PDA

View Full Version : Justified by Works and Not By Faith Alone?



serpentdove
March 5th, 2016, 11:39 AM
[Justified by Works and Not By Faith Alone? Mike Gendron, Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] :olinger: "As we share the Gospel of grace with Roman Catholics, there is one particular verse they often quote to justify their position. It is James 2:24, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." When this verse is taken out of context, it appears that James is teaching something inconsistent with the rest of Scripture. However, when we study the context of chapter two, we see that James is not teaching us how to be justified, he is contrasting two kinds of faith - a faith which saves and one which does not. There is spurious faith and genuine faith. There is intellectual faith and heart faith, a man-generated faith and a God-given faith. There is dead faith and living faith.

James is dealing with a problem that is widespread in the church. We have many professors of Christ who do not possess Christ because they have never been born again. They are victims of the worst kind of deception, believing they are Christians when they are not. The most terrifying words professing Christians could ever hear would be Jesus saying, "Depart from me, I never knew you" (Mat. 7:23). That's why James exhorts his readers to "be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves" (Jas. 1:22).

James is making it clear that a mere profession of faith does not result in salvation. But he is not teaching that salvation is earned by works. In fact, he already wrote in chapter one: "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights" (1:17). Faith and salvation are included in that perfect gift of God's grace (Eph. 2:8-9). That is why he says, "show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18). Since faith is an invisible relationship between God and man, its only visible evidence are the works produced by faith. James is declaring that genuine faith will be accompanied by good works. We are justified by faith alone, but faith that justifies is never alone! Those with God-given faith have also been given a new heart and a new nature that produces a changed life which, in turn, bears fruit for the glory of God (John 15:4-8).

True believers may have times of unfruitfulness in their lives, but the pattern and direction of their lives will be characterized by an increasing pattern of righteousness and a decreasing pattern of sin. This process of sanctification is not about sinless perfection, but a righteous direction. Righteous behavior is what distinguishes counterfeit faith from genuine faith. We enter into salvation by faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-9), but after we are saved then we do the works God has prepared for us (Eph. 2:10).

We also need to know that the word "justified" has two meanings. One is an act of God's grace whereby He pardons and declares a person righteous. It is a legal or forensic declaration by God to those who have faith. Paul wrote: "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1). The other meaning is "to vindicate" or "to show" that someone is righteous. Abraham was justified (vindicated) "when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar" (James 2:21). His obedience to God vindicated or displayed his genuine faith. Abraham did not need to be legally declared righteous again because God had justified him by faith many years before (Gen. 12:1-7; 15:6).

Some will ask why does James appear to contradict Paul who wrote: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9). We need to explain that Paul is dealing with the means of salvation, whereas James is dealing with the outcome of salvation. Paul is dealing with the nature of justification, while James is dealing with the nature of faith. When Catholics say that James 2:24 is the only place in the Bible where the words "faith alone" appear together. We must explain that James is not teaching how to be justified. He is declaring that believers are vindicated by their works as a demonstration of their living faith.

Listen to Mike's complete audio message on James 2:14-26 here (http://www.proclaimingthegospel.org/site/audiodownloads.asp?sec_id=180014816)." Pro-Gospel.org

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 12:15 PM
Serpent and Pate coming together in agreement that their boast is that they were saved by not obeying, and that it is obedience, except for one tiny little act of obedience called 'faith'.

We are to obey and have faith, which is also obedience.

Have faith about what?

Have faith that if you do not obey Jesus, you will not be saved with eternal life.

John 8:51 I tell you the solemn truth, if anyone obeys my teaching, he will never see death."

Serpent and Pate: Obeying Jesus' teachings is to not obey him, or it will be a works salvation.

Jesus:
Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those whohear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.


We are blessed as a family member and friend if we do what Jesus says.

serpentdove
March 5th, 2016, 12:29 PM
Serpent and Pate coming together in agreement that their boast is that they were saved by not obeying...:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:

"Faith alone saves. But the faith that saves is not alone." ~ John Calvin

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 12:37 PM
:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:

"Faith alone saves. But the faith that saves is not alone." ~ John Calvin



lol That is an example of a forked tongue.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 5th, 2016, 03:34 PM
:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:

"Faith alone saves. But the faith that saves is not alone." ~ John Calvin

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

That makes her quite infamous.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 5th, 2016, 03:41 PM
[Justified by Works and Not By Faith Alone? Mike Gendron, Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] :olinger: "As we share the Gospel of grace with Roman Catholics, there is one particular verse they often quote to justify their position. It is James 2:24, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." When this verse is taken out of context, it appears that James is teaching something inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.

The reason why James sounds like he's contradicting Paul is, "he was." James was preaching to the scattered tribes of Israel. He was preaching the Kingdom Message. Which included "works and faith" in combination. Whereas, Paul was preaching the Grace message to the Gentiles which was, "faith alone without works."

Grosnick Marowbe
March 5th, 2016, 03:44 PM
That's why it's so important to be able to, "Rightly Divide" the written word. We MUST know who is being spoken to, the Jew or the Gentile.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 04:41 PM
The reason why James sounds like he's contradicting Paul is, "he was." James was preaching to the scattered tribes of Israel. He was preaching the Kingdom Message. Which included "works and faith" in combination. Whereas, Paul was preaching the Grace message to the Gentiles which was, "faith alone without works."

Now you openly state that Paul taught another gospel and so condemned himself, and that he went against Jesus and the Apostles to the Lamb.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

Bradley D
March 5th, 2016, 10:04 PM
I believe that James helps clear up any misunderstanding some may get from Paul's message. Works alone will not get us into heaven. No one can ever earn their place in God's Kingdom it is by God's Love. However, I see James pointing out to us that faith alone without a change in our lives is "dead."

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 12:40 AM
James says faith alone cannot save anyone.

Nick M
March 6th, 2016, 06:09 AM
James is right. I was justified by works(faith), just not my faith and works.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 09:06 AM
James is right. I was justified by works(faith), just not my faith and works.

You are the one who must have faith and right actions. Jesus obeyed the Father, and we must obey too.

James tells us that even the demons believe and do something, they shudder.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.


We must have faith ourselves, and right action.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.


The Jews that were cut off can be saved if they do not persist in unbelief.


Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Paul not only taught believe and repent to be saved (Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20), but he also taught that we should continue to OBEY AFTER WE ARE SAVED:

Romans 13:14, Galatians 5:16, and Colossians 3:12, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:7, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and so many more.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 09:10 AM
Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 6th, 2016, 10:04 AM
Now you openly state that Paul taught another gospel and so condemned himself, and that he went against Jesus and the Apostles to the Lamb.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

You're ridiculous. :loser: Paul wrote that Epistle. He's talking about the Gospel he received from the "Ascended Christ." Use your head.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 02:35 PM
You're ridiculous. :loser: Paul wrote that Epistle. He's talking about the Gospel he received from the "Ascended Christ." Use your head.

So you want only words from the ascended Christ?

Here are some words from the ascended Christ:

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus

Revelation 2:5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place-- unless you repent.

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.


Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 02:53 PM
I would have to lie to become saved according to faith alone. I would have to say I did not obey and search for God. I would have to say I did not humble myself as a little child. I would have to say I do not fear God. I would have to say I did not admit I was a sinner. I would have to say I did not confess all my sins and repent of them. I would have to say I did not forgive everyone who sinned against me. I would have to say I did not get married to obey. I would have to say I did not obey and stop doubting. I would have to say I did not stand firm and resist the devil. I would have to say I did not let the worries of this world cause me to fall away.

I would have to lie to be saved according to faith alone teachers.

I am not going to lie to be saved.

Totton Linnet
March 6th, 2016, 02:59 PM
I believe that James helps clear up any misunderstanding some may get from Paul's message. Works alone will not get us into heaven. No one can ever earn their place in God's Kingdom it is by God's Love. However, I see James pointing out to us that faith alone without a change in our lives is "dead."

Quite so....you cannot get so much as a rice paper betwixt James and Paul

serpentdove
March 6th, 2016, 06:08 PM
I believe that James helps clear up any misunderstanding some may get from Paul's message. Works alone will not get us into heaven. No one can ever earn their place in God's Kingdom it is by God's Love. However, I see James pointing out to us that faith alone without a change in our lives is "dead."
Right. It's faith; but, it's dead. :dead:


Quite so....you cannot get so much as a rice paper betwixt James and PaulYep.

"Paul spoke about the root of faith (Eph 2:8). James spoke about the fruit of faith (Jm 2:17-18)." ~ Adrian Rogers

serpentdove
March 6th, 2016, 06:11 PM
James says faith alone cannot save anyone.

The only http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif work you can do is to believe (Eph 2:8-9).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 08:02 PM
The only http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif work you can do is to believe (Eph 2:8-9).


Faith alone is DEAD. According to the Word of God, your faith is dead, and so is your preaching.

JJ84
March 7th, 2016, 08:36 AM
The only http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif work you can do is to believe (Eph 2:8-9).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

Why do Believers always stop at verse 9 in Ephesians 2?

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
So no we are not saved by our dirty works, verse 9, but when a person accept Jesus as Savior the Holy Spirit indwells us and brings forth His works in our life. These works or fruit are describe by Paul in Galatians 5:22-23. While Jesus speaks of them in Matthew 7:13-23.

Even the writer of Hebrews speak of this as the true sign of believers; 9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. 10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward His name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. Hebrews 6:9-10

Nothing I can do humanly speaking can save me. But when I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior the Holy Spirit will began a good work in me until the day of Jesus Christ, Philippians 1:6, that is producing His fruit in me.

serpentdove
March 7th, 2016, 08:53 AM
Faith alone is DEAD. According to the Word of God, your faith is dead...

:yawn: Everyone has faith is something or someone. Faith in Christ saves (Acts 5:14; 1 Tim. 4:12, Rom. 3:26, 27).

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

God's Truth
March 7th, 2016, 09:10 AM
:yawn: Everyone has faith is something or someone. Faith in Christ saves (Acts 5:14; 1 Tim. 4:12, Rom. 3:26, 27).



None of those scripture say your dead faith is the most important faith ever known.

The Word of God says your faith is dead.

Bright Raven
March 7th, 2016, 02:31 PM
Faith alone is DEAD. According to the Word of God, your faith is dead, and so is your preaching.

We are saved by grace through faith. You can not get around it. Ephesians 2:8-9

God's Truth
March 7th, 2016, 10:02 PM
We are saved by grace through faith. You can not get around it. Ephesians 2:8-9

Grace is that we do not have to clean ourselves.

Just read in Leviticus 15 all the things a person had to do after a woman’s period and after a man’s natural discharge.
There are things these people had to do, even the people who merely touched these people, or the people who sat where these people sat.

Leviticus 15:32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


Leviticus 4:12
that is, all the rest of the bull—he must take outside the camp to a place ceremonially clean, where the ashes are thrown, and burn it there in a wood fire on the ash heap.

Leviticus 5:2
“‘If anyone becomes aware that they are guilty—if they unwittingly touch anything ceremonially unclean (whether the carcass of an unclean animal, wild or domestic, or of any unclean creature that moves along the ground) and they are unaware that they have become unclean, but then they come to realize their guilt;

Leviticus 6:11
Then he is to take off these clothes and put on others, and carry the ashes outside the camp to a place that is ceremonially clean.

Leviticus 7:19
“‘Meat that touches anything ceremonially unclean must not be eaten; it must be burned up. As for other meat, anyone ceremonially clean may eat it.

Leviticus 10:14
But you and your sons and your daughters may eat the breast that was waved and the thigh that was presented. Eat them in a ceremonially clean place; they have been given to you and your children as your share of the Israelites’ fellowship offerings.

Leviticus 11:4
“‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.

Leviticus 12:2
“Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.

There are many more scriptures that I can post from the Old Testament.

God's Truth
March 7th, 2016, 10:18 PM
Grace is that we no longer have to clean ourselves. Grace is not that we no longer have to obey God.

Bright Raven
March 8th, 2016, 03:31 PM
Grace is that we do not have to clean ourselves.

Just read in Leviticus 15 all the things a person had to do after a woman’s period and after a man’s natural discharge.
There are things these people had to do, even the people who merely touched these people, or the people who sat where these people sat.

Leviticus 15:32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.


Leviticus 4:12
that is, all the rest of the bull—he must take outside the camp to a place ceremonially clean, where the ashes are thrown, and burn it there in a wood fire on the ash heap.

Leviticus 5:2
“‘If anyone becomes aware that they are guilty—if they unwittingly touch anything ceremonially unclean (whether the carcass of an unclean animal, wild or domestic, or of any unclean creature that moves along the ground) and they are unaware that they have become unclean, but then they come to realize their guilt;

Leviticus 6:11
Then he is to take off these clothes and put on others, and carry the ashes outside the camp to a place that is ceremonially clean.

Leviticus 7:19
“‘Meat that touches anything ceremonially unclean must not be eaten; it must be burned up. As for other meat, anyone ceremonially clean may eat it.

Leviticus 10:14
But you and your sons and your daughters may eat the breast that was waved and the thigh that was presented. Eat them in a ceremonially clean place; they have been given to you and your children as your share of the Israelites’ fellowship offerings.

Leviticus 11:4
“‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.

Leviticus 12:2
“Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.

There are many more scriptures that I can post from the Old Testament.You do not need to post anything from the Old Testament. We are no longer under the Law. We are under grace.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 02:38 AM
You do not need to post anything from the Old Testament. We are no longer under the Law. We are under grace.

Paul quotes the Old Testament many times.