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Cross Reference
January 31st, 2016, 07:11 AM
If tradition is not in agreement with scripture which one should one give way to the other?

It has been written of me this: “. . . . you've tacitly admitted to being something other than a real Christian, . . . . who doesn’t] understand the simplest aspects of issues as fundamental to the Christian faith as what happened at Calvary.”

Before I begin explaining what “fundamentally” happened at Calvary, I would like first to clarify some of my last that landed me in hot water for reasons anti-thetical to objective thinking:

Lets check into some of these “simplest aspects” in the account of the Life of Jesus to see if I am violating/hindering the scriptures in the process of my sorting out the issues dealing with redemption and salvation God by Jesus as a man and by His allegiance Him depended upon, is correct. Lets permit the scriptures, without conjecture as possible, say what they say.

1. Jesus was not God before His “Resurrection. He was the only begotten, Son of God, subjected to his Father's will for the purpose of revealing all aspects of God and providing a way of rectification whereby man could be restored to having direct communion with Him.

A. Had He been God He could not have died. His human death was required. God can’t die.

B. Secondly, He would have known all things which He didn't. He was yet the instrument by which God would reconcile the world to Himself. Matt 24:36 KJV. This necessitated certain limitations placed upon him. God has no limitations in such matters.

C. Thirdly, Had Jesus been God, He would have not have needed to be tempted, nor could He have been. God can’t be tempted. So much for the subversive “wiles of the Devil”.

D. Fourthly, With the heavenly host observing all creation in this battle to see that God did not bail out fallen man, because God did not cause the fall of man, man did and therefore, by man the problem must be rectified and human blood was the only means by which it could be accomplished. A man to be made equal in relationship to the Godhead but, not the Godhead. Being of the Godhead carried with it certain limitations brought on by its own Holiness for which the glorification of Jesus would be necessary. Which is why this from Paul, who had understanding in all of this; whose life was patterned after it as ours also is purposed to follow suit by the new birth:

"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but [allowed Himself to be emptied of all vestiges of anything of the Divine of Himself], by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:6-11 (ESV)

[Emphasis mine]

Why the above except for this purpose set in the Mind of God for having created man:

"For it became him [God], for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory [again, God], to make the captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings" Hebrews 2:10 (KJV)

"That we should be to the praise of his glory , who [God] first trusted in Christ [Jesus]."
Ephesians 1:12 (KJV)

Jesus had to be fully man, sinless but with a choice. Keep in mind, death has no power over a sinless man. Death could never hold Him. Jesus could have resurrected Himself!

So what was the solution to the problem facing God? Part of the answer is above, Eph1:12 KJV [trust]

<Thoughtful answers only, please>

There is much more after this if we can agree and let it happen.

Cross Reference
January 31st, 2016, 09:25 AM
I edited the OP by adding this emphasis:[allowed Himself to be emptied of all vestiges of anything of the Divine of Himself],

Jesus could have written this while going from Gethsemane to His crucifixion:

105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

106 I have sworn, and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.

108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

109 My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.

110 The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.

111 Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart.

112 I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end. Psalm 119:105-112 (KJV)

Interplanner
January 31st, 2016, 09:33 AM
So...if he emptied himself of those attributes of God at will, He must have had them to begin with. So we are done. He was at will and chose not to use them as a human because he was acting as mankinds' representative to make up for Adam.

Cross Reference
January 31st, 2016, 09:54 AM
So...if he emptied himself of those attributes of God at will, He must have had them to begin with. So we are done. He was at will and chose not to use them as a human because he was acting as mankinds' representative to make up for Adam.

Learn the difference between Who was the Word of God who emptied Himself to become Jesus, son of man, with the result being servanthood even unto death . . . . with that result being the Word of God re-entering Jesus, Son of Man raised from the grave resulting in the Godhead being glorified in human flesh! HIS!

Interplanner
January 31st, 2016, 10:33 AM
Learn the difference between Who was the Word of God who emptied Himself to become Jesus, son of man, with the result being servanthood even unto death . . . . with that result being the Word of God re-entering Jesus, Son of Man raised from the grave resulting in the Godhead being glorified in human flesh! HIS!


??? I have no idea what you are saying, and cannot diagram your sentence.

OCTOBER23
January 31st, 2016, 10:39 AM
At first I can say this..........

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven,

but he that came down from heaven,

even the Son of man WHO EXISTS in heaven.
----------------
At the Cross , God took away that God spirit so that ,

Jesus was capable of Dying.

---------------------------------------

But let us analyze his THEORY.

1. Jesus born a Human and Another Spirit Enters him ?????????

- It sounds LIKE POSSSSSSESSSSION to me.

2. Of course , we have the MIND OF CHRIST which is a Form of possessing us.

I IN YOU AND YOU IN ME

Interesting but what can we compute from this Action.
------------------------------------------------------------
3. What is the PURPOSE of the Father in all this ?

God put the DOVE UPON JESUS .

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth;

I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
-----------------------------------------

CR said "therefore, by man the problem must be rectified "
------------------------------------------------------------------
which begins the PURPOSE of the Events of Jesus Life.

Jesus states that He Came Down From Heaven - but for what Purpose ?

To Save Men from the Finality of Death by bringing IMMORTALITY to man for Obedience.

B-U-T the Carnal Man Can NOT Obey because of the Strong Reproductive Chemicals of the Apple and the Temptations of the Devil.

So, Mankind needs Extra HELP !!!

So Enters God into the World to Save them from themselves.

But he cannot be GOD because that would nullify the CONTEST RULES BETWEEN GOD AND SATAN.

MAN WHO IS HALF GOD AND HALF DEVIL - ONLY MUST OVERCOME THE DEVIL AND BECOME LIKE GOD.

Ge 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
De 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
--------------------------------------
Therefore, Behold the Man , Jesus who has Overcome the Devil and the Apple
and Won the Contest between God and Satan and FREED Mankind from the
Penalty of Death and given Godly Eternal Life to Man in the Form of a God given Spirit
that Changes the Mind of Man toward OBEDIENCE TO GOD.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,

and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

============================================

Cross Reference
January 31st, 2016, 10:52 AM
??? I have no idea what you are saying, and cannot diagram your sentence.

Sure you can if and when you want to and, of course, if you know the gospel. Obviously abbre. however, it's all there. Take it word by word if necessary.

OCTOBER23
January 31st, 2016, 11:40 AM
.CR said,

" with that result being the Word of God re-entering Jesus, Son of Man raised from the grave resulting in the Godhead being glorified in human flesh! HIS!"

Oh , I see what you are saying that Jesus' SPIRIT WENT UP TO HEAVEN
AND BECAME GOD AND CAME BACK DOWN INTO THE BODY.

-- MAYBE there is some Validity to this Theory.--:think:--????

---------------OR --------------------

Jesus' spirit went up to heaven and was ENERGIZED

and sent back down resulting in an Energized human body.

And thus , showing us what OUR Resurrected Bodies will Look like at First

before we Qualify for a SUPER DUPER BODY LIKE CHRIST IN REVELATION CHAPTER ONE.

Sherman
January 31st, 2016, 02:19 PM
Thread moved. Threads like these do not belong in the ECT and since you have other threads like this, the others are going to be deleted. Only one thread like this per member.

Nick M
January 31st, 2016, 02:31 PM
Before I begin explaining what “fundamentally” happened at Calvary, I would like first to clarify some of my last that landed me in hot water for reasons anti-thetical to objective thinking:

There is much wrong in your post. There is no reason to go to the conclusion when the conclusion is based upon things that are just no so.

What fundamentally happened at Calvary is the Father poured his wrath out on the Son and it pleased him to do so.



Jesus was not God before His “Resurrection.He was the only begotten, Son of God, subjected to his Father's will for the purpose of revealing all aspects of God and providing a way of rectification whereby man could be restored to having direct communion with Him.

Jesus was not God is directly refuted including being subject to the Father in the flesh. The Word was God and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. That defeats the first part and as such there is no reason to even mention the Father's will. But I will do it anyway.

When he became flesh, he was made lower than the angels.


Hebrews 2

7 You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.

Phillipans 2

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


A. Had He been God He could not have died. His human death was required. God can’t die.

If you define "die" then I will gladly address this. I am not counting on it. We can start with the simple stuff.