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Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 02:07 PM
The answer is very simple.

God does not impose salvation on anyone for several reasons.

1. Salvation is a gift from God.

There are numerous scriptures that tell us savation is a gift from God that has been provided for us by his Son Jesus Christ. In Romans 5:15-18 The word "gift" is mentioned 5 times. And then there are many other scriptures that refer to salvation as a gift from God.

2. Does God really need to make people love him?

According to Calvinism, God had to elect "Some certain Persons" before the foundation of the world to be his own special people. He has to make them love or like him. It appears that God is such a tyrant that he just can't trust people to love or like him by their own free wills. So, he imposes salvation on them.

3. Salvation is by grace through faith.

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. God was merciful in sending Jesus into the world to provide salvation for fallen man. In the Old Testament they were justified by believing in God's promise of a savior. In the New Testament we are justified by believing that Jesus is our savior. Nothing has changed, we are justified by faith and by faith alone. And not by being predestinated or by having salvation imposed upon us.

The God of the Bible imposes salvation on no one. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Jesus to save you, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Bright Raven
November 11th, 2015, 02:11 PM
Pretty simple.

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 03:44 PM
Pretty simple.

It is all very simple.

It is the religious folk that complicate it.

Wednesday Addams
November 11th, 2015, 04:19 PM
Yup. Salvation is a gift from God. Those who seek the only true God will be gifted with salvation. The whole point is that we are the ones who must seek Him. That is what we are to do with our own free will.

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 04:29 PM
Yup. Salvation is a gift from God. Those who seek the only true God will be gifted with salvation. The whole point is that we are the ones who must seek Him. That is what we are to do with our own free will.

Yes, if we don't come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him we will hear those dreadful words... "Depart from me, I never knew you" Matthew 7:23.

Ben Masada
November 11th, 2015, 04:41 PM
Because first, He granted us with Freewill. Hence, He cannot impose salvation on us if we do not want. But that's not absolute. HaShem can impose something on us in case of Pichuach Nephesh. I mean, if there is something else more important than to respect our attribute of Freewill; as for instance to save our physical life.

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 05:43 PM
Because first, He granted us with Freewill. Hence, He cannot impose salvation on us if we do not want. But that's not absolute. HaShem can impose something on us in case of Pichuach Nephesh. I mean, if there is something else more important than to respect our attribute of Freewill; as for instance to save our physical life.

What is Pichuach Nephesh?

relaff
November 11th, 2015, 06:07 PM
Here's my take:

The basic problem is sin. We're all sinners and God does not love sin. Actually the penalty for sin is death, hence all the sacrifices before Jesus came. Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice, himself being unblemished. If we believe in Him and will accept Him as our savior, his sacrifice washes our sins away and we can be saved.

So agree with 1 and 3 from the OP, but have a different opinion on 2 (or maybe I just misunderstand it): Gods wants us to love Him, because he "enjoys" being loved. But he neither "needs" it or does he force His love on us. He wants us to love him out of our free will.

Wednesday Addams
November 11th, 2015, 06:12 PM
Here's my take:

The basic problem is sin. We're all sinners and God does not love sin. Actually the penalty for sin is death, hence all the sacrifices before Jesus came. Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice, himself being unblemished. If we believe in Him and will accept Him as our savior, his sacrifice washes our sins away and we can be saved.

So agree with 1 and 3 from the OP, but have a different opinion on 2 (or maybe I just misunderstand it): Gods wants us to love Him, because he "enjoys" being loved. But he neither "needs" it or does he force His love on us. He wants us to love him out of our free will.

Jesus didn't really give the ultimate sacrifice tbh because the disciples and new Jewish followers of Jesus continue to offer sacrifices at the temple up until the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem.

But your conclusion is what I agree with, and tbh it's summed up nicely in an authentic Islamic Qudsi hadith (God's sayings, not Muhammad's like a traditional hadith, that aren't in the Qur'an).
“I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known; then they knew Me.” Hadith Qudsi.

Nanja
November 11th, 2015, 06:19 PM
Yup. Salvation is a gift from God. Those who seek the only true God will be gifted with salvation. The whole point is that we are the ones who must seek Him. That is what we are to do with our own free will.


Nope. There is none that seek after God Rom. 3:11.

Our own freewill?
No. God's Salvation is according to His Will Dan. 4:35 not the will of the created thing.

God had Chosen those in Christ whom He predestinated to become His Adopted Sons Eph. 1:4-5
according to His own Purpose and Grace, not according to what they willed.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
November 12th, 2015, 08:34 AM
Nope. There is none that seek after God Rom. 3:11.

Our own freewill?
No. God's Salvation is according to His Will Dan. 4:35 not the will of the created thing.

God had Chosen those in Christ whom He predestinated to become His Adopted Sons Eph. 1:4-5
according to His own Purpose and Grace, not according to what they willed.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

~~~~~


Some do seek after God, but not all.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ, Revelation 3:20.

"Today if you hear his voice , harden not your hearts, as in the provocation" Hebrews 3:15.

You apparently have hardened your heart towards Christ.

Instead of coming to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him you have gone off into a false religion called Calvinism.

John Calvin is NOT the way, the truth and the life. Jesus is.

TulipBee
November 13th, 2015, 06:15 AM
Imposing and saving are not related

beloved57
November 13th, 2015, 07:14 AM
The answer is very simple.

God does not impose salvation on anyone for several reasons.

1. Salvation is a gift from God.

There are numerous scriptures that tell us savation is a gift from God that has been provided for us by his Son Jesus Christ. In Romans 5:15-18 The word "gift" is mentioned 5 times. And then there are many other scriptures that refer to salvation as a gift from God.

2. Does God really need to make people love him?

According to Calvinism, God had to elect "Some certain Persons" before the foundation of the world to be his own special people. He has to make them love or like him. It appears that God is such a tyrant that he just can't trust people to love or like him by their own free wills. So, he imposes salvation on them.

3. Salvation is by grace through faith.

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. God was merciful in sending Jesus into the world to provide salvation for fallen man. In the Old Testament they were justified by believing in God's promise of a savior. In the New Testament we are justified by believing that Jesus is our savior. Nothing has changed, we are justified by faith and by faith alone. And not by being predestinated or by having salvation imposed upon us.

The God of the Bible imposes salvation on no one. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Jesus to save you, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

You dont even believe Christ's Death alone saved all for whom He died, you make Him a Failure as a Saviour.

Now say you dont believe that many for whom Christ shall end up lost in their sins in unbelief !

Truster
November 13th, 2015, 02:03 PM
The answer is very simple.

God does not impose salvation on anyone for several reasons.

1. Salvation is a gift from God.

There are numerous scriptures that tell us savation is a gift from God that has been provided for us by his Son Jesus Christ. In Romans 5:15-18 The word "gift" is mentioned 5 times. And then there are many other scriptures that refer to salvation as a gift from God.

2. Does God really need to make people love him?

According to Calvinism, God had to elect "Some certain Persons" before the foundation of the world to be his own special people. He has to make them love or like him. It appears that God is such a tyrant that he just can't trust people to love or like him by their own free wills. So, he imposes salvation on them.

3. Salvation is by grace through faith.

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. God was merciful in sending Jesus into the world to provide salvation for fallen man. In the Old Testament they were justified by believing in God's promise of a savior. In the New Testament we are justified by believing that Jesus is our savior. Nothing has changed, we are justified by faith and by faith alone. And not by being predestinated or by having salvation imposed upon us.

The God of the Bible imposes salvation on no one. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Jesus to save you, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

If Yah Veh had not come into the garden to seek Adam and Eve they would still be hiding. The children of Adam still hide and that's why the Messiah said He has come to seek and to save that which is lost.

To understand this simple principle of salvation you must first be found.

Ben Masada
November 13th, 2015, 02:19 PM
What is Pichuach Nephesh?

Pichuach Nephesh is a Jewish concept which works as an allowance to wave a commandment when another more important must be fulfilled. For example, to kill to save your own life or that of another. Also to eat pork as Jew law is concerned, when he is starving and there is absolutely nothing else to eat.

The Lord Himself used of Pichuach Nephesh when He hardened the heart of Pharaoh to hold the Israelites in Egypt and not to allow the Exodus to happen. To get the Israelites out of Egypt was much more important then to respect the Freewill of Pharaoh. Any one can use of Pichuach Nephesh but he or she must be absolutely sure that there is no other option.

intojoy
November 13th, 2015, 05:21 PM
My answer is: I don't know why he didn't choose to. Because faith is a gift.

TulipBee
November 14th, 2015, 06:52 AM
What is a gift if you got to buy it yourself?

musterion
November 14th, 2015, 06:58 AM
Why God Does NOT Impose Salvation On Anyone

Because the sole requirement of faith would then be a lie.

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 07:19 AM
The answer is very simple.

God does not impose salvation on anyone for several reasons.

1. Salvation is a gift from God.

There are numerous scriptures that tell us savation is a gift from God that has been provided for us by his Son Jesus Christ. In Romans 5:15-18 The word "gift" is mentioned 5 times. And then there are many other scriptures that refer to salvation as a gift from God.

2. Does God really need to make people love him?

According to Calvinism, God had to elect "Some certain Persons" before the foundation of the world to be his own special people. He has to make them love or like him. It appears that God is such a tyrant that he just can't trust people to love or like him by their own free wills. So, he imposes salvation on them.

3. Salvation is by grace through faith.

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. God was merciful in sending Jesus into the world to provide salvation for fallen man. In the Old Testament they were justified by believing in God's promise of a savior. In the New Testament we are justified by believing that Jesus is our savior. Nothing has changed, we are justified by faith and by faith alone. And not by being predestinated or by having salvation imposed upon us.

The God of the Bible imposes salvation on no one. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Jesus to save you, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
Focusing on point two, which is where the bulk of the Calvinist opposition will come from, your thread might have been entitled...

Why God Does NOT Impose Love On Anyone?

God does not because God cannot!

God cannot do the irrational. To say otherwise is to believe in fairy tales and magic.

God cannot make perfect spheres with more than one side, He cannot go to a place that does not exist, He cannot create without making something, He cannot be just and do unjust things and He cannot force someone to love.

Love is a choice, by definition and thus cannot be forced.


Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;



Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Resting in Him,
Clete

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 08:03 AM
Of course God doesn't impose salvation on anyone, He just gives it to His elect for whom Christ died! They have it while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 for to be reconciled to God is Salvation, that means all has been forgiven !

disturbo
November 14th, 2015, 08:23 AM
Of course God doesn't impose salvation on anyone, He just gives it to His elect for whom Christ died! They have it while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 for to be reconciled to God is Salvation, that means all has been forgiven !

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 08:27 AM
The only enemy of God who ever was promised eternal life before he died was the penitent thief on the cross. God can't give salvation to his elect because he would be giving to them something they already possess...they already have it. No person has salvation while they were enemies of God. The cross lies in the middle of one being a condemned enemy, or saved friend of God.

So how about you show me how one who fits the description of 'enemy' can be "SAVED!"

hated, odious, hateful
hostile, hating, and opposing another
used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
opposing (God) in the mind
a man that is hostile
a certain enemy
the hostile one
the devil who is the most bitter enemy of the divine government.
____________________________

What you believe actually takes everything the cross stands for but you don't care.

I know nothing of your god and your salvation!

The God I serve, His People had Salvation,Reconciliation and Forgiveness while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 02:36 PM
I know nothing of your god and your salvation!
Well I can't argue with this.

The longer I go, the more I am convinced that Calvinism, at least of the sort you believe in, is an entirely different religion and that its followers have been given over to a debased mind. I've all but decided to stop debating with Calvinists of your stripe except to whatever degree doing so serves my own purposes. It's a complete waste of time to try to convince Calvinist of anything, because their minds do not operate under any set of rules that would permit even the theoretical falsification of their doctrine. A point that they do not deny, by the way. They are openly, proudly, piously irrational.

Resting in Him,
Clete

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 02:51 PM
clete

Well I can't argue with this.


The longer I go, the more I am convinced that Calvinism, at least of the sort you believe in, is an entirely different religion and that its followers have been given over to a debased mind.

And just think, this is your comment of the True Gospel, you know that makes you an unbeliever !

Nanja
November 14th, 2015, 02:57 PM
clete

Well I can't argue with this.



And just think, this is your comment of the True Gospel, you know that makes you an unbeliever !


That's right!

~~~~~

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 03:06 PM
clete

Well I can't argue with this.



And just think, this is your comment of the True Gospel, you know that makes you an unbeliever !

Well we cannot both be right and so if what you believe is correct then, yes, I am an enemy, not just of you but of your god as well. I do not, will not, submit to an unjust being of any kind. Of course you believe that your god will force me to do so but that's just being bullied not actually submitting.

As for me, I know that you will submit to the God of justice and you will do so willingly, understanding fully the blasphemy you not only believed but taught others to believe.

Resting in Him,
Clete

jamie
November 14th, 2015, 03:16 PM
Resting in Him,


What does resting in him mean?

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 03:41 PM
Well we cannot both be right and so if what you believe is correct then, yes, I am an enemy, not just of you but of your god as well. I do not, will not, submit to an unjust being of any kind. Of course you believe that your god will force me to do so but that's just being bullied not actually submitting.

As for me, I know that you will submit to the God of justice and you will do so willingly, understanding fully the blasphemy you not only believed but taught others to believe.

Resting in Him,
Clete

You speak evil of God and His Gospel ! God has ordained that for you, See you at the Judgment !

musterion
November 14th, 2015, 04:17 PM
I know nothing of your god and your salvation!

When you're right, you're right.

musterion
November 14th, 2015, 04:19 PM
You speak evil of God and His Gospel ! God has ordained that for YOU, See you at the Judgment !

So your god IS a liar (2 Cor 5:19).

disturbo
November 14th, 2015, 04:22 PM
I know nothing of your god and your salvation!

The God I serve, His People had Salvation,Reconciliation and Forgiveness while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

disturbo
November 14th, 2015, 04:25 PM
Well I can't argue with this.

The longer I go, the more I am convinced that Calvinism, at least of the sort you believe in, is an entirely different religion and that its followers have been given over to a debased mind. I've all but decided to stop debating with Calvinists of your stripe except to whatever degree doing so serves my own purposes. It's a complete waste of time to try to convince Calvinist of anything, because their minds do not operate under any set of rules that would permit even the theoretical falsification of their doctrine. A point that they do not deny, by the way. They are openly, proudly, piously irrational.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Lazy afternoon
November 14th, 2015, 04:31 PM
Why God Does NOT Impose Salvation On Anyone - November 11th, 2015, 01:07 PM


Well actually He does at the request of those who know Him.

This is why saved men are sometimes lost afterward.

Judas was an example of that.

as also will be those who refuse the sanctifying power of Gods word, and instead settle for easy things which cost them nothing in the short term.

Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Psa 45:10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;
Psa 45:11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.
Psa 45:12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.
Psa 45:13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.
Psa 45:14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
Psa 45:15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.
Psa 45:16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.


Isa 49:14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Isa 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isa 49:17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
Isa 49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
Isa 49:19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
Isa 49:20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
Isa 49:21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?
Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.



LA

Lazy afternoon
November 14th, 2015, 04:34 PM
You sound like a real pro. Your judgmentalism is why I avoid people and organizations like you. You're an offense to Christ and His cause because it all begins with negating the efficacy of the Cross with you. You don't care that you outright PERVERT God's Word and are a hypocrite about it.

Well said.

Do you mind if I use your eloquent words to describe some others here too.

LA

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 05:05 PM
You speak evil of God and His Gospel ! God has ordained that for you, See you at the Judgment !

I speak the truth! You believe that your god does things that are unjust, by any definition of the word. You don't even deny it!

I reject that god and even you believe and state plainly that I cannot do otherwise because god said I can't. So why should I worry about a judgment I can do nothing about?

Ktoyou
November 14th, 2015, 05:08 PM
Good question, why would a determined creature attempt to do anything other than follow its instincts?

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 05:08 PM
What does resting in him mean?
Excellent question!

It is the equivalent of asking me "What is the gospel?"

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/goodnews/growth.html#ch15

Resting in Him,
Clete

Clete
November 14th, 2015, 05:16 PM
Has anyone ever stopped to think about what the point of Judgment Day is if Calvinism is right?

How does it make sense to even bother having a judgment day when it all the judgements where made by God before time began? How is it a threat to someone to speak about a Judgment Day that has, in effect, already happened? What's there to judge?

Resting in Him,
Clete

musterion
November 14th, 2015, 05:19 PM
Has anyone ever stopped to think about what the point of Judgment Day is if Calvinism is right?

Yep. Same quandary as with the Gospel: if reprobates CAN'T believe and the elect can't NOT believe, what's the point of the so-called Great Commission, of appeals to faith, of warning anyone of judgment? Meaningless.

Calvinism, taken consistently and to its logical conclusions, is an antibiblical religion designed to slander God and destroy faith in Him, which it has helped to do in Europe and here.

aikido7
November 14th, 2015, 05:25 PM
The answer is very simple.

God does not impose salvation on anyone for several reasons.

1. Salvation is a gift from God.

There are numerous scriptures that tell us savation is a gift from God that has been provided for us by his Son Jesus Christ. In Romans 5:15-18 The word "gift" is mentioned 5 times. And then there are many other scriptures that refer to salvation as a gift from God.

2. Does God really need to make people love him?

According to Calvinism, God had to elect "Some certain Persons" before the foundation of the world to be his own special people. He has to make them love or like him. It appears that God is such a tyrant that he just can't trust people to love or like him by their own free wills. So, he imposes salvation on them.

3. Salvation is by grace through faith.

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. God was merciful in sending Jesus into the world to provide salvation for fallen man. In the Old Testament they were justified by believing in God's promise of a savior. In the New Testament we are justified by believing that Jesus is our savior. Nothing has changed, we are justified by faith and by faith alone. And not by being predestinated or by having salvation imposed upon us.

The God of the Bible imposes salvation on no one. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Jesus to save you, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.Salvation IS a gift, but Jesus offered and granted salvation to many people before he was supposedly offered as a blood sacrifice in Jerusalem.

Salvation is clearly about transformation in THIS life.

Anyone--the good and the righteous or the evil and the unrighteous--only has to knock at the metaphoric door and Jesus will be revealed to them in their own lives and struggles. And they will all learn Who He IS.

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 06:04 PM
So your god IS a liar (2 Cor 5:19).

You don't believe that verse!

jamie
November 14th, 2015, 06:05 PM
Excellent question!


But it's a question Paul answers.


For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10 NKJV)

We are given salvation so we can do good works through Christ.

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 06:06 PM
I speak the truth! You believe that your god does things that are unjust, by any definition of the word. You don't even deny it!

I reject that god and even you believe and state plainly that I cannot do otherwise because god said I can't. So why should I worry about a judgment I can do nothing about?

You don't believe or speak the truth!

aikido7
November 14th, 2015, 06:19 PM
You don't believe or speak the truth!But aren’t there different beliefs and interpretations of truth always found on TOL?

If you cannot stand scrutiny or questions you probably should not be here, should you?

beloved57
November 14th, 2015, 06:20 PM
So your god IS a liar (2 Cor 5:19).

You don't believe that verse!

Clete
November 15th, 2015, 08:28 AM
But it's a question Paul answers.


For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10 NKJV)

We are given salvation so we can do good works through Christ.
Yes! I'm resting IN HIM!

The key phrase in the verse you cite is "in Christ Jesus"


Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

The point being that you cannot live the Christian life, only God can. We are identified in Christ and are righteous by virtue of that biblical fact. We are not righteous because of what we do. It is not for us to do but to be. The extent to which we do rightly is directly proportional to the extent to which we believe that we are righteous in Him. Good works do NOT come by effort but by faith.


Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.




An excerpt from the book I linked to earlier...


"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.

"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure."



Resting in Him,
Clete

Clete
November 15th, 2015, 08:33 AM
You don't believe or speak the truth!

Saying it doesn't make it so, b57!

Besides! You don't even deny a word I've said!




I swear, I honestly do not understand how this man brain keeps even his autonomic biological systems running! :kookoo:

beloved57
November 15th, 2015, 08:41 AM
Saying it doesn't make it so, b57!

Besides! You don't even deny a word I've said!




I swear, I honestly do not understand how this man brain keeps even his autonomic biological systems running! :kookoo:


Just because you quote a scripture doesn't mean you understand it and believe it, for you don't even believe the truth of the Gospel,Tulip !

jamie
November 15th, 2015, 08:58 AM
Yes! I'm resting IN HIM!


Too bad, Paul told the Thessalonian congregation, "For even when we were with you we commanded you this: If anyone will not work neither shall he eat."

Paul also wrote, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Jesus said, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will reward each according to his works." (Matthew 16:27 NKJV)

The Spirit said, "Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ "

"Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors and their works follow them." (Revelation 14:13 NKJV)

Did Paul rest or work?

musterion
November 15th, 2015, 09:00 AM
Just because you quote a scripture doesn't mean you understand it and believe it, for you don't even believe the truth of the Gospel,Tulip !

I've had you on Ignore for so long that I never noticed you call yourself "other." Why is that and what does it mean?

musterion
November 15th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Did Paul rest or work?

For salvation? He rested in Christ for all the work was done by Him.

For service? He worked like a slave, for he was His slave.

The reason you can't see the difference is because of the false gospels of work salvation that you and most others here have believed.

beloved57
November 15th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I've had you on Ignore for so long that I never noticed you call yourself "other." Why is that and what does it mean?

If you don't know,you will find out at the Judgment, I'm not here to discuss stuff like that, but to Preach and Defend the Gospel which you don't believe!

jamie
November 15th, 2015, 09:16 AM
The reason you can't see the difference is because of the false gospels of work salvation...


Grace salvation is not for spiritual retirement.

This is a day of salvation not the day of rest which we are to put forth effort to enter into.


For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (Hebrews 4:10 NKJV)

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. (Genesis 2:2 NKJV)

There remains therefore a Sabbath to the people of God.

False Prophet
November 15th, 2015, 11:08 AM
John Calvin:
“we ought indeed to entertain for the Word of God, that we ought not to pervert it in the least degree by varying expositions; for its majesty is diminished, I know not how much, especially when not expounded with great discretion and with great sobriety. And if it be deemed a great wickedness to contaminate any thing that is dedicated to God, he surely cannot be endured, who, with impure, or even with unprepared hands, will handle that very thing, which of all things is the most sacred on earth. It is therefore an audacity, closely allied to a sacrilege, rashly to turn Scripture in any way we please, and to indulge our fancies as in sport; which has been done by many in former times” (English Translation, Grand Rapids, 1947, p. 27).

Clete
November 15th, 2015, 12:17 PM
Too bad, Paul told the Thessalonian congregation, "For even when we were with you we commanded you this: If anyone will not work neither shall he eat."
This is not the same subject. He's saying that if you're lazy you aught to be hungry. He's saying that you aught to have a job and earn your food. This is not talking about salvation nor sanctification at all.


Paul also wrote, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
Yes, I addressed this already. "in Christ Jesus" is the key phrase.


Jesus said, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will reward each according to his works." (Matthew 16:27 NKJV)
This is Jesus, speaking as a Jew to the Jews under law. This is not part of the gospel of grace which was given to and through the Apostle Paul.


Galatians 1:11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.


The Spirit said, "Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ "

"Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors and their works follow them." (Revelation 14:13 NKJV)

Did Paul rest or work?
Revelation is also a book about Israel under the law but setting that aside, I don't follow your point here.

A simple word search for "works", "labor", "die" or "dead" or whatever it is that you did, isn't going to cut it. I know precisely what I believe and why I believe it. If you think your hack job is going to be persuasive, your mistaken. If you don't understand what I believe and want to ask questions then I'm happy to answer them but don't waste my time and insult my intelligence with superficial proof-texting.


Resting in Him,
Clete