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CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 06:24 AM
Contradictions In The Quran

#1. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contradictions/
#2. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contraditions/

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 06:30 AM
The Quran is a book you only want to read once. After reading it you will think to yourself, wow, what a waste of time. And to think, there are people who actually believe in it, and live their life by it. Wow, what is wrong with those people?

chrysostom
March 14th, 2016, 06:40 AM
And to think, there are people who actually believe in it, and live their life by it.

there are also those
-who call themselves christian
-and
-they believe
-they have no free will
-they do not sin
-it is possible to believe many different things
-that is why we need the church to guide us

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 06:47 AM
there are also those
-who call themselves christian
-and
-they believe
-they have no free will
-they do not sin
-it is possible to believe many different things
-that is why we need the church to guide us

Catholicism is where our biblical corruptions come from. History and a good study bible will reveal that. Thank Yahwah that the truth is not beyond finding out.

chrysostom
March 14th, 2016, 06:56 AM
Catholicism is where our biblical corruptions come from. History and a good study bible will reveal that. Thank Yahwah that the truth is not beyond finding out.

-the church teaches free will
-the church teaches we must repent
-the church gave us the bible

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 08:12 AM
-the church teaches free will
-the church teaches we must repent
-the church gave us the bible
Catholicism has given us endless controversies over scriptures. Catholicism has caused doubt for those seeking the truth. God gave us the scriptures through the prophets and disciples. God, Christ, and the disciples, teach us that we must repent.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 09:25 AM
Contradictions In The Quran



So what. The Holy Bible has many contradictions. Don't eat meat. Eat meat. Only eat certain meat. You can make a point if you want, but a contradiction is not one of them.

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 02:05 PM
So what. The Holy Bible has many contradictions. Don't eat meat. Eat meat. Only eat certain meat. You can make a point if you want, but a contradiction is not one of them. There is no contradiction there. After the flood man was given permission to eat meat. The restricted foods were a matter of ceremonial regulations and safety.

egyptianmuslim
March 14th, 2016, 03:01 PM
The Quran is a book you only want to read once. After reading it you will think to yourself, wow, what a waste of time. And to think, there are people who actually believe in it, and live their life by it. Wow, what is wrong with those people?

Wow what wrong of those people who made only one son to God He must had billions of sons
......
Give me a contradiction one by one

KingdomRose
March 14th, 2016, 03:08 PM
-the church teaches free will
-the church teaches we must repent
-the church gave us the bible

Yeah, God uses a variety of sources to carry out His will, like He used pagan Cyrus to free the Jews from Babylon so they could go back to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 03:11 PM
There is no contradiction there. After the flood man was given permission to eat meat. The restricted foods were a matter of ceremonial regulations and safety.

Don't eat meat and then eat meat is a contradiction. Are you claiming there was not a change in rules?

KingdomRose
March 14th, 2016, 03:17 PM
So what. The Holy Bible has many contradictions. Don't eat meat. Eat meat. Only eat certain meat. You can make a point if you want, but a contradiction is not one of them.

We always have to consider the context when evaluating a passage. Jesus told his disciples to go only to the House of Israel. But his disciples later went to the Gentiles. A contradiction? No. We have to understand the context and be familiar with all of the Scriptures.

I see in the Quran serious discrepencies. It says that Allah told Moses what to write, so you would think that Muslims would honor the five books of Moses, at least. But they take issue with God's name! They do not accept the divine name of God that Moses wrote in his books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Strange.

Then they say that they accept Jesus as an important prophet. How could they if they reject his claim to be the Son of God, sent down from heaven by Jehovah? If he LIED about that, then why honor him as a prophet? They honor Mohammed more than Jesus. Strange.

Nick M
March 14th, 2016, 03:19 PM
We always have to consider the context when evaluating a passage. Jesus told his disciples to go only to the House of Israel. But his disciples later went to the Gentiles.

Got it. Now lets talk about the good news of our salvation.

KingdomRose
March 14th, 2016, 03:24 PM
Got it. Now lets talk about the good news of our salvation.

Yes, I agree! To spend time on the Quran is one big waste of time. I can't see how anyone can spend their life reading and memorizing that prohibitive darkness.

Jesus is the UNIQUE Son of God, through which the universe was created eons upon eons ago. He is above all other sons of God. He is not just one of billions. It is due to his suffering and love and loyalty, to the end of his human life, that we have the privilege of being able to live forever.

Crucible
March 14th, 2016, 04:15 PM
-the church teaches free will
-the church teaches we must repent
-the church gave us the bible

The RCC taught that everyone outside of it was going to Hell up until it couldn't sell repentance to society anymore.

The Bible took away the RCC- as soon as it was dished out to society and people saw how much more Babylonian your church was rather than Christian.

And
It's amusing how obsessively concerned people are about 'free will'- as if God predestining and God creating knowing destruction is supposed to make some damned moral difference.
It is stated of Judas, for example, that it 'would have been better if he were never born'. So why did God create him? See, your deity is inept- you deny God's Providence for your monolith of a divinized church.

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 04:41 PM
Contradictions In The Quran

#1. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contradictions/
#2. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contraditions/


The entire quran is a contradiction and jibberish

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 07:13 PM
Wow what wrong of those people who made only one son to God He must had billions of sons
......
Give me a contradiction one by one The term "Son of God" is a title, and not literal.

CherubRam
March 14th, 2016, 07:16 PM
Don't eat meat and then eat meat is a contradiction. Are you claiming there was not a change in rules?
Only for those who kept the festival (commands / regulations.

Crucible
March 14th, 2016, 07:58 PM
Wow what wrong of those people who made only one son to God He must had billions of sons
......
Give me a contradiction one by one

'Son of God' is understood as 'God the Son'. The title is misleading to those who do not fully understand the thrice unity which completes the image of God in His wholeness.

Flaminggg
March 14th, 2016, 08:17 PM
(I was asked once, if I ever used any androids or cybernetics, I simply refused to answer. Now, noone has ever officially asked me my take on the zombie phenomenon ... I told you everything I know, "Joseph the Blessing, Temple Stones, Sign of Antipas/Antiparticle", cuts of a spiritual relationship, that is why Genetic Dan is so filthy right now, because they abuse themselves in order to have the Holy Spirit put off the judgment in some limited capacity, now that becomes impossible in the presence of "Joseph the Blessing" ... so you will see mutilation of body, absent mindedness and gross assaults on the public by proportion)

Solomon Stalls Contradiction of 40 or 40,000 Stalls = 40 Days of Sign of Antipas/Antiparticle
LUKE 2:37 And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day.

Jehoiachin Reign of 8 or 18 Years = 150 Days of "Abaddon and Apollyon - Reign of Antichrist"
II CHRONICLES 11:20 And after her he took Maachah the daughter of Absalom; which bare him Abijah, and Attai, and Ziza, and Shelomith.
II CHRONICLES 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehq2a8lum_4

There are only two real contradictions of the bible, designed to echo the 195 Days of the "Events of Revelation". ... ... ... ... Obviously a Contradiction in the Quran may deal with the usage of wives, to denote separation from the Holy Spirit. For example: you now how the saying goes some islamic people make: "When I die, I will have all the young men meet my needs", there typically no mention of wives. I had just that one intelligent thing to say, but the material of the Quran is not religious at all, and should not be considered a religious publication. (Genetic Dan's variation from delirious behavior, to self mutilation to assault on the public are involuntary, and it will vary in the "Area of Effect" around the "Sign of Antipas/Antipartle/Temple Stones", quarantine the area, and begin the Blood Sacrifice of Repentance, solicit cooperation in society by these people by grandstanding the military and police there also, do want I've instructed, and build from there). Love and Blessings.

egyptianmuslim
March 14th, 2016, 10:00 PM
Contradictions In The Quran

#1. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contradictions/
#2. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contraditions/

Quran is different than Bible when it was early revealed the people wonders because it isn't like their talks but it is more nice than their songs.
Any one who would like to explain Quran shoud know 1- arabic 2- science of Quran 3- good knowkedge of all verses of Quran

Not all of Quran is clear but need the reader to think. It is different than Bible and why a muslim sees Bible as simple human talks

Quran composed of clear part and unclear part. The clear part is related mostly to the faith and rituals of Islam . Unclear part is related mostly to things that above our knowledge like hell, paradise...last days...


Quran 3:7
Translation
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

egyptianmuslim
March 14th, 2016, 10:04 PM
The term "Son of God" is a title, and not literal.

I think you have a different belief.

egyptianmuslim
March 14th, 2016, 10:23 PM
'Son of God' is understood as 'God the Son'. The title is misleading to those who do not fully understand the thrice unity which completes the image of God in His wholeness.

Why do you contaminate wholeness of God by making Him partly human.

God is more above our knowlege.

Crucible
March 15th, 2016, 03:43 PM
Why do you contaminate wholeness of God by making Him partly human.

God is more above our knowlege.

Why don't you think about the contradiction you just stated :chuckle:

Flaminggg
March 15th, 2016, 04:53 PM
... ... ... ... The Quran is designed to be illiterate, and ambiguous with any of the religious concepts it echos from the gospel/bible, but clear cut and concise about demoralization and dehumanization of the human experience, beginning with the prophets then to the jewish people, finally to all the people that have been snared by its own teachings. We can't call this a "Contradiction" at all more then it has become a developed shift in behavior for "Genetic Dan", which includes many other religions of their kind, so we need to view the history of the situation generally to become more correct:

("Mocking the Mosiac Law"-"Exemplifying Male Homosexuality"-"Ego Parading" ... not a contradiction, but a method of devaluing human life that has taken a more developed form in the present versus the archaic elements of Genetic Dan's behavior in the past)

... ... ... ... Going through history, Genetic Dan has always ran away from any form of religion, this is very clear in the gospel especially with observance of the Jewish people. However, after Jesus came in the flesh, Genetic Dan adopted Islam, this has been their shift in the way they have preferred to devalue themselves.

1st Contradiction if any at all: Jesus begins the New Testament, and completes the Gospel's Law/Bible
2nd Contradiction if any at all: Jesus replaces the Saints of God (Angels), with the Saints he attributed to himself for "Joseph the Blessing" (Fallen Angels)

(Holy Ghost has dominance in the Old Testament, so Genetic Dan doesn't adopt religion at all ... ... ... ... Holy Spirit has dominance in the New Testament, so Genetic Dan adopts its version of the Old Testament Law, as Jesus is preparing himself to destroy the Law of the Gospel, by completing its terms with the Antichrist/"Joseph the Blessings")
...............
...............
...............
Two Contradictions with the Bible, and two major shifts with the way Genetic Dan has been taking their own lives and we see this now globally as their races come to a close. This is just proof of purpose for the reality that God has not designed his gospel to the intent of having Jesus Christ pay for everyone's sin with "Joseph the Blessing". You will need to understand this for yourselves once we surpass the 12210th Day of the Antichrist's Lifespan. For now, the only intelligent way to view this as contradiction when referring to the Quran, at least from my perspective:

1. Terrorism that did not revolve around religion (before the New Testament)
2. Terrorism that revolves around religion (beginning with the New Testament)

"9/11" is a pattern in the Gospel, not the most significant like the Lifespan of the Antichrist, but I will say this one thing: Matthew 10:1-3 lists all 12 Apostles with the 9th Apostle listed as "James [the son] of Alphaeus", now with "BarJesus" as a reference to the Antichrist in Acts 13:6, we can say that "Abaddon and Apollyon" is referenced as "James [the son] of Alphaeus" ... ... ... ... 9/11/2001 the Falling Man, many believe had an association to the Antichrist, some how ended up being a declaration that Genetic Dan would reach a final level in degrading themselves by taking their own lives before they pass away.

Nihilo
March 15th, 2016, 06:00 PM
The RCC taught that everyone outside of it was going to Hell up untilNope, the Holy Catholic Church still teaches this.

Crucible
March 15th, 2016, 06:05 PM
Nope, the Holy Catholic Church still teaches this.

The RCC now teaches that even atheists can potentially be saved. It was implied by the Pope and outright declared by an archbishop during a public debate against atheist apologists.

The Catholic Church renders to the world when under pressure, and tries to bully other churches when it's afforded. Especially the Reformed.

It is astoundingly worldly in that it stands firm on it's own folly and then assumes 'infallibility'.

The epitome of narcissism.

Nihilo
March 15th, 2016, 06:07 PM
-the church teaches free willIndeed, and the Holy See also teaches how our free will, integrates together with our Maker's sovereignty: Divine providence.

And not only that, but I'm beginning to wonder whether the Magisterium aren't the only people who seriously and honestly teach free will at all, in all the world.

Nihilo
March 15th, 2016, 06:09 PM
Nope, the Holy Catholic Church still teaches this.

The RCC now teaches that even atheists can potentially be saved. It was implied by the Pope and outright declared by an archbishop during a public debate against atheist apologists.Nope, the Holy Catholic Church still teaches this.

egyptianmuslim
March 15th, 2016, 06:57 PM
Crucible,don't escape, you who talks about the wholeness of God
I didn't escape the contradiction and I asked the op to discuss it one by one step by step.....Are you ready to make comparison between Q and Bible about contradictions

1-the 6 days of creation:

- Bible, Like our days and nights Genesis 1:5

- Quran, day is a period of time that isn't equal.

Quran 70:4
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years

Quran 32:5
He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

Conclusion:Quran concludes that creation was done in six periods of unknown times, but Bible concludes that creation was done in six days.

.......

2- Bible says that God went to rest in the 7th day.Is God a human need rest?

But Quran says
Quran 50:38
And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 07:14 PM
'Son of God' is understood as 'God the Son'. The title is misleading to those who do not fully understand the thrice unity which completes the image of God in His wholeness.

You are really messing up the Christian message when you state such things that are ERRONEOUS and cannot be backed up by Scripture. "Son of God" does NOT mean "God the Son." They are two entirely different concepts, and "God the Son" is not in the Bible.

The Trinity is blasphemy, and Muslims are correct in their non-acceptance of that spurious doctrine.

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 07:19 PM
Why do you contaminate wholeness of God by making Him partly human.

God is more above our knowlege.

Anyone with a true knowledge of God would never say that He is partly human. The Holy Bible says that God is YHWH (Jehovah), and ONLY Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) Jesus called Jehovah his Father and his God. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

We can know about God, and become His friend. He gives us the Bible to facilitate that knowledge and friendship.

KingdomRose
March 15th, 2016, 07:24 PM
Indeed, and the Holy See also teaches how our free will, integrates together with our Maker's sovereignty: Divine providence.

And not only that, but I'm beginning to wonder whether the Magisterium aren't the only people who seriously and honestly teach free will at all, in all the world.

Will you please refrain from using "Holy" to describe your church. It kind of turns my stomach. And no, the "Magisterium" isn't seriously teaching free will to all the world. I'd bet that most Catholics don't even have an idea what free will might be, because they don't think about these things. I know, because I go to people's houses and I've spoken to MANY Catholics. Most don't even read the Bible.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach free will, and all the other things the Bible teaches.

Nihilo
March 15th, 2016, 07:27 PM
Anyone with a true knowledge of God would never say that He is partly human.Correct.

Crucible
March 15th, 2016, 07:27 PM
You are really messing up the Christian message when you state such things that are ERRONEOUS and cannot be backed up by Scripture. "Son of God" does NOT mean "God the Son." They are two entirely different concepts, and "God the Son" is not in the Bible.

The Trinity is blasphemy, and Muslims are correct in their non-acceptance of that spurious doctrine.

The Muslims turned their moon deity into the Abrahamic God upon a warlord turned 'prophet' convicted by the fact that Christianity had taken the known 1st World of the era.

There was no pruning of the vine and consistent reproach upon the Arabs in Yahweh- it just magically happened by Muhammad, who no doubt seized the literature of the Jews and Christians.

Because of this, he did not see the Trinity in it- just like you, who are in base rebellion against proper Christianity, and pin the Scriptures against truth and reason.

You're a special kind of moron to sit there and defend the Muslims on the Godhead, good luck with that :wave:

Nihilo
March 15th, 2016, 07:33 PM
Will you please refrain from using "Holy" to describe your church.I'll consider it. And, it's not mine; it's ours, iffen you also believe in our Lord Jesus Christ.

And no, the "Magisterium" isn't seriously teaching free will to all the world.Yes they are.

I'd bet that most Catholics don't even have an idea what free will might be, because they don't think about these things. I know, because I go to people's houses and I've spoken to MANY Catholics.Any of them bishops? If not, this is not relevant.

Most don't even read the Bible.And?

Jehovah's Witnesses teach free will, and all the other things the Bible teaches.Except that our Lord built His Church upon Peter. You leave that part out.

egyptianmuslim
March 15th, 2016, 09:41 PM
Cherub, please show your contradictions one by one, step by step

egyptianmuslim
March 15th, 2016, 09:50 PM
Anyone with a true knowledge of God would never say that He is partly human. The Holy Bible says that God is YHWH (Jehovah), and ONLY Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) Jesus called Jehovah his Father and his God. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

We can know about God, and become His friend. He gives us the Bible to facilitate that knowledge and friendship.

Of course.
Thank.

CherubRam
March 16th, 2016, 01:05 AM
Cherub, please show your contradictions one by one, step by step Sorry, but I do not have time for that.

Nihilo
March 16th, 2016, 01:46 AM
Cherub, please show your contradictions one by one, step by step

Sorry, but I do not have time for that.You mean, You do not have time for that right now, but you certainly will find the time, since you titled your thread Contradictions in the Quran, and now a Muslim is asking you---politely---to produce, said contradictions, in the Muslim Holy Book. Right? I mean, it's only polite.

CherubRam
March 16th, 2016, 06:44 AM
Cherub, please show your contradictions one by one, step by step




You mean, You do not have time for that right now, but you certainly will find the time, since you titled your thread Contradictions in the Quran, and now a Muslim is asking you---politely---to produce, said contradictions, in the Muslim Holy Book. Right? I mean, it's only polite.

He wants me to spoon feed him step by step. He can see them here like everyone else. Contradictions In The Quran

#1. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contradictions/
#2. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contraditions/

KingdomRose
March 16th, 2016, 08:46 AM
The Muslims turned their moon deity into the Abrahamic God upon a warlord turned 'prophet' convicted by the fact that Christianity had taken the known 1st World of the era.

There was no pruning of the vine and consistent reproach upon the Arabs in Yahweh- it just magically happened by Muhammad, who no doubt seized the literature of the Jews and Christians.

Because of this, he did not see the Trinity in it- just like you, who are in base rebellion against proper Christianity, and pin the Scriptures against truth and reason.

You're a special kind of moron to sit there and defend the Muslims on the Godhead, good luck with that :wave:

Say what you will, the "Godhead" is spurious. It's not even an accurate word to use by any translator. It suggests a three-headed deity, just like the pagans have worshiped for millennia. Modern versions now see that it's erroneous and use a more correct word, like "deity" or "godship."

For you to say I am "defending" Muslims is kind of misleading. I think the only thing I agree with them on is their view of one God and not three. They are correct on that.

"Proper Christianity" does not teach three Gods in one God. That is ridiculous and senseless.

egyptianmuslim
March 16th, 2016, 10:18 AM
Cherub, please show your contradictions one by one, step by step




You mean, You do not have time for that right now, but you certainly will find the time, since you titled your thread Contradictions in the Quran, and now a Muslim is asking you---politely---to produce, said contradictions, in the Muslim Holy Book. Right? I mean, it's only polite.


He wants me to spoon feed him step by step. He can see them here like everyone else. Contradictions In The Quran

#1. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contradictions/
#2. http://questioning-islam.com/category/contraditions/
Are you ready to make comparison between Q and Bible about contradictions

1-the 6 days of creation:-
- Bible, Like our days and nights Genesis 1:5

- Quran, day is a period of time that isn't equal.

Quran 70:4The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years

Quran 32:5He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

Conclusion:Quran concludes that creation was done in six periods of unknown times, but Bible concludes that creation was done in six days........

2- Bible says that God went to rest in the 7th day.
Is God a human need rest?
But Quran says.
Quran 50:38And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.

egyptianmuslim
March 16th, 2016, 10:29 AM
Cherub, I'm ready to make the comparison to show the contradictions in both Bible and Quran
Is the day of creation 24 or 12 hrs?
Did God need to go to rest?
Now your turn to answer my above post, and giving your ???

Crucible
March 16th, 2016, 06:10 PM
Say what you will, the "Godhead" is spurious. It's not even an accurate word to use by any translator. It suggests a three-headed deity, just like the pagans have worshiped for millennia. Modern versions now see that it's erroneous and use a more correct word, like "deity" or "godship."

For you to say I am "defending" Muslims is kind of misleading. I think the only thing I agree with them on is their view of one God and not three. They are correct on that.

"Proper Christianity" does not teach three Gods in one God. That is ridiculous and senseless.

The Trinity is fully logical and harmonious, you just don't want to accept it and the reason Jews and Muslims do not is because they simply DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS DEITY.

You are incorrect in that you believe God made a being to lord over and be worshiped- that is what is 'ridiculous and senseless'.
And metaphysically speaking, it's impossible for God to 'have a son' commensurate t His own holiness and yet not be counted as God- that is why NO SUCH BEING EXISTS outside of the concept of the Trinity.

You're going around calling something 'blasphemy' simply because you have a vain bone against conforming to fundamental Christian dogma, and it's nothing but being pointlessly contrarian.

Even the Messianic Jews in Israel hold to the Trinity. You know the type who doesn't hold to the Trinity? People who think a gold book fell out the sky and who 'speak in tongues' more than actually hold a church service.
And yet I'm the one with something dubious in my belief :rolleyes:

CherubRam
March 16th, 2016, 08:56 PM
Are you ready to make comparison between Q and Bible about contradictions

1-the 6 days of creation:-
- Bible, Like our days and nights Genesis 1:5

- Quran, day is a period of time that isn't equal.

Quran 70:4The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years

Quran 32:5He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

Conclusion:Quran concludes that creation was done in six periods of unknown times, but Bible concludes that creation was done in six days........

2- Bible says that God went to rest in the 7th day.
Is God a human need rest?
But Quran says.
Quran 50:38And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness. God can rest even if He does not get tired. A creation day is an epoch of time. A literal full day is 24 hrs.

egyptianmuslim
March 16th, 2016, 09:46 PM
God can rest even if He does not get tired. A creation day is an epoch of time. A literal full day is 24 hrs.
God is The Power of cosmos , how does He go to rest.. can the electricity rest?
Where does the Bible say "it is an epoch of time"?
.............
Wait

God can rest even if He does not get tired. A creation day is an epoch of time. A literal full day is 24 hrs.

CherubRam
March 17th, 2016, 05:52 AM
God is The Power of cosmos , how does He go to rest.. can the electricity rest?
Where does the Bible say "it is an epoch of time"?
.............
Wait
Psalm 90:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+90:4&version=NIV)
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Hosea 6:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+6:2&version=NIV)
After two days he will revive us; upon the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
2 Peter 3:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter+3:8&version=NIV)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Hosea 6:2
After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

The resurrection of the elect is after two thousand years, and the third day is the end of the thousand years, and it is the resurrection of the sheep and goats.


Matthew 24
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets (Like Mohammad) will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Revelation 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

CherubRam
March 17th, 2016, 06:07 AM
Epoch of time.

God said:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

After Adam ate the fruit, he continued to live for nearly a thousand years, until he finally died.

Crucible
March 17th, 2016, 06:56 PM
A 'day' in the Bible, when spoken of literally, is twelve hours.

Also, 'day' is actually used more in a non-literal, contextual sense than otherwise. "In the day of..", for example, clearly expresses an 'age' or 'period'.

Therefore, Creation can be interpreted as not meaning a literal 12 hours between each event. In fact, there's little to actually show that any of it should be taken literally- when it comes down to it, it's a beatified ode.

egyptianmuslim
March 18th, 2016, 02:09 PM
,Days of creation in Bible is related to the earth"evening and morning" ie the process of creation as a whole was done on the earth .

egyptianmuslim
March 18th, 2016, 02:25 PM
Contradiction about days of creation in Quran:
The early people believed that the world/cosmos is like a room , the earth is its ground and the heaven is the roof and there are pillars at corners of the earth 1 Samuel 2:8. Revelation 7:1

But Quran 41:11-12 shows that God included the earth as part of the heavens
............
Some ones said that there is contradiction in Quran 41:9-12 in which the heavens was created in 2 days after the 6 days of creation of the earth ie the creation was done in 8 days, see 1st post
My answer is: as Q 41:11-12 says that the earth is part of the heavens then any arrange in the heaven will include the earth ie the 8 days of creation is overlaping days.

egyptianmuslim
March 18th, 2016, 02:30 PM
Deleted,.......new TOL is not working good with my browser

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:29 PM
I'll consider it. And, it's not mine; it's ours, iffen you also believe in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes they are.
Any of them bishops? If not, this is not relevant.
And?
Except that our Lord built His Church upon Peter. You leave that part out.

Some people here have given historical facts to show that the Church could not be built on Peter. But you eschew facts.

I thought of you today when I read an article about the Church and La Santa Muerte. You might be interested to read about this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-santa-muerte-2016-3

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:38 PM
The Trinity is fully logical and harmonious, you just don't want to accept it and the reason Jews and Muslims do not is because they simply DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS DEITY.



And they are correct in that assessment! He is not equal with the one true God, and there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that....except a handful of badly translated verses that can be shown to be in opposition to the original language rendition.

Where Muslims go astray is that they place Mohammed above Jesus in importance, and the Jews go astray when they deny that the Messiah has come.

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:43 PM
The Trinity is fully logical and harmonious, you just don't want to accept it and the reason Jews and Muslims do not is because they simply DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS DEITY.

You are incorrect in that you believe God made a being to lord over and be worshiped- that is what is 'ridiculous and senseless'.
And metaphysically speaking, it's impossible for God to 'have a son' commensurate t His own holiness and yet not be counted as God- that is why NO SUCH BEING EXISTS outside of the concept of the Trinity.



Where does the Bible say that God's Son must be "commensurate with His own holiness"? Nowhere! There is no being anywhere that equals Almighty God YHWH, and He makes that clear in the Scriptures. There is one God, and He is YHWH---Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) See in the original Hebrew texts how often "YHWH" appears (7,000 times). Jesus calls Jehovah "the only true God." (John 17:3)

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 08:44 PM
And they are correct in that assessment! He is not equal with the one true God

Then what is he?

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:45 PM
,Days of creation in Bible is related to the earth"evening and morning" ie the process of creation as a whole was done on the earth .

Still, not evening and morning as we know of with 24-hour days. It was all an unspecified period of time.

KingdomRose
March 18th, 2016, 08:48 PM
Then what is he?

He is the Son of God, the SECOND most powerful being in the universe. He is at Jehovah's right hand. He has been APPOINTED by God to rule over the earth in due time.

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 09:03 PM
He is the Son of God, the SECOND most powerful being in the universe.

Wrong answer.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:18 PM
Wrong answer.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'" Here is the correct translation: Luke 4:8
Yahshua answered, "It is written: 'Worship Yahwah your God and serve Him only.'"

Yahwah is our Holy Father, The Holy Spirit.

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 09:20 PM
Here is the correct translation: Luke 4:8
Yahshua answered, "It is written: 'Worship Yahwah your God and serve Him only.'"

Yahwah is our Holy Father, The Holy Spirit.

What does that have to do with anything? It is taught to worship and serve God alone, and you all have trivialized the entire matter, worshiping a 'second in command'.

You all need to just drop that blatant heresy. Go be Muslim if you don't believe Jesus is God.

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:27 PM
What does that have to do with anything? It is taught to worship and serve God alone, and you all have trivialized the entire matter, worshiping a 'second in command'.

You all need to just drop that blatant heresy. Go be Muslim if you don't believe Jesus is God.
Yahshua is (A god.) Trinitarianism is supported by corrupted scriptures from the Catholics.

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 09:31 PM
Yahshua is (A god.) Trinitarianism is supported by corrupted scriptures from the Catholics.

The Trinity is 'a god', and He commands that nobody, except Him, be worshiped.
So why do you worship Jesus :doh:

Just because those like yourself refuse to accept the validity of the Trinity, and would rather be seen as someone with little rational depth, doesn't make any difference of it.
You all are in league with the swarm of historical American heresy of the 1800's, Muslims, and Jews- the only thing 'corrupted' is yourselves :rolleyes:

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:33 PM
All WHO HAVE or WILL HAVE life immortal are called gods. There is only one creator who is the true God, That is Yahwah. His name means "Life Began."

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 09:35 PM
All WHO HAVE or WILL HAVE life immortal are called gods. There is only one creator who is the true God, That is Yahwah. His name means "Life Began."

So, 'fake gods'. Gotcha.

This is why I don't argue with Trinity deniers.

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:36 PM
The Trinity is 'a god', and He commands that nobody, except Him, be worshiped.
So why do you worship Jesus :doh:

Just because those like yourself refuse to accept the validity of the Trinity, and would rather be seen as someone with little rational depth, doesn't make any difference of it.
You all are in league with the swarm of historical American heresy of the 1800's, Muslims, and Jews- the only thing 'corrupted' is yourselves :rolleyes: Non-Trinitarians do not worship Yahshua the Messiah.

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:39 PM
So, 'fake gods'. Gotcha.

This is why I don't argue with Trinity deniers. The word "god" is a title, it is not the name of anyone. There are many gods, real, or imagined; but there is only one person whom is truly a God, His personal name is Yahwah.

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 09:42 PM
Non-Trinitarians do not worship Yahshua the Messiah.

No, you all don't worship God at all, you worship the 'second in command' :wave:

CherubRam
March 18th, 2016, 09:44 PM
No, you all don't worship God at all, you worship the 'second in command' :wave: You are mentally ill.

egyptianmuslim
March 18th, 2016, 09:58 PM
KingdomeRose, Muhammed isnt above Jesus, both are muslims and messengers of God.

Crucible
March 18th, 2016, 10:05 PM
KingdomeRose, Muhammed isnt above Jesus, both are muslims and messengers of God.

There you go CherubRam, listen to the non-Christians.

6days
March 18th, 2016, 10:18 PM
Yahshua is (A god.) Trinitarianism is supported by corrupted scriptures from the Catholics.If you think scripture has been corrupted, what is your basis? Do you have uncorrupted scripture? I think is evidence is strong / compelling that all major translations are reasonably accurate...and that God has been faithful in preserving His Word.

6days
March 18th, 2016, 10:21 PM
KingdomeRose, Muhammed isnt above Jesus, both are muslims and messengers of God.
But Jesus said that He is the only way.
The Qu'ran tells you that the Injil was handed down from Allah, who preserves his word.
So,,,,Muslims must believe that Jesus shed His blood for you and me. Jesus is the Mediator.... between sinful man and a Holy God.

CherubRam
March 19th, 2016, 02:42 AM
There you go CherubRam, listen to the non-Christians.
"Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning: "One who submits" (to the faith.) From root of aslama "he resigned." Related to Islam.

The Arabic word "Islam" simply means "submit", and is derived from the word meaning "peace."

In a religious context it simply means submit to the will of Allah. And so Islam means “submit” not “peace". It is frequently said that the word Islam means “peace.” It does not. Islam is the Arabic word for "submit." The Arabic word for “peace” is transliterated as salam or salaam.

In Arabic, as in English, these are distinctly different words.

It is unfortunate that people are unable to get it through their head that, Allah was never the God of Abraham. Allah is the short form of the name Alilah, a Pagan god.

Mohammad did not know the personal name of God, so he used the name of a Pagan god. Alilah = Al/il/ah.

Alilah means: "The god ascends." A name for "the rising sun." The Arabs did not know the name of God at that time, because the God of Abraham was cursed by the Arabs, and the name of God was not to ever be spoken. The Arabs cursed the God of Abraham, because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arabs.

CherubRam
March 19th, 2016, 02:49 AM
If you think scripture has been corrupted, what is your basis? Do you have uncorrupted scripture? I think is evidence is strong / compelling that all major translations are reasonably accurate...and that God has been faithful in preserving His Word. At times it is mistranslated, other times it has been replaced by Catholic forgeries. A good study bible will often reveal that fact.

egyptianmuslim
March 19th, 2016, 03:53 AM
Cherub, Arab pagans worshiped many gods like Allat,Ozza, and Manat as mediators to The Creator , they know that their gods created nothing but Allah who is The creator.

CherubRam
March 19th, 2016, 06:34 AM
Cherub, Arab pagans worshiped many gods like Allat,Ozza, and Manat as mediators to The Creator , they know that their gods created nothing but Allah who is The creator.

"Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning: "One who submits" (to the faith.) From root of aslama "he resigned." Related to Islam.

The Arabic word "Islam" simply means "submit", and is derived from the word meaning "peace."

In a religious context it simply means submit to the will of Allah. And so Islam means “submit” not “peace". It is frequently said that the word Islam means “peace.” It does not. Islam is the Arabic word for "submit." The Arabic word for “peace” is transliterated as salam or salaam.

In Arabic, as in English, these are distinctly different words.

It is unfortunate that people are unable to get it through their head that, Allah was never the God of Abraham. Allah is the short form of the name Alilah, a Pagan god.

Mohammad did not know the personal name of God, so he used the name of a Pagan god. Alilah = Al/il/ah.

Alilah means: "The god ascends." A name for "the rising sun." The Arabs did not know the name of God at that time, because the God of Abraham was cursed by the Arabs, and the name of God was not to ever be spoken. The Arabs cursed the God of Abraham, because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arabs.

6days
March 19th, 2016, 02:15 PM
At times it is mistranslated, other times it has been replaced by Catholic forgeries. A good study bible will often reveal that fact.
Cherub..... you keep stating this but offer no evidence.
What has been mis-translated?
Evidence contradicts you. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts proving our modern translations are accurate. When there is any dispute at all about the ancient manuscripts, good study Bibles provide a footnote with explanations, saying that no doctrine should be built upon the verse or passage in question.

So again, I ask you..... what has been mis-translated?

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 06:13 PM
Cherub, Arab pagans worshiped many gods like Allat,Ozza, and Manat as mediators to The Creator , they know that their gods created nothing but Allah who is The creator.

Sura 53...?

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 06:15 PM
The Trinity is blasphemy, and Muslims are correct in their non-acceptance of that spurious doctrine.

The Trinity is confirmed as Truth in the Koran.

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 06:32 PM
Are you ready to make comparison between Q and Bible about contradictions

1-the 6 days of creation:-
- Bible, Like our days and nights Genesis 1:5

- Quran, day is a period of time that isn't equal.

Quran 70:4The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years

Quran 32:5He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

Conclusion:Quran concludes that creation was done in six periods of unknown times, but Bible concludes that creation was done in six days........

2- Bible says that God went to rest in the 7th day.
Is God a human need rest?
But Quran says.
Quran 50:38And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.


Nonsense, muslim.

You don't know enough about your very own Koran to be spreading this cliché propaganda.

Sit down before you hurt yourself.



Observe...

الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون

Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi ma lakum min doonihi min waliyyin wala shafeeAAin afala tatathakkaroona yudabbiru al-amra mina alssama-i ila al-ardi thumma yaAAruju ilayhi fee yawmin kana miqdaruhu alfa sanatin mimma taAAuddoona

'allah' whom he created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them in six days, then he sat on the throne, none from a mediator and nor intercessors for you from other than him, so do you receive admonition? He manages the affairs continuously; the matter from the clouds to the earth, then ascends to him in a day was his measurement one thousand years from what you count. (32.4 – 5)


So...

Before you cast your stones, be aware that your god 'allah' must have been really, really tired after creating, because he had to sit down and rest on his throne!

But wait...

'allah' created in six days - each day a thousand years - thus, this makes the world out to be 6,000 years old!

I sure hope that you are a young earth creationist....as most muslims are NOT!

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 07:56 PM
What does that have to do with anything? It is taught to worship and serve God alone, and you all have trivialized the entire matter, worshiping a 'second in command'.

You all need to just drop that blatant heresy. Go be Muslim if you don't believe Jesus is God.

You are disputing yourself. YOU worship the second-in-command, Jesus. True Christians worship his Father, Jehovah, whom Jesus called "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 08:01 PM
The Trinity is 'a god', and He commands that nobody, except Him, be worshiped.
So why do you worship Jesus :doh:

Just because those like yourself refuse to accept the validity of the Trinity, and would rather be seen as someone with little rational depth, doesn't make any difference of it.
You all are in league with the swarm of historical American heresy of the 1800's, Muslims, and Jews- the only thing 'corrupted' is yourselves :rolleyes:

Oh come on. It has been explained that "worship" is a word that has a couple different levels in the Scriptures. "Worship" to a human in high position or to an angel is not the kind of worship that one would give to Almighty God. The kind of "worship" we give to important humans or angels is actually an act of respect, not the exclusive worship that we would give to the one and only true God.

Jesus called the Father, Jehovah, "the only true God." (John 17:3) He also called Him "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

Why do you insist on ignoring what Jesus himself has said? It's baffling to me.


:confused:

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 08:09 PM
KingdomeRose, Muhammed isnt above Jesus, both are muslims and messengers of God.

But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is an important prophet, but Mohammed is more important because he came after Jesus? And I don't understand why Jesus is even considered an important prophet to you if you think he was lying. Wouldn't that make him anathema to any God-fearing person? He said that he was the ONLY mediator between God and men, and that no one can get to God except through HIM. (John 14:6; ITimothy 2:5) But you don't agree, am I right?

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 08:23 PM
Oh come on. It has been explained that "worship" is a word that has a couple different levels in the Scriptures. "Worship" to a human in high position or to an angel is not the kind of worship that one would give to Almighty God. The kind of "worship" we give to important humans or angels is actually an act of respect, not the exclusive worship that we would give to the one and only true God.

Jesus called the Father, Jehovah, "the only true God." (John 17:3) He also called Him "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

Why do you insist on ignoring what Jesus himself has said? It's baffling to me.


:confused:



Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:


Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…


Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 08:25 PM
If you think scripture has been corrupted, what is your basis? Do you have uncorrupted scripture? I think is evidence is strong / compelling that all major translations are reasonably accurate...and that God has been faithful in preserving His Word.

There are many corrupted scriptures, one of which is the words added after "three witness bearers" in IJohn 5:7. More recent manuscripts (MSS) add "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one." Those words are left out of earlier MSS. They are obviously added much later than the original letter and early MSS.

Another is ITimothy 3:16 where someone wrote "God" into the verse. Eg., the KJV renders it this way: "And, without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh..."

A majority of more modern versions have corrected this corruption, going back to earlier MSS. The NASB, for example, translates the verse this way: "By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: HE WHO was revealed in the flesh..."

There are dozens of other versions that say the same thing. "God" was added some time AFTER the original letter was written. These are only two examples of many.

God HAS preserved His Word, and that preservation is most clearly seen in the New World Translation. Check out the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, a scholar that is affiliated with no particular church. He examines several translations.

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 08:25 PM
[But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is an important prophet, but Mohammed is more important because he came after Jesus?

Nope.



And I don't understand why Jesus is even considered an important prophet to you if you think he was lying. Wouldn't that make him anathema to any God-fearing person? He said that he was the ONLY mediator between God and men, and that no one can get to God except through HIM. (John 14:6; ITimothy 2:5) But you don't agree, am I right?

Jesus is declared to be God in the Koran....just as He is in the Holy Bible.

KingdomRose
March 19th, 2016, 08:28 PM
The Trinity is confirmed as Truth in the Koran.

Where?

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 08:28 PM
God HAS preserved His Word, and that preservation is most clearly seen in the New World Translation.

The NWT declares Jesus to be God.

Can we get an amen...?

Apple7
March 19th, 2016, 08:30 PM
Where?


One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not “three”, but instead, it is “one”, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit…


يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at ‘The Book’s family’ (ahla alkitabi) – which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say “Three” - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…and what it is, by the example of “one”.

6days
March 19th, 2016, 09:14 PM
.There are many corrupted scriptures, one of which is the words added after "three witness bearers" in IJohn 5:7. More recent manuscripts (MSS) add "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one." Those words are left out of earlier MSS. They are obviously added much later than the original letter and early MSS.

You may be correct about that verse. My Bible reads "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.". I think you will find that other study Bibles which read "three witnesses" mention it is controversial in the footnotes and also say that doctrine should not be based on this verse.

.
God HAS preserved His Word, and that preservation is most clearly seen in the New World Translation. Check out the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, a scholar that is affiliated with no particular church. He examines several translations. I have checked him out before, and found him particularily biased although he claims he isn't.

Now..... Kingdom, I think all Christians would acknowledge we have translations, and that no translation is perfect. However, we can compare various translations against each other to help determine accuracy. We also can check the credentials of the various translation teams.

So... Would you agree that the NWT is an imperfect translation? (I would suggest its corrupted by church doctrine).
And... who are the translators?

Kingdom Rose..... Rather than being married to a religion, why not trust and receive the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Savior, and become His Bride...so that you can have eternal life and go to heaven?

egyptianmuslim
March 19th, 2016, 09:54 PM
But Jesus said that He is the only way.
The Qu'ran tells you that the Injil was handed down from Allah, who preserves his word.
So,,,,Muslims must believe that Jesus shed His blood for you and me. Jesus is the Mediator.... between sinful man and a Holy God.
There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 11:12 AM
There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief


It never ceases to amaze me at how completely and utterly ignorant you followers of islam are with regards to your Koran.

The very word 'injil' is an Arabicized word from the Greek word 'Gospel'.

As such, it MUST impart the same original meaning as 'Gospel'...of which, means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ!'

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 11:33 AM
Nonsense, muslim.

You don't know enough about your very own Koran to be spreading this cliché propaganda.

Sit down before you hurt yourself.



Observe...

الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون

Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi ma lakum min doonihi min waliyyin wala shafeeAAin afala tatathakkaroona yudabbiru al-amra mina alssama-i ila al-ardi thumma yaAAruju ilayhi fee yawmin kana miqdaruhu alfa sanatin mimma taAAuddoona

'allah' whom he created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them in six days, then he sat on the throne, none from a mediator and nor intercessors for you from other than him, so do you receive admonition? He manages the affairs continuously; the matter from the clouds to the earth, then ascends to him in a day was his measurement one thousand years from what you count. (32.4 – 5)


So...

Before you cast your stones, be aware that your god 'allah' must have been really, really tired after creating, because he had to sit down and rest on his throne!

But wait...

'allah' created in six days - each day a thousand years - thus, this makes the world out to be 6,000 years old!

I sure hope that you are a young earth creationist....as most muslims are NOT!

Quran doesn't say that the extend of the day of creation is 1000 yrs but the day of the heaven is indefined.....read:
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.
[Quran 70 : 4 ]
.......

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 11:45 AM
Apple, about going of God to rest in the 7th day.....read:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......

The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 01:49 PM
Quran doesn't say that the extend of the day of creation is 1000 yrs but the day of the heaven is indefined.....read:
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.
[Quran 70 : 4 ]
.......


I showed you the context of 32.4 - 5, and it most assuredly states that each of the six days is 1,000 years in length.

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 02:33 PM
Apple, about going of God to rest in the 7th day.....read:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......

If your god 'allah' has to sit down after creating, then he must be tired.

Either that, or your Koran contradicts itself...





The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5

That just shows that the earth is rotating upon its axis....and the accuracy of the Biblical narrative.

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 02:40 PM
Any one who would like to explain Quran shoud know 1- arabic 2- science of Quran 3- good knowkedge of all verses of Quran


Then you have just eliminated yourself, and 99% of all muslims.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 02:54 PM
Then you have just eliminated yourself, and 99% of all muslims.
[emoji15]

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 03:15 PM
If your god 'allah' has to sit down after creating, then he must be tired.

Either that, or your Koran contradicts itself...






That just shows that the earth is rotating upon its axis....and the accuracy of the Biblical narrative.
Many time you prove that you don't know Quran or Islam.... it is more better to ask, does God has a skeleton and joints to sit or to stand?

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 03:31 PM
Many time you prove that you don't know Quran or Islam.... it is more better to ask, does God has a skeleton and joints to sit or to stand?


Obey your Koran...


فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 03:40 PM
But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is an important prophet, but Mohammed is more important because he came after Jesus? And I don't understand why Jesus is even considered an important prophet to you if you think he was lying. Wouldn't that make him anathema to any God-fearing person? He said that he was the ONLY mediator between God and men, and that no one can get to God except through HIM. (John 14:6; ITimothy 2:5) But you don't agree, am I right?
Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus . But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

Cherub..... you keep stating this but offer no evidence.
What has been mis-translated?
Evidence contradicts you. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts proving our modern translations are accurate. When there is any dispute at all about the ancient manuscripts, good study Bibles provide a footnote with explanations, saying that no doctrine should be built upon the verse or passage in question.

So again, I ask you..... what has been mis-translated?



"Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning: "One who submits" (to the faith.) From root of aslama "he resigned." Related to Islam.

The Arabic word "Islam" simply means "submit", and is derived from the word meaning "peace."

In a religious context it simply means submit to the will of Allah. And so Islam means “submit” not “peace". It is frequently said that the word Islam means “peace.” It does not. Islam is the Arabic word for "submit." The Arabic word for “peace” is transliterated as salam or salaam.

In Arabic, as in English, these are distinctly different words.

It is unfortunate that people are unable to get it through their head that, Allah was never the God of Abraham. Allah is the short form of the name Alilah, a Pagan god.

Mohammad did not know the personal name of God, so he used the name of a Pagan god. Alilah = Al/il/ah.

Alilah means: "The god ascends." A name for "the rising sun." The Arabs did not know the name of God at that time, because the God of Abraham was cursed by the Arabs, and the name of God was not to ever be spoken. The Arabs cursed the God of Abraham, because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arabs.

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 03:46 PM
Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus .

Correct.

The Koran says that Muhammad IS Jesus!





But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

The Koran states just the opposite.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 04:12 PM
It never ceases to amaze me at how completely and utterly ignorant you followers of islam are with regards to your Koran.

The very word 'injil' is an Arabicized word from the Greek word 'Gospel'.

As such, it MUST impart the same original meaning as 'Gospel'...of which, means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ!'
It mean good news. God sent Jesus to guide jews and to reform Moses laws to be more easier ie permision of many fobidden things.

And confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.
[Quran 3 : 50 ]

Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:


Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed [I]after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…


Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 08:41 PM
Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:


Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…


Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

You jumped from one subject to another. I cited Revelation 3:12 to show that Jesus called Jehovah "MY GOD". You left that subject and went to another argument trying to say that I interpret Revelation 3:14 in an unacceptable manner.

Why did Jesus call Jehovah "my God" if Jesus is God?

What "epithets" are you referring to in your discussion of Rev.3:14?

Nothing "confirms the Trinity." In all of the verses you mention, none of them states what the RELATIONSHIP of the Holy Spirit is to the Father. It never says it is equal to Him. No verse states that the Father, Son and H.S. are equal.

Jesus is NOT God. Yes, all things were created THROUGH him. But the Source of all power and authority is the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah created THROUGH Jesus. (I Corinthians 8:5,6)

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 08:45 PM
Re. post #91, Apple7.....

Your post is rambling and confusing. I don't see the Trinity in what you quoted from the Quran.

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:09 PM
You may be correct about that verse. My Bible reads "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.". I think you will find that other study Bibles which read "three witnesses" mention it is controversial in the footnotes and also say that doctrine should not be based on this verse.
I have checked him out before, and found him particularily biased although he claims he isn't.

Now..... Kingdom, I think all Christians would acknowledge we have translations, and that no translation is perfect. However, we can compare various translations against each other to help determine accuracy. We also can check the credentials of the various translation teams.

So... Would you agree that the NWT is an imperfect translation? (I would suggest its corrupted by church doctrine).
And... who are the translators?

Kingdom Rose..... Rather than being married to a religion, why not trust and receive the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Savior, and become His Bride...so that you can have eternal life and go to heaven?

So BeDuhn is biased....because you don't agree with him. On the other hand, I find his arguments compelling.

I would not agree that the NWT is corrupted by church doctrine. You may have a point concerning the New Testament because Jehovah's name is placed whereever "God" is written, but other than that, I don't think it is corrupt at all.

The translators based their work on the conclusions of Westcott and Hort. I do not know the names of the people on the committee.

The "official Catholic Bible," the New American Bible, is also the product of a single Christian denomination...just as the NWT. Do you know the names of the NAB translation committee? Why is it that no one questions that version?

Probably because of this: "Because of its association with the Jehovah's Witnesses, the NWT is often readily pointed to as an example of a translation which must have a theological bias, unlike the supposedly objective, neutral, and scholarly Bible more widely used today. The attention to bias is heightened by the fact that the theology of the Jehovah's Witnesses does not correspond to that of the mainstream denominations. This difference creates a hostile atmosphere in which representatives of that mainstream theology charge that any variation in the NWT from more familiar translations must serve the ulterior motives of distorting the 'truth.' But the facts are that all of the translations considered in this book [around 10] are products of people with theological commitments, that all contain biased translations of one sort or another, and that the NWT deserves to be assessed for accuracy by the same standards applied to the others." (Truth in Translation, Jason BeDuhn, pp.38,39)

I have received Jesus Christ as my Savior and Friend, and as my King. I have no interest in going to heaven. The 144,000 that are going to heaven will rule with Jesus, and I would rather be guided and instructed BY them, right here on Earth. This is where I want to be.

Thank you for taking the time to actually read my post and think about it.

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 09:12 PM
You jumped from one subject to another. I cited Revelation 3:12 to show that Jesus called Jehovah "MY GOD". You left that subject and went to another argument trying to say that I interpret Revelation 3:14 in an unacceptable manner.

Why did Jesus call Jehovah "my God" if Jesus is God?

What "epithets" are you referring to in your discussion of Rev.3:14?


On the contrary, we can see that adding context utterly destroys your cherry-picked verse.






Nothing "confirms the Trinity." In all of the verses you mention, none of them states what the RELATIONSHIP of the Holy Spirit is to the Father. It never says it is equal to Him. No verse states that the Father, Son and H.S. are equal.

Even in Koranic Arabic, The Biblical Trinity holds true.

But....you don't know Arabic....just like you don't know Biblical Greek.

We already proved this point over and over with you...






Jesus is NOT God. Yes, all things were created THROUGH him. But the Source of all power and authority is the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah created THROUGH Jesus. (I Corinthians 8:5,6)

Jesus is Yahweh.

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:12 PM
There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief

But is Mohammed not a "mediator" between Allah and men?

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 09:14 PM
Re. post #91, Apple7.....

Your post is rambling and confusing. I don't see the Trinity in what you quoted from the Quran.

Witness to us.

Show us that you even remotely understand Koranic Arabic.

Don't keep getting destroyed at the door step...

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:14 PM
Apple, about going of God to rest in the 7th day.....read:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......

The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5

Hey, 50,000 years is even closer to the truth!! Each "day" could've been millions of years!

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:17 PM
Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus . But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

Wait....wouldn't you say that the Quran is also a mixture of God's words and human words?

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 09:19 PM
http://ehrmanblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bartehrman_100x100.jpg

 Bart Ehrman January 7, 2013
I don’t have an informed view of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, although it’s true that Arians believed that Jesus was God but not that he was equal with God the Father or co-eternal with him. John 1:1 — I think the proper translation is “The Word was God.” (In this Gospel Jesus appears to be equal with God — here I disagree with the Arian view — but he is not *identical* with God, a major point I think.)
http://ehrmanblog.org/my-next-book/

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:23 PM
On the contrary, we can see that adding context utterly destroys your cherry-picked verse.







Even in Koranic Arabic, The Biblical Trinity holds true.

But....you don't know Arabic....just like you don't know Biblical Greek.

We already proved this point over and over with you...







Jesus is Yahweh.

You say that Jesus is Jehovah just to get me going. No one who knows anything about the Bible would say that.

And my "cherry-picked" verse is not destroyed by your adding anything. It is very clear what it means. Jesus says that God is "MY GOD" several times in Rev.3:12. So he couldn't be God. God doesn't have anyone over him.

:p

KingdomRose
March 20th, 2016, 09:27 PM
Witness to us.

Show us that you even remotely understand Koranic Arabic.

Don't keep getting destroyed at the door step...

No one gets "destroyed at the doorstep." A householder either accepts the truth or he doesn't. We are looking for those who are "worthy of our message." (Matthew 10:11-14)

A person doesn't need to know Arabic or Greek to find the truth.

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 09:45 PM
You say that Jesus is Jehovah just to get me going. No one who knows anything about the Bible would say that.

Dr. Bart Ehrman does.




And my "cherry-picked" verse is not destroyed by your adding anything. It is very clear what it means. Jesus says that God is "MY GOD" several times in Rev.3:12. So he couldn't be God. God doesn't have anyone over him.

Context will forever destroy the one-liners from witnesses.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 09:50 PM
But is Mohammed not a "mediator" between Allah and men?
Muhammed died

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 09:51 PM
No one gets "destroyed at the doorstep." A householder either accepts the truth or he doesn't. We are looking for those who are "worthy of our message." (Matthew 10:11-14)

Witnesses get owned all the time at the front door step.

That's why they are so desperate to 'convert' new blood into their cult...they must feverishly pound the pavement and doors....as they watch their membership dwindle...




A person doesn't need to know Arabic or Greek to find the truth.

You know neither...thus, you cannot possibly defend your faith when tested.

We have seen you fall numerous times.

You are just too obtuse to realize that witnesses are a defeated cult that preys on the ignorant.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 10:02 PM
Hey, 50,000 years is even closer to the truth!! Each "day" could've been millions of years!
Day in Quran is unlimited period of time, the number above thousands ,like millions, was not known during revealing of Quran or Bible

Apple7
March 20th, 2016, 10:05 PM
Day in Quran isn't limited period of time, the number above thousands ,like millions, was not known during revealing of Quran or Bible


The same term is used in both the Hebrew and Arabic.

Where do you think the six 'days' came from, muslim?

The authors of the Koran copied it.

egyptianmuslim
March 20th, 2016, 10:08 PM
Wait....wouldn't you say that the Quran is also a mixture of God's words and human words?
Some people are talking in Quran but the narrator is God. Muhammed didn't know any things about the religions or its history

Apple7
March 21st, 2016, 11:06 AM
[Some people are talking in Quran but the narrator is God.

The Koran is written almost entirely in the third-person.

The Koran never once states that it was divinely inspired....rather, it claims that the Biblical material, that it copied itself from, was divinely inspired.





Muhammed didn't know any things about the religions or its history

No one name 'Muhammad' wrote the Koran, or had ANYTHING at all to do with its contents, muslim.

Stop perpetuating this lie!

6days
March 21st, 2016, 01:45 PM
So*BeDuhn is biased....because you don't agree with him. On the other hand, I find his arguments compelling.

Jason BeDuhn, like you and me both is biased. If you think his arguments are compelling then you must agree that a Catholic translation and the NWT are the best? (Does Watchtower tell you he also likes the Catholic Bible?). *BeDuhn is not a scholar of Greek. He does not have his doctorate in languages, but in comparitive religion. He is hardly an expert in translations, but the Watchtower Society promotes him as a expert because he likes their version.

I would not agree that the NWT is corrupted by church doctrine. You may have a point concerning the New Testament because Jehovah's name is placed whereever "God" is written, but other than that, I don't think it is corrupt at all.*

BeDuhn is also critical of the NWT for that reason. The Watchtower Society tries to insert their belief system onto the text by using the word 'Jehovah' into the NT. *There are many changes other than the one you mention though.


The translators based their work on the conclusions of Westcott and Hort. I do not know the names of the people on the committee.It would seem that the Watchtower society is trying to shield their paraphrase from scrutiny by not revealing who the 'translators' are nor their qualifications.*

The "official Catholic Bible," the*New American Bible, is also the product of*a single Christian denomination...just as the NWT. Do you know the names of the NAB translation committee? Why is it that no one questions that version? Excellent point! Likewise I would not put my trust solely in a mormon version. I much prefer translations that are independant of any denomination or cult....and where credentials of translators are not hidden.*

Probably because of this: "Because of its association with the Jehovah's Witnesses, the NWT is often readily pointed to as an example of a translation which*must*have a theological bias You seem to have already agreed the NWT has a bias by using the word Jehovah in the NT.*


Rather than accurately translate, scripture is changed to fit JW beliefs. For example Col.1:16 in theJW Bible reads "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth..."

The NWT adds the word "other" to this verse to make their Bible fit church doctrine that Christ is a created being. It is only the Anonymous Watchtower 'translators' *who add the word. All other teams of translators say something like..."For in him all things were created:A)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-29482A" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; widows: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">things in heaven and on earth..."


The above is just one of many example showing the NWT is a corrupt paraphrase meant to fit church doctrine...and not an actual accurate translation.*

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 07:15 AM
http://ehrmanblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bartehrman_100x100.jpg

 Bart Ehrman January 7, 2013
I don’t have an informed view of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, although it’s true that Arians believed that Jesus was God but not that he was equal with God the Father or co-eternal with him. John 1:1 — I think the proper translation is “The Word was God.” (In this Gospel Jesus appears to be equal with God — here I disagree with the Arian view — but he is not *identical* with God, a major point I think.)
http://ehrmanblog.org/my-next-book/

Does what he said actually make sense? "Jesus is God but not identical with God." Isn't that a contradictory statement?:think:

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 07:29 AM
Re. Apple7's #114

Dr. Ehrman seems confused, does he not?

He and I exchanged emails, and he said this in one of them:

"What I mean is that John's Gospel does not portray Christ as the one and only God---that is God the Father. Christ is absolutely God, for the 4th Gospel. But he is not the *same* as the Father. Does that make sense?"

He says the one and only God is the Father.

Then he says that Christ is "absolutely God, for the 4th Gospel."


Perhaps you find this perfectly fine thinking. I find it is contradictory.

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 07:32 AM
Muhammed died

So then, who is the mediator? Jesus said that he is. He is alive in heaven now. I thought you believed that Mohammed went to heaven on a horse.:think:

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 07:41 AM
Witnesses get owned all the time at the front door step.

That's why they are so desperate to 'convert' new blood into their cult...they must feverishly pound the pavement and doors....as they watch their membership dwindle...





You know neither...thus, you cannot possibly defend your faith when tested.

We have seen you fall numerous times.

You are just too obtuse to realize that witnesses are a defeated cult that preys on the ignorant.

LOL! We really don't lose any sleep over someone's rejection. And our membership isn't dwindling. We grow a bit every month. There's always a slight increase, even with the disfellowshippings.

You should check out the Memorial of Christ's Death that is happening tonight. There'll be one in your area.:D

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 07:45 AM
Some people are talking in Quran but the narrator is God. Muhammed didn't know any things about the religions or its history

I commend you for taking on discussions in English here on TOL. I wish I could learn another language, but this old brain is kind of tired.

Why don't you go and check out the Memorial of Christ's Death tonight at a location in your area? You and your family would be welcome. If you didn't get an invitation, call the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in your locality for directions. :D

KingdomRose
March 23rd, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jason BeDuhn, like you and me both is biased. If you think his arguments are compelling then you must agree that a Catholic translation and the NWT are the best? (Does Watchtower tell you he also likes the Catholic Bible?). *BeDuhn is not a scholar of Greek. He does not have his doctorate in languages, but in comparitive religion. He is hardly an expert in translations, but the Watchtower Society promotes him as a expert because he likes their version.
*

BeDuhn is also critical of the NWT for that reason. The Watchtower Society tries to insert their belief system onto the text by using the word 'Jehovah' into the NT. *There are many changes other than the one you mention though.

It would seem that the Watchtower society is trying to shield their paraphrase from scrutiny by not revealing who the 'translators' are nor their qualifications.*
Excellent point! Likewise I would not put my trust solely in a mormon version. I much prefer translations that are independant of any denomination or cult....and where credentials of translators are not hidden.*
You seem to have already agreed the NWT has a bias by using the word Jehovah in the NT.*


Rather than accurately translate, scripture is changed to fit JW beliefs. For example Col.1:16 in theJW Bible reads "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth..."

The NWT adds the word "other" to this verse to make their Bible fit church doctrine that Christ is a created being. It is only the Anonymous Watchtower 'translators' *who add the word. All other teams of translators say something like..."For in him all things were created:A)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-29482A" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; widows: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">things in heaven and on earth..."


The above is just one of many example showing the NWT is a corrupt paraphrase meant to fit church doctrine...and not an actual accurate translation.*

The Watchtower doesn't talk about Dr. BeDuhn. I can't remember if they even ever mentioned him. It is I myself who discovered him and read his book, which I bought either from Barnes & Noble or through Biblical Archaeology Review. I tell my friends about the book. Most of them haven't heard of him.

No the WT didn't tell me that he likes the Catholic Bible (NAB) too. I have known that ever since I read his book.

Whatever changes there are, in the NWT, from other versions, is because the NWT gets it right! I don't know how you can say that Dr. BeDuhn doesn't know Greek, because he sure seems to know it.

There are NO VERSIONS that are independent of a denomination. If you know of one, please let me know.

Yes, the NWT translation committee is biased, and they know that "Jehovah" appears at least in the quotations from the Old Testament. That is reasonable, because Jehovah's name does appear in the O.T., so to include his name in the quote seems legitimate.

I get the same meaning out of Colossians 1:16 that leaves out "other." We already know that Colossians tells us that Jesus is the first OF creations (verse 15)...the first being created by God Himself. So when it says (without "other") that Jesus created all things, it's a no-brainer that we understand that he created all things after he was brought into existence. I don't need the word "other" in there to tell me what I already know. Anyway, it is clear that "other" is legitimate, because it just truthfully rounds out the statement. Have you noticed in other versions that there are lots of words in italics that have been added? It's not a surreptitious tactic to deceive someone.

The KJV, at John 1:18, says this, for example: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

"Him" was not there in the original sentence. It just said, "he hath declared." Are you going to argue that the King James committee should not have added "him"?

You can bluster all you want about the NWT. It's all hot air. What did Shakespeare say? "Methinks thou protesteth too much." ? It doesn't do any good to get so heated up over the NWT. We'll use ANY version to show you the truth. We used the KJV and the American Standard Bible for many years before we got the NWT.

egyptianmuslim
March 23rd, 2016, 10:34 AM
The same term is used in both the Hebrew and Arabic.

Where do you think the six 'days' came from, muslim?

The authors of the Koran copied it.
Many times I said that muslims believe that the gospel of Jesus , OT and Quran in their original versions are from the same source...God

egyptianmuslim
March 23rd, 2016, 10:43 AM
So then, who is the mediator? Jesus said that he is. He is alive in heaven now. I thought you believed that Mohammed went to heaven on a horse.:think:
Yes muslims believe that the spirit of Muhammed went to heaven,MEERAG
Making a mediator between God and human is a great sin in Islam.

egyptianmuslim
March 23rd, 2016, 10:56 AM
I commend you for taking on discussions in English here on TOL. I wish I could learn another language, but this old brain is kind of tired.

Why don't you go and check out the Memorial of Christ's Death tonight at a location in your area? You and your family would be welcome. If you didn't get an invitation, call the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in your locality for directions. :D
Thank you.
I have a good friendship with the church and christians and I can visit it at any time, J.W are not in Egypt but I think that they are not trinitarians , and they are refused by Orthodox of Egypt..

Apple7
March 23rd, 2016, 11:17 AM
Does what he said actually make sense? "Jesus is God but not identical with God." Isn't that a contradictory statement?:think:

It makes perfect sense to Trinitarians.

God The Son is NOT God The Father.

Each IS God; but each is NOT the other.

It really is a simple logical concept....that even Bart can understand...

Apple7
March 23rd, 2016, 11:23 AM
Re. Apple7's #114

Dr. Ehrman seems confused, does he not?

He and I exchanged emails, and he said this in one of them:

"What I mean is that John's Gospel does not portray Christ as the one and only God---that is God the Father. Christ is absolutely God, for the 4th Gospel. But he is not the *same* as the Father. Does that make sense?"

He says the one and only God is the Father.

Then he says that Christ is "absolutely God, for the 4th Gospel."


Perhaps you find this perfectly fine thinking. I find it is contradictory.



Bart is repeating the TRINITY!!!

This is what we have been trying to tell you for the past year.

If you want to continue to use Bart as a reference going forward, then you have absolutely no choice but to accept his expert conclusion that he has drawn from the Greek...and that is that The Son IS God...same as The Father IS God....but, they are NOT each other!

Gnaw on that...

Apple7
March 23rd, 2016, 05:14 PM
LOL! We really don't lose any sleep over someone's rejection. And our membership isn't dwindling. We grow a bit every month. There's always a slight increase, even with the disfellowshippings.


JW's are a dwindling cult.





You should check out the Memorial of Christ's Death that is happening tonight. There'll be one in your area.:D

This Friday is Good Friday, and Sunday is Easter.

You should attend those events and see what Jesus REALLY did for you....even though you deny Him, as your God and Savior.

Apple7
March 23rd, 2016, 05:18 PM
Many times I said that muslims believe that the gospel of Jesus , OT and Quran in their original versions are from the same source...God

No, brother.

The Koran is not from the God of the Holy Bible.

Not even close.

Islam is feeding you yet more lies.

The Holy Bible is from the true Creator God of the Universe.

Your Koran is a man-made document set to rhyme in Arabic.

Arabic is not an inspired language of scripture.

Crucible
March 23rd, 2016, 05:22 PM
Denial of the Trinity is a mental illness, it seems. They propose that God, who is jealous and desires worship as a Father demands honor from their child, made a being to be worshiped in place of Himself.

You can't fix such bottomless rejection, it's a step into madness without even so much as a rabbit hole to make it interesting.


The whole reason Muslims deny the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ, and the testimonies thereof speaking of such as Timothy falling down to Jesus is because it makes Christ God.

Just as I said, what a fool a person is to declare themselves as Christian and side with Muslims on who God is_

CherubRam
March 23rd, 2016, 05:50 PM
Denial of the Trinity is a mental illness, it seems. They propose that God, who is jealous and desires worship as a Father demands honor from their child, made a being to be worshiped in place of Himself.

You can't fix such bottomless rejection, it's a step into madness without even so much as a rabbit hole to make it interesting.


The whole reason Muslims deny the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ, and the testimonies thereof speaking of such as Timothy falling down to Jesus is because it makes Christ God.

Just as I said, what a fool a person is to declare themselves as Christian and side with Muslims on who God is_

Messiah worship is not what was taught by Yahshua or the prophets, or the disciples. Messiah worship is a corruption of text by the Catholics. It was also against the law and punishable by death.

CherubRam
March 23rd, 2016, 05:53 PM
No, brother.

The Koran is not from the God of the Holy Bible.

Not even close.

Islam is feeding you yet more lies.

The Holy Bible is from the true Creator God of the Universe.

Your Koran is a man-made document set to rhyme in Arabic.

Arabic is not an inspired language of scripture. A lot of scriptures was written in Aramaic, not that it matters. Making up the truth as you go is no different than the Arabs and their Quran.

Crucible
March 23rd, 2016, 06:02 PM
Messiah worship is not what was taught by Yahshua or the prophets, or the disciples. Messiah worship is a corruption of text by the Catholics. It was also against the law and punishable by death.

That's the biggest, most patently dishonest charade of interpretation I have ever seen.

To trade traditional belief for that obvious distortion is something to stay clear away from.

Apple7
March 23rd, 2016, 07:31 PM
A lot of scriptures was written in Aramaic, not that it matters. Making up the truth as you go is no different than the Arabs and their Quran.[/SIZE][/FONT]

What 'made up truth' do you refer?

CherubRam
March 23rd, 2016, 07:52 PM
That's the biggest, most patently dishonest charade of interpretation I have ever seen.

To trade traditional belief for that obvious distortion is something to stay clear away from. You are a accident looking for a place to happen.

Worship only Yahwah

Deuteronomy 6:13
Fear( the Lord / Yahwah) your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

1 Samuel 7:3
So Samuel said to all the Israelites, If you are returning to (the Lord / Yahwah) with all your hearts, then rid yourselves of the foreign gods and the Ashtoreths and commit yourselves to (the Lord / Yahwah) and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.

Matthew 4:10
(Jesus / Yahshua) said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God, and serve him only.

Luke 4:8
(Jesus / Yahshua) answered, It is written: Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God and serve him only.

John 5:41 I do not accept praise from men.


Different translations.
John 5:41 I don't need [or accept; receive] praise [glory; honor] from [men; people.]

I hear Christians say: I don't care who Yahwah is, I only want to worship Jesus. Christ did not come to be worshiped or praised, he came to direct worship and praise to the Father.

6days
March 23rd, 2016, 09:01 PM
There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief
No..... Sorry, but someone has mislead you.

First of all..... Yes many people wrote things that they called gospel. You and I could also write a gospel....But, would our 'gospel' be God's Word? No
The 4 gospels were acknowledged very early by Christians, that these were indeed divinely inspired scripture. There are numerous reasons why these were included in the Bible....and other...and later so called gospels rejected.

But perhaps there is a more important reason why your argument is illogical. At the time the Qu'ran was wrote, it acknowleged the Injil, Torah and Psalms were provided by Allah and given step by step. What Injil do you think the Qu'ran is referring to? We have the same Bibles today as existed when Mohammad walked the earth. So... If the Qu'ran praises the Injil as being Allahs word, then surely the great Muslim libraries in Europe must have copies of Allahs uncorrupted Injil? They must have the Injil that Mohammad praised?
No.... They don't because Muslim scholars now realize that the Injil that Mohammad praised is contradictory to the Qu'ran.

So, Muslims reject their own Qu'ran in what it says about the Bible.

egyptianmuslim
March 23rd, 2016, 10:14 PM
No..... Sorry, but someone has mislead you.

First of all..... Yes many people wrote things that they called gospel. You and I could also write a gospel....But, would our 'gospel' be God's Word? No
The 4 gospels were acknowledged very early by Christians, that these were indeed divinely inspired scripture. There are numerous reasons why these were included in the Bible....and other...and later so called gospels rejected.

But perhaps there is a more important reason why your argument is illogical. At the time the Qu'ran was wrote, it acknowleged the Injil, Torah and Psalms were provided by Allah and given step by step. What Injil do you think the Qu'ran is referring to? We have the same Bibles today as existed when Mohammad walked the earth. So... If the Qu'ran praises the Injil as being Allahs word, then surely the great Muslim libraries in Europe must have copies of Allahs uncorrupted Injil? They must have the Injil that Mohammad praised?
No.... They don't because Muslim scholars now realize that the Injil that Mohammad praised is contradictory to the Qu'ran.

So, Muslims reject their own Qu'ran in what it says about the Bible.
Good post.
What is the meaning of Luke 1:3

6days
March 23rd, 2016, 10:26 PM
The Watchtower doesn't talk about Dr. BeDuhn. Perhaps... I assumed that JW.org was an extension of the watchtower. BeDuhn is certainly promoted by many JW's as an authority.

Whatever changes there are, in the NWT, from other versions, is because the NWT gets it right!Your trust in the anonomous translators.... is noted.


I don't know how you can say that Dr. BeDuhn doesn't know Greek, because he sure seems to know it. You slightly misrepresented what I said. I had said "BeDuhn is not a scholar of Greek. He does not have his doctorate in languages, but in comparitive religion."

My son in law also knows Greek and has a PhD in religion. That hardly qualifies him as a Greek scholar. Nor does it mean he is necessarily capable of critical comparitive analysis of texts from those who are Greek scholars.




There are NO VERSIONS that are independent of a denomination. If you know of one, please let me know.

Hmmmmmmm.....I suspect various denominations have contributed towards various translations, That is quite different that the NWT...a paraphrase / translation made to fit a doctrine... and all by anonymous 'translators'.



Yes, the NWT translation committee is biased, and they know that "Jehovah" appears at least in the quotations from the Old Testament. That is reasonable, because Jehovah's name does appear in the O.T., so to include his name in the quote seems legitimate.


I get the same meaning out of Colossians 1:16that leaves out "other."

That isn't the argument. The argument is that the JW Bible inserted a word to help lend credibility to their beliefs.




We already know that Colossians tells us that Jesus is the first OF creations (verse 15)...the first being created by God Himself. So when it says (without "other") that Jesus created all things,

Again..... That is a little dishonest. Even the JW Bible dioes not say Jesus is the "first OF creations". What it really calls Him is the first born... which is a title as explained here...

"The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is. Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:

•Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
•Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."

Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing"

CARM.






The KJV, at John 1:18, says this, for example: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

"Him" was not there in the original sentence. It just said, "he hath declared." Are you going to argue that the King James committee should not have added "him"?

If for any reason I questioned that translation I could compare to many other translations of whom we know the translation team members and their credentials.. The example I provided you from the JW Bible is clearly different. A word was inserted to fit JW doctrine, Comparing to all other major ttanslations... NONE added the word to change the meaning.

For the record.....


New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.

English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

Berean Study Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.

International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

NET Bible
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.

New American Standard 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Jubilee Bible 2000
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

King James 2000 Bible
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

American King James Version
No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

Douay-Rheims Bible
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Darby Bible Translation
No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, *he* hath declared [him].

English Revised Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Webster's Bible Translation
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Weymouth New Testament
No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.

World English Bible
No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.

egyptianmuslim
March 24th, 2016, 04:16 AM
Good post.
What is the meaning of Luke 1:3
Luke 1:3 means that Gospel of Luke is a human work and not revealed from God to Luke.
There are one Torah and one psalm but there are many Gospels . The story of Jesus birth is different in Quran 1- the birth was beside a palm tree 2- Jesus talked to his mother just after his birth to support her 3- Jesus as a newborn told the folk that God Who sent him " to defend his virgin mother."

1- And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."
[Quran 19 : 23 ]

2- But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
[Quran 19 : 24 ]

3- Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
[Quran 19 : 27 ] O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
[Quran 19 : 28 ] So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Quran 19 : 29 ] [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
[Quran 19 : 30 ] And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
[Quran 19 : 31 ] And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
[Quran 19 : 32 ] And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
[Quran 19 : 33 ]

musterion
March 24th, 2016, 05:27 AM
Luke 1:3 means that Gospel of Luke is a human work and not revealed from God to Luke.
There are one Torah and one psalm but there are many Gospels . The story of Jesus birth is different in Quran 1- the birth was beside a palm tree 2- Jesus talked to his mother just after his birth to support her 3- Jesus as a newborn told the folk that God Who sent him " to defend his virgin mother."

1- And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."
[Quran 19 : 23 ]

2- But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
[Quran 19 : 24 ]

3- Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
[Quran 19 : 27 ] O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
[Quran 19 : 28 ] So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Quran 19 : 29 ] [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
[Quran 19 : 30 ] And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
[Quran 19 : 31 ] And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
[Quran 19 : 32 ] And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
[Quran 19 : 33 ]

You are still in your sin until you drop the false prophet who can't save you and trust in Christ's death, burial and resurrection for your sin and justification. Until then, you remain separated from the one true God (who is not "Allah"). Change your mind while you can.

6days
March 24th, 2016, 09:22 AM
Luke 1:3*means that Gospel of Luke is a human work and not revealed from God to Luke.

There are one Torah and one psalm but there are many Gospels . The story of Jesus birth is different in Quran 1....

You seemed to avoid the question I asked you..... but first a couple corrections on your statement.*

A)Yes...there is one Torah, comprised of several books. Also the one Injil / Gospel is composed of several books.*

B) Luke 1:3 All scripture is written by men, and divinely inspured by God.*


The question I asked....

The Qu'ran tells you that the Injil is Allah's Word and was not corrupted or changed at the time of Mohammad. So, surely the great Muslim libraries in Europe have preserved copies of the Injil? Otherwise..... your claims that the Injil has been changed are false and contradict what the Qu'ran tells you.*

egyptianmuslim
March 24th, 2016, 03:43 PM
6days i don't avoid your q at all , but we muslims know Injeel as the words coming from the mouth of Jesus , because there are many Gospels contain details that do not related to the religion/faith, it is easly for muslims to know the word of God inside the Book , you Christians chose four Books but we muslims should not follow you blindly.. as you have the chance to choose the words of God give us the chance to know it from all Books about life of Jesus. Read with me:
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
[Quran 5 : 47 ]

It tells the people of Gospel to judge by what God revealed in it"because it contains other details"
Conclusion : Al Enjeel= words of Jesus inside Gospels all of them and it is easy to know it from the details of the Book, for example:
There is a Gospel may called Gospel of infancy tells the same story that I told before about birth of Jesus we muslims accept it but not the other that of you.

egyptianmuslim
March 24th, 2016, 04:15 PM
6days, to understand me i'll give you an islamic example, there are two important books in islam:

1- Quran "God words" was written as soon as it revealed to Muhammed
2- Hadith "Muhammed talks"
Books of Hadith was written 100 yrs or more after death of Muhammed . Originally there were more than 300 000 Hadithes but the researchers selected only 10 000 Hadith/talks of Muhammed from the 300 000 ie 1/30 any of them must not contradict Quran because Quran is Muslim's guide and standard.
Books of Hadith is a human work it is logical that not all the 10 000 are true and not all the other 290 000 are false

Apple7
March 24th, 2016, 05:01 PM
... but we muslims know Injeel as the words coming from the mouth of Jesus , ...

Did you know that the word 'injeel' means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ'?

Apple7
March 24th, 2016, 05:03 PM
1- Quran "God words" was written as soon as it revealed to Muhammed


The Koran NEVER claims to be 'Gods words'.

The Koran never claims to have been revealed to anyone name 'Muhammad'.

Stop your lies.

egyptianmuslim
March 24th, 2016, 06:44 PM
Stop your ignorance of Arabic, Quran, and Islam. lt is great sin to lie in religion.

Crucible
March 24th, 2016, 07:22 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Anonymous_Cusco_School_-_Trifacial_Trinity_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

How to make Muslim and non-Trinitarian heads explode :chuckle:

Apple7
March 24th, 2016, 07:32 PM
Stop your ignorance of Arabic, Quran, and Islam. lt is great sin to lie in religion.

Let's expose your lies..


Where in all of the Koran is anything like the following written…?


“I, Muhammad, wrote this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, dictated this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was inspired by an angel”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was divinely inspired”

egyptianmuslim
March 24th, 2016, 09:40 PM
Let's expose your lies..


Where in all of the Koran is anything like the following written…?


“I, Muhammad, wrote this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, dictated this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was inspired by an angel”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was divinely inspired”


And with the truth We have sent the Qur'an down, and with the truth it has descended. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of good tidings and a warner.
[Quran 17 : 105 ]

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
[Quran 26 : 192 ] The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
[Quran 26 : 193 ] Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
[Quran 26 : 194 ]

CherubRam
March 24th, 2016, 10:46 PM
How to make Muslim and non-Trinitarian heads explode :chuckle:
Associating Christ with occult signs is not good.

CherubRam
March 24th, 2016, 10:49 PM
And with the truth We have sent the Qur'an down, and with the truth it has descended. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of good tidings and a warner.
[Quran 17 : 105 ]

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
[Quran 26 : 192 ] The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
[Quran 26 : 193 ] Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
[Quran 26 : 194 ]
The Quran was not sent from heaven. It was written long after Mohammad died.

CherubRam
March 24th, 2016, 10:51 PM
Messiah worship is not what was taught by Yahshua or the prophets, or the disciples. Messiah worship is a corruption of text by the Catholics. It was also against the law and punishable by death.

Bump

Apple7
March 25th, 2016, 07:32 AM
And with the truth We have sent the Qur'an down, and with the truth it has descended. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of good tidings and a warner.
[Quran 17 : 105 ]

And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
[Quran 26 : 192 ] The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
[Quran 26 : 193 ] Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
[Quran 26 : 194 ]


The term 'Muhammad' had to be artificially inserted into the text by islam, as it does not appear in the Arabic.

Further, 'The Truth', refers to Jesus Christ!

CherubRam
March 25th, 2016, 07:42 AM
The term 'Muhammad' had to be artificially inserted into the text by Islam, as it does not appear in the Arabic.

Now that is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 02:18 AM
The Quran was not sent from heaven. It was written long after Mohammad died.
[emoji15]

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 02:24 AM
The term 'Muhammad' had to be artificially inserted into the text by islam, as it does not appear in the Arabic.

Further, 'The Truth', refers to Jesus Christ!
[emoji15]

Who did give Quran to Muslims....... jesus [emoji15]

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 02:27 AM
Did you know that the word 'injeel' means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ'?
Not true, it good news

6days, to understand me i'll give you an islamic example, there are two important books in islam:

1- Quran "God words" was written as soon as it revealed to Muhammed
2- Hadith "Muhammed talks"
Books of Hadith was written 100 yrs or more after death of Muhammed . Originally there were more than 300 000 Hadithes but the researchers selected only 10 000 Hadith/talks of Muhammed from the 300 000 ie 1/30 any of them must not contradict Quran because Quran is Muslim's guide and standard.
Books of Hadith is a human work it is logical that not all the 10 000 are true and not all the other 290 000 are false

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 08:14 AM
[emoji15]

Who did give Quran to Muslims....... jesus [emoji15]


The entire Koran revolves around Jesus Christ....same as its source, the Holy Bible.

The Koran even has numerous chapters named in honor of Jesus.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 08:16 AM
Not true, it good news

Salvation through Jesus Christ is the 'Good News'!

CherubRam
March 26th, 2016, 09:08 AM
[emoji15]

Who did give Quran to Muslims....... jesus [emoji15] Allah is the name of a Pagan God.

Yahshua is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Yahshua called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God. Eloi means: "My God."

Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Yahshua cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

CherubRam
March 26th, 2016, 09:23 AM
So what is the origin of Allah? Allah was not an invention or revelation brought to Muhammad during his visits to the caves outside of Mecca, because Allah existed long before Muhammad showed up on the scene.
According to W. Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's original message was not a criticism of paganism. It was directed at the people who already believed in a god named Allah, or Al-ILAH "the god ascends."
Muhammad encouraged the people of Mecca to retain this generic god in the Kaaba as he directed their attention to Allah, then he threw all of the other gods out. The evolving monotheism of Mecca was vague as to Allah's role, so Muhammad had very little trouble tailoring his new religion to their tastes.
(Watt, W Montgomery, Muhammad, Prophet and Statesman, Oxford Press, 25-26. )

The Satanic Verses allowed the Meccan’s to keep Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. This helped to wean the Meccan’s off of their pantheon slowly, leaving them their three favorite goddesses until Allah's monotheism could be enforced later by the sword.

(Noss, John B, Man's Religions, 6th Edition, Macmillan, NY, 1980, 499, )

At that point Muhammad revised Sura 53 to exclude the three goddesses, and Allah was left standing alone, the monotheistic heir to the estate.

James Hastings, in his Encyclopedia of Religion, says that Muhammed at one point wanted to abandon the rather generic name of Allah for a more colorful one, but he later realized that Allah was holding the people’s attention just fine.

(Hastings, James, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Scribners, NY ,248 ,)

When Muhammad came to Mecca to clean up the Kaaba, and was throwing all of the gods out, except for Allah, the paintings of Jesus and Mary on the inside walls of the Kaaba persuaded him to include Mary and Jesus in the new cult. So that's why Surah 5:116 mentioned Mary.

How Muhammad decided to keep Allah is simply a matter of which god he thought would be universally least offensive to any particular tribe of Arabs around Mecca.

(Muller, Herbert J, The Loom of History, Harper and Brothers, NY, 264-265,)

After all, it was the Kaaba, the building, which was most sacred, rather than the contents. Even today the mosque (which originally was the pre-Islamic name in Arabic and Aramaic for a building holding an idol) is now void of images and symbols.
It is the building itself which is sacred.

The least offensive name of the gods in Mecca was Allah according to Muhammad's biographer, Ibn Hisham. He admits that the pagan Kinanah and Kouraish tribes called the supervising god of the Kaaba, IHLAL. And they called the Kaaba, "Beit Allah," "house of Allah."

This is henotheism where a chief executive god presides over many junior gods on behalf of the ruling tribe living around the god house.

The Greek historian Herodotus from about 450 BC, tells us that the Northern Arabians had a god and goddess named Orotal and Alilat.

(Herodotus, Translated by J Enoch Powell, 1949 , 200 ,)

Orotal is simply a corruption of Allah, or Allah Ta'al, God Most High.

(Zwemmer, Samuel, The Moslem Doctrine of God, Am. Tract Society, NY , 24 , )

Islamic Sheikh, Ibrahim Al-Qattan, in a lecture given to the International Progress Association in Vienna, said that the religion of Arabia can be traced by the epigraphic and inscription evidence back to 500 BC, or 1000 years before Muhammad.

He said that they had gods named Baal Shamin, Dhu-Samawi, Rahman and Allah, which they got from Syria and Persia.

According to Sheikh Ibrahim, Allah was the highest deity, and his name was inscribed in stone by Jewish traders along the Arabian trade routes. These paganized Jews also called him Rahman, while the Arabs called him Allah.

(Al-Qattan, Sheikh Ibrahim, Lecture on Monotheism, I P O Journal, Vienna ,26-29 ,)

It is very clear that these sacred concepts, such as Allah, the Kaaba with its black stone, running around the Kaaba seven times, climbing mount Arafat, as well as the god-name Rahman, and stoning Satan, (which Muhammad got "by revelation") were salvaged from the ancient paganism in Arabia.

(Gabrieli, Francesco, Muhammad and The Conguests of Islam, World Univ. Press, NY, Toronto , 41 ).

The clear dominance of the Meccan thought of Muhammad's day was that Allah was the high god, nothing else. His celestial, or solar, role had even fallen on hard times by 600 AD in the Kaaba, while Allat was much more dominant up the road at Taif. Some have claimed that Allat was Wallat wasn't in Islam, but Surah 53 and historical inscriptions say otherwise. The star and crescent of Islam are clearly based upon the moon goddess, Allat, and the astral goddess, Al-Uzza.
Allat and Al-Uzza figure in Sura 53 in what is called "the Satanic verses," which Muhammad initially gave, but it was later deleted.

The moon and Venus connection to Allat and Al-Uzza are one of the most embarrassing matters for the Mullahs of Islam.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 10:59 AM
Allah is the name of a Pagan God.

Yahshua is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Yahshua called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God. Eloi means: "My God."

Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Yahshua cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

This is true.

The term 'allah' shares the same Arabic root word as do other pagan Arab deities, up to, and including the great serpent, of which, we know to be Satan.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 11:04 AM
The Satanic Verses allowed the Meccan’s to keep Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. This helped to wean the Meccan’s off of their pantheon slowly, leaving them their three favorite goddesses until Allah's monotheism could be enforced later by the sword.

(Noss, John B, Man's Religions, 6th Edition, Macmillan, NY, 1980, 499, )

At that point Muhammad revised Sura 53 to exclude the three goddesses, and Allah was left standing alone, the monotheistic heir to the estate.



Interestingly enough, chapter 53 of the Koran is paraphrased from the Biblical Book Of Revelation, and Al Uzza and Manat are not actually 'satanic verses/deities', but, rather, apply to the creatures in the Revelation narrative.

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 03:36 PM
So what is the origin of Allah? Allah was not an invention or revelation brought to Muhammad during his visits to the caves outside of Mecca, because Allah existed long before Muhammad showed up on the scene.
According to W. Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's original message was not a criticism of paganism. It was directed at the people who already believed in a god named Allah, or Al-ILAH "the god ascends."
Muhammad encouraged the people of Mecca to retain this generic god in the Kaaba as he directed their attention to Allah, then he threw all of the other gods out. The evolving monotheism of Mecca was vague as to Allah's role, so Muhammad had very little trouble tailoring his new religion to their tastes.
(Watt, W Montgomery, Muhammad, Prophet and Statesman, Oxford Press, 25-26. )

The Satanic Verses allowed the Meccan’s to keep Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. This helped to wean the Meccan’s off of their pantheon slowly, leaving them their three favorite goddesses until Allah's monotheism could be enforced later by the sword.

(Noss, John B, Man's Religions, 6th Edition, Macmillan, NY, 1980, 499, )

At that point Muhammad revised Sura 53 to exclude the three goddesses, and Allah was left standing alone, the monotheistic heir to the estate.

James Hastings, in his Encyclopedia of Religion, says that Muhammed at one point wanted to abandon the rather generic name of Allah for a more colorful one, but he later realized that Allah was holding the people’s attention just fine.

(Hastings, James, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Scribners, NY ,248 ,)

When Muhammad came to Mecca to clean up the Kaaba, and was throwing all of the gods out, except for Allah, the paintings of Jesus and Mary on the inside walls of the Kaaba persuaded him to include Mary and Jesus in the new cult. So that's why Surah 5:116 mentioned Mary.

How Muhammad decided to keep Allah is simply a matter of which god he thought would be universally least offensive to any particular tribe of Arabs around Mecca.

(Muller, Herbert J, The Loom of History, Harper and Brothers, NY, 264-265,)

After all, it was the Kaaba, the building, which was most sacred, rather than the contents. Even today the mosque (which originally was the pre-Islamic name in Arabic and Aramaic for a building holding an idol) is now void of images and symbols.
It is the building itself which is sacred.

The least offensive name of the gods in Mecca was Allah according to Muhammad's biographer, Ibn Hisham. He admits that the pagan Kinanah and Kouraish tribes called the supervising god of the Kaaba, IHLAL. And they called the Kaaba, "Beit Allah," "house of Allah."

This is henotheism where a chief executive god presides over many junior gods on behalf of the ruling tribe living around the god house.

The Greek historian Herodotus from about 450 BC, tells us that the Northern Arabians had a god and goddess named Orotal and Alilat.

(Herodotus, Translated by J Enoch Powell, 1949 , 200 ,)

Orotal is simply a corruption of Allah, or Allah Ta'al, God Most High.

(Zwemmer, Samuel, The Moslem Doctrine of God, Am. Tract Society, NY , 24 , )

Islamic Sheikh, Ibrahim Al-Qattan, in a lecture given to the International Progress Association in Vienna, said that the religion of Arabia can be traced by the epigraphic and inscription evidence back to 500 BC, or 1000 years before Muhammad.

He said that they had gods named Baal Shamin, Dhu-Samawi, Rahman and Allah, which they got from Syria and Persia.

According to Sheikh Ibrahim, Allah was the highest deity, and his name was inscribed in stone by Jewish traders along the Arabian trade routes. These paganized Jews also called him Rahman, while the Arabs called him Allah.

(Al-Qattan, Sheikh Ibrahim, Lecture on Monotheism, I P O Journal, Vienna ,26-29 ,)

It is very clear that these sacred concepts, such as Allah, the Kaaba with its black stone, running around the Kaaba seven times, climbing mount Arafat, as well as the god-name Rahman, and stoning Satan, (which Muhammad got "by revelation") were salvaged from the ancient paganism in Arabia.

(Gabrieli, Francesco, Muhammad and The Conguests of Islam, World Univ. Press, NY, Toronto , 41 ).

The clear dominance of the Meccan thought of Muhammad's day was that Allah was the high god, nothing else. His celestial, or solar, role had even fallen on hard times by 600 AD in the Kaaba, while Allat was much more dominant up the road at Taif. Some have claimed that Allat was Wallat wasn't in Islam, but Surah 53 and historical inscriptions say otherwise. The star and crescent of Islam are clearly based upon the moon goddess, Allat, and the astral goddess, Al-Uzza.
Allat and Al-Uzza figure in Sura 53 in what is called "the Satanic verses," which Muhammad initially gave, but it was later deleted.

The moon and Venus connection to Allat and Al-Uzza are one of the most embarrassing matters for the Mullahs of Islam.
1- Allah is Arabic name of the Creator
If you asked them, "Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they would surely say, "Allah." Then how are they deluded?
[Quran 29 : 61 ]

2- Arabic Paganism are originally Abrahamic and they practised circumcision , they made gods as mediators to Allah

Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.
[Quran 39 : 3 ]

3- kaaba is the 1st mosque/church "house for worship God". It may be 1st built by Adam , Abraham and Ishmail renew the building.

Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.
[Quran 3 : 96 ]

And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.
[Quran 2 : 127 ]

4- Muhammed/Quran fought Paganism"allat,uzza, manat" from start.

And were saying, "Are we to leave our gods for a mad poet?"
[Quran 37 : 36 ]

5- Moon or stars are not sacred by Muslims.

And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to Allah, who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.
[Quran 41 : 37 ]

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 07:04 PM
5- Moon or stars are not sacred by Muslims.


Really?

Then why do you swear by them....?

Shakir: I swear by the star when it goes down. (53.1)

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 07:18 PM
1- Allah is Arabic name of the Creator
If you asked them, "Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they would surely say, "Allah." Then how are they deluded?
[Quran 29 : 61 ]



Perhaps the biggest hypocritical contradiction is the fact that Muslims deny that Jesus is the Son, while at the same time their Koran proclaims that Jesus is indeed the Son.

In fact, the Hypocritisizing (new word from George W.) continues as followers of islam turn their heads when the Son is described as having ex-nihilo creative powers…


بديع السموت والأرض أنى يكون له ولد ولم تكن
له صحبة وخلق كل شيء وهو بكل شيء عليم

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi anna yakoonu lahu waladun walam takun lahu sahibatun wakhalaqa kulla shay-in wahuwa bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

6.101 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth, that He has certainly been his Son, and certainly not to be his companion, and He created every thing that He will, and He with every thing that he will, who knows.


Same word used here…

وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما يقول له كن فيكون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona badeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu


And they said: " 'allah' he has taken a Son, glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.” Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is. (2.116 – 117)



Creation by the Word?

Creation by the Son?

Wake up followers of islam…


Rather odd for the Son to be mentioned in these two “creation-out-of nothing” ayahs if He is just a mere Son….or, according to islam…not even a son…


Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, creator of heaven and earth.

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 07:47 PM
Really?

Then why do you swear by them....?

Shakir: I swear by the star when it goes down. (53.1)
The oath is by God only. You don't know Quran

Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
[Quran 56 : 75 ]
This oath is related to God. God swear by His creature as a great thing, nothing is sacred by God

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 07:50 PM
Perhaps the biggest hypocritical contradiction is the fact that Muslims deny that Jesus is the Son, while at the same time their Koran proclaims that Jesus is indeed the Son.

In fact, the Hypocritisizing (new word from George W.) continues as followers of islam turn their heads when the Son is described as having ex-nihilo creative powers…


بديع السموت والأرض أنى يكون له ولد ولم تكن
له صحبة وخلق كل شيء وهو بكل شيء عليم

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi anna yakoonu lahu waladun walam takun lahu sahibatun wakhalaqa kulla shay-in wahuwa bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

6.101 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth, that He has certainly been his Son, and certainly not to be his companion, and He created every thing that He will, and He with every thing that he will, who knows.


Same word used here…

وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما يقول له كن فيكون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona badeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu


And they said: " 'allah' he has taken a Son, glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.” Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is. (2.116 – 117)



Creation by the Word?

Creation by the Son?

Wake up followers of islam…


Rather odd for the Son to be mentioned in these two “creation-out-of nothing” ayahs if He is just a mere Son….or, according to islam…not even a son…


Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, creator of heaven and earth.
[emoji15]
Wake up Apple

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 07:52 PM
Really?

Then why do you swear by them....?

Shakir: I swear by the star when it goes down. (53.1)
Who is " I "??

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 08:34 PM
The oath is by God only. You don't know Quran

Your god 'allah' is not even mentioned anywhere in the entire chapter.....so, no.






Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
[Quran 56 : 75 ]
This oath is related to God. God swear by His creature as a great thing, nothing is sacred by God

Again, no....

Chapter 56 was copied from the Biblical Book of Revelation....no mention of your god 'allah' anywhere in this chapter, either.

A small sampling...

56.4 When the earth is shaken with violent shaking. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

56.5 And the mountains shall be crumbled with a vehement crumbling and be leveled. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

56.6 So it was scattered dust particles. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 08:38 PM
Who is " I "??


والنجم إذا هوى ما ضل صاحبكم وما غوى وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحي يوحى

Waalnnajmi itha hawa ma dalla sahibukum wama ghawa wama yantiqu AAani alhawa in huwa illa wahyun yooha

And/by the asterism, when he fell down. Your companion did not perish, and he did not err. And he speaks not on account of his own will. Indeed he is except Revelation that is inspired. (53.1 – 4)


Sura 53 is named in honor of the Biblical Jesus Christ and the material contained within this chapter is taken primarily from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

The opening ayahs to this chapter refer to John (the author who recorded the Book of Revelation) as “your companion” (sahibukum).

The inspired Revelation that is mentioned is Book of Revelation material, only, as has already been revealed to John, by Jesus Christ.

These ayahs do not refer to anyone named “Muhammad”, nor do they refer to the “Koran” as being divinely inspired.

KingdomRose
March 26th, 2016, 09:00 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Anonymous_Cusco_School_-_Trifacial_Trinity_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

How to make Muslim and non-Trinitarian heads explode :chuckle:

You are right, and JESUS' head too!! What blasphemy.

KingdomRose
March 26th, 2016, 09:03 PM
JW's are a dwindling cult.






This Friday is Good Friday, and Sunday is Easter.

You should attend those events and see what Jesus REALLY did for you....even though you deny Him, as your God and Savior.

Are you going to participate in pagan Easter-egg hunts? Do you not see the inconsistency between Jesus' resurrection and the rabbits and eggs of pagan fertility rites?

You have no inkling of what Jesus really did for you.

KingdomRose
March 26th, 2016, 09:18 PM
Re. six days post #146:

Not that it makes the difference of a hill of beans, but just where do you get the idea that "Many JWs promote Jason BeDuhn"? Can you answer that?

For you to disregard Dr. BeDuhn's book because he doesn't have a Doctorate in languages is really splitting hairs. He obviously knows basic rules in translating Greek to English, and that is sufficient for an argument, say, about John 1:1.

The NWT is not a "paraphrase." It follows closely what the verse actually says in the Greek or Hebrew, and applies the rules for clear concise translation.

You didn't get what I said. The belief that Jesus was brought into existence first and then created all things doesn't hinge on the word "other." We can leave that off if you prefer. I showed you that words are added all the time to round out the meaning of the verse. You made my point by listing that last item on your list: Young's Literal Translation does not use "him" anywhere because IT WAS NOT IN THE GREEK SENTENCE. That's just what I said. It wasn't there, but other versions PUT IT IN. Same with Colossians 1:15 and the NWT, though no version I've seen yet put "other" in. The point remains.

Stop grasping at straws. It's unbecoming.

KingdomRose
March 26th, 2016, 09:28 PM
The oath is by God only. You don't know Quran

Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
[Quran 56 : 75 ]
This oath is related to God. God swear by His creature as a great thing, nothing is sacred by God

Egyptian....It is useless to argue with Apple and Crucible and Six Days. They are here to judge and tear down. I had a very bad view of the Quran also, but since you've been here I don't feel so angry. I have read parts of it and I can see messages that disturb me and also messages that seem to contradict the Bible. But now I would rather concentrate on good, positive ideas.

Something very positive is the message of Jehovah's people. One Muslim I talked with years ago got very mad and said that Jehovah wasn't the same as Allah. I didn't know why he got so mad, because Muslims honor the Bible, right? and the Bible says that God's name is YHWH (Jehovah). Anyway, Jehovah's Witnesses teach people about what Jesus did and why. It is a wonderful hope.

Go to this website and select your own language to read in: www.jw.org

Crucible
March 26th, 2016, 09:38 PM
You are right, and JESUS' head too!! What blasphemy.

You should be bumped off the site for calling the Trinity blasphemy, especially when your alternative notion is retarded.

You're the blasphemous fool, not me.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 09:39 PM
Are you going to participate in pagan Easter-egg hunts? Do you not see the inconsistency between Jesus' resurrection and the rabbits and eggs of pagan fertility rites?

Easter egg hunts are for children.

When they are able to understand life and death, then they can learn about Jesus as God.






You have no inkling of what Jesus really did for you.

Yes, I do.

Remember, Dr. Bart Ehrman tells you that Jesus is ABSOLUTELY God.

Don't run from it.

Embrace it.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 09:44 PM
He obviously knows basic rules in translating Greek to English, and that is sufficient for an argument, say, about John 1:1.

Dr. Bart Ehrman (the very scholar you have adored for decades, and have used as your reference standard) told YOU directly that Jesus is ABSOLUTELY God in John 1.1.

Trust him.





The NWT is not a "paraphrase." It follows closely what the verse actually says in the Greek or Hebrew, and applies the rules for clear concise translation.

Liberals Arts majors rendered your NWT.

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 09:47 PM
Egyptian....It is useless to argue with Apple and Crucible and Six Days. They are here to judge and tear down.

We are here to correct and clarify cults like islam and witnesses.

egyptianmuslim
March 26th, 2016, 09:52 PM
Egyptian....It is useless to argue with Apple and Crucible and Six Days. They are here to judge and tear down. I had a very bad view of the Quran also, but since you've been here I don't feel so angry. I have read parts of it and I can see messages that disturb me and also messages that seem to contradict the Bible. But now I would rather concentrate on good, positive ideas.

Something very positive is the message of Jehovah's people. One Muslim I talked with years ago got very mad and said that Jehovah wasn't the same as Allah. I didn't know why he got so mad, because Muslims honor the Bible, right? and the Bible says that God's name is YHWH (Jehovah). Anyway, Jehovah's Witnesses teach people about what Jesus did and why. It is a wonderful hope.

Go to this website and select your own language to read in: www.jw.org
Thank you.
I know Apple and others but I'm writting for other unknown people who reads our posts.
The name of God isn't the problem but it is important to know who is God.


Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]
............
It good to get information from its original sources I'll visit JW

Apple7
March 26th, 2016, 09:56 PM
I know Apple and others but I'm writting for other unknown people who reads our posts.


Your posts are for educational purposes, only.

You require constant Biblical correction in your Koranic ignorance...

egyptianmuslim
March 27th, 2016, 03:28 AM
Your posts are for educational purposes, only.

You require constant Biblical correction in your Koranic ignorance...
[emoji15]

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 01:26 PM
Thank you.
I know Apple and others but I'm writting for other unknown people who reads our posts.
The name of God isn't the problem but it is important to know who is God.


Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]
............
It good to get information from its original sources I'll visit JW

Calling upon the name of a Pagan god is not good.

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 01:31 PM
[emoji15]

Honor His Name
For thousands of years the refusing to use a person's name has been a direct form of dishonor. Shortening the name, replacing the name, distorting the name, all are signs of dishonor.


Honorable Mention
An “honorable mention” is a title of distinction given to a person worthy of mention. Upon honoring the person their name is mentioned, so their name has a place of honor known among the people.


Malachi 1:6
“A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says [the LORD / Yahwah] Almighty. “It is you priests who show contempt for my name. “But you ask, ‘How have we shown contempt for your name?’


So what are your thoughts about this?


Malachi 2:2
If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says [the LORD / Yahwah Almighty], “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.


Something to think about.

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 01:35 PM
You should be bumped off the site for calling the Trinity blasphemy, especially when your alternative notion is retarded.

You're the blasphemous fool, not me.

Trinitarianism comes from Gnostic Paganism. It does not come from Judaic teachings. Such notions were introduced by the Catholics into the scriptures.

KingdomRose
March 27th, 2016, 01:43 PM
Thank you.
I know Apple and others but I'm writting for other unknown people who reads our posts.
The name of God isn't the problem but it is important to know who is God.


Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]
............
It good to get information from its original sources I'll visit JW

Thank you, Egyptian. (You bear up well under the attacks of these venomous interlopers who speak against the one true God.)

KingdomRose
March 27th, 2016, 01:46 PM
Calling upon the name of a Pagan god is not good.

Tell that to all the "Christians" who are today calling on the name of the pagan fertility goddess Astarte (from whence the word Easter is formed).

KingdomRose
March 27th, 2016, 01:51 PM
Allah is the name of a Pagan God.

Yahshua is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Yahshua called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God. Eloi means: "My God."

Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Yahshua cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Ooooh snap! That's right....Jesus called out to the Father, "MY GOD, MY GOD!" Another example of Jesus showing us that he has a God! Can God have a God?

:nono:

KingdomRose
March 27th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Interestingly enough, chapter 53 of the Koran is paraphrased from the Biblical Book Of Revelation, and Al Uzza and Manat are not actually 'satanic verses/deities', but, rather, apply to the creatures in the Revelation narrative.

Instead of doing nothing but tearing down, why don't you tell Egyptian about the positive things about God and Jesus? Like how Jesus will bring back the earth to Paradise conditions when he rules, according to Isaiah 9:6,7, Daniel 2:44, and Isaiah chapter 11?

KingdomRose
March 27th, 2016, 02:01 PM
Honor His Name
For thousands of years the refusing to use a person's name has been a direct form of dishonor. Shortening the name, replacing the name, distorting the name, all are signs of dishonor.


Honorable Mention
An “honorable mention” is a title of distinction given to a person worthy of mention. Upon honoring the person their name is mentioned, so their name has a place of honor known among the people.


Malachi 1:6
“A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says [the LORD / Yahwah] Almighty. “It is you priests who show contempt for my name. “But you ask, ‘How have we shown contempt for your name?’


So what are your thoughts about this?


Malachi 2:2
If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says [the LORD / Yahwah Almighty], “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.


Something to think about.



Yes, really. All the good "Christians" here refuse to use the personal name of the God of the Bible, the one true God, Jehovah (Psalm 83:18, KJV; John 17:3), proving to be no better than what you say Egyptian is.

Crucible
March 27th, 2016, 02:26 PM
[B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Trinitarianism comes from Gnostic Paganism.

No it doesn't. A lot of people in this age always try to find some sort of correlation to paganism to deny something, and denying the Trinity is one of those things.

Correlation does not imply causation- skeptics will say that Yahweh is from Abraham in his time in Egypt, where the Sun, whom God is symbolized as, was their high god.
Do you believe that?

But here you are, doing as they do :rolleyes:

The Trinity was proposed to directly harmonize the scriptures you say do not speak of Christ being God. Your interpretation is fixed on a bias against Trinitarians, and nothing more.


It does not come from Judaic teachings.

And the Jews crucified Christ. What does that tell you?

Go be Judaic. Or Muslim. But don't sit here and report that you are a Christian and tell others they are blasphemous for adhering to THE GOD OF CHRISTIANITY.

Apple7
March 27th, 2016, 03:11 PM
Ooooh snap! That's right....Jesus called out to the Father, "MY GOD, MY GOD!" Another example of Jesus showing us that he has a God! Can God have a God?

:nono:

Dr. Ehrman (whom you have trusted for decades) told you directly, that Jesus is absolutely God.

That must be baking your noodle something fierce...

Apple7
March 27th, 2016, 03:17 PM
Instead of doing nothing but tearing down, why don't you tell Egyptian about the positive things about God and Jesus?

Its called 'correcting the cults'.

Anything that does not align with your jaded worldview, is magically destructive...







Like how Jesus will bring back the earth to Paradise conditions when he rules, according to Isaiah 9:6,7, Daniel 2:44, and Isaiah chapter 11?

Jesus' Kingdom is spiritual, not of this world....why would He need to resuscitate planet earth?

You already been exposed for having mis-interpreted verses like John 1.1, for decades....now we need to do some more cleanup on your cultic views...

Apple7
March 27th, 2016, 03:21 PM
Yes, really. All the good "Christians" here refuse to use the personal name of the God of the Bible, the one true God, Jehovah (Psalm 83:18, KJV; John 17:3), proving to be no better than what you say Egyptian is.

Dr. Bart Ehrman (the scholar you adore) has already informed witnesses that 'Jehovah' is not the personal name in either the OT or the NT.

Yahweh is His personal name.

egyptianmuslim
March 27th, 2016, 03:40 PM
Calling upon the name of a Pagan god is not good.
Allah isn't a name of God . AL=the, ELAH=god ie Allah means the god it is known for pagan as the Creator , the origin of all things

If you asked them, "Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they would surely say, "Allah." Then how are they deluded?
[Quran 29 : 61 ] them = unbelievers= arabic idolaters. You=Muhammed

And to Allah belong the best names, so invoke Him by them. And leave [the company of] those who practice deviation concerning His names. They will be recompensed for what they have been doing.
[Quran 7 : 180 ]

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]

He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him . He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
[Quran 59 :22- 24 ]

Apple7
March 27th, 2016, 06:15 PM
Allah isn't a name of God . AL=the, ELAH=god ie Allah means the god it is known for pagan as the Creator , the origin of all things

If you asked them, "Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they would surely say, "Allah." Then how are they deluded?
[Quran 29 : 61 ] them = unbelievers= arabic idolaters. You=Muhammed

And to Allah belong the best names, so invoke Him by them. And leave [the company of] those who practice deviation concerning His names. They will be recompensed for what they have been doing.
[Quran 7 : 180 ]

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]

He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him . He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
[Quran 59 :22- 24 ]


Knowing that your god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…


الحمد لله رب العلمين

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.


And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan….Please explain how it is that your god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…



قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?


Seems your very own book of faith is declaring that if you worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran then you are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.





We can easily see that chapter 41 was copied from previous Biblical material and converted into Arabic, as the Koran was supposedly oral during this time and did not contain verses nor was it in book form, as described below in the chapter introduction…

The Revelation from the most gracious, the merciful. A Book, its verses detailed, an Arabic collection to a nation they know. Bearer of good tidings and warner, so most of them He turned away, so they do not hear. (41.2 – 4)



Again, at the end of the same chapter we read that the Book of Revelation is an excellent book which separates truth from falsehood….


Truly who disbelieved with the account when it came to them, and truly it is an excellent Book. He does not come to him with the falsehood from between his two hands, and nor from after him; The Revelation is from one who possesses quality which discriminates between truth and falsehood and is free from doubt, praiseworthy. (41.41 – 42)



Simply more evidence that you need to study your book of faith and listen to it when it declares that it copied itself from the Holy Bible and that the god ‘allah’ that you worship is nothing more than an idol of Satan!

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 07:02 PM
Allah isn't a name of God . AL=the, ELAH=god ie Allah means the god it is known for pagan as the Creator , the origin of all things

If you asked them, "Who created the heavens and earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they would surely say, "Allah." Then how are they deluded?
[Quran 29 : 61 ] them = unbelievers= arabic idolaters. You=Muhammed

And to Allah belong the best names, so invoke Him by them. And leave [the company of] those who practice deviation concerning His names. They will be recompensed for what they have been doing.
[Quran 7 : 180 ]

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.
[Quran 17 : 110 ]

He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him . He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
[Quran 59 :22- 24 ] Mohammad did not know the name of God. Allah is the name of a Pagan god. The word "IL" in Aramaic and Arabic means "god." IL is a title and not a name. Allah is the short form of Alilah. It means: "The god ascends." It is referring to the rising sun. Allah was part of a trinity.

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 07:10 PM
Name of other gods
The Jewish reader is advised not to pronounce the names Jesus and Eastre.

"The names of other gods you shall not mention, nor shall your mouth cause it to be heard." Exodus 23:13 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Exodus%2023.13)

As you can see the Jews use the word "mention" in their translation. The correct translation is "invoke" or "call upon." We are allowed to speak of other (elohims or gods,) but we are not allowed to call upon them. Do you understand?

As a reminder, Yahshua said we are to pray to Yahwah our Holy Father, the Holy Spirit.

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 07:16 PM
God
Ancient Hebrew: IL.
Aramaic: IL.
Hebrew: EL.
English: God.
Spanish: Dios.
Italian: Iddio, Iddìo, Dio.
German: Gutes, Gott.
Germanic, Old French: Gott.
French: Dieux, Dieu.
Greek: Theo, Theos.
Latin: Deus.
Norwegian: Gud.
Swedish: Gud.
Portugese: Deus.

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 08:27 PM
The Arab's cursed the God of Abraham because He would not curse the Hebrews for them. Before the Arab's cursed the God of Abraham, the Arab's called the God of Abraham, "Yahwah."

Numbers 24:10 Then Balak's anger burned against Balaam. He struck his hands together and said to him, "I summoned you to curse my enemies, but you have blessed them these three times. 11 Now leave at once and go home! I said I would reward you handsomely, but the LORD / Yahwah has kept you from being rewarded."

12 Balaam answered Balak, "Did I not tell the messengers you sent me, 13 'Even if Balak gave me his palace filled with silver and gold, I could not do anything of my own accord, good or bad, to go beyond the command of the LORD/ Yahwah -and I must say only what the LORD / Yahwah says'? 14 Now I am going back to my people, but come, let me warn you of what this people will do to your people in days to come."

CherubRam
March 27th, 2016, 08:33 PM
God's personal name was cursed by the Arab's, and not to ever be spoken or written. That is why Mohammad did not know the name of God as Yahwah. If Mohammad was truly a prophet, he would have known the name of God.

egyptianmuslim
March 27th, 2016, 11:41 PM
Mohammad did not know the name of God. Allah is the name of a Pagan god. The word "IL" in Aramaic and Arabic means "god." IL is a title and not a name. Allah is the short form of Alilah. It means: "The god ascends." It is referring to the rising sun. Allah was part of a trinity.
Not true, you need to visit wikip.

CherubRam
March 28th, 2016, 12:59 AM
Not true, you need to visit wikip.

Either there is a problem in translation, or you are brain dead.:think:

CherubRam
March 28th, 2016, 01:07 AM
The article: Allah From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; it is a lie. It is written that way to make Muslims happy.

CherubRam
March 28th, 2016, 01:43 AM
Mohammad did not know the name of God. Allah is the name of a Pagan god. The word "IL" in Aramaic and Arabic means "god." IL is a title and not a name. Allah is the short form of Alilah. It means: "The god ascends." It is referring to the rising sun. Allah was part of a trinity.


Name of other gods
The Jewish reader is advised not to pronounce the names Jesus and Eastre.

"The names of other gods you shall not mention, nor shall your mouth cause it to be heard." Exodus 23:13 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Exodus%2023.13)

As you can see the Jews use the word "mention" in their translation. The correct translation is "invoke" or "call upon." We are allowed to speak of other (elohims or gods,) but we are not allowed to call upon them. Do you understand?

As a reminder, Yahshua said we are to pray to Yahwah our Holy Father, the Holy Spirit.


God
Ancient Hebrew: IL.
Aramaic: IL.
Hebrew: EL.
English: God.
Spanish: Dios.
Italian: Iddio, Iddìo, Dio.
German: Gutes, Gott.
Germanic, Old French: Gott.
French: Dieux, Dieu.
Greek: Theo, Theos.
Latin: Deus.
Norwegian: Gud.
Swedish: Gud.
Portugese: Deus.


The Arab's cursed the God of Abraham because He would not curse the Hebrews for them. Before the Arab's cursed the God of Abraham, the Arab's called the God of Abraham, "Yahwah."

Numbers 24:10 Then Balak's anger burned against Balaam. He struck his hands together and said to him, "I summoned you to curse my enemies, but you have blessed them these three times. 11 Now leave at once and go home! I said I would reward you handsomely, but the LORD / Yahwah has kept you from being rewarded."

12 Balaam answered Balak, "Did I not tell the messengers you sent me, 13 'Even if Balak gave me his palace filled with silver and gold, I could not do anything of my own accord, good or bad, to go beyond the command of the LORD/ Yahwah -and I must say only what the LORD / Yahwah says'? 14 Now I am going back to my people, but come, let me warn you of what this people will do to your people in days to come."


God's personal name was cursed by the Arab's, and not to ever be spoken or written. That is why Mohammad did not know the name of God as Yahwah. If Mohammad was truly a prophet, he would have known the name of God.

Allah is a pig dressed in a woman's dress, wearing lipstick.

egyptianmuslim
March 28th, 2016, 03:38 PM
Knowing that your god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…


الحمد لله رب العلمين

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.


And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan….Please explain how it is that your god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…



قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?


Seems your very own book of faith is declaring that if you worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran then you are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.





We can easily see that chapter 41 was copied from previous Biblical material and converted into Arabic, as the Koran was supposedly oral during this time and did not contain verses nor was it in book form, as described below in the chapter introduction…

The Revelation from the most gracious, the merciful. A Book, its verses detailed, an Arabic collection to a nation they know. Bearer of good tidings and warner, so most of them He turned away, so they do not hear. (41.2 – 4)



Again, at the end of the same chapter we read that the Book of Revelation is an excellent book which separates truth from falsehood….


Truly who disbelieved with the account when it came to them, and truly it is an excellent Book. He does not come to him with the falsehood from between his two hands, and nor from after him; The Revelation is from one who possesses quality which discriminates between truth and falsehood and is free from doubt, praiseworthy. (41.41 – 42)



Simply more evidence that you need to study your book of faith and listen to it when it declares that it copied itself from the Holy Bible and that the god ‘allah’ that you worship is nothing more than an idol of Satan!



Is the Lord not the God of Satan.

CherubRam
March 28th, 2016, 04:13 PM
Is the Lord not the God of Satan.

Satan is a parable, there is no such person as Satan or the Devil.

Apple7
March 28th, 2016, 08:16 PM
Is the Lord not the God of Satan.

The god that you worship, allah, is first, and foremost, the ruler of the demons, and then mankind that has been possessed by demons....of which, is Satan, himself...

Apple7
March 28th, 2016, 08:21 PM
Instead of doing nothing but tearing down, why don't you tell Egyptian about the positive things about God and Jesus?


The originator of your religion is Chuck Russell from Pennsylvania.....from back in the 1800's....no different than Joe Smith of the Mormons....yeah...you carry a lot of clout in whatever you say....NOT!

egyptianmuslim
March 28th, 2016, 09:03 PM
The god that you worship, allah, is first, and foremost, the ruler of the demons, and then mankind that has been possessed by demons....of which, is Satan, himself...
Rabbe Elalaamin"God of the worlds" means the God of known and unknown worlds,for human,.

You didn't answer my q , Is Lord the God of satan or not?

egyptianmuslim
March 28th, 2016, 09:43 PM
which god are you referring to? allah or whatever his or her name is? If so then yes of satan
Of course, Apple usually deform the English meaning of Quran.

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 11:06 AM
Rabbe Elalaamin"God of the worlds" means the God of known and unknown worlds,for human,.


Wrong.




You didn't answer my q , Is Lord the God of satan or not?

Nope.

You just transposed the terms.

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 11:07 AM
Of course, Apple usually deform the English meaning of Quran.

Prove it.

CherubRam
March 29th, 2016, 11:29 AM
Not true, you need to visit wikip. Here is what you fail to understand: I have been talking to you about who Allah was "BEFORE" Mohammad introduced him as the only god. The Wikipedia article about Allah is "AFTER" Mohammad introduced Allah as the only god. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID TO YOU NOW?

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 03:24 PM
Prove it.
Because you explain Quran without any knowledge of Arabic and Quran?

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 03:34 PM
Here is what you fail to understand: I have been talking to you about who Allah was "BEFORE" Mohammad introduced him as the only god. The Wikipedia article about Allah is "AFTER" Mohammad introduced Allah as the only god. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID TO YOU NOW?
Allah is not a personal name of God Allah means the god = God, Arabic Christian use the word in the Bible and their life, see:
Genesis 1:1في البدء خلق "الله"السماوات والأرض
You complicate a simple things.

CherubRam
March 29th, 2016, 04:30 PM
Allah is not a personal name of God Allah means the god = God, Arabic Christian use the word in the Bible and their life, see:
Genesis 1:1في البدء خلق "الله"السماوات والأرض
You complicate a simple things.

You still do not get it. In Aramaic "The God" is Ilha: (Ha / the) and (Il / God.) Allah WAS the name of a Pagan god that the Arabs worshiped. The Aramaic to Arabic language changed. The name of the Pagan god was Alilah; it was shortened to Allah, and now is read as (The God.) DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND? Correct translation of Genesis 1:1. In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. (Elohim / Elohiym) From Aramaic: (God of the living.)

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 04:39 PM
You still do not get it. In Aramaic "The God" is Ilha: (Ha / the) and (Il / God.) Allah WAS the name of a Pagan god that the Arabs worshiped. The Aramaic to Arabic language changed. The name of the Pagan god was Alilah; it was shortened to Allah, and now is read as (The God.) DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND? Correct translation of Genesis 1:1. In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. (Elohim / Elohiym) From Aramaic: (God of the living.)
Is Elohim a personal name of God?no it is the aramic word of God,as you said, likewise Allah of arabic v. Bible, likewise the word God in English v. Bible. If you would like to put Elohim translate all Bible to Aramic.

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 05:17 PM
Because you explain Quran without any knowledge of Arabic and Quran?

I know Koranic Arabic just fine....been studying it for the past two decades.

I have yet to encounter a follower of islam who knows it better than myself.

The best that you can do is post someone else's English rendering...and that's it...

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 05:21 PM
Allah is not a personal name of God Allah means the god = God, Arabic Christian use the word in the Bible and their life, see:
Genesis 1:1في البدء خلق "الله"السماوات والأرض
You complicate a simple things.

That is translational Arabic, only.

If you want to go there, then Arabic Christians also state that Allah has an only begotten Son named Jesus Christ!

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:16 PM
That is translational Arabic, only.

If you want to go there, then Arabic Christians also state that Allah has an only begotten Son named Jesus Christ!
True .
They say, "Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him,
[Quran 2 : 116 ]

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:19 PM
Apple, Who is Noah?

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 09:25 PM
True .
They say, "Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him,
[Quran 2 : 116 ]




وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona

2.116 And they said: " “allah” he has taken (a) Son, glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.”


Observe that the above ayah confirms that Jesus is the Son - with the Glory going to Him, same as declared in John.

Further, this ayah confirms that the heavens and the earth are obedient to the Son.



And the next ayah…



بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما
يقول له كن فيكون

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

2.117 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so certainly only Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is.



2.117 confirms that the entire universe was created by ONLY the Son (i.e. the Word).






Here is another Koranic ayah with the same message…


بديع السموت والأرض أنى يكون له ولد ولم تكن
له صحبة وخلق كل شيء وهو بكل شيء عليم

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi anna yakoonu lahu waladun walam takun lahu sahibatun wakhalaqa kulla shay-in wahuwa bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

6.101 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth, that He has certainly been his Son, and certainly not to be his companion, and He created every thing that He will, and He on account of every thing that he will who knows.



Thus…the authors give full credit to the Son, Jesus Christ, for the creation of the Universe.

Just as stated in the Holy Bible.

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 09:28 PM
Apple, Who is Noah?


Noah is a man who worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 6.9

These are the generations of Noah. Noah, a righteous man, had been perfected among his family. Noah walked with HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’).

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 09:33 PM
Allah is not a personal name of God Allah means the god = God, Arabic Christian use the word in the Bible and their life, see:
Genesis 1:1في البدء خلق "الله"السماوات والأرض
You complicate a simple things.


Since you regard this as translational Arabic, then the term 'allah', which was substituted for the original Hebrew 'Elohim', must impart the same original meaning as the word 'Elohim' of which, is plural.

Thus, your ignorance of the original languages is your down-fall...again...

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:35 PM
Noah is a man who worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 6.9

These are the generations of Noah. Noah, a righteous man, had been perfected among his family. Noah walked with HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’).
How Noah is a righteous man in the Eye of God? God did tell Noah that He will erase all mankind , why?

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:40 PM
Since you regard this as translational Arabic, then the term 'allah', which was substituted for the original Hebrew 'Elohim', must impart the same original meaning as the word 'Elohim' of which, is plural.

Thus, your ignorance of the original languages is your down-fall...again...
Ask Arabic Christian who put it

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 09:40 PM
How Noah is a righteous man in the Eye of God? God did tell Noah that He will erase all mankind , why?

You are considered Righteous in scripture if you worship The Creator as He has revealed Himself, Triune.

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:49 PM
Noah is a man who worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 6.9

These are the generations of Noah. Noah, a righteous man, had been perfected among his family. Noah walked with HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’).
Did Moses also worship the triune God, what is the difference between Noah and Moses??were both Christians?

egyptianmuslim
March 29th, 2016, 09:55 PM
Apple, read all my q and i 'll see you in other time

Apple7
March 29th, 2016, 10:00 PM
Did Moses also worship the triune God,

Of course!

He wrote repeatedly of a Triune God in the OT.





what is the difference between Noah and Moses??were both Christians?

Both worshiped God as Triune.

CherubRam
March 30th, 2016, 01:19 AM
Is Elohim a personal name of God?no it is the aramic word of God,as you said, likewise Allah of arabic v. Bible, likewise the word God in English v. Bible. If you would like to put Elohim translate all Bible to Aramic.

Elohim is a title for God, as is also Holy Spirit. God's personal name in Aramaic and ancient Hebrew is (Yahwah.)

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

CherubRam
March 30th, 2016, 01:24 AM
Of course!

He wrote repeatedly of a Triune God in the OT.

Both worshiped God as Triune.

Trinitarianism was never a teaching in Judaism. God says that He alone is God, and that He knows of no others.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 02:11 AM
Dr. Ehrman (whom you have trusted for decades) told you directly, that Jesus is absolutely God.

That must be baking your noodle something fierce...

Uh, no. I just was wrong about him. He apparently has no desire to rock the boat with his contemporaries, unlike the free thinker I thought he was. I asked him several questions that he didn't answer. I would have loved to have seen what his thinking was on those questions, but he never got back to me.

Anyway, Dr. Ehrman saying that Jesus is God doesn't make it so. Will YOU answer my question? Can God have a God? (Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 02:23 AM
Rabbe Elalaamin"God of the worlds" means the God of known and unknown worlds,for human,.

You didn't answer my q , Is Lord the God of satan or not?

Well, Egyptian, this thread is really heated up, with name-slinging and destructive ranting. It's hard to maintain any dignified stance here, when someone is trying to knock you over.

Anyway, YHWH, the God of the Bible, whose name got taken out of the Bible, is not a friend of Satan, and Satan has tried to take over YHWH's position, even suggesting to Jesus that he do an act of worship to him. Satan was not always evil; Jehovah created him as a sinless angel, but he acted on his selfish thoughts and became a resister and a slanderer. Jehovah is the Most High over everyone, but Satan does not want to serve Him.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 02:34 AM
I know Koranic Arabic just fine....been studying it for the past two decades.

I have yet to encounter a follower of islam who knows it better than myself.

The best that you can do is post someone else's English rendering...and that's it...

What did Jesus say about people who think they're wise? "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants." (Luke 10:21, NASB)

Further: "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of the world is foolishness before God. For it is written, 'He is the One who catches the wise in their craftiness,' and again, 'The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.'" (I Corinthians 3:18-20, NASB)

You think you're so smart, Apple7? It means nothing.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 02:36 AM
Noah is a man who worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 6.9

These are the generations of Noah. Noah, a righteous man, had been perfected among his family. Noah walked with HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’).

Noah certainly did NOT worship any "triune God"! He worshipped Jehovah and Him only.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 02:39 AM
You are considered Righteous in scripture if you worship The Creator as He has revealed Himself, Triune.

Sorry, but a triune god worshipper is on slippery ground. He will not stand in the day of Jehovah's judgment.

"HaElohim" merely means THE GOD. And the "plurality" of Elohim is not a plurality of PERSONS, but a plurality of MAGNIFICENCE. Don't agree if you are not inclined....your agreement or disagreement is not important.

For someone so wise and intelligent, you don't know much.

egyptianmuslim
March 30th, 2016, 04:22 AM
Of course!

He wrote repeatedly of a Triune God in the OT.






Both worshiped God as Triune.
A man who worshiped triune God is considered as Christian, true or not true ?
Jesus as a part of the three was not born in this time? Who is the third part in time of Noah?
Why God did tell Noah that He will erase mankind from the face of the earth, was there a God's law in this time and they broke it?where in the Bible

Apple7
March 30th, 2016, 07:44 AM
Trinitarianism was never a teaching in Judaism. God says that He alone is God, and that He knows of no others.

It was in the Tanak.

Apple7
March 30th, 2016, 07:50 AM
Uh, no. I just was wrong about him. He apparently has no desire to rock the boat with his contemporaries, unlike the free thinker I thought he was. I asked him several questions that he didn't answer. I would have loved to have seen what his thinking was on those questions, but he never got back to me.

His 'contemporaries'...?

He's not JW.....he's not even Christian....and yet he knows that scripture speaks of Jesus being ABSOLUTELY God.

Deal with it.





Anyway, Dr. Ehrman saying that Jesus is God doesn't make it so.

He is but one of many.

After all, you don't know enough about Greek to refute anyone in the first place.





Will YOU answer my question? Can God have a God? (Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

Of course!

Mat 22.45

Jamie Gigliotti
March 30th, 2016, 10:26 AM
A man who worshiped triune God is considered as Christian, true or not true ?
Jesus as a part of the three was not born in this time? Who is the third part in time of Noah?
Why God did tell Noah that He will erase mankind from the face of the earth, was there a God's law in this time and they broke it?where in the Bible

God is one. Jesus didn't argue with that. The one true God did manifest himself in Christ.

All that Christ is was given to Him by His Father.
"The glory that you have given me, I have given them, that they may be one even as we are one. I in them and you in me..." John 17:22-23
Jesus was speaking to His Father.