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View Full Version : How Jesus Justified Ungodly Sinners and Reconciled the World Unto God



Robert Pate
March 4th, 2016, 10:00 AM
Many do not know or understand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.

"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.

Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.

When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.

beloved57
March 4th, 2016, 09:49 PM
Many do not know or underdstand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.

"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.

Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.

When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.

You teach salvation by works, by what a person does, which is a insult to Jesus Christ, a damnable heresy!

Bradley D
March 4th, 2016, 11:44 PM
So once the ungodly/sinner has received salvation how does that change their life?

jamie
March 5th, 2016, 06:14 AM
You teach salvation by works...


How so? How is the gift of salvation that Pate referred to a work?

It is a contradiction that work earns a gift. Your premise is nonsense.

beloved57
March 5th, 2016, 06:48 AM
How so? How is the gift of salvation that Pate referred to a work?

It is a contradiction that work earns a gift. Your premise is nonsense.

What do you mean how so ? I have been saying it for years, teaching that salvation is the result of what man does !

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 07:12 AM
Many do not know or understand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."



"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.



The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.
Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.




How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.
You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,




Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.
God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.



When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ,Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.
Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.

jamie
March 5th, 2016, 09:44 AM
What do you mean how so ? I have been saying it for years, teaching that salvation is the result of what man does !


Which is not what Pate said. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, why are you doing his work for him?

beloved57
March 5th, 2016, 09:47 AM
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.

Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,


God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.

Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.

Pate says it, you say it, pretty much everyone says it except one Nanja !

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 10:11 AM
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.

Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,


God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.

Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.

You don't have clue as to what the Gospel and justification by faith are about

beloved57
March 5th, 2016, 10:19 AM
You don't have clue as to what the Gospel and justification by faith are about
Neither of you do, since you both teach salvation by the works of man!

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 10:59 AM
You don't have clue as to what the Gospel and justification by faith are about

You are the one without a clue.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 11:02 AM
Which is not what Pate said. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, why are you doing his work for him?

Pate says we are saved by making sure we do not do one thing of obedience if we want to be saved.

beloved57 says we are saved by making sure we do not obey anything in anyway, not even believe.

They both teach nonsense and you support it.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 11:17 AM
Here is not the idiot wisdom of Pate and beloved57?


Attention everyone, the way to God is to make sure you do not obey Him in any way,

for if you do, you will be condemned.

The good news is that you do NOT have to obey,

and if you do, you will be sent to Hell.

This should keep you on your toes and in line.

Do not fear God, just fear obeying Him, and you will be on the right track.

It is the secret to salvation.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 11:22 AM
IN ADDITION,

If, after you are saved by being careful NOT to obey anything ever,

if you find after you are saved that you obey some things,

deny any of it, and announce that you cannot obey and that you are always a sinner.

If God should hear you that you obeyed, He will punish you with Hell for that obedience,

for obedience is not being obedient.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 11:27 AM
What is ignorance? Two people fighting over which obeyed God the least.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 11:58 AM
beloved57: I got saved by not obey anything God said, I did not believe or do anything

Pate: I got saved by believing, which is not obeying, because I was careful not to obey.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 12:15 PM
Pate says we are saved by making sure we do not do one thing of obedience if we want to be saved.

beloved57 says we are saved by making sure we do not obey anything in anyway, not even believe.

They both teach nonsense and you support it.


Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. You don't qualify.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 12:22 PM
Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. You don't qualify.

Jesus would not have saved me if I did not OBEY BY ADMITTING I was a sinner and then CONFESSING AND REPENTING OF THOSE SINS.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 01:09 PM
What is ignorance? Two people fighting over which obeyed God the least.

No one keeps the commandments, because... "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10

You must really hate Paul.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 03:05 PM
No one keeps the commandments, because... "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10

You must really hate Paul.

You do not understand Paul. That scripture is Paul quoting the Old Testament about no one is righteous and does not ever sin.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 03:15 PM
Paul never told anyone no one can or should obey God, as you teach.

You are slandering Paul.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 03:31 PM
Pate, it is not me who hates Paul, as you falsely claim, it is you who hates Paul, for you make Paul as one who goes against the scriptures.


Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him.

John 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit."

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Acts 22:12 "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 03:39 PM
Pate, it is not me who hates Paul, as you falsely claim, it is you who hates Paul, for you make Paul as one who goes against the scriptures.


Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him.

John 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit."

Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...

1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

Acts 22:12 "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people.


There is the righteousness of man and then there is the righteousness of God.

You probably can do the righteousness of man pretty good. But when it comes to the righteousness of God you fail something terrible, Romans 10:3.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 03:48 PM
There is the righteousness of man and then there is the righteousness of God.

You probably can do the righteousness of man pretty good. But when it comes to the righteousness of God you fail something terrible, Romans 10:3.

That scripture is an explanation of the JEWS and the ceremonial works they used to have to do to make themselves righteous before God---they would not except the NEW way to righteousness---they wanted to keep doing it themselves instead of relying on Jesus' blood doing it by faith.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 04:10 PM
That scripture is an explanation of the JEWS and the ceremonial works they used to have to do to make themselves righteous before God---they would not except the NEW way to righteousness---they wanted to keep doing it themselves instead of relying on Jesus' blood doing it by faith.

There is only one righteousness and that is the righteousness of Christ. You don't have it because you miss the mark, Romans 3:23-27.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 04:22 PM
There is only one righteousness and that is the righteousness of Christ. You don't have it because you miss the mark, Romans 3:23-27.

I have the righteousness of Christ because I admitted I was a sinner, and then I confessed and repented of my sins. I have faith that Jesus' blood washed away my sins.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 04:37 PM
I have the righteousness of Christ because I admitted I was a sinner, and then I confessed and repented of my sins. I have faith that Jesus' blood washed away my sins.

In the judgment the only thing that will be accepted is the righteousness of Christ.

God must see you "In Christ" His life, His death, His resurrection must be to your account, or you will disappear in a puff of smoke.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 04:45 PM
In the judgment the only thing that will be accepted is the righteousness of Christ.

God must see you "In Christ" His life, His death, His resurrection must be to your account, or you will disappear in a puff of smoke.

Anyone wanting to be saved must admit they are a sinner, confess their sins, and repent of them. They must believe that Jesus' blood washed away their sins.

If you do not obey Jesus, you do not have the Spirit and life.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2016, 04:55 PM
Anyone wanting to be saved must admit they are a sinner, confess their sins, and repent of them. They must believe that Jesus' blood washed away their sins.

If you do not obey Jesus, you do not have the Spirit and life.

If you don't have the righteousness of Christ to your account when you enter into the judgment, poof, gone in a puff of smoke.

God's Truth
March 5th, 2016, 05:20 PM
If you don't have the righteousness of Christ to your account when you enter into the judgment, poof, gone in a puff of smoke.

We receive the righteousness of Christ when we have faith that his blood cleans us of the sins we committed.

Robert Pate
March 6th, 2016, 09:15 AM
What is ignorance? Two people fighting over which obeyed God the least.

You are under the law and you will be judged by the law.

You seem to think that you have become good enough. Just like the Pharisees.

You can never become good enough because you are a sinner, the worst kind of a sinner.

jamie
March 6th, 2016, 09:26 AM
...because... "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10


Why do you quote Paul's quote of David out of context?

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 09:47 AM
You are under the law and you will be judged by the law.

Just as Paul says, I am under Christ's law.


1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.



You seem to think that you have become good enough. Just like the Pharisees.

The Pharisees did not admit to being sinners. Jesus never would have saved me if I did not admit to being a sinner.



Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)


Did you read that? See, you are the one like the Pharisees, for you preach we do not have to repent of our sins to be saved, just like the Pharisees, for they did not repent and be baptized.




You can never become good enough because you are a sinner, the worst kind of a sinner.

We have to admit we are sinners and repent of those sins. Repenting of sins means to stop doing those sins, and it must be proven.

Paul taught the same thing John the baptizer taught---

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

John the baptizer---

Luke 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Robert Pate
March 6th, 2016, 06:40 PM
Just as Paul says, I am under Christ's law.


1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.



The Pharisees did not admit to being sinners. Jesus never would have saved me if I did not admit to being a sinner.



Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)


Did you read that? See, you are the one like the Pharisees, for you preach we do not have to repent of our sins to be saved, just like the Pharisees, for they did not repent and be baptized.



We have to admit we are sinners and repent of those sins. Repenting of sins means to stop doing those sins, and it must be proven.

Paul taught the same thing John the baptizer taught---

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

John the baptizer---

Luke 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.


We never stop being sinners. The Holy Spirt does not make you holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will make you aware of the fact that you are a sinner, Romans 7:7.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 07:04 PM
We never stop being sinners.

Paul knew the saved were holy people

Romans 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Ephesians 3:18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,

...and many more.


I cannot find scripture where Paul calls us the sinners in Christ.

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 07:13 PM
The Holy Spirt does not make you holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will make you aware of the fact that you are a sinner, Romans 7:7.

I just proved to you with many scriptures that we are called Holy people.

You said the Holy Spirit does not make us holy. Who do you think made us holy?!


Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

God's Truth
March 6th, 2016, 07:15 PM
Pate, if you are not holy, then Jesus is ashamed to call you a brother.

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

jamie
March 6th, 2016, 08:24 PM
We never stop being sinners. The Holy Spirt does not make you holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will make you aware of the fact that you are a sinner, Romans 7:7.


Why do you not believe Jesus died for sin?

Robert Pate
March 7th, 2016, 08:41 AM
Pate, if you are not holy, then Jesus is ashamed to call you a brother.

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Robert Pate
March 7th, 2016, 08:44 AM
I just proved to you with many scriptures that we are called Holy people.

You said the Holy Spirit does not make us holy. Who do you think made us holy?!


Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,


Spiritually we are perfect and complete in Christ.

Physically we are sinners.

God's Truth
March 7th, 2016, 08:44 AM
God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You keep trying to nullify scripture with scripture.

YOU said the Holy Spirit does NOT make us holy.

I gave you many scriptures that say the Holy Spirit makes us holy.

Instead of you admitting you were wrong and were taught something, you instead give another scripture that has nothing to do with what you said earlier.

Robert Pate
March 7th, 2016, 08:49 AM
You keep trying to nullify scripture with scripture.

YOU said the Holy Spirit does NOT make us holy.

I gave you many scriptures that say the Holy Spirit makes us holy.

Instead of you admitting you were wrong and were taught something, you instead give another scripture that has nothing to do with what you said earlier.

God's law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12.

Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin?

Don't deceive yourself, 1 John 1:8.

God's Truth
March 7th, 2016, 08:52 AM
God's law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12.

Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin?

Don't deceive yourself, 1 John 1:8.

You do not even grasp that 1 John 1:8 is about how to become saved.

You cannot grasp the truth because someone else has a grasp on you.

Robert Pate
March 8th, 2016, 02:36 PM
You do not even grasp that 1 John 1:8 is about how to become saved.

You cannot grasp the truth because someone else has a grasp on you.

1 John 1:8 is not about how to become saved.

The "WE" are Christians.

God's Truth
March 8th, 2016, 02:37 PM
1 John 1:8 is not about how to become saved.

The "WE" are Christians.

They are Christians, and they never had the truth in them if they did not admit they were sinners and repent of those sins.

Bright Raven
March 8th, 2016, 03:26 PM
They are Christians, and they never had the truth in them if they did not admit they were sinners and repent of those sins.
Could you explain this a little more. It would seem if they never had the truth they would not be Christian

Robert Pate
March 8th, 2016, 04:01 PM
They are Christians, and they never had the truth in them if they did not admit they were sinners and repent of those sins.

You don't believe John, nor do you believe Paul.

Me thinks you is an unbeliever.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 02:34 AM
Could you explain this a little more. It would seem if they never had the truth they would not be Christian

John is saying that the way to salvation is to admit you are a sinner.

Can you imagine, people getting together with some of the saved people, saying they are too saved, but they never even admitted they were sinners?

John says then the truth is not in us. You believe in OSAS, yet you want this scripture to be about losing your salvation? It is about being saved in the first place, or else I would say it is about losing one's salvation. If the truth is not in someone, how do they have the Spirit of Truth in them? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

God's Truth
March 13th, 2016, 02:37 AM
You don't believe John, nor do you believe Paul.

Me thinks you is an unbeliever.

I believe John and Paul so much so, I know that they preach the same gospel as Jesus Christ.

Robert Pate
March 14th, 2016, 10:40 AM
I believe John and Paul so much so, I know that they preach the same gospel as Jesus Christ.

No you don't. You think that they are liars.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 02:28 AM
No you don't. You think that they are liars.

Paul taught the same thing that John the baptizer taught.

Paul---

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


John the baptizer---

Matthew 3:8 Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance,

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 02:33 AM
Many do not know or understand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.

"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.

Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.

When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.

Jesus justified the ungodly is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised in the flesh like the Jews did.

The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not follow the purification works the Jews followed.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Robert Pate
March 25th, 2016, 07:51 AM
I believe John and Paul so much so, I know that they preach the same gospel as Jesus Christ.

You don't know what the Gospel is.

Jesus preached the Kingdom Gospel. He did not preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

He left the preaching of the Gospel up to the apostles.

God's Truth
March 25th, 2016, 11:19 AM
You don't know what the Gospel is.

Jesus preached the Kingdom Gospel. He did not preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

He left the preaching of the Gospel up to the apostles.

You are badly mistaken.

How do you ever get that Jesus did not preach the everlasting gospel?

Robert Pate
March 25th, 2016, 12:29 PM
You are badly mistaken.

How do you ever get that Jesus did not preach the everlasting gospel?

Most of your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

How does God justify the ungodly? You don't know do you?

beloved57
March 26th, 2016, 01:32 AM
Most of your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

How does God justify the ungodly? You don't know do you?

Both of you teach the heresy of man being saved by what he does, both of you promote a religion of the works of man saves you !

beloved57
March 26th, 2016, 01:34 AM
You don't know what the Gospel is.

Jesus preached the Kingdom Gospel. He did not preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

He left the preaching of the Gospel up to the apostles.

Who is the world in 2 Cor 5:19 ? Many in the world we live in are under Gods wrath and condemnation Jn 3:18,36 and so no reconciled to God !

God's Truth
March 26th, 2016, 08:40 AM
Most of your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

How does God justify the ungodly? You don't know do you?

God justifies the ungodly when they come to Him through Jesus' blood, when they repent of their sins.

God reconciling the world to Him is about EVERYONE must come to Him through Jesus.

That is what it means.