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Robert Pate
March 31st, 2016, 12:04 PM
If you are not secure in your salvation this scripture can be disturbing.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leads to destruction and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, that leads to life and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13, 14.

The broad way is the way of religion. Do good works, obey the commandments, be a good person and God will accept you into heaven. There are multitudes of people that think they will be saved if they do those things, it is one of the devils biggest lies and millions believe it. There are probably more unsaved religious people than people that are not religious, yet have simple faith in Christ. The way is broad so that it can accommodate the religious billions that are on their way to hell.

The strait gate is Jesus Christ. If one is to be saved they must enter through the strait gate. The strait gate leads to the narrow way which leads to life. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man can come to the Father, but by me" John 14:6. Many will read that and will believe that they must be like Christ to be saved. The devil is quick to deceive. This is why there are few that find it. They are blinded by religion. Salvation is not given to those who are trying to be like Christ by their good works or obedience to the law.

Jesus said, "Not everyone that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven (the will of the Father is that you believe upon his Son Jesus Christ). Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will say unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:21-23.

These are the religious that are trying to work their way into heaven by their good works. "Lord, Lord, didn't we?" They thought that it was all about them and their good works. Religion is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ. It is the way that seems right unto a man, but the end is destruction. In the Gospel it is Jesus that defeats sin, death and the devil and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. In the Gospel it is Jesus that atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. In the Gospel it is Jesus that God accepts into heaven in our name and on our behalf. If anyone goes to heaven it will have to be on his merit and not ours.

Robert Pate
April 2nd, 2016, 09:22 AM
Only about 10% of the people on this Forum are born again Christians. The rest are just religious.

Paul wrote, "Isaiah cried concerning concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved" Romans 9:27.

Is it God's plan that only a remnant be saved? No, its God's plan that all should be saved. Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The problem is that people don't want to receive what God has done for them in Jesus Christ. They want to be saved their way which includes predestinationism, works, and obedience to the law, all of which is nothing more than religion. Only a few are willing to come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

patrick jane
April 2nd, 2016, 09:44 AM
Only about 10% of the people on this Forum are born again Christians. The rest are just religious.

Paul wrote, "Isaiah cried concerning concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved" Romans 9:27.

Is it God's plan that only a remnant be saved? No, its God's plan that all should be saved. Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The problem is that people don't want to receive what God has done for them in Jesus Christ. They want to be saved their way which includes predestinationism, works, and obedience to the law, all of which is nothing more than religion. Only a few are willing to come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Very true Pate, most people don't accept the free gift of salvation from God, it sounds too easy. It is !!

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:05 AM
If you are not secure in your salvation this scripture can be disturbing.


You should fear. You are being convicted by the Holy Spirit. You preach we cannot obey.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:06 AM
Very true Pate, most people don't accept the free gift of salvation from God, it sounds too easy. It is !!

It is free means you do not have to clean yourself.
It does NOT mean you do not have to obey.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:10 AM
Only about 10% of the people on this Forum are born again Christians. The rest are just religious.

Paul wrote, "Isaiah cried concerning concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved" Romans 9:27.

Is it God's plan that only a remnant be saved? No, its God's plan that all should be saved. Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The problem is that people don't want to receive what God has done for them in Jesus Christ. They want to be saved their way which includes predestinationism, works, and obedience to the law, all of which is nothing more than religion. Only a few are willing to come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Many of the Jews did not want to humble themselves and come to Jesus to clean them of their sins. They wanted to keep getting circumcised, and adhere to a dietary law. They also wanted to keep observing special days and they did not recognize Jesus as the Sabbath Rest. They would also like to build another temple to sacrifice animals; or, the new kind of Jew doesn't even acknowledge that the sacrifice of animals was commanded by God.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:14 AM
If you are not secure in your salvation this scripture can be disturbing.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leads to destruction and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, that leads to life and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13, 14.

The broad way is the way of religion. Do good works, obey the commandments, be a good person and God will accept you into heaven. There are multitudes of people that think they will be saved if they do those things, it is one of the devils biggest lies and millions believe it. There are probably more unsaved religious people than people that are not religious, yet have simple faith in Christ. The way is broad so that it can accommodate the religious billions that are on their way to hell.

The strait gate is Jesus Christ. If one is to be saved they must enter through the strait gate. The strait gate leads to the narrow way which leads to life. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man can come to the Father, but by me" John 14:6. Many will read that and will believe that they must be like Christ to be saved. The devil is quick to deceive. This is why there are few that find it. They are blinded by religion. Salvation is not given to those who are trying to be like Christ by their good works or obedience to the law.

Jesus said, "Not everyone that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven (the will of the Father is that you believe upon his Son Jesus Christ). Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will say unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:21-23.

These are the religious that are trying to work their way into heaven by their good works. "Lord, Lord, didn't we?" They thought that it was all about them and their good works. Religion is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ. It is the way that seems right unto a man, but the end is destruction. In the Gospel it is Jesus that defeats sin, death and the devil and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. In the Gospel it is Jesus that atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. In the Gospel it is Jesus that God accepts into heaven in our name and on our behalf. If anyone goes to heaven it will have to be on his merit and not ours.

You do not have any understanding.

You make obeying Jesus a dirty word.

The scriptures about those who say, "Lord, didn't we...", those are the people who did not repent of their sins.

You preach against repenting of sins.

You have been ensnared by the devil.

Can we reason together?

Tell me, how is it ever bad to obey Jesus?

Tell me, how do you ever compare NO MORE PHYSICAL CIRCUMCISION and no more ANIMAL SACRIFICES with NO MORE OBEY GOD AT ALL?

Think for yourself.

Robert Pate
April 2nd, 2016, 10:38 AM
You do not have any understanding.

You make obeying Jesus a dirty word.

The scriptures about those who say, "Lord, didn't we...", those are the people who did not repent of their sins.

You preach against repenting of sins.

You have been ensnared by the devil.

Can we reason together?

Tell me, how is it ever bad to obey Jesus?

Tell me, how do you ever compare NO MORE PHYSICAL CIRCUMCISION and no more ANIMAL SACRIFICES with NO MORE OBEY GOD AT ALL?

Think for yourself.


You are under the law and will be judged by the law.

As for me. I am already perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

What you are striving to do in your flesh is already mine in Jesus Christ.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:41 AM
You are under the law and will be judged by the law.

As for me. I am already perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

What you are striving to do in your flesh is already mine in Jesus Christ.

What don't you get about their being no favoritism and those who do evil will be repaid for it?

Robert Pate
April 2nd, 2016, 01:35 PM
What don't you get about their being no favoritism and those who do evil will be repaid for it?

There is no judgment for those who are "In Christ".

God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

If you want to be holy you would do well to join the Catholic church. They think that God will accept their righteousness. Big shock for them in the judgment.

jamie
April 2nd, 2016, 02:35 PM
There is no judgment for those who are "In Christ".



For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 03:19 PM
There is no judgment for those who are "In Christ".

God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

If you want to be holy you would do well to join the Catholic church. They think that God will accept their righteousness. Big shock for them in the judgment.

The Catholic church does not obey God.

We have to obey God.

There is no favoritism.

What don't you get about that?

There is no favoritism.

You do not even listen to Paul.

whatever67
April 2nd, 2016, 03:22 PM
If"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leads to destruction and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, that leads to life and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13, 14.

The broad way is the way of religion. Do good works, obey the commandments, be a good person and God will accept you into heaven. rs.

This makes no sense at all. No one can say he loves God and yet disobey all his Commandments. In fact Jesus said the opposite. When someone asked Him What must I do to be saved, Jesus said to obey the Commandments. Then He said if you do that, you still lack one thing: give all you have to the poor and follow Him.

Robert Pate
April 2nd, 2016, 03:48 PM
This makes no sense at all. No one can say he loves God and yet disobey all his Commandments. In fact Jesus said the opposite. When someone asked Him What must I do to be saved, Jesus said to obey the Commandments. Then He said if you do that, you still lack one thing: give all you have to the poor and follow Him.


When we come to Christ as repentant sinners to receive God's great free gift of salvation, God seals us with the Holy Spirit and places us in Christ. God now sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. As far as God is concerned we have met all of the demands of his holy law because we are in Christ.

The rich young ruler was self righteous when he said, "All of these things I have done from my youth". Jesus was trying to show him that he was a sinner and needed a savior, so he gave him more law. "Go sell all that you have and give it to the poor". He failed to follow the law.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 04:17 PM
When we come to Christ as repentant sinners to receive God's great free gift of salvation, God seals us with the Holy Spirit and places us in Christ. God now sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. As far as God is concerned we have met all of the demands of his holy law because we are in Christ.

The rich young ruler was self righteous when he said, "All of these things I have done from my youth". Jesus was trying to show him that he was a sinner and needed a savior, so he gave him more law. "Go sell all that you have and give it to the poor". He failed to follow the law.

Jesus was showing him he loved his wealth more than God.

You are ensnared by the devil.

Robert Pate
April 3rd, 2016, 09:08 AM
Jesus was showing him he loved his wealth more than God.

You are ensnared by the devil.

No one can follow or obey the law.

The law is the very nature and character of God. Jesus obeyed the law for us and in doing so justified us, Romans 4:5 also Romans 3:26.

"To him that does NO WORKS but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (Sinners) his faith (not his works or obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

God's Truth
April 3rd, 2016, 09:25 AM
No one can follow or obey the law.

The law is the very nature and character of God. Jesus obeyed the law for us and in doing so justified us, Romans 4:5 also Romans 3:26.

"To him that does NO WORKS but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (Sinners) his faith (not his works or obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
Jesus taught the NEW LAW, the New Covenant.

Tell me, where in the Old Covenant does it say come to Jesus to have your sins forgiven.

jamie
April 3rd, 2016, 09:50 AM
"Go sell all that you have and give it to the poor". He failed to follow the law.


The young man violated the first commandment by putting money ahead of God. (Exodus 20:3)

jamie
April 3rd, 2016, 09:53 AM
"To him that does NO WORKS but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (Sinners) his faith (not his works or obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.


Salvation is a gift by Jesus' grace. The purpose of salvation is to do the good works for which we are saved. (Ephesians 2:10)

God's Truth
April 3rd, 2016, 09:57 AM
Salvation is a gift by Jesus' grace. The purpose of salvation is to do the good works for which we are saved. (Ephesians 2:10)

There are works we must do when we want to be saved, and then there are other kinds of works to do after we are saved; however, we must obey Jesus' teachings to be saved. Jesus says to humble yourself, to repent, to have a forgiving heart, and to call on him.

If you have a heart that does not want to help a brother who is hungry, then you do not yet have a heart to be saved.

If you have a heart that does not humble itself, to be ready to do all that Jesus says, then you are not ready to be saved.

jamie
April 3rd, 2016, 09:59 AM
There are works we must do when we want to be saved, and then there are other kinds of works to do after we are saved; however, we must obey Jesus' teachings to be saved. Jesus says to humble yourself, to repent, to have a forgiving heart, and to call on him.

If you have a heart that does not want to help a brother who is hungry, then you do not yet have a heart to be saved.

If you have a heart that does not humble itself, to be ready to do all that Jesus says, then you are not ready to be saved.


:doh: A given.

God's Truth
April 3rd, 2016, 10:03 AM
:doh: A given.

Why do you say doh to me? Not everyone knows what you know.

Tambora
April 3rd, 2016, 10:07 AM
You are under the law and will be judged by the law.

As for me. I am already perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

What you are striving to do in your flesh is already mine in Jesus Christ.Amen.

God's Truth
April 3rd, 2016, 10:37 AM
Amen.

There is a new law.

God's Truth
April 3rd, 2016, 10:39 AM
There is a new law, it is the old law with some changes. There are changes because Jesus fulfilled all the things which were merely teaching tools, a shadow, of him.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.


The law was changed, fulfilled, and made new. New Testament means New Covenant. When a Covenant is made, there are guidelines that must be followed.

Robert Pate
April 3rd, 2016, 04:26 PM
There is a new law, it is the old law with some changes. There are changes because Jesus fulfilled all the things which were merely teaching tools, a shadow, of him.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.


The law was changed, fulfilled, and made new. New Testament means New Covenant. When a Covenant is made, there are guidelines that must be followed.

Someone apparently had enough of your blasphemy and banned you.

Jesus is the New Covenant. The only thing required for salvation is faith in Christ.

All of the work of salvation has ALREADY been done by Christ. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

jamie
April 3rd, 2016, 06:21 PM
All of the work of salvation has ALREADY been done by Christ.


Did Paul tell people to reverently work out their own salvation?

Of course he did.

Epoisses
April 3rd, 2016, 10:47 PM
Salvation is a gift by Jesus' grace. The purpose of salvation is to do the good works for which we are saved. (Ephesians 2:10)

False. The works of the Spirit that were foreordained are far different than the works of the law.

Epoisses
April 3rd, 2016, 10:47 PM
Did Paul tell people to reverently work out their own salvation?

Of course he did.

For it is God that works in us to do of his good pleasure. Legalist!!!

Grosnick Marowbe
April 3rd, 2016, 11:56 PM
Only about 10% of the people on this Forum are born again Christians. The rest are just religious.

Paul wrote, "Isaiah cried concerning concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved" Romans 9:27.

Is it God's plan that only a remnant be saved? No, its God's plan that all should be saved. Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The problem is that people don't want to receive what God has done for them in Jesus Christ. They want to be saved their way which includes predestinationism, works, and obedience to the law, all of which is nothing more than religion. Only a few are willing to come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

I would say the percentage is lower than 10%.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 3rd, 2016, 11:57 PM
Someone apparently had enough of your blasphemy and banned you.

Jesus is the New Covenant. The only thing required for salvation is faith in Christ.

All of the work of salvation has ALREADY been done by Christ. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Yep!

Grosnick Marowbe
April 4th, 2016, 12:00 AM
Why do you say doh to me? Not everyone knows what you know.

You're one of many that are preaching against the Grace Gospel. Therefore, it's a just thing for you to be banned!

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 12:35 AM
Very true Pate, most people don't accept the free gift of salvation from God, it sounds too easy. It is !!

Easy? Believing in all that scripture speaks of is pretty impossible, I'd say. We merely guess and hope.

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 12:56 AM
Believe in a God who apparently hates divorce but never rebukes Solomon for his 700 wives and 300 concubines?
(The rebuke was for marrying foreign women)

Robert Pate
April 4th, 2016, 11:49 AM
Believe in a God who apparently hates divorce but never rebukes Solomon for his 700 wives and 300 concubines?
(The rebuke was for marrying foreign women)

Things were different under the law in the Old Testament era.

The Bible says very little about how many wives a man should have, Except in 1 Timothy 3:2.

whatever67
April 4th, 2016, 01:26 PM
Things were different under the law in the Old Testament era.

The Bible says very little about how many wives a man should have, Except in 1 Timothy 3:2.

you cannot go strictly by the Bible when following Jesus. There is a lot that is not there. For example, how is one to deal with such things as in vitro fertilization? stem cell research? if you go strictly by the Bible you would say, none of those things is mentioned in the Bible and then think you have a license to do whatever you want. But in vitro involves destroying human life, which is against the 10 Commandments

and there are other things not mentioned in the Bible. God's word is found outside the bible also. when i pray, i get answers about my personal life, which is one of the many things not mentioned

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 01:42 PM
Things were different under the law in the Old Testament era.

The Bible says very little about how many wives a man should have, Except in 1 Timothy 3:2.

Really? Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Romans 7:1-3
Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 01:54 PM
Deut 17
16The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” 17He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 01:57 PM
God hates divorce and yet David, a man after God's own heart, was an adulterer in his polygamy.

1 Kings 15:5
For David had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord and had not failed to keep any of the Lord’s commands all the days of his life—except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Baffling.

meshak
April 4th, 2016, 02:01 PM
God hates divorce and yet David, a man after God's own heart, was an adulterer in his polygamy.

1 Kings 15:5
For David had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord and had not failed to keep any of the Lord’s commands all the days of his life—except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Baffling.

How do you reconcile this dilemma?

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 02:20 PM
How do you reconcile this dilemma?

I can't...or at least it is baffling why there is no explanation for such an important point of trust in God.

It is possible that David was making the best of a bad situation...

One the most astonishing incongruities is the Song of Solomon...supposedly a beautiful story about love - until you reach chapter 6 verse 8 and realise that he already has 60 queens and 80 concubines.

Love? Really?

Adultery, for sure.

jamie
April 4th, 2016, 02:46 PM
The article on adultery in the Jewish Encyclopedia says, "But the ancient Jewish law, as well as other systems of law which grew out of a patriarchal state of society, does not recognize the husband's infidelity to his marriage vows as a crime."

jamie
April 4th, 2016, 02:49 PM
1 Kings 15:5
For David had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord and had not failed to keep any of the Lord’s commands all the days of his life—except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.


David was held accountable for the death of Uriah and this was a violation of the stipulation against murder.

meshak
April 4th, 2016, 02:58 PM
you cannot go strictly by the Bible when following Jesus. There is a lot that is not there. For example, how is one to deal with such things as in vitro fertilization? stem cell research? if you go strictly by the Bible you would say, none of those things is mentioned in the Bible and then think you have a license to do whatever you want. But in vitro involves destroying human life, which is against the 10 Commandments

and there are other things not mentioned in the Bible. God's word is found outside the bible also. when i pray, i get answers about my personal life, which is one of the many things not mentioned

There are many accounts in the OT hard to reconcile with Jesus' teachings.

Robert Pate
April 4th, 2016, 04:44 PM
I will probably catch a lot of flak over this.

When A Christian is "In Christ" he is free from the law, Romans 6:14. God sees him as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

Where there is no law, there can be no sin, Romans 6:18. It is not possible in God's eyes for a Christian to sin. Bring it on, I have lots of scripture.

jamie
April 4th, 2016, 05:37 PM
Where there is no law, there can be no sin, Romans 6:18. It is not possible in God's eyes for a Christian to sin.


What is the penalty for sin?

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 11:29 PM
The article on adultery in the Jewish Encyclopedia says, "But the ancient Jewish law, as well as other systems of law which grew out of a patriarchal state of society, does not recognize the husband's infidelity to his marriage vows as a crime."

So Romans 7:1-3 is underlining this? Paul did not cite the woman as an example by chance?

Wherefore then did God say: thou shalt not commit adultery?

What of Jesus' - Except for marital infidelity, if a anyone puts a away his wife and marries another woman then he commits adultery (Mat 19)? Surely, Jesus is saying that the man is STILL considered married in such a case? For example, say a man divorces his wife because he no longer finds her attractive. Then, in Gods eyes, they are still married. So if he marries another, it is considered adultery. In effect, God considers him married to TWO people...polygyny - or polygamy.

Therefore polygamy is adultery.

There is provision in the OT law for marrying another, but only in special circumstances.

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 11:32 PM
There are many accounts in the OT hard to reconcile with Jesus' teachings.

Indeed - so we can forgive the sceptic. And it is right to test scripture.

Acyts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Sonnet
April 4th, 2016, 11:54 PM
Mat. 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

A married man looking lustfully at another woman commits adultery according to Jesus - so a married man who marries another woman does the same.

It remains baffling to me why God seemingly has not explicitly dealt with this. It is possible that He has though. Earlier in Matthew 18, Jesus makes an astonishing assertion:


Matthew 19:3-9
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

So, in effect, Jesus is averring that the law contains elements that are NOT God's ideal. Deuteronomy 24:1 speaks of divorce.

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 12:19 AM
David was held accountable for the death of Uriah and this was a violation of the stipulation against murder.

Nathan, speaking to David, said otherwise:

2 Samuel 12:9-10
Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 01:46 AM
No one can follow or obey the law.

The law is the very nature and character of God. Jesus obeyed the law for us and in doing so justified us, Romans 4:5 also Romans 3:26.

"To him that does NO WORKS but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (Sinners) his faith (not his works or obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

True. Nevertheless, the FRUIT of a true believer , one would assume, would be observance (on the whole) of God's commandments

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 01:48 AM
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 01:56 AM
1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 05:15 AM
Nathan, speaking to David, said otherwise:

2 Samuel 12:9-10
Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’

Violence is against God's will, so even though there are so many wars in the OT, it should not be used to justify our actively endorsing or joining the military.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 05:17 AM
True. Nevertheless, the FRUIT of a true believer , one would assume, would be observance (on the whole) of God's commandments

We should encourage one another to keep commandments. We should not make excuses just because we are not perfect.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 05:22 AM
Sonnet,

God bless you for your insight.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 05:27 AM
1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Jesus also says to be perfect.

These verses should make us humble, and strive to watch out for our conduct in everyone thing we do.

Totton Linnet
April 5th, 2016, 05:48 AM
Violence is against God's will, so even though there are so many wars in the OT, it should not be used to justify our actively endorsing or joining the military.

Or living in a home provided by the military or by living on a military pension

Totton Linnet
April 5th, 2016, 05:50 AM
We should encourage one another to keep commandments. We should not make excuses just because we are not perfect.

First we obey God's command to be saved then we can think about His other commands

Totton Linnet
April 5th, 2016, 05:52 AM
Jesus also says to be perfect.

These verses should make us humble, and strive to watch out for our conduct in everyone thing we do.

Your first act of "obedience" was to break wedlock

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 07:55 AM
Nathan, speaking to David, said otherwise:

2 Samuel 12:9-10
Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’


You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Murder.

Once Uriah was dead Bathsheba was no longer married which is the reason David had him killed.

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 08:00 AM
What of Jesus' - Except for marital infidelity, if a anyone puts a away his wife and marries another woman then he commits adultery (Mat 19)?


The article on adultery in the Jewish Encyclopedia provides a different interpretation.

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 08:17 AM
Violence is against God's will, so even though there are so many wars in the OT, it should not be used to justify our actively endorsing or joining the military.


Jesus endorses the principle of loving your neighbor AS yourself, not instead OF yourself. Our closest neighbors are our family.

Jesus died for God's family and we should be willing, if we are able, to do the same for our family. Or lie a coward in our grave.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 08:35 AM
Jesus endorses the principle of loving your neighbor AS yourself, not instead OF yourself. Our closest neighbors are our family.

Jesus died for God's family and we should be willing, if we are able, to do the same for our family. Or lie a coward in our grave.

You are dismissing the fact that Jesus says to imitate Him. Jesus gave a good example how to love our enemy with words and deeds. He did not kill no one in his stay on earth.

Why do you dismiss this simple fact?

jamie
April 5th, 2016, 09:55 AM
You are dismissing the fact that Jesus says to imitate Him. Jesus gave a good example how to love our enemy with words and deeds. He did not kill no one in his stay on earth.


Jesus did not need to kill anyone during his life as a human and not everyone in the military has killed anyone.

The purpose of our military is not to murder people, and those who do are court-martialed.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 01:00 PM
Jesus did not need to kill anyone during his life as a human and not everyone in the military has killed anyone.

Jesus did not kill anyone because He does not endorse violent act.

Jesus did not do it and why do you have to need to kill to justify your own desire?

and don't forget, those persecuted faithful ones did not kill anyone for self-defense, either.

there are all kinds of admonishment about violence from NT faithful ones you are disregarding too.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 01:05 PM
Jamie,

there are many faithful ones understand that Jesus' followers should be pacifist. And Jesus practiced pacifism.

Mennonites are one of them.

It is not so hard to understand that Jesus do not endorse any kind of violence.

meshak
April 5th, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jamie,

here is more about pacifism.

Here is what Jesus has to say:Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

and some more:

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
John 18:36

And His faithful disciple harmonize with Jesus' word:

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian 10:4-5)

Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

II Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."

Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 01:47 PM
You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Murder.

Once Uriah was dead Bathsheba was no longer married which is the reason David had him killed.

Nevertheless, David was guilty of adultery. Surely you are not denying this?

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 01:48 PM
The article on adultery in the Jewish Encyclopedia provides a different interpretation.

It is one of the ten commandments.

whatever67
April 5th, 2016, 01:52 PM
Jesus endorses the principle of loving your neighbor AS yourself, not instead OF yourself. Our closest neighbors are our family.

Jesus died for God's family and we should be willing, if we are able, to do the same for our family. Or lie a coward in our grave.

thank u for that. And then there is that psg in the OT that says he who won't take care of his own is worse than an unbeliever

whatever67
April 5th, 2016, 01:53 PM
It is one of the ten commandments.

do you think someone who has committed adultery and been married several times should be president?


:(

whatever67
April 5th, 2016, 01:55 PM
Jamie,

here is more about pacifism.

Here is what Jesus has to say:Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
"

so you dont think we should try to get rid of the jihadists?

you dont see the war on them as trying to protect innocent humans, many of whom are your brothers/sisters in Christ??

:think:

whatever67
April 5th, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jamie,

there are many faithful ones understand that Jesus' followers should be pacifist. And Jesus practiced pacifism.

Mennonites are one of them.

It is not so hard to understand that Jesus do not endorse any kind of violence.

Then why do we as a society condone baby murder?

oh, that's right, we are no longer a Christian nation

Sonnet
April 5th, 2016, 02:11 PM
do you think someone who has committed adultery and been married several times should be president?


:(

Can't answer that.

Robert Pate
April 5th, 2016, 06:22 PM
do you think someone who has committed adultery and been married several times should be president?


:(

Why not? He should be a good negotiator by now.

Sonnet
April 6th, 2016, 12:09 AM
The article on adultery in the Jewish Encyclopedia says, "But the ancient Jewish law, as well as other systems of law which grew out of a patriarchal state of society, does not recognize the husband's infidelity to his marriage vows as a crime."

Leviticus 20:10
10“ ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Bociferous
April 6th, 2016, 06:09 AM
Jesus spoke primarily in metaphors. Why do you think the Matthew 7 passages are talking about eternal salvation rather than a temporal state of affairs?

Bociferous
April 6th, 2016, 06:11 AM
Quote Originally Posted by whatever67 View Post



do you think someone who has committed adultery and been married several times should be president?




Why not? He should be a good negotiator by now.
Now that's funny. You do have a sense of humor!

Robert Pate
April 6th, 2016, 07:47 AM
Leviticus 20:10
10“ ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Jesus elevated that law and spiritualized it.

So that now if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery, Luke 5:27, 28.

jamie
April 6th, 2016, 08:15 AM
Leviticus 20:10
10“ ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.


By whom, you?

Tambora
April 6th, 2016, 10:53 AM
Violence is against God's will, No it's not.


so even though there are so many wars in the OT, Yep, there were many.
Many of which God Himself commanded His people to participate in order to destroy their enemies.


it should not be used to justify our actively endorsing or joining the military.God commanded Israel to have an army.

And there is no place that Jesus told anyone not to be a soldier or be in the military.
That's your own pet peeve, not Jesus'.

Tambora
April 6th, 2016, 11:00 AM
do you think someone who has committed adultery and been married several times should be president?


:(David was an adulterer and had several wives.
God made him king.

Robert Pate
April 6th, 2016, 12:46 PM
David was an adulterer and had several wives.
God made him king.

There are consequences to sin.

David paid dearly for his sinful mistakes.

Tambora
April 6th, 2016, 12:57 PM
There are consequences to sin.

David paid dearly for his sinful mistakes.Sure, but stripping him of his kingship due to murder and adultery was not one of the consequences.

So, to suggest that an adulterer should never be allowed to be president is a bit iffy.
Just saying that it was not a deal breaker with God.

Sonnet
April 6th, 2016, 02:08 PM
There are consequences to sin.

David paid dearly for his sinful mistakes.

Not for taking many wives he didn't.

2 Sam 12:7-12

Nanja
April 6th, 2016, 02:38 PM
There are consequences to sin.

David paid dearly for his sinful mistakes.


As with all the Elect of God, David was Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-5; Rom. 8:33. No sin was ever imputed to Him Rom. 4:8 but was laid on His Surety Heb. 7:22 Christ Jesus in his behalf Is. 53:6.

However, whom the Lord Loves He does chasten:

Heb. 12:6-8
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
April 6th, 2016, 04:18 PM
As with all the Elect of God, David was Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-5; Rom. 8:33. No sin was ever imputed to Him Rom. 4:8 but was laid on His Surety Heb. 7:22 Christ Jesus in his behalf Is. 53:6.

However, whom the Lord Loves He does chasten:

Heb. 12:6-8
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

~~~~~

You don't understand Ephesians 1:4.

"He has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"

Who is the "US"? The us is the whole human race. God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34.

Jesus is the corporate head of the human race. He is the first born of all of creation, Colossians 1:15.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. All things are done by him and through him, Colossians 1:16.

You have not been predestinated.

Nanja
April 6th, 2016, 05:37 PM
You don't understand Ephesians 1:4.

"He has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"

Who is the "US"? The us is the whole human race. God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34.

Jesus is the corporate head of the human race. He is the first born of all of creation, Colossians 1:15.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. All things are done by him and through him, Colossians 1:16.

You have not been predestinated.



Surely you are very consistent, Pate: Consistently in error, and an Enemy of the True Gospel of Christ.

Paul addressed the Saints of God Eph. 1:1, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, which is comprised of only a remnant of all humanity which shall be Saved Rom. 11:5.

For many are the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39 which have been condemned to the lake of fire Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8; Jude 1:4!


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


So don't worry yourself about my eternal destiny.

But be concerned for yourself!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
April 7th, 2016, 08:35 AM
Surely you are very consistent, Pate: Consistently in error, and an Enemy of the True Gospel of Christ.

Paul addressed the Saints of God Eph. 1:1, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, which is comprised of only a remnant of all humanity which shall be Saved Rom. 11:5.

For many are the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39 which have been condemned to the lake of fire Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8; Jude 1:4!


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


So don't worry yourself about my eternal destiny.

But be concerned for yourself!

~~~~~

Calvinism is not the Gospel. If anything Calvinism is anti-Gospel and anti- Christ.

You are lost because you have never called on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

You do not have the Holy Spirit because you cannot receive truth.

Tambora
April 7th, 2016, 09:23 AM
Jesus did not kill anyone because He does not endorse violent act.

Jesus does not teach anything in opposition of His Father.
God does endorse violence, many many many times.

Totton Linnet
April 7th, 2016, 01:20 PM
Jesu's rule is

He that taketh up the sword shall likewise perish by the sword

Robert Pate
April 8th, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jesus does not teach anything in opposition of His Father.
God does endorse violence, many many many times.

Only to get rid of the wicked.