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ClimateSanity
March 28th, 2016, 09:20 AM
Show where Jesus preached what Paul preached in regard to salvation. Musterion had asked this of GT in another thread. I believe it deserves a thread all its own. This is the list of things Paul preached regarding our salvation. Musty provided it. Can anyone show from what Jesus taught any of these things? You must make your case.

(a) both Jews and Gentiles could now be saved on the same basis of grace through faith

(b) without any works to get or stay saved

(c) completely apart from national Israel

(d) with Jews and Gentiles becoming co-equal members of Christ's Body

(e) with a heavenly (not earthly) destiny,

(f) who are impossible to ever be separated from Him.

GT provided these two verses. Can anyone show how these verses teach anything on that list?
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

themuzicman
March 28th, 2016, 11:08 AM
Many people miss the point of John 3, especially with all the Calvinists around, and yet Jesus speaks to the distinction between Old and New Covenants pretty clearly, here:


John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

This idea of "born again" or "born from above" is one that we need to see from Nicodemus' perspective.

You see, election in the Old Covenant was through natural birth. The Old Covenant was adopted for the people of that generation and their children. Thus, one born a Jew was a member of the Old Covenant by birth. And this was Nicodemus' thinking: He already had entrance into the kingdom of heaven because he was born as a part of Israel, God's chosen people.

And Jesus shakes up his world, by saying that he had to be "born again." Clearly Jesus isn't speaking of a literal birth (as Nicodemus asks), but rather Jesus is speaking of a new election for the new covenant.

And Jesus goes on to describe the differences in the election for the covenants, including the fact that you couldn't tell who was "born of the spirit" by looking at them. It wasn't going to be a racial thing, either.

Only when we get to John 3:16 do we see what this new election is, and the new election is "whoever believes." We see the same thing again in John 6:29, 40, 45, and 47. And in John 20:31. What is needed to receive eternal life is faith. One must believe in the one who was sent.

And this is consistent across Jesus' and Paul's teachings.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 11:39 AM
Muz,

Are those who died in faith under the old covenant, according to your view, excluded from the Kingdom of God?

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 12:30 PM
Of course,

Galatians 1:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 12:50 PM
Show where Jesus preached what Paul preached in regard to salvation. Musterion had asked this of GT in another thread. I believe it deserves a thread all its own. This is the list of things Paul preached regarding our salvation. Musty provided it. Can anyone show from what Jesus taught any of these things? You must make your case.

(a) both Jews and Gentiles could now be saved on the same basis of grace through faith
God has always shown Grace (favor) to people of faith.


(b) without any works to get or stay saved
Neither Paul nor Jesus taught that.


(c) completely apart from national Israel
Neither Paul nor Jesus taught that.


(d) with Jews and Gentiles becoming co-equal members of Christ's Body
Jesus did not teach about the salvation of the Gentiles because He came a couple of years prior to the end of the 490 years prophesied for the children of Israel to repent (Daniel 9:24-27)
When that time ran out, Peter was sent to Cornelius (Acts 10:1-11:18).


(e) with a heavenly (not earthly) destiny,
Neither Paul nor Jesus taught that.


(f) who are impossible to ever be separated from Him.
Neither Paul nor Jesus taught that.

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 12:58 PM
Show where Jesus preached what Paul preached in regard to salvation. Musterion had asked this of GT in another thread. I believe it deserves a thread all its own. This is the list of things Paul preached regarding our salvation. Musty provided it. Can anyone show from what Jesus taught any of these things? You must make your case.

(a) both Jews and Gentiles could now be saved on the same basis of grace through faith



Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



(b)without any works to get or stay saved

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42
And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.



(c) completely apart from national Israel

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



(d) with Jews and Gentiles becoming co-equal members of Christ's Body

Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


(e) with a heavenly (not earthly) destiny,

John 14:2 |
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



(f) who are impossible to ever be separated from Him.


John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

themuzicman
March 28th, 2016, 12:59 PM
Muz,

Are those who died in faith under the old covenant, according to your view, excluded from the Kingdom of God?

This is better phrased, "Those who died believing in God before the establishing of the New Covenant entered the Kingdom of God." Whether they were under the Old Covenant or not is irrelevant.

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 01:16 PM
Of course,

Galatians 1:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Not a revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

patrick jane
March 28th, 2016, 01:19 PM
Not a revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Look who just rolled outta bed :chuckle:

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 01:19 PM
This is better phrased, "Those who died believing in God before the establishing of the New Covenant entered the Kingdom of God." Whether they were under the Old Covenant or not is irrelevant.

So they were born again?

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 01:20 PM
This is better phrased, "Those who died believing in God before the establishing of the New Covenant entered the Kingdom of God." Whether they were under the Old Covenant or not is irrelevant.

I'd say this guy got in. :)

Luke 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 01:23 PM
So they were born again?

Not if they died first.

The kingdom is now in both realms.

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 01:29 PM
Not a revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Disagree, Even though Christ is the revelation, He still gave the teaching to Paul through revelation.

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 01:31 PM
Disagree, Even though Christ is the revelation, He still gave the teaching to Paul through revelation.

That's why yer still asleep.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 01:35 PM
Not if they died first.

The kingdom is now in both realms.

Far out.

themuzicman
March 28th, 2016, 01:39 PM
So they were born again?

Wrong question. The question is whether they received eternal life, and the answer to that question is "yes."

Jesus' discussion of "born again" is more specific to the discussion with Nicodemus.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jesus' discussion of "born again" is more specific to the discussion with Nicodemus.

What does that mean?
ye must be born again to see the Kingdom sounds like an absolute

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 01:44 PM
That's why yer still asleep.

You don't believe that Paul received the Gospel he preached by revelation?

themuzicman
March 28th, 2016, 01:44 PM
What does that mean?
ye must be born again to see the Kingdom sounds like an absolute

That's because you're ignoring the context. Who is Jesus speaking to? What does "born again" mean to him? What specifically about Nicodemus may make this statement limited to him or to some group like him?

Until you answer those questions, you haven't even begun to understand it.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 01:47 PM
That's because you're ignoring the context. Who is Jesus speaking to? What does "born again" mean to him? What specifically about Nicodemus may make this statement limited to him or to some group like him?

Until you answer those questions, you haven't even begun to understand it.

Nicodemus, being a master of Israel, should know he was referring to Ezekiel 37...and resurrection.
Same old Muz...still condescending when others ask questions to try to understand your view.

themuzicman
March 28th, 2016, 01:49 PM
Nicodemus, being a master of Israel, should know he was referring to Ezekiel 37...and resurrection.
Same old Muz...still condescending when others ask questions to try to understand your view.

LOL.. Nice try. I notice that every time someone says something you can't actually answer, you turn to personal insults and the like.

Jesus is referring to the idea that one is "elect" in Israel through natural birth. You can find this in Deuteronomy, when Israel accepts the covenant for themselves are their children.

Nicodemus, then, would be hearing that this election is insufficient. Jesus, after explaining a bit, tells us that this "born again" for Nicodemus is "whoever believes."

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 01:51 PM
John 3:5-6
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Are we currently flesh or spirit?

Being born of the spirit happens at the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 02:03 PM
Being born of the spirit happens at the resurrection of the dead.


:up:

Correctamundo.

Nicodemus should have known Ezekiel 37.

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 02:24 PM
Far out.

Yes, y'all are pretty far out there.

Obey by seeking and get understanding.

LaHaye has lead you Madists away from Christ and the kingdom.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 02:29 PM
What does that mean?
ye must be born again to see the Kingdom sounds like an absolute



This Bunch of PHONY Christians Can't be More Stupid Than THEY ARE!!!

"Born Again" A-N-D The "Resurrection" IS THE SAME EVENT - The Same Thing!!!
I-F You have been Resurrected, You have been Born Again!!

Born Again A-N-D --- O-R Resurrected IS THE ONLY Way Into Christ!!
One IS Born Again INTO CHRIST!!!
One IS Resurrected INTO CHRIST!!!

G---O---D!!!!! --- How Can These Phony -- What EVER They Are, Call Themselves Christians???????? --- WWWOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!

(((((((((( Romans 3:10-14 KJV ))))))))))!!!!!!!


NEVER Mind!!!! ((((( G-O-N-E )))))!!!!!!!!!!

((( NOOOO B-O-D-YYYYY!!!! ))) to the IDIOTS!!!!! -- 032816

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 02:32 PM
Yes, y'all are pretty far out there.

Obey by seeking and get understanding.

LaHaye has lead you Madists away from Christ and the kingdom.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

:chuckle:

LaHaye isn't MAD.

SaulToPaul
March 28th, 2016, 02:33 PM
"Born Again" A-N-D The "Resurrection" IS THE SAME EVENT - The Same Thing!!!
I-F You have been Resurrected, You have been Born Again!!



I agree.

Paul, SaulTo
032816

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 02:40 PM
You don't believe that Paul received the Gospel he preached by revelation?

Why do you ask what you've already been told?

1Mind1Spirit
March 28th, 2016, 02:42 PM
:chuckle:

LaHaye isn't MAD.

LOL, he's a mad hatter alright.:kookoo:

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 02:57 PM
I agree.

Paul, SaulTo
032816

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 02:59 PM
I agree.

Paul, SaulTo
032816


You're Still WRONG!!!!!!!!

The ONLY Way One can be "Born Again" // "Resurrected" I-S BY """Baptism"""!!!! - Baptism IS The "Death Burial & (( RESURRECTION ))"!!!!!! One Must DIE Before he Can be Resurrected; - ""DIE"" TO THE WORLD - ""REPENT"" and Be BAPTIZED / Resurrected!!!!!!!!!!!!! Die and Repent is the Same!!!

ME --- 032816!!!!!!!!!

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 03:18 PM
Why do you ask what you've already been told?

Because you are in error and I just want to make sure that you were.

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 03:29 PM
You're Still WRONG!!!!!!!!

The ONLY Way One can be "Born Again" // "Resurrected" I-S BY """Baptism"""!!!! - Baptism IS The "Death Burial & (( RESURRECTION ))"!!!!!! One Must DIE Before he Can be Resurrected; - ""DIE"" TO THE WORLD - ""REPENT"" and Be BAPTIZED / Resurrected!!!!!!!!!!!!! Die and Repent is the Same!!!

ME --- 032816!!!!!!!!!

Where does Paul teach that?

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 03:35 PM
Where does Paul teach that?

Letsargue's name is Paul, so he taught that right here. :chuckle:

Or you can look at Romans 6 and assume that the resurrection is not really the raising of the dead but is only a "spiritual" resurrection that happens during baptism.

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 03:37 PM
Letsargue's name is Paul, so he taught that right here. :chuckle:

Or you can look at Romans 6 and assume that the resurrection is not really the raising of the dead but is only a "spiritual" resurrection that happens during baptism.

One is not born again by baptism.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 03:44 PM
One is not born again by baptism.
Some denominations teach that a person is born again when they accept Jesus as their savior, but this is not supported in scripture.

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 03:51 PM
I've asked this before and have never once gotten a straight answer from non-MADs.

If I believe the Gospel of the grace of God, trusting only Christ's death, burial and resurrection for my forgiveness and justification -- but I completely reject participation in any form of water ritual and refuse to ever submit to one -- am I saved?

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 03:53 PM
I've asked this before and have never once gotten a straight answer from non-MADs.

If I believe the Gospel of the grace of God, trusting only Christ's death, burial and resurrection for my forgiveness and justification -- but I completely reject participation in any form of water ritual and refuse to ever submit to one -- am I saved?

What answer would you like to hear?

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 03:54 PM
What answer would you like to hear?

See? You won't answer it but want to play games instead.

What I'd like to hear is your dead honest answer before God, but I know you won't give it.

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 03:59 PM
Where does Paul teach that?


(( Acts 2:38 KJV ))-- 38: (( Repent and be Baptized )) ((( ""E-V-E-R-Y -- O-N-E"" )) of you for the "Remission of Sins" And you will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost!!!! -- That's Dying AND Being Resurrected!!!!!

ME!!! --- 032816!!

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 04:00 PM
I've asked this before and have never once gotten a straight answer from non-MADs.

If I believe the Gospel of the grace of God, trusting only Christ's death, burial and resurrection for my forgiveness and justification -- but I completely reject participation in any form of water ritual and refuse to ever submit to one -- am I saved?



What answer would you like to hear?


See? You won't answer it but want to play games instead.
The way you asked the question made me believe you don't really want to hear the truth.


What I'd like to hear is your dead honest answer before God, but I know you won't give it.
Here is the dead honest answer: No, but your not being saved has nothing to do with you rejecting baptism.

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 04:04 PM
Where does Paul teach that?(( Acts 2:38 KJV ))--

You must be high.

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 04:06 PM
Here is the dead honest answer: No, but your not being saved has nothing to do with you rejecting baptism.

That's more like it.

Forget water baptism for a minute. I just told you what I, in fact, do believe.

Have I believed a false gospel that can't save anyone?

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 04:07 PM
Some denominations teach that a person is born again when they accept Jesus as their savior, but this is not supported in scripture.

Sure it is;

Ephesians 2:8-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 04:08 PM
(( Acts 2:38 KJV ))-- 38: (( Repent and be Baptized )) ((( ""E-V-E-R-Y -- O-N-E"" )) of you for the "Remission of Sins" And you will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost!!!! -- That's Dying AND Being Resurrected!!!!!

ME!!! --- 032816!!You are a little confused. That is Peter, not Paul.

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 04:09 PM
Some denominations teach that a person is born again when they accept Jesus as their savior, but this is not supported in scripture.


Baptism IS The "Death, Burial and Resurrection" --- God says that what IT IS!!!!!!!! Of Course, none of YOU Believe God AT ALLLLL!!!!!!

ME -- 032816!!!!!

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 04:10 PM
You are a little confused. That is Peter, not Paul.


G-O-D!!!!!!!!

ME

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 04:12 PM
You must be high.


A--L--L OF You Just STAY Where I PUT YOU!!!!!!!!!

ME!!!!!!

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 04:13 PM
Sure it is;

Ephesians 2:8-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Your verse says nothing about being born again.
Try again.

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 04:14 PM
A--L--L OF You Just STAY Where I PUT YOU!!!!!!!!!

Or what.

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 04:17 PM
That's more like it.

Forget water baptism for a minute. I just told you what I, in fact, do believe.

Have I believed a false gospel that can't save anyone?


God says WATER Baptism!!!!!! --- (( John 3:5 KJV ))!!!!!!!!

ME!!!!

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 04:22 PM
Or what.


You ALL Are IN HELL Already, God Said You ALL Were!!!!!

((((((( FORGET IT!!!! ))))))))!!!!!!! You ALL Can't Speak the Word of God ANYHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST Stay THERE!!!!!!!!! --- I CAN'T HELP FOOLS!!!!!

ME!!!!!!!

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 04:37 PM
A--L--L OF You Just STAY Where I PUT YOU!!!!!!!!!

ME!!!!!!

What me worry? You that's who.!!!!

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 04:39 PM
You're ALL Are IN HELL All Ready, God Said You ALL Were!!!!!

((((((( FOTGET IT!!!! ))))))))!!!!!!! You ALL Can't Speak the Word of God ANYHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST Stay THERE!!!!!!!!! --- I CAN'Y HELP FOOLS!!!!!

ME!!!!!!!

Seems they let you out of that mental institution way too soon? :confused:

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 04:42 PM
You're Still WRONG!!!!!!!!

The ONLY Way One can be "Born Again" // "Resurrected" I-S BY """Baptism"""!!!! - Baptism IS The "Death Burial & (( RESURRECTION ))"!!!!!! One Must DIE Before he Can be Resurrected; - ""DIE"" TO THE WORLD - ""REPENT"" and Be BAPTIZED / Resurrected!!!!!!!!!!!!! Die and Repent is the Same!!!

ME --- 032816!!!!!!!!!

You need to join the "Nuts of the month club."

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 04:43 PM
That's more like it.

Forget water baptism for a minute. I just told you what I, in fact, do believe.

Have I believed a false gospel that can't save anyone?

Do you believe salvation is something that happened in the past?


Romans 13:11
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 Peter 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If salvation is really something that comes with Christ when He appears the second time, then why do you claim that you have already been saved?

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 04:45 PM
Some denominations teach that a person is born again when they accept Jesus as their savior, but this is not supported in scripture.

I'm concerned about you?

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 04:47 PM
You're ALL Are IN HELL All Ready, God Said You ALL Were!!!!!

((((((( FOTGET IT!!!! ))))))))!!!!!!! You ALL Can't Speak the Word of God ANYHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST Stay THERE!!!!!!!!! --- I CAN'Y HELP FOOLS!!!!!

ME!!!!!!!

How's that new cave working out? Are your neighbors causing you any grief?

musterion
March 28th, 2016, 04:53 PM
Do you believe salvation is something that happened in the past?


Romans 13:11
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


1 Peter 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


If salvation is really something that comes with Christ when He appears the second time, then why do you claim that you have already been saved?

I knew that's what you'd do. You refuse to answer whether the Gospel that I believe is false or not.

Bright Raven
March 28th, 2016, 05:01 PM
Your verse says nothing about being born again.
Try again.

By grace you have been saved.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 05:02 PM
I knew that's what you'd do. You refuse to answer whether the Gospel that I believe is false or not.
You misunderstood the timing of salvation, what else have you misunderstood?

Perhaps you are clinging to half of the Gospel, thinking it is the whole thing?
If so, that half would not be false, but it would not be true, either.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 05:08 PM
By grace you have been saved.

You forgot the "through faith".

Faith is not some magical moment in time when you got your belief just right and won the prize.

Faith is something that you live by every day of your life.

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 05:18 PM
How's that new cave working out? Are your neighbors causing you any grief?


THERE Is Nothing Strange about Anything Y-O-U -- S-A-Y!!! -- Y-O-U Cannot USE The Word of God to Believe IN!!!! You "Must" just Speak YOUR OWN LIES and ""N-e-v-e-r"" the T-R-U-T-H!!!!!!!!

ME!!!!!!!! -- 032816

Grosnick Marowbe
March 28th, 2016, 05:21 PM
THERE Is Nothing Strange about Anything Y-O-U -- S-A-Y!!! -- Y-O-U Cannot USE The Word of God to Believe IN!!!! You "Must" just Speak YOUR OWN LIES and ""N-e-v-e-r"" the T-R-U-T-H!!!!!!!!

ME!!!!!!!! -- 032816

Does that mean you feel comfortable in your new cave?

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 05:23 PM
What me worry? You that's who.!!!!


G-O-D Didn't SAY That, Some Lying FOOL DID // Y-O-U DID!!!!!

ME!!!! -- 032816

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 05:25 PM
Does that mean you feel comfortable in your new cave?


O-N-L-Y SATAN Talks Like THAT!!!!!!!

ME!!!!!! - 032816!!!!!

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 05:34 PM
You need to join the "Nuts of the month club."


Matthew 13:34 KJV

ME!!

Letsargue
March 28th, 2016, 06:14 PM
Does that mean you feel comfortable in your new cave?


H-O-W Do You Talk LIKE That O-N A "Christian P-L-A-C-E; -- "I-F" It Is A Christian PLACE?????

Only Satan Talks Like That IN His Place / HELL, Not From Where I AM; IN HEAVEN!!! ----- (( Ephesians 2:6 KJV )) -- 6- "And H-A-T-H Raised US up Together, and M-A-D-E US Sit Together I-N Heavenly Places I-N Christ Jesus!!!

WHAT Does "G-O-D" Say THERE, BLIND Whatever Your ARE?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF You Are I-N- Christ, Where Are YOU ALL??????

ME!!!!! -- 032816!!!!!!!!!!

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 04:30 AM
Do you believe salvation is something that happened in the past?


Romans 13:11
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 Peter 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If salvation is really something that comes with Christ when He appears the second time, then why do you claim that you have already been saved?Salvation comes in 3 tenses: Past, Present, Future.

Past:Ephesians 2:8 NKJ For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God

2 Timothy 1:9 NKJ [God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

Titus 3:5 NKJ not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit
Present:1 Corinthians 1:18 NKJ For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15 NKJ For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.
Future:NKJ Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


Mark 13:13 NKJ "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Romans 5:9-10 NKJ 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

chrysostom
March 29th, 2016, 04:35 AM
Salvation comes in 3 tenses: Past, Present, Future.


you left out the most important one
-that they might be saved (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=might+be+saved&qs_version=KJV)
-that is in your bible
-it is conditional
-it depends on what you do

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 04:43 AM
Past Tense (Done on the cross.):

God saved All through Christ, no one exempted.

Present Tense (Being done throughout one's lifetime.):

God is saving All through Christ, no one exempted.

Future Tense (Rewarding of all when Christ comes again.):

God will save All overcomers through Christ. Rewarded with life eternal.

Non-overcomers were all blotted out. Rewarded with wrath of God and finally thrown into the lake of fire.

musterion
March 29th, 2016, 05:09 AM
I don't know you Samie but G.O. is a dishonest punk. Won't deal straight with you. Asks endless evasive questions, then ignores direct questions he can't answer. Also lies when arguing against the concept of the Trinity. Take him seriously and you'll end up wasting your time. Just FYI.

SaulToPaul
March 29th, 2016, 05:45 AM
Muz indicated that the natural birth referred to election in the old covenant, and being born from above signified election into the new covenant. That sounds good except that the LORD said,

"Except a man be born of water AND of the spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

It takes both.

Muz's idea does not work.

SaulToPaul
March 29th, 2016, 05:47 AM
John 3
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Observe the Lord's movements after he was raised from the dead (born of the Spirit)...no one could tell from where he came, or where he went. He appeared and disappeared.

jamie
March 29th, 2016, 08:42 AM
Did Jesus and Paul preach the same thing?

Paul said he had the mind of Christ which means he preached what Christ inspired him to preach.
(1 Corinthians 2:16)

We can't divide Christ from Christ.

Letsargue
March 29th, 2016, 09:53 AM
H-O-W Do You Talk LIKE That O-N A "Christian P-L-A-C-E; -- "I-F" It Is A Christian PLACE?????

Only Satan Talks Like That IN His Place / HELL, Not From Where I AM; IN HEAVEN!!! ----- (( Ephesians 2:6 KJV )) -- 6- "And H-A-T-H Raised US up Together, and M-A-D-E US Sit Together I-N Heavenly Places I-N Christ Jesus!!!

WHAT Does "G-O-D" Say THERE, BLIND Whatever Your ARE?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF You Are I-N- Christ, Where Are YOU ALL??????

ME!!!!! -- 032816!!!!!!!!!!


Y-E-S-S-S!!! ??christians??!!!!!

Put This One Out from YOU, so you don't have to R-E-S-P-O-N-D TO I-T!! - That's WHAT YOU A-L-L DO Always!! // ""Ungodly Cowards"" are All IN HELL and Can't Know IT,, OR Don't CARE!!!

Prove IT Wrong!!!!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 032916

themuzicman
March 29th, 2016, 10:39 AM
Muz indicated that the natural birth referred to election in the old covenant, and being born from above signified election into the new covenant. That sounds good except that the LORD said,

"Except a man be born of water AND of the spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

It takes both.

Muz's idea does not work.

Unfortunately, S2P has ignored the context of John 3, which I presented to him, which showed that Jesus is speaking with Nicodemus, who believed he gained entrance into the Kingdom of God because of his natural birth as a Jew, and Jesus was informing him that his natural birth was insufficient, that he needed to be "born again".

So, Because S2P has no idea how to do exegesis, he misses the point.

SaulToPaul
March 29th, 2016, 10:45 AM
Unfortunately, S2P has ignored the context of John 3, which I presented to him, which showed that Jesus is speaking with Nicodemus, who believed he gained entrance into the Kingdom of God because of his natural birth as a Jew, and Jesus was informing him that his natural birth was insufficient, that he needed to be "born again".

So, Because S2P has no idea how to do exegesis, he misses the point.

:chuckle:

genuineoriginal
March 29th, 2016, 11:49 AM
Salvation comes in 3 tenses: Past, Present, Future.
What catastrophic event were you saved from in the past?
What catastrophic event are you being saved from in the present?
What catastrophic event will you be saved from in the future?

genuineoriginal
March 29th, 2016, 11:50 AM
I don't know you Samie but musterion is a dishonest punk. Won't deal straight with you. Asks endless evasive questions, then ignores direct questions he can't answer. Also lies when arguing against the concept of the Trinity. Take him seriously and you'll end up wasting your time. Just FYI.

FTFY, and you are welcome :)

SaulToPaul
March 29th, 2016, 12:10 PM
So, Because S2P has no idea how to do exegesis, he misses the point.

"To do exegesis" is such a pompous phrase.

But, as a co-graduate of The Institute of Eisegesis and Sloppy Exegesis of Akron Ohio with saint john w the great, this is to be expected.

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 02:51 PM
I don't know you Samie but G.O. is a dishonest punk. Won't deal straight with you. Asks endless evasive questions, then ignores direct questions he can't answer. Also lies when arguing against the concept of the Trinity. Take him seriously and you'll end up wasting your time. Just FYI.Thanks for the info, brother.

musterion
March 29th, 2016, 02:53 PM
"To do exegesis" is such a pompous phrase.

Bro, do you even exegete?

john w
March 29th, 2016, 02:57 PM
"To do exegesis" is such a pompous phrase.

But, as a co-graduate of The Institute of Eisegesis and Sloppy Exegesis of Akron Ohio with saint john w the great, this is to be expected.

You underestimate the potential to be influenced by a preconceived theology. If you took time to understand church history and hermeneutics, you might be able to think more critically. You need to exegeted relevant passages. I am satisfied that the Breenite proof texts re. weighing in do not stand up to contextual and grammatical study. Your arguments are more emotional than exegetical. This is not an issue of spiritual discernment .It is about discarding your hobby horses, straw men, and wooden literalisms, using grammatical, contextual, historical, theological, cultural, literal principles (hermeneutics/exegesis).

May I suggest a church approved NT commentary?

john w
March 29th, 2016, 02:58 PM
Bro, do you even exegete?

I think exegeting is what causes the mange, Dr. Pendyke Musty....

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 03:02 PM
When were people born again?NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the deadWe all were born again, that is, made alive spiritually, when Christ resurrected.

All - being His body - died when Christ died, and were all resurrected when Christ rose from the grave.

jamie
March 29th, 2016, 03:05 PM
All - being His body - died when Christ died, and were all resurrected when Christ rose from the grave.


That's not what Jesus said. (Luke 20:34-36)

musterion
March 29th, 2016, 03:16 PM
I think exegeting is what causes the mange, Dr. Pendyke Musty....


C'mere, ya big lug . . .

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIOACcjC5mM/maxresdefault.jpg

john w
March 29th, 2016, 03:48 PM
C'mere, ya big lug . . .

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIOACcjC5mM/maxresdefault.jpg

I feel a new anointing, dropping down on you, as dew does from the heavens!!!! Puh-raayyyyyyyyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz the Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd! Give Him a shout, saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

musterion
March 29th, 2016, 03:56 PM
I feel a new anointing, dropping down on you, as dew does from the heavens!!!! Puh-raayyyyyyyyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz the Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd! Give Him a shout, saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blow the holy shofar! Wait, where's the shofar? Ah well.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/09/ee/eb09eeba16e38b7df4ef366a5ad7e1ef.jpg

john w
March 29th, 2016, 04:07 PM
Blow the holy shofar! Wait, where's the shofar? Ah well.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/09/ee/eb09eeba16e38b7df4ef366a5ad7e1ef.jpg

You are way ahead of me, Musty....Let me ketchup......Wait....My word of knowledge...I see a man, in Philadelphia, with a blood condition...Wait.......It's a miracle!!!!!!!!!!!!No, it's ketchup!!!!!!!!!Puh rayyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!!!!!!!!!!!!

With me, so far/shofar?

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/7/74/Benny_hinn.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110619073915

musterion
March 29th, 2016, 06:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRYql1Fk4K0

1Mind1Spirit
March 29th, 2016, 09:27 PM
Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42
And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.




John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.




Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.



John 14:2 |
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.




John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Bump.:luigi:

Samie
March 30th, 2016, 10:16 AM
That's not what Jesus said. (Luke 20:34-36)Did Peter lie when he said people were born again through the resurrection of Jesus? If no, then what's your problem?

ClimateSanity
April 1st, 2016, 12:26 PM
Did Jesus and Paul preach the same thing?

Paul said he had the mind of Christ which means he preached what Christ inspired him to preach.
(1 Corinthians 2:16)

We can't divide Christ from Christ.

Christ has different purposes. This does not divide him.

jamie
April 1st, 2016, 02:26 PM
Did Peter lie when he said people were born again...


Peter did not say born again. Here is what he actually said:


...being begotten again... (1 Peter 1:23 YLT)

No one has been born again other than Jesus by his definition.