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Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 02:52 PM
At the center of every cult or religion is a man.

In the Calvinist religion it is John Calvin. In the Catholic religion it is the pope. All cults and religions have this one thing in Common. The cultist, Jim Jones, led over 1000 to their deaths. Look at all of the TV preachers that have fallen into sin and corruption. There are literally thousands of preachers that have come out of the seminaries that have no idea of what the Gospel is. This is why Jesus said, "Beware of Men".

The Bible will not lead you astray, but men will. My rule is that if it is not in the Bible and it is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, then reject it. Since the Bible is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, everything should be interpreted in the light of this Gospel. If it is not according to the Gospel that is the tip off that it is false doctrine.

In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14, but only for Christians. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it. Unbelieving sinners are still under it and will be judged by it. 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. In the Gospel Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, and in doing so reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. These are simple basic Christian beliefs that are proven by scripture. If anyone teaches otherwise his teachings should be rejected.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 03:18 PM
The Bible will not lead you astray, but men will.

Right here on TOL. Go read about how God created men to go to hell because he wants to do it, not because they deserve it. Read how you can be God like and stop coveting. Read how partaking in the Lord's Supper is the same as literally eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

Or just trust that he has done the work for you.

jamie
March 14th, 2016, 03:33 PM
Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.


That's a given if you are referring to the Jewish law of Paul's day. It has not been viable since 70 CE.

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 04:27 PM
Right here on TOL. Go read about how God created men to go to hell because he wants to do it, not because they deserve it. Read how you can be God like and stop coveting. Read how partaking in the Lord's Supper is the same as literally eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

Or just trust that he has done the work for you.

Jesus said that it would be this way.

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 04:31 PM
That's a given if you are referring to the Jewish law of Paul's day. It has not been viable since 70 CE.

There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.

john w
March 14th, 2016, 04:50 PM
.... There are literally thousands of preachers that have come out of the seminaries that have no idea of what the Gospel is......

In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14,

And there are literally thousands of preachers, such as yourself, that, in error, assert that the LORD God did away with His "holy law and then abolishes it," citing Colossians 2:14 KJV. Colossians 2:14 KJV does not say that the LORD God did away/abolished the law-it says that "the handwriting of ordinances" was blotted out-this is not a reference to the law, that was blotted out.

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.


Although I agree with much of what you pen on TOL, RP, biblically, you need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances" is not a reference to "God's holy law."

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 04:58 PM
Although I agree with much of what you pen on TOL, RP, biblically, you need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances" is not a reference to "God's holy law."

Didn't the Lord Jesus Christ fulfill the law and the prophets ?

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 05:04 PM
And there are literally thousands of preachers, such as yourself, that, in error, assert that the LORD God did away with His "holy law and then abolishes it," citing Colossians 2:14 KJV. Colossians 2:14 KJV does not say that the LORD God did away/abolished the law-it says that "the handwriting of ordinances" was blotted out-this is not a reference to the law, that was blotted out.

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for ]where no law is, there is no transgression[/U].

Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.


Although I agree with much of what you pen on TOL, RP, biblically, you need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances" is not a reference to "God's holy law."


Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.

This is why Paul said that "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

"Not imputing their trespasses unto them" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

john w
March 14th, 2016, 05:06 PM
The law was not abolished, nor was the OC,Pate-you made that up, and thus assert, on record, that everyone is saved.


Does the TOL audience recognize that Pate is never wrong?

"Not imputing their trespasses unto them"

So, the drone does not get, that Paul must have been drunk, for no one can commit a "trespass," if there is no law against it.

And Paul did not write, "The just shall live by faith," to assert that the law was done away.

Through the law, is the knowledge of sin, and still functions, to bring the lost to Christ-today, as it did in Egypt, as it always has:

Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Read it-"that"


RPate:out with Romans 3:20 KJV, Galatians 3:24-25 KJV.



I know that's quite deep, Pate. You need to back up, and get out of this ditch, that you are in. When you are in a hole, quit digging.

john w
March 14th, 2016, 05:18 PM
Didn't the Lord Jesus Christ fulfill the law and the prophets ?

Yes. "Fulfill" does not mean "abolish"/"do away with."

Nanja
March 14th, 2016, 05:34 PM
At the center of every cult or religion is a man.

In the Calvinist religion it is John Calvin. In the Catholic religion it is the pope. All cults and religions have this one thing in Common. The cultist, Jim Jones, led over 1000 to their deaths. Look at all of the TV preachers that have fallen into sin and corruption. There are literally thousands of preachers that have come out of the seminaries that have no idea of what the Gospel is. This is why Jesus said, "Beware of Men".

The Bible will not lead you astray, but men will. My rule is that if it is not in the Bible and it is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, then reject it. Since the Bible is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, everything should be interpreted in the light of this Gospel. If it is not according to the Gospel that is the tip off that it is false doctrine.

In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14, but only for Christians. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it. Unbelieving sinners are still under it and will be judged by it. 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. In the Gospel Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, and in doing so reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. These are simple basic Christian beliefs that are proven by scripture. If anyone teaches otherwise his teachings should be rejected.



Your understanding of the Word of Truth is flawed; it has been darkened because of the blindness of your heart 2 Cor. 4:3-4; Eph. 4:18.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 12:45 PM
Your understanding of the Word of Truth is flawed; it has been darkened because of the blindness of your heart 2 Cor. 4:3-4; Eph. 4:18.

~~~~~

You are a sad case. You have been taken in by a heretic.

Ktoyou
March 15th, 2016, 01:32 PM
And there are literally thousands of preachers, such as yourself, that, in error, assert that the LORD God did away with His "holy law and then abolishes it," citing Colossians 2:14 KJV. Colossians 2:14 KJV does not say that the LORD God did away/abolished the law-it says that "the handwriting of ordinances" was blotted out-this is not a reference to the law, that was blotted out.

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, ..
Seems too many do not get this. God did not abolish the law, He, though Christ, did away with working to fulfill the law, by giving us salvation by faith in Christ. Christ being perfect for us.

jamie
March 15th, 2016, 03:23 PM
There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.


Really? Is that when the Judeans quit observing the Mosaic law and they all became Christians?

Really?

:rotfl:

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 03:40 PM
You are a sad case. You have been taken in by a heretic.


You are prevented from understanding Spiritual Truth Jude 1:4!

~~~~~

john w
March 15th, 2016, 03:53 PM
There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.

Made up.

Pate-out with these 2 scriptures:


Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 04:25 PM
Made up.

Pate-out with these 2 scriptures:


Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


The law has been abolished for Christians.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances" Ephesians 2:15.

To be under the law is to be under judgment. Wakeup John.

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 04:30 PM
You are prevented from understanding Spiritual Truth Jude 1:4!

~~~~~

Jesus can free you from Calvinism, John 8:36.

john w
March 15th, 2016, 04:31 PM
The law has been abolished for Christians.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances" Ephesians 2:15.

To be under the law is to be under judgment. Wakeup John.

You misinterpreted Ephesians 2:15 KJV, as you did with the Colossians passage Pate, and assert that:

-everyone is saved

-these 2 passages should be deleted-that is satanic:


Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

john w
March 15th, 2016, 04:41 PM
The law has been abolished for Christians.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances" Ephesians 2:15.

To be under the law is to be under judgment. Wakeup John.
"Wakeup John."-Pate

Get saved, Pate, you windbag.

"To be under the law is to be under judgment."-Pate

No law, no judgment/transgression, Pate.

You can't be this stupid. You must be demonic-no other option.

"The law has been abolished for Christians."-Pate=Go ahead, everyone-murder, lie, .................................................. .................as the law has been abolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=satanism.

"The law of commandments" is not referencing the law of Moses, the law against murder, stealing, adultery.......................................... ........................................


Another demon, masquerading as a member of the boc, is exposed.

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 04:54 PM
"Wakeup John."-Pate

Get saved, Pate, you windbag.

"To be under the law is to be under judgment."-Pate

No law, no judgment/transgression, Pate.

You can't be this stupid. You must be demonic-no other option.

"The law has been abolished for Christians."-Pate=Go ahead, everyone-murder, lie, .................................................. .................as the law has been abolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=satanism.

"The law of commandments" is not referencing the law of Moses, the law against murder, stealing, adultery.......................................... ........................................


Another demon, masquerading as a member of the boc, is exposed.

All that we have is the scripture. Your personal opinion is worthless.

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 05:25 PM
Jesus can free you from Calvinism, John 8:36.

You don't know anything about the True Jesus Christ!

~~~~~

john w
March 15th, 2016, 06:24 PM
All that we have is the scripture. Your personal opinion is worthless.

I gave you chapter, and verse, demon, and you assert that the verses I quoted:



Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

....no longer apply, as you assert, on record, that the law no longer leads others to Christ, as the school master, since it no longer exists, and that others cannot know what sin is, since the law no longer exists.


The Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses, which you say is abolished, are for the specific purpose of defining sin. This law, which defines sin, is described by Paul as being as "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good"(Romans 7:12 KJV).


You say the law is abolished, and thus assert that everyone is saved, demon, as if there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed, where there is no law.

You are on record-that is your satanic opinion, while I gave you chapter, and verse, in which to soak that "puffed up as a bullfrog in heat" head of yours. Of course, you are always right, aren't you, Pate?

One more time:

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.


You need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, or the Ephesians passage,in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances"/"the law of commandments" is not a reference to "God's holy law," the law of Moses, the 10 commandments.


Pate: Murder anyone!!! Steal!! Covet!!!!! The law was abolished, and no one can be condemned-there is no law!!!!!


Ssssssssssssssss..........

john w
March 15th, 2016, 06:31 PM
"To be under the law is to be under judgment."-Pate

Tell us, Pate: If there is no longer any law against(fill in the blank), how can one be judged?


You can't be this stupid.

The Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses, which you say is abolished, are for the specific purpose of defining sin.

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 06:50 PM
At the center of every cult or religion is a man.

In the Calvinist religion it is John Calvin. In the Catholic religion it is the pope. All cults and religions have this one thing in Common. The cultist, Jim Jones, led over 1000 to their deaths. Look at all of the TV preachers that have fallen into sin and corruption. There are literally thousands of preachers that have come out of the seminaries that have no idea of what the Gospel is. This is why Jesus said, "Beware of Men".

The Bible will not lead you astray, but men will. My rule is that if it is not in the Bible and it is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, then reject it. Since the Bible is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, everything should be interpreted in the light of this Gospel. If it is not according to the Gospel that is the tip off that it is false doctrine.

In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14, but only for Christians. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it. Unbelieving sinners are still under it and will be judged by it. 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. In the Gospel Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, and in doing so reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. These are simple basic Christian beliefs that are proven by scripture. If anyone teaches otherwise his teachings should be rejected.

Yes indeed. And wouldn't that eliminate just about every religion and denomination on the earth? Take all the doctrines and dogmas of any church or temple or mosque and compare them to the Bible....do they agree with the Scriptures? Take just one.....supporting the military and encouraging church members to join it, praying over the troops as they go off to war. This is so AGAINST Christ's teachings, but church members find excuses to learn to kill and then go off and fight. This would show to me just which religions were false. After you take all of the war-mongers off the table, who is left? These would be the ones to evaluate further.


"I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:44, NASB)

"If possible, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." (Romans 12:18)

"So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." (Romans 14:19)

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:35)

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 06:59 PM
And there are literally thousands of preachers, such as yourself, that, in error, assert that the LORD God did away with His "holy law and then abolishes it," citing Colossians 2:14 KJV. Colossians 2:14 KJV does not say that the LORD God did away/abolished the law-it says that "the handwriting of ordinances" was blotted out-this is not a reference to the law, that was blotted out.

Yes it is.

Paul explained that the Law is not needed anymore since Jesus FULFILLED the Law. His sacrifice replaced and eliminated the need for all the animal sacrifices that were necessary under the Law.

"But now he [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises." (Hebrews 8:6, NASB)

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 07:05 PM
Yes. "Fulfill" does not mean "abolish"/"do away with."

Then "fulfill" is meaningless. What else could it mean other than to make it obsolete?

"When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first one OBSOLETE. Whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." (Hebrews 8:13, NASB)


While you're at it, read Hebrews 10:1-10.

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 07:08 PM
Made up.

Pate-out with these 2 scriptures:


Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3 KJV
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

BINGO. The Law was the "schoolmaster." Christians are no longer required to be under that schoolmaster. No one is required to be under the Law of Moses.

jamie
March 15th, 2016, 07:32 PM
No one is required to be under the Law of Moses.


The Law of Moses has not been viable since 70 CE. No one can under the Law of Moses.

jamie
March 15th, 2016, 07:33 PM
Paul explained that the Law is not needed anymore since Jesus FULFILLED the Law.


Jesus said the law has not been fulfilled. Why do you believe he was mistaken?

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 09:01 AM
"To be under the law is to be under judgment."-Pate

Tell us, Pate: If there is no longer any law against(fill in the blank), how can one be judged?


You can't be this stupid.

The Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses, which you say is abolished, are for the specific purpose of defining sin.


The scripture says that the law has been abolished, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS" Ephesians 2:15. Why is it you can't believe the scripture?

Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it. We are now under grace, Romans 6:14. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 09:06 AM
Yes indeed. And wouldn't that eliminate just about every religion and denomination on the earth? Take all the doctrines and dogmas of any church or temple or mosque and compare them to the Bible....do they agree with the Scriptures? Take just one.....supporting the military and encouraging church members to join it, praying over the troops as they go off to war. This is so AGAINST Christ's teachings, but church members find excuses to learn to kill and then go off and fight. This would show to me just which religions were false. After you take all of the war-mongers off the table, who is left? These would be the ones to evaluate further.


"I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:44, NASB)

"If possible, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." (Romans 12:18)

"So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." (Romans 14:19)

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:35)


Jesus is the end of all religions.

This is why Paul said, "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17. Not by laws, rules or religion.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 09:12 AM
The scripture says that the law has been abolished, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS" Ephesians 2:15. Why is it you can't believe the scripture?


Typical misquote.


...having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

Paul was referring to the Book of the Law, not God's covenant that defines his people for all time.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 09:23 AM
Typical misquote.


...having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

Paul was referring to the Book of the Law, not God's covenant that defines his people for all time.


Everything has been abolished. The Old Covenant, The law, The Jewish religion.

From now on God's people are called to... "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17 and not by rules, laws or religion.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 10:12 AM
The scripture says that the law has been abolished, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS" Ephesians 2:15. Why is it you can't believe the scripture?

Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it. We are now under grace, Romans 6:14. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.

Both the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not referencing the law of Moses, deceitful one. Christians are not "under he law"/"subject to the law" in the sense of their respective walk; however, that is not your "argument," Pate-you say that the law was done away with/abolished, which is satanic, and thus assert, by that "argument," that:

-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by you, as their is no law to condemn them


Pate argues that we should delete these scriptures, as they no longer apply:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Satanic.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:13 PM
Both the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not referencing the law of Moses, deceitful one. Christians are not "under he law"/"subject to the law" in the sense of their respective walk; however, that is not your "argument," Pate-you say that the law was done away with/abolished, which is satanic, and thus assert, by that "argument," that:

-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by you, as their is no law to condemn them


Pate argues that we should delete these scriptures, as they no longer apply:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Satanic.

I guess that I will have to tell you again.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

The reason that they are not under the law is because God sees them as perfect and complete "IN CHRIST".

For the Christian the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Paul said that the law is for sinners, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. The law has not been abolished for the unsaved, they will be judged by it.

You need to read the opening post more carefully.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 12:25 PM
Everything has been abolished. The Old Covenant, The law, The Jewish religion.


Does that include the Jewish King?

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 12:41 PM
From now on God's people are called to... "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17 and not by rules, laws or religion.


Yes, Paul was quoting from the Hebrew Bible.

If the Hebrew religion had been abolished then why did Paul preach from the Hebrew Bible?


When you are in distress and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the LORD your God and obey His voice (for the LORD your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them. (Deuteronomy 4:30-31)

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:48 PM
Yes, Paul was quoting from the Hebrew Bible.

If the Hebrew religion had been abolished then why did Paul preach from the Hebrew Bible?


When you are in distress and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the LORD your God and obey His voice (for the LORD your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them. (Deuteronomy 4:30-31)

The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.

The Old Testament is just what it says that it is, Old.

The new way is through Jesus Christ and not by laws, rules or religion. It is the way of the Spirit.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 12:53 PM
The Old Testament is just what it says that it is, Old.


So why did Paul preach from it?

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 01:04 PM
So why did Paul preach from it?

He didn't preach from it. He quoted some scriptures from it. Paul did not preach the law or religion.

He preached salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law,

john w
March 16th, 2016, 01:38 PM
The scripture says that the law has been abolished, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS" Ephesians 2:15. Why is it you can't believe the scripture?

Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it. We are now under grace, Romans 6:14. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.


"Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it."-you

That is not your only argument:

Vs.

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished."-you, this thread

Bingo, bango, bongo.....


You need to get your story straight, and pay attention to details, as I do.

Dig?

john w
March 16th, 2016, 01:42 PM
Yes it is.

Paul explained that the Law is not needed anymore since Jesus FULFILLED the Law. His sacrifice replaced and eliminated the need for all the animal sacrifices that were necessary under the Law.

"But now he [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises." (Hebrews 8:6, NASB)

Made up. Fulfilled does not mean "abolished"/"destroyed."


Another droid that asserts that everyone is saved.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 01:44 PM
Then "fulfill" is meaningless. What else could it mean other than to make it obsolete?

"When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first one OBSOLETE. Whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." (Hebrews 8:13, NASB)


While you're at it, read Hebrews 10:1-10.

Hebrews 8 KJV

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


While you are at it, read.....




1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


...and get saved.

So there.

Ktoyou
March 16th, 2016, 01:53 PM
He didn't preach from it. He quoted some scriptures from it. Paul did not preach the law or religion.

He preached salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law,

I guess he was just monkeying around? To hear you tell it. :sheep:I told you long ago, you should listen more and stop acting as if you have answers.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 02:02 PM
I guess that I will have to tell you again.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

The reason that they are not under the law is because God sees them as perfect and complete "IN CHRIST".

For the Christian the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Paul said that the law is for sinners, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. The law has not been abolished for the unsaved, they will be judged by it.

You need to read the opening post more carefully.
That is not your only argument:

Vs.

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished."-you, this thread

The above is made up, satanic.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 03:29 PM
He preached salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law,


Did righteous Abel keep the law? Or was he saved by grace?

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 03:34 PM
I guess that I will have to tell you again. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.


And since the Mosaic law has not been viable since 70 CE neither is anyone else.

That's such a senseless comment.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 03:35 PM
That is not your only argument:

Vs.

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished."-you, this thread

The above is made up, satanic.


Not made up, but supported by scripture, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13.

Where is your scripture that says... "The just shall live by the law" There isn't a scripture that says that.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews that the law was decaying and passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 03:40 PM
Did righteous Abel keep the law? Or was he saved by grace?

Abel knew something about the Gospel. That is why his offering was a lamb without spot or blemish. God was pleased with Abel's offering, but not Cain's. Cain's offering was from his garden that was the work of his hands.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 03:42 PM
Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil.


What a stupid comment, people still die, people still sin and the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. (1 Peter 5:8)

john w
March 16th, 2016, 03:44 PM
Not made up, but supported by scripture, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13.

Where is your scripture that says... "The just shall live by the law" There isn't a scripture that says that.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews that the law was decaying and passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil.

This is made up-no scripture says that....


"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished....Not only did Jesus abolish the law,."-you, this thread

The above is made up, satanic.




Both the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not referencing the law of Moses, deceitful one. Christians are not "under he law"/"subject to the law" in the sense of their respective walk; however, that is not your "argument," Pate-you say that the law was done away with/abolished, which is satanic, and thus assert, by that "argument," that:

-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by you, as their is no law to condemn them

No Christian argues, as you do, the above, and that we should delete these scriptures, as they no longer apply, as you do:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Satanic.


"Paul wrote to the Hebrews that the law was decaying "-Pate

vs. Hebrews 8:13 KJV

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

=satanic misquoting scripture.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 03:50 PM
"Not only did Jesus abolish the law,"-Pate

Vs. post cross:

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Pate: Jesus abolished the law, but it was resurrected after the cross, leading Paul, others, the lost to Christ.


You are either demonic, or stupid-which is it Pate?

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 03:51 PM
What a stupid comment, people still die, people still sin and the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. (1 Peter 5:8)

As far as God is concerned Jesus has victoriously defeated sin death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16 Also Hebrews 1:3. Jesus has victoriously reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Can you believe?

john w
March 16th, 2016, 03:55 PM
"Not only did Jesus abolish the law,"-Pate

Vs. post cross:


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Pate: Jesus abolished the law, but it was resurrected after the cross, leading Paul, others, the lost to know what sin is.


You are either demonic, or stupid-which is it Pate?

Ktoyou
March 16th, 2016, 03:56 PM
This is only because Pate is not much of a theologian. He wants to be, but he is not much on critical thinking. He is more a fool than false prophet.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 03:58 PM
As far as God is concerned Jesus has victoriously defeated sin death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16 Also Hebrews 1:3. Jesus has victoriously reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Can you believe?


Can you believe Jesus has victoriously defeated sin death and the devil for himself and now he is working to do the same in those the Father has given to him. We are a work in progress.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:01 PM
"Not only did Jesus abolish the law,"-Pate

Vs. post cross:

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Pate: Jesus abolished the law, but it was resurrected after the cross, leading Paul, others, the lost to Christ.


You are either demonic, or stupid-which is it Pate?

I am afraid that you are the dumb one.

Of course the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ, but what does the scripture say? "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster, for you are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" Galatians 3:25, 26.

The law brings the lost to Christ, because the law is for the lost, but not for Christians.

I am surprised that you do not know these things.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:04 PM
Can you believe Jesus has victoriously defeated sin death and the devil for himself and now he is working to do the same in those the Father has given to him. We are a work in progress.

For HIMSELF?

All that Jesus was and all that he did was for us, in our name and on our behalf.

He was without sin, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 04:11 PM
Observe, the deception. You did not argue only, Pate, that "Of course the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ, the law brings the lost to Christ, because the law is for the lost, but not for Christians. I agree that the law brings the lost to Christ, because the law is for the lost, but not for Christians." You also argue, however:


"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished....Not only did Jesus abolish the law,."-you, this thread


Thus, you say, out of one side of your mouth, that "Jesus" abolished the law when he died on the cross, but, out of the other, "the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ, the law brings the lost to Christ, because the law is for the lost."

How can the law bring you, me, Paul, the lost, to Christ, if it no longer existed/exists-was/is abolished?


Rhetorical q-you are either demonic, or stoned/stupid. There is no other option.

Ktoyou
March 16th, 2016, 04:11 PM
For HIMSELF?

All that Jesus was and all that he did was for us, in our name and on our behalf.

He was without sin, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

This is a mistake too Pate. If you do not see it, then you need a teacher.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:18 PM
This is a mistake too Pate. If you do not see it, then you need a teacher.

I believe that this is a Forum.

If you have a rebuttal you should post it. Please be my teacher.

TulipBee
March 16th, 2016, 04:18 PM
You guys having fun feeding the troll?

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:20 PM
You guys having fun feeding the troll?

Which one? There are so many.

TulipBee
March 16th, 2016, 04:21 PM
Which one? There are so many.
Everybody knows who I'm talking about

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:29 PM
Everybody knows who I'm talking about

You have gotten into some bad pollen that came out of a TULIP.

It apparently has effected your mind. You have become deranged, because you believe that John Calvin is a prophet.

Ktoyou
March 16th, 2016, 04:29 PM
I believe that this is a Forum.

If you have a rebuttal you should post it. Please be my teacher.

You can do better by choosing one who is not so old in this life.

Here is a bit.
God is one. Jesus is God. God lives to His own glory. Jesus came to us in perfection, 100% God, and yet, 100% man. How? He is God who can do all things. God has a divine plan, it was always His plan, we are part of His plan, which is for us, salvation though Jesus, the Christ, who is Son of God and God.

Jesus is God, He has a divine plan. God does not live for us, we live for Him. Jesus loves us, saved us, yet He never began an existence, and did not live for us; He lived as 100% human for the glory of God.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:42 PM
You can do better by choosing one who is not so old in this life.

Here is a bit.
God is one. Jesus is God. God lives to His own glory. Jesus came to us in perfection, 100% God, and yet, 100% man. How? He is God who can do all things. God has a divine plan, it was always His plan, we are part of His plan, which is for us, salvation though Jesus, the Christ, who is Son of God and God.

Jesus is God, He has a divine plan. God does not live for us, we live for Him. Jesus loves us, saved us, yet He never began an existence, and did not live for us; He lived as 100% human for the glory of God.

Of course he lived for us. In our name and on our behalf he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy law, Romans 5:19.

Of course he died for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Jesus was God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him, Romans 6:3.

When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:6

When Jesus arose, we arose with him, Romans 6:11.

We are now "In Christ" in heaven, Colossians 3:3.

And you didn't know these things?

brewmama
March 16th, 2016, 05:31 PM
This is why Jesus said, "Beware of Men".
.


But probably women and hobbits are OK.

john w
March 16th, 2016, 05:36 PM
Of course he lived for us. In our name and on our behalf he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy law, Romans 5:19.



You misinterpreted, as usual, Romans 5:19 KJV. This "In our name and on our behalf he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience," perverts the gospel of Christ, as that is "vicarious law keeping," the same perversion of the good news that Calvinist Nang, tried to get by me/others on TOL. The sole reason for his "life of perfect obedience" was to be qualified as the satisfactory sacrifice(propitiation), the "lamb without blemish," not for the purpose of "crediting" His perfect adherence/obedience to God's holy law to "our account,"i.e., "on our behalf.

This "obedience of one" cited in Romans 5:19 KJV, was not His life of obedience, but the one act, of going to Calvary, and laying down His life in our behalf, being the satisfactory sacrifice, proven by the words of others, observing Him for 3 years, (just as the lamb was),and His perfect obedience, testifying that He was without sin/blemish.


19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners"=Adam's one act

...is contrasted with....

"by the obedience of one"-the Lord Jesus Christ's one act



Of course, Pate will come back with a "I can't be wrong" "post," as he is never wrong.


My brilliance often even stuns me, at times.

Ktoyou
March 16th, 2016, 05:41 PM
Of course he lived for us. In our name and on our behalf he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy law, Romans 5:19.

Of course he died for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21.


You do not want to lean. Live with your insecurities. :loser:

patrick jane
March 16th, 2016, 05:52 PM
You guys having fun feeding the troll?
You're full ?

john w
March 16th, 2016, 05:59 PM
"Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil."-Pate

The devil was abolished?


Log in....lose your mind....

patrick jane
March 16th, 2016, 06:01 PM
"Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil."-Pate

The devil was abolished?


Log in....lose your mind....

That's right saint john w - He defeated sin, death and the devil, not abolished. Not yet

john w
March 16th, 2016, 06:04 PM
You guys having fun feeding the troll?
I do not like green eggs, and ham....Saint John I am...

TulipBee
March 16th, 2016, 06:20 PM
You have gotten into some bad pollen that came out of a TULIP.

It apparently has effected your mind. You have become deranged, because you believe that John Calvin is a prophet.
Everyone, this is how a troll talks

TulipBee
March 16th, 2016, 06:27 PM
You're full ?
I threw up Pateism when I caught him lying a very long time.
Don't feed me toxic demon food from the devil's alter !

Robert Pate
March 17th, 2016, 08:01 AM
I threw up Pateism when I caught him lying a very long time.
Don't feed me toxic demon food from the devil's alter !

That continuous Buzzzzzzing in your head has caused you to believe that John Calvin is an apostle.

TulipBee
March 17th, 2016, 01:20 PM
That continuous Buzzzzzzing in your head has caused you to believe that John Calvin is an apostle.
Who ?????

Robert Pate
March 18th, 2016, 09:26 AM
Who ?????

You the Bee.

TulipBee
March 18th, 2016, 11:54 AM
You the Bee.
My name is not Calvin.
I'm outta here. No more silly lying games.

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:56 PM
Made up. Fulfilled does not mean "abolished"/"destroyed."


Another droid that asserts that everyone is saved.

Well, it is true when you think about it...the Law has been abolished. The Law being fulfilled means that it is OBSOLETE. No longer in force.

God promised a New Covenant. If the old one was for all time, why the new one? "In his saying 'a new covenant,' he has made the former one OBSOLETE." (Hebrews 8:13)


And where have I ever said that everyone is saved?

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 09:00 PM
Hebrews 8 KJV

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


While you are at it, read.....




1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Observe your own post. "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER."

So there.

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 09:05 PM
You can do better by choosing one who is not so old in this life.

Here is a bit.
God is one. Jesus is God. God lives to His own glory. Jesus came to us in perfection, 100% God, and yet, 100% man. How? He is God who can do all things. God has a divine plan, it was always His plan, we are part of His plan, which is for us, salvation though Jesus, the Christ, who is Son of God and God.

Jesus is God, He has a divine plan. God does not live for us, we live for Him. Jesus loves us, saved us, yet He never began an existence, and did not live for us; He lived as 100% human for the glory of God.

Jesus is NOT God, and he says and does what his Father and God tells him to do. The Divine Plan is the Father's, and Jesus subjects himself to whatever the Father wishes.

John 5:19

John 12:49,50

John 17:3

John 20:17

jamie
March 18th, 2016, 09:32 PM
Jesus is NOT God...


Does the Father judge humans? (Romans 2:16)

Robert Pate
March 19th, 2016, 04:07 PM
Does the Father judge humans? (Romans 2:16)

All things will be judged either by God or by Jesus Christ.

jamie
March 19th, 2016, 06:57 PM
All things will be judged either by God or by Jesus Christ.


We know the Father doesn't judge humans. (John 5:22)

But yet God will judge sinners. (Hebrews 13:4)

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 07:48 PM
Does the Father judge humans? (Romans 2:16)

That is a weak argument. Your pastors are grasping at straws. Some of the things they come up with are really lame.

Jehovah, the Father, God has GIVEN Jesus the job of judging. If Jehovah hadn't GIVEN it to him, Jesus would have no authority to judge.

:rolleyes:

jamie
March 19th, 2016, 10:17 PM
Jehovah, the Father, God has GIVEN Jesus the job of judging. If Jehovah hadn't GIVEN it to him, Jesus would have no authority to judge.


But the fact is, Jesus is judging by the authority of God and on behalf of God. It's as if the Most High was doing the judging himself, no difference.

Jesus has all the power of God and they are on the same page.

meshak
March 19th, 2016, 10:46 PM
But the fact is, Jesus is judging by the authority of God and on behalf of God. It's as if the Most High was doing the judging himself, no difference.

Jesus has all the power of God and they are on the same page.

What do you mean by they are on the same page? Are you saying they are equal?

You know very well Jesus says His Father is greater than He.

jamie
March 20th, 2016, 08:04 AM
What do you mean by they are on the same page? Are you saying they are equal?

You know very well Jesus says His Father is greater than He.


Jesus said, "A servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." (John 13:16)

Being on the same page means they are of like mind, same script, same agenda.

Robert Pate
March 20th, 2016, 09:21 AM
Jesus said, "A servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." (John 13:16)

Being on the same page means they are of like mind, same script, same agenda.

Jesus and the Father are one, John 10:30.

jamie
March 20th, 2016, 06:22 PM
Jesus and the Father are one, John 10:30.


They are one God.

Ask Mr. Religion
March 20th, 2016, 06:28 PM
The law was not abolished, nor was the OC,Pate-you made that up, and thus assert, on record, that everyone is saved.


Does the TOL audience recognize that Pate is never wrong?
Some (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116752-Scriptures-that-Refute-Calvinism&p=4644900&viewfull=1#post4644900) do.

AMR

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:31 PM
But the fact is, Jesus is judging by the authority of God and on behalf of God. It's as if the Most High was doing the judging himself, no difference.

Jesus has all the power of God and they are on the same page.

That is mostly correct. Jesus has power from God.....but not ALL the power. Jehovah is always the Most High.

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:33 PM
Jesus and the Father are one, John 10:30.

That's right, and that means they are in absolute AGREEMENT. Just like the disciples are "one" with God and Christ. (John 17:20-23)

patrick jane
March 20th, 2016, 09:34 PM
That is mostly correct. Jesus has power from God.....but not ALL the power. Jehovah is always the Most High.
John 1:1-3 KJV - John 1:14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV -

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:39 PM
They are one God.

Not unless the disciples are ALSO God!

Jesus prayed to his God and Father: "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word; that they may all be ONE; even as You, Father, are in me and I in You, that they may also be in us....The glory which You have given me I have given to them, that they may be ONE, just as we are ONE." (John 17:20-22)

Being "one" obviously means in agreement, or, unified.

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:43 PM
John 1:1-3 KJV - John 1:14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV -

I have commented on those verses ad nauseum. But I don't think you have commented on these:

John 5: 19,30

John 6: 38

John 8: 28,29

John 12: 49,50

John 14: 24,28

John 17: 3

John 20: 17


Would you be so kind? So far no one has done it.

patrick jane
March 20th, 2016, 09:48 PM
I have commented on those verses ad nauseum. But I don't think you have commented on these:

John 5: 19,30

John 6: 38

John 8: 28,29

John 12: 49,50

John 14: 24,28

John 17: 3

John 20: 17


Would you be so kind? So far no one has done it.

There are many more verses that show Christ was sent from the Father and does the Father's will on earth. That is His earthly ministry. The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one in the same.

1 John 5:7 KJV -

fishrovmen
March 21st, 2016, 05:46 AM
Some (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116752-Scriptures-that-Refute-Calvinism&p=4644900&viewfull=1#post4644900) do.

AMR

Actually, many here recognize this; and though many of us try to reason not only from the Scriptures with him, but even with common sense, logic and non-contradiction.
Roberts problem begins not with knowledge and understanding of the Bible, but rather knowledge and understanding of the english language. If he can't understand how two opposites can NOT both be true, it is no wonder that he can't understand the revealed spiritual truth.
Until he learns earthly truths, it is a waste of time to discuss the spiritual. But it is not as though many of us have not spent years trying with him only to find his self exalting proclamations of superior knowledge.

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 07:05 AM
Some (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116752-Scriptures-that-Refute-Calvinism&p=4644900&viewfull=1#post4644900) do.

AMR

The scripture plainly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean that it is not true.

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 07:10 AM
Actually, many here recognize this; and though many of us try to reason not only from the Scriptures with him, but even with common sense, logic and non-contradiction.
Roberts problem begins not with knowledge and understanding of the Bible, but rather knowledge and understanding of the english language. If he can't understand how two opposites can NOT both be true, it is no wonder that he can't understand the revealed spiritual truth.
Until he learns earthly truths, it is a waste of time to discuss the spiritual. But it is not as though many of us have not spent years trying with him only to find his self exalting proclamations of superior knowledge.


Everything is right in the Bible, but you apparently don't read the Bible. You would rather believe the words of a heretic. The Bible does not support Calvinism, it supports the Gospel and justification by faith, which is a million miles away from Calvinism.

jamie
March 21st, 2016, 08:25 AM
The scripture plainly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean that it is not true.


The Book of the Law was temporary but the covenant written with the finger of God is eternal.

jamie
March 21st, 2016, 08:29 AM
That is mostly correct. Jesus has power from God.....but not ALL the power.


I disagree, that's the same as saying a king does not have all power over his kingdom.

jamie
March 21st, 2016, 08:39 AM
Not unless the disciples are ALSO God!



What is man that You are mindful of him and the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels and You have crowned him with glory and honor. You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands, you have put all things under his feet. (Psalm 8:4-6)

But now we do not yet see all things put under him. (Hebrews 2:8)

We are joint heirs with Jesus of all that exists. (But not yet)

Grosnick Marowbe
March 21st, 2016, 08:42 AM
At the center of every cult or religion is a man.

In the Calvinist religion it is John Calvin. In the Catholic religion it is the pope. All cults and religions have this one thing in Common. The cultist, Jim Jones, led over 1000 to their deaths. Look at all of the TV preachers that have fallen into sin and corruption. There are literally thousands of preachers that have come out of the seminaries that have no idea of what the Gospel is. This is why Jesus said, "Beware of Men".

The Bible will not lead you astray, but men will. My rule is that if it is not in the Bible and it is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, then reject it. Since the Bible is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, everything should be interpreted in the light of this Gospel. If it is not according to the Gospel that is the tip off that it is false doctrine.

In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14, but only for Christians. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it. Unbelieving sinners are still under it and will be judged by it. 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. In the Gospel Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, and in doing so reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. These are simple basic Christian beliefs that are proven by scripture. If anyone teaches otherwise his teachings should be rejected.

AMEN!

Ask Mr. Religion
March 21st, 2016, 09:59 AM
The scripture plainly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean that it is not true.
No, Robert, you have again not grasped the context of the many Scriptures you quote in vain attempts to support your own notions. You never appear to take the entire context of what you are quoting into consideration.

Paul says that Christ himself became our peace by breaking down the barrier formed by the dividing wall between the Jew and the Gentile (Eph. 2:14). As an example of that barrier, consider the partition that separated the Court of the Gentiles from the rest of the temple, having inscriptions in Latin and Greek on it that warned Gentiles not to enter upon pain of death. That barrier cannot be the moral law given the context of enmity between Jew and Gentile.

Our Lord brings peace By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations (Eph. 2:15). The [I]commandments referred to here (with regulations) are not the moral law—the Ten Commandments—but the rites of ceremony and sacrifice that made the Jews come near to the temple (circumcision, sacrifices, washings, and abstaining from certain kinds of food). The barrier of ceremonial law that kept the Jew and Gentile apart and was the basis of their hostility has been demolished by the sacrifice of Christ’s flesh that makes all distinctions of the flesh now irrelevant for religious privilege.

AMR

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 01:59 PM
No, Robert, you have again not grasped the context of the many Scriptures you quote in vain attempts to support your own notions. You never appear to take the entire context of what you are quoting into consideration.

Paul says that Christ himself became our peace by breaking down the barrier formed by the dividing wall between the Jew and the Gentile (Eph. 2:14). As an example of that barrier, consider the partition that separated the Court of the Gentiles from the rest of the temple, having inscriptions in Latin and Greek on it that warned Gentiles not to enter upon pain of death. That barrier cannot be the moral law given the context of enmity between Jew and Gentile.

Our Lord brings peace By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations (Eph. 2:15). The [I]commandments referred to here (with regulations) are not the moral law—the Ten Commandments—but the rites of ceremony and sacrifice that made the Jews come near to the temple (circumcision, sacrifices, washings, and abstaining from certain kinds of food). The barrier of ceremonial law that kept the Jew and Gentile apart and was the basis of their hostility has been demolished by the sacrifice of Christ’s flesh that makes all distinctions of the flesh now irrelevant for religious privilege.

AMR


For the Christian there is no law. Where there is law there is judgment.

The law demands that you do something. There is NOTHING for us to do other than to live by faith. "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17.

We live by faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, (The Gospel)

john w
March 21st, 2016, 02:09 PM
For the Christian there is no law. Where there is law there is judgment.

The law demands that you do something. There is NOTHING for us to do other than to live by faith. "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17.

We live by faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, (The Gospel)

You keep moving the bar, Pate, and changing your "argument." I cannot speak for AMR, but know this. AMR says:

"Our Lord brings peace By abolishing in his flesh [i.e., in his incarnate being] the law with its commandments and regulations (Eph. 2:15). The commandments referred to here (with regulations) are not the moral law—the Ten Commandments—but the rites of ceremony and sacrifice that made the Jews come near to the temple (circumcision, sacrifices, washings, and abstaining from certain kinds of food). "-AMR


You say that the moral law was abolished, and you are not just arguing that "For the Christian there is no law"-here are your words:

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil."-Pate

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 02:14 PM
You keep moving the bar, Pate, and changing your "argument." I cannot speak for AMR, but know this. AMR says:

"Our Lord brings peace By abolishing in his flesh [i.e., in his incarnate being] the law with its commandments and regulations (Eph. 2:15). The commandments referred to here (with regulations) are not the moral law—the Ten Commandments—but the rites of ceremony and sacrifice that made the Jews come near to the temple (circumcision, sacrifices, washings, and abstaining from certain kinds of food). "-AMR


You say that the moral law was abolished, and you are not just arguing that "For the Christian there is no law"-here are your words:

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil."-Pate

If you want to live under the law prepare yourself to be judged by the law.

john w
March 21st, 2016, 02:21 PM
If you want to live under the law prepare yourself to be judged by the law.

Irrelevant, and I did not say that Pate, so knock it off. I've never said that the Christian is under the law, in the context of his walk, nor have I ever argued that he/she is under the jurisdiction of the law. However, have also never argued, as you do, below, that the law was abolished....



"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil....In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, "-Pate


...for, if it was:

-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by you, as their is no law to condemn them

No Christian argues, as you do, the above, and that we should delete these scriptures, as they no longer apply, as you do:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Satanic.


You assert, on record, that the law no longer leads others to Christ, as the school master, since it no longer exists, and that others cannot know what sin is, since the law no longer exists.


The Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses, which you say is abolished, are for the specific purpose of defining sin. This law, which defines sin, is described by Paul as being as "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good"(Romans 7:12 KJV).


You say the law is abolished, and thus assert that everyone is saved, demon, as if there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed, where there is no law.

You are on record-that is your satanic opinion, while I gave you chapter, and verse, in which to soak that "puffed up as a bullfrog in heat" head of yours. Of course, you are always right, aren't you, Pate?

One more time:

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.


You need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, or the Ephesians passage,in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances"/"the law of commandments" is not a reference to "God's holy law," the law of Moses, the 10 commandments.


Pate: Murder anyone!!! Steal!! Covet!!!!! The law was abolished, and no one can be condemned-there is no law!!!!!

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 04:33 PM
Irrelevant, and I did not say that Pate, so knock it off. I've never said that the Christian is under the law, in the context of his walk, nor have I ever argued that he/she is under the jurisdiction of the law. However, have also never argued, as you do, below, that the law was abolished....



"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil....In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, "-Pate


...for, if it was:

-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by you, as their is no law to condemn them

No Christian argues, as you do, the above, and that we should delete these scriptures, as they no longer apply, as you do:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Galatians 3:24-25 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Satanic.


You assert, on record, that the law no longer leads others to Christ, as the school master, since it no longer exists, and that others cannot know what sin is, since the law no longer exists.


The Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses, which you say is abolished, are for the specific purpose of defining sin. This law, which defines sin, is described by Paul as being as "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good"(Romans 7:12 KJV).


You say the law is abolished, and thus assert that everyone is saved, demon, as if there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed, where there is no law.

You are on record-that is your satanic opinion, while I gave you chapter, and verse, in which to soak that "puffed up as a bullfrog in heat" head of yours. Of course, you are always right, aren't you, Pate?

One more time:

If the law was blotted out/did away, everyone would be saved:

1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."

With me?


Now:

Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.


You need to shuck this "the law was abolished/did away" assertion, and certainly not employ Colossians 2:14 KJV, or the Ephesians passage,in making your "argument," as "the handwriting of ordinances"/"the law of commandments" is not a reference to "God's holy law," the law of Moses, the 10 commandments.


Pate: Murder anyone!!! Steal!! Covet!!!!! The law was abolished, and no one can be condemned-there is no law!!!!!

I am only going to says this one more time.

THE LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED ONLY FOR CHRISTIANS.

john w
March 21st, 2016, 04:40 PM
I am only going to says this one more time.

THE LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED ONLY FOR CHRISTIANS.

You have not been saying that in this thread, Pate. You need to clean this up,start paying attention to details, as eternal destinies are at stake, and others will continue to "beat you up," not taking you seriously. Here are your words:

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil....In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, "-Pate

You keep saying "the law was abolished,"one more time."

The bible is a book of details-why aren't you paying attention to details? Let me guess: you are always right, not "correctable."

Robert Pate
March 21st, 2016, 04:58 PM
You have not been saying that in this thread, Pate. You need to clean this up,start paying attention to details, as eternal destinies are at stake, and others will continue to "beat you up," not taking you seriously. Here are your words:

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil....In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, "-Pate

You keep saying "the law was abolished,"one more time."

The bible is a book of details-why aren't you paying attention to details? Let me guess: you are always right, not "correctable."

You are the one that is in error. I am not under the law, but it appears that you are.

john w
March 21st, 2016, 05:17 PM
You are the one that is in error. I am not under the law, but it appears that you are.

Why, you deceitful slug. I never said that, Pate, and you know it, and you are changing your "argument," being "under" the devil. In contrast, you assert, on record, that the lost/sinners/ungodly are not subject/under the law, as it no longer exists/was abolished:

"There is only one law, Moses law. It was abolished when Jesus died on the cross, Matthew 27:51.....Not only was the law abolished, so was the Old Covenant and the Jewish religion.....The Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion have been abolished.……..Not only did Jesus abolish the law, he also abolished sin, death and the devil....In the Gospel Jesus full fills God's holy law and then abolishes it, "-Pate, disagreeing with me, when I assert that the law still exists for defining sin/showing the lost what sin is, leading others to Christ,=You are the one that is in error.


" I am not under the law,"-Pate

Irrelevant-I never argued that. You assert that the law no longer exists. That puts you under the devil, as no scripture says that.

Pate-on record, since the law no longer exists:


-everyone is saved
-the lost no longer, like Paul, the Galatians.....who were led to Christ, by the law, are no longer
-no longer are the lost given the knowledge of what sin is, through the law
-Murder, covetousness, theft.....................................are OK by Pate, as there is no law to condemn them
-deletes 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV, Galatians 3:24-25 KJV, Romans 3:20 KJV, Romans 7:7 KJV, Romans 4:15 KJV, Romans 3:4 KJV, Romans 5:13 KJV, 1 John 3:4 KJV

jamie
March 21st, 2016, 05:30 PM
THE LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED ONLY FOR CHRISTIANS.


The law which was part of the Mosaic law was abolished by whom?

Paul explained that even a man's covenant cannot be amended or annulled.

Why do you believe the Father is that wishy-washy, one day okay, another day not okay, one day do this, another day don't?

Ask Mr. Religion
March 21st, 2016, 06:14 PM
For the Christian there is no law. Where there is law there is judgment.

The law demands that you do something. There is NOTHING for us to do other than to live by faith. "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" Romans 1:17.

We live by faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, (The Gospel)
Robert, you are merely asserting. You have not interacted with the passage you are using for these assertions. You want the passage to bear more interpretative freight than it contains. Why not make an actual interpretative attempt and explaining what you think you have read and why you think thusly? There mere naked quotation of Scripture answers no dispute as to what said Scripture means to the writer of the passages nor to the intended recipients to whom the writer was writing. Hermeneutics is not a monologue, Robert. The author does not simply address the readers through the medium of the text, the text alone does not speak to the reader and the reader does not address only a silent text. A proper hermeneutical method is one that integrates three worlds: the author’s, the text’s, and the reader's. To rightly divide Scripture, Robert, try this four-step method:

First step- Word Focus: etymology, synonyms, antonyms
Second step- Word Relations: grammar, syntax
Third step- Context: immediate context, whole book context, whole Bible context.
Fourth step- Culture: Social—the customs of the times; Temporal—the period in history; Geographical—the place on earth.

Now, as for the verse you are appealing to, Eph. 2:15, let's look closely at what Paul has to say.

Eph. 2:14
For he is our peace
Paul here now includes Jews in the privilege of reconciliation, showing that through the one Messiah, all are united to God. This shuts down the false confidence of the Jews that despised the grace of Our Lord, boasting that they were the holy people, and chosen inheritance, of God. If Jesus Christ is our peace, all those who are out of Him must be at emnity with God. No one who is in Christ can doubt that he or she is reconciled to God.

Who hath made both one
That Jesus Christ is our peace was a necessary distinction. All interaction with the Gentiles was held to be inconsistent with the superior claims of the Jews. To subdue their pride, Paul tells the Jews that they and the Gentiles have been united into one body.

Accordingly, Paul reasons...
1. If the Jews wish to enjoy peace with God, they must have Christ as their Mediator.
2. But Christ will not be their peace in any other way than by making them one body with the Gentiles.
3. Therefore, unless the Jews admit the Gentiles to fellowship with them, they have no friendship with God.

And breaking down the middle wall of partition
From Scripture, we know by the will of God that the Jews were separated for a certain time from the Gentiles. We also know that ceremonial observances were the open and avowed symbols of that separation.

God had chosen the Jews to be a peculiar people to himself, passing over the Gentiles. Hence, a wide distinction was made, wherein the one class were “fellow-citizens and of the household” (see Ephesians 2:19) of the church, and the other class were foreigners. We see this plainly stated in the Song of Moses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Moses):
“When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel: for the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.” (Deuteronomy 32:8,9)

God fixed bounds to separate one people from the rest out of which arose the enmity Paul speaks about. The Gentiles were set aside. God was pleased to choose and sanctify the Jews by freeing them from the ordinary pollution of mankind. Afterwards, ceremonial observances were added, which enclosed (like walls) the inheritance of God, preventing it from being open to all peoples or mixed with other possessions, thereby excluding the Gentiles from the kingdom of God.

But now, says Paul, the enmity is removed, and the wall is broken down. By extending the privilege of adoption beyond the limits of Judea, Our Lord has now made us all to be brethren. Thus the prophecy is fulfilled: “God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem.” (Genesis 9:27)

Eph. 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity
The meaning of Paul's words is now made clear. The middle wall of partition hindered Our Lord from forming Jews and Gentiles into one body, therefore the wall has been broken down. Paul adds the reason—to abolish the enmity, by the flesh of Jesus Christ. In the assuming of a human nature common to all peoples, God the Son has formed in His own body a perfect unity.

Even the law of commandments contained in ordinances
The metaphorical wall is now plainly expressed by Paul. The ceremonies, expressions of the distinctions between Jew and Gentile, have been abolished through Jesus Christ. What were circumcision, sacrifices, washings, and abstaining from certain kinds of food, but symbols of sanctification, reminding the Jews that their lot was different from that of other nations. Not only does Paul declare that the Gentiles are equally with the Jews admitted to the fellowship of grace, so that they no longer differ from each other, but also Paul declares that the marks of these differences has been taken away for the ceremonies have been abolished. When an obligation is discharged, the handwriting is destroyed—a metaphor which Paul employs on this very subject in Colossians 2:14.

[A bonus teaching is also available here: In this passage the means of refuting an erroneous view held by some today is available. There are those that still claim circumcision and all the ancient rites, though they are not binding on the Gentiles, are in force at the present day upon the Jews. On this principle there would still be a middle wall of partition between them and us, which is proved to be false by Paul's clear teachings herein.]

That he might make in himself
By the use of in himself, Paul moves the Ephesians from seeing the diversity of men, and entreats them look for unity nowhere else but in Christ. To whatever extent Jew and Gentile might differ in their former condition, in Christ they are become one man. Paul emphatically adds, one new man, intimating to what he explains later that “neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision, availeth anything,” (Galatians 6:15,) but that “a new creature” holds the first and the last place. If we are all renewed by Jesus Christ, the Jews no longer can congratulate themselves on their ancient condition, but let the Jews be ready to admit that, both in themselves and in others, Christ is all.

To wrap up what Paul has been teaching, we see that in the following verse, Eph. 2:16, Paul adds another advantage derived from Jesus Christ, that all have been brought back into favor with God. The Jews have no less a need for a Mediator than do the Gentiles. Without a Mediator, neither the Law, nor ceremonies spoken of herein, nor their descent from Abraham, nor all their dazzling prerogatives, would be of any good. We are all sinners; and forgiveness of sins cannot be obtained but through the grace of Jesus Christ.

In this same verse Paul adds, in one body, to inform the Jews that to cultivate union with the Gentiles will be well-pleasing in God's sight. In this verse Paul points out the out the propitiatory sacrifice, by the cross. Sin lies as the cause of enmity between God and us and until it is removed, we shall not be restored to God's favor. Sin has been blotted out by the death of Christ, a death in which Our Lord offered Himself to God the Father as an expiatory victim. The cross is mentioned here for another reason, for it is through the cross that all ceremonies have been abolished. Accordingly, Paul writes, slaying the enmity thereby. These words, which no doubt relate to the cross, may also have two senses. One, that by HIs death, Our Lord has turned God the Father's anger towards us, or two, that having redeemed both Jews and Gentiles, Jesus Christ has brought them back into one flock. I think the latter to be the more probable interpretation, as it agrees with Eph. 2:15, abolishing in his flesh the enmity.

AMR

Samie
March 21st, 2016, 07:05 PM
Of course he lived for us. In our name and on our behalf he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy law, Romans 5:19.

Of course he died for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Jesus was God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him, Romans 6:3.

When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:6

When Jesus arose, we arose with him, Romans 6:11.

We are now "In Christ" in heaven, Colossians 3:3.

And you didn't know these things?In another thread, you said that all died when He died BUT only those who accepted the gift of salvation were made alive.

You are almost on the right track. You just have to include everyone as being made alive TOGETHER with Him, not just the Christians. Remember, nobody was yet called a Christian, when Jesus died and rose again. Acts 11:26

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 06:09 AM
What is man that You are mindful of him and the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels and You have crowned him with glory and honor. You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands, you have put all things under his feet. (Psalm 8:4-6)

But now we do not yet see all things put under him. (Hebrews 2:8)

We are joint heirs with Jesus of all that exists. (But not yet)

That's not what I was talking about. I said that Jesus being "one" with God doesn't mean that he IS God. Like the DISCIPLES are "one" with Jesus and the Father. (John 17:20-22) If he is God then they are too. Do you think you are going to be God?

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 06:33 AM
The law which was part of the Mosaic law was abolished by whom?

Paul explained that even a man's covenant cannot be amended or annulled.

Why do you believe the Father is that wishy-washy, one day okay, another day not okay, one day do this, another day don't?

I guess I've just been drooling on my keyboard, not making any impression on anybody. Geesh, haven't the cited scriptures made any difference? The Law of Moses was made obsolete when the NEW covenant came into being on the night before Jesus' death, set in motion when he died.

"He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having CANCELED OUT the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us [the Law of Moses], which was hostile to us; and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:13,14, NASB)

"The Law was a SHADOW of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things to come; men can never with the same sacrifices from year to year which they offer continually make those who approach perfect....By these sacrifices there is a REMINDING of sins from year to year, for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away....He does away with what is first [the Law] that he may establish what is second [the fulfillment of the Law & the new covenant]. We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time." (Hebrews 10:1,3,4,9,10)

"Now Jesus has obtained a MORE EXCELLENT public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly BETTER COVENANT, which has been legally established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second....'Look! There are days coming,' says [Jehovah], 'and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a NEW COVENANT'....In his saying 'a new covenant' he has made the former one obsolete." (Heb.8:6-8,13)

Jesus said that the whole Law could be condensed into two: love Jehovah your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:37-40)

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 08:18 AM
The Law of Moses was made obsolete when the NEW covenant came into being on the night before Jesus' death, set in motion when he died.


The law God gave to Israel through Moses was added to his covenant with Abraham and Christ.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. (Galatians 3:17)

What was God's promise to Abraham and Christ?


...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14)

God will make a new covenant with the thirteen tribes of Israel who will be subject to God's kingdom, but he has not done so at this time.

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 10:53 AM
The law God gave to Israel through Moses was added to his covenant with Abraham and Christ.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. (Galatians 3:17)

What was God's promise to Abraham and Christ?


...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14)

God will make a new covenant with the thirteen tribes of Israel who will be subject to God's kingdom, but he has not done so at this time.

God is through making covenants.

All of the conditions for our salvation have been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

"And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 02:19 PM
All of the conditions for our salvation have been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.


You are only thinking of yourself, but what about God's firstborn that Christ brought out of Egypt?

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 04:29 PM
You are only thinking of yourself, but what about God's firstborn that Christ brought out of Egypt?

Jesus is the international savior. What Jesus did for one he did for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

jamie
March 23rd, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jesus is the international savior. What Jesus did for one he did for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.


This has nothing to do with God's new covenant for the thirteen tribes of Israel. His new covenant for Israel will be different.

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 07:22 PM
This has nothing to do with God's new covenant for the thirteen tribes of Israel. His new covenant for Israel will be different.

Jesus is the new Covenant. There are no other Covenants, nor will there ever be any other Covenants.