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Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 10:30 AM
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

Not only does faith come by hearing and believing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

Paul wrote to the Galatians that were trying to be justified and receive the Spirit by keeping the law. "This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith" Galatians 3:2. Which again is the Gospel.

Not everyone that hears the Gospel believes the Gospel. Calvinist and Catholics do not believe the Gospel. You cannot say that you believe the Gospel and then say that Jesus only made a limited atonement. Nor can you say that you believe the Gospel and deny that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Both of those beliefs are anti-Gospel and are anti-Christ.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews,"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them (they didn't believe it) not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

They heard the Gospel but they didn't believe it. They didn't believe that Jesus had atoned for the sins of the world. They didn't believe that Jesus was the savior of the world. They didn't believe the Gospel. To not believe the Gospel as your only means of salvation is to condemn yourself to hell. Faith and the Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe the Gospel.

The Gospel is good news to them that hear it and believe it. The Gospel is the good news that sinners have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus it is now possible for "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13. Salvation has been provided for everyone, "That he by the grace of God has tasted death for eveyone" Hebrews 2:9 Not for just some, but for everyone.

Religion especially Catholicism and Calvinism is a diverson away from Christ and his Gospel. If you do not embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation you will most certainly perish.

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 10:38 AM
Religion especially Catholicism and Calvinism is a diverson away from Christ and his Gospel.


Why does that trouble you? Are you being held accountable for someone else's faith?

PureX
March 10th, 2016, 11:25 AM
Actually, faith doesn't require that we hear anything in particular. What it requires is that we make a choice: the choice to trust in an idea, and to act accordingly, in spite of the fact that we do not know the outcome.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 12:45 PM
Actually, faith doesn't require that we hear anything in particular. What it requires is that we make a choice: the choice to trust in an idea, and to act accordingly, in spite of the fact that we do not know the outcome.

That isn't what the scripture says.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 12:47 PM
Why does that trouble you? Are you being held accountable for someone else's faith?

I have burden for the lost.

TulipBee
March 10th, 2016, 12:52 PM
What does pate hear?

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 12:56 PM
I have burden for the lost.


Who do you consider to be lost?

fishrovmen
March 10th, 2016, 01:26 PM
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

Not only does faith come by hearing and believing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

Paul wrote to the Galatians that were trying to be justified and receive the Spirit by keeping the law. "This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith" Galatians 3:2. Which again is the Gospel.

Not everyone that hears the Gospel believes the Gospel. Calvinist and Catholics do not believe the Gospel. You cannot say that you believe the Gospel and then say that Jesus only made a limited atonement. Nor can you say that you believe the Gospel and deny that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Both of those beliefs are anti-Gospel and are anti-Christ.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews,"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them (they didn't believe it) not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

They heard the Gospel but they didn't believe it. They didn't believe that Jesus had atoned for the sins of the world. They didn't believe that Jesus was the savior of the world. They didn't believe the Gospel. To not believe the Gospel as your only means of salvation is to condemn yourself to hell. Faith and the Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe the Gospel.

The Gospel is good news to them that hear it and believe it. The Gospel is the good news that sinners have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus it is now possible for "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13. Salvation has been provided for everyone, "That he by the grace of God has tasted death for eveyone" Hebrews 2:9 Not for just some, but for everyone.

Religion especially Catholicism and Calvinism is a diverson away from Christ and his Gospel. If you do not embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation you will most certainly perish.

What if someone doesnt believe that God imputes previously forgiven and destroyed sins back to people? Does that mean that they dont believe the Gospel? An unbeliever? Void of the Holy Spirit?

PureX
March 10th, 2016, 02:34 PM
That isn't what the scripture says.In my experience, regarding this, the scriptures are wrong. Or more likely, it's a poor interpretation or application of the original text's true meaning (as is so often the case).

Faith, for me, comes as the result of my choosing to trust in an ideal that I hope is true, but cannot know to be true in advance of acting on it. So I have to choose to place my faith in that ideal, and act on my hope that the ideal will prove to be true. My faith is a direct result of my choice to both to identify it, and to act on it.

Once I do that, and I find that what I'd hoped for turns out to be true, as I'd hoped it would, then I can more easily act on that hope the next time. Or if I act on faith, but find that what I'd hoped to be true, just isn't, then I have to find some new ideal to place my faith in.

None of this has anything to do with anything I hear, read, or otherwise surmise, unless these sources give words to a hope that already lives in my heart, unidentified, and thereby helps me to better recognize and articulate it.

I believe the quote you're using from Romans is being used out of context, as you are applying it to everyone, universally, when it was written to a specific group of people to address a specific religious issue.

Samie
March 10th, 2016, 02:57 PM
In the OP, Robert said: "Faith and the Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe the Gospel."

Quite reversed, it seems. Believing is exercising faith, hence faith is needed to believe. Also, It's the Spirit that gives life (John 6:63), and one cannot believe unless first made spiritually alive.

I believe all were given faith (Rom 12:3), and that all were made spiritually alive (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). That empowers all and makes all accountable. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:00 PM
Who do you consider to be lost?

Anyone that does not honor God's Son by believing in him and his Gospel.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:03 PM
In the OP, Robert said: "Faith and the Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe the Gospel."

Quite reversed, it seems. Believing is exercising faith, hence faith is needed to believe. Also, It's the Spirit that gives life (John 6:63), and one cannot believe unless first made spiritually alive.

I believe all were given faith (Rom 12:3), and that all were made spiritually alive (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). That empowers all and makes all accountable. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

On the day of Pentecost they heard the Gospel, they believed the Gospel and they were saved, Acts 2:41.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:07 PM
What if someone doesnt believe that God imputes previously forgiven and destroyed sins back to people? Does that mean that they dont believe the Gospel? An unbeliever? Void of the Holy Spirit?

Just as the Lord imputes righteousness without works, so can he impute sin to unbelievres, Romans 4:7, 8.

Samie
March 10th, 2016, 03:10 PM
On the day of Pentecost they heard the Gospel, they believed the Gospel and they were saved, Acts 2:41.And so, faith and Spirit first before believing, NOT believe first to have faith and the Spirit.

One cannot believe without faith because believing is exercising faith.

One cannot hear the gospel unless spiritually alive, and one cannot be spiritually alive without the Spirit because it is the Spirit that gives life.

Samie
March 10th, 2016, 03:15 PM
Just as the Lord imputes righteousness without works, so can he impute sin to unbelievres, Romans 4:7, 8.I don't think God imputes sin.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 03:16 PM
Anyone that does not honor God's Son by believing in him and his Gospel.


If there are firstborn then that means there are others to follow.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:21 PM
And so, faith and Spirit first before believing, NOT believe first to have faith and the Spirit.

One cannot believe without faith because believing is exercising faith.

One cannot hear the gospel unless spiritually alive, and one cannot be spiritually alive without the Spirit because it is the Spirit that gives life.

Hearing comes first. Nothing happens until you hear the Gospel. When you hear what Christ has done to save you and you believe it and have faith in it, it is then and only then that God gives you the Holy Spirit. God must see you as saved and in Christ before he gives you the Holy Spirit.

This is what Paul meant when he wrote Romans 10:17.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:22 PM
If there are firstborn then that means there are others to follow.

Don't know what you mean by that.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 03:26 PM
I don't think God imputes sin.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

No sin is imputed until the judgment.

For now God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

That will change when Christ appears.

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 03:33 PM
Don't know what you mean by that.


Have you never heard of the church of the firstborn?

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 03:35 PM
No sin is imputed until the judgment.


Why will sin be imputed in the Judgment?

Samie
March 10th, 2016, 04:27 PM
Hearing comes first. Nothing happens until you hear the Gospel. When you hear what Christ has done to save you and you believe it and have faith in it, it is then and only then that God gives you the Holy Spirit. God must see you as saved and in Christ before he gives you the Holy Spirit.

This is what Paul meant when he wrote Romans 10:17.I think there's a need for you to explain how a man while yet spiritually dead is able to hear and believe the gospel.

Christ Himself said that apart from Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Yet here you are teaching that while NOT in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can hear and believe the gospel.

Samie
March 10th, 2016, 04:29 PM
No sin is imputed until the judgment.

For now God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

That will change when Christ appears.Where in the Bible does it say that sin is imputed come judgment day?

brewmama
March 10th, 2016, 04:29 PM
If there are firstborn then that means there are others to follow.


No it doesn't. It just means one is the first one born.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 10th, 2016, 04:55 PM
I think there's a need for you to explain how a man while yet spiritually dead is able to hear and believe the gospel.

Christ Himself said that apart from Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Yet here you are teaching that while NOT in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can hear and believe the gospel.

Context is everything. The book of John was written to/for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. It wasn't written to the Gentiles.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 05:37 PM
Why will sin be imputed in the Judgment?

In the judgment people will either be found in Christ or outside of Christ. It will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers. Those that are found to be outside of Christ will have their sins imputed to them and they will be condemned. Those that are in Christ will have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. Romans 4:5-9.

Robert Pate
March 10th, 2016, 05:42 PM
I think there's a need for you to explain how a man while yet spiritually dead is able to hear and believe the gospel.

Christ Himself said that apart from Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Yet here you are teaching that while NOT in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can hear and believe the gospel.


On the day of Pentecost thousands of unbelieving Jews, some of who had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36, heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41,

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 07:50 PM
In the judgment people will either be found in Christ or outside of Christ. It will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers. Those that are found to be outside of Christ will have their sins imputed to them and they will be condemned. Those that are in Christ will have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. Romans 4:5-9.


You obviously don't understand the penalty for unrepented sin.

beloved57
March 10th, 2016, 08:08 PM
pate


Faith and the Spirit Come By Hearing and Believing the Gospel

False and invalid statement, no scripture says that !

jamie
March 10th, 2016, 10:48 PM
No it doesn't. It just means one is the first one born.


Paul taught that Jesus is the firstborn of the dead.


And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead... (Colossians 1:18)

Do you believe others will be born of the Spirit as Jesus said?

brewmama
March 10th, 2016, 10:53 PM
Paul taught that Jesus is the firstborn of the dead.

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead... (Colossians 1:18)

Do you believe others will be born of the Spirit as Jesus said?

Yes, but that's beside the point. All I'm saying is that "firstborn" does not necessarily mean that others follow.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 08:32 AM
On the day of Pentecost thousands of unbelieving Jews, some of who had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36, heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41,That does not explain how people while dead can hear and believe the gospel. On the other hand, the fact that people were able to hear and believe is proof enough that they are spiritually alive, having been made alive TOGETHER with Christ in His resurrection.

fishrovmen
March 11th, 2016, 08:39 AM
Just as the Lord imputes righteousness without works, so can he impute sin to unbelievres, Romans 4:7, 8.

Yes I know full well what you believe Robert, that wasn't the question. Could you answer the question?

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 08:47 AM
Context is everything. The book of John was written to/for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. It wasn't written to the Gentiles.I don't think so. In the book of John, Jesus said that God so loved the world. Are the Gentiles NOT among those in the world? If they are (and they are!), then the book of John is written for all humans in the world, and that includes the Gentiles, too!

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 08:49 AM
That does not explain how people while dead can hear and believe the gospel. On the other hand, the fact that people were able to hear and believe is proof enough that they are spiritually alive, having been made alive TOGETHER with Christ in His resurrection.

There is life in the Gospel message. Hebrews 4:12.

Dead men hear, believe and are born again, 1 Peter 1:23.

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 08:56 AM
What if someone doesnt believe that God imputes previously forgiven and destroyed sins back to people? Does that mean that they dont believe the Gospel? An unbeliever? Void of the Holy Spirit?

No, The main thing is that a person has faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 08:57 AM
There is life in the Gospel message. Hebrews 4:12.This verse does not say how the dead can hear. If one can hear, then he is alive. He does not hear so he can be alive.


Dead men hear, believe and are born again, 1 Peter 1:3.This verse proves my point that people were made alive together with Christ when He resurrected.

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 09:02 AM
This verse does not say how the dead can hear. If one can hear, then he is alive. He does not hear so he can be alive.

This verse proves my point that people were made alive together with Christ when He resurrected.


No one is made alive in Christ until they receive him as their savior, John 5:24.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 09:16 AM
No one is made alive in Christ until they receive him as their savior, John 5:24.This verse does not say how the dead can hear. In fact, it tells us that people are already alive PRIOR to their believing and hearing.NKJ John 5:24 " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.The verse says that he who hears and believes "has passed" NOT "will pass" from death to life.

jamie
March 11th, 2016, 09:18 AM
Yes, but that's beside the point. All I'm saying is that "firstborn" does not necessarily mean that others follow.


By definition firstborn means eldest.

Why do you believe Jesus is the only son of God rather than the firstborn of the dead?

jamie
March 11th, 2016, 09:24 AM
If one can hear, then he is alive.


Are deaf persons not alive? Or is your theory skewed?

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 09:25 AM
This verse does not say how the dead can hear. In fact, it tells us that people are already alive PRIOR to their believing and hearing.NKJ John 5:24 " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.The verse says that he who hears and believes "has passed" NOT "will pass" from death to life.

Nothing is ours until we believe.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 09:48 AM
Nothing is ours until we believe.We are first in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4) being His body when He died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9; Eph 2:11-19; 1 Pet 2:24), and made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), given the faith of the Son of God (Rom 12:3), and THEN we can hear and believe. Empowerment first, before accountability.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 09:51 AM
Are deaf persons not alive? Or is your theory skewed?Are all deaf relegated to hell just because they can't hear? Sorry, but it looks like it's yours that's skewed.

jamie
March 11th, 2016, 09:57 AM
Are all deaf relegated to hell just because they can't hear? Sorry, but it looks like it's yours that's skewed.


You said, "The verse says that he who hears" but actually salvation has no prerequisites. Your question is not relevant.

:carryon:

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 10:00 AM
You said, "The verse says that he who hears" but actually salvation has no prerequisites. Your question is not relevant.

:carryon:Because you simply butt into my discussion with Robert without knowing how it all started. Review my posts addressed to Robert and see whether I placed any requisites. Look before you leap.

jamie
March 11th, 2016, 10:07 AM
Because you simply butt into my discussion with Robert without knowing how it all started. Review my posts addressed to Robert and see whether I placed any requisites. Look before you leap.


As I understand it, this forum is not for the exclusive use of you and Robert. What you may not realize is that other people read your posts, but I'm not sure why.

:wave:

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 10:09 AM
As I understand it, this forum is not for the exclusive use of you and Robert. What you may not realize is that other people read your posts, but I'm not sure why.

:wave:I NEVER claimed this forum is for my exclusive use and Robert's, did I?

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 10:11 AM
Now, back to topic please.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 10:22 AM
It's past midnight where I am, so good night...

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 01:15 PM
We are first in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4) being His body when He died (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9; Eph 2:11-19; 1 Pet 2:24), and made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), given the faith of the Son of God (Rom 12:3), and THEN we can hear and believe. Empowerment first, before accountability.

Nothing is yours untill you call on Christ to save you.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 04:10 PM
Nothing is yours untill you call on Christ to save you.Man cannot call on Christ unless God through Christ first made man alive.
NKJ John 6:33 "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."Obviously, the world is dead otherwise Christ would not have given it life. Christ's giving of life came first, before man's calling on Him could become possible.

This is why Christ said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Yet most preachers teach that while NOT in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can hear, he can call, he can believe, etc. Sadly, you are one of those preachers.

Robert Pate
March 11th, 2016, 05:45 PM
Man cannot call on Christ unless God through Christ first made man alive.
NKJ John 6:33 "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."Obviously, the world is dead otherwise Christ would not have given it life. Christ's giving of life came first, before man's calling on Him could become possible.

This is why Christ said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Yet most preachers teach that while NOT in Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can hear, he can call, he can believe, etc. Sadly, you are one of those preachers.

Man can hear and believe.

8000 Jews heard the Gospel and believed, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of who had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 07:49 PM
Man can hear and believe.Because they had been made alive.


8000 Jews heard the Gospel and believed, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of who had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.They had been made alive TOGETHER with Christ when He resurrected (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13).

Samie
March 11th, 2016, 08:14 PM
Hi Robert;

In other threads, you teach that "When Jesus died on the cross we died with him".

So, having died with His Son, when did God make us alive? Because in this thread, you seem to refuse to believe that God made us alive TOGETHER with Christ when He resurrected, despite having been shown Scriptures to this effect (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). You instead insist that UNLESS people first believe, they could not be made alive. Indirectly you seem to be teaching that while dead, people can believe?

Could you please explain, so I can better understand where you're coming from, brother?

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 09:08 AM
Hi Robert;

In other threads, you teach that "When Jesus died on the cross we died with him".

So, having died with His Son, when did God make us alive? Because in this thread, you seem to refuse to believe that God made us alive TOGETHER with Christ when He resurrected, despite having been shown Scriptures to this effect (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). You instead insist that UNLESS people first believe, they could not be made alive. Indirectly you seem to be teaching that while dead, people can believe?

Could you please explain, so I can better understand where you're coming from, brother?


Nothing is ours until it is received. God does not impose anything on anyone, John 1:12

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 11:04 AM
Nothing is ours until it is received. God does not impose anything on anyone, John 1:12

Invalid comment without scripture warrent !

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 11:05 AM
Nothing is yours untill you call on Christ to save you.

Invalid comment without scripture warrant. Those Christ died for are saved, reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 12:00 PM
Invalid comment without scripture warrant. Those Christ died for are saved, reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

You must accept Christ as your savior and repent or you will never see heaven.

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 12:10 PM
You must accept Christ as your savior and repent or you will never see heaven.
False statement, it promotes salvation by works, by what a person does, and so discredits Christ.

jamie
March 12th, 2016, 12:14 PM
Those Christ died for are saved, reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !


Being reconciled does not mean saved.

iouae
March 12th, 2016, 12:20 PM
Being reconciled does not mean saved.

Correct, because God is not going to save His enemies, so that they can be eternal enemies. Salvation is for His friends.

"Reconciled" is more like the ongoing Syrian peace talks. Reconciled means brought together so that you can talk peace and arrange to be friends. But it could all still go pear-shaped after reconcilliation.

jamie
March 12th, 2016, 12:22 PM
False statement, it promotes salvation by works, by what a person does, and so discredits Christ.


Not so, Jesus said repent and believe his gospel. Everyone has works (what a person does) whether good or bad but works are not relevant
to salvation. Salvation is a gift no matter what a person has done. Salvation by works is impossible and no one promotes it.

Right Divider
March 12th, 2016, 12:26 PM
Correct, because God is not going to save His enemies, so that they can be eternal enemies. Salvation is for His friends.

"Reconciled" is more like the ongoing Syrian peace talks. Reconciled means brought together so that you can talk peace and arrange to be friends. But it could all still go pear-shaped after reconcilliation.
Being reconciled means that we are NO LONGER enemies.

Your "pear-shaped" analogy is decidedly humanistic.

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 12:49 PM
Being reconciled does not mean saved.

Do you have a scripture that says that ?

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 12:51 PM
Not so, Jesus said repent and believe his gospel. Everyone has works (what a person does) whether good or bad but works are not relevant
to salvation. Salvation is a gift no matter what a person has done. Salvation by works is impossible and no one promotes it.

It is so, he teaches salvation by what man does, thats works salvation, and you are guilty of the same for agreeing with that heresy !

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 01:37 PM
Not so, Jesus said repent and believe his gospel. Everyone has works (what a person does) whether good or bad but works are not relevant
to salvation. Salvation is a gift no matter what a person has done. Salvation by works is impossible and no one promotes it.
You both teach salvation by works, by what a person does, that is a damnable heresy!

Bright Raven
March 12th, 2016, 01:52 PM
You both teach salvation by works, by what a person does, that is a damnable heresy!

You do not have a clue what the gospel is. For you're information.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Fact of Christ’s Resurrection
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 02:08 PM
Hi Robert;

In other threads, you teach that "When Jesus died on the cross we died with him".

So, having died with His Son, when did God make us alive? Because in this thread, you seem to refuse to believe that God made us alive TOGETHER with Christ when He resurrected, despite having been shown Scriptures to this effect (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). You instead insist that UNLESS people first believe, they could not be made alive. Indirectly you seem to be teaching that while dead, people can believe?

Could you please explain, so I can better understand where you're coming from, brother?
Nothing is ours until it is received. God does not impose anything on anyone, John 1:12How did you receive life when you were in your mom's tummy, Robert? Did you make any effort of receiving life while you were still lifeless?

You were born with your head already attached. Did you make any effort to receive your head prior to having it?

Same goes with spiritual life. Jesus said He gave His flesh for the life of the world (John 6:51). Whether one knows about it or not, he lives because Jesus died and rose again.

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 03:08 PM
How did you receive life when you were in your mom's tummy, Robert? Did you make any effort of receiving life while you were still lifeless?

You were born with your head already attached. Did you make any effort to receive your head prior to having it?

Same goes with spiritual life. Jesus said He gave His flesh for the life of the world (John 6:51). Whether one knows about it or not, he lives because Jesus died and rose again.


Without faith in Christ there is no salvation for anyone.

Here is a good example.

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

Repent and believe the Gospel.

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 03:09 PM
Not so, Jesus said repent and believe his gospel. Everyone has works (what a person does) whether good or bad but works are not relevant
to salvation. Salvation is a gift no matter what a person has done. Salvation by works is impossible and no one promotes it.

AMEN!

jamie
March 12th, 2016, 03:23 PM
Do you have a scripture that says that ?



For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. (Romans 5:10)

Reconciled by his death, saved by his life.

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 03:31 PM
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. (Romans 5:10)

Reconciled by his death, saved by his life.
That scripture does not say that.

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 03:34 PM
That scripture does not say that.

Of course it does. Your just to spiritually dead to see it

beloved57
March 12th, 2016, 03:35 PM
Of course it does. Your just to spiritually dead to see it
No it does not, both of you are lying on the scripture.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 12th, 2016, 04:06 PM
No it does not, both of you are lying on the scripture.

You don't think too straight, do ya?

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 04:08 PM
Without faith in Christ there is no salvation for anyone.Christ has already saved all sinners, Robert. And that saving act gave us all spiritual life (John 6:51) with which to repent and believe.


Here is a good example.

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

Repent and believe the Gospel.Yes, AFTER having been made spiritually alive. NOT BEFORE, as you teach. Repentance is overcoming the evil of impenitence. Believing is overcoming the evil of unbelief. Attached to Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4), we have His Power to overcome evil (Phil 4:13). And overcomers will NOT be blotted out from the book of life.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 12th, 2016, 04:08 PM
How did you receive life when you were in your mom's tummy, Robert? Did you make any effort of receiving life while you were still lifeless?

You were born with your head already attached. Did you make any effort to receive your head prior to having it?

Same goes with spiritual life. Jesus said He gave His flesh for the life of the world (John 6:51). Whether one knows about it or not, he lives because Jesus died and rose again.

Is this a Calvinist analogy Sam?

Grosnick Marowbe
March 12th, 2016, 04:10 PM
You do not have a clue what the gospel is. For you're information.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Fact of Christ’s Resurrection
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Good post BR

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 04:42 PM
Is this a Calvinist analogy Sam?No, brother. Instead, its a scriptural one. It's neither Arminian nor Calvinist.

Calvinists believe in a limited atonement. I don't. I believe in a general, unconditional, unlimited and actual atonement.

We all were saved, are being saved, but only overcomers will finally make it to life eternal.

Robert Pate
March 12th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Christ has already saved all sinners, Robert. And that saving act gave us all spiritual life (John 6:51) with which to repent and believe.

Yes, AFTER having been made spiritually alive. NOT BEFORE, as you teach. Repentance is overcoming the evil of impenitence. Believing is overcoming the evil of unbelief. Attached to Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4), we have His Power to overcome evil (Phil 4:13). And overcomers will NOT be blotted out from the book of life.

We are made spiritually alive by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2 also Romans 10:17.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 05:47 PM
We are made spiritually alive by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2 also Romans 10:17.And we're back to square one: Can the dead hear & believe? Looks like NOTHING in those verses speak of being made spiritually alive.

Again, God made us alive TOGETHER with Christ when He resurrected (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). AFTER we are made spiritually alive, only then can we hear and believe.

To be spiritually dead is to be apart from Christ. And apart from Him, Christ said we can do NOTHING. So how can we hear and believe while spiritually dead being yet apart from Christ?

Grosnick Marowbe
March 12th, 2016, 06:06 PM
Sam, you're leaving out an intricate part of the salvation process, humanities free-will. If you're a Calvinist (which seems to be the case) then, I understand where you're coming from. Calvinists don't believe in humanities free-will. However, there is a myriad of examples of humanities free-will in the Old and New Testament. Calvinists have been indoctrinated to not see those examples, however.

Samie
March 12th, 2016, 06:49 PM
Sam, you're leaving out an intricate part of the salvation process, humanities free-will. I don't leave free-will out. We are admonished to Overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). We can either decide to be overcome by evil or overcome evil with good. That is precisely exercising free-will. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

If you're a Calvinist (which seems to be the case) then, I understand where you're coming from. Calvinists don't believe in humanities free-will. However, there is a myriad of examples of humanities free-will in the Old and New Testament. Calvinists have been indoctrinated to not see those examples, however.I am not a Calvinist. Calvinists don't believe in blotting out of names. They even suspect the existence of the book of life.

Neither am I an Arminian. Arminians believe in a general, but conditional, atonement.

Again, I believe in a general, unconditional, unlimited and actual atonement.

beloved57
March 13th, 2016, 04:16 AM
We are made spiritually alive by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2 also Romans 10:17.
False statement not found in the scriptures!

Robert Pate
March 13th, 2016, 05:25 PM
False statement not found in the scriptures!

"So then faith comes hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17.

Which is the Gospel.

beloved57
March 13th, 2016, 05:36 PM
"So then faith comes hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17.

Which is the Gospel.
That's not what that says.

patrick jane
March 13th, 2016, 07:36 PM
That's not what that says.
Here is salvation in a nutshell - first the gospel of our salvation 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 KJV and


Romans 10:17 KJV -

Then by hearing, trusting and believing we (BOC) have salvation that cannot be lost - Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV -

It's all because Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:20 KJV -

beloved57
March 13th, 2016, 09:53 PM
Here is salvation in a nutshell - first the gospel of our salvation 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 KJV and


Romans 10:17 KJV -

Then by hearing, trusting and believing we (BOC) have salvation that cannot be lost - Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV -

It's all because Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:20 KJV -

Anyone teaching and or agreeing with anyone teaching salvation by works, by what a person does, is a false teacher, an apostate !

patrick jane
March 13th, 2016, 10:34 PM
Anyone teaching and or agreeing with anyone teaching salvation by works, by what a person does, is a false teacher, an apostate !
Right, that's why I don't do that

beloved57
March 13th, 2016, 10:35 PM
Right, that's why I don't do that
You agree with pate who teaches it, so you are guilty by association!

patrick jane
March 13th, 2016, 10:36 PM
hearing and believing is not works. Jesus did the work

patrick jane
March 13th, 2016, 11:01 PM
You agree with pate who teaches it, so you are guilty by association!
236632366323664

beloved57
March 13th, 2016, 11:05 PM
hearing and believing is not works. Jesus did the work
They are works, things a person does.

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 10:36 AM
They are works, things a person does.

They are not works that save.

beloved57
March 14th, 2016, 10:44 AM
They are not works that save.
But that is what you teach!

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 11:18 AM
They are works, things a person does.
Why don't you explain your beliefs ? Scared ?

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 11:20 AM
But that is what you teach!

Believing is not a work that saves. The only work that saves is the work of Christ.

You need to get saved so that understand the things of the Spirit.

patrick jane
March 14th, 2016, 11:20 AM
They are works, things a person does.
I'm sorry that you think hearing, believing and trusting the Lord are works, I'm sorry for you.

beloved57
March 14th, 2016, 11:21 AM
I'm sorry that you thing hearing, believing and trusting the Lord are works, I'm sorry for you.
They are works, things the person does.

beloved57
March 14th, 2016, 11:30 AM
Believing is not a work that saves. The only work that saves is the work of Christ.

You need to get saved so that understand the things of the Spirit.
That's what you teach. You don't believe that everyone Christ died for are saved from their sins and are going to eternal glory.

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 02:06 PM
That's what you teach. You don't believe that everyone Christ died for are saved from their sins and are going to eternal glory.

You have been blinded by Satan.

Jesus has provided salvation for Everyone, Hebrews 2:9, but nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12.

beloved57
March 14th, 2016, 02:07 PM
You have been blinded by Satan.

Jesus has provided salvation for Everyone, Hebrews 2:9, but nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12.
False statements not found in the scriptures!

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 03:01 PM
False statements not found in the scriptures!

It is amazing to see how spiritually blind you are.

I posted to scriptures and you call them false statements that are not in the Bible.

beloved57
March 14th, 2016, 03:07 PM
It is amazing to see how spiritually blind you are.

I posted to scriptures and you call them false statements that are not in the Bible.
You make false statements all the time.

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 01:35 AM
Why don't you explain your beliefs ? Scared ?

I have explained my beliefs, practically every thread I have ever started here explains my beliefs, so your statement is
delinquent !

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 07:12 AM
I have explained my beliefs, practically every thread I have ever started here explains my beliefs, so your statement is
delinquent !

Same beliefs as John Calvin, only more hyper.

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 07:16 AM
Same beliefs as John Calvin, only more hyper.
Your belief is the same as Roman Catholicism but in a modified form. Salvation by works, by what a person does.

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 12:33 PM
Your belief is the same as Roman Catholicism but in a modified form. Salvation by works, by what a person does.

The words "Believe" and "Faith" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. They are things that we do.

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 02:07 PM
The words "Believe" and "Faith" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. They are things that we do.
You teach salvation by works, by what a person does!

Bright Raven
March 15th, 2016, 04:35 PM
You teach salvation by works, by what a person does!

If you don't believe and have faith you are NOT a Christian.

Robert Pate
March 15th, 2016, 04:41 PM
You teach salvation by works, by what a person does!

Did you not embrace Calvinism, which is a work? That is something that you did, Now you are going to hell for trying to be saved by works.

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 04:48 PM
Did you not embrace Calvinism, which is a work? That is something that you did, Now you are going to hell for trying to be saved by works.
I didn't do anything , I was an enemy when God saved me! Rom 5:10

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 05:23 PM
I didn't do anything , I was an enemy when God saved me! Rom 5:10

And the same with me.
Praise the Lord!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 05:27 PM
And the same with me.
Praise the Lord!

~~~~~
I know you understand!

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 05:35 PM
I know you understand!

:thumb:

~~~~~

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 09:15 AM
I didn't do anything , I was an enemy when God saved me! Rom 5:10

And you are still an enemy, Philippians 3:18.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 09:20 AM
And you are still an enemy, Philippians 3:18.
I'm your enemy

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:20 PM
I'm your enemy

As long as you continue to pervert the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, you will continue to be my enemy and the enemy of Jesus Christ.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 12:21 PM
As long as you continue to pervert the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and justification by faith, you will continue to be my enemy and the enemy of Jesus Christ.
You are a enemy to the Gospel.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:24 PM
You are a enemy to the Gospel.

No, I embrace the Gospel as my only means of salvation. Jesus lived and died for me.

You have chosen to believe another Gospel, that is a false Gospel.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 12:25 PM
No, I embrace the Gospel as my only means of salvation. Jesus lived and died for me.

You have chosen to believe another Gospel, that is a false Gospel.
You don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died!

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:40 PM
You don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died!

Your problem is with the Bible.

The scripture plainly says that Jesus tasted death for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

You don't believe what the scriptures say. Instead you embrace the doctrine of a heretic.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 12:41 PM
Your problem is with the Bible.

The scripture plainly says that Jesus tasted death for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

You don't believe what the scriptures say. Instead you embrace the doctrine of a heretic.
You don't believe the scripture, you don't believe that Christ death saved them He died for.

Bright Raven
March 16th, 2016, 12:50 PM
You don't believe the scripture, you don't believe that Christ death saved them He died for.
Of course we do. You just have no clue who that is.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 12:57 PM
You don't believe the scripture, you don't believe that Christ death saved them He died for.

I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world just like the Bible says, 1 John 2:2.

You don't believe that. You prefer the words of a heretic over the word of God.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 01:04 PM
I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world just like the Bible says, 1 John 2:2.

You don't believe that. You prefer the words of a heretic over the word of God.
You don't believe that His Death alone saved them He died for, nor do you believe and understand who the World is He died for.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 01:14 PM
You don't believe that His Death alone saved them He died for, nor do you believe and understand who the World is He died for.

You stand in rejection of salvation by grace through faith. You are lost.

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 01:33 PM
You stand in rejection of salvation by grace through faith. You are lost.
You are in a lost state, teaching salvation by works, by what a person does

Bright Raven
March 16th, 2016, 02:09 PM
You are in a lost state, teaching salvation by works, by what a person does

Pate is right, you are wrong.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 04:47 PM
You are in a lost state, teaching salvation by works, by what a person does

The Gospel calls for a response. No response is a response.

Nanja
March 16th, 2016, 05:22 PM
You stand in rejection of salvation by grace through faith. You are lost.


Salvation by Grace is only for God's Elect whom Christ died for 2 Tim. 1:9, His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23. And the Faith given them in New Birth is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.

The natural man cannot be saved by his own faith, for that kind of faith can never please God Rom. 8:7-8; Is. 64:6!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 16th, 2016, 07:30 PM
The Gospel calls for a response. No response is a response.
You don't believe the Gospel, you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you teach salvation by works.

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2016, 08:41 PM
Salvation by Grace is only for God's Elect whom Christ died for 2 Tim. 1:9, His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23. And the Faith given them in New Birth is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.

The natural man cannot be saved by his own faith, for that kind of faith can never please God Rom. 8:7-8; Is. 64:6!

~~~~~


Calvinism is just the opposite of salvation by grace through faith.

Grace means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man, John 3:16 is a glimpse of God's grace.

Faith means faith in the work and person of Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Nanja
March 17th, 2016, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Nanja

Salvation by Grace is only for God's Elect whom Christ died for 2 Tim. 1:9, His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23. And the Faith given them in New Birth is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.

The natural man cannot be saved by his own faith, for that kind of faith can never please God Rom. 8:7-8; Is. 64:6!

~~~~~





Faith means faith in the work and person of Jesus Christ, plus nothing.


But not your own faith or believing you perform while still carnal/in the flesh Rom. 8:7-8.
No person is saved by any work he does, and believing is a work:


ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


The Faith that is a Fruit and Gift of the Holy Spirit is received passively when a person is Born Anew, Born of the Spirit. That's the only kind of Faith that pleases God, it's God-Given John 3:27. Then the following verse applies:

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

~~~~~

Robert Pate
March 18th, 2016, 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by Nanja






But not your own faith or believing you perform while still carnal/in the flesh Rom. 8:7-8.
No person is saved by any work he does, and believing is a work:


ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


The Faith that is a Fruit and Gift of the Holy Spirit is received passively when a person is Born Anew, Born of the Spirit. That's the only kind of Faith that pleases God, it's God-Given John 3:27. Then the following verse applies:

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

~~~~~


You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. You are also in denial of the many scriptures that tell us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

You are also in denial of the fact that people are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel, Hebrews 4:4.

You need to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and be saved. Trusting in Christ alone.

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 05:21 AM
You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. You are also in denial of the many scriptures that tell us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

You are also in denial of the fact that people are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel, Hebrews 4:4.

You need to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and be saved. Trusting in Christ alone.
You don't believe the scripture, nor do you know what the World is that God so loved, you are in unbelief and darkness.

Nanja
March 19th, 2016, 05:28 AM
You don't believe the scripture, nor do you know what the World is that God so loved, you are in unbelief and darkness.


So true, and I believe he was appointed to it Jude 1:4.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 05:31 AM
So true, and I believe he was appointed to it Jude 1:4.

~~~~~
I do too!

Robert Pate
March 19th, 2016, 10:48 AM
You don't believe the scripture, nor do you know what the World is that God so loved, you are in unbelief and darkness.

There is only one world. It is the world that God loves and sent his only begotten Son to save, John 3:16.

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 10:49 AM
There is only one world. It is the world that God loves and sent his only begotten Son to save, John 3:16.
You don't know what the World is in Jn 3:16. You don't believe Jn 3:16.

Bright Raven
March 19th, 2016, 11:33 AM
You don't know what the World is in Jn 3:16. You don't believe Jn 3:16.

John 3:16 is one of the best known verses in all the Bible, doubtless because it states the Gospel so clearly and simply. It summarizes what the Lord Jesus had been teaching Nicodemus concerning the manner by which the new birth is received. God, we read, so loved the world. The world here includes all mankind. God does not love men's sins or the wicked world system but he loves people and is not willing that any should perish. The extent of His love is shown by the fact that He gave His only begotten Son. God has no other Son like the Lord Jesus. It was an expression of His infinite love that He would be willing to give His unique Son for a race of rebel sinners. This does not mean that everyone is saved. A person must receive what Christ has done for him before God will give him eternal life. Therefore the words are added "that whosoever believes in Him should not perish." There is no need for anyone to perish. A way has been provided by which all might be saved, but a person must acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as personal savior. When he does this, he has eternal life.( The Believer's Bible Commentary) That B57 and Nanja is the meaning of John 3:16. Hope you read it well and get it right since as of now you have it wrong!

1Mind1Spirit
March 19th, 2016, 12:48 PM
John 3:16 is one of the best known verses in all the Bible, doubtless because it states the Gospel so clearly and simply. A person must receive what Christ has done for him before God will give him eternal life. Therefore the words are added "that whosoever believes in Him should not perish." Hope you read it well and get it right since as of now you have it wrong!

No, BR, it is you who has it wrong.

It is when one acknowledges Jesus that they can be assured of his/her place in Christ.

For without God revealing that Jesus is he who was to come, nobody will acknowledge it.

Stop listening to the inglorious bastards, aka glory thieves.

Jesus himself never stole any glory from the Father.

Bright Raven
March 19th, 2016, 12:53 PM
No, BR, it is you who has it wrong.

It is when one acknowledges Jesus that they can be assured of his/her place in Christ.

For without God revealing that Jesus is he who was to come, nobody will acknowledge it.

Stop listening to the inglorious bastards, aka glory thieves.

Jesus himself never stole any glory from the Father.
Sorry that you are unable to read. The commentary states exactly what you said. If it doesn't, show me where.

1Mind1Spirit
March 19th, 2016, 12:59 PM
Sorry that you are unable to read. The commentary states exactly what you said. If it doesn't, show me where.

OK, right here......

" A person must receive what Christ has done for him before God will give him eternal life."


However Jesus said.....

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus is not God....

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Bright Raven
March 19th, 2016, 01:03 PM
OK, right here......

" A person must receive what Christ has done for him before God will give him eternal life."

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus is not God.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

In refuting the deity of Christ you prove yourself to be a non-christian. So what is your problem in the first place. If He is able to impart eternal life, who is He? Get your theology straight and you will be fine.

1Mind1Spirit
March 19th, 2016, 01:14 PM
In refuting the deity of Christ you prove yourself to be a non-christian.

I've never refuted the Deity of Christ.


So what is your problem in the first place. If He is able to impart eternal life, who is He?

The Son of God, aka Captain of my salvation.


Get your theology straight and you will be fine.

I am in Christ, why would I need Theological theories based upon false teachings of men?

Bright Raven
March 19th, 2016, 01:22 PM
I've never refuted the Deity of Christ.



The Son of God, aka Captain of my salvation.



I am in Christ, why would I need Theological theories based upon false teachings of men?

You need to know the truth and the truth will set you free.

John 1:1New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [b]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

1Mind1Spirit
March 19th, 2016, 05:34 PM
You need to know the truth and the truth will set you free.

John 1:1New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [b]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I read just fine.

And I showed you that yer copy pasted commentary did not say what I said.

So my question to you is, why would you think I should listen to you when it is you who needs a lesson in how to read?

Bright Raven
March 19th, 2016, 07:36 PM
I read just fine.

And I showed you that yer copy pasted commentary did not say what I said.

So my question to you is, why would you think I should listen to you when it is you who needs a lesson in how to read?

I know who jesus is, you don't. Try again


It is when one acknowledges Jesus that they can be assured of his/her place in Christ.

For without God revealing that Jesus is he who was to come, nobody will acknowledge it.

Stop listening to the inglorious bastards, aka glory thieves.

Jesus himself never stole any glory from the Father.

First two sentences, correct. Where you got three and four from I have no idea.

Robert Pate
March 20th, 2016, 09:29 AM
I read just fine.

And I showed you that yer copy pasted commentary did not say what I said.

So my question to you is, why would you think I should listen to you when it is you who needs a lesson in how to read?

If Jesus is not God, then who is he?

He said that he is one with the father, John 10:30.

1Mind1Spirit
March 20th, 2016, 06:30 PM
I know who jesus is, you don't. Try again



First two sentences, correct. Where you got three and four from I have no idea.

Three and four define you and your ilk that think the cart can draw the horse.

Bright Raven
March 20th, 2016, 08:59 PM
Three and four define you and your ilk that think the cart can draw the horse.
And who do you say that Jesus is?

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 02:54 AM
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

Not only does faith come by hearing and believing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

Paul wrote to the Galatians that were trying to be justified and receive the Spirit by keeping the law. "This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith" Galatians 3:2. Which again is the Gospel.

Not everyone that hears the Gospel believes the Gospel. Calvinist and Catholics do not believe the Gospel. You cannot say that you believe the Gospel and then say that Jesus only made a limited atonement. Nor can you say that you believe the Gospel and deny that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Both of those beliefs are anti-Gospel and are anti-Christ.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews,"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them (they didn't believe it) not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

They heard the Gospel but they didn't believe it. They didn't believe that Jesus had atoned for the sins of the world. They didn't believe that Jesus was the savior of the world. They didn't believe the Gospel. To not believe the Gospel as your only means of salvation is to condemn yourself to hell. Faith and the Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe the Gospel.

The Gospel is good news to them that hear it and believe it. The Gospel is the good news that sinners have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus it is now possible for "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13. Salvation has been provided for everyone, "That he by the grace of God has tasted death for eveyone" Hebrews 2:9 Not for just some, but for everyone.

Religion especially Catholicism and Calvinism is a diverson away from Christ and his Gospel. If you do not embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation you will most certainly perish.

You say, "Not only does faith come by hearing and believing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who hear and believe the Gospel."

You say that, and it is true, except that you left something out.

We mus believe AND OBEY.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


The Holy Spirit is given to those WHO OBEY.

Robert Pate
March 22nd, 2016, 12:09 PM
You say, "Not only does faith come by hearing and believing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who hear and believe the Gospel."

You say that, and it is true, except that you left something out.

We mus believe AND OBEY.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


The Holy Spirit is given to those WHO OBEY.

The only condition for one to be saved is to believe in Jesus, John 3:18.

Bright Raven
March 22nd, 2016, 12:14 PM
The only condition for one to be saved is to believe in Jesus, John 3:18.

Amen, Also Romans 10:9-10

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 12:29 PM
Amen, Also Romans 10:9-10

If one confesses that Jesus is Lord, they had better be obeying Jesus.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?


Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone-- James.

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 12:29 PM
The only condition for one to be saved is to believe in Jesus, John 3:18.

Believes WHAT? That is what you are leaving out and do not understand.

Bright Raven
March 22nd, 2016, 01:10 PM
If one confesses that Jesus is Lord, they had better be obeying Jesus.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?


Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone-- James.Did I ever say it was wrong to do what Jesus said?

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 01:58 PM
Did I ever say it was wrong to do what Jesus said?

So do you agree we are to do more than just believe?

Bright Raven
March 22nd, 2016, 02:11 PM
So do you agree we are to do more than just believe?Why?

Ephesians 2:8-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Nothing else is necessary. If there is more show us.

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 02:15 PM
Why?

Ephesians 2:8-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Nothing else is necessary. If there is more show us.

That scripture is about not doing the ceremonial/purification works.

Robert Pate
March 22nd, 2016, 02:37 PM
Believes WHAT? That is what you are leaving out and do not understand.

The reason that salvation is by faith alone is because salvation is by Christ alone.

Jesus as our representative and substitute has done all that is necessary for our salvation.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that you can do to make yourself acceptable to God.

Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. What he wants you to do now is accept what he has done for you.

Bright Raven
March 22nd, 2016, 02:38 PM
That scripture is about not doing the ceremonial/purification works.

That my dear is false.

It is a clear statement of the simple plan of salvation. It all originates with grace. God takes the initiative in providing it. Salvation is given to those who are utterly unworthy. The way we receive the gift of eternal life is through faith. Faith means that man takes his place as a lost guilty sinner, and receives the Lord Jesus as his only hope of salvation. True saving faith is the commitment of a person to a Person. Any idea that man can deserve or earn salvation is forever exploded by the words, and that not of yourselves. Dead people can do nothing and sinners deserve nothing but punishment. Salvation is a gift of God. A gift of course is a free and unconditional present. That is the only basis upon which God offers salvation. The gift of God is salvation by grace through faith. It is offered to people everywhere. (Believer's Bible Commentary)

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 08:12 PM
The reason that salvation is by faith alone is because salvation is by Christ alone.

Jesus as our representative and substitute has done all that is necessary for our salvation.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that you can do to make yourself acceptable to God.

Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. What he wants you to do now is accept what he has done for you.

Jesus saves us ALL ON HIS OWN, but he CHOOSES those he saves. JESUS SAYS he chooses those who obey him.

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 08:17 PM
That my dear is false.

It is a clear statement of the simple plan of salvation. It all originates with grace. God takes the initiative in providing it. Salvation is given to those who are utterly unworthy. The way we receive the gift of eternal life is through faith. Faith means that man takes his place as a lost guilty sinner, and receives the Lord Jesus as his only hope of salvation. True saving faith is the commitment of a person to a Person. Any idea that man can deserve or earn salvation is forever exploded by the words, and that not of yourselves. Dead people can do nothing and sinners deserve nothing but punishment. Salvation is a gift of God. A gift of course is a free and unconditional present. That is the only basis upon which God offers salvation. The gift of God is salvation by grace through faith. It is offered to people everywhere. (Believer's Bible Commentary)

People who were called DEAD in their sins are the GENTILES. They were called that BECAUSE they did not CLEAN THEMSELVES.

Bright Raven
March 22nd, 2016, 08:19 PM
People who were called DEAD in their sins are the GENTILES. They were called that BECAUSE they did not CLEAN THEMSELVES.

Still the only clear way of salvation.

God's Truth
March 22nd, 2016, 08:24 PM
Still the only clear way of salvation.

The only clear way to salvation is that we do not have to CLEAN ourselves by doing something other than having faith---but that does NOT mean we do not have to obey God, or that by OBEYING WE DISQUALIFY ourselves, as you preach.

Robert Pate
March 23rd, 2016, 11:18 AM
The only clear way to salvation is that we do not have to CLEAN ourselves by doing something other than having faith---but that does NOT mean we do not have to obey God, or that by OBEYING WE DISQUALIFY ourselves, as you preach.

Paul said,"And you are complete in him" (Christ) Colossians 2:10.

If we are complete "In Christ" what else is required, other than faith?

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 01:58 AM
Paul said,"And you are complete in him" (Christ) Colossians 2:10.

If we are complete "In Christ" what else is required, other than faith?

11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not performed by hand, when you threw off your sinful nature in true Christian circumcision;


That is about making the decision to DIE to pleasing your flesh, as in sinning.

Robert Pate
March 25th, 2016, 08:00 AM
11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not performed by hand, when you threw off your sinful nature in true Christian circumcision;


That is about making the decision to DIE to pleasing your flesh, as in sinning.


Where does it say we can throw off our sinful nature?

You were born a sinner and you will die a sinner, Psalm 51:5. There are saved sinners and there are lost sinner, but we are all sinners, Romans 3:10.

sin is the transgression of God's holy law. If you have one angry thought towards your neighbor you have sinned.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:19 AM
Why does that trouble you? Are you being held accountable for someone else's faith?

Why does it bother you that your fellow posters don't believe in an "Elect system?'

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:21 AM
Where does it say we can throw off our sinful nature?

You were born a sinner and you will die a sinner, Psalm 51:5. There are saved sinners and there are lost sinner, but we are all sinners, Romans 3:10.

sin is the transgression of God's holy law. If you have one angry thought towards your neighbor you have sinned.

Good post Pate.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:24 AM
The only clear way to salvation is that we do not have to CLEAN ourselves by doing something other than having faith---but that does NOT mean we do not have to obey God, or that by OBEYING WE DISQUALIFY ourselves, as you preach.

One does not lose the ability to sin once one is in Christ and Christ in them. Our sins were paid for on the cross. However, as long as we're in the flesh we will commit sin. We're positioned in Christ in our "Spiritual state" but still have our physical body. We become saved by hearing the Gospel and placing our faith in Christ as our Savior. Faith is the ONLY prerequisite. We must trust that the indwelling Holy Spirit will help us not to sin. However, we are weak at times because we still have a fleshly body. That's why Paul tells us; "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." Galations 5:16

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:43 AM
The only clear way to salvation is that we do not have to CLEAN ourselves by doing something other than having faith---but that does NOT mean we do not have to obey God, or that by OBEYING WE DISQUALIFY ourselves, as you preach.

Sounds like you're trying to place words in BRs mouth?

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:46 AM
The only condition for one to be saved is to believe in Jesus, John 3:18.

Yep!

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:47 AM
Amen, Also Romans 10:9-10

Yep!

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:48 AM
GT is confused in a horrific kind of way.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 25th, 2016, 08:49 AM
GT desires to add to the salvation process.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 11:15 AM
Where does it say we can throw off our sinful nature?





Colossians 2:11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not performed by hand, when you threw off your sinful nature in true Christian circumcision;

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 11:21 AM
GT is confused in a horrific kind of way.

She has always been a little wacky.

Robert Pate
March 25th, 2016, 12:21 PM
She has always been a little wacky.

Grosnick is one of the few on the Forum that posses the truth.

Ktoyou
March 25th, 2016, 12:27 PM
Grosnick is one of the few on the Forum that posses the truth.

What is this in reference to? My statement was directed at GT, not Grosnick.

As far as possessing the truth, you have some insight, I grant you that, although you do have more limitations than some here who see the truth more clearly.

jamie
March 25th, 2016, 04:23 PM
Why does it bother you that your fellow posters don't believe in an "Elect system?'


What is an elect system?