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meshak
February 25th, 2016, 08:43 AM
Jesus' teachings and commands are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament.

He explains His teachings perfectly in His Word. If you are sincerely seeking to know His word, you should not be asking about it in the forums. I urge you to learn from Him directly. He is the perfect teacher of His salvation and His teachings.

Those books are short books and repeat many of the same things.

His word is not spread much to the world and to many churches. That's why I am doing this.

If we read or know what is written in those books, there is not going to be much chaos in Christian community.

It is so bad, and will be worse and worse as time comes near to the end because we disregard His Word.

I you want to be in Jesus' side or inherit God's kingdom, you need to know what He teaches and take heed what He says, and put into practice.

blessings.

meshak
February 25th, 2016, 09:47 AM
Hello?

meshak
February 25th, 2016, 09:49 AM
It is so strange that when I talk about Jesus' word, I hardly get any amen.

Ben Masada
February 25th, 2016, 10:24 AM
It is so strange that when I talk about Jesus' word, I hardly get any amen.

Perhaps, people are waking up to the fact that Jesus' words are not in the gospel of Paul aka the NT. Have you considered that possibility, Meshak? Try the Tanach. Didn't he say that the road to salvation is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)That's the legitimate Jewish way.

Nick M
February 25th, 2016, 10:28 AM
Matthew 23

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

Meshak, do you keep Matthew 23? "Jesus" says to go the temple and take your instruction there and do and observe all they say to do.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 25th, 2016, 10:49 AM
It is so strange that when I talk about Jesus' word, I hardly get any amen.

That's because you don't preach the "True Gospel."

meshak
February 25th, 2016, 01:29 PM
Perhaps, people are waking up to the fact that Jesus' words are not in the gospel of Paul aka the NT. Have you considered that possibility, Meshak? Try the Tanach. Didn't he say that the road to salvation is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)That's the legitimate Jewish way.

Sorry Ben.

Christians name came from Jesus Christ. Christianity is all about Jesus and His word.

We already talked about it.

No one can convince me otherwise.

Jesus' teachings are not popular even among so called "Christians".

Jesus teaches us to give up worldly way of living, and this is hard to accept for most of us.

heir
February 25th, 2016, 01:33 PM
Jesus' teachings and commands are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament. when He was sent, but unto whom?
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


He explains His teachings perfectly in His Word. If you are sincerely seeking to know His word, you should not be asking about it in the forums. I urge you to learn from Him directly. He is the perfect teacher of His salvation and His teachings. You will find what God hath done and is doing in the form of sound words that we have heard of Paul (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) that was given by revelation of the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 26:16 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV, 2 Corinthians 12:1 KJV), which of course meshak rejects.

meshak
February 25th, 2016, 01:50 PM
Jesus teaches too many inconvenient and politically incorrect things.

ClimateSanity
February 25th, 2016, 01:52 PM
Sorry Ben.

Christians name came from Jesus Christ. Christianity is all about Jesus and His word.

We already talked about it.

No one can convince me otherwise.

Jesus' teachings are not popular even among so called "Christians".

Jesus teaches us to give up worldly way of living, and this is hard to accept for most of us.

Jesus's teachings are in the Tanach as Ben said. The bible just quotes his clarifications where the Tanach went astray.

Nick M
February 25th, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jesus teaches too many inconvenient and politically incorrect things.

Like this?

Matthew 23

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

Jacob
February 25th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Jesus's teachings are in the Tanach as Ben said. The bible just quotes his clarifications where the Tanach went astray.

I don't know what you are talking about. Can you clarify? Meaning, what are you trying to say and how do you believe the Tanach went astray (I don't)? I am asking for your benefit in thinking about it. I believe God's instruction begins with the Torah and continues with the rest of the Tanach or TaNaKh (Torah - Law, Nevi'im - Prophets, Ketuvim - Writings).

The teachings of Jesus are found in the Bible, specifically in the New Testament beginning with the four Gospel accounts Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

meshak
February 25th, 2016, 07:10 PM
I have quoted Jesus' word many times but it's worth repeating.

Here they are:

Matt 5:3-12
New International Version (NIV)
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

more to come.

Nick M
February 25th, 2016, 07:50 PM
Matthew 23

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

john w
February 25th, 2016, 08:27 PM
Do it, Mess-hack

"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."


The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to sell it all:

Command given: Mt. 19:21 KJV; Mk. 10:21 KJV;Luke 12:33 KJV,Luke 18:22 KJV
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27 KJV;Mk. 10:28 KJV;Luke 5:11 KJV, Luke 18:28 KJV; Acts 2:44-45 KJV, Acts 4:32-34 KJV

Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV

Do you have "...all things common..."?: Acts 2:44 KJV, Acts 4:32-34 KJV, Acts 3:6 KJV

Do you offer animal sacrifices? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you tithe over 33%(the tithe was not just 10%) of your assets(the tithe was on all your assets, not just your income) to the Levitical priesthood? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you go to Jerusalem on the feast of Pentecost, Passover, and Tabernacles?(if you are a male, this is a requirement of the Law). The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How about the 613 commandments of the law(not just 10-there were 613). Do you keep them all?The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How many have you broken? The list goes on and on.

ClimateSanity
February 25th, 2016, 08:38 PM
That's great but it does nothing if you can't explain it or worse, not understand it yourself. Do you realize we all have Bibles? Do you realize most of us have read that passage up to a hundred times? Why do you think we need it here on the screen? You are not the only one who has ever read the bible.

heir
February 25th, 2016, 10:33 PM
I don't know what you are talking about. Can you clarify? Meaning, what are you trying to say and how do you believe the Tanach went astray (I don't)? I am asking for your benefit in thinking about it. I believe God's instruction begins with the Torah and continues with the rest of the Tanach or TaNaKh (Torah - Law, Nevi'im - Prophets, Ketuvim - Writings).

The teachings of Jesus are found in the Bible, specifically in the New Testament beginning with the four Gospel accounts Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.We live in the but now where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested (Romans 3:21-22 KJV. You can read about it in the form of sound words (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) of Romans through Philemon.

patrick jane
February 25th, 2016, 11:18 PM
I have quoted Jesus' word many times but it's worth repeating.

Here they are:

Matt 5:3-12
New International Version (NIV)

You copied that out of a book
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

more to come.

You copied that out of a book

Elia
February 25th, 2016, 11:41 PM
[B]I you want to be in Jesus' side or inherit God's kingdom, you need to know what He teaches and take heed what He says, and put into practice.

Bs"d

Why is it that no Christian does what he says??

Jacob
February 26th, 2016, 02:27 AM
We live in the but now where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested (Romans 3:21-22 KJV. You can read about it in the form of sound words (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) of Romans through Philemon.
I can share these verses which after seeing your response may be telling of my approach. I also have a recently started thread.

Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:21 NASB - 21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 NASB - 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11 NASB - 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

God's commands in Jesus and the coming of the new covenant. (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116707-God-s-commands-in-Jesus-and-the-coming-of-the-new-covenant)

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:47 AM
Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

yes, amen.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:48 AM
Bs"d

Why is it that no Christian does what he says??

I did not say no Christians. My comments are general statements.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:49 AM
You copied that out of a book

Of course, this is Jesus' word.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 08:25 AM
You copied that out of a book


And more of them are coming:)

You need to appreciate His word, dude.

Who is your Lord or Master?

Ben Masada
February 26th, 2016, 09:14 AM
Jesus's teachings are in the Tanach as Ben said. The bible just quotes his clarifications where the Tanach went astray.

Jesus teaching are in the Tanach because he was a Jew and, the teaching words of a Jew, Rabbi or not, is in the Tanach.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 02:19 PM
divorce
Matt 5:31-32
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

turbosixx
February 26th, 2016, 03:35 PM
Jesus' teachings and commands are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament.


I would suggest to you that Jesus’ words are the entire NT and not just in the gospels. Consider these passages.

Jesus talking to the 12:
John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

An example of the Holy Spirit telling Peter what to say:
Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people,

Paul tells us he heard the gospel from Jesus himself:
Gal. 1:11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Clete
February 26th, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jesus' teachings and commands are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament.

He explains His teachings perfectly in His Word. If you are sincerely seeking to know His word, you should not be asking about it in the forums. I urge you to learn from Him directly. He is the perfect teacher of His salvation and His teachings.

Those books are short books and repeat many of the same things.

His word is not spread much to the world and to many churches. That's why I am doing this.

If we read or know what is written in those books, there is not going to be much chaos in Christian community.

It is so bad, and will be worse and worse as time comes near to the end because we disregard His Word.

I you want to be in Jesus' side or inherit God's kingdom, you need to know what He teaches and take heed what He says, and put into practice.

blessings.
You'd have made a good Jew.

Zeke
February 26th, 2016, 04:43 PM
Kind of a oxymoron when Luke 17:20-21 is pondered with the instructions in Matthew 23 Nick, Galatians 4:23-28 sheds the right intent as to "where" this is to be applied Galatians 1:12.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 05:05 PM
You'd have made a good Jew.

Jews did not accept Jesus as Christ, and Jesus says He is the Christ. What are you talking about?

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 05:07 PM
I would suggest to you that Jesus’ words are the entire NT and not just in the gospels.

Jesus word is simple and clear. Everyone else is just harmonizing with Jesus' word. He is the Basic, center.

If you understand Jesus' word, you should not have any problem what the rest of the books say.

We should be reading the Bible according to what Jesus says, not the other way around.

Jacob
February 26th, 2016, 05:08 PM
Jews did not accept Jesus as Christ, and Jesus says He is the Christ. What are you talking about?
Not all Jews do, but some Jews do. A person being a Jew does not mean they don't accept Jesus as the Christ.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Not all Jews do, but some Jews do. A person being a Jew does not mean they don't accept Jesus as the Christ.

Of course, His apostles were all Jews. But majority did not accept Him.

Jacob
February 26th, 2016, 05:23 PM
Of course, His apostles were all Jews. But majority did not accept Him.If you are talking about the early church, it was mostly or entirely made up of Jews. I have said before that the early church was entirely Jewish. I am meaning before Gentiles became a part of the church. Then there is the question of when the church began.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 05:26 PM
If you are talking about the early church, it was mostly or entirely made up of Jews. I have said before that the early church was entirely Jewish. I am meaning before Gentiles became a part of the church. Then there is the question of when the church began.

Gentiles was included in early churches.

Why do you think Jesus said "go therefor make disciples of all nations... "?

It is not so hard to understand what Jesus says here.

turbosixx
February 26th, 2016, 05:42 PM
Jesus word is simple and clear. Everyone else is just harmonizing with Jesus' word. He is the Basic, center.

If you understand Jesus' word, you should not have any problem what the rest of the books say.

We should be reading the Bible according to what Jesus says, not the other way around.

Yes, absolutely Jesus is the foundation but what Jesus spoke while on the earth is not all he had to say. That’s why he tells the apostles “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now”. Who does he say is going to tell them the “many more things”? Jn. 16:13

His DBR was going to change everything and he couldn’t implement the change until after his DBR. How much did he say after his DBR, not much but the Holy Spirit did it for him in proclaiming the gospel through the apostles.

Jacob
February 26th, 2016, 05:48 PM
Gentiles was included in early churches.

Why do you think Jesus said "go therefor make disciples of all nations... "?

It is not so hard to understand what Jesus says here.I have no reason to object to Gentiles among the churches. The gospel was to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:16 NASB - 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The word Gentiles means nations as I understand it. It is the nations other than Israel. Often people just say a Gentile or the Gentiles are non-Jews.

The gospel was for the Jew first. But it was not to stay with the Jews only, and it did not stay with Jews only. Gentiles also believed.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:21 PM
I have no reason to object to Gentiles among the churches. The gospel was to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

No one is objecting it.




The word Gentiles means nations as I understand it. It is the nations other than Israel. Often people just say a Gentile or the Gentiles are non-Jews.

Of course.


The gospel was for the Jew first. But it was not to stay with the Jews only, and it did not stay with Jews only. Gentiles also believed.
No one is objecting it.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:27 PM
Yes, absolutely Jesus is the foundation but what Jesus spoke while on the earth is not all he had to say. That’s why he tells the apostles “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now”. Who does he say is going to tell them the “many more things”? Jn. 16:13

His DBR was going to change everything and he couldn’t implement the change until after his DBR. How much did he say after his DBR, not much but the Holy Spirit did it for him in proclaiming the gospel through the apostles.

I don't believe Jesus left anything to teach to His 12 apostles. He waited the last minute to teach everything they had to know because they did not understand at the beginning.

Jacob
February 26th, 2016, 07:28 PM
No one is objecting it.




Of course.


No one is objecting it.
If we are talking about the church and the gospel it was the Jew first. You are right that Gentiles are a part of the churches. Gentiles were included in the churches.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:31 PM
If we are talking about the church and the gospel it was the Jew first. You are right that Gentiles are a part of the churches. Gentiles were included in the churches.

Why do you repeat the same thing? I already said no one is objecting it. But they did not wait long to preach to the gentile.

Early church is not just a few years.

meshak
February 26th, 2016, 07:49 PM
This is my opinion but I would say a hundred years of beginning of church is still early Christianity.

I certainly don't think they waited to reach out to gentile 50 years.

They were already reaching out to them when they were alive.

God's Truth
February 26th, 2016, 07:54 PM
Jesus' teachings and commands are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament.

He explains His teachings perfectly in His Word. If you are sincerely seeking to know His word, you should not be asking about it in the forums. I urge you to learn from Him directly. He is the perfect teacher of His salvation and His teachings.

Those books are short books and repeat many of the same things.

His word is not spread much to the world and to many churches. That's why I am doing this.

If we read or know what is written in those books, there is not going to be much chaos in Christian community.

It is so bad, and will be worse and worse as time comes near to the end because we disregard His Word.

I you want to be in Jesus' side or inherit God's kingdom, you need to know what He teaches and take heed what He says, and put into practice.

blessings.

How do you not recognize Peter, Paul, John, and Jude's words as Jesus' words?

It is all God's Word and God's Word is Jesus Christ.

turbosixx
February 27th, 2016, 06:22 AM
I don't believe Jesus left anything to teach to His 12 apostles. He waited the last minute to teach everything they had to know because they did not understand at the beginning.

I would agree with you but here is my problem. In John 16 Jesus says he has more to say but the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth, not him. Do you know of a scripture that tells us Jesus taught everything to the 12?

Here is my concern. The red letters are not more important than the black, all scripture is inspired by God.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 07:16 AM
all scripture is inspired by God.

there are many not so godly things in the bible. We ought to learn from those bad example and not to do them.

We ought to read the Bible which ones are important and not so important.

We ought to fix our eyes on Jesus' word and we will not go far from Him.

The rest is supposed to help up to understand what Jesus said.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jews did not accept Jesus as Christ, and Jesus says He is the Christ. What are you talking about?

Were Peter, James and John (i.e. the Twelve) and all of their converts not Jews?

You're stuck in the previous dispensation. Jesus was a Jew, went to the Jews and preached to the Jews a Jewish Kingdom gospel which the nation as a whole rejected but which the Twelve and their converts accepted and continued to preach and practice until their death.

It is Paul's words, which he received and by revelation from the risen Christ and spoke by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that is the center of Christianity.

Jesus taught the Law which was a shadow of things to come. Paul's gospel is where salvation is found and nowhere else.

Resting in Him,
Clete

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 07:47 AM
Were Peter, James and John (i.e. the Twelve) and all of their converts not Jews?

You're stuck in the previous dispensation. Jesus was a Jew, went to the Jews and preached to the Jews a Jewish Kingdom gospel which the nation as a whole rejected but which the Twelve and their converts accepted and continued to preach and practice until their death.

It is Paul's words, which he received and by revelation from the risen Christ and spoke by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that is the center of Christianity.

Jesus taught the Law which was a shadow of things to come. Paul's gospel is where salvation is found and nowhere else.

Resting in Him,
Clete

You are certainly have right to your opinion.

We don't seem to be following the same path.

Jesus says He did not comedown to abolish the law but fulfill it. Jesus also says to follow Him. He followed the law and we ought to follow His example. Pharisees thought they were following the law but they did not.

So if we take heed of what Jesus says, we will not follow bad example of God's people.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 07:49 AM
Jesus pointed out many of the things God's people were doing.

That's what He means by "fulfilling" by correcting what they were doing.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 07:52 AM
You never listen to anyone but yourself do you?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 08:42 AM
It seems to me many of you indicating that His followers do not have to observe what Jesus says or commands.

It is just absurd, to say the least.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 12:53 PM
You are certainly have right to your opinion.

We don't seem to be following the same path.

Jesus says He did not comedown to abolish the law but fulfill it. Jesus also says to follow Him. He followed the law and we ought to follow His example. Pharisees thought they were following the law but they did not.

So if we take heed of what Jesus says, we will not follow bad example of God's people.
As I said, you'd have made a good Jew.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 12:59 PM
It seems to me many of you indicating that His followers do not have to observe what Jesus says or commands.

It is just absurd, to say the least.
I have a question that you won't have an answer for...

Why Paul?

Jesus spent years teaching his disciples the gospel and told them to go to the whole world teaching that gospel and were given authority to act in His absence even to the point of forgiving people's sins (or not). The Apostles chose Matthias to take Judas' position and he was endorsed by God Himself when the Holy Spirit indwelt all twelve of the Apostles (Acts 1 & 2).

So we have Twelve apostles all of whom are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and who have been given a world wide "Great Commission". So....

WHY PAUL?

Where is the need for a thirteenth Apostle?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 01:54 PM
Where is the need for a thirteenth Apostle?

Jesus gave commission to His apostles before Paul joined.

I don't believe Jesus gave incomplete message to them.

Jesus is perfect Teacher. He told them not let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

That's all I have to say.

good day.

john w
February 27th, 2016, 01:59 PM
Jesus gave commission to His apostles before Paul joined.

I don't believe Jesus gave incomplete message to them.

Jesus is perfect Teacher. He told them not let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

That's all I have to say.

good day.

Sell all you have.

Good day to you, sir.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jesus gave commission to His apostles before Paul joined.

I don't believe Jesus gave incomplete message to them.

Jesus is perfect Teacher. He told them not let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

That's all I have to say.

good day.
As I said, you have no answer to the question.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 02:27 PM
As I said, you have no answer to the question.

I do but you just don't like it.

good day.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 02:28 PM
Where is the need for a thirteenth apostle?

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 02:30 PM
You never stated your answer. I will ask again..pay attention this time.

Where is the need for a thirteenth apostle?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 02:31 PM
Many of you don't seem to trust that Jesus is perfect Teacher and gave perfect teachings or instructions to His followers.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 02:33 PM
We all have Bibles and can read it ourselves. Do you have some point to make?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 03:56 PM
If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

think about it, friends.

Jesus is the Lord.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 04:04 PM
If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

think about it, friends.

Jesus is the Lord.

You have stated that, you believe Paul is an anti-Christ. Enough said.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 04:13 PM
We should be reading the Bible according to what Jesus says, not the other way around.

What does; "Not the other way around" mean?

john w
February 27th, 2016, 04:13 PM
If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

think about it, friends.

Jesus is the Lord.

Sell all you have. Good day to you, sir.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 04:16 PM
I do but you just don't like it.

good day.

You have no answer at all and you know it. If you had one you'd state it plainly.

Simply stating that Paul came in after the twelve is no answer, its just a restatement of the premise of the question.

The question is WHY Paul, not WHEN Paul! Everyone knows that Paul came after the twelve! DUH!

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 04:16 PM
divorce
Matt 5:31-32
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Copy and paste something the Apostle Paul said?

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 04:17 PM
Where is the need for a thirteenth apostle?

Are you asking me to answer or meshak?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 04:17 PM
You have no answer at all and you know it. If you had one you'd state it plainly.

If you think that simply stating that Paul came in after the twelve that's no answer, its just a restatement of the premise of the question.

The answer is WHY Paul, not WHEN Paul! Everyone knows that Paul came after the twelve! DUH!

suit yourself, good day.

turbosixx
February 27th, 2016, 04:18 PM
Where is the need for a thirteenth apostle?

To replace Judas, Matthias.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 04:19 PM
You have no answer at all and you know it. If you had one you'd state it plainly.

If you think that simply stating that Paul came in after the twelve that's no answer, its just a restatement of the premise of the question.

The answer is WHY Paul, not WHEN Paul! Everyone knows that Paul came after the twelve! DUH!

If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

Clete
February 27th, 2016, 04:20 PM
Many of you don't seem to trust that Jesus is perfect Teacher and gave perfect teachings or instructions to His followers.

Jesus taught Paul the gospel and told the twelve to keep their mouth's shut about his resurrection until after it happened. :think:

I wonder what gospel Jesus was teaching all that time?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 04:22 PM
Jesus taught Paul the gospel and told the twelve to keep their mouth's shut about his resurrection until after it happened. :think:

I wonder what gospel Jesus was teaching all that time?


If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 04:24 PM
Jesus gave commission to His apostles before Paul joined.

I don't believe Jesus gave incomplete message to them.

Jesus is perfect Teacher. He told them not let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

That's all I have to say.

good day.

You also said that, Paul was an anti-Christ.

steko
February 27th, 2016, 04:30 PM
If you come up with the idea that you don't need to follow Jesus' teachings by reading Paul's instruction, there is something awfully wrong.

The Lord Jesus' teachings to the Apostle Paul for us Gentiles are the Lord Jesus' teachings.

Jesus is the LORD.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 05:28 PM
If you can show where Jesus was teaching anything to anyone other than the lost sheep of the house of Israel, please feel free to show us.

Bright Raven
February 27th, 2016, 05:45 PM
I believe that your OP is stated incorrectly. I believe that the center of Christianity is the Cross. Without it there is no Christianity.

2 Corinthians 5:21 New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

The divine exchange is everything. It was the purpose for His coming that we might be brought back into right relationship with the Father.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 06:15 PM
The Lord Jesus' teachings to the Apostle Paul for us Gentiles are the Lord Jesus' teachings.

Jesus is the LORD.

Jesus says to follow Him and He gave many teachings and commands. This fact you guys are dismissing or disregarding.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 06:18 PM
Jesus says to follow Him and He gave many teachings and commands. This fact you guys are dismissing or disregarding.
Did you know that accusing someone of something without evidence is bearing false witness? What would Jesus have to say about that?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 06:23 PM
I would like to add that Jesus gave commands before Paul joined.

Bright Raven
February 27th, 2016, 06:47 PM
Jesus says to follow Him and He gave many teachings and commands. This fact you guys are dismissing or disregarding.
You need to come to the realization that Paul is a very important figure in the New Testament Thirteen Books were written by this Apostle of the faith. His teachings come from direct revelation from Jesus Christ. Do you understand that? That when Paul is speaking it is as though Jesus is speaking.

Galatians 1:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

ClimateSanity
February 27th, 2016, 06:52 PM
I would like to add that Jesus gave commands before Paul joined.

And then be gave more commands to Paul. Are his later commands worth nothing since he gave them after his first commands?

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 08:58 PM
Why do you repeat the same thing? I already said no one is objecting it. But they did not wait long to preach to the gentile.

Early church is not just a few years.
The first believers were Jewish is how I understand it. This was the church, including those who were brought in on Shavuot. Gentiles came to know the truth after this.

When did the church start? When was the beginning of the church?

What is the early church and when was it?

On Shavuot the Spirit was poured out. Jesus spoke of the church before this. So when was the beginning of the church and when did the church start?

6days
February 27th, 2016, 09:06 PM
I believe that your OP is stated incorrectly. I believe that the center of Christianity is the Cross. Without it there is no Christianity.
Agree.
Jesus word's are important.... But not more so than 'God's Word'... Genesis to Revelation.

Danoh
February 27th, 2016, 09:23 PM
What does; "Not the other way around" mean?

Lol - not Jesus according to what the Bible says...

Danoh
February 27th, 2016, 09:44 PM
Once, while attempting to share the Apostle Paul's distinctive ministry with someone who professed being a Believer, at one point they said to me "well Paul was a Roman."

I knew right then and there I was dealing with a simpleton- someone who reads the passages, gets their own ideas about what the passages are talking about; that feels right to them; and they haven't a clue as to the difference between words and how to get at their intended sense.

All they "know" is that "this feels right, and o how I love Jesus..."

I sincerely doubt all such types are up to no good, though.

Rather, they are, simply...just plain stupid.

There is no getting around that with some.

They are simpletons.

Perhaps this was why Paul gloried when fools preached Christ; his knowing that the more astute hearers of such babble would be able to make out on their own just fine.

More than one on here has come out from under a fool of a teacher.

Said teacher's damage only impact those of like fool headedness to begin with.

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

patrick jane
February 27th, 2016, 09:55 PM
Rather, they are, simply...just plain stupid.

There is no getting around that with some.

They are simpletons.



Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

pretense - Who are you going off on now dane oh ?

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 10:46 PM
Agree.
Jesus word's are important.... But not more so than 'God's Word'... Genesis to Revelation.

Wow, and you call yourself Jesus' follower?

Jesus explained about what the Bible is all about.

and you don't trust Jesus' word.

just amazing.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 10:49 PM
When did the church start?

church started as soon Jesus left the earth.

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 10:52 PM
church started as soon Jesus left the earth.
Jesus spoke with Peter about the church before this.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 10:56 PM
Jesus spoke with Peter about the church before this.

It does not going to change the fact that the church did not start before Jesus left.

patrick jane
February 27th, 2016, 11:01 PM
It does not going to change the fact that the church did not start before Jesus left.
Meshak, do you know that Jesus said more after He left ? He told it to Paul, a chosen vessel for Christ.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:04 PM
Meshak, do you know that Jesus said more after He left ? He told it to Paul, a chosen vessel for Christ.

It will not change the fact that Jesus gave all instructions to His apostles how to evangelize to the world.

He is the perfect teacher of His own salvation.

6days
February 27th, 2016, 11:05 PM
oops

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:07 PM
It does not going to change the fact that the church did not start before Jesus left.
Do you believe the church started with Jesus? He had disciples, including Peter and the other apostles. He died, was buried, rose from the dead, and appeared to many. Jesus ascended shortly before Shavuot.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:08 PM
Yes my friend.... I call myself a follower of Jesus.
Perhaps, I just stated things poorly. Or, maybe we just disagree.
I think the whole Bible is God's Word. The writings of Paul, John, Moses, Luke and others are all 'God breathed' inspired scripture.

I am talking about what Jesus taught to the world.

He explained about whole bible what is all about.

He is the perfect Teacher about His Father and Himself. The Bible is all about His Father and Jesus and their teachings.

6days
February 27th, 2016, 11:09 PM
Wow, and you call yourself Jesus' follower?

Jesus explained about what the Bible is all about.

and you don't trust Jesus' word.

just amazing.Yes my friend.... I call myself a follower of Jesus.
Perhaps, I just stated things poorly. Or, maybe we just disagree.
I think the whole Bible is God's Word. The writings of Paul, John, Moses, Luke and others are all 'God breathed' inspired scripture.

patrick jane
February 27th, 2016, 11:10 PM
I am talking about what Jesus taught to the world.

He explained about whole bible what is all about.

He is the perfect Teacher about His Father and Himself. The Bible is all about His Father and Jesus and their teachings.
Tell us of Jesus' teachings. Name some

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:11 PM
Do you believe the church started with Jesus?

He gave instruction about it. Of course He is the initiator. Without His instruction there is no church. Jesus is the Head of Church.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:14 PM
Tell us of Jesus' teachings. Name some

I already told you, they are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

They are not long books, read them. He will tell you what He teaches.

I will not copy and paste the whole books for you.

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:22 PM
He gave instruction about it. Of course He is the initiator. Without His instruction there is no church. Jesus is the Head of Church.
Do you believe the church began on Shavuot (Pentecost)?

More were added.

Acts 2:41 NASB - 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Were those who received the Spirit already believers or did the church begin when they did? That is my question and I don't know your answer. I realize your answer may not satisfy me, but now you know what I mean by early church (Shavuot or earlier, from Jesus and Peter and the other apostles and disciples) or the beginning or start of the church. Others believe early church means first century or the like.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:23 PM
Ok, this is for readers of this thread:

Jesus' teachings are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament.

they are similar and short books.

Jesus explained how OT people went wrong disobeying God, in general. And made it clear what Bible is all about. He sums up saying our whole duty is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

blessings.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:26 PM
Do you believe the church began on Shavuot (Pentecost)?

what does this have to do with OP?

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:28 PM
what does this have to do with OP?

Not as much as if Jesus was the start of the church, and the head of the church, which we agree on.

meshak
February 27th, 2016, 11:31 PM
Not as much as if Jesus was the start of the church, and the head of the church, which we agree on.

Jesus it the head of the church, that's why His followers ought to take heed of what He commands and obey.

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:36 PM
Jesus it the head of the church, that's why His followers ought to take heed of what He commands and obey.

Amen. We not only have Jesus' word on it, what He taught and commanded matched the way He walked meaning the way He lived.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:41 PM
I already told you, they are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

They are not long books, read them. He will tell you what He teaches.

I will not copy and paste the whole books for you.

Thank you Sir. Have a good day.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:44 PM
what does this have to do with OP?

Do you still teach that the Apostle Paul is an anti-Christ?

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:44 PM
What Jesus said and did is what matters. Jesus' word is what He said... that which He commanded and taught. What Jesus commanded is for our obedience. What Jesus commanded is included in what He taught. What Jesus taught has to do with our obedience. What did Jesus teach that was not commands? It all relates to obedience. And yet, some has to do with who we are, who God wants us to be, what God's kingdom is and what it is about. In fact, it is in this context that obedience makes sense. We obey because we are commanded. And that by the Son of God. And, we have instruction that orients us to the world in which we live, and all that God has for us, from abundant and eternal life. Not all are His followers. He commanded us to make disciples. We have this by way of extension.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:47 PM
Meshak ONLY believes in the books of Matthew through John. She rejects the rest of the Bible, especially the writings of the Apostle Paul. Meshak has said she doesn't know if she's saved. She's trying her best to earn her way though.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:48 PM
Meshak doesn't like church going people. She calls them, "Main-streamers."

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:49 PM
Meshak has said that, "Jehovah Witnesses" are godly people.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:51 PM
At least she's honest about trying to earn her way to eternal life. She tries to obey?

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:51 PM
Meshak has said that, "Jehovah Witnesses" are godly people.
She has distinguished herself from Jehovah's Witnesses.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:53 PM
She has distinguished herself from Jehovah's Witnesses.

How?

steko
February 27th, 2016, 11:55 PM
Luk 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms

Jacob
February 27th, 2016, 11:55 PM
How?
You can ask her if you want but I believe she said she is not a Jehovah's Witness. That is enough for me to know or come to believe that she is not a Jehovah's Witness, which gives reason for my saying so which you have responded to.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:56 PM
Luk 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms

I'm pretty sure she won't do that?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:58 PM
She's trying her best to live as a Jew, two thousand years ago, rather than a Gentile in the Dispensation of Grace. She wants to earn salvation through good works/deeds and obedience.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 27th, 2016, 11:59 PM
She wants to be obedient to everything in the four Gospels. (Matthew through John.)

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:01 AM
She'll have to obey 100% though.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:02 AM
That will be quite a task for her.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:03 AM
You can ask her if you want but I believe she said she is not a Jehovah's Witness. That is enough for me to know or come to believe that she is not a Jehovah's Witness, which gives reason for my saying so which you have responded to.

I didn't say she was one. She's said that they are godly.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:03 AM
Obedience to Jesus is a good thing Grosnick Marowbe. It should not be viewed as earning salvation.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:05 AM
Obedience to Jesus is a good thing Grosnick Marowbe. It should not be viewed as earning salvation.

Do you only trust in Matthew through John as well?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:08 AM
Jacob, I don't think you know enough about what Meshak believes, in order to make a judgement about what others say about her.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:10 AM
Meshak rejects about 95% of the Bible. She considers Paul to be an anti-Christ and she despises church goers.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:11 AM
I don't believe posters ought to back her on these things?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:12 AM
Meshak also despises posters that believe in the Trinity.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:13 AM
Do you only trust in Matthew through John as well?

It may be that she teaches or shares from these about Jesus because it is here that His life and word are recorded. There are other places in the New Testament that we can learn about what Jesus taught as well, but most of it is here, in the Gospels. His words, when seen in red letter Bibles or by quotes pertaining to Him, are indeed in more than the Four Gospels. But many have not even begun to learn what Jesus taught. They (or, we) know nothing or next to nothing of His word. It is only an opportunity to help people to learn or know how to learn of or from Jesus for themselves. Each one, each person, that hears of Jesus and the Gospels can turn there in their Bible and learn from that which has been recorded in written form. Many women will see what meshak has written and find that they can read the Bible and learn about Jesus and His word for themselves.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:16 AM
Jacob, I don't think you know enough about what Meshak believes, in order to make a judgement about what others say about her.I don't know everything that Meshak believes. But I believe this is her best thread yet and that she understands better at this time about what she believes than at any other time. A lot of time and effort have gone into getting to this point. I respect that very much about her. Maybe someone will come to find Jesus as their Savior because of what she has done here. I don't think you should take away from that. Maybe there is a method to your madness. :)

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:16 AM
It may be that she teaches or shares from these about Jesus because it is here that His life and word are recorded. There are other places in the New Testament that we can learn about what Jesus taught as well, but most of it is here, in the Gospels. His words, when seen in red letter Bibles or by quotes pertaining to Him, are indeed in more than the Four Gospels. But many have not even begun to learn what Jesus taught. They (or, we) know nothing or next to nothing of His word. It is only an opportunity to help people to learn or know how to learn of or from Jesus for themselves. Each one, each person, that hears of Jesus and the Gospels can turn there in their Bible and learn from that which has been recorded in written form. Many women will see what meshak has written and find that they can read the Bible and learn about Jesus and His word for themselves.

You're welcome to your opinion. You have to agree though, it's best not to call the Apostle Paul an anti-Christ? Where did she get that from?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:17 AM
I don't know everything that Meshak believes. But I believe this is her best thread yet and that she understands better at this time about what she believes than at any other time. A lot of time and effort have gone into getting to this point. I respect that very much about her. Maybe someone will come to find Jesus as their Savior because of what she has done here. I don't think you should take away from that. Maybe there is a method to your madness. :)

You sound like an okay kind of guy.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:20 AM
You're welcome to your opinion. You have to agree though, it's best not to call the Apostle Paul an anti-Christ? Where did she get that from?
I don't see that anywhere in this thread, which was started to the glory of God.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:23 AM
I don't see that anywhere in this thread, which was started to the glory of God.

She's posted that in the past.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:25 AM
Jacob, you don't have to believe me. I really don't care either way. I just don't like posters preaching false doctrines and heresies. There is my method of madness.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:28 AM
She's posted that in the past.


Jacob, you don't have to believe me. I really don't care either way. I just don't like posters preaching false doctrines and heresies. There is my method of madness.
You have addressed what you feel is a concern. You would have to show me for me to follow along with you. But, I don't see that anywhere here. I don't think you are mad. I do think Meshak wants to bring glory to God (my words) in magnifying Jesus' word.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:30 AM
You have addressed what you feel is a concern. You would have to show me for me to follow along with you. But, I don't see that anywhere here. I don't think you are mad. I do think Meshak wants to bring glory to God (my words) in magnifying Jesus' word.

I'd much rather her hear the Gospel and place her faith in Christ and become a member of the Body of Christ.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:31 AM
You have addressed what you feel is a concern. You would have to show me for me to follow along with you. But, I don't see that anywhere here. I don't think you are mad. I do think Meshak wants to bring glory to God (my words) in magnifying Jesus' word.

Duplicate.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:33 AM
Jacob, what church or denomination are you affiliated with?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:35 AM
I'd much rather her hear the Gospel and place her faith in Christ and become a member of the Body of Christ.
Maybe she will hear the gospel from you. Can you instruct her about Jesus' word? Usually this would be left to a father or husband, older woman, or minister / elder / overseer or Christian teacher or preacher (such as from a pulpit). Certainly she can learn on her own by studying the words of Jesus.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:37 AM
Jacob, what church or denomination are you affiliated with?

I attend both a Jewish or Messianic congregation and a Christian non-denominational church. I am not affiliated with either by way of credentials (I don't have any). I have personal study and 1-2 years of Bible School.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:38 AM
Maybe she will hear the gospel from you. Can you instruct her about Jesus' word? Usually this would be left to a father or husband, older woman, or minister / elder / overseer or Christian teacher or preacher (such as from a pulpit). Certainly she can learn on her own by studying the words of Jesus.

I have posted the Gospel "Several" times. She will not speak with me. I think she may have me on ignore? Others have preached the "True Gospel here and she wants nothing to do with it. She believes Paul is an anti-Christ and it's from him that we get the Gospel for today.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:40 AM
I attend both a Jewish or Messianic congregation and a Christian non-denominational church. I am not affiliated with either by way of credentials (I don't have any). I have personal study and 1-2 years of Bible School.

Have you been sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit after hearing the Gospel and placing all your faith in Christ?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:42 AM
The Grace Gospel is the only Gospel for today, as spoken of by the Apostle Paul in Romans through Philemon.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:43 AM
I have posted the Gospel "Several" times. She will not speak with me. I think she may have me on ignore? Others have preached the "True Gospel here and she wants nothing to do with it. She believes Paul is an anti-Christ and it's from him that we get the Gospel for today.
I don't know for sure, but what you are teaching here may be taking away from Jesus' own word. I am not saying it contradicts Jesus' word. But if you believe we should learn from Paul and not from Jesus it does. If we should learn from Jesus and the apostles and prophets, etc... (all of the New Testament is good), you may have a point to share with her? But, the gospel and the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, is saying different things. Did Jesus preach the gospel? That is for you to decide.

Mark 1:15 NASB - 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:44 AM
Meshak doesn't answer questions usually or, if at all.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:47 AM
I don't know for sure, but what you are teaching here may be taking away from Jesus' own word. I am not saying it contradicts Jesus' word. But if you believe we should learn from Paul and not from Jesus it does. If we should learn from Jesus and the apostles and prophets, etc... (all of the New Testament is good), you may have a point to share with her? But, the gospel and the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, is saying different things. Did Jesus preach the gospel? That is for you to decide.

Mark 1:15 NASB - 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Jesus was speaking only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel in Matthew through John. He wasn't speaking to the Gentiles or the Body of Christ which would later come about through Paul's encounter with the Ascended Christ.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:47 AM
Have you been sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit after hearing the Gospel and placing all your faith in Christ?
Yes, but this teaching in a non-denominational church I grew up in followed my becoming a Christian at an early age. So then, I believe that at the moment I accepted Jesus as Savior (I also learned then that He is Lord), at that time as with all believers (you can test me on this if you think I fall or err, this is what I believe) the Holy Spirit came to dwell in me or in my heart by faith, belief. I believed the gospel (of salvation) in Jesus Christ. The moment I believed was either better, or in some senses worse as a change spiritually from lost to found amounts to a lot.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:48 AM
Matthew 15:24: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:49 AM
Meshak doesn't answer questions usually or, if at all.

She wants people to know the truth, and accepts the attacks on her credibility for lack of either a way to defend herself right or wrong or in light of the fact that Christians are not to justify themselves.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:50 AM
The moment I believed was either better, or in some senses worse as a change spiritually from lost to found amounts to a lot.[/QUOTE]

What does this mean?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:51 AM
Jesus was speaking only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel in Matthew through John. He wasn't speaking to the Gentiles or the Body of Christ which would later come about through Paul's encounter with the Ascended Christ.

I disagree. Jesus spoke with Jews as Jew and Israelite, of the tribe of Judah, and He also spoke with non-Jews (do you disagree, we can discuss here and maybe I will learn something, if He only spoke to Jews). But I would say Jesus' word, His teaching and His commands, are not only for Israel but for all the world.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:53 AM
She wants people to know the truth, and accepts the attacks on her credibility for lack of either a way to defend herself right or wrong or in light of the fact that Christians are not to justify themselves.

Sorry, but, she doesn't preach the truth. She believes that she must obey and do good works/deeds to earn her salvation. She has said that, she doesn't know if she's saved? She's gonna let Jesus decide that.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:53 AM
Matthew 15:24: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Was He speaking with someone of the house of Israel when He said this? That is your first clue. Jesus was indeed sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:54 AM
The moment I believed was either better, or in some senses worse as a change spiritually from lost to found amounts to a lot.

What does this mean?It means that sometimes when a person becomes a Christian things get worse not better. I only knew a great change had taken place. It involved my mind and my whole being, at age 5 I believe it was. But it is all worth it and for God and Jesus and others in His kingdom.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:55 AM
I disagree. Jesus spoke with Jews as Jew and Israelite, of the tribe of Judah, and He also spoke with non-Jews (do you disagree, we can discuss here and maybe I will learn something, if He only spoke to Jews). But I would say Jesus' word, His teaching and His commands, are not only for Israel but for all the world.

There were only a few encounters with Gentiles. As Jesus said Himself; He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Do you believe Him?

Danoh
February 28th, 2016, 12:58 AM
It may be that she teaches or shares from these about Jesus because it is here that His life and word are recorded. There are other places in the New Testament that we can learn about what Jesus taught as well, but most of it is here, in the Gospels. His words, when seen in red letter Bibles or by quotes pertaining to Him, are indeed in more than the Four Gospels. But many have not even begun to learn what Jesus taught. They (or, we) know nothing or next to nothing of His word. It is only an opportunity to help people to learn or know how to learn of or from Jesus for themselves. Each one, each person, that hears of Jesus and the Gospels can turn there in their Bible and learn from that which has been recorded in written form. Many women will see what meshak has written and find that they can read the Bible and learn about Jesus and His word for themselves.

Consider one of various passages in Matthew thru John like the following:

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

He has just instructed that individual to go and have animal sacrifices offered to the LORD, per the Law of the Leper commanded by God TO ISRAEL through Moses, in Lev. 14.

Would you "follow Jesus" in this?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Just two questions you might consider reflecting on.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 12:59 AM
Was He speaking with someone of the house of Israel when He said this? That is your first clue. Jesus was indeed sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Gentile. Matthew 15: 22-24

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:59 AM
Sorry, but, she doesn't preach the truth. She believes that she must obey and do good works/deeds to earn her salvation. She has said that, she doesn't know if she's saved? She's gonna let Jesus decide that.
She will need to evaluate what you have said here. I have discussed Jesus' word with her in regard to not needing works to earn salvation (basically), and I believe she understand that or if she doesn't (either way) she knows Jesus' word is for her and unto salvation (it is, people are saved by God's word, even Jesus' word (and why not Jesus' word to save you, her, or anyone?). It would be wrong to say that Jesus can't save only Paul can. But it is not wrong to say to repent and believe the gospel or that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

Romans 10:17 NASB - 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

James 1:21 NASB - 21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

Do you have another perspective on these verses or on these things we are talking about, are discussing, or that I have brought up or said?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:01 AM
There were only a few encounters with Gentiles. As Jesus said Himself; He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Do you believe Him?
Yes, I believe Him. My perspective is that He was not just identifying something someone else had said.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:02 AM
Consider one of various passages in Matthew thru John like the following:

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

He has just instructed that individual to go and have animal sacrifices offered to the LORD, per the Law of the Leper commanded by God TO ISRAEL through Moses, in Lev. 14.

Would you "follow Jesus" in this?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Just two questions you might consider reflecting on.

Good post

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:02 AM
Consider one of various passages in Matthew thru John like the following:

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

He has just instructed that individual to go and have animal sacrifices offered to the LORD, per the Law of the Leper commanded by God TO ISRAEL through Moses, in Lev. 14.

Would you "follow Jesus" in this?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Just two questions you might consider reflecting on.

Thank you for sharing this. I believe you are thinking of me in this. I don't have an answer for you at this time. But your question cuts right to where I am at.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:04 AM
She will need to evaluate what you have said here. I have discussed Jesus' word with her in regard to not needing works to earn salvation (basically), and I believe she understand that or if she doesn't (either way) she knows Jesus' word is for her and unto salvation (it is, people are saved by God's word, even Jesus' word (and why not Jesus' word to save you, her, or anyone?). It would be wrong to say that Jesus can't save only Paul can. But it is not wrong to say to repent and believe the gospel or that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

Romans 10:17 NASB - 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

James 1:21 NASB - 21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

Do you have another perspective on these verses or on these things we are talking about, are discussing, or that I have brought up or said?

James was written to the scattered sheep of Israel, not to the Gentiles/Body of Christ.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:06 AM
Yes, I believe Him. My perspective is that He was not just identifying something someone else had said.

?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:07 AM
Paul preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles, while Peter and the rest preached the Kingdom Gospel to the House of Israel. There were two Gospels being preached at that period of time.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:08 AM
James was written to the scattered sheep of Israel, not to the Gentiles/Body of Christ.
The gospel was for Jew first, and also for or to the Greek. This is what Paul said. Romans 1:16 NASB.

The body of Christ was not first Gentile. It is also not solely Gentile. In fact, it is either for Jew and Greek or Gentile, or it is for the church and not those who live like Gentiles.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:08 AM
The Bible tells us to "Rightly Divide the Word."

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:09 AM
Some of the Bible speaks to the House of Israel only. Some of the Bible speaks to the Gentiles only.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:10 AM
?

Some might think He was just identifying what someone else said. Quoting their words back. But I believe these are Jesus' words. The point is that Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But that He also reached out beyond this or spoke with others who were not of the house of Israel for the purpose of that which was.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:11 AM
Paul preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles, while Peter and the rest preached the Kingdom Gospel to the House of Israel. There were two Gospels being preached at that period of time.Peter preached to Gentiles before Paul, and both Peter and Paul preached to Jews first.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:12 AM
Christ was ONLY speaking to the House of Israel in Matthew through John. The ascended Christ gave Paul the "Grace Gospel" to preach to the Gentiles. Today, the Grace Gospel is for Jew and Gentile alike.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:13 AM
Peter preached to Gentiles before Paul, and both Peter and Paul preached to Jews first.

Have you read the entire Bible cover to cover?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:13 AM
The Bible tells us to "Rightly Divide the Word."


Some of the Bible speaks to the House of Israel only. Some of the Bible speaks to the Gentiles only.

These two statements do not mean the same thing, but they can (or, may) be related. Can we find anywhere that was to Gentiles only?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:14 AM
Christ was ONLY speaking to the House of Israel in Matthew through John. The ascended Christ gave Paul the "Grace Gospel" to preach to the Gentiles. Today, the Grace Gospel is for Jew and Gentile alike.The gospel was to Jew first, and Jews have always been saved the same way we know Gentiles are, by grace through faith.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:14 AM
Please give me some Scriptures that state that Peter preached the Grace Gospel to Gentiles?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:15 AM
Have you read the entire Bible cover to cover?

Yes.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:15 AM
These two statements do not mean the same thing, but they can (or, may) be related. Can we find anywhere that was to Gentiles only?

Have you read the entire Bible cover to cover?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:18 AM
The gospel was to Jew first, and Jews have always been saved the same way we know Gentiles are, by grace through faith.

However, James says that, faith without works is dead. How do you explain that? Paul said that, faith alone without works is sufficient. How do you explain that?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:19 AM
Please give me some Scriptures that state that Peter preached the Grace Gospel to Gentiles?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:19 AM
Please give me some Scriptures that state that Peter preached the Grace Gospel to Gentiles?

Salvation is by grace through faith. It always has been and always will be.

Jews came to salvation on Shavuot shortly after Yeshua's (Jesus') ascension to the right hand of the Father (God). When Peter preached to the Gentiles, the Spirit was poured out on them as well. At what point did Paul turn to the Gentiles, and at what point did Paul go to the Gentiles (where he still preached to Jews first) and Peter was to the circumcised. There was Paul and what He learned from Jesus. And there was Peter and Paul and what they learned from each other. Paul explained something to Peter when he was in the wrong, or even in what appeared to be wrong (appearances are everything, and likely this was right judgment (though the way things appear is as important as the way things are even in your heart and mind in what you intend to do or in what you are doing or in what you are actually doing whatever your motive).

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:22 AM
Romans 13:12--"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:"

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:24 AM
However, James says that, faith without works is dead. How do you explain that? Paul said that, faith alone without works is sufficient. How do you explain that?

Yes. Faith without works is dead, a dead faith. A dead faith will not save. At the same time it is faith that saves and not the works, not the works of the Law. No one is justified by the works of the Law (by what they have done). But faith is obedience or yields or brings about obedience. A faith without obedience may not be faith at all. Some say they have faith when they do not. At the same time, when a person does have faith it is God who saves or has saved them. This means when a person says they have faith, they may be saved. We may not be able to judge. But, we may be called upon to present the gospel clearly to that person. They must know that is it not by works that a person is saved. And that if they have faith, God has appointed them to good works. I think that is what James was saying. That if you say you have faith but don't have works, you may not even have (true) faith yet.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:24 AM
Galatians 2:7 states; "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

There were two different Gospels being preached at that time.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:26 AM
Romans 13:12--"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:"Yes, that is not all that Paul did, preaching to Gentiles. But it is what he rightly came to believe he was called to do. And that, by Jesus Himself.

Acts 9:15 NASB - 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:28 AM
Salvation is by grace through faith. It always has been and always will be.

Jews came to salvation on Shavuot shortly after Yeshua's (Jesus') ascension to the right hand of the Father (God). When Peter preached to the Gentiles, the Spirit was poured out on them as well. At what point did Paul turn to the Gentiles, and at what point did Paul go to the Gentiles (where he still preached to Jews first) and Peter was to the circumcised. There was Paul and what He learned from Jesus. And there was Peter and Paul and what they learned from each other. Paul explained something to Peter when he was in the wrong, or even in what appeared to be wrong (appearances are everything, and likely this was right judgment (though the way things appear is as important as the way things are even in your heart and mind in what you intend to do or in what you are doing or in what you are actually doing whatever your motive).

The Grace Gospel concerning the "Body of Christ" didn't come about until the ascended Christ met Paul on the road to Damascus and subsequently, Paul was sent to the Gentiles with the message he had received from Christ.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:30 AM
Paul went and preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles.
Peter continued to go to the House of Israel with the Kingdom Message.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:31 AM
Galatians 2:7 states; "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

There were two different Gospels being preached at that time.Not two gospels. Two ministries. One was the gospel to the circumcision. The other, the gospel to the uncircumcision. To the circumcised would deal with the Jews, meaning Israel, under the Law or simply just those who were coming to faith from among the Jews (God's commands for the nation of Israel intact?). The uncircumcised were without the law and they came to believe in Christ by faith the same as the Jews who received the gospel, but they did not have the requirement to be circumcised or observe all of the Law of Moses... I believe you understand that.

Philippians 3:7 NASB - 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 NASB - 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:33 AM
Paul went and preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles.
Peter continued to go to the House of Israel with the Kingdom Message.
Peter preached to Jews and then Gentiles.
Paul preached to Jews and then Gentiles.
Peter preached to or was given a ministry to the Jews.
Paul preached to or was given a ministry to the Gentiles.
Both preached to Jews first and then to Gentiles. Paul left the nation of Israel first, and still preached to Jews first.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:35 AM
The Grace Gospel concerning the "Body of Christ" didn't come about until the ascended Christ met Paul on the road to Damascus and subsequently, Paul was sent to the Gentiles with the message he had received from Christ.

We would need to look at this in depth.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:36 AM
You're getting confused Jacob, you need to stop sitting on the fence and choose either your Jewish beliefs or your Christian beliefs. You said you're going to both. I think you're becoming confused by these two messages? Pick only one. Personally, I think you should choose a nice non-denominational, Bible believing, Christ centered church in your area.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:36 AM
Paul went and preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles.
Peter continued to go to the House of Israel with the Kingdom Message.

Yes, but then I don't know who 1 Peter and 2 Peter were written to. I also don't know what you mean by Kingdom Message.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 01:38 AM
I'm done for tonight Jacob. Good night.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:38 AM
You're getting confused Jacob, you need to stop sitting on the fence and choose either your Jewish beliefs or your Christian beliefs. You said you're going to both. I think you're becoming confused by these two messages? Pick only one. Personally, I think you should choose a nice non-denominational, Bible believing, Christ centered church in your area.I already attend one. But Christians are Jews and Gentiles alike. It doesn't matter what nation you belong to you can be a Christian. The gospel is not different for different people. We still have God's commands. And we still have faith.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:39 AM
I'm done for tonight Jacob. Good night.Shalom. And, good night.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 01:39 AM
Paul went and preached the Grace Gospel to the Gentiles.
Peter continued to go to the House of Israel with the Kingdom Message.

Jesus came with GRACE for ALL. First to the lost sheep of Israel, then to everyone else.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:40 AM
Jesus came with GRACE for ALL. First to the lost sheep of Israel, then to everyone else.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Thank you. I do not have the word grace associated with anything Peter said, but it was grace none the less.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 01:47 AM
Thank you. I do not have the word grace associated with anything Peter said, but it was grace none the less.

You are welcome. Thank you, too.

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,

1 Peter 5:12 [ Final Greetings ] With the help of Silas, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand fast in it.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 01:49 AM
You are welcome. Thank you, too.

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,

1 Peter 5:12 [ Final Greetings ] With the help of Silas, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand fast in it.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Thanks! I was thinking only of what Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles in both cases where the Spirit was poured out.

You are reminding me of 1 Peter and 2 Peter, that they have the word grace in them.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 01:55 AM
Thanks! I was thinking only of what Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles in both cases where the Spirit was poured out.

You are reminding me of 1 Peter and 2 Peter, that they have the word grace in them.

Peter acted out of line with the gospel when he was afraid of the Jews.

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:03 AM
Peter acted out of line with the gospel when he was afraid of the Jews.

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
This was after Peter preached to the Gentiles, although I don't know if there is a connection here.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:06 AM
This was after Peter preached to the Gentiles, although I don't know if there is a connection here.

I do not understand your reply.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:07 AM
I do not understand your reply.Do you remember when Peter first preached to the Gentiles? I am just saying it may not be the same group of Gentiles. In fact, I believe it was not.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:09 AM
Do you remember when Peter first preached to the Gentiles? I am just saying it may not be the same group of Gentiles. In fact, I believe it was not.

I remember when Peter first preached to the Gentiles. Does it matter if it was the same group? Please explain how it matters.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:13 AM
I remember when Peter first preached to the Gentiles. Does it matter if it was the same group? Please explain how it matters.

What matters is that this was not his first time among Gentiles. He had seen Gentiles come to faith. It's a separate situation.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:16 AM
What matters is that this was not his first time among Gentiles. He had seen Gentiles come to faith. It's a separate situation.

Please forgive me, but I do not understand the importance of that. I gave scripture which says Peter used to eat with the Gentiles.

The significance of that is that there is only one gospel, and there is no more Jew and Gentile as separate people with different beliefs, not when they are in Christ.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:20 AM
Please forgive me, but I do not understand the importance of that. I gave scripture which says Peter used to eat with the Gentiles.

The significance of that is that there is only one gospel, and there is no more Jew and Gentile as separate people with different beliefs, not when they are in Christ.

Jews, Greeks, and the church... we are to give no offense to anyone.

1 Corinthians 10:32 NASB - 32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;

One way of thinking is that Jews and Gentiles can both be members in the church, the body of Christ. Another is that when you become a part of the body of Christ, the church, you are no longer a Jew or a Gentile. Some believe that when a Gentile comes to faith he ceases to be a Gentile.

Peter did used to eat with the Gentiles. But this was not his first time among Gentiles.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:25 AM
Jews, Greeks, and the church... we are to give no offense to anyone.

1 Corinthians 10:32 NASB - 32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;

One way of thinking is that Jews and Gentiles can both be members in the church, the body of Christ. Another is that when you become a part of the body of Christ, the church, you are no longer a Jew or a Gentile. Some believe that when a Gentile comes to faith he ceases to be a Gentile.

Peter did used to eat with the Gentiles. But this was not his first time among Gentiles.

The scriptures say there is no more Jew and Gentile; through Jesus' body the two are made one.

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:27 AM
The scriptures say there is no more Jew and Gentile; through Jesus' body the two are made one.

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
Do you mean there is no barrier between the two?

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:31 AM
Do you mean there is no barrier between the two?

Jesus destroyed the barrier, he fulfilled the scriptures with the rules and regulations, the ceremonial works.

ALL are bound to disobedience, and all must come through Jesus to be saved. We must all come to Jesus the same way.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


All who are not in Christ are cut off from God, Jew, Gentile, and everyone.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:34 AM
Here are the verses that show Peter was in two different places, among Gentiles.

Acts 9:43 NASB - 43 And Peter stayed many days in Joppa with a tanner named Simon.

Acts 10:1, 5, 23-24 NASB - 1 Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, ... 5 "Now dispatch some men to Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter; ... 23 So he invited them in and gave them lodging. And on the next day he got up and went away with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 On the following day he entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends.

Galatians 2:11-16 NASB - 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? 15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:37 AM
Here are the verses that show Peter was in two different places, among Gentiles.
Right, we both know this. I was joining the discussion to give more scriptures that prove Peter taught the same gospel as Paul, to Jews and Gentiles, and even before Paul.

I do not understand why you seem to not understand. Where did we leave off on the like mindedness?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:39 AM
Jesus destroyed the barrier, he fulfilled the scriptures with the rules and regulations, the ceremonial works.

ALL are bound to disobedience, and all must come through Jesus to be saved. We must all come to Jesus the same way.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


All who are not in Christ are cut off from God, Jew, Gentile, and everyone.Here is the scripture you are referring to.

Romans 11:32 NASB - 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

And this one.

Ephesians 2:8-22 NASB - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

What do you believe is the barrier of the dividing wall?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:41 AM
Right, we both know this. I was joining the discussion to give more scriptures that prove Peter taught the same gospel as Paul, to Jews and Gentiles, and even before Paul.

I do not understand why you seem to not understand. Where did we leave off on the like mindedness?

Well, I know Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles before Paul preached to Gentiles.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:44 AM
What do you believe is the barrier of the dividing wall?


The dividing wall was the rules and regulations, the ceremonial works.

The ceremonial works for the old law, which began with a sealing by circumcision of the flesh, and included other works to make one clean and justified, just to be able to go to the temple to worship God, for that is where His Spirit was.

The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not do these works.

Those works were a shadow of what was coming. What was coming was Jesus Christ. The ceremonial works were a shadow of Jesus, a teaching tool about what Jesus' blood would do for us.

No one has to do any works to clean themselves anymore, for faith that Jesus' blood cleans us after repenting is what cleans and justifies us.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 02:46 AM
Well, I know Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles before Paul preached to Gentiles.

I figured you knew, but there were others here that go against that belief. I was supporting you in that discussion.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 02:50 AM
The dividing wall was the rules and regulations, the ceremonial works.

The ceremonial works for the old law, which began with a sealing by circumcision of the flesh, and included other works to make one clean and justified, just to be able to go to the temple to worship God, for that is where His Spirit was.

The Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not do these works.

Those works were a shadow of what was coming. What was coming was Jesus Christ. The ceremonial works were a shadow of Jesus, a teaching tool about what Jesus' blood would do for us.

No one has to do any works to clean themselves anymore, for faith that Jesus' blood cleans us after repenting is what cleans and justifies us.

I don't get what you are telling me from the verse, passage. The other passage is Colossians 2:14-15 NASB. The word ceremonial is, as far as I can tell (I searched the NASB), not found in the Bible.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:01 AM
I don't get what you are telling me from the verse, passage. The other passage is Colossians 2:14-15 NASB. The word ceremonial is, as far as I can tell (I searched the NASB), not found in the Bible.

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so.


The regulations were the works to be clean to go to the temple to worship God, and to eat the Passover, etc.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 03:07 AM
Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so.


The regulations were the works to be clean to go to the temple to worship God, and to eat the Passover, etc.Here are the verses in the NASB from these references.

Hebrews 9:10, 13 NASB - 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. ... 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,

Hebrews 13:9 NASB - 9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

I am not following with what you are saying.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:09 AM
Here are the verses in the NASB from these references.

Hebrews 9:10, 13 NASB - 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. ... 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,

Hebrews 13:9 NASB - 9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

I am not following with what you are saying.

I understand that some translations do not use the word 'ceremonial' in it; however, I have explained that there are certain works one must do to be able to go to the temple to worship God, and to participate in the ceremonial acts, such as the Passover.

Do you understand that there were certain works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 03:15 AM
I understand that some translations do not use the word 'ceremonial' in it; however, I have explained that there are certain works one must do to be able to go to the temple to worship God, and to participate in the ceremonial acts, such as the Passover.

Do you understand that there were certain works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?
You are welcome to elaborate and I will leave this there for now. Are you talking about or sharing what you believe to be Biblical or scriptural?

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:18 AM
You are welcome to elaborate and I will leave this there for now. Are you talking about or sharing what you believe to be Biblical or scriptural?

I am speaking about the scriptures.
I am speaking about what is in the Bible.

Do you know the Jews had regulations to do to worship God?
Do you know these regulations were works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?
What do you think the command to circumcise was about, and the dietary laws, and the observance of special days, and the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 03:21 AM
I am speaking about the scriptures.
I am speaking about what is in the Bible.

Do you know the Jews had regulations to do to worship God?
Do you know these regulations were works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?
What do you think the command to circumcise was about, and the dietary laws, and the observance of special days, and the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals?
I don't observe all of these, but I also don't use your terminology. I observe God's commands. I am circumcised. I observe kosher, the Ten Commandments, the feasts and holy days of Torah, and other Jewish festivals.

Shalom for now.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:27 AM
I don't observe all of these, but I also don't use your terminology. I observe God's commands. I am circumcised. I observe kosher, the Ten Commandments, the feasts and holy days of Torah, and other Jewish festivals.

Shalom for now.

This is important, please tell me, do you understand that being circumcised, observing special days, adhering to a dietary law, doing various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals were all acts to clean and justify one's self before God?

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:31 AM
Here are the verses in the NASB from these references.

Hebrews 9:10, 13 NASB - 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. ... 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,

Hebrews 13:9 NASB - 9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

I am not following with what you are saying.

You said you were kosher. That is about food. Read what Hebrews says. Hebrews say that is a REGULATION IMPOSED on the body UNTIL THE REFORMATION.

The reformation is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We are strengthened by grace, and NOT by food.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 03:36 AM
Are you strengthening yourself by things outside of grace?

Grace is about not having to clean ourselves any more by adhering to a dietary law, and the observance of special days, and by circumcision, and the blood of animals.

Faith that Jesus' blood cleans us is all that matters. THAT is what grace is.

Grace is that we no longer have to do any of the ceremonial works, the regulations to clean ourselves, just to go to the temple to worship God, for Jesus' blood cleans us, and we become the temple of the Living God.

Danoh
February 28th, 2016, 05:23 AM
Thank you for sharing this. I believe you are thinking of me in this. I don't have an answer for you at this time. But your question cuts right to where I am at.

You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.

Take Early Acts as a Jew, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have a Messianic Jew.

Take early Acts as a Gentile, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have mainstream Christianity in all its confusions.

Read that list at the bottom of the poster, Right Divider's posts, for a good list of the various confusions and their representatives.

Now, this may sound odd right about this time. But when you have some time, find yourself a non "Messianic Christian" Jew who knows the OT and have him explain to you what he believes as to how Isaiah 2:1-5 will play out and where do the Gentiles fit in at that time?

You will then understand why Peter took issue with going to a Gentile in Acts 10 (and it had nothing to do with bigotry or ignorance of any kind on Peter's part).

The Messianics don't know why, and mainstream Christianity does not.

Both have so screwed that up that it almost takes the lens of a lost Jew who at least knows the OT Prophets to sort out Acts 10 and 11's first impulse response.

meshak
February 28th, 2016, 06:14 AM
You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.


This thread is about Jesus' word or teaching on how it is the center of Christianity.

The rest of the books should be read accordingly.

blessings.

meshak
February 28th, 2016, 06:21 AM
Well, I know Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles before Paul preached to Gentiles.

So did the others.

Jesus preached to the Jews mostly so He commissioned to His followers to reach out to the rest of the world.

It seems that they did not understand Jesus' last command to them at the beginning, about reaching out the world.

Nonetheless, Jesus told them to.

musterion
February 28th, 2016, 08:00 AM
Not two gospels.


The current religious scene uses the word "gospel" indiscriminately. We hear of gospel music, gospel truth, the old fashioned gospel, gospel literature, and gospel meetings. But what is the meaning of the word "gospel"? Coming from the Greek word euaggelion, it simply means "good tidings" or "good news."

Let me raise a question that might bring opposing response and perhaps considerable disagreement. Here's the question: Is there more than one gospel? Some would quickly answer "Of course not! There's only one gospel." They refer to the gospel spoken of by the apostle Paul in this familiar passage:



Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor 15:1-4


But is this the only "good news" of the Bible? Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will demonstrate that for the 101 times the word is used, it cannot be exclusively "the gospel" to which the apostle referred. However, if you object to the statement that there is more than one gospel, you would surely agree that if there is but one "good news" it must necessarily concern several different subjects. Paul wrote,



And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ... Philippians 1:9-10.


A marginal rendering of the phrase "approve things that are excellent" is simply "distinguish between the things which differ." In this series of messages, I want us to consider the teaching of God's Word relative to four different gospels mentioned in the New Testament. We will examine the four different subjects about which the gospel is concerned . . .

Which Gospel W (http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html)hen? (http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html)

musterion
February 28th, 2016, 08:58 AM
This thread is about Jesus' word or teaching on how it is the center of Christianity.

The rest of the books should be read accordingly.

blessings.


"The apostle John wrote in strong words the divine condemnation of deceivers who deny that Jesus is the Christ of God manifest in the flesh. Check it out, friend. What does your church teach and what does your preacher believe about Jesus Christ? All that scriptures says about Him and all that He declares concerning Himself is true. The one who departs from either is a false teacher and dispenser of a false gospel
. . .

"The Word of God clearly condemns anyone who perverts the gospel of the grace of God, or who departs from the doctrine of Christ. In fact, you will find no stronger language in all of Scripture. Paul said that even an angel would be "accursed" if he preached anything different. Read for yourself his inspired words:


But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)



"The curse of God is upon all preaching that says man has to work to be saved or to be kept saved. This sounds the death knell to all who mingle law and grace. John gave this warning about anyone who preaches another gospel.


If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed; For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds (2 John 1:10-11)



"At the time of John's writing, the homes of the Christians were the primary places for assembly and worship. Stated simply, these believers were to have no fellowship whatever with one who preached a different gospel and who denied the doctrine of Christ.

"May I put it pointedly to you? If you are affiliated with a church or a religious group that tolerates the preaching of another gospel, or that goes beyond or does not abide in the doctrine of Christ, you are not only exposing your family to false teaching but are disobeying the Word of God. Ephesians 5:11 commands us to 'have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but, rather, reprove them.' "


http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html


All that is talking about you, Meshak.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 09:49 AM
Consider one of various passages in Matthew thru John like the following:

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

He has just instructed that individual to go and have animal sacrifices offered to the LORD, per the Law of the Leper commanded by God TO ISRAEL through Moses, in Lev. 14.

Would you "follow Jesus" in this?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Just two questions you might consider reflecting on.

Jesus did not die on the cross yet. That is the reason why animal sacrifices were still in force.

Jesus is the LAMB OF GOD.

The Lamb had not yet been sacrificed.

When Jesus came and had his earthly ministry---he taught the way of the NEW Covenant; and when he died on the cross---he shed his blood for the NEW COVENANT.

The scriptures say JESUS CAME WITH GRACE, and that Moses came with the old law.

Why won't you believe that?

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 11:11 AM
All that is talking about you, Meshak.

Grosnick Marowbe
February 28th, 2016, 11:27 AM
I see that "gods truth" is still abiding in confusion. So is Meshak and Jacob. All three of them have the same problem. Interesting.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 11:48 AM
This is important, please tell me, do you understand that being circumcised, observing special days, adhering to a dietary law, doing various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals were all acts to clean and justify one's self before God?
No, that is not what I understand. These are matters of the Law and obedience to the Law if a person chooses to be obedient to God's Law according to the old covenant. They have nothing to do with justifying one's self.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 11:51 AM
You said you were kosher. That is about food. Read what Hebrews says. Hebrews say that is a REGULATION IMPOSED on the body UNTIL THE REFORMATION.

The reformation is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We are strengthened by grace, and NOT by food.
I understand we are strengthened by grace, but I have no problem keeping kosher. I can say that in some matters of keeping kosher I am still learning. But most people who know me know that I keep kosher. Keeping kosher according to Torah means different things to different people, according to how it is interpreted. I acknowledge this. If you were to observe what I eat, I eat or keep kosher. But I fellowship with those who do and with those who don't.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 11:59 AM
Are you strengthening yourself by things outside of grace?

Grace is about not having to clean ourselves any more by adhering to a dietary law, and the observance of special days, and by circumcision, and the blood of animals.

Faith that Jesus' blood cleans us is all that matters. THAT is what grace is.

Grace is that we no longer have to do any of the ceremonial works, the regulations to clean ourselves, just to go to the temple to worship God, for Jesus' blood cleans us, and we become the temple of the Living God.
These things do not have to do with cleaning one's self. That is, salvation in Jesus Christ is what matters. But obedience to the Law, as I understand it, is not as you are describing it. I am a new covenant believer. But I observe much of what is found in the old covenant law. I believe the old covenant Law to be God's Law. It is not man's law. But I am saying it IS God's Law while I am a new covenant believer. I can explain my thoughts on this, but to end this post I am simply saying I see nothing wrong in it. As a child I was practically told that obeying God is not for Christians. I was told I was justifying myself. This was when I was wanting to observe New Testament commands, or commands found in the New Testament. I also knew about loving God and loving my neighbor. I can't remember if I thought specifically of the Ten Commandments at this time or not. But when I discovered God's Law in the course of time it brought me near to God. Because God is holy and my sin was shown for what it was. Obeying God is not sin. That is what I have learned. So, I do say I obey God's commands. I do this as a new covenant believer. And I don't hold Gentiles to the standard of the Law for their obedience, salvation, and fellowship. But it is still God's Law. It still points out sin in the unbeliever. And it still tells believers about the God they love, serve, and worship. There are things required of Gentiles who are new covenant believers. These I do tell Gentiles about, when I have the opportunity.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:00 PM
No, that is not what I understand. These are matters of the Law and obedience to the Law if a person chooses to be obedient to God's Law according to the old covenant. They have nothing to do with justifying one's self.

You are badly mistaken, for the Jews had works to do to clean themselves.

The Jews had to clean themselves, just to be able to worship God.

Do you really not understand about the Jews having to make themselves clean and justified before God?

What do you think circumcision and the blood of animals was all about?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:01 PM
You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.

Take Early Acts as a Jew, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have a Messianic Jew.

Take early Acts as a Gentile, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have mainstream Christianity in all its confusions.

Read that list at the bottom of the poster, Right Divider's posts, for a good list of the various confusions and their representatives.

Now, this may sound odd right about this time. But when you have some time, find yourself a non "Messianic Christian" Jew who knows the OT and have him explain to you what he believes as to how Isaiah 2:1-5 will play out and where do the Gentiles fit in at that time?

You will then understand why Peter took issue with going to a Gentile in Acts 10 (and it had nothing to do with bigotry or ignorance of any kind on Peter's part).

The Messianics don't know why, and mainstream Christianity does not.

Both have so screwed that up that it almost takes the lens of a lost Jew who at least knows the OT Prophets to sort out Acts 10 and 11's first impulse response.
I have still chosen to obey God with more than what is required of Gentile believers.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:04 PM
I understand we are strengthened by grace, but I have no problem keeping kosher. I can say that in some matters of keeping kosher I am still learning. But most people who know me know that I keep kosher. Keeping kosher according to Torah means different things to different people, according to how it is interpreted. I acknowledge this. If you were to observe what I eat, I eat or keep kosher. But I fellowship with those who do and with those who don't.

We are not to eat meat from strangled animals, and blood of the animals. That is about idol practices.

However, the kosher laws you obey are only about a diet, and have nothing to do with being righteous before God.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:04 PM
So did the others.

Jesus preached to the Jews mostly so He commissioned to His followers to reach out to the rest of the world.

It seems that they did not understand Jesus' last command to them at the beginning, about reaching out the world.

Nonetheless, Jesus told them to.
Yes. I believe you are correct. And this is about Jesus which is consistent with your OP. Do you believe Jews and Gentiles alike should obey Jesus? I am guessing you do. But I don't know what you would say here. Your answer is what matters, not what I think you might answer or how you might or might not say what I am spending my time on (or where my focus is here and what I want to learn in this thread, especially in regard to Christianity)... understanding Jesus for both Jews and Gentiles.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:06 PM
I have still chosen to obey God with more than what is required of Gentile believers.

God does NOT require more from one nationality over another.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:09 PM
Which Gospel W (http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html)hen? (http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html)
Thank you for sharing. The word gospel means one thing. The question is if it is used more than one way. I'm not sure what it meant hear by gospel of the kingdom. Where I am at with that is the God's kingdom is for Jews and Gentiles.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:09 PM
The Pharisees symbolize the nowadays Jews, and that is a person that rejects Jesus, yet follows the old law, except that no Jew can follow the old law anymore. Where is there sacrifice of animals? What good is the blood of animals when we have the blood of Jesus Christ? What good is a physical circumcision when circumcision of the heart is what is needed? What good is a special day when we have Jesus Christ to whom the special days represent?

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:11 PM
I see that "gods truth" is still abiding in confusion. So is Meshak and Jacob. All three of them have the same problem. Interesting.Thank you for sharing your opinion.

What problem do you believe I have?

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:12 PM
God requires people to be Christians, and that is about surpassing the Jewish teachings about the old law.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:14 PM
God does NOT require more from one nationality over another.
Gentiles are not required to be circumcised or observe the entire Law of Moses. But they are required to observe the Noachide Laws or that which was decided upon in Acts 15, which all believers are required to observe. Acts 15 shows that Gentile believers are to observe certain things, which do have a correspondence to things that are found in the Law. That may not be the whole or entire story to it.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:16 PM
The Pharisees symbolize the nowadays Jews, and that is a person that rejects Jesus, yet follows the old law, except that no Jew can follow the old law anymore. Where is there sacrifice of animals? What good is the blood of animals when we have the blood of Jesus Christ? What good is a physical circumcision when circumcision of the heart is what is needed? What good is a special day when we have Jesus Christ to whom the special days represent?
There is no reason to speak ill of things that are good. What we must acknowledge is that even in this Jesus is better than Moses. That takes away nothing from God's word.

Jacob
February 28th, 2016, 12:17 PM
God requires people to be Christians, and that is about surpassing the Jewish teachings about the old law.

The old covenant law is God's word. Christians are new covenant believers. But God's Law is still God's Law.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:19 PM
The old covenant law is God's word. Christians are new covenant believers. But God's Law is still God's Law.

There is a NEW COVENANT.

God's Truth
February 28th, 2016, 12:20 PM
There is no reason to speak ill of things that are good. What we must acknowledge is that even in this Jesus is better than Moses. That takes away nothing from God's word.

Jesus IS God's WORD.

Don't you believe everything that Jesus says? What is ill about anything Jesus says?