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CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 03:01 PM
According to scripture Christians are divided against each other by Secret Societies, and as to what correct doctrine is. All bible versions of today are produced by Secret Societies. Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.

aikido7
November 12th, 2015, 03:35 PM
According to scripture Christians are divided against each other by Secret Societies, and as to what correct doctrine is. All bible versions of today are produced by Secret Societies. Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.Just as it was, it is the same now.

Many of the slander and vitriol against “other” groups had to do with conflict between competing theologies. Paul’s letters really reflect this. So does the anti-Semitism put into Jesus’s mouth by John.

When the Jesus people began getting kicked out of the synagogues both sides saw themselves as doing right by God. Conflict was inevitable.

genuineoriginal
November 12th, 2015, 06:31 PM
Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.
Which Orthodox teachings?
The teachings of the Pharisees or of the Sadducees?

Well, it really doesn't matter, since Jesus opposed both of the Orthodox teachings of Judaism during His ministry.

CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 07:09 PM
Which Orthodox teachings?
The teachings of the Pharisees or of the Sadducees?

Well, it really doesn't matter, since Jesus opposed both of the Orthodox teachings of Judaism during His ministry.

Lol, very funny. Do you really think Yahshua opposed Orthodox Judaism to introduce Paganism? Now stop and think, was Christ opposed to the Rabbi's teachings, or was he opposed to Orthodox Judaism? Note: If Christ was a law breaker, then he was not the perfect lamb of sacrifice.

CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 07:14 PM
Just as it was, it is the same now.

Many of the slander and vitriol against “other” groups had to do with conflict between competing theologies. Paul’s letters really reflect this. So does the anti-Semitism put into Jesus’s mouth by John.

When the Jesus people began getting kicked out of the synagogues both sides saw themselves as doing right by God. Conflict was inevitable.

There were two different groups, the sheep, and the goats. Some of the Jews followed Yahshua, believing that he was the Messiah to come. The other Jews were members of Secret Society, and they did not believe he was the Messiah.

CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 07:24 PM
There are two kinds of Christians in the world, Judaic Christians, and Pagan Christians.

The Pagan Christians added Messiah worship to scriptures, that detours Jews from following Yahshua as the Messiah.

You shall have no other (gods / elohiyms,) but me, say Yahwah. Orthodox Jews have never believed in Trinitarianism. Trinitarianism was also added to scriptures by the Pagan Christians.

genuineoriginal
November 12th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Lol, very funny. Do you really think Yahshua opposed Orthodox Judaism to introduce Paganism?
Jesus did not promote Paganism, but He did oppose Orthodox Judaism.


Now stop and think, was Christ opposed to the Rabbi's teachings, or was he opposed to Orthodox Judaism?
Both, because they are the same thing.
Maybe you don't know what Orthodox means?

_____
orthodox
of, relating to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc.
of, relating to, or conforming to beliefs, attitudes, or modes of conduct that are generally approved.
_____
What we call Orthodox Judaism is Rabbinical (Pharisaic) Judaism.


Note: If Christ was a law breaker, then he was not the perfect lamb of sacrifice.
I never said Jesus was a law breaker.

CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 08:52 PM
Jesus did not promote Paganism, but He did oppose Orthodox Judaism.


Both, because they are the same thing.
Maybe you don't know what Orthodox means?

_____
orthodox
of, relating to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc.
of, relating to, or conforming to beliefs, attitudes, or modes of conduct that are generally approved.
_____
What we call Orthodox Judaism is Rabbinical (Pharisaic) Judaism.


I never said Jesus was a law breaker.

Yahshua was opposed to the unrighteous laws that the Rabbi's were teaching. You need to understand that what is truly a Orthodox teaching is not what is always taught. Pagan Christians added Pagan beliefs to scriptures. That is why knowing history and having a study bible is so very important.

CherubRam
November 12th, 2015, 09:47 PM
Did you read my thread on Hell? http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105705

Bradley D
November 13th, 2015, 02:07 AM
Jesus was against the oral law with its 613 commandments that even the religious leaders could not keep. Jesus criticized them for laying such law on the backs of the people.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 03:51 AM
Jesus was against the oral law with its 613 commandments that even the religious leaders could not keep. Jesus criticized them for laying such law on the backs of the people.

From Wikipedia: According to Rabbinic Judaism, the Oral Torah or Oral Law (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh, lit "Torah that is spoken") represents those laws, statutes, and legal interpretations that were not recorded in the Five Books of Moses, the "Written Torah" (Hebrew: תורה שבכתב, Torah she-bi-khtav, lit.

dialm
November 13th, 2015, 04:10 AM
Jesus was against the oral law with its 613 commandments that even the religious leaders could not keep. Jesus criticized them for laying such law on the backs of the people.

We must be careful as we cannot keep any of the Law. It is to much for us. We are too weak.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 04:13 AM
Jesus was against the oral law with its 613 commandments that even the religious leaders could not keep. Jesus criticized them for laying such law on the backs of the people.

Yahshua was against the Rabbi's oral teachings that did not agree with scriptures.

As for being Christians under the New Covenant, there are only two legal aspects to consider, the Seventh Day Sabbath, and the moral commands of God.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 04:16 AM
We must be careful as we cannot keep any of the Law. It is to much for us. We are too weak.

God forgives those who truly repent. God's moral commands have not been done away with in this New Covenant.

Jonahdog
November 13th, 2015, 04:36 AM
Fear of The Other.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 05:53 AM
Fear of The Other.

Is fear of the other justified? Most of the time there is reason to fear.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 05:54 AM
According to scripture Christians are divided against each other by Secret Societies, and as to what correct doctrine is. All bible versions of today are produced by Secret Societies. Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.

Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible.:think:

genuineoriginal
November 13th, 2015, 06:33 AM
Yahshua was opposed to the unrighteous laws that the Rabbi's were teaching. You need to understand that what is truly a Orthodox teaching is not what is always taught.
You need to understand that Orthodox has nothing to do with the truth and everything to do with conformity to the established religious practices and teachings.

So, stop using the word Orthodox incorrectly.

genuineoriginal
November 13th, 2015, 06:36 AM
We must be careful as we cannot keep any of the Law. It is to much for us. We are too weak.

God said differently, why don't you believe what He said?

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

genuineoriginal
November 13th, 2015, 06:39 AM
Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible.:think:

Have you looked into the Complete Jewish Bible?

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 08:21 AM
Have you looked into the Complete Jewish Bible?

I just took a look at the so called Jewish translations. They are not worth a damn. They are not Orthodox, but Pagan.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 08:25 AM
You need to understand that Orthodox has nothing to do with the truth and everything to do with conformity to the established religious practices and teachings.

So, stop using the word Orthodox incorrectly.
Paganism joined to God is not orthodox doctrine.
Sound or correct in opinion or doctrine, especially theological or religious doctrine.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 08:32 AM
When I say Judaic Christian Bible, I mean not so much as a hint of Paganism in it. FYI. The Catholics destroyed the original text and supplied their own Pagan versions of scriptures. In the original New Testament scriptures was the name of God. That is the tip of the iceberg. And the list goes on and on.

Bradley D
November 14th, 2015, 10:49 PM
Yahshua was against the Rabbi's oral teachings that did not agree with scriptures.

As for being Christians under the New Covenant, there are only two legal aspects to consider, the Seventh Day Sabbath, and the moral commands of God.

There are only two "legal aspects" for me to consider.

Love God and Love Neighbor.

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40).

If a Christian follows these two commandments they will be keeping all of God's Commandments.

brewmama
November 14th, 2015, 10:58 PM
According to scripture Christians are divided against each other by Secret Societies, and as to what correct doctrine is. All bible versions of today are produced by Secret Societies. Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.

So? Jesus used the septuagint.

brewmama
November 14th, 2015, 11:01 PM
When I say Judaic Christian Bible, I mean not so much as a hint of Paganism in it. FYI. The Catholics destroyed the original text and supplied their own Pagan versions of scriptures. In the original New Testament scriptures was the name of God. That is the tip of the iceberg. And the list goes on and on.

Ahh, now I getcha. :freak:

aikido7
November 14th, 2015, 11:22 PM
Peter against Paul.
Nicodemus against Jesus.
TOL Christians against TOL Christians.

Life goes on....

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 03:15 AM
There are only two "legal aspects" for me to consider.

Love God and Love Neighbor.

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40).

If a Christian follows these two commandments they will be keeping all of God's Commandments.

For the love of God will you keep His Sabbath?

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 03:17 AM
So? Jesus used the septuagint.

There is no reason to believe that.

Lazy afternoon
November 15th, 2015, 07:06 AM
There are only two "legal aspects" for me to consider.

Love God and Love Neighbor.

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40).

If a Christian follows these two commandments they will be keeping all of God's Commandments.

If you study Gods law you will see those two great commandments are defined into things you can understand so you can apply them.

You do not have to literalize everything if you have understanding in your heart.

For example, if you see your neighbours animal astray then you can bring it back to your neigbour, or you can say tough luck buddy it is not my concern.

Which action would be the keeping of Gods law in loving your neighbor?

Now if you say that you do not have to bring back to your neighbour his purse you found because the law does not say that then you do what the Pharisees did and do, who break Gods law.

LA

Lazy afternoon
November 15th, 2015, 07:13 AM
For the love of God will you keep His Sabbath?

One problem you may have is that if you keep the Sabbath as written in the law by not working on the 7th day, but do not keep the Sabbath of the heart, then your Sabbath keeping is worthless.

Also it is that if you keep the Sabbath in the heart, then you are keeping the law even if you can not rest on the 7th day.

Such a person of course who is keeping the law in the heart is not working for selfish things.

If you believe you are keeping the Sabbath law by only resting on the 7th day then you have not yet found rest in Christ.

LA

daqq
November 15th, 2015, 08:12 AM
When I say Judaic Christian Bible, I mean not so much as a hint of Paganism in it. FYI. The Catholics destroyed the original text and supplied their own Pagan versions of scriptures. In the original New Testament scriptures was the name of God. That is the tip of the iceberg. And the list goes on and on.

There simply is no evidence for what you have said in the portion highlighted in yellow. In fact there is enough evidence to understand where exactly the Name is implied, that is, at least in the Gospel accounts which are the cornerstone containing the Testimony of Yeshua and many Tanach quotes, (and, yes, mostly from the Septuagint as someone else has already said). In the Septuagint, where we see the Name having been rendered as "Kurios", we do not find the definite article because the translators of the Septuagint follow this practice from the Hebrew, (Hebrew does not tolerate a definite article with proper nouns such as names). This same practice is likewise followed in the Apostolic writings because the authors follow the practice carried over from the Septuagint. Therefore, if you pay close enough attention in your studies, you may know when Kurios is employed for the Name and when it rather means "the Master" because whenever you see Kurios, Kuriou, Kurie, etc., with the definite article it does not mean the Name of YHWH but rather, "the Master", "the Lord", etc., etc., (but this does become a little fuzzy sometimes in the writings of Paul which is why we need the Gospel accounts and the Testimony of Yeshua to set the standard and tone for the writings of Paul). Here is just one simple example in transliteration:

Matthew 1:20 Transliterated Unaccented
20. tauta de autou enthumethentos idou angelos Kuriou kat onar efane auto legon "Iosef huios Dauid me fobethes paralabein Mariam ten gunaika sou to gar en aute gennethen ek Pneumatos estin Hagiou

We see no article with "angelos Kuriou" which is therefore "Angel of YHWH".

Matthew 1:20
20. But thinking on these things, behold, [a] Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yosef, son of David, fear not to receive your woman, Mariam, for that generated in her is from Spirit, it is Hagiou.

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 01:33 PM
There simply is no evidence for what you have said in the portion highlighted in yellow. In fact there is enough evidence to understand where exactly the Name is implied, that is, at least in the Gospel accounts which are the cornerstone containing the Testimony of Yeshua and many Tanach quotes, (and, yes, mostly from the Septuagint as someone else has already said). In the Septuagint, where we see the Name having been rendered as "Kurios", we do not find the definite article because the translators of the Septuagint follow this practice from the Hebrew, (Hebrew does not tolerate a definite article with proper nouns such as names). This same practice is likewise followed in the Apostolic writings because the authors follow the practice carried over from the Septuagint. Therefore, if you pay close enough attention in your studies, you may know when Kurios is employed for the Name and when it rather means "the Master" because whenever you see Kurios, Kuriou, Kurie, etc., with the definite article it does not mean the Name of YHWH but rather, "the Master", "the Lord", etc., etc., (but this does become a little fuzzy sometimes in the writings of Paul which is why we need the Gospel accounts and the Testimony of Yeshua to set the standard and tone for the writings of Paul). Here is just one simple example in transliteration:

Matthew 1:20 Transliterated Unaccented
20. tauta de autou enthumethentos idou angelos Kuriou kat onar efane auto legon "Iosef huios Dauid me fobethes paralabein Mariam ten gunaika sou to gar en aute gennethen ek Pneumatos estin Hagiou

We see no article with "angelos Kuriou" which is therefore "Angel of YHWH".

Matthew 1:20
20. But thinking on these things, behold, [a] Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yosef, son of David, fear not to receive your woman, Mariam, for that generated in her is from Spirit, it is Hagiou.

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

After killing Hebrew Christians, the Jews would take the New testament scripture written in Hebrew, and carefully cut the name of God out. Then they would place the divine name in a safe place to keep. Following that, they then would burn the remainder of the scrolls in a fire. Rabbi Yose who lived during the second century AD states that, "One cuts out the reference to the Divine Name which are in them [the New Testament writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns." One of his characteristic sayings is, "He who proclaimed the coming of the Messiah,[John] and he who hated scholars [Yahshua] and his disciples; and that false prophet and those slanderers, will have no part in the future world."

According to Wilhelm Bacher this was directed against the Hebrew Christians. And so it is an established fact then, that the disciples of Christ did in fact write the Holy Name of God into the original New Testament.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”

Where do you see the name Yahwah in the New Testament?

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 01:34 PM
One problem you may have is that if you keep the Sabbath as written in the law by not working on the 7th day, but do not keep the Sabbath of the heart, then your Sabbath keeping is worthless.

Also it is that if you keep the Sabbath in the heart, then you are keeping the law even if you can not rest on the 7th day.

Such a person of course who is keeping the law in the heart is not working for selfish things.

If you believe you are keeping the Sabbath law by only resting on the 7th day then you have not yet found rest in Christ.

LA
Will you show us this scripture you are talking about?

daqq
November 15th, 2015, 02:05 PM
Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

After killing Hebrew Christians, the Jews would take the New testament scripture written in Hebrew, and carefully cut the name of God out. Then they would place the divine name in a safe place to keep. Following that, they then would burn the remainder of the scrolls in a fire. Rabbi Yose who lived during the second century AD states that, "One cuts out the reference to the Divine Name which are in them [the New Testament writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns." One of his characteristic sayings is, "He who proclaimed the coming of the Messiah,[John] and he who hated scholars [Yahshua] and his disciples; and that false prophet and those slanderers, will have no part in the future world."

According to Wilhelm Bacher this was directed against the Hebrew Christians. And so it is an established fact then, that the disciples of Christ did in fact write the Holy Name of God into the original New Testament.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”

Where do you see the name Yahwah in the New Testament?

If it was originally there I do not think it would have been the same as your own unique English transliteration "spelling". However the Name of the Father is not just a spelling but rather, as everyone should know, a name invokes character, quality, attributes, authority, testimony, and many other qualities. To be immersed in the name of the Father, (Matthew 28:19) is to be immersed in all of His Word which is Torah at the very least and more likely all of TaNaK, (and the name of the Son is at the very least the Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts). For the same reason Yeshua does not need to speak the name of the Father in the passages you quote from because his disciples had been with him throughout his earthly ministry and, thus, he had immersed them in the name of the Father by his teachings, parables, and doctrines. I therefore do not believe the name of the Father was even supposed to originally have been in those passages because it would detract from the fuller meaning. In addition I believe the KJV is more correct in rendering the passage you quote from, (John 17:11) and this is shown by the overall context:

John 17:6-26 KJV
6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This passage has nothing to do with the spelling of the name of the Father and, if it was indeed written therein, it would detract from the supernal depth of the meaning of the passage. In addition the context does not fit with your version of John 17:11 which purports to say that Yeshua was given the same name as that of the Father YHWH. Every other statement surrounding that statement concerns those whom the Father gave to the Son with the only exception being the son of perdition so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 02:59 PM
If it was originally there I do not think it would have been the same as your own unique English transliteration "spelling". However the Name of the Father is not just a spelling but rather, as everyone should know, a name invokes character, quality, attributes, authority, testimony, and many other qualities. To be immersed in the name of the Father, (Matthew 28:19) is to be immersed in all of His Word which is Torah at the very least and more likely all of TaNaK, (and the name of the Son is at the very least the Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts). For the same reason Yeshua does not need to speak the name of the Father in the passages you quote from because his disciples had been with him throughout his earthly ministry and, thus, he had immersed them in the name of the Father by his teachings, parables, and doctrines. I therefore do not believe the name of the Father was even supposed to originally have been in those passages because it would detract from the fuller meaning. In addition I believe the KJV is more correct in rendering the passage you quote from, (John 17:11) and this is shown by the overall context:

John 17:6-26 KJV
6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This passage has nothing to do with the spelling of the name of the Father and, if it was indeed written therein, it would detract from the supernal depth of the meaning of the passage. In addition the context does not fit with your version of John 17:11 which purports to say that Yeshua was given the same name as that of the Father YHWH. Every other statement surrounding that statement concerns those whom the Father gave to the Son with the only exception being the son of perdition so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

There are Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, for which in the original Old Testament text shows God's personal name.

The word "manifest" means to (make known.)

man·i·fest1
ˈmanəˌfest/
adjective
adjective: manifest

1.
clear or obvious to the eye or mind.
"the system's manifest failings"
synonyms: obvious, clear, plain, apparent, evident, patent, palpable, distinct, definite, blatant, overt, glaring, barefaced, explicit, transparent, conspicuous, undisguised, unmistakable, noticeable, perceptible, visible, recognizable
"his manifest lack of interest"
antonyms: secret

verb
verb: manifest; 3rd person present: manifests; past tense: manifested; past participle: manifested; gerund or present participle: manifesting

1.
display or show (a quality or feeling) by one's acts or appearance; demonstrate.
"Ray manifested signs of severe depression"
synonyms: display, show, exhibit, demonstrate, betray, present, reveal; formalevince
"she manifested signs of depression"

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 03:02 PM
Yahwah is the modern day spelling for Iahuah. IHUH. There is no vowel between the first and last name.

brewmama
November 15th, 2015, 04:30 PM
There is no reason to believe that.

Besides the fact that he quoted it you mean?

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 05:31 PM
Besides the fact that he quoted it you mean?

The translators have Yahshua quoting the Septuagint about 90% of the time. Comparing the oldest New Testament quotes to the latest ones, there is an indication that translators made it appear Yahshua used the Septuagint; when actually it was the Masoretic. Being the first born, Yahshua would have learned the Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. Mary his mother was from a Levite family. And his father Joseph was from the Royal line.

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 05:50 PM
The Septuagint is a poor translation of scriptures. What is good about the Septuagint, is that it shows which text belong in the bible. The Masoretic text had some text added to them at a late date, most likely by the Hellenistic Jews.

aikido7
November 15th, 2015, 05:54 PM
According to scripture Christians are divided against each other by Secret Societies, and as to what correct doctrine is. All bible versions of today are produced by Secret Societies. Not one bible of today is a Judaic Bible. Judaic means, pertaining to Orthodox teachings of the original Judaism.Christian against Christian is a normal stage of religion when differing traditions and theologies inevitably arise between two groups.

The communities Paul wrote to were divided. The differing interpretations of Jesus is another example as two or more groups of followers began to try and decide "who was right." This is the inevitable outcome of the interpretation of men. The Bible has human fingerprints all over it.

CherubRam
November 15th, 2015, 10:42 PM
Christian against Christian is a normal stage of religion when differing traditions and theologies inevitably arise between two groups.

The communities Paul wrote to were divided. The differing interpretations of Jesus is another example as two or more groups of followers began to try and decide "who was right." This is the inevitable outcome of the interpretation of men. The Bible has human fingerprints all over it.

The real Christians were in constant conflict with the Gnostic and Pagan Christians. The Judaizing Christians were the ones who had the original scriptures. That should tell you something.

Bradley D
November 15th, 2015, 10:54 PM
For the love of God will you keep His Sabbath?

Being that I am retired and disabled I pretty much keep the Sabbath everyday. I am blessed to be able to study the Bible everyday. Everyday is a blessing and holy to me.

I believe that observing the Sabbath on a Saturday has a scriptural basis. However, it is important to remember that Jesus taught it was good to do good works on the Sabbath. Although I believe many Christians have stretched out what they consider good works to the limit and beyond.

Bradley D
November 15th, 2015, 11:03 PM
For example, if you see your neighbours animal astray then you can bring it back to your neigbour, or you can say tough luck buddy it is not my concern.

Which action would be the keeping of Gods law in loving your neighbor?

Now if you say that you do not have to bring back to your neighbour his purse you found because the law does not say that then you do what the Pharisees did and do, who break Gods law.

LA

If one truly believes and Loves God and Neighbor the Spirit will let them know what is right and wrong in all things.

Lazy afternoon
November 16th, 2015, 01:51 AM
One problem you may have is that if you keep the Sabbath as written in the law by not working on the 7th day, but do not keep the Sabbath of the heart, then your Sabbath keeping is worthless.

Also it is that if you keep the Sabbath in the heart, then you are keeping the law even if you can not rest on the 7th day.

Such a person of course who is keeping the law in the heart is not working for selfish things.

If you believe you are keeping the Sabbath law by only resting on the 7th day then you have not yet found rest in Christ.

LA


Will you show us this scripture you are talking about?

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

LA

CherubRam
November 16th, 2015, 02:15 AM
Being that I am retired and disabled I pretty much keep the Sabbath everyday. I am blessed to be able to study the Bible everyday. Everyday is a blessing and holy to me.

I believe that observing the Sabbath on a Saturday has a scriptural basis. However, it is important to remember that Jesus taught it was good to do good works on the Sabbath. Although I believe many Christians have stretched out what they consider good works to the limit and beyond.

Thank you for your reply.:)

CherubRam
November 16th, 2015, 02:21 AM
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

LA

The "REST" being spoken of is in relation to the resurrection of the Elect. In Romans Paul is speaking of Israelis keeping the law, but lacking in faith.

Lazy afternoon
November 16th, 2015, 05:21 PM
The "REST" being spoken of is in relation to the resurrection of the Elect. In Romans Paul is speaking of Israelis keeping the law, but lacking in faith.

None are required to labour to enter the resurrection.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

LA

CherubRam
November 16th, 2015, 05:45 PM
None are required to labour to enter the resurrection.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

LA
We do indeed work to enter the resurrection of the Elect.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest...

Lazy afternoon
November 16th, 2015, 07:41 PM
We do indeed work to enter the resurrection of the Elect.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest...

That rest is the rest in Christ now, not a future resurrection.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

LA

CherubRam
November 16th, 2015, 08:32 PM
That rest is the rest in Christ now, not a future resurrection.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

LA
When Christ ascended into heaven he entered God's rest. We have not entered heaven yet.

Jerome84
November 17th, 2015, 06:58 AM
God is love and forgiveness. God is the judge, not man.

To often, man takes the role as God, and judges and points out whats wrong and right. Only God knows this. Men can never really know. Not for sure.