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Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:18 AM
http://www.covenanteyes.com/.../brain-chemicals-and-porn-add...

Science backs up what God says is harmful for us. The lie is that God is trying to keep us from enjoying ourselves. Once again it's proven He is looking out for us, because He loves us.

Not only has he given us the law to help decipher right from wrong, He has made the way out of it. Jesus can take our shame away by His love, His payment, and by that same love move our hearts to desire Him more than anything else.

God help those struggling with this great evil and the families destroyed by it.

"The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake."
Psalm 23:1-3

jamie
March 14th, 2016, 08:21 AM
Yep, that's the naked truth.

:)

HisServant
March 14th, 2016, 08:47 AM
Like everything, it is a personal choice for everyone.

I chose not to look at porn, others should be educated about its dangers.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 09:09 AM
God help those struggling with this great evil and the families destroyed by it.



Start by recriminalizing it. The same goes with sodomy and adultery.

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 09:38 AM
Unfortunately everything we see on tv and movies and ads leads to porn. Porn is big business

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:11 AM
Yep, that's the naked truth.

:)

The truth that is meant to bring freedom, to those enslaved by this present darkness.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:12 AM
Like everything, it is a personal choice for everyone.

I chose not to look at porn, others should be educated about its dangers.

A freewill choice that is destructive in so many ways.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:14 AM
Start by recriminalizing it. The same goes with sodomy and adultery.

I think if the destruction that is causes is talked about more and more, we will find the road to laws that protect from the great harm porn causes to all parties involved.

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 11:16 AM
Porn Kills

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:18 AM
Unfortunately everything we see on tv and movies and ads leads to porn. Porn is big business

Sadly PJ the almighty dollar is fighting against those being harmed by porn.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Porn Kills

No doubt.

http://danielrjennings.org/TheAverageLifeExpectancyOfAPornStar.html

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 11:28 AM
I think if the destruction that is causes is talked about more and more, we will find the road to laws that protect from the great harm porn causes to all parties involved.

Because this strategy has worked for all other political issues.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:35 AM
Because this strategy has worked for all other political issues.

You brought up changing the laws. I'm not holding my breath. As I said the real hope to fight is Christ.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 11:41 AM
Over 50 percent of Pastors in a poll.

http://www.crosswalk.com/.../pastors.../how-many-porn-addicts...

"The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8
Not to watch people suffer in bondage to the evil one.

HisServant
March 14th, 2016, 01:06 PM
A freewill choice that is destructive in so many ways.

If you guys had your way... we had better find another Australia to house our prisoners as there will not be enough room.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 01:44 PM
You brought up changing the laws. I'm not holding my breath. As I said the real hope to fight is Christ.

You are solidly confused. He died on the cross for sin. Not so you can turn over a new leaf.

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 06:41 PM
Porn. Just a click away

Eeset
March 14th, 2016, 07:20 PM
Why are all you men so hot and bothered by porn?

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 07:22 PM
Why are all you men so hot an bothered by porn?


:chuckle:

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 07:23 PM
Why are all you men so hot an bothered by porn?
Really we should focus on women addicted to porn as well.

Lazy afternoon
March 14th, 2016, 07:28 PM
Over 50 percent of Pastors in a poll.

http://www.crosswalk.com/.../pastors.../how-many-porn-addicts...

"The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8
Not to watch people suffer in bondage to the evil one.


One has to understand the reasons why Porn is popular, in order to be set free from it.

None much care about the whys.

LA

Tambora
March 14th, 2016, 07:34 PM
It ain't in my room.

csuguy
March 14th, 2016, 08:01 PM
While the scriptures certainly ban adultery, I don't believe it bans porn. I'm not sure porn, as such, existed back then - due to technological constraints.

Lazy afternoon
March 14th, 2016, 08:16 PM
While the scriptures certainly ban adultery, I don't believe it bans porn. I'm not sure porn, as such, existed back then - due to technological constraints.

Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 08:21 PM
Elephant porn ? whaa :noway:

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:23 PM
If you guys had your way... we had better find another Australia to house our prisoners as there will not be enough room.

The debate began with the science oh how porn negatively effects the brain. Many have felt the destructiveness to the soul, as well relationships and families, it's evil through and through, and porn sets itself as slave master to all those who idolize it. Its no trivial matter.
The fact is free speech is limited if it causes harm. Porn is without question destructive to all.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:36 PM
You are solidly confused. He died on the cross for sin. Not so you can turn over a new leaf.

"To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." Ephesians 4:22-24

He gives us himself to do this.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:40 PM
Why are all you men so hot and bothered by porn?

It's evil.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:40 PM
Really we should focus on women addicted to porn as well.

It enslaves them too.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:43 PM
One has to understand the reasons why Porn is popular, in order to be set free from it.

None much care about the whys.

LA

We all looked to the world to satify our souls before we turned to Him. Some are still chasing empty promises.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 14th, 2016, 08:49 PM
While the scriptures certainly ban adultery, I don't believe it bans porn. I'm not sure porn, as such, existed back then - due to technological constraints.
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 09:12 PM
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28
Like the OP article said, something happens in the brain = addiction

csuguy
March 14th, 2016, 09:21 PM
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife. Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 09:23 PM
Acw should have a lot to add to this thread -

csuguy
March 14th, 2016, 09:26 PM
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife (which brings us back to adultery). Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?

csuguy
March 14th, 2016, 09:39 PM
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife (adultery). Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?

jamie
March 14th, 2016, 09:40 PM
In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife. Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?


In context, lust is not the same as love. Women need to be loved, not lusted after.

ClimateSanity
March 14th, 2016, 09:46 PM
In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife (adultery). Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?

If you are not looking at your wife with lustful intent several times a day, I would expect your wife to be very insulted and start looking for that very thing from other men.

csuguy
March 14th, 2016, 09:46 PM
In context, lust is not the same as love. Women need to be loved, not lusted after.

You are supposed to love everyone - even your enemies. However, you are supposed to procreate with your wife.

jamie
March 14th, 2016, 09:57 PM
You are supposed to love everyone - even your enemies.


That is brotherly love, to love a fellow human being.

And then there is erotic love. For example:


Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine. (Song of Songs 1:2)

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 10:13 PM
If you are not looking at your wife with lustful intent several times a day, I would expect your wife to be very insulted and start looking for that very thing from other men.
You're single, yes ?

csuguy
March 15th, 2016, 12:24 AM
That is brotherly love, to love a fellow human being.

And then there is erotic love. For example:


Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine. (Song of Songs 1:2)

Yes - and erotic love = lust

jamie
March 15th, 2016, 07:55 AM
Yes - and erotic love = lust


Lust is physical (of the flesh), love is spiritual (of the heart).

Your wife is part of you, why would you lust after yourself?

:idunno:

csuguy
March 15th, 2016, 07:58 AM
Lust is physical (of the flesh), love is spiritual (of the heart).

Your wife is part of you, why would you lust after yourself?

:idunno:

I've addressed love proper (we are to love everyone) - we are now speaking of "erotic love" as you referred to it, which is physical love.

jamie
March 15th, 2016, 08:10 AM
...we are now speaking of "erotic love" as you referred to it, which is physical love.



For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:16-17)

Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)

csuguy
March 15th, 2016, 10:54 PM
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:16-17)

Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)

What's your point? You realize that our marriages won't persist past this life, right? There's a reason Christ and Paul taught that it is best if you don't get married.

patrick jane
March 15th, 2016, 11:01 PM
What's your point? You realize that our marriages won't persist past this life, right? There's a reason Christ and Paul taught that it is best if you don't get married.
They did not teach that it was better to not marry, just that it was honorable.

patrick jane
March 15th, 2016, 11:24 PM
Porn. It's what's for dinner. Tonight

Lazy afternoon
March 15th, 2016, 11:37 PM
If you are not looking at your wife with lustful intent several times a day, I would expect your wife to be very insulted and start looking for that very thing from other men.

Rubbish.

Nihilo
March 16th, 2016, 02:15 AM
Lust (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2351). It is against our Maker's law.

csuguy
March 16th, 2016, 04:40 AM
They did not teach that it was better to not marry, just that it was honorable.

Matthew 19:10-12 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

1 Cor 7:1-2;7-9 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband... 7 [c]Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. 8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

This is a pragmatic matter. While it is true that marriage is a good thing, it is also true that one who is married cannot devote their lives to God to the same degree that a man who is single can. He must provide for his family, worry about their material needs and desires, he must devote himself to their happiness, etc. For Christians, being unmarried means freedom to more fully devote oneself to God's will.

I disagree with Catholics making it a requirement for priests, but there are certainly benefits to it.

csuguy
March 16th, 2016, 04:44 AM
Lust (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2351). It is against our Maker's law.

Incorrect - there is no general law against lust. Rather, lust is a perfectly natural desire built into us by God for procreation - which was his first commandment to us.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 16th, 2016, 06:49 AM
In context, this is speaking of someone else's wife. Or do you think it sinful to look at your own wife with lustful intent?

You are right to say that porn wasn't directly prohibited, of course it's been an "invented evil"(Romans 1:30).But without question it is evil, sinful and destructive.

Porn is a lust/desire/heart issue, as well as a love issue.

For the married. As you later quoted "if we burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7) Paul says marry. Become one in flesh in love, and with most hope one in Spirit in Christ, God's will. In this way both can be devoted to the Lord together. As Paul also said this a difficult road/endeavor as honest married Christians will attest to. Obviously it's an offense to desire others sexually for those who are married, as Jesus said it's in effect adultery. And that betrayal is felt by parties involved.
There is the danger for the married to desire thier spouse more than God. An idol between the heart of us and God. Any good thing that God created we can turn into an idol. The good thing itself is not bad just how it sits in our heart. Do we worship the creator or things He created? (Romans 1:25)

For those that are single if you burn with passion, marry; but don't set up idols and get addicted to porn, or even wanting a spouse so badly it consumes you. The Devil is trying to tempt us into being consumed by any and everything but God. It all comes down to this.
"And he answered, "You shall love your Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." Luke 10:27
Christ values us so much, more than we can even imagine, pouring His blood out. Turning what He loves into,an object of obsession and gratification... Does any parent want that for their child? Of course not! There is nothing but lies, idols and desecration and destruction in porn. To demise of many... God help us!! Have mercy!

Jamie Gigliotti
March 16th, 2016, 06:50 AM
Christ's love and power can do more than we can ask or imagine. Certainly defeat this evil!

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 06:54 AM
http://www.covenanteyes.com/.../brain-chemicals-and-porn-add...

Science backs up what God says is harmful for us. The lie is that God is trying to keep us from enjoying ourselves. Once again it's proven He is looking out for us, because He loves us.

Not only has he given us the law to help decipher right from wrong, He has made the way out of it. Jesus can take our shame away by His love, His payment, and by that same love move our hearts to desire Him more than anything else.

God help those struggling with this great evil and the families destroyed by it.

"The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake."
Psalm 23:1-3

Amen. I agree wholeheartedly. What a sick thing to be interested in.

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 06:55 AM
Start by recriminalizing it. The same goes with sodomy and adultery.

I AGREE WITH THAT TOO.

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:02 AM
I think if the destruction that is causes is talked about more and more, we will find the road to laws that protect from the great harm porn causes to all parties involved.

It's a shame that laws are getting more and more lenient, and more toward the situations that Satan promotes. Things that were once shocking are now the norm. Satan has the world under his thumb, and it's a full-time job to stay cognizant of his designs and take our stand against him.

"That we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs." (2Corinthians 2:11)

"Take your stand against him, solid in the faith, knowing that the same things in the way of sufferings are being accomplished in the entire association of your brothers in the world." (IPeter 5:9)

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:13 AM
You are solidly confused. He died on the cross for sin. Not so you can turn over a new leaf.

I don't know what you're trying to say, but I believe that Christ expects us to turn over a new leaf.

"I entreat you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason. And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:1,2)

"Deaden your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these things, the wrath of God is coming. In those very things you, too, once walked when you used to live in them. But now really put them all away from you, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of your mouth. Do not be lying to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it." (Colossians 3:5-9)

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:19 AM
While the scriptures certainly ban adultery, I don't believe it bans porn. I'm not sure porn, as such, existed back then - due to technological constraints.

I would say that the scriptures ban porn. What are the principles we learn from the scriptures? Avoid "uncleanness," "fornication," "whatever is ugly & of ill repute."

Porn is like watching those things just mentioned. Why would we want to do that?

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:25 AM
You are supposed to love everyone - even your enemies. However, you are supposed to procreate with your wife.

The Christian congregation is nowhere told that we must procreate. But Christian men are told to love their wives.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for her..." (Ephesians 5:25)

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:27 AM
Yes - and erotic love = lust

Unless it's directed toward one's marriage mate.

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 07:32 AM
What's your point? You realize that our marriages won't persist past this life, right? There's a reason Christ and Paul taught that it is best if you don't get married.

I believe that married people will still be married after Armageddon, right into the Paradise Earth. Possibly, also, people who are resurrected will be able to marry in the new world. When Jesus said that in the resurrection people will be like the angels---unmarried---he was talking about those that participate in the FIRST resurrection......of the holy ones who will reign with him in heaven.

ClimateSanity
March 16th, 2016, 07:57 AM
Lust (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2351). It is against our Maker's law.

If it is then the maker contradicted himself when he said to be fruitful and multiply. You cannot make babies without lust...impossible.

ClimateSanity
March 16th, 2016, 08:01 AM
The Christian congregation is nowhere told that we must procreate. But Christian men are told to love their wives.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for her..." (Ephesians 5:25)

Be fruitful and multiply. That goes for christian congregations too.

patrick jane
March 16th, 2016, 08:16 AM
Matthew 19:10-12 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

1 Cor 7:1-2;7-9 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband... 7 [c]Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. 8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

This is a pragmatic matter. While it is true that marriage is a good thing, it is also true that one who is married cannot devote their lives to God to the same degree that a man who is single can. He must provide for his family, worry about their material needs and desires, he must devote himself to their happiness, etc. For Christians, being unmarried means freedom to more fully devote oneself to God's will.

I disagree with Catholics making it a requirement for priests, but there are certainly benefits to it.


Hogwash :chuckle: - I never married. I'm better than most men

serpentdove
March 16th, 2016, 08:21 AM
Pr 20:6, Mt 5:28

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 08:52 AM
There's a reason Christ and Paul taught that it is best if you don't get married.


Yes, they had a simple reason, Jacob's people were about to be scattered to the four winds.


A time to love and a time to hate, a time of war and a time of peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8)

Israel was facing a time of war they could not win. This was not a time to start a family.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 09:01 AM
Incorrect - there is no general law against lust. Rather, lust is a perfectly natural desire built into us by God for procreation - which was his first commandment to us.


Lust is internal based on a desire to please one's self. Love is outgoing based on a desire to please one's mate.

They are not the same.

With regard to sex in marriage your body is not your own. (1 Corinthians 7:4)

ClimateSanity
March 16th, 2016, 09:25 AM
Lust is internal based on a desire to please one's self. Love is outgoing based on a desire to please one's mate.

They are not the same.

With regard to sex in marriage your body is not your own. (1 Corinthians 7:4)

Your definition of lust as regards marriage is hogwash.

patrick jane
March 16th, 2016, 09:35 AM
Porn. . . It's what's for lunch. . . Today

Nihilo
March 16th, 2016, 10:22 AM
Incorrect - there is no general law against lust. Rather, lust is a perfectly natural desire built into us by God for procreation - which was his first commandment to us.I disagree with your usage/meaning of the word lust. Our Magisterium does too, which is primarily why I disagree with you. They teach that, "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes." (Source found in my post to which you're responding.) In that definition they treat the matters of procreation and physical unity explicitly, and distinguish those things from lust.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 16th, 2016, 11:32 AM
Your definition of lust as regards marriage is hogwash.

It's about idolization. Do we desire anything above God?

Jamie Gigliotti
March 16th, 2016, 11:36 AM
I disagree with your usage/meaning of the word lust. Our Magisterium does to, which is primarily why I disagree with you. They teach that, "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes." (Source found in my post to which you're responding.) In that definition they treat the matters of procreation and physical unity explicitly, and distinguish those things from lust.

Defines the matter well. Spouses can objectified. A mean to fulfilling one's desires alone without regard for the spouse's will or pleasure, or unity .Is self gratification the only goal?

serpentdove
March 16th, 2016, 12:02 PM
Porn. . . It's what's for lunch. . . Today"Like a slab of meat hanging in a butcher's window." ~ Bob Enyart

Beef It's What's For Dinner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZoyE1B7HHA) http://bajaboatowners.com/images/smilies/stripper.gif ~ Sam Elliott

Tambora
March 16th, 2016, 12:04 PM
Hogwash :chuckle: - I never married. I'm better than most menDo you have children?

serpentdove
March 16th, 2016, 12:09 PM
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI) ~ Gomer Pyle

Donald Trump’s Misogyny, Out of the Mouths of http://bajaboatowners.com/images/smilies/stripper.gif Ordinary (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/us/politics/donald-trumps-misogyny-out-of-the-mouths-of-ordinary-women.html) Jer. 13:27

Also see:

:banana: Wicked presidents (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4124268#poststop):Nineveh:

Rusha
March 16th, 2016, 12:51 PM
Porn. . . It's what's for lunch. . . Today

It's not an amusing topic, Patrick. Porn objectifies women.

Nihilo
March 16th, 2016, 12:58 PM
While the Bible is silent on porn, our Magisterium is not:
Text 2354 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2354) Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 01:03 PM
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise. ~ Gomer Pyle


For those who didn't know, on January 30, 2013 Jim Nabors "married" his male partner of 38 years in Seattle. (LA Times)

Quetzal
March 16th, 2016, 01:07 PM
It's not an amusing topic, Patrick. Porn objectifies women.
Yep, additionally there are health risks involved as well. (Pretty sure someone mentioned that earlier)

serpentdove
March 16th, 2016, 01:20 PM
[The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14] http://vananne.com/serpentdove/stripper.gifheterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).] For those who didn't know, on January 30, 2013 Jim Nabors "married" his male partner of 38 years in Seattle. (LA Times)

:smack:

As a reminder Jamie is number 18 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

jamie
March 16th, 2016, 03:49 PM
As a reminder Jamie is number 18 on...


As a reminder, I could not care less about your list.

:yawn:

csuguy
March 16th, 2016, 09:26 PM
I disagree with your usage/meaning of the word lust. Our Magisterium does too, which is primarily why I disagree with you. They teach that, "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes." (Source found in my post to which you're responding.) In that definition they treat the matters of procreation and physical unity explicitly, and distinguish those things from lust.

Instead of quoting what the "Magisterium" hand down - you should be looking at their arguments and, if they be found good, present those arguments. There can be no real discussion otherwise. Or, if I provide you with a separate definition from another authoritative source - would you accept it? No - so it's better to stick with generally accepted definitions as the basis of one's discussions.

Lust is simply an innate physical desire that we are all born with, and it is a God given desire such that we are led to procreation. There is nothing "disorderly" about it in of itself, nothing sinful. It is rather good and has a clear purpose. That is why God commands wives not to deny their husbands, and visa-versa.

However, we know that just because a desire in one context is good does not mean that the desire cannot be misdirected or that we cannot act on a good desire in a sinful manner. As we know: Good intentions pave the road to hell. Rape, even with the intention of procreation, is sinful. Thus there are more important factors in the evaluation than simply procreation. On the other hand, homosexual relations are sinful as well - so we can't simply dismiss the importance of natural relations either.

Nevertheless, if a woman or man is barren/shooting blanks, that does not thereby invalidate one's marriage or the command that a wife and husband are not to deny each other. Rather, to divorce because of this would be a sin, and to cease having sex simply because one or the other, or even both, are incapable of reproduction would likewise be a sin. Thus marriage and sex are not simply a matter of procreation, though arguably the primary purpose thereof. Marriage and sex also legitimately serve a purpose even in the absence of the potential of procreation: a satisfactory marriage, an intimate bond, etc. Indeed, sex is a major driving force in the forming of social bonds - either directly or indirectly.

Now, back on to the matter of porn - let us explicitly limit ourselves to the matter of self-pleasure, as I believe that is more or less what you and others are focused on. You say self-pleasure is wrong for it serves no purpose. Yet doesn't it? Does it not allow one to satisfy their own desires without, say, paying for a prostitute instead? And it doesn't harm anybody - no illegitimate children or diseases. And if it hurts no one, and goes against none of God's commands, why should you say it is wrong, a sin?

Of course one left with self-pleasure as their only recourse would generally agree that sex with another is more desirable - but one cannot simply rush out and marry whomever. Given this fact, it is better that they resort to self-pleasure rather than illegitimate relations with another.

patrick jane
March 16th, 2016, 09:34 PM
It's not an amusing topic, Patrick. Porn objectifies women.
What about gay guy porn ?

csuguy
March 16th, 2016, 09:49 PM
While the Bible is silent on porn, our Magisterium is not:
Text 2354 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2354) Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

You know what other markets cater to base pleasures for profit? Most if not all of 'em. They identify people's desires (tasty food, good music, comfortable clothes, pretty homes, entertainment, etc.)and they supply a means of satisfying those desires for a profit. These are not bad markets because they exist to satisfy our desires nor because they do so for profit. You need to dig deeper than that - are they satisfying desires in a sinful manner (ex. prostitutes), are they using sinful means to supply their goods/services (ex. slave labor), etc.

Now, this where you actually can make some good arguments against the porn industry. Not against porn as a concept, but porn as it is actually produced and delivered. For indeed, the porn industry uses money to draw women in, especially young women who need money, and exploits them - pushing them into ever more depraved acts. Adultery is par for the course. And then you can get into human trafficking and such. I would definitely agree that the porn industry is sinful as hell.

On the other hand, what if we limited the discussion to drawn or cgi porn? Or photos of random naked men/women who were not engaging in sexual acts? While still not as desireable as an actual wife/husband, are you breaking any of God's commands with such things? Are you harming anyone? I think it extreme to say any kind of porn or sexual imagery is sinful and bad. Especially when you aren't supplying an alternative for how sexual desires are supposed to be satisfied for one who isn't married.

Rusha
March 16th, 2016, 11:02 PM
What about gay guy porn ?

Porn is degrading to anyone who participates in it ... regardless of gender or sexuality.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 19th, 2016, 09:02 PM
You know what other markets cater to base pleasures for profit? Most if not all of 'em. They identify people's desires (tasty food, good music, comfortable clothes, pretty homes, entertainment, etc.)and they supply a means of satisfying those desires for a profit. These are not bad markets because they exist to satisfy our desires nor because they do so for profit. You need to dig deeper than that - are they satisfying desires in a sinful manner (ex. prostitutes), are they using sinful means to supply their goods/services (ex. slave labor), etc.

Now, this where you actually can make some good arguments against the porn industry. Not against porn as a concept, but porn as it is actually produced and delivered. For indeed, the porn industry uses money to draw women in, especially young women who need money, and exploits them - pushing them into ever more depraved acts. Adultery is par for the course. And then you can get into human trafficking and such. I would definitely agree that the porn industry is sinful as hell.

On the other hand, what if we limited the discussion to drawn or cgi porn? Or photos of random naked men/women who were not engaging in sexual acts? While still not as desireable as an actual wife/husband, are you breaking any of God's commands with such things? Are you harming anyone? I think it extreme to say any kind of porn or sexual imagery is sinful and bad. Especially when you aren't supplying an alternative for how sexual desires are supposed to be satisfied for one who isn't married.

What does attempts at self gratification do? It keeps us from connecting with others in meanigful ways. For some it removes the personal work necessary to become the person suitable for a spouse. It leaves our souls hungry for the contentment only found in Christ. Self gratification is a lie.

patrick jane
March 19th, 2016, 09:04 PM
Porn. It's what's for breakfast. This morning.

Rusha
March 19th, 2016, 09:25 PM
Porn. It's what's for breakfast. This morning.

Not in my home ...

csuguy
March 19th, 2016, 10:23 PM
What does attempts at self gratification do? It keeps us from connecting with others in meanigful ways. For some it removes the personal work necessary to become the person suitable for a spouse. It leaves our souls hungry for the contentment only found in Christ. Self gratification is a lie.

It does not keep us from connecting with others in a meaningful way - that's ridiculous. People don't resort to it to escape from having a relationship, but rather because they lack one. Furthermore, even if they did use it to escape the need of an intimate relationship, so what? Remaining celibate is something the scriptures endorse.

Lazy afternoon
March 19th, 2016, 11:25 PM
Porn carries an evil spirit to infect the minds and hearts of the weak, which most every man is.

Women are infected by another evil spirit.



LA

Jamie Gigliotti
March 21st, 2016, 05:59 AM
It does not keep us from connecting with others in a meaningful way - that's ridiculous. People don't resort to it to escape from having a relationship, but rather because they lack one. Furthermore, even if they did use it to escape the need of an intimate relationship, so what? Remaining celibate is something the scriptures endorse.

1 Corinthians 7 leaves two options for those desire to honor the Lord.

Get married if you burn with passion, or devote yourself solely to the Lord, "to be holy in body and spirit". (1 Corinthians 7:34)

The things of the flesh and the world are at war with the soul.

"Beloved I urge you as sojourners and exiles to obatain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul." 1 Peter 2:11

No one is ever edified by coveting.

PureX
March 21st, 2016, 08:41 AM
The pornography itself has no power over anyone, good or bad, that they don't give it. Those who become "damaged by it" were damaged to begin with. The porn only gave their damaged hearts and minds a focal point for expressing that damage.

Blaming porn is basically irrational and ineffective because it ignores the damage that already exists in people that pornography only makes evident. We need to address that damage, itself, and not blame it all on the means by which the damage becomes evident.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 21st, 2016, 08:59 AM
The pornography itself has no power over anyone, good or bad, that they don't give it. Those who become "damaged by it" were damaged to begin with. The porn only gave their damaged hearts and minds a focal point for expressing that damage.

Blaming porn is basically irrational and ineffective because it ignores the damage that already exists in people that pornography only makes evident. We need to address that damage, itself, and not blame it all on the means by which the damage becomes evident.
Just as one can't blame crack. But it is wise to the recognize the very real danger.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 21st, 2016, 09:01 AM
Porn carries an evil spirit to infect the minds and hearts of the weak, which most every man is.

Women are infected by another evil spirit.



LA

Undoubtedly the spiritual dark forces are at work. Tempting, lying, deceiving...

PureX
March 21st, 2016, 09:15 AM
Just as one can't blame crack. But it is wise to the recognize the very real danger.Drugs are physically dangerous, and physically addictive. Pornography is not. So they are not particularly analogous in some crucial ways.

I am against the legalization of prostitution because it is the deliberate exploitation and abuse of one human being by another, for profit. But not all pornography is similarly exploitive. Selling an image of a human being's body is not the same as selling a human being's physical body. And so does not carry the same exploitative ramifications.

patrick jane
March 21st, 2016, 09:16 AM
Drugs are physically dangerous, and physically addictive. Pornography is not. So they are not particularly analogous in some crucial ways.

I am against the legalization of prostitution because it is the deliberate exploitation and abuse of one human being by another, for profit. But not all pornography is similarly exploitive. Selling an image of a human being's body is not the same as selling a human being's physical body. And so does not carry the same exploitative ramifications.


Porn is addictive and mentally harmful, which carries over to physical

PureX
March 21st, 2016, 10:18 AM
Porn is addictive and mentally harmful, which carries over to physicalThere is nothing about pornography, in itself, that is addictive. When people look at pornography, their bodies do not crave looking at more of it because it creates no physical dependency. It is only psychologically addictive, and then only for people with pre-existing psychological conditions that cause them to be vulnerable to it. In this way it is different from alcohol and drugs, and is more akin to something like a gambling addiction.

For the addict, it is a serious problem. But I don't believe that warrants denying it to society as a whole. Just as we don't deny alcohol, gambling, and tobacco to society as a whole just because some people will become horribly addicted to it.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 21st, 2016, 10:31 AM
There is nothing about pornography, in itself, that is addictive. When people look at pornography, their bodies do not crave looking at more of it because it creates no physical dependency. It is only psychologically addictive, and then only for people with pre-existing psychological conditions that cause them to be vulnerable to it. In this way it is different from alcohol and drugs, and is more akin to something like a gambling addiction.

For the addict, it is a serious problem. But I don't believe that warrants denying it to society as a whole. Just as we don't deny alcohol, gambling, and tobacco to society as a whole just because some people will become horribly addicted to it.

You are ignoring the truth.
Read the article in the 1st, post.
It releases pleasure hormones in large quanities that become addicting, which are designed to be used during sex between two loving partners.

Its not natural to get aroused watching porn and it is harmful to the brain and the soul, which are connected.

Porn also devalues the participants. Something to be lusted after instead of cherished.

patrick jane
March 21st, 2016, 10:33 AM
There is nothing about pornography, in itself, that is addictive. When people look at pornography, their bodies do not crave looking at more of it because it creates no physical dependency. It is only psychologically addictive, and then only for people with pre-existing psychological conditions that cause them to be vulnerable to it. In this way it is different from alcohol and drugs, and is more akin to something like a gambling addiction.

For the addict, it is a serious problem. But I don't believe that warrants denying it to society as a whole. Just as we don't deny alcohol, gambling, and tobacco to society as a whole just because some people will become horribly addicted to it.

Good points, however it is more available than ever to young children whose brains and bodies are still developing, creating more potential pervs.

patrick jane
March 21st, 2016, 10:34 AM
Porn. The other white meat.

PureX
March 21st, 2016, 10:39 AM
Good points, however it is more available than ever to young children whose brains and bodies are still developing, creating more potential pervs.Or, it may be de-mystifying human sexuality for young people in a way that will make them less vulnerable to becoming obsessed with pornographic imagery, and the idea of sexual perversion. There have been many studies over the years showing a direct link between the social repression of sexuality and the individual obsession with it.

Rusha
March 21st, 2016, 11:41 AM
Porn. It's what's for breakfast. This morning.


Porn is addictive and mentally harmful, which carries over to physical

I wish you would decide if porn is truly innocent and something to make jokes about ... OR if it's actually harmful.

patrick jane
March 21st, 2016, 12:17 PM
I wish you would decide if porn is truly innocent and something to make jokes about ... OR if it's actually harmful.
It may be more acceptable for men since we start seeing it at a young age and it's like ok among guys to watch it and talk about it. I think it does degrade women and can be harmful, leading unstable men to commit rape or at minimum become obsessed with porn. The joking guy comes out in me at times and I don't try holding it back, it keeps me young. I only had 4 good ones, mostly the same - Breakfast, lunch and dinner and porn instead of pork, so the jokes are finished.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 21st, 2016, 12:27 PM
It may be more acceptable for men since we start seeing it at a young age and it's like ok among guys to watch it and talk about it. I think it does degrade women and can be harmful, leading unstable men to commit rape or at minimum become obsessed with porn. The joking guy comes out in me at times and I don't try holding it back, it keeps me young. I only had 4 good ones, mostly the same - Breakfast, lunch and dinner and porn instead of pork, so the jokes are finished.

I took it as an attempt to lighten heavy subject matter.
Don't worry, I sometimes am the only one that laughs at my jokes. Lol

patrick jane
March 21st, 2016, 12:32 PM
I took it as an attempt to lighten heavy subject matter.
Don't worry, I sometimes am the only one that laughs at my jokes. Lol

That's how I saw it too, just making fun of a serious issue

Jamie Gigliotti
March 22nd, 2016, 05:40 PM
Call a spade a spade. Porn is evil through and through.

https://youtu.be/1NWfys7q4x4

patrick jane
March 22nd, 2016, 06:43 PM
Somebody here said only those with prior mental illness can be obsessed and addicted to porn. People that are sociopaths like Ted Bundy as one example, porn is evil in the hands of evil. The question is, can porn change normal people into obsessed addicts ?

Crucible
March 22nd, 2016, 06:49 PM
Porn Kills

:rotfl:

Rusha
March 22nd, 2016, 07:24 PM
The question is, can porn change normal people into obsessed addicts ?

Nah ... those who seek out porn are ALREADY obsessed addicts ... of smut. Not every male views porn ... it's what separates the men (nonviewers) from the boys.

patrick jane
March 22nd, 2016, 07:29 PM
Nah ... those who seek out porn are ALREADY obsessed addicts ... of smut. Not every male views porn ... it's what separates the men (nonviewers) from the boys.

So then the question becomes, when and how does the mental disorder occur. When is the trigger for a person to begin craving porn and/or watching smut. It seems stag parties and men watching porn together goes way back. What gives ?

Rusha
March 22nd, 2016, 07:45 PM
So then the question becomes, when and how does the mental disorder occur. When is the trigger for a person to begin craving porn and/or watching smut. It seems stag parties and men watching porn together goes way back. What gives ?

I don't believe it is a mental disorder but rather a purposeful choosing based on a person's values and how they were brought up. There is a specific misogyny and disrespect of women that begins at a young age.

patrick jane
March 22nd, 2016, 08:21 PM
What about soft porn and romantic scenes in movies and on TV ? What about sex toys for women, is that normal ?

Nihilo
March 22nd, 2016, 08:36 PM
"2351 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2351) Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes."

"1866 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#1866) Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices. They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia."

Best regards.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 23rd, 2016, 06:03 AM
Nah ... those who seek out porn are ALREADY obsessed addicts ... of smut. Not every male views porn ... it's what separates the men (nonviewers) from the boys.

That is not true. Teenage boys are tempted, they all have smart phones and very few have parents that have them controlled. They don't have the power, unless they are filled with the Holy Spirit, to resist the temptation, which very few are.They hide it, they can watch in private. I asked my 14 year son yesterday, how many kids does he know that watch it? He said everyone. We need to wake up this is an epidemic of evil! It is impacting so many in very dark ways.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 23rd, 2016, 06:06 AM
"2351 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2351) Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes."

"1866 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#1866) Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices. They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia."

Best regards.
Thank you for your contributions!

Crucible
March 23rd, 2016, 04:20 PM
Somebody here said only those with prior mental illness can be obsessed and addicted to porn. People that are sociopaths like Ted Bundy as one example, porn is evil in the hands of evil. The question is, can porn change normal people into obsessed addicts ?

'Porn addiction' is just a label given to those who differ from those who actively seek out sex. It's really a mutual thing, which stems from the same thing.

I think it's foolish to look at those with an alleged addiction of pornography to be the 'victims'- the men and women who are involved in them are the victims, and their parents as well- who wants to be shamed with such a child? And what becomes of them..

PureX
March 23rd, 2016, 04:37 PM
You are ignoring the truth.
Read the article in the 1st, post.
It releases pleasure hormones in large quanities that become addicting, which are designed to be used during sex between two loving partners.

Its not natural to get aroused watching porn and it is harmful to the brain and the soul, which are connected.

Porn also devalues the participants. Something to be lusted after instead of cherished.Addiction is not caused by the existence of these chemicals or the circumstances of their effect. It is caused by an inability to control our reaction to them. Just as with the excitement induced by gambling, extreme sports, and other human activities that cause our brains to produce these chemicals.

The problem is the inability to control our reactions to them, not the chemicals themselves, nor the stimuli that induces them.

Again, you're not addressing the real problem, and you're proposing we deny everyone access to aspects of life that only a few among us cannot control their reactions to. And you don't have that right.

Crucible
March 23rd, 2016, 04:39 PM
Pornography is a cater to sexually frustrated men.

It's probably saved a lot of incidences of rape from happening.

But
Only at the cost of young women making shameful idols of their self for the weakness of men.

Though it's predominantly this way, pornography does just the same to many lonely women, and perpetuates homosexual deviance.

Nonetheless, I do not think this subject is something that should be subject to the viewers. The focus should be on the producers thereof- just like with drugs, it's the dealer who is the destroyer, not the user.

patrick jane
March 23rd, 2016, 06:46 PM
59 % of women are crazy :kookoo:

Jamie Gigliotti
March 24th, 2016, 12:14 PM
Addiction is not caused by the existence of these chemicals or the circumstances of their effect. It is caused by an inability to control our reaction to them. Just as with the excitement induced by gambling, extreme sports, and other human activities that cause our brains to produce these chemicals.

The problem is the inability to control our reactions to them, not the chemicals themselves, nor the stimuli that induces them.

Again, you're not addressing the real problem, and you're proposing we deny everyone access to aspects of life that only a few among us cannot control their reactions to. And you don't have that right.

The real problem is not having the power of the Holy Spirit, to avoid the temptations, the natural addicting nature of submitting to the temptation. I've already addressed that. So there are two issues one needing Christ, the second is the evil that is infecting many through Porn.

Ktoyou
March 24th, 2016, 12:35 PM
I think if the destruction that is causes is talked about more and more, we will find the road to laws that protect from the great harm porn causes to all parties involved.

If you need laws to guide your life, you are dead already

Ktoyou
March 24th, 2016, 12:39 PM
Somebody here said only those with prior mental illness can be obsessed and addicted to porn. People that are sociopaths like Ted Bundy as one example, porn is evil in the hands of evil. The question is, can porn change normal people into obsessed addicts ?

No. porn cannot change normal people.

Ted Bundy was not a sociopath; he did not have any history of childhood conduct disorder. and he was not a social misfit, he was a psychopath. Big difference

Jamie Gigliotti
March 25th, 2016, 11:25 AM
If you need laws to guide your life, you are dead already

We have laws and law enforcement to protect people. As love protects (1 Corinthians 13), whithout which we would have chaos.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 25th, 2016, 11:27 AM
No. porn cannot change normal people.

Ted Bundy was not a sociopath; he did not have any history of childhood conduct disorder. and he was not a social misfit, he was a psychopath. Big difference

Normal as in control by the flesh? Controlled by the flesh and then introduce porn to masses of teens controlled by it. We now have an epidemic of evil.

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 11:45 AM
Normal as in control by the flesh? Controlled by the flesh and then introduce porn to masses of teens controlled by it. We now have an epidemic of evil.

You must be a little nuts.

I am relatively normal and have seen one playboy magazine, the one with Marlin Monroe.

My four children are normal; they my have looked at these magazines, especially the boys (remember, there was playgirl then) and it was no more than a teenage to young adult distraction.

I have several grandchildren, none who have been anymore affected by the same.

Beyond this, I worked in Texas prison system, few were there for porn, or few rapists were found to have been motivated by porn. The porm effects a small minority of sexually abnormal persons who are fearful of human sexual relations, the same as those who had sexual fetishes; they are usually more social misfits than criminals.

Pornography is an issue taken up by some of the Christian Right, and then taken out of context. The few cases are made to be portrayed as normal and the standard reaction for all, even though only the 'vulnerable' persons are twisted by it. This is the same tactic used so often by liberals; they take to worst situation and state it is the norm. This is all part of the 'political correct' nonsense; taking the extreme, and then stating it as the norm, so all have to mind the new rules for the few extremely stupid.

Nihilo
March 25th, 2016, 11:55 AM
You must be a little nuts.

I am relatively normal and have seen one playboy magazine, the one with Marlin Monroe.You're not relatively normal then.

In a good way!

serpentdove
March 25th, 2016, 12:11 PM
Christian and Secular Leaders Coming Together April 4-7 to Seek Solutions to Negative Impact of Pornography on the Church, on Individuals and Families, and in Society (http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/5922777594.html)

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 12:12 PM
Here is how PC works.

We have one case of a Negro slave beaten; all Negro slaves were beaten like this.23781

We have a case of a man shooting many persons with a gun, all persons will shoot people with guns.

We have a case of a person who claims porn lead him to murder, all persons who view porn will murder.


It is always the same, take the worst case and make it the norm. This is what many people are sick of today, and I don't blame them!

Jamie Gigliotti
March 25th, 2016, 05:19 PM
Christian and Secular Leaders Coming Together April 4-7 to Seek Solutions to Negative Impact of Pornography on the Church, on Individuals and Families, and in Society (http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/5922777594.html)

Thank you, as you can see there is an uphill battle as the dangers even 'Christians' seem oblivious too. But thankfully not all as the summit attests to.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 25th, 2016, 05:22 PM
Here is how PC works.

We have one case of a Negro slave beaten; all Negro slaves were beaten like this.23781

We have a case of a man shooting many persons with a gun, all persons will shoot people with guns.

We have a case of a person who claims porn lead him to murder, all persons who view porn will murder.


It is always the same, take the worst case and make it the norm. This is what many people are sick of today, and I don't blame them!

They are having a summit because the research is showing the damage Porn is causing. Thank God it hasn't effected no one in your family negatively, but that is probably unlikely. It is done in secret.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 25th, 2016, 05:24 PM
Here is how PC works.

We have one case of a Negro slave beaten; all Negro slaves were beaten like this.23781

We have a case of a man shooting many persons with a gun, all persons will shoot people with guns.

We have a case of a person who claims porn lead him to murder, all persons who view porn will murder.


It is always the same, take the worst case and make it the norm. This is what many people are sick of today, and I don't blame them!

I think this post will offend people.

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 05:30 PM
I think this post will offend people.

It will offend those who worship at the alter of the politically correct. People like you.

Crucible
March 25th, 2016, 06:35 PM
They are having a summit because the research is showing the damage Porn is causing. Thank God it hasn't effected no one in your family negatively, but that is probably unlikely. It is done in secret.

I'd like an example of 'damage', because the only case I know of personally, within my circle, is this:

A friend of mine's brother looked at pornography. His wife had found it on his PC, and upon the discovery, went exactly as a person would after finding out their significant other was having an affair.

The man sold his Xbox, his PC, and the entire family literally split for months- this was entirely due to his crazily religious wife.

Pornography didn't do the damage- she did. She's the one who wasn't satisfying him, has extreme control issues, and for being religious, can't see her own wrong in it all.
But people aren't going to all see it that way- as per usual, the man just takes the big whip in the back and denounce an external object.


You can't fix some sort of 'porn problem' in society without fundamentally changing the gambit of society whose entire gender mingling is built on vanity.

Rusha
March 25th, 2016, 06:46 PM
I'd like an example of 'damage', because the only case I know of personally, within my circle, is this:

A friend of mine's brother looked at pornography. His wife had found it on his PC, and upon the discovery, went exactly as a person would after finding out their significant other was having an affair.

The man sold his Xbox, his PC, and the entire family literally split for months- this was entirely due to his crazily religious wife.

Pornography didn't do the damage- she did. She's the one who wasn't satisfying him, has extreme control issues, and for being religious, can't see her own wrong in it all.
But people aren't going to all see it that way- as per usual, the man just takes the big whip in the back and denounce an external object.


You can't fix some sort of 'porn problem' in society without fundamentally changing the gambit of society which has an entire function of vanity.

Of course you will blame a woman for her HUSBAND turning on his computer and scouring the internet for pornography. Using your standard, if she cheats, it's his fault for being controlling ... and unappealing.

Crucible
March 25th, 2016, 07:00 PM
Of course you will blame a woman for her HUSBAND turning on his computer and scouring the internet for pornography. Using your standard, if she cheats, it's his fault for being controlling ... and unappealing.

With people like you, it's never a wife's fault if the husband does something or behaves a certain way, but it's also never the wife's fault if she does the same- the man is either at blame or must be made to just obediently take it.

I'm pretty tired of the same nonsense spewed over and over on every subject of men, women, and marriage. There is never compassion for the man, and the fault always has to be 100%, affirmatively and without one letup, straight on his head- and women lap it up.

It's despicable the conflict of interest within these things. The simple fact is that if a man is watching pornography, it is almost certainly because his wife is not doing her part AS A WIFE- but you scourge, solely, the husband.

Rusha
March 25th, 2016, 07:12 PM
With people like you, it's never a wife's fault if the husband does something or behaves a certain way, but it's also never the wife's fault if she does the same- the man is either at blame or must be made to just obediently take it.

Once again, you are projecting. I never make excuses for a women to initiate violence OR cheat on their husbands or significant other. There is not one example on TOL in all of your years of posting where you have ever stated "he was wrong".


I'm pretty tired of the same nonsense spewed over and over on every subject of men, women, and marriage. There is never compassion for the man, and the fault always has to be 100%, affirmatively and without one letup, straight on his head- and women lap it up.

The nonsense you are identifying is ... your own. Neither partner (the wife OR the husband) have a valid excuse for cheating or violence.


It's despicable the conflict of interest in within these things. he simple fact is that if a man is watching pornography, it is almost certainly because his wife is not doing her part AS A WIFE- but you scourge the husband for not being a saint.

Or perhaps he is just a pervert ...

Using your standard, if a wife cheats or watches pornography, *he* is not doing his part AS A HUSBAND.

patrick jane
March 25th, 2016, 07:13 PM
It's scientific fact that men are more visually stimulated than women. Men like to see, unless the woman is objectionable -

Rusha
March 25th, 2016, 07:15 PM
It's scientific fact that men are more visually stimulated than women.

Why should this matter? Seriously. Either looking at pornography is wrong or it is okay. Which is it?

WizardofOz
March 25th, 2016, 07:20 PM
Why should this matter? Seriously. Either looking at pornography is wrong or it is okay. Which is it?

If the woman watched it, it's her fault.
If a man watched it, it's her fault.
Crucible told me so it's true

Rusha
March 25th, 2016, 07:25 PM
If the woman watched it, it's her fault.
If a man watched it, it's her fault.
Crucible told me so it's true

:chuckle:

Crucible
March 25th, 2016, 07:50 PM
There is not one example on TOL in all of your years of posting where you have ever stated "he was wrong".

That's because you all consistently put blame on men all the time. Never fails.
Even when there is a concern for men, it's always only halfway- a cheap, watered down compassion that doesn't dump accountability on women's heads much like how it's always done with men.


The nonsense you are identifying is ... your own. Neither partner (the wife OR the husband) have a valid excuse for cheating or violence.

Perfect example, right here- state a moral but don't actually acknowledge the complexity of causes or mitigation for a man doing something wrong.
With women, you'd all sit there all day and you have, especially when it comes to so called sexual harassment and violence.


Or perhaps he is just a pervert ...

A sexually frustrated man is not a 'pervert'. This is another perfect example- no compassion, at all. You may as well assign Satan as prosecutor.



Using your standard, if a wife cheats or watches pornography, *he* is not doing his part AS A HUSBAND.

Cheating and watching pornography are not the same thing, which is why the man may opt to do the lesser of the two because it's not that he wants to cheat on his wife, but his wife is also not being a wife.

Any woman who gets bent out of shape to the extent that this woman I spoke of did, they are excessively haughty and selfish, plain and simple.

Nihilo
March 25th, 2016, 07:55 PM
dopamineThis seems to me a very important point.
The topic of this thread may well be just but one of the many popular ways that dopamine junkies mainline their dopamine.
Food for thought.
:think:

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 08:30 PM
Porn is stupid. Lonely persons watch it because they lack intimacy.

ClimateSanity
March 25th, 2016, 08:33 PM
PJ. You probably should remove your last lengthy post. It is quite explicit and probably should be linked to with selected quotes that are clean and your comments.

patrick jane
March 25th, 2016, 08:34 PM
Porn is stupid. Lonely persons watch it because they lack intimacy.
And with billions of lonely people, porn is big business.

ClimateSanity
March 25th, 2016, 08:39 PM
And with billions of lonely people, porn is big business.

There is no really good reason to be lonely. Go out and make yourself available.

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 08:39 PM
It is small potatoes compared to securities fraud, where millions of innocent people lost there homes and money.

patrick jane
March 25th, 2016, 08:43 PM
There is no really good reason to be lonely. Go out and make yourself available.
:chuckle:

Crucible
March 25th, 2016, 09:28 PM
There is no really good reason to be lonely. Go out and make yourself available.

What an odd logic:

Watching porn is mortally sinful

But
It's totally cool to have sex with multiple women until one marries you

:freak:

ClimateSanity
March 25th, 2016, 09:33 PM
What an odd logic:

Watching porn is mortally sinful

But
It's totally cool to have sex with multiple women until one marries you

:freak:

You got that from what I said????

You don't have to be lonely and you don't have to have sex not to be lonely. Surely you understand that?

Crucible
March 25th, 2016, 11:34 PM
You don't have to be lonely and you don't have to have sex not to be lonely.

1st World society hinges on a 'mini-marriage' construct where you have sex with a potential partner. That's the way it is- there is nothing kosher about gentile society.

We can sit here and preach about what is holy, but let's look at reality..

Nihilo
March 27th, 2016, 10:56 AM
While the Bible is silent on porn, our Magisterium is not:
Text 2354 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2354) Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.
Habakkuk 2:15 is the closest thing to Sacred Scripture addressing the matter directly IMO. The passage seems to assume that nobody would ever voluntarily permit their neighbors to look upon them while undressed.

Job 31:1 must be read and understood IMO in the context of Job 34:3-4 & 5-6 & 7-8 & 9. I don't think that what many have read in that verse is actually there. IOW, I don't think it was a good thing, the "covenant" that he had made. Job was a legalist, is Elihu's point, again IMO.

Greg Jennings
March 27th, 2016, 11:09 AM
1st World society hinges on a 'mini-marriage' construct where you have sex with a potential partner.

That's interesting.....especially considering that America, Canada, and the European West all have lower rates of monogamous relationships than in every country in the Middle East. :think:

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 11:13 AM
That's because you all consistently put blame on men all the time. Never fails.

Wrong ... though you consistently fabricate stories and intentionally misrepresent others.


Even when there is a concern for men, it's always only halfway- a cheap, watered down compassion that doesn't dump accountability on women's heads much like how it's always done with men.

:yawn: Cool story ... perhaps someday you will grow up and meet reality.


Perfect example, right here- state a moral but don't actually acknowledge the complexity of causes or mitigation for a man doing something wrong.
With women, you'd all sit there all day and you have, especially when it comes to so called sexual harassment and violence.

Gender has nothing to do with whether or not sexual harassment and domestic violence is wrong. Why is it so hard for you to state "Men AND women need to keep their hands to themselves!"? Outside of protecting a child, there is not one good reason for either spouse to hit one another.


A sexually frustrated man is not a 'pervert'. This is another perfect example- no compassion, at all. You may as well assign Satan as prosecutor.

A sexually frustrated man is no different than a sexually frustrated woman. If either of them are cheating, they are adulterous slimebags. IF they are watching porn, aka other men and women having sex, they are a perverts.


Cheating and watching pornography are not the same thing, which is why the man may opt to do the lesser of the two because it's not that he wants to cheat on his wife, but his wife is also not being a wife.

OR he could just be an adulterous slimebag ... and pervert.


Any woman who gets bent out of shape to the extent that this woman I spoke of did, they are excessively haughty and selfish, plain and simple.

:yawn: Cool story ...

Crucible
March 27th, 2016, 11:18 AM
Exhibit A:


Wrong ... though you consistently fabricate stories and intentionally misrepresent others.



:yawn: Cool story ... perhaps someday you will grow up and meet reality.



Gender has nothing to do with whether or not sexual harassment and domestic violence is wrong. Why is it so hard for you to state "Men AND women need to keep their hands to themselves!"? Outside of protecting a child, there is not one good reason for either spouse to hit one another.



A sexually frustrated man is no different than a sexually frustrated woman. If either of them are cheating, they are adulterous slimebags. IF they are watching porn, aka other men and women having sex, they are a perverts.



OR he could just be an adulterous slimebag ... and pervert.



:yawn: Cool story ...

Where I state something and the person opposing it outright exhibits what they oppose.

Irony :Plain:

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 11:23 AM
Exhibit A:

Where I state something and the person opposing it outright exhibits what they oppose.

Irony :Plain:

It's amusing as well as telling that you were incapable of responding to my post with anything other than "you oppose what I said ... I am right, you are wrong!".

The one thing that never changes about you ... is the fact that you are always predictable.

Crucible
March 27th, 2016, 11:28 AM
It's amusing as well as telling that you were incapable of responding to my post with anything other than "you oppose what I said ... I am right, you are wrong!".

You're just repeating the same drivel, which I called you on. You pretty much affirmed what I stated :idunno:


The one thing that never changes about you ... is the fact that you are always predictable.

At least I'm consistent.

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 11:39 AM
You're just repeating the same drivel, which I called you on. You pretty much affirmed what I stated :idunno:

Oh ... here I was talking about reality as compared to your deluded, make-believe fantasy world. My bad.


At least I'm consistent.

Consistently hypocritical, misogynistic, out of touch with reality and flat out wrong.

Yep, you are consistent. :chuckle:

Crucible
March 27th, 2016, 11:48 AM
Oh ... here I was talking about reality as compared to your deluded, make-believe fantasy world. My bad.

I have time and time again showed the exact opposite to be true- you and certain others profess in perpetuating all the popular lies and biases of society. There is nothing about you all that doesn't ring with the same nonsense and attitude I could hear from a college feminist.


Consistently hypocritical, misogynistic, out of touch with reality and flat out wrong.

Yep, you are consistent. :chuckle:

You've never proven me wrong on anything of this subject, ever. That is why you all spam the word 'misogynistic' and otherwise act like a bunch of fault finding fools. Just like..

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 12:02 PM
I have time and time again showed the exact opposite to be true- you and certain others profess in perpetuating all the popular lies and biases of society.

Never happened. What you *have* done, consistently, is pound your chest in victory while declaring "I am right ... you are wrong ... cuz I say so!"


There is nothing about you all that doesn't ring with the same nonsense and attitude I could hear from a college feminist.

An attitude that men and women should keep their hands to themselves and not physically abuse one another? An attitude that unborn babies have a right to life and women and men who participate in aborting them are intentionally killing an innocent, unborn baby?


You've never proven me wrong on anything of this subject, ever.

I have used YOUR words to show you as a hypocrite who has a deep-seated disdain towards women. I didn't need to prove you make self-serving declarations for the sole purpose of attacking women at every opportunity. You prove that every time you post.


That is why you all spam the word 'misogynistic' and otherwise act like a bunch of fault finding fools. Just like..

I used the word with *you* because it's an apt description based on your attitude and words.

For example, when I say "Men and women should not hit each other and husband and wives should not cheat on one another" ... normal, moral people say "you are right".

Here's your chance.

patrick jane
March 27th, 2016, 12:26 PM
For example, when I say "Men and women should not hit each other and husband and wives should not cheat on one another" ... normal, moral people say "you are right".

Here's your chance.

What about slaps to the face ? They do that all the time in the movies, even the old movies and soap operas.

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 12:29 PM
What about slaps to the face ? They do that all the time in the movies, even the old movies and soap operas.

Sigh. There are also movies scenes that involve rape, murder and child abuse. All three of those things are ALWAYS wrong. Just because it's in a movie doesn't mean it's morally acceptable.

Epoisses
March 27th, 2016, 01:50 PM
Would wet dreams be considered pornography from God? Dreams have been traditionally thought to be the realm of the Divine.

Crucible
March 27th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Never happened. What you *have* done, consistently, is pound your chest in victory while declaring "I am right ... you are wrong ... cuz I say so!"

:doh:
'It never happened', even though the threads and posts are still on this site.

This is what you do all the time. Everyone knows and you do to, so go ahead and perpetuate another lie within your chest of them.


An attitude that men and women should keep their hands to themselves and not physically abuse one another? An attitude that unborn babies have a right to life and women and men who participate in aborting them are intentionally killing an innocent, unborn baby?


That's not the attitude you have, or others behind you. That's certainly the image you all put up, but when it comes down to it, you laugh and mock men's complaints, issues, and interests. You've all done it over and over again.
When it comes down to it, you all certainly believe in the privilege and treatment of women over men. That becomes apparent immediately as soon as these discussion turn in any direction other then you all's common trajectory.



I have used YOUR words to show you as a hypocrite who has a deep-seated disdain towards women.

Beating straw man. That's all you do. You cherry pick statements and take things out of context. You'll do it to anyone who isn't popular in your opinion, because that's what haughty women do- and why mankind was historically a patriarch :rolleyes:


I didn't need to prove you make self-serving declarations for the sole purpose of attacking women at every opportunity. You prove that every time you post.

I know it's popular to only dump trash on men, but like it's impossible to talk about Christianity without bringing up Jesus, so to is it impossible to not bring up women on a subject relevant to the sexes.

That is, if you aren't some feminized idiot and have interest in truth.


I used the word with *you* because it's an apt description based on your attitude and words.


Nah.

Just as I said above, rather.


For example, when I say "Men and women should not hit each other and husband and wives should not cheat on one another" ... normal, moral people say "you are right".


Yeah, but when it's stated all the time and someone brings up another angle to that, the ulterior bias behind it shows. Like I said, you all's trajectory- you all throw a temper tantrums when anyone dares put accountability on women.

Rusha
March 27th, 2016, 06:03 PM
:doh:
'It never happened', even though the threads and posts are still on this site.

This is what you do all the time. Everyone knows and you do to, so go ahead and perpetuate another lie within your chest of them.

All the time ... that would be going all the way back to 2007. That's an awfully broad statement for someone who has supposedly only been here for five months. :Plain:


That's not the attitude you have, or others behind you. That's certainly the image you all put up, but when it comes down to it, you laugh and mock men's complaints, issues, and interests. You've all done it over and over again.

So much so that you are incapable of even supplying evidence ... The only thing that is known is that you will ALWAYS make excuses for a men to be violent and promiscuous. BTW, I have never laughed or mocked at the complaints, issues or interests of actual men.


When it comes down to it, you all certainly believe in the privilege and treatment of women over men. That becomes apparent immediately as soon as these discussion turn in any direction other then you all's common

Again, feel free to provide examples .... or continue to rant away ....


Beating straw man. That's all you do. You cherry pick statements and take things out of context. You'll do it to anyone who isn't popular in your opinion, because that's what haughty women do- and why mankind was historically a patriarch :rolleyes:

So ... your best argument is that I am haughty and you are unpopular and angry because your dreams of living in a patriarchy will never be a reality. Got it.


I know it's popular to only dump trash on men, but like it's impossible to talk about Christianity without bringing up Jesus, so to is it impossible to not bring up women on a subject relevant to the sexes.

In all of the years you have posted, your focus has never been on Jesus.


That is, if you aren't some feminized idiot and have interest in truth.

Take out the word feminized and you have defined yourself quite accurately.


Nah.

Just as I said above, rather.

Yeah, but when it's stated all the time and someone brings up another angle to that, the ulterior bias behind it shows. Like I said, you all's trajectory- you all throw a temper tantrums when anyone dares put accountability on women.


That is your response to this statement:



For example, when I say "Men and women should not hit each other and husband and wives should not cheat on one another" ... normal, moral people say "you are right".

There is *no other angle*. Abuse and adultery are wrong. And insofar as throwing a temper tantrum ... that's some projection ...

ClimateSanity
March 27th, 2016, 06:53 PM
Would wet dreams be considered pornography from God? Dreams have been traditionally thought to be the realm of the Divine.
Dreams are a product of your subconscious, nothing else.

Epoisses
March 27th, 2016, 10:46 PM
Dreams are a product of your subconscious, nothing else.

I like my subconscious, it's better than the internet. Actually, I'm married now so it's not a problem but back in the day when I thought masturbating was the unpardonable sin it can really make you go crazy. God created sex so it's not taboo as so many Christian idiots want to make it into.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 28th, 2016, 02:41 PM
I'd like an example of 'damage', because the only case I know of personally, within my circle, is this:

A friend of mine's brother looked at pornography. His wife had found it on his PC, and upon the discovery, went exactly as a person would after finding out their significant other was having an affair.

The man sold his Xbox, his PC, and the entire family literally split for months- this was entirely due to his crazily religious wife.

Pornography didn't do the damage- she did. She's the one who wasn't satisfying him, has extreme control issues, and for being religious, can't see her own wrong in it all.
But people aren't going to all see it that way- as per usual, the man just takes the big whip in the back and denounce an external object.


You can't fix some sort of 'porn problem' in society without fundamentally changing the gambit of society whose entire gender mingling is built on vanity.

A great example of the harmful effects of porn.

In first 1 Corinthians chapter 7 Paul's warns of the dangers of spouses witholding from each other. He clearly says that it's easier for them to fall to temptation.

In the case you cited it seems the wife did not help, when she could have, her responsibility. The Husband fell to temptation, His responsibility.

But the point is a couple struggling with intimacy and then you throw in porn. Bad situations only turn much worse.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 28th, 2016, 03:02 PM
1st World society hinges on a 'mini-marriage' construct where you have sex with a potential partner. That's the way it is- there is nothing kosher about gentile society.

We can sit here and preach about what is holy, but let's look at reality..

There are two things going on here. Porn and it's negative effects on relationships and individuals in a detectable way that secularists are seeing.

The Bible is clear sin harms people, Porn demonstrates this, promiscuity demonstrates this.

So the second issue that then arises for the 'Christians' is holiness. For the 'Christian' porn represents an idol that damages Spiritually and relationally, and others again in detectable ways.

1. Porn harms and is Son.
2. For the Christian seek the Spirit's power to defeat this sin.
3. For the non-Christians turn to Christ.

Awareness of the darkness helps us defeat it with Christ.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 28th, 2016, 03:07 PM
Habakkuk 2:15 is the closest thing to Sacred Scripture addressing the matter directly IMO. The passage seems to assume that nobody would ever voluntarily permit their neighbors to look upon them while undressed.

Job 31:1 must be read and understood IMO in the context of Job 34:3-4 & 5-6 & 7-8 & 9. I don't think that what many have read in that verse is actually there. IOW, I don't think it was a good thing, the "covenant" that he had made. Job was a legalist, is Elihu's point, again IMO.

The intoxication of money to get ones neighbors clothes off. Habakkuk 2:15

Jamie Gigliotti
March 30th, 2016, 12:09 PM
https://youtu.be/pIxdnnxqK6o

Epoisses
March 31st, 2016, 12:01 AM
There are two things going on here. Porn and it's negative effects on relationships and individuals in a detectable way that secularists are seeing.

The Bible is clear sin harms people, Porn demonstrates this, promiscuity demonstrates this.

So the second issue that then arises for the 'Christians' is holiness. For the 'Christian' porn represents an idol that damages Spiritually and relationally, and others again in detectable ways.

1. Porn harms and is Son.
2. For the Christian seek the Spirit's power to defeat this sin.
3. For the non-Christians turn to Christ.

Awareness of the darkness helps us defeat it with Christ.

Porn is not the problem!! I meet so many Christians who externalize sin and say the music is sin or the porn is sin or the alcohol is sin. None of these things are sin! The sin is in my corrupt and unbelieving heart - that's where the sin is. When God cleanses our hearts by faith all of the external things cease to be a problem. If you want to cure the porn problem then preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's much more powerful.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 31st, 2016, 12:14 PM
Porn is not the problem!! I meet so many Christians who externalize sin and say the music is sin or the porn is sin or the alcohol is sin. None of these things are sin! The sin is in my corrupt and unbelieving heart - that's where the sin is. When God cleanses our hearts by faith all of the external things cease to be a problem. If you want to cure the porn problem then preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's much more powerful.
I've preached Christ on this thread He is the way to defeat this evil. This thread is about that and calling out the evil, that has been accepted as not evil, as not harmful. It is a lie from Devil and He is being called out. Recognizing evil is the first step in finding healing and victory from the Lord.

Jamie Gigliotti
March 31st, 2016, 12:17 PM
www.allprodad.com/the-effects-of-porn-on-marriage/

The harmful effects on marriages.

Jamie Gigliotti
April 20th, 2016, 02:11 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/.../utah...pornography.../83221468/

Utah declares a public health crisis.

meshak
April 20th, 2016, 02:28 PM
Christians in the military is elephant in the room too which most of you don't like to talk about.

Epoisses
April 20th, 2016, 11:23 PM
Christians in the military is elephant in the room too which most of you don't like to talk about.

I served in the army for four and half years and was in Iraq for two and had no problem for conscience sake. God sent the Israelites into battle and he sends us into battle as well. You're a legalist who's faith is almost dead. You know where all the dead branches go right?

serpentdove
May 1st, 2016, 10:12 AM
Cc: heir john w glorydaz exminister Grosnick Marowbe

Ro 6:8, 14, Col 3:3

sn7bEVnFlds

patrick jane
May 1st, 2016, 10:18 AM
Would wet dreams be considered pornography from God? Dreams have been traditionally thought to be the realm of the Divine.
Blasphemy

serpentdove
May 1st, 2016, 10:25 AM
Would wet dreams be considered pornography from God?
http://i5.ifrm.com/1038/179/emo/tmi.gif

See:

Is a wet dream / nocturnal emission a sin? (http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html)

Nihilo
May 1st, 2016, 03:33 PM
BlasphemyNot exactly, but I basically agree with you. Lust is somehow trespassing against your sister. You can logically do it, it's logically possible to do it. You can also, logically, trespass against your granddaughter, or your daughter; it's logically possible. That's a trespass. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," is how the prayer goes. ;) :) :)

Epoisses
May 1st, 2016, 05:23 PM
I AM NOT IN CONTROL OF MY DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bad dream, get back inside my head, you filthy dream you!!!!

Crucible
May 2nd, 2016, 12:04 AM
....

Jamie Gigliotti
May 2nd, 2016, 05:48 AM
"And this is the judgement: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true, so that it may be clearly seen that His works have carried out in God." John 3:19-21

I've tried living in the sin of porn, using the blood of Jesus as my scapegoat, my own personal license to sin. What a miserable loathing existence that was!
How glorious it is to say His light, His love, His power set me free from that darkness! For His glory! For His great name! Yahweh! The Great I Am! The Lord Jesus Christ!

Jamie Gigliotti
May 2nd, 2016, 05:52 AM
http://i5.ifrm.com/1038/179/emo/tmi.gif

See:

Is a wet dream / nocturnal emission a sin? (http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html)

This makes sense.

Epoisses
May 2nd, 2016, 09:32 AM
[QUOTE=Epoisses;4660897]rather nice wet dreams!

I don't have wet dreams anymore, I've only been married for 16 years. My point being that the younger folk in overbearing religious environments can feel condemned over something that is a normal bodily function. Christians and there warfare against all things sexual only create more problems than solutions.

patrick jane
May 2nd, 2016, 11:06 AM
"And this is the judgement: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true, so that it may be clearly seen that His works have carried out in God." John 3:19-21

I've tried living in the sin of porn, using the blood of Jesus as my scapegoat, my own personal license to sin. What a miserable loathing existence that was!
How glorious it is to say His light, His love, His power set me free from that darkness! For His glory! For His great name! Yahweh! The Great I Am! The Lord Jesus Christ!

Jamie Gig ? You were addicted to porn ?

Jamie Gigliotti
May 3rd, 2016, 08:02 AM
Jamie Gig ? You were addicted to porn ?

A recovering slave to sin by the grace and power and love and Spirit of Jesus. And yes that evil had its grips on me. Addict? Idk, but I can say this for sure. "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (Romans 7:15) And like I said I thank God by His Spirit I am putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13)
It was only when I prayed and asked Him for His power to find freedom over that sin that I found victory. He can and will give us victory over any sin we wish to defeat as He, "...is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us" (Ephesians 3:20).

patrick jane
May 3rd, 2016, 08:17 AM
A recovering slave to sin by the grace and power and love and Spirit of Jesus. And yes that evil had its grips on me. Addict? Idk, but I can say this for sure. "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (Romans 7:15) And like I said I thank God by His Spirit I am putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13)
It was only when I prayed and asked Him for His power to find freedom over that sin that I found victory. He can and will give us victory over any sin we wish to defeat as He, "...is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us" (Ephesians 3:20).
Amen. Praise God !!!

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 08:58 AM
The Christian congregation is nowhere told that we must procreate.

Is your Bible missing Genesis and Psalms?

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Psalm 127:3 Children are a heritage from the LORD, offspring a reward from him.

And "science" backs that up, too: You're only able to post on this forum because your parents procreated and God rewarded them.

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 09:14 AM
A recovering slave to sin by the grace and power and love and Spirit of Jesus.

Do you still sin ever?



And yes that evil had its grips on me. Addict? Idk,..

You don't know? Are you doubting the "science" you've presented? Wasn't your brain "hijacked" by porn, or did you have free will, and therefore sinned willfully?



...but I can say this for sure. "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (Romans 7:15)

If you cannot keep from doing the things you don't want to do, you lack free will. That's common sense.

Consider you are misunderstanding Romans 7:15 because Paul is not talking about wilful sin but unintentional sin, like becoming unclean by accidentally touching something unclean (Lev 5:2), or menstruation for women (Lev 15:30). If you believe looking at porn is sinful and you do it in spite of that knowledge and spirit of grace, then your fate is Hebrews 10:27-29; whereas, if you wife menstruates, she no longer is guilty of sin for that and no longer has to make atonement with God for that.




And like I said I thank God by His Spirit I am putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13)

Does that mean you no longer sin at all or that you have put this sin, and perhaps others, behind you?



It was only when I prayed and asked Him for His power to find freedom over that sin that I found victory. He can and will give us victory over any sin we wish to defeat as He, "...is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us" (Ephesians 3:20).

Over *that* sin doesn't sound like he gave you victory over every sin? Why's He holding back? Why are you?

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 09:18 AM
http://i5.ifrm.com/1038/179/emo/tmi.gif

See:

Is a wet dream / nocturnal emission a sin? (http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html)

Garbage.

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 09:20 AM
Would wet dreams be considered pornography from God?

No. Under the law they would have made you unclean. Those ordinances have been abrogated (Col 2:14).

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 09:32 AM
Not exactly, but I basically agree with you. Lust is somehow trespassing against your sister. You can logically do it, it's logically possible to do it. You can also, logically, trespass against your granddaughter, or your daughter; it's logically possible. That's a trespass. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," is how the prayer goes. ;) :) :)

We have different understandings of what lust means in a biblical context. I can see your point when I consider the word from your perspective. However, when Jesus used the word translated to lust, he used the same word as covet. Paul said he would have not known lust if the commandment had not been thou shalt not covet. Had the translators simply translated the word properly to covet instead of lust you might agree with me that the issue is covetousness not the English idea of lust per se, which may have root in covetousness.

Nihilo
May 3rd, 2016, 09:48 AM
We have different understandings of what lust means in a biblical context. I can see your point when I consider the word from your perspective. However, when Jesus used the word translated to lust, he used the same word as covet. Paul said he would have not known lust if the commandment had not been thou shalt not covet. Had the translators simply translated the word properly to covet instead of lust you might agree with me that the issue is covetousness not the English idea of lust per se, which may have root in covetousness.My view is guided and informed by, as you know or at least could guess, the Church's magisterium's teachings on the matter, and with this in mind, I've come to view what the Lord said specifically about the matter, "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart," to include our wives. We ought not lust, where lust and all its fruit is specifically the opposite of chastity. I see where and why you suggest that the idea being conveyed in Scripture is actually coveting, but the Church really opens up this concept to the truth of our natures as trespassers, and the OP topic of pornography is one of the greatest evidences that we moderns have for this potential trespass that resides within us all.

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:07 AM
[Levitical Law] Garbage.

http://vananne.com/serpentdove/spray_emoticon_by_juliatoffy-d79if3a.gif Aren't you the polygamist?

See:

PeaceMakingPolygamist (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/PeaceMakingPolygamist.htm)

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:14 AM
My view is guided and informed by, as you know or at least could guess, the Church's magisterium's teachings on the matter, and with this in mind, I've come to view what the Lord said specifically about the matter, "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart," to include our wives.

I understand. My position is that I cannot covet my wife anymore than I can covet what belongs to me. We are one flesh.



We ought not lust, where lust and all its fruit is specifically the opposite of chastity.

We ought not to covet (Exodus 20:17). Why see inordinate desire (lust) as something other than coveting? The idea of coveting is expressed in Greek words like epithumia and epithumeó, is it not?



... the OP topic of pornography is one of the greatest evidences that we moderns have for this potential trespass that resides within us all.

We are discussing acts that can be sin in one context but not sin in another context, and trying to do so without agreeing on the definitions of words. That's not a recipe for success. :)

Pornography can be a nude selfie a wife gives her husband while he's away fighting the war against ISIS; he will use it to channel his sexual desires and thoughts towards her; his nocturnal emissions will be about her. Sin or not?

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:18 AM
http://vananne.com/serpentdove/spray_emoticon_by_juliatoffy-d79if3a.gif Aren't you the polygamist?

No.

Why are you obsessed with polygamy?

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:19 AM
Thank you, as you can see there is an uphill battle as the dangers even 'Christians' seem oblivious too. But thankfully not all as the summit attests to.

They stink (Ps. 141:2). :granite:

-U1N0VOwXTc

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:22 AM
[PeaceMakingPolygamist (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/PeaceMakingPolygamist.htm)] No.

Why are you obsessed with polygamy?

You are not a polygamist?

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:25 AM
You are not a polygamist?

Playing coy? You know that I'm not a polygamist. We've been through this several times already.

So not only do you continue to falsely accuse me of being something I'm not, you pretend as if we haven't had this exchange before.

Do you think porn is worse than your false accusations? The prostitutes will enter the kingdom before you.

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:34 AM
[PeaceMakingPolygamist (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/PeaceMakingPolygamist.htm)] You know that I'm not a polygamist.

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

Meriggiare
May 3rd, 2016, 10:35 AM
Porn is stupid. Lonely persons watch it because they lack intimacy.

That barely covers it. Some lonely people watch pornography because they lack intimacy, but that isn't the only reason people watch porn.
A great deal of children view pornography too. They view it because their friends have and want to seem grown up and perhaps even "cool", they view out of curiosity, and they even view it just to entertain themselves. Most young males going through puberty in this day and age view it to "stimulate" themselves.
Summing this up and moving on; It isn't just lonely adults or lonely children, there is a huge mixed audience for pornography.

(I must note: Healthy adults in healthy relationships also use pornography. I'm not justifying it's use. Just pointing out another audience to porn that should not be overlooked.)

In this day and age porn is extremely easy to get your hands on, too easy in fact. If you just have a cell phone and wifi you can watch porn from just about anywhere in your house. If nothing else there should be more restrictions guaranteeing that even less underage people can get a hold of pornography.

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:35 AM
Pornography can be a nude selfie a wife gives her husband while he's away fighting the war against ISIS; he will use it to channel his sexual desires and thoughts towards her; his nocturnal emissions will be about her. Sin or not?

Anyone is welcome to respond to that.

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:37 AM
Anyone is welcome to respond to that.
Or not (Pr 26:4).

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me."

serpentdove
May 3rd, 2016, 10:39 AM
[PeaceMakingPolygamist (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/PeaceMakingPolygamist.htm)] "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me."

:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:

Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom (1 Co 6:9–10). :mario:

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:44 AM
:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:

Okay. Do you still sin sometimes or have you completely ceased from sin?

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 10:56 AM
(I must note: Healthy adults in healthy relationships also use pornography...

Without defining "healthy adults" and "healthy relationship" and without giving an opinion on the morality of pornography ... :idunno:

Can we agree that a married couple watching child pornography are not healthy and not in a healthy relationship? I'm sure we can agree on that.

If pornography is generally immoral, then are we really possibly talking about healthy adults in healthy relationships? Above I tried to give a specific situation where the context might make it amoral or perhaps moral. :idunno:

Meriggiare
May 3rd, 2016, 11:02 AM
Pornography can be a nude selfie a wife gives her husband while he's away fighting the war against ISIS; he will use it to channel his sexual desires and thoughts towards her; his nocturnal emissions will be about her. Sin or not?

That is correct. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact as long as it isn't degrading or used as a form of blackmail in the future there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
The only issue would be if the woman considers sending pornographic images immoral or a sin- or if the man receiving them considered it to be a immoral or a sin. Then they'd be going against what they believed in. At least in my opinion. I have a feeling some people will disagree.

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 11:05 AM
That is correct. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact as long as it isn't degrading or used as a form of blackmail in the future there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
The only issue would be if the woman considers sending pornographic imagines immoral or a sin- or if the man receiving them considered it to be a immoral or a sin. Then they'd be going against what they believed in. At least in my opinion. I have a feeling some people will disagree.

I agree with you.

Meriggiare
May 3rd, 2016, 11:23 AM
Without defining "healthy adults" and "healthy relationship" and without giving an opinion on the morality of pornography ... :idunno:
Ahem, let me define that now. I apologize for not doing that in the post. I intended to do that originally.
By my definition a healthy adult is someone who is mentally and physically sound. - No mental illnesses or physical issues. I can elaborate further on physical issues if you wish.
Secondly, a healthy relationship meaning.. well, a couple without blatant problems in their relationship. Such as differences in religion that conflict daily and cause friction. (Defining a healthy relationship would require a lengthy response. Do you get the gist of what I meant?)


Can we agree that a married couple watching child pornography are not healthy and not in a healthy relationship? I'm sure we can agree on that.
I agree with that.


If pornography is generally immoral, then are we really possibly talking about healthy adults in healthy relationships? Above I tried to give a specific situation where the context might make it amoral or perhaps moral. :idunno:
There are situations in which pornography is acceptable. Your earlier example was reasonable.

Nihilo
May 3rd, 2016, 12:39 PM
I understand. My position is that I cannot covet my wife anymore than I can covet what belongs to me. We are one flesh.Specifically during the marital act. Which prompts the question, What does it mean to covet a woman? Unless you're seeing her as a servant or labor of some sort, what else could it mean to covet a woman, except to desire to unite with her bodily? And it is in this way that coveting is distinct from lust, because we can covet possessions without wanting to unite bodily with them. (Desiring to unite with an animal or other object is also an offense against chastity.)

We ought not to covet (Exodus 20:17). Why see inordinate desire (lust) as something other than coveting?Because the Church teaches that lust is distinct, and that all offenses against chastity are transgressions against the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery, and not, Thou shalt not covet.

The idea of coveting is expressed in Greek words like epithumia and epithumeó, is it not?


We are discussing acts that can be sin in one context but not sin in another contextSee my comment below about the difference between sin and trespassing.

, and trying to do so without agreeing on the definitions of words. That's not a recipe for success. :)

Pornography can be a nude selfie a wife gives her husband while he's away fighting the war against ISIS; he will use it to channel his sexual desires and thoughts towards her; his nocturnal emissions will be about her. Sin or not?Let's discuss sin then, since I think we are at odds over this definition also, and it is perhaps the governing word in this discussion anyway.

A sin is a moral offense, which I call a trespass, that is done fully voluntarily, and that, in every way conceivable. So as to whether a trespass is a sin is all about the heart of the trespasser. And meanwhile, where there is no trespass, there can be no sin, regardless of our heart.

So with pornography, it is in and of itself a trespass or moral offense, and a grave one at that, according to the Church. Regardless, it is possible to engage in the production, distribution and consumption of pornography without ever sinning, when and only when the conditions, physical and mental and emotional and social etc., of the trespasser relegate the trespass to something other than fully free, voluntary and uncoerced. When we commit a moral offense, no matter how grave, in such circumstances, our guilt is reduced for the trespass, to either a venial (or forgiven) sin (e.g., gluttony), or it is all together eliminated.

My impression is that you believe that any bona fide moral offense (e.g., murder) is a sin, regardless of other circumstances. Is this correct?

elohiym
May 3rd, 2016, 04:18 PM
What does it mean to covet a woman? Unless you're seeing her as a servant or labor of some sort, what else could it mean to covet a woman, except to desire to unite with her bodily?

When my wife and I were single, I desired her to be my wife; that wasn't lusting, coveting or adultery, right? However, if she were married to another man at the time, I would have been committing adultery to desire her because I would be desiring to take the wife of another man. That is why Jesus called it adultery.



And it is in this way that coveting is distinct from lust, because we can covet possessions without wanting to unite bodily with them. (Desiring to unite with an animal or other object is also an offense against chastity.)

If you read Galatians 5 you'll see that the lust of the flesh isn't just about uniting bodily with the opposite sex.



Because the Church teaches that lust is distinct, and that all offenses against chastity are transgressions against the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery, and not, Thou shalt not covet.

There were two commandments in the ten; one stated don't commit adultery, the other stated don't covet your neighbor's wife. Jesus was making the point that if you violate the one against coveting you have already violated the one against adultery in your heart. It's that simple. Similarly, if you think to steal something, whether you do it or not, you have already committed the sin coveting that thing you thought to steal.



A sin is a moral offense, which I call a trespass, that is done fully voluntarily, and that, in every way conceivable. So as to whether a trespass is a sin is all about the heart of the trespasser. And meanwhile, where there is no trespass, there can be no sin, regardless of our heart.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I agree with that.



So with pornography, it is in and of itself a trespass or moral offense, and a grave one at that, according to the Church. Regardless, it is possible to engage in the production, distribution and consumption of pornography without ever sinning, when and only when the conditions, physical and mental and emotional and social etc., of the trespasser relegate the trespass to something other than fully free, voluntary and uncoerced. When we commit a moral offense, no matter how grave, in such circumstances, our guilt is reduced for the trespass, to either a venial (or forgiven) sin (e.g., gluttony), or it is all together eliminated.

You lost me there, especially the highlighted part if your first sentence is accurate.



My impression is that you believe that any bona fide moral offense (e.g., murder) is a sin, regardless of other circumstances. Is this correct?

Sin is transgression of the golden rule, the principle that summarizes the law and the prophets (Matthew 7:12). Murder is always wilful and requires malice aforethought. Taking another person's physical life was not always the sin of murder in the Bible narrative. For example, there were cities of refuge for those who killed but didn't murder.

Nihilo
May 3rd, 2016, 08:02 PM
Similarly, if you think to steal something, whether you do it or not, you have already committed the sin coveting that thing you thought to steal.Lusting is not coveting. Lusting is offense against chastity (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2349).

Taking another person's physical life was not always the sin of murder in the Bible narrative. For example, there were cities of refuge for those who killed but didn't murder.

Jamie Gigliotti
May 4th, 2016, 09:11 AM
[QUOTE=Crucible;4691515]

I don't have wet dreams anymore, I've only been married for 16 years. My point being that the younger folk in overbearing religious environments can feel condemned over something that is a normal bodily function. Christians and there warfare against all things sexual only create more problems than solutions.

Problem? Idols. Solution? Jesus Christ!

Granted most young men will suffer their prodigal child miseries of the world and pleasure leaving them high and dry before turning to Christ and finding joy and peace and contentment in Him.

That doesn't preclude us from warning young men from the misery the world offers.

Jamie Gigliotti
May 4th, 2016, 09:35 AM
Do you still sin ever?



You don't know? Are you doubting the "science" you've presented? Wasn't your brain "hijacked" by porn, or did you have free will, and therefore sinned willfully?



If you cannot keep from doing the things you don't want to do, you lack free will. That's common sense.

Consider you are misunderstanding Romans 7:15 because Paul is not talking about wilful sin but unintentional sin, like becoming unclean by accidentally touching something unclean (Lev 5:2), or menstruation for women (Lev 15:30). If you believe looking at porn is sinful and you do it in spite of that knowledge and spirit of grace, then your fate is Hebrews 10:27-29; whereas, if you wife menstruates, she no longer is guilty of sin for that and no longer has to make atonement with God for that.




Does that mean you no longer sin at all or that you have put this sin, and perhaps others, behind you?



Over *that* sin doesn't sound like he gave you victory over every sin? Why's He holding back? Why are you?
Paul paints a picture of a repentant heart in Phiilipians 3. Pressing on toward perfection. Forgetting what is behind, holding on to what we attained through Christ. (Phiilipians 3:12-16)

The point is the pressing on. Repenting.

Do we have free will. God holds us responsible for our actions. And also in His Great love and mercy gave us Himself to empower us and yes we have free will to choose and embrace His great gift.

The Holy Spirit convicts in a process gradually in the sanctification process, as we choose to take part in His way for our lives.(Romans 6:22)

elohiym
May 5th, 2016, 02:50 PM
Lusting is not coveting. Lusting is offense against chastity (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2349).

Now read section 2534 et seq. Clearly, the Church teaches that lust is covetousness, as I've claimed.


2534 The tenth commandment unfolds and completes the ninth, which is concerned with concupiscence of the flesh. It forbids coveting the goods of another, as the root of theft, robbery, and fraud, which the seventh commandment forbids. "Lust of the eyes" leads to the violence and injustice forbidden by the fifth commandment.319 Avarice, like fornication, originates in the idolatry prohibited by the first three prescriptions of the Law.320 The tenth commandment concerns the intentions of the heart; with the ninth, it summarizes all the precepts of the Law.

But let's consider the Church's definition of lust in section 2351.


2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

It's simply saying that sexual desire is covetous (lust) when it is divorced from its procreative and unitive purposes or when the enjoyment is inordinate. They offer no evidence for its unitive purpose and no examples, and do not define what is an inordinate level of enjoyment.

Regardless, section 2534 connects lust and covetousness and helps support some of what I've been arguing.

elohiym
May 5th, 2016, 03:21 PM
Paul paints a picture of a repentant heart in Phiilipians 3.

Okay.



Pressing on toward perfection.

Implies perfection is attainable in this life.



The point is the pressing on. Repenting.

Don't omit the word perfection from the point. The Lord said "be perfect."



Do we have free will.

Not according to the English definition of free will. All your choices are at least influenced by prior causes or divine intervention. We all act according to our beliefs, and until our beliefs change--and they can--we are in bondage so to speak to our current beliefs. That's really a good thing if you think about it, and is much better than the illusory idea of "free will."



God holds us responsible for our actions.

Our sins have been forgiven, no? He is trying to convince us that we are His children, and there are consequences for those who don't believe (Acts 17:28-29). Those consequences are what you may see as Him holding us responsible for our actions. The bottom line, however, is that our actions always reflect our beliefs in the moment.



The Holy Spirit convicts in a process gradually in the sanctification process, as we choose to take part in His way for our lives.(Romans 6:22)

Progressive sanctification is a deception, friend. Where are those who have been progressively sanctified to perfection? We should be seeing some of those people from time-to-time, right? But all I see mostly are people who claim they are being progressively made perfect but will never be perfect until the day they die, or a similar idea.

The foundation, the Rock, is the Son of God. Are you God's son? Yes? Good! That idea in your head is the foundation of the church. If that's true about you, that you are His son, then you are perfect, as perfect as you need to be. Perfect love is simply living by the golden rule, as the Lord taught.


43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,j 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

It should be obvious His teaching above is about the golden rule and exactly how to be perfect. If you were God's enemy, you wouldn't want Him to withhold the rain from your crops; to love perfectly, your desire as a new creation should be to provide irrigation to all your neighbors, even the ones who consider you an enemy. How much time, and "progressive sanctifying," will it take to give you such a heart?

Regarding the "science" linked in the OP, it's seems just as much an anti-masturbation argument as an anti-pornography argument, perhaps more so. Do you see self-stimulation as sinful?

Sealeaf
May 8th, 2016, 09:08 PM
As to the meaning of "covet". It goes beyond desiring to have some thing like what is coveted. It is the desire to have exactly what is coveted. If you covet a man's wife, you want to take her away from him. Not the same thing as wanting a hot, rich, wife of your own. If you covet his Mercedes, you do not want a similar car of the same model, you want to take away his car.

In our society of abundance coveting seems a bit out of date. If you desire a woman, there are 3 and a half billion to chose from. Go for it.

Jamie Gigliotti
May 10th, 2016, 12:13 PM
Okay.



Implies perfection is attainable in this life.



Don't omit the word perfection from the point. The Lord said "be perfect."



Not according to the English definition of free will. All your choices are at least influenced by prior causes or divine intervention. We all act according to our beliefs, and until our beliefs change--and they can--we are in bondage so to speak to our current beliefs. That's really a good thing if you think about it, and is much better than the illusory idea of "free will."



Our sins have been forgiven, no? He is trying to convince us that we are His children, and there are consequences for those who don't believe (Acts 17:28-29). Those consequences are what you may see as Him holding us responsible for our actions. The bottom line, however, is that our actions always reflect our beliefs in the moment.



Progressive sanctification is a deception, friend. Where are those who have been progressively sanctified to perfection? We should be seeing some of those people from time-to-time, right? But all I see mostly are people who claim they are being progressively made perfect but will never be perfect until the day they die, or a similar idea.

The foundation, the Rock, is the Son of God. Are you God's son? Yes? Good! That idea in your head is the foundation of the church. If that's true about you, that you are His son, then you are perfect, as perfect as you need to be. Perfect love is simply living by the golden rule, as the Lord taught.


43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,j 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

It should be obvious His teaching above is about the golden rule and exactly how to be perfect. If you were God's enemy, you wouldn't want Him to withhold the rain from your crops; to love perfectly, your desire as a new creation should be to provide irrigation to all your neighbors, even the ones who consider you an enemy. How much time, and "progressive sanctifying," will it take to give you such a heart?

Regarding the "science" linked in the OP, it's seems just as much an anti-masturbation argument as an anti-pornography argument, perhaps more so. Do you see self-stimulation as sinful?

1. Perfection obtainable? "Not that I have obtained all of this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own because Christ Jesus made me His own." Phiilipians 3:12

We are either pressing on to perfection (repenting), or we are not. God will judge.

2. Influenced? Influence doesn't take away choice. That's faulty logic.

"The power of acting without constraint of necessity" Oxford dictionary

We all make choices. We don't have guns to our heads, even then there is a choice.

3. Beliefs? We choose what to believe.

4.Progressive sanctification? C.S. Lewis advocated all of us are either becoming more Christ like or more devilish in there lifetimes. I witnessed this plenty to choose to believe it.

Paul said, "Transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. This comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18
Choose to believe His word.

Masturbation?
The argument for idolization is easily made.

serpentdove
August 23rd, 2016, 11:50 AM
When one lusts for a woman, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart (Mt 5:28, 1 Co 6:16, 10:13, Jas 1:15).

Jamie Gigliotti
August 25th, 2016, 07:05 AM
As to the meaning of "covet". It goes beyond desiring to have some thing like what is coveted. It is the desire to have exactly what is coveted. If you covet a man's wife, you want to take her away from him. Not the same thing as wanting a hot, rich, wife of your own. If you covet his Mercedes, you do not want a similar car of the same model, you want to take away his car.

In our society of abundance coveting seems a bit out of date. If you desire a woman, there are 3 and a half billion to chose from. Go for it.

And what Paul says to do with this desire is to take a wife so that woman can be honored and cherished and loved the way Christ loved us.

And in Porn the want, the desire is dishonoring to men and women. Love is taken totally out of the equation.

serpentdove
September 3rd, 2016, 03:10 PM
See:

How to Control Your Thought Life (http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/listen/how-to-control-your-thought-life-511720.html) by Adrian Rogers

Jamie Gigliotti
September 23rd, 2016, 10:44 AM
http://http://www.godvine.com/Pastor-s-Wife-Shares-Her-Story-Of-Recovering-From-Her-Husband-s-Sex-Addiction-9695.html


http://www.godvine.com/Pastor-s-Wife-Shares-Her-Story-Of-Recovering-From-Her-Husband-s-Sex-Addiction-9695.html

A testimony of the relationship and love destroying power of porn and the beautiful redemptive love and grace of Jesus.

Jamie Gigliotti
February 6th, 2017, 06:08 PM
"Lust prefers to take the body and discard the soul. Love deeply desires the soul, gladly receiving whatever body accompanies it." fiercemarraige.com

This strikes to the heart of the issue. Lust aims to use. Love aims to connect body and soul.

Epoisses
February 6th, 2017, 10:29 PM
If Adam and Eve had never sinned we would all be naked having porn in the woods!! Religious prude.

Jamie Gigliotti
February 9th, 2017, 12:59 PM
https://youtu.be/3yr_J3npCS0


No victims?

Jamie Gigliotti
February 9th, 2017, 01:00 PM
If Adam and Eve had never sinned we would all be naked having porn in the woods!! Religious prude.

Love seeks to do no harm, not religion.

serpentdove
March 4th, 2017, 09:24 AM
Man dies under six-ton pile of porn mags (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html) Mt 5:28

Report: Pornography Use Tied to Relationship Dissatisfaction Report: Pornography Use Tied to Relationship Dissatisfaction (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/15/report-pornography-use-tied-to-relationship-dissatisfaction/)

Interplanner
March 4th, 2017, 09:40 AM
"Lust prefers to take the body and discard the soul. Love deeply desires the soul, gladly receiving whatever body accompanies it." fiercemarraige.com

This strikes to the heart of the issue. Lust aims to use. Love aims to connect body and soul.



Excellent quote!

serpentdove
March 4th, 2017, 10:20 AM
"Lust prefers to take the body and discard the soul. Love deeply desires the soul, gladly receiving whatever body accompanies it." fiercemarraige.com

This strikes to the heart of the issue. Lust aims to use. Love aims to connect body and soul.
While they're still breathing, there is hope (2 Pet. 2:9–22). :chew: more (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/Porn%20the%20elephant%20in%20the%20room.htm)

serpentdove
March 4th, 2017, 10:45 AM
If Adam and Eve had never sinned we would all be naked having porn in the woods!! Religious prude.
:yawn: Lk 12:3, Eph 5:12, Heb 11:25 :burnlib:

serpentdove
May 5th, 2017, 01:35 PM
[Promotes polygamy Ex 20:14] ...My position is that I cannot covet my wife anymore than I can covet what belongs to me. We are one flesh...

Was she previously married when you so-called married her? Were you previously married when you so-called married her? Rom. 7:2, 3 Do you covet other people's wives? :peach: :peach: :peach: Ex 20:17

Recommend reading:

The Divorce Myth by J. Carl Laney

Nihilo
May 5th, 2017, 09:43 PM
Man dies under six-ton pile of porn mags (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4278524/Man-dies-six-ton-pile-porn-magazines.html) Mt 5:28

Report: Pornography Use Tied to Relationship Dissatisfaction Report: Pornography Use Tied to Relationship Dissatisfaction (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/15/report-pornography-use-tied-to-relationship-dissatisfaction/)" . . . According to the Gottmans, “use of pornography by one partner leads the couple to have far less sex . . . .” "