PDA

View Full Version : When obedience becomes rebellion



Totton Linnet
March 24th, 2016, 05:15 AM
Everybody but EVERYBODY has to eventually come clean, obedience is an aspiration but an aspiration only.

They usually start off like shackles

Pretending they have given up everything and are living the perfect Christian life of obedience to Jesu's commands. They never actually say that but it is implied inasmuch as they command us that we must and flog us when we don't.

Therefore

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved, when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.

And this is exactly what God has done.

The handwriting which was against us has been nailed to the cross, God has proclaimed a NEW way to be saved, not by obeying commands but by simply trusting Jesus to save us.

When therefore streuthy and shackles and all the others of them come along preaching the necessity of obedience to Jesu's commands in order to be saved they are in rebellion to God, are enemies of the cross and serrvants of the devil.

THAT is why we oppose them so fiercely

They drive people away from Christ, people as are looking for salvation they come up against shackles and co and hear them say "you must obey Jesu's commands" and they are more HONEST than them for they KNOW they are unable to do it.

We open our arms to people who are coming, we tell them there are no obstacles, nothing to prevent them...Just come and BELIEVE and welcome.

Robert Pate
March 24th, 2016, 07:44 AM
Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. Some don't qualify.

jamie
March 24th, 2016, 07:57 AM
Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved...


Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

Robert Pate
March 24th, 2016, 08:18 AM
Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

The only condition to be saved is to believe. Nothing about aspiring.

genuineoriginal
March 24th, 2016, 11:41 AM
Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved
True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."


when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.
False.
Rejection of God's law and commandments will earn you damnation.
You cannot please God through a faithless rejection of His law and commandments, He says, "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."

God only gives salvation to people that please Him by their faith, He says, "Your faith has saved you."

So, what are we to do to please God with our faith?

Matthew 22:37-39
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Totton Linnet
March 24th, 2016, 02:55 PM
True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."


False.
Rejection of God's law and commandments will earn you damnation.
You cannot please God through a faithless rejection of His law and commandments, He says, "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."

God only gives salvation to people that please Him by their faith, He says, "Your faith has saved you."

So, what are we to do to please God with our faith?

Matthew 22:37-39
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Only believe

Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.

I think you have a funny idea that God saves us because He sees something good in us.

You neither manage to love God as He said you shalt or to love your neighbour as yourself

genuineoriginal
March 24th, 2016, 05:31 PM
Only believe
Belief without works is dead.
You cannot obligate God to save you through your empty beliefs.


Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.
You misunderstand because you were taught to misunderstand.

There is a difference between obeying the commandments as a way to obligate God and obeying the commandments because you love God and submit to Him.


John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you don't keep His commandments, do you love God?


1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

If you do not keep His commandments out of love, you really don't have faith at all.

glorydaz
March 24th, 2016, 09:36 PM
Belief without works is dead.

Belief in the work of the Cross gives life. That's the work that matters. That's the work that saves.

1Mind1Spirit
March 25th, 2016, 01:53 AM
Belief in the work of the Cross gives life. That's the work that matters. That's the work that saves.

Jesus went to the cross trusting that his Father would resurrect him.

So are you saying that trusting is work?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:04 AM
When obedience becomes rebellion
Everybody but EVERYBODY has to eventually come clean, obedience is an aspiration but an aspiration only.


Eventually come clean? When we come to Jesus to be saved, he cleans us of the sins we REPENT of doing.






They usually start off like shackles

Pretending they have given up everything and are living the perfect Christian life of obedience to Jesu's commands. They never actually say that but it is implied inasmuch as they command us that we must and flog us when we don't.
I do not flog anyone.
I do not pretend to obey; and even if I did pretend to obey, it would not change the truth that we have to obey. I am careful to obey so I will not be disqualified.






Therefore

Obedience to commandments can never be a way to be saved, when we come to the vital subject of salvation, all idea of keeping laws and commandments must be totally set aside.

Jesus’ words are Spirit and life. How do you think you will have the Spirit and life if you do not obey what Jesus says?








And this is exactly what God has done.

The handwriting which was against us has been nailed to the cross, God has proclaimed a NEW way to be saved, not by obeying commands but by simply trusting Jesus to save us.

Jesus did not come to earth to teach us what to do and then die and erase everything he taught.

Jesus came to earth to teach us the way of the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood for the New Covenant.







When therefore streuthy and shackles and all the others of them come along preaching the necessity of obedience to Jesu's commands in order to be saved they are in rebellion to God, are enemies of the cross and serrvants of the devil.

So when Jesus was on earth telling us to obey, those words became words people can use to do the devil’s work?






THAT is why we oppose them so fiercely

They drive people away from Christ, people as are looking for salvation they come up against shackles and co and hear them say "you must obey Jesu's commands" and they are more HONEST than them for they KNOW they are unable to do it.

Who cannot admit they are a sinner? Who cannot humble themselves? Who cannot confess and repent of their sins? Who cannot forgive others?




We open our arms to people who are coming, we tell them there are no obstacles, nothing to prevent them...Just come and BELIEVE and welcome.
It is not your arms they are seeking to comfort them, but God the Father’s.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:08 AM
Just listen carefully to the title of this thread--- When obedience becomes rebellion.


Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:10 AM
Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. Some don't qualify.

All are sinners. All have to come admitting that if they want to be saved. That is part of humbling yourself.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:30 AM
Salvation is a gift ... simply a gift, but it is a gift that must be respected by those who aspire to the kingdom of God.

The gift is grace which means we do not have to do the purification/ceremonial works to make ourselves clean just to go to the temple to worship God.

Jesus' blood cleans us by our only having to have faith that it cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Just imagine having to do various washings and sacrificing animals just to clean yourself because you sat where someone else sat who had a normal discharge.


Leviticus 15:32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


16 “ ‘When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man has sexual relations with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both of them must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 19 “ ‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 “ ‘Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Anyone who touches her bed will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 22 Anyone who touches anything she sits on will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, they will be unclean till evening.

28 “ ‘When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge. 31 “ ‘You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.’ ” 32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


The Israelites had these rules and regulations for over 1,600 years.

This is the WORKS that no longer save.

Paul was not saying obeying no longer saves!

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:45 AM
True.
There is no way to obligate God to save you by obedience to commandments.
You cannot please God through a rote obedience to His law and commandments, He says, "This people honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

That scripture about people honoring with their lips is about people speaking about what God wants but do not obey.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 03:57 AM
Only believe

Faith and lawkeeping are two different things, you speaking from both sides of your mouth Gen, first you say obeying commands will not do then you say we must.

I think you have a funny idea that God saves us because He sees something good in us.

You neither manage to love God as He said you shalt or to love your neighbour as yourself

Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Totton Linnet
March 25th, 2016, 04:05 AM
Belief without works is dead.
You cannot obligate God to save you through your empty beliefs.


You misunderstand because you were taught to misunderstand.

There is a difference between obeying the commandments as a way to obligate God and obeying the commandments because you love God and submit to Him.


John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you don't keep His commandments, do you love God?


1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

If you do not keep His commandments out of love, you really don't have faith at all.

*
Faith without works is dead...but God requires righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.

For this is the love of God [not the love of man] that we keep His commands and His commands are not grevious For whatever is born of God overcometh the world and THIS IS the victory that overcometh the world EVEN OUR FAITH

Who is he that overcometh the world but he that BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Son of God.

If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.

I must confess I have been dismayed this last year seeing the dodgey stuff YOU have allowed yourself to be taught....I had thought better of you.

If you do not understand that Grace is what James calls the royal law and is far above any keeping of the law you have missed out.

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said for we have none of us kept the law, then when God said to go back they insisted on entering...they had disobedient hearts to whatever God said.

Beware of that

If we love Jesus we will keep His commands so shall we prove to be His discipleship

Salvation and discipleship are two things clear different, you can't even begin to think about obedience and discipleship until we are saved

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 04:10 AM
*
Faith without works is dead...but God require righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.

If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.

I must confess I have been dismayed this last year seeing the dodgey stuff YOU have allowed yourself to be taught....I had thought better of you.

If you do not understand that Grace is what James calls the royal law and is far above any keeping of the law you have missed out.

Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said


James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Love is not harming your neighbor that is how we love our neighbors, we do no harm to them.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment.

If you do not harm your neighbor so you do not bear false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Do you understand now?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 04:20 AM
Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness is disobedient for God has shown us the right way to be saved. It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said

1 Corinthians 10

Warnings From Israel’s History

1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

glorydaz
March 25th, 2016, 12:26 PM
Jesus went to the cross trusting that his Father would resurrect him.

So are you saying that trusting is work?

No. Why would you think that?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Of course, trusting is a work. It is a light and easy non burdensome work.

glorydaz
March 25th, 2016, 04:40 PM
Of course, trusting is a work. It is a light and easy non burdensome work.

If you have to work at trusting then you have a problem, because work is the opposite of REST. The harder you work, the more you're trusting in your own efforts.

1Mind1Spirit
March 25th, 2016, 04:47 PM
No. Why would you think that?

Just trying to figure out what it is you believe the work of the cross was.

Prophecy tells us it pleased God to bruise his son,an Apostle added it was to make him perfect through suffering.

Maybe I should have asked who's work on the cross?

I know it was God's work, and I suppose one could call learning obedience while suffering work.

What do you think?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 04:47 PM
If you have to work at trusting then you have a problem, because work is the opposite of REST. The harder you work, the more you're trusting in your own efforts.

Jesus has a yoke. Read and believe.

1Mind1Spirit
March 25th, 2016, 04:49 PM
Of course, trusting is a work. It is a light and easy non burdensome work.

Not so sure I'd call being whipped and nailed to the cross non- burdensome.

1Mind1Spirit
March 25th, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jesus has a yoke. Read and believe.

Yer half right.

Jesus said his burden is light not non existent.

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

glorydaz
March 25th, 2016, 05:00 PM
Just trying to figure out what it is you believe the work of the cross was.

Prophecy tells us it pleased God to bruise his son,an Apostle added it was to make him perfect through suffering.

Maybe I should have asked who's work on the cross?

I know it was God's work, and I suppose one could call learning obedience while suffering work.

What do you think?

The work of the Cross was God coming in the flesh to pay the price for sin that man could not pay. That sin debt kept man from God, and our Lord's death and resurrection is the work of faith that provided the gift of salvation to all who believe. I'm sure there are better ways of saying it, but basically it's our Lord's death, burial and resurrection.

glorydaz
March 25th, 2016, 05:02 PM
Not so sure I'd call being whipped and nailed to the cross non- burdensome.

Indeed, and it's HIS obedience that saves. Not ours.

glorydaz
March 25th, 2016, 05:13 PM
Yer half right.

Jesus said his burden is light not non existent.

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We see His yoke is to learn of Him. We also see REST (twice) in this text.


Matt. 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

This "rest" we find is when we are created IN Christ Jesus and we become His workmanship. He performs His work IN US. It's why boasting is excluded by the Law of faith.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 10:23 PM
Yer half right.

Jesus said his burden is light not non existent.

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

How do you ever get that I am half right when I spoke the scripture? I am not half right. I am right. Jesus has a yoke. The burden part is about the yoke, for his work is not burdensome.

1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 10:30 PM
Not so sure I'd call being whipped and nailed to the cross non- burdensome.

You do not have to do that. Jesus has a yoke for us, and it is light, easy, and not burdensome. Why argue with the written Word?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 10:34 PM
The work of the Cross was God coming in the flesh to pay the price for sin that man could not pay. That sin debt kept man from God, and our Lord's death and resurrection is the work of faith that provided the gift of salvation to all who believe. I'm sure there are better ways of saying it, but basically it's our Lord's death, burial and resurrection.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses those he saves. He chooses those who obey.

Totton Linnet
March 27th, 2016, 05:18 AM
We see His yoke is to learn of Him. We also see REST (twice) in this text.


Matt. 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

This "rest" we find is when we are created IN Christ Jesus and we become His workmanship. He performs His work IN US. It's why boasting is excluded by the Law of faith.

This is true, there will be no boasting in heaven, no one will say "I am here because I obeyed" it sounds foolish now, what will it sound like then

jamie
March 27th, 2016, 08:52 AM
This is true, there will be no boasting in heaven, no one will say "I am here because I obeyed" it sounds foolish now, what will it sound like then


Salvation is a gift, but it is a gift that can be deferred to the Last Day by disobedience to God's instructions.

God's Truth
March 27th, 2016, 09:07 AM
This is true, there will be no boasting in heaven, no one will say "I am here because I obeyed" it sounds foolish now, what will it sound like then

It is never ever shameful to say one obeyed Jesus. Paul boasts in it, He tells us he will boast in us.

God's Truth
March 27th, 2016, 09:10 AM
Salvation is a gift, but it is a gift that can be deferred to the Last Day by disobedience to God's instructions.

The gift means you are cleaned and didn't have to clean yourself by preaching circumcision, adhering to a special diet, observing special days, doing VARIOUS washings, and sacrificing animals.

What don't you get about that? You didn't have to do THOSE works. It does NOT mean you didn't have to do anything.

You have to do what Jesus says to do in order to get the gift.

jamie
March 27th, 2016, 01:14 PM
You have to do what Jesus says to do in order to get the gift.


And where did Jesus say not to keep his Father's commandments defining love to God and neighbor?

God's Truth
March 27th, 2016, 04:31 PM
And where did Jesus say not to keep his Father's commandments defining love to God and neighbor?

Where do you ever get that Jesus says not to keep his Father's commandments defining love to God and neighbor?

Just take more time studying what I said. With the measure you use it will be measured to you and more.

If you merely skim through what I say without giving it much thought or study, then you will not get much. If you study hard into the night, and give up food and drink trying to figure it out, you will get that and much more.

Mark 4:24 "Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more.

jamie
March 27th, 2016, 05:11 PM
Where do you ever get that Jesus says not to keep his Father's commandments defining love to God and neighbor?


It was a question, not a statement.

God's Truth
March 27th, 2016, 09:18 PM
It was a question, not a statement.

Okay, so elaborate further.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 06:45 AM
The work of the Cross was God coming in the flesh to pay the price for sin that man could not pay.
That is not what the Bible says.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 06:49 AM
This is true, there will be no boasting in heaven, no one will say "I am here because I obeyed" it sounds foolish now, what will it sound like then

Foolish people have been taught to focus on whether they can save themselves through what they do.

The problem with that is that the Bible teaches that you can damn yourself through what you do.

Everyone that will end up in the lake of fire at the judgment will be there because of disobedience, none will end up there because of obedience.

chair
March 28th, 2016, 08:01 AM
Just listen carefully to the title of this thread--- When obedience becomes rebellion.


Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Good call on the verse

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 10:51 AM
*
Faith without works is dead...but God requires righteous works, not dead works, when people come to Christ, when they turn that is repentance, that is the work God rewards...not the works of the law.
You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.


If your response to the gospel is to begin to do works of righteousness or works of the law in order to be saved [or to stay saved] then you have not understood the gospel.
Stop looking at whether you can save yourself with your works.
Look at how you can damn yourself with your works.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Again I say that to begin obeying laws as a means to righteousness
Obeying laws as a means to righteousness is the proper way for children in Christ to begin to learn about righteousness, since the law is our schoolmaster and many Christians have never learned what the schoolmaster teaches.

Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Obeying the law is not an end, since you are expected to learn the principles and then apply them to your life when you leave the schoolmaster
If you are rebelling against the teachings of the schoolmaster, then you are stuck in unrighteousness.


It is like the Jews who would not enter the Promised land when God said for we have none of us kept the law, then when God said to go back they insisted on entering...they had disobedient hearts to whatever God said.

Beware of that
If you have a heart that is rebelling against the law that God gave, then you have a disobedient heart to whatever God said, just like the children of Israel you are referring to.


If we love Jesus we will keep His commands so shall we prove to be His discipleship

Salvation and discipleship are two things clear different, you can't even begin to think about obedience and discipleship until we are saved
People are called when they hear the Word.
Some will reject it and others will believe.
Those that believe will either repent and obey, or rebel against obeying.
Those that repent and obey are the ones that Jesus chooses to be written in the Book of Life, are given the Holy Spirit as a pledge that they will be saved in the coming salvation.
Those that repent and obey will either continue in their faith or fall from it.
Those that continue in their faith will not be blotted from the Book of Life.
Those that quench the Spirit and fall from the faith will have their names blotted out from the Book of Life if they remain in continuous rebellion.
Those that are still written in the Book of Life at the end of their life will receive salvation in the Resurrection of the Righteous.

Salvation is the end of faith, not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

God's Truth
March 28th, 2016, 12:18 PM
You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.


Stop looking at whether you can save yourself with your works.
Look at how you can damn yourself with your works.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Obeying laws as a means to righteousness is the proper way for children in Christ to begin to learn about righteousness, since the law is our schoolmaster and many Christians have never learned what the schoolmaster teaches.

Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Obeying the law is not an end, since you are expected to learn the principles and then apply them to your life when you leave the schoolmaster
If you are rebelling against the teachings of the schoolmaster, then you are stuck in unrighteousness.


If you have a heart that is rebelling against the law that God gave, then you have a disobedient heart to whatever God said, just like the children of Israel you are referring to.


People are called when they hear the Word.
Some will reject it and others will believe.
Those that believe will either repent and obey, or rebel against obeying.
Those that repent and obey are the ones that Jesus chooses to be written in the Book of Life, are given the Holy Spirit as a pledge that they will be saved in the coming salvation.
Those that repent and obey will either continue in their faith or fall from it.
Those that continue in their faith will not be blotted from the Book of Life.
Those that quench the Spirit and fall from the faith will have their names blotted out from the Book of Life if they remain in continuous rebellion.
Those that are still written in the Book of Life at the end of their life will receive salvation in the Resurrection of the Righteous.

Salvation is the end of faith, not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

This was so good to read.

God's Truth
March 28th, 2016, 12:22 PM
Good call on the verse

Thanks, chair.

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 04:41 PM
[QUOTE=genuineoriginal;4661750]You seem to think that a single moment of repentance is all that God requires instead of a lifetime of righteousness.


Ah crookedness of heart, you've abandoned some glorious doctrines and exchanged them for chaff.

Well God will be faithful with you though you are unfaithful with Him, He said He would save you and He will.

You've forgotten some very basic gospel truths like Paul's new creature in Christ, old things passed away, ALL things became new. You were crucified, you were buried and you were raised to newness of life...born again.

You even have learned to deny His deity. It is all crookedness of heart, and although we be saved there is none of us who can be so sure that we stand that we may not fall.

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 04:46 PM
Peter says we have RECIEVED the end of our faith even the salvation of our souls

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 04:53 PM
you've abandoned some glorious doctrines and exchanged them for chaff.
I've abandoned the doctrines of men for the truth of scripture.


Well God will be faithful with you though you are unfaithful with Him, He said He would save you and He will.
Salvation is conditional, not unconditional.


You've forgotten some very basic gospel truths like Paul's new creature in Christ, old things passed away, ALL things became new. You were crucified, you were buried and you were raised to newness of life...born again.
Continue in the faith and keep going even through great tribulation so you can enter into the kingdom of God, like Paul said.

Acts 14:22
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


You even have learned to deny His deity.
I do not deny the deity of Jesus the Messiah.
Do you deny that Jesus is the Son of God?


although we be saved there is none of us who can be so sure that we stand that we may not fall.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 04:56 PM
Peter says we have RECIEVED the end of our faith even the salvation of our souls

If the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, then you will need to have faith until the end to receive salvation.

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 05:01 PM
You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.

I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.

Bad doctrines begins with heart crookedness, something wrong in us that wants to keep God at a distance, so we erect these barriers of doubt and distrust [for that is what they amount to]

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 05:04 PM
If the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, then you will need to have faith until the end to receive salvation.

I live no longer I but Christ lives IN ME and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 05:10 PM
You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.
I have listened to the warnings.


I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.
I didn't find them across the street.
I found them on my knees and in the Bible.

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 05:12 PM
You prolly fell to dozing and dreamed them up

genuineoriginal
March 28th, 2016, 05:28 PM
You prolly fell to dozing and dreamed them up
Why would you think that is an insult?

Job 33:14-15
14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

Totton Linnet
March 28th, 2016, 05:42 PM
Yah you never learned conditional salvation from God

genuineoriginal
March 29th, 2016, 10:22 AM
Yah you never learned conditional salvation from God

Salvation has always been conditional.

What makes you think it is not?

God's Truth
March 30th, 2016, 11:55 PM
I live no longer I but Christ lives IN ME and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

How is Christ living in you if you are not obeying?

God's Truth
March 30th, 2016, 11:56 PM
You have not listened to all the warnings of scripture. To abide in Christ, to hold fast to your first confidence, to keep the good profession.

I would not cross the street for the doctrines you now hold.

Bad doctrines begins with heart crookedness, something wrong in us that wants to keep God at a distance, so we erect these barriers of doubt and distrust [for that is what they amount to]

You claim it is distrustful to do what Jesus says. That sounds good and right to you how?

Totton Linnet
March 31st, 2016, 04:02 AM
Salvation has always been conditional.

What makes you think it is not?

Conditional upon God's terms which is faith...you and your works will never be good enough


....it's what got you into trouble in the first place...it's what you repented of...it's what you have backslidden to

genuineoriginal
March 31st, 2016, 12:08 PM
Conditional upon God's terms which is faith...
Yes. God gives salvation to those that please Him (Grace) by their faith.

you . . . will never be good enough
That is not for you to decide.

your works will never be good enough
I keep repeating that God cannot be obligated to save you no matter how good your works are.
This concept just doesn't seem to be accepted by people that have their minds polluted with the leaven of the Pharisees.
Clean out that leaven and think about what God requires of you: faith, hope, and love.
Without those, you will never be good enough, no matter how much you try.

God's Truth
March 31st, 2016, 10:44 PM
Conditional upon God's terms which is faith...you and your works will never be good enough


....it's what got you into trouble in the first place...it's what you repented of...it's what you have backslidden to

Not obeying is what gets people in trouble.