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Samie
March 12th, 2016, 03:27 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ben Masada
March 12th, 2016, 03:37 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

That's not what Jesus said. What he said was that salvation comes from listening to "Moses" aka the Law. Read Luke 16:29-31. That's how God's grace comes to us; through the knowledge of the Law and not by a faith without the works of the Law. (James
2:26)

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 03:55 AM
I mean we're told to REPENT and BELIEVE

Not just BELIEVE

:PRepenting and believing are human deeds. How is that being saved by grace?

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 03:59 AM
That's not what Jesus said. What he said was that salvation comes from listening to "Moses" aka the Law. Read Luke 16:29-31. That's how God's grace comes to us; through the knowledge of the Law and not by a faith without the works of the Law. (James
2:26)I don't see in the verses you refer to that salvation comes from listening to Moses.Luke 16:29-31 29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " Where's that part saying salvation comes from listening to Moses?

Totton Linnet
March 12th, 2016, 04:48 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
*
They's 2 different crowds....the Ephesian crowd have passed from judgement to life.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 06:22 AM
*
They's 2 different crowds....the Ephesian crowd have passed from judgement to life.And who is the other crowd? Are you saying the Ephesian crowd won't get rewarded according to their works?

heir
March 12th, 2016, 06:45 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.That's not speaking to the same people. Those of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and even preached to by Peter in the Acts period's salvation was/will be dependent upon them doing something by faith (James 2:18 KJV):

Repent, and believe the gospel (Mark 1:4 KJV) by baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4 KJV, Mark 16:16 KJV, Acts 2:38 KJV), keep the commandments (John 14:15 KJV, Matthew 23:2-3 KJV, John 15:5-10 KJV), endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22 KJV), go through the trial of their faith (1 Peter 1:7 KJV), receiving the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls (1 Peter 1:9 KJV). That salvation is of the grace that "should" come unto them (Acts 15:11 KJV, 1 Peter 1:10 KJV). They look forward that their sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which is at what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord (Acts 3:19-21 KJV).

Those like the Ephesians (Ephesians 2:11-13 KJV) to whom Paul wrote the letter are in the but now, where the righteousness of God without the law by the faith of Jesus Christ is unto all and upon all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). To be saved today (like the Ephesians) is to trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which is where the righteousness of God is revealed (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). Those who have trusted the Lord today having believed the gospel of Christ "are saved" presently (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV,Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV). Our salvation is all about what the Lord did in our place; not by works of righteousness which we have done (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV). We are baptized BY one Spirit into one Body (not by water for the remission of sins 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV).

TulipBee
March 12th, 2016, 07:17 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
What is the reward in saving themselves?

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 01:06 PM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

That's not speaking to the same people. The first verse, Matthew 16:27 speaks of each one of us getting rewarded according to works at the second coming which obviously includes the Eph 2:8-9 group who were saved by grace.

Here's KJV:KJV Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 01:09 PM
What is the reward in saving themselves?Saving themselves from what? From bee sting? Honeycomb, of course!

jamie
March 12th, 2016, 03:09 PM
We are baptized BY one Spirit into one Body (not by water for the remission of sins 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV).



For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

There is no mention here of water. Baptism by the Holy Spirit into water is a given.


There is also an antitype which now saves us, baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 3:21)

Nick M
March 12th, 2016, 06:58 PM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

What do you think of the contradiction?

Nick M
March 12th, 2016, 07:00 PM
That's not what Jesus said.

Sure it is. But it is incomplete. Many Christians don't really like most of the red letters, unless they are "acting" in front of others.

Nick M
March 12th, 2016, 07:01 PM
And who is the other crowd? Are you saying the Ephesian crowd won't get rewarded according to their works?

How do you explain the contradiction you posted and then questioned? I would like your take on it. The answer isn't actually that hard.


If the Ephesians worked, it would be counted as debt.

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:18 PM
I mean we're told to REPENT and BELIEVE

Not just BELIEVE

:P

Wow. It is good to hear someone else say that.

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:19 PM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

The works that Paul was speaking of that do not save are the ceremonial/purification/ regulations.

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:23 PM
That's not what Jesus said. What he said was that salvation comes from listening to "Moses" aka the Law. Read Luke 16:29-31. That's how God's grace comes to us; through the knowledge of the Law and not by a faith without the works of the Law. (James
2:26)

Jesus did not die yet, and when he did, he fulfilled the Law.

Jesus shed his blood for the new law.

You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe our of our Bible and throw out the rest.

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:25 PM
Repenting and believing are human deeds. How is that being saved by grace?

Saved by grace means you only have to have faith that Jesus cleans you of the sins you repent of doing.

It means you did not have to bring an animal to kill.

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:29 PM
I don't see in the verses you refer to that salvation comes from listening to Moses.Luke 16:29-31 29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " Where's that part saying salvation comes from listening to Moses?


Jesus says to listen and do what Moses says, but those that do not understand what fulfilled means do not understand what Jesus means.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 07:32 PM
How do you explain the contradiction you posted and then questioned? I would like your take on it. The answer isn't actually that hard. Were I to post my answer to what you labelled as "contradiction" as presented in the OP, then I would be taking away the fun in the discussion. I reserve my answer for later.

If the Ephesians worked, it would be counted as debt.Since you started your response to the OP, please continue discussing what you said is an answer not actually that hard.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 07:39 PM
Repenting and believing are human deeds. How is that being saved by grace?
Saved by grace means you only have to have faith that Jesus cleans you of the sins you repent of doing.So what came first in the order of occurrence, man's believing and repenting OR the saving act of God?

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 07:50 PM
So what came first in the order of occurrence, man's believing and repenting OR the saving act of God?

No one enters God's grace unless they do what His Son says to do.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

TulipBee
March 12th, 2016, 07:53 PM
Saving themselves from what? From bee sting? Honeycomb, of course!
HELL

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 08:02 PM
Repenting and believing are human deeds. How is that being saved by grace?
Saved by grace means you only have to have faith that Jesus cleans you of the sins you repent of doing.
So what came first in the order of occurrence, man's believing and repenting OR the saving act of God?
No one enters God's grace unless they do what His Son says to do.Entering and doing are human deeds, so how is that being saved by grace?Romans 11:6 KJV And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 08:16 PM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
What is the reward in saving themselves?
Saving themselves from what? From bee sting? Honeycomb, of course!
HELLWell, well. Bee sting is not comparable to HELL. But it pays being bitten by bees in exchange for honeycombs, don't you think?

God's Truth
March 12th, 2016, 08:54 PM
Entering and doing are human deeds, so how is that being saved by grace?Romans 11:6 KJV And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

No one said you do not have to obey anything anymore. Paul was speaking about not having to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, etc.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 09:26 PM
No one said you do not have to obey anything anymore. Paul was speaking about not having to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, etc.So what came first in the order of occurrence of events: Man's obeying OR the saving act of God?

TulipBee
March 12th, 2016, 10:38 PM
Well, well. Bee sting is not comparable to HELL. But it pays being bitten by bees in exchange for honeycombs, don't you think?
I am the bee. I'm the tulipbee that hops from arminian Daisy flower to arminian daisy flower dropping off the tulip pollen. Without the Jesus pollen, the arminians would die thinking they are one of all or the world.

TulipBee
March 12th, 2016, 10:42 PM
No one said you do not have to obey anything anymore. Paul was speaking about not having to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, etc.
Circumcision got converted to infant baptism. Praise God I got sprinkled!

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 11:11 PM
I am the bee. I'm the tulipbee that hops from arminian Daisy flower to arminian daisy flower dropping off the tulip pollen. Without the Jesus pollen, . . . Whaaaat!!!??? Wait. Are you saying tulip pollen = Jesus pollen? If so, then dividing both sides of the equation by "pollen" leaves us with "tulip = Jesus"? But Jesus is not tulip, neither tulip is Jesus, therefore the statement tulip pollen equals Jesus pollen is not true.
. . . the arminians would die thinking they are one of all or the world.Good thing, I am not an Arminian.

TulipBee
March 12th, 2016, 11:16 PM
Whaaaat!!!??? Wait. Are you saying tulip pollen = Jesus pollen? If so, then dividing both sides of the equation by "pollen" leaves us with "tulip = Jesus"? But Jesus is not tulip, neither tulip is Jesus, therefore the statement tulip pollen equals Jesus pollen is not true.Good thing, I am not an Arminian.
Tulip is the gospel. I also pollenate semi pelagians with God's word which comes from the Bible. I'm just a worker of the hive.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 12:06 AM
So what came first in the order of occurrence of events: Man's obeying OR the saving act of God?

You are having such a hard time with this. Jesus died for us, but no one enters God's grace without living faith that is faith with obedience.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 12:12 AM
Circumcision got converted to infant baptism. Praise God I got sprinkled!

You do not get sprinkled without first obeying.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 01:58 AM
You are having such a hard time with this. Jesus died for us, but no one enters God's grace without living faith that is faith with obedience.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.And I thought you're the one having a hard time directly responding to my question you purposely evade answering directly:

Again, What came first in the order of occurrence of events?:

1. Man's obeying

OR,

2. the saving act of God?

There I made it simpler for you. You can choose #1 or #2 for an answer. I'll wait.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 02:10 AM
And I thought you're the one having a hard time directly responding to my question you purposely evade answering directly:

Again, What came first in the order of occurrence of events?:

1. Man's obeying

OR,

2. the saving act of God?

There I made it simpler for you. You can choose #1 or #2 for an answer. I'll wait.

God's word isn't about tricking people to get them to say what you want so you can feel as if you proved a point.

You. will. not. enter. God's. grace. if. you. do. not. first. obey. and. believe.

You will not get around that, not matter how hard you try.

Believe Romans 5:2.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 02:58 AM
God's word isn't about tricking people to get them to say what you want so you can feel as if you proved a point.

You. will. not. enter. God's. grace. if. you. do. not. first. obey. and. believe.

You will not get around that, not matter how hard you try.

Believe Romans 5:2.Thanks, GT. I won't press the issue further. At least I know you are not yet sure of where you stand, and pressing the issue would put you into a more confused state.

When you are sure of where you stand and have finally decided which came first between man's obeying and God's saving act, you can tell me, and we can discuss again.

For the time being, you can ask me whatever you like relative to the issue in this thread, and I would not respond the way you responded. Try it, brother. I'll wait.

For starters, I believe God's saving act came first before man's obeying. Any objection from you? If none, then you can keep silent; but if there is, then post it. I will gladly respond.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 03:09 AM
Thanks, GT. I won't press the issue further. At least I know you are not yet sure of where you stand, and pressing the issue would put you into a more confused state.

When you are sure of where you stand and have finally decided which came first between man's obeying and God's saving act, you can tell me, and we can discuss again.

For the time being, you can ask me whatever you like relative to the issue in this thread, and I would not respond the way you responded. Try it, brother. I'll wait.

For starters, I believe God's saving act came first before man's obeying. Any objection from you? If none, then you can keep silent; but if there is, then post it. I will gladly respond.

You are falsely judging me.

Jesus died before you were born---but you were not saved before you were born. You had to do something to enter that grace of Jesus' death. You had to do more than just being born.

Do you understand now?

journey
March 13th, 2016, 03:48 AM
The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the Jews, and it was under the law. More was required than just faith - works of the law.

Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and died for our sins for big reasons. Jesus Christ himself revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God to the Apostle Paul, and it included what changed after the Cross.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I love the old hymn - Jesus Paid it All - all to Him I owe. We are now saved by faith through God's matchless Grace - Grace that we can't earn and will never deserve. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's a simple, childlike faith in the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not on the installment payment plan, nor is it by works that we can do. Jesus Christ did Pay it All at the Cross, and we have nothing worthy to add to His perfect and completed work at the Cross.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We accept God's unspeakable Gift through simple faith plus nothing. God's Word tells us there are many things we SHOULD do after we are Saved, but we must know those things are not required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. There are additional rewards for good works if they are done for the right reasons (i.e. love for Jesus Christ out of a heart of appreciation). I give thanks that Salvation is simple enough for a child to understand.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 04:01 AM
The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the Jews, and it was under the law.
You are already wrong. Jesus came with GRACE and TRUTH.

See John 1:17.




More was required than just faith - works of the law.

Faith was expected but NOT REQUIRED to obey the old law, it was not based on faith.

See Galatians 3:12.

It did NOT take faith to get circumcised. It did not take faith to do the other purification/ceremonial regulations.




Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and died for our sins for big reasons. Jesus Christ himself revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God to the Apostle Paul, and it included what changed after the Cross.
The only things that changed at the cross is that it was finished. That is about Jesus fulfilling the Law and the Prophets. It is about Jesus shedding his blood for the NEW Covenant. It is about NOW ALL could come to Jesus to be saved.

See John 12:32; and Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

That is about Jesus washing us instead of the way it USED TO be. The people used to have to wash themselves. What don't you get about that?! The ceremonial/purification WORKS went on for over 1,600 years. Don't you understand that? Paul was a pharisee and reinforced those purification/ceremonial regulations! But now, through faith in Jesus' blood cleaning us---those WORKS no longer matter.

TulipBee
March 13th, 2016, 05:37 AM
You do not get sprinkled without first obeying.
Believe and be baptised is a shout, a command, a will, an order that make elects willing. What He shouts will happen. Even the winds obey him. I must believe cause he made me willing by a command. He didn't ask me. He told me. He made me follow his command. No free will included. By nature and being a sinner, I'm not able to obey on my own. It would be impossible. It's possible for you under Satan but please note that Satan lying to you in case you didn't know. You're a liar anyway and try to fool the elects with your slick decieving words

TulipBee
March 13th, 2016, 05:53 AM
God's word isn't about tricking people to get them to say what you want so you can feel as if you proved a point.

You. will. not. enter. God's. grace. if. you. do. not. first. obey. and. believe.

You will not get around that, not matter how hard you try.

Believe Romans 5:2.
You cannot obey on your own no matter how hard you try. We noticed you tried too hard to the point of deceiving yourself became a liar in God's Truth. You deceive with your avatar.
It is the avator, (g)od's truth who is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

TulipBee
March 13th, 2016, 05:55 AM
You are falsely judging me.

Jesus died before you were born---but you were not saved before you were born. You had to do something to enter that grace of Jesus' death. You had to do more than just being born.

Do you understand now?
Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works
When are you going to shut up ???????

Totton Linnet
March 13th, 2016, 07:43 AM
Well what does Paul say? do you believe Paul? "it's not by works of righteousness which we have done but by His grace alone" so we see the righteous sheep receiving an inheritance because of works which they have done, so we MUST conclude that these sheep are not the church.

Who are they?

Now I know what the MADianites will say and I respect that [at least they SEE that the sheep cannot be the church] they will say they are the Jews, I must disagree although it is not wholly wrong.

I disagree because this judgement is the Great White Throne judgement of Revelations, the last judgement and the Jews have already been reigning with Christ for a thousand years. They like the church are passed over from judgement as to eternal destiny.

I believe in a BILLIONfold wider mercy than is commonly taught by evangelicals, I do not believe that BILLIONS and billions of human souls will perish in hell...though some will.

There is a new earth to be inherited, God is going to create a new heavens and new earth.

The church will inherit heaven, the meek will inherit the earth. The Jews will reign the earth with Christ, the church will reign in heaven with Christ.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 13th, 2016, 07:59 AM
The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the Jews, and it was under the law. More was required than just faith - works of the law.

Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and died for our sins for big reasons. Jesus Christ himself revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God to the Apostle Paul, and it included what changed after the Cross.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I love the old hymn - Jesus Paid it All - all to Him I owe. We are now saved by faith through God's matchless Grace - Grace that we can't earn and will never deserve. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's a simple, childlike faith in the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not on the installment payment plan, nor is it by works that we can do. Jesus Christ did Pay it All at the Cross, and we have nothing worthy to add to His perfect and completed work at the Cross.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We accept God's unspeakable Gift through simple faith plus nothing. God's Word tells us there are many things we SHOULD do after we are Saved, but we must know those things are not required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. There are additional rewards for good works if they are done for the right reasons (i.e. love for Jesus Christ out of a heart of appreciation). I give thanks that Salvation is simple enough for a child to understand.

Amen. Great post.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 09:53 AM
You are falsely judging me.I am simply posting my observation, brother.


Jesus died before you were born---but you were not saved before you were born.Scripturally incoherent. Jesus already saved us all on the cross. And that includes you. Did Christ accomplish His mission of coming to earth? I hear you answering Yes, because a No answer is wrong (John 17:4). And what was Christ's mission of coming to earth? Here's His mission, from Christ's own lips:John 3:17 NASB "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.And from apostle Paul:1 Timothy 1:15 KJV This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.I know you believe the above Scriptures, don't you?

You had to do something to enter that grace of Jesus' death. You had to do more than just being born.

Do you understand now?Yes, I now understand you are propagating a works-based salvation, but which you are not courageous enough to acknowledge as shown in the way you responded to my earlier posts. We are not given the spirit of fear, are we? So why be afraid of showing your real color?

Admit it, brother. And if you realize you're wrong then discard the wrong and adopt what you believe is right.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 10:39 AM
. . .

We accept God's unspeakable Gift through simple faith plus nothing. God's Word tells us there are many things we SHOULD do after we are Saved, but we must know those things are not required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. There are additional rewards for good works if they are done for the right reasons (i.e. love for Jesus Christ out of a heart of appreciation). I give thanks that Salvation is simple enough for a child to understand.Wow... Yes, simple enough for a child to understand, NEVERTHELESS unbiblical as exposed by the very first statement I highlighted in red above.

Unless man ACCEPTS the gift, the gift of salvation is not his, and therefore he is not saved. What a subtle play on words that hides the real soteriological color of the whole post: works-based salvation.

A man is saved when he is in Christ, part of His Body. IF a man is NOT in Christ, he is spiritually dead, because Christ is our life (Col 3:4), and Christ Himself said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Why NOTHING? Because the dead can do NOTHING!

IF a man prior to his ACCEPTING the gift of salvation is not in Christ, then he cannot accept the gift because he can do NOTHING as Christ Himself said. But the fact that people are capable of ACCEPTING the gift of salvation is glaring proof that tells us people can do SOMETHING and therefore already in Christ PRIOR to their acceptance of the gift.

The Arminian insistence that people are saved only AFTER they ACCEPT the gift of salvation is preaching a gospel OPPOSITE to what Christ Himself said. While Christ was saying apart from Him man can do NOTHING, Arminians insist that apart from Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can ACCEPT the gift - to be in Christ.

That being said, don't accuse me of being a Calvinist, because I am NOT.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Believe and be baptised is a shout, a command, a will, an order that make elects willing.

No such teaching in the Bible.



What He shouts will happen. Even the winds obey him. I must believe cause he made me willing by a command. He didn't ask me. He told me. He made me follow his command. No free will included. By nature and being a sinner,

Then according to you, God's command is not strong enough to make all obey, just some.

I can easily prove you wrong about God giving a command to make the elect obey---the elected are the chosen BY THEIR OBEDIENCE.

That is whom God elects/chooses.

The gospel is given to THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY DOING GOOD.

See Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.


Did you read that? The command to repent and be baptized was not even given yet.

The command WAS SENT TO THEM. In case you sill do not get it, I will tell you even plainer than that...

The command, the Gospel, IT was sent to those who were already doing good.

The Bible says those WHO live their lives wanting to do right, they COME INTO JESUS the LIGHT, to acknowledge God.

John 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.




I'm not able to obey on my own. It would be impossible. It's possible for you under Satan but please note that Satan lying to you in case you didn't know. You're a liar anyway and try to fool the elects with your slick decieving words

Telling people to obey God is NOT from Satan. You are ensnared to say such a thing.

Here is something else that proves you believe nonsense---if life were as you say, about God making us believe---then why would God EVER have NEED to HARDEN anyone?!

You would have to admit your whole denomination is not of God. Are you willing to give it all up for God's Truth?


Exodus 9:12 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.


That one scripture take down your whole false beliefs.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 11:40 AM
You cannot obey on your own no matter how hard you try. We noticed you tried too hard to the point of deceiving yourself became a liar in God's Truth. You deceive with your avatar.
It is the avator, (g)od's truth who is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

You prove you have no understanding.

It is to those who do GOOD BEFORE even hearing the gospel.

See Acts 13:26; Acts 10:35; and John 3:21.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 11:44 AM
Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works Works, works, works
When are you going to shut up ???????

When are YOU going to?

You cannot ever turn doing right into something bad.

I preach obedience to God before one is saved to be saved, and that drives you further into insanity.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 11:54 AM
I am simply posting my observation, brother.

Scripturally incoherent. Jesus already saved us all on the cross. And that includes you. Did Christ accomplish His mission of coming to earth? I hear you answering Yes, because a No answer is wrong (John 17:4). And what was Christ's mission of coming to earth? Here's His mission, from Christ's own lips:John 3:17 NASB "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.And from apostle Paul:1 Timothy 1:15 KJV This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.I know you believe the above Scriptures, don't you?
Yes, I now understand you are propagating a works-based salvation, but which you are not courageous enough to acknowledge as shown in the way you responded to my earlier posts. We are not given the spirit of fear, are we? So why be afraid of showing your real color?

Admit it, brother. And if you realize you're wrong then discard the wrong and adopt what you believe is right.

There is just one scripture that sends your whole belief where it belongs, and that is Romans 5:2.

You do not have access to what Jesus did many years ago until you come up with living faith, which is faith with obedience.

You do not have the full picture because of many things...sin, false prophets, and false teachers.

The false prophets will be thrown in the lake of fire for a reason.

There is a remedy to your quagmire.

The remedy is God's Word, God's Word who says to humble yourself.

Humble yourself, admit you are wrong, it is about obeying Jesus.

Believe what is written.

journey
March 13th, 2016, 03:51 PM
Wow... Yes, simple enough for a child to understand, NEVERTHELESS unbiblical as exposed by the very first statement I highlighted in red above.

Unless man ACCEPTS the gift, the gift of salvation is not his, and therefore he is not saved. What a subtle play on words that hides the real soteriological color of the whole post: works-based salvation.

A man is saved when he is in Christ, part of His Body. IF a man is NOT in Christ, he is spiritually dead, because Christ is our life (Col 3:4), and Christ Himself said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Why NOTHING? Because the dead can do NOTHING!

IF a man prior to his ACCEPTING the gift of salvation is not in Christ, then he cannot accept the gift because he can do NOTHING as Christ Himself said. But the fact that people are capable of ACCEPTING the gift of salvation is glaring proof that tells us people can do SOMETHING and therefore already in Christ PRIOR to their acceptance of the gift.

The Arminian insistence that people are saved only AFTER they ACCEPT the gift of salvation is preaching a gospel OPPOSITE to what Christ Himself said. While Christ was saying apart from Him man can do NOTHING, Arminians insist that apart from Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can ACCEPT the gift - to be in Christ.

That being said, don't accuse me of being a Calvinist, because I am NOT.


You appear to be terribly confused. You can't be in Christ or a member of the Body of Christ without first being Saved. So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

TulipBee
March 13th, 2016, 06:55 PM
When are YOU going to?

You cannot ever turn doing right into something bad.

I preach obedience to God before one is saved to be saved, and that drives you further into insanity.
I worked after regeneration.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 07:26 PM
You appear to be terribly confused. You can't be in Christ or a member of the Body of Christ without first being Saved. So, we'll have to agree to disagree.To be in Christ is to be saved. Simple. And while not in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4), one is dead. But you teach that while NOT in Christ and hence dead, people can ACCEPT the gift. You are teaching against what Christ Himself said.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 08:27 PM
Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING."

journey teaches: while not in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can ACCEPT the gift of salvation so he can be in Christ.

If journeys' position is correct, then Jesus' statement is wrong. But since Jesus could not possibly be wrong, then it's journey's position that is wrong.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 08:54 PM
I worked after regeneration.

There is no such thing in the Word of God.

Regeneration happens when one is given the Holy Spirit after they repent.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 08:57 PM
To be in Christ is to be saved. Simple. And while not in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4), one is dead. But you teach that while NOT in Christ and hence dead, people can ACCEPT the gift. You are teaching against what Christ Himself said.

You have to do what Jesus says to get saved. The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey. You can't get around that; why are you tying to get around that?

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING."

journey teaches: while not in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can ACCEPT the gift of salvation so he can be in Christ.

If journeys' position is correct, then Jesus' statement is wrong. But since Jesus could not possibly be wrong, then it's journey's position that is wrong.

You are the one that is wrong. You even had this explained to you before and you still do not get it.

If you here the gospel from someone else, or by reading it yourself, and you do what Jesus says, how do you get that is wrong and apart from Jesus.

THERE is NO scripture ANYWHERE in the Bible that says what you teach, and that is that we are saved first without our wanting and knowing.

Samie
March 13th, 2016, 09:27 PM
You are the one that is wrong. You even had this explained to you before and you still do not get it.

If you here the gospel from someone else, or by reading it yourself, and you do what Jesus says, how do you get that is wrong and apart from Jesus.

THERE is NO scripture ANYWHERE in the Bible that says what you teach, and that is that we are saved first without our wanting and knowing.Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING." John 15:5 NASB

GT teaches: while not in Christ, man can do SOMETHING so he can be in Christ - he can ACCEPT the gift of salvation.

If GT's position is correct, then Jesus' statement is wrong. But since Jesus could not possibly be wrong, then it's GT's position that is wrong.

But GT plays blind. He pretends not to see he is wrong.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 09:32 PM
Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING." John 15:5 NASB

GT teaches: while not in Christ, man can do SOMETHING so he can be in Christ - he can ACCEPT the gift of salvation.

If GT's position is correct, then Jesus' statement is wrong. But since Jesus could not possibly be wrong, then it's GT's position that is wrong.

But GT plays blind. He pretends not to see he is wrong.

Jesus is the Way. You will not be put in Jesus if you do not do what he says to get in him.

journey
March 13th, 2016, 10:54 PM
To be in Christ is to be saved. Simple. And while not in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4), one is dead. But you teach that while NOT in Christ and hence dead, people can ACCEPT the gift. You are teaching against what Christ Himself said.

I have no idea where you're getting your messed up thoughts. Lost people are NOT in Christ. However, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, so lost people do get Saved every day. It sounds like you're speaking conflicting statements - one out of each side of your mouth. You can't have it both ways at the same time. Obviously, lost people can accept God's free Gift of Salvation. Saying that someone is IN CHRIST means that they are ALREADY SAVED. You have the last word.

journey
March 13th, 2016, 11:04 PM
Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING."

journey teaches: while not in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can ACCEPT the gift of salvation so he can be in Christ.

If journeys' position is correct, then Jesus' statement is wrong. But since Jesus could not possibly be wrong, then it's journey's position that is wrong.

You've taken a portion of Scripture out of context and formed a false doctrine for yourself. I'm sorry that you're so confused. I suggest that you go back to the beginning. Regardless, I'm through with your confusion. You are basically saying that you have to be saved first before you can be saved. Sounds silly - doesn't it? Like I said in my last post, you have the last word.

TulipBee
March 14th, 2016, 07:58 AM
There is no such thing in the Word of God.

Regeneration happens when one is given the Holy Spirit after they repent.
Then you're unregenerate

TulipBee
March 14th, 2016, 08:01 AM
I have no idea where you're getting your messed up thoughts. Lost people are NOT in Christ. However, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, so lost people do get Saved every day. It sounds like you're speaking conflicting statements - one out of each side of your mouth. You can't have it both ways at the same time. Obviously, lost people can accept God's free Gift of Salvation. Saying that someone is IN CHRIST means that they are ALREADY SAVED. You have the last word.
Lots of boasters here !
Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven. - Charles Spurgeon

Samie
March 14th, 2016, 08:53 AM
You've taken a portion of Scripture out of context and formed a false doctrine for yourself. I'm sorry that you're so confused. I suggest that you go back to the beginning. Regardless, I'm through with your confusion. You are basically saying that you have to be saved first before you can be saved. Sounds silly - doesn't it? Like I said in my last post, you have the last word.You say taken out of context because your words are against the words of Jesus Himself.

Jesus: apart from Me, man can do NOTHING. John 15:5 NASB

journey: apart from Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can accept the gift of salvation - to be in Christ.

God's Truth
March 14th, 2016, 08:55 AM
Then you're unregenerate

I did exactly as Jesus said when I wanted to be saved, and then he saved me.

He is the Way, and his words are truth and life.

God's Truth
March 14th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Lots of boasters here !
Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven. - Charles Spurgeon

If that is true, tell me why God had to harden pharaoh?

God's Truth
March 14th, 2016, 09:00 AM
Lots of boasters here !
Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven. - Charles Spurgeon

If that is true, tell me why God had to harden many of the Jews.

TulipBee
March 14th, 2016, 10:52 AM
I did exactly as Jesus said when I wanted to be saved, and then he saved me.

He is the Way, and his words are truth and life.
You don believe in Jesus. You can babble all you want but your baby babbling isn't going to earn you a ticket to heaven. Your theology isn't lined with God's truths. You bare a false name and insult our God. Your next bus is the express bus to hell.

TulipBee
March 14th, 2016, 10:54 AM
If that is true, tell me why God had to harden many of the Jews.
Typical man made qustions to shame God. Won't play with you. You're on your own. Take a seat for the wild ride. Hold on tight !

heir
March 14th, 2016, 01:59 PM
The first verse, Matthew 16:27 speaks of each one of us getting rewarded according to works at the second coming which obviously includes the Eph 2:8-9 group who were saved by grace.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is not talking TO any of us. The Lord wasn't sent then to us, but Israel (Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV).

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:03 PM
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

There is no mention here of water. Baptism by the Holy Spirit into water is a given.


There is also an antitype which now saves us, baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 3:21)
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


When one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) they are baptized by one Spirit in to one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13).


It is a baptism (identification) into Christ's death,


Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


It's a Spirit baptism into Christ,


Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


It is the one baptism of Ephesians 4 that we are to endevour to keep.


Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


It has NOTHING to do with water! The Spirit is the baptizer!

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:05 PM
I mean we're told to REPENT and BELIEVE

Not just BELIEVE

:Pnope.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:06 PM
The works that Paul was speaking of that do not save are the ceremonial/purification/ regulations.
No, it's all the works of the law

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Why do you keep lying about this?

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:12 PM
Saved by grace means you only have to have faith that Jesus cleans you of the sins you repent of doing.

It means you did not have to bring an animal to kill.Again, with your lies.

The truth:

Christ died on the cross for all of our sins after being made sin for us and was raised again for our justification whether or not a person believes it!

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

...

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
...

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:13 PM
Jesus says to listen and do what Moses says, but those that do not understand what fulfilled means do not understand what Jesus means.He never said that TO any of us.

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:14 PM
No one enters God's grace unless they do what His Son says to do.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.Liar. We all have access by the faith OF Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 14th, 2016, 02:15 PM
He never said that TO any of us.

You're correct.

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:19 PM
Tulip is the gospel.When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)? If there's never been a moment, you are just a religious, but lost drone (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

Grosnick Marowbe
March 14th, 2016, 02:19 PM
I have no idea where you're getting your messed up thoughts. Lost people are NOT in Christ. However, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, so lost people do get Saved every day. It sounds like you're speaking conflicting statements - one out of each side of your mouth. You can't have it both ways at the same time. Obviously, lost people can accept God's free Gift of Salvation. Saying that someone is IN CHRIST means that they are ALREADY SAVED. You have the last word.

Old Sam is a wee bit confused. I think he's a wanna be Calvinist? I have him and AMR on ignore at this point. I'm a happier man for it.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 14th, 2016, 02:20 PM
When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)? If there's never been a moment, you are just a religious, but lost drone (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

TB thinks he's one of the so-called, "Elects."

heir
March 14th, 2016, 02:25 PM
TB thinks he's one of the so-called, "Elects."

I know. The question I posed to him (more than a few times now) should bring him to the realization that he is not saved because he believes he was saved before ever hearing and believing the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that Paul writes is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV). The gospel of Christ is the power of God, not TULIP.

Samie
March 14th, 2016, 05:01 PM
You've taken a portion of Scripture out of context and formed a false doctrine for yourself. I'm sorry that you're so confused. I suggest that you go back to the beginning. Regardless, I'm through with your confusion. You are basically saying that you have to be saved first before you can be saved. Sounds silly - doesn't it? Like I said in my last post, you have the last word.Jesus: apart from Me, man can do NOTHING. John 15:5 NASB

journey: apart from Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can accept the gift of salvation - to be in Christ.

journey seems to be still confused he can't address the above. Somebody could be of help. Here's that somebody (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116953-Rewarded-According-To-Works-Yet-Saved-by-Grace&p=4649522&viewfull=1#post4649522)as confused as journey.

TulipBee
March 14th, 2016, 05:47 PM
When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)? If there's never been a moment, you are just a religious, but lost drone (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)
Not the denominational fad agian.
I trust the Lord now.
No ! You're not allowed to see my heaven passport !

journey
March 15th, 2016, 12:00 AM
Some people don't have a clue what John 15:5 means, especially after they've taken just a few words out of context.

John 15:4-6 KJV Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hint: the purpose of a branch is to bear fruit, but it can't if it's detached from the vine. That vine is Jesus Christ in His example, and we are the branches. Jesus gave this as a simple illustration.

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:26 AM
You don believe in Jesus. You can babble all you want but your baby babbling isn't going to earn you a ticket to heaven. Your theology isn't lined with God's truths. You bare a false name and insult our God. Your next bus is the express bus to hell.

Are you a real tulip bee?

You speak hateful nonsense.

GOD SAYS we know Him if we obey Him. I tell you I obey Him and you say I do not know Him. You speak against God's Word.

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:29 AM
Typical man made qustions to shame God. Won't play with you. You're on your own. Take a seat for the wild ride. Hold on tight !

Hahahaha Tell me, how is it shaming God to speak of what He did?

You say we cannot believe and obey until God saves us; if that is true, why did God have to harden Pharaoh?

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:30 AM
No, it's all the works of the law

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Why do you keep lying about this?

That is about the ceremonial/purification works/law.

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:33 AM
Again, with your lies.

The truth:

Christ died on the cross for all of our sins after being made sin for us and was raised again for our justification whether or not a person believes it!

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

...

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
...

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

People are purified and do not even have to believe it?!

I can hardly believe you can say such a thing.

Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a person is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:36 AM
He never said that TO any of us.

There is no more Moses' seat and pharisees. How would you get anyone can obey that anymore?

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:44 AM
He never said that TO any of us.

What did Paul say to heir, specifically? lol

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 12:46 AM
Liar. We all have access by the faith OF Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

By faith of him is by faith in him.

Faith in Jesus about what?

Faith in Jesus that he cleans of the sins we repent.

Samie
March 15th, 2016, 04:38 AM
Some people don't have a clue what John 15:5 means, especially after they've taken just a few words out of context.

John 15:4-6 KJV Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hint: the purpose of a branch is to bear fruit, but it can't if it's detached from the vine. That vine is Jesus Christ in His example, and we are the branches. Jesus gave this as a simple illustration.Simple, yes, but why is it you seem so confused in understanding it?

Believing is exercising faith. Faith is fruit of the Spirit. Apart from Christ Who is the Vine, man - the branch - cannot bear any fruit, and therefore, can't have faith. So how can he believe without faith?

TulipBee
March 15th, 2016, 06:58 AM
Are you a real tulip bee?

You speak hateful nonsense.

GOD SAYS we know Him if we obey Him. I tell you I obey Him and you say I do not know Him. You speak against God's Word.
The real gospel in 1 John 2:29 we read, "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him." This means the person who obeys God and does righteousness has been born of God. His obedience proves that he has received a new will because he experienced the great miracle of God called regeneration. Thus, we can make a second proposition: Regeneration precedes obedience.

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 09:57 AM
The real gospel in 1 John 2:29 we read, "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him." This means the person who obeys God and does righteousness has been born of God. His obedience proves that he has received a new will because he experienced the great miracle of God called regeneration. Thus, we can make a second proposition: Regeneration precedes obedience.

You were speaking right until you ended it with an off the wall falseness.

TulipBee
March 15th, 2016, 01:28 PM
You were speaking right until you ended it with an off the wall falseness.
Jesus still saves !

God's Truth
March 15th, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jesus still saves !

All you have are off the wall falseness.

journey
March 15th, 2016, 03:34 PM
Simple, yes, but why is it you seem so confused in understanding it?

Believing is exercising faith. Faith is fruit of the Spirit. Apart from Christ Who is the Vine, man - the branch - cannot bear any fruit, and therefore, can't have faith. So how can he believe without faith?

You're trying to pervert the Gospel of the Grace of God with your private, false interpretations. So, you are now on my ignore list. You're actually trying to teach that you have to be saved first before you can be saved. You shouldn't be trying to teach at all until you understand the basics.

Samie
March 15th, 2016, 04:26 PM
You're trying to pervert the Gospel of the Grace of God with your private, false interpretations.Is believing Christ's words perversion of the gospel?


So, you are now on my ignore list.Thank you for the honor.


You're actually trying to teach that you have to be saved first before you can be saved.Are you aware that the Bible tells us that salvation has 3 tenses? Past, present ,future. We have been saved, are being saved and will be saved.


You shouldn't be trying to teach at all until you understand the basics.Then why don't you apply that to yourself? You aren't even aware of the 3 tenses of Salvation.

And since am now on your ignore list, please ponder on the ff:

Jesus told His disciples that apart from Him, they can do NOTHING. Are you better off than His disciples you can do SOMETHING apart from Him?

TulipBee
March 15th, 2016, 05:37 PM
All you have are off the wall falseness.
You're your own boss !

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 12:37 AM
You're your own boss !

Jesus is my Everything.

iamaberean
March 16th, 2016, 02:21 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Using hermeneutics is how your question is answered.
1. Jesus is speaking to the Jews, they are the ones who were living under the law and they were judged by the law when Jesus came in 70 AD, just as he said he would.
2. Ephesians was written to the church. Our sins have been forgiven.

Nihilo
March 16th, 2016, 03:22 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.Eternity's a long time. A googolplex is 10^(100^100) or (10^100)^100---I can't remember which, if either, and I also don't know if what I wrote there aren't equal numbers. :dizzy: Anyway, a googolplex is the biggest number I know of off hand. It will remain so until I can figure out the Latin for 33, which is needed in order to supersede a googolplex as the largest offhand number that I know. It's much much bigger than Avogadro's number, 6x10^23, the number of atoms in a . . . I believe gram-mole, but possible kilogram-mole---but I really think gram-mole or gmol or just mol (unqualified mol means "gram-mole," I believe). It's an enormous number. The Global sovereign debt is in the neighborhood of 100 trillion dollars on a PPP basis, and that's a scary-big number. Fortunately, the global economy can finance this debtload. That's 100x10^12 or 10^13, which is not almost half of 10^23, which would be 0.5x10^23 or 5x10^22, but 10 orders of magnitude less. This is the equivalent of a 0.1 part per billion concentration. Even lead is safe at this level in drinking water. 0.1 ppb, or 0.0001 ppm.

That's how small the global sovereign debt is, in PPP denominated in US Dollars ( $ ), compared to Avagardo's number, which is an even smaller number in relation to a googolplex. And a googolplex isn't even that big compared to eternity. Eternal life is going to be so long that there's literally going to be nobody that you're not going to meet, in the eternal kingdom of God the new heaven and the new earth. You will relive your moral offenses, with your victims, and all of them. You're gonna've, "Got the time."

(Tommy Boy. The great and tragically late, Chris Farley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Farley); died at 33, like Jesus did. (He was trying to sell the guy who "thought we were watching cartoons.") You're welcome if you get it. :D)

The scariest thing for me is that we're looking down the barrel of a gun, not just as Americans but as currently alive humans, wherever we live, of a race for United States President between two members of the dreaded quote-unquote one percenters. Trump and Clinton are only separated by two orders of magnitude in net worth. I personally am separated from Mr. Trump by five ( 5 ) orders of magnitude unless I've miscalculated, but Senator Clinton only trails him by two ( 2 ). She's partying in the same nightclubs as Trump is, is what I'm saying, while my own personal vehicle would be a scene in an 80s comedy, regarding how my vehicle would be treated by A-list valets. Neither of these people know what it's like to feel the anxiety when we realize we've forgotten to pay a utility bill. Neither of them. We wanted Bernie, we wanted Rubio, these people, we know, and we know, that they know, what that's like.

But given all that, I'd rather have Clinton. Because it'd be an interesting chapter in the very distant future's history books on American history. Literally, that's all, and that doesn't mean I'm a Democrat, it means I'm a republican, small R, meaning, that I believe in our republic. It's pretty awesome.

TulipBee
March 16th, 2016, 05:57 AM
Jesus is my Everything.
Theres a chance He doesn't know you cause you deny God's truths

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 07:15 AM
Using hermeneutics is how your question is answered.
1. Jesus is speaking to the Jews, they are the ones who were living under the law and they were judged by the law when Jesus came in 70 AD, just as he said he would.
2. Ephesians was written to the church. Our sins have been forgiven.

From the beginning of the Bible, to the end of the Bible; from the beginning of creation, to the end...it was, is, and always will be about obeying anything and everything GOD SAYS.

From the time of the angels in heaven getting cast down with Satan, to Adam and Eve merely having to obey "Do not eat from this tree", to our time, the end times, the last instructions that are to believe and obey Jesus...It is about obeying God.

Samie
March 16th, 2016, 02:48 PM
Using hermeneutics is how your question is answered.
1. Jesus is speaking to the Jews, they are the ones who were living under the law and they were judged by the law when Jesus came in 70 AD, just as he said he would.
2. Ephesians was written to the church. Our sins have been forgiven.Thanks for the answer. But do you think your answer sufficiently addressed the OP? Consider:

When He comes again, Jesus will reward each one according to His works (Matt 16:27 KJV; Rev 22:12 NASB). And that includes every one born into this world, including those you enumerated in #1 and #2 above. So whether living under the law or those of the Ephesian kind, all will be rewarded according to works.

And that takes us back to the OP.

iamaberean
March 25th, 2016, 03:17 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?NJK Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

NKJ Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

First:
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Notice: The dead were judged according to their works. Jews are the ones who were judged by their works. The books that were opened:
1. The Old Testament of Laws
2. Each one of the Jews life
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Second:
Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.[/BOX][/QUOTE]
Written to Christians, who are not judged but have been saved by grace thru our faith while living.

Samie
March 27th, 2016, 01:54 PM
Written to Christians, who are not judged but have been saved by grace thru our faith while living.NAS Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Not just WRITTEN to Christians, I suppose. It'S for EVERY MAN.

Totton Linnet
March 27th, 2016, 02:34 PM
First:
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Notice: The dead were judged according to their works. Jews are the ones who were judged by their works. The books that were opened:
1. The Old Testament of Laws
2. Each one of the Jews life
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Second:
Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.[/BOX]
Written to Christians, who are not judged but have been saved by grace thru our faith while living.[/QUOTE]

Quite so, the judgement spoken of happens AFTER the church is raptured [so shall we ever be with the Lord] and AFTER the 1,000 years reign in which they have reigned with Christ.

So who ever is to be rewarded it is not the church. Believe in the wider mercy.

Samie
March 27th, 2016, 03:22 PM
The rapture you speak is the 2nd Coming where EVERY MAN gets rewarded according to what he has done. Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12.

iamaberean
March 28th, 2016, 10:40 AM
The rapture you speak is the 2nd Coming where EVERY MAN gets rewarded according to what he has done. Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12.

Whenever one reads a scripture that has the word 'works' in it, it refers to those that were or had lived in the age of law. We live in the age of Grace, not Law.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

chrysostom
March 28th, 2016, 10:46 AM
Whenever one reads a scripture that has the word 'works' in it, it refers to those that were or had lived in the age of law. We live in the age of Grace, not Law.

so when is someone going to publish a relevant bible?

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 02:26 AM
Whenever one reads a scripture that has the word 'works' in it, it refers to those that were or had lived in the age of law. We live in the age of Grace, not Law.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation was written AFTER Jesus resurrected and hence addressed to those living after the cross, in what you call the "age of Grace".

iamaberean
March 29th, 2016, 07:28 AM
so when is someone going to publish a relevant bible?
Are you living in the age of Grace, or not?

iamaberean
March 29th, 2016, 07:33 AM
Revelation was written AFTER Jesus resurrected and hence addressed to those living after the cross, in what you call the "age of Grace".

That is true Samie, but Jesus told his disciples that the end of the age would come with the destruction of the temple, in their generation. It happened in 70 AD, a little less than 40 years after Jesus was crucified.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 29th, 2016, 08:21 AM
That's not speaking to the same people. Those of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and even preached to by Peter in the Acts period's salvation was/will be dependent upon them doing something by faith (James 2:18 KJV):

Repent, and believe the gospel (Mark 1:4 KJV) by baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4 KJV, Mark 16:16 KJV, Acts 2:38 KJV), keep the commandments (John 14:15 KJV, Matthew 23:2-3 KJV, John 15:5-10 KJV), endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22 KJV), go through the trial of their faith (1 Peter 1:7 KJV), receiving the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls (1 Peter 1:9 KJV). That salvation is of the grace that "should" come unto them (Acts 15:11 KJV, 1 Peter 1:10 KJV). They look forward that their sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which is at what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord (Acts 3:19-21 KJV).

Those like the Ephesians (Ephesians 2:11-13 KJV) to whom Paul wrote the letter are in the but now, where the righteousness of God without the law by the faith of Jesus Christ is unto all and upon all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). To be saved today (like the Ephesians) is to trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which is where the righteousness of God is revealed (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). Those who have trusted the Lord today having believed the gospel of Christ "are saved" presently (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV,Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV). Our salvation is all about what the Lord did in our place; not by works of righteousness which we have done (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV). We are baptized BY one Spirit into one Body (not by water for the remission of sins 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV).

EXCELLENT Post.

Samie
March 29th, 2016, 02:10 PM
That is true Samie, but Jesus told his disciples that the end of the age would come with the destruction of the temple, in their generation. It happened in 70 AD, a little less than 40 years after Jesus was crucified.Christ did not return with His angels in 70 AD.

Christ was referring to His Second Coming in both Matt 16:27 and Rev 22:12, not to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

iamaberean
March 30th, 2016, 03:21 AM
Christ did not return with His angels in 70 AD.

Christ was referring to His Second Coming in both Matt 16:27 and Rev 22:12, not to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

He did, I will believe that because Jesus told his disciples he would. You are just a human being, He is God. Every Christian should believe God.
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God speaking to his disciples:
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Samie
March 30th, 2016, 10:01 AM
He did, I will believe that because Jesus told his disciples he would. You are just a human being, He is God. Every Christian should believe God.
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God speaking to his disciples:
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

All who remain in Christ keeping His word cannot taste death. Did you know that?
NKJ John 8:51-52 51 "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death." 52 Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'

iamaberean
March 30th, 2016, 03:32 PM
All who remain in Christ keeping His word cannot taste death. Did you know that?
NKJ John 8:51-52 51 "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death." 52 Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'
Yes, I know that.
Jesus told Martha "who soever believeth in me shall never die" He also told the thief on the cross "this day shall thou be with me in paradise" the thief never died for he went with Jesus to paradise. Not his body, but his soul never died. Did you know that?

Samie
March 31st, 2016, 04:22 AM
. . . He also told the thief on the cross "this day shall thou be with me in paradise" the thief never died for he went with Jesus to paradise. Not his body, but his soul never died. Did you know that?[/COLOR]Yes, I know that is false doctrine.

Sinning souls shall die (Ezek 18:4, 20). Did you know that?

iamaberean
April 1st, 2016, 03:30 AM
Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
. . . He also told the thief on the cross "this day shall thou be with me in paradise" the thief never died for he went with Jesus to paradise. Not his body, but his soul never died. Did you know that?


Yes, I know that is false doctrine.

Sinning souls shall die (Ezek 18:4, 20). Did you know that?

Be careful about saying something is false when it is God that spoke it.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Belief in Jesus overcomes sin and the thief showed his belief in Jesus when he spoke of His kingdom.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Samie
April 1st, 2016, 02:21 PM
Be careful about saying something is false when it is God that spoke it.
That's why I provided the verses where God said sinning souls shall die. And that's against your idea that souls never die. What Jesus told the thief on the cross is NOT saying souls never die.

iamaberean
April 1st, 2016, 03:11 PM
That's why I provided the verses where God said sinning souls shall die. And that's against your idea that souls never die. What Jesus told the thief on the cross is NOT saying souls never die.
So, I guess you are saying that the thief was still a sinner even though he was confessing that he believed Jesus was God.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I am saying that this man was a believer when he said 'remember me when thou cometh in your kingdom'. by saying that he was stating the fact that he was a believer.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
LORD, I believe!

We are not talking about the body that dies. We are talking about his soul.

As believers our sins are forgiven and our souls will live forever. As believers we have to believe this.

We were all sinners from birth, but Jesus can cover them and when he does our soul lives.

This is liking beating my head with a hammer.:hammer:

Samie
April 2nd, 2016, 09:26 AM
We are not talking about the body that dies. We are talking about his soul.

As believers our sins are forgiven and our souls will live forever. As believers we have to believe this.I guess you aren't aware of the biblical description of "soul". Have you read somewhere in Scriptures "man became a living soul"?


We were all sinners from birth, . . .No. We are all IN CHRIST from birth.


but Jesus can cover them and when he does our soul lives.Jesus has already forgiven all sins on the cross.


This is liking beating my head with a hammer.:hammer:Don't beat your head with a hammer. That's suicide.

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 10:26 AM
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace? How?



Because the WORKS we no longer have to do are the purification/ceremonial works.

patrick jane
April 2nd, 2016, 01:53 PM
Because the WORKS we no longer have to do are the purification/ceremonial works.
You will be rewarded for your bad works

2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV -

God's Truth
April 2nd, 2016, 05:11 PM
You will be rewarded for your bad works

2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV -

You try to hard to be funny and you are not.

Greek2Me
April 3rd, 2016, 03:11 PM
No contradiction (that I can see). The first state (salvation) comes purely by grace, a gift offered freely by God and only accepted by the sinner (so not considered a "work"). Cleansing and renewal occur as the Holy Spirit moves in and the newborn Child of God is enabled to do good (holy) works through Him.

But since the opportunity to serve is only offered, not compelled, there is reward for those who step out into service and loss of reward for those who COULD have served, but chose not to. Either way, the salvation (by grace) and the reward (of works) are two very distinct conditions, brought about by entirely different means, and producing entirely different results via two distinct judgements. This also accounts for the "non-reward" of good works by sinners, as grace CANNOT be secured by that avenue, and saving grace is the necessary prerequisite for doing "holy" works. The good works of the sinner, no matter how "good" they might be are insufficient to save and are therefore of no value to him in gaining salvation. Having been condemned in the first judgement (for entry or refusal into heaven), there is no second judgement to evaluate his good works, for there is no point; he in effect HAS none...

Samie
April 4th, 2016, 01:40 PM
No contradiction (that I can see). The first state (salvation) comes purely by grace, a gift offered freely by God and only accepted by the sinner (so not considered a "work"). Acceptance is the act of receiving. So, work. Why would it not be?

But since the opportunity to serve is only offered, not compelled, there is reward for those who step out into service and loss of reward for those who COULD have served, but chose not to.Loss of reward? Both righteous and unrighteous will be rewarded. Rom 2:5-11

Either way, the salvation (by grace) and the reward (of works) are two very distinct conditions, brought about by entirely different means, and producing entirely different results via two distinct judgements.Could you specify the two distinct judgments you are referring to and when will each occur? I could then comment on the remaining portion of your post.