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Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 08:27 AM
There is nothing in the New Testament that promotes or teaches a religion. The Bible does not support predestination (Calvinism) nor does the Bible support Catholicism. What the New Testament does support is the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and justification by faith apart from the works of the law. The works of the law is any religious thing that we do. The reason that we are justified by faith is because we have been justified by Christ. Jesus is our justifier.

"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the JUSTIFIER of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

There it is. We are justified (made righteous) by Jesus Christ. No one needs to be predestinated. No one needs to join the Catholic church. We are MADE righteous by the righteousness of Christ. When we come to Christ as repentant sinners God places the righteousness of Christ to our account. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ".

"And you are complete in him (Jesus) who is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10.

Isn't that where we all really want to be? If God sees us "In Christ" why would you need to be predestinated? If God sees us "In Christ" what good is any religion or the Catholic religion?

"Even when we were dead in sins, God quickened us together with Christ (by grace are you saved) and has raised us up together, and has made us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:5, 6.

There it is again. God sees us "In Christ" in heaven. Now tell me again that you need to be predestinated. Now tell me again that you need a religion. Religion cannot save anyone. John Calvin and the pope are the devils disciples to lead you away from Christ and his Gospel.

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 02:22 PM
The works of the law is any religious thing that we do.


Such as what righteous Abel did?

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 02:58 PM
There is nothing in the New Testament that promotes or teaches a religion. The Bible does not support predestination (Calvinism) nor does the Bible support Catholicism. What the New Testament does support is the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and justification by faith apart from the works of the law. The works of the law is any religious thing that we do.


I don't agree. I agree that Calvinism is not true, and neither is Catholicism. But it is not true that "the works of the law is any religious thing that we do." Where did that come from? The Law is the Law God gave to Moses, consisting of over 600 statements. It is true we cannot be saved by doing the works of the Law, but we as Christians are expected to do all we can to live up to Jesus' teachings. That is not the same as seeking salvation by following the Law.

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and ACTS on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Matthew 7:24, NASB)

"STRIVE to enter through the narrow door [see Matt.7:13,14]; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Luke 13:24, NASB)

"Bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. For it is for this that WE LABOR AND STRIVE, because we have fixed our hope on the living God." (I Timothy 4:8-10, NASB)

Did you notice that Paul said, not that they were already saved, but that they had the HOPE of the life to come? It depended on striving and laboring....DOING the will of God.

"WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12, NASB)

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see YOUR GOOD WORKS, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16, NASB)

"For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS." (I Peter 2:21, NASB)


I could list a lot more to show that what we DO is necessary to remain in good favor with Christ and God, but I think you get the idea. It is wrong to twist everything around and say it doesn't matter what we do.

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 04:22 PM
I don't agree. I agree that Calvinism is not true, and neither is Catholicism. But it is not true that "the works of the law is any religious thing that we do." Where did that come from? The Law is the Law God gave to Moses, consisting of over 600 statements. It is true we cannot be saved by doing the works of the Law, but we as Christians are expected to do all we can to live up to Jesus' teachings. That is not the same as seeking salvation by following the Law.

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and ACTS on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Matthew 7:24, NASB)

"STRIVE to enter through the narrow door [see Matt.7:13,14]; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Luke 13:24, NASB)

"Bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. For it is for this that WE LABOR AND STRIVE, because we have fixed our hope on the living God." (I Timothy 4:8-10, NASB)

Did you notice that Paul said, not that they were already saved, but that they had the HOPE of the life to come? It depended on striving and laboring....DOING the will of God.

"WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12, NASB)

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see YOUR GOOD WORKS, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16, NASB)

"For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS." (I Peter 2:21, NASB)


I could list a lot more to show that what we DO is necessary to remain in good favor with Christ and God, but I think you get the idea. It is wrong to twist everything around and say it doesn't matter what we do.

I did not say that it does not matter what we do.

We are called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel, that is our purpose in life. A good witness lives a holy life for the sake of the Gospel. It is a life lived in and by the Holy Spirit. We are no longer trying to become acceptable to God by what we do or by what we have become because we have ALREADY been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18.

Trying to live up to Jesus's teaching is not living by the Spirit, it is living by the law. This is why Jesus took us out from under the law because it is contrary to us, we can't do it, Colossians 2:14. Even if you were able to keep the law or do the law, the law does not justify. Jesus is the justifier, not the law. We are all sinners, Romans 3:23. This is why the law will not make you acceptable to God, even your very best is still sin. You were born a sinner and you will die a sinner, Psalm 51:5. The only difference is that there are saved sinners and unsaved sinners.

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 06:43 PM
Pate, do you have faith in what you believe to be true?

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 07:18 PM
Pate, do you have faith in what you believe to be true?

Of course. What I believe to be true is backed by scripture and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I know in whom I believe.

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 08:45 PM
Of course. What I believe to be true is backed by scripture and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I know in whom I believe.


So why do you deny others the prerogative to believe what they believe to be true and backed by scripture and the gospel of Jesus Christ?

You mock what others believe rather than showing them where they are mistaken. Why?

In this country we have freedom of religion, i.e., the right to believe what one chooses to believe. You need to respect that right.

Please do.

:Popcorn:

chair
March 23rd, 2016, 10:06 PM
Anybody notice that the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" is actually the "Gospel of Paul"?

Robert Pate
March 24th, 2016, 08:11 AM
So why do you deny others the prerogative to believe what they believe to be true and backed by scripture and the gospel of Jesus Christ?

You mock what others believe rather than showing them where they are mistaken. Why?

In this country we have freedom of religion, i.e., the right to believe what one chooses to believe. You need to respect that right.

Please do.

:Popcorn:

You have the freedom on the Forum to ignore what others believe and write. If you are offended by what I write then don't read it.

Robert Pate
March 24th, 2016, 08:13 AM
Anybody notice that the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" is actually the "Gospel of Paul"?

Paul received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

fishrovmen
March 24th, 2016, 06:48 PM
You have the freedom on the Forum to ignore what others believe and write.

And Robert uses that "freedom" often!

Robert Pate
March 25th, 2016, 08:10 AM
And Robert uses that "freedom" often!

Most of what is on this Forum are half truths or lies.

Only about 10% are Christians. Jesus said few there be that find it. Most are on the broad way and few are on the narrow way that leads to life, Matthew 7:13, 14.