?

Not even a majority of mankind has been saved since creation, so how come?

Do you really think the unwillingness of man is greater than the grace of God, and that sinners have the power to nullify the cross work of Jesus Christ?

I believe that every soul for whom Christ died, will be regenerated and saved in their lifetimes, by the grace and power of God's will. 100% of those for whom Christ shed His blood, will share in the inheritance of His Kingdom . . . none will be lost . . . none.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:05 PM
So tell us, why are all men not saved?

Not even a majority of mankind has been saved since creation, so how come?

Do you really think the unwillingness of man is greater than the grace of God, and that sinners have the power to nullify the cross work of Jesus Christ?

I believe that every soul for whom Christ died, will be regenerated and saved in their lifetimes, by the grace and power of God's will. 100% of those for whom Christ shed His blood, will share in the inheritance of His Kingdom . . . none will be lost . . . none.

The problem is, you Calvinists don't believe in the free-will of humanity. If one hears the "True Gospel" and rejects it, that's not what God desires. However, God has given us ALL free will to choose His Grace.
Otherwise, we are Robot/puppets and slaves to the will of God.

journey
April 24th, 2016, 03:05 PM
God's Word makes it extremely plain that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of the entire world. The Gospel of the Grace of God is for and to ALL people, and literally anyone can accept the Gift of God and be Saved. Don't let it confuse you that God knew before the foundation of the world who would and who would not accept His Gift. Further, this does not hint that God forces anyone to accept or deny Him.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Robert Pate
April 24th, 2016, 03:08 PM
Calvinist interpretation of the word grace: "God saved me and damned everybody else to hell".

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:10 PM
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:12 PM
Calvinist interpretation of the word grace: "God saved me and damned everybody else to hell".

That's what kind of arrogance the "Grace Gospel Believers" are facing with the Calvinist believers.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:12 PM
God's Word makes it extremely plain that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of the entire world. The Gospel of the Grace of God is for and to ALL people, and literally anyone can accept the Gift of God and be Saved. Don't let it confuse you that God knew before the foundation of the world who would and who would not accept His Gift. Further, this does not hint that God forces anyone to accept or deny Him.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

So why does God not save all men? Why will there be a Judgment Day and the second death unto hellfire?

Is the unwillingness in men to believe, greater than the will and grace of God to save?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:13 PM
God's Word makes it extremely plain that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of the entire world. The Gospel of the Grace of God is for and to ALL people, and literally anyone can accept the Gift of God and be Saved. Don't let it confuse you that God knew before the foundation of the world who would and who would not accept His Gift. Further, this does not hint that God forces anyone to accept or deny Him.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Excellent post.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:15 PM
So why does God not save all men? Why will there be a Judgment Day and the second death unto hellfire?

Is the unwillingness in men to believe, greater than the will and grace of God to save?

You have many questions, however, NO valid answers.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:16 PM
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

If, as you say, God wills that all men find the strait and narrow way (belief in the gospel), why do so few find it and not all?

Is the desire to follow the wide path to hell stronger in men, than the power and grace pf God?

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:18 PM
You have many questions, however, NO valid answers.

I am giving you the chance to give a Gospel answer . . . but you are dodging my questions.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:20 PM
You have many questions, however, NO valid answers.

Nick posted my answers. You just do not like them . . .

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:24 PM
Christ died for the sins of ALL humanity. Revelation 20:12 states: "And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds."

Why do you think Revelation mentions: "according to their deeds" instead of their sins? Because Christ took care of the sin question at the cross 2000 years ago. However, only those who hear the "True Gospel" and place their faith in Christ as their Savior will reap the benefits.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:26 PM
Nick posted my answers. You just do not like them . . .

I didn't read them. However, I know what you believe. You trust in your false doctrines.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:28 PM
If, as you say, God wills that all men find the strait and narrow way (belief in the gospel), why do so few find it and not all?

Is the desire to follow the wide path to hell stronger in men, than the power and grace pf God?

First of all, learn to use "spell check."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:30 PM
If, as you say, God wills that all men find the strait and narrow way (belief in the gospel), why do so few find it and not all?

Is the desire to follow the wide path to hell stronger in men, than the power and grace pf God?

Because of the free will of man.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 03:30 PM
Man falls according to what God's providence ordains, but he also falls by his own fault.

This is the part of Calvinism that answers the much abused sentiment of Christ dying for the 'whole world'. That's the leading argument that many on here love to repeat, and repeat, and repeat.

The path is narrow, and many will come and fail- unless God makes mistakes, or Christ didn't pay the needed amount, election is the gospel.

What many Christians do is preach this easy gospel of grace but right after talk more about who and who isn't saved, or the million of things that will land you in Hell.

Election is the only remedy to your convenient and flawed ideology.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:34 PM
Christ died for the sins of ALL humanity. Revelation 20:12 states: "And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds."

Why do you think Revelation mentions: "according to their deeds" instead of their sins?

Christian actions manifest holy sanctification and faith.



Because Christ took care of the sin question at the cross 2000 years ago.

But not every name is written in the Book of Life.



However, only those who hear the "True Gospel" and place their faith in Christ as their Savior will reap the benefits.

Right. My argument.

All the others are named in "other books" and are condemned to the second death.

How come, if Jesus Christ supposedly removed all the sins of all men?

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:35 PM
Man falls according to what God's providence ordains, but he also falls by his own fault.

This is the part of Calvinism that answers the much abused sentiment of Christ dying for the 'whole world'. That's the leading argument that many on here love to repeat, and repeat, and repeat.

The path is narrow, and many will come and fail- unless God makes mistakes, or Christ didn't pay the needed amount, election is the gospel.

You just don't have any "Spiritual discernment" and you lack the ability to "Rightly Divide" the word of God. You have many shortcomings. The problem is, everyone can see them.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:42 PM
Because of the free will of man.

So your answer is:

The will of man is stronger and more determinative than the will of God?

That is called "humanism", which is post-modern thought; not Christianity.

Nang
April 24th, 2016, 03:46 PM
Christians, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, submit their wills to the will of the Father, just like Jesus did in His flesh.

Christians are willing to obey the will of God, and subordinate their own human wills to His . . as Jesus did in His flesh.

Christians rest in the wisdom, grace, and providence of God as they exercise their human wills ("secondary moral agency"), to the glory of God.

Crucible
April 24th, 2016, 03:47 PM
You just don't have any "Spiritual discernment" and you lack the ability to "Rightly Divide" the word of God. You have many shortcomings. The problem is, everyone can see them.

I don't really care for your disoensationalist lingo. You all only discern what is convenient.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 03:58 PM
Christian actions manifest holy sanctification and faith.




But not every name is written in the Book of Life.




Right. My argument.

All the others are named in "other books" and are condemned to the second death.

How come, if Jesus Christ supposedly removed all the sins of all men?

God's forgiveness of ALL sins was paid for and that act is implemented to all those who hear the True Gospel and place their faith in Christ. If one chooses to reject God's Grace they will not inherit eternal life. There will not be anyone cast into the Lake of Fire because of their sin. They will be judged by their deeds and their rejection of God's free gift of eternal life through faith in the death, resurrection, and Diety of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 04:05 PM
I don't really care for your disoensationalist lingo. You all only discern what is convenient.

Do you really believe your opinion destroys where I've placed my faith? If you believe that, then you think of you self more highly than you ought. Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 04:06 PM
I don't really care for your disoensationalist lingo. You all only discern what is convenient.

Your spelling is atrocious.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 04:08 PM
So your answer is:

The will of man is stronger and more determinative than the will of God?

That is called "humanism", which is post-modern thought; not Christianity.

No, it's the way God created us.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 04:12 PM
Nang is arrogant. Crucible is a goof. No offense it's just they way they are.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 04:15 PM
I'll be back friends.

Nanja
April 24th, 2016, 05:36 PM
Do you really believe your opinion destroys where I've placed my faith? If you believe that, then you think of you self more highly than you ought. Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."



Rom. 12:3 is only describing the Faith of every Elect man, but not the wicked [non-elect] 2 Thes. 3:2 KJV.


Man by nature does not have the innate ability to exercise his own faith / believing to become saved.


But Faith is discriminately given by God John 3:27 to all the Elect Seed Gal. 3:16 in New Birth Gal. 5:22,
whose sins Christ Jesus took upon Himself Heb. 2:16 KJV.

~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
April 24th, 2016, 05:41 PM
Rom. 12:3 is only describing the Faith of every Elect man, but not the wicked [non-elect] 2 Thes. 3:2 KJV.


Man by nature does not have the innate ability to exercise his own faith / believing to become saved.


But Faith is discriminately given by God John 3:27 to all the Elect Seed Gal. 3:16 in New Birth Gal. 5:22,

whose sins Christ Jesus took upon Himself Heb. 2:16 KJV.

~~~~~

You and B57 are Ultra, hyper-Calvinist Fanatics, that's why the more conservative Calvinists keep you at a distance.

Nanja
April 24th, 2016, 05:51 PM
You and B57 are Ultra, hyper-Calvinist Fanatics, that's why the more conservative Calvinists keep you at a distance.

Obviously, you are Lost 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV.

God has not chosen you to Belief of the Truth as He has His Elect Children 2 Thes. 2:13!

~~~~~

Nanja
April 24th, 2016, 05:59 PM
You and B57 are Ultra, hyper-Calvinist Fanatics, that's why the more conservative Calvinists keep you at a distance.

If they do it's because, like you, they are also Lost!

~~~~~