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OCTOBER23
November 11th, 2015, 08:17 AM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 08:23 AM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================


What else is new?

The Catholic church has been putting down Christ and his Gospel from the get go.

patrick jane
November 11th, 2015, 08:32 AM
What else is new?

The Catholic church has been putting down Christ and his Gospel from the get go.

This story was posted about when he was in the United States weeks ago.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 09:15 AM
1 Corinthians 1:18

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 09:29 AM
And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail

To the Jews, and the Romans, and even to His own disciples (at first), Jesus did seem to fail.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 09:40 AM
we are still listening to the pope

just like it was planned by Jesus



do you need a scripture reference for that?

patrick jane
November 11th, 2015, 09:50 AM
we are still listening to the pope

just like it was planned by Jesus



do you need a scripture reference for that?

yes, show us.

Zeke
November 11th, 2015, 09:54 AM
Humanly speaking that is! kinda takes the steam out of the remark being unwarranted.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 10:01 AM
Humanly speaking that is! kinda takes the steam out of the remark being unwarranted.

Yes. The foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom.

The "failure" of the cross is a stumbling block, right?

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:16 AM
Yes. The foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom.

The "failure" of the cross is a stumbling block, right?

Speaking of failures. You worship an ever-dead idol "Christ" that can't save you because His work is never done, just as yours isn't. You're damned right where you sit, lest you believe the saving Gospel of the grace of God.

patrick jane
November 11th, 2015, 10:25 AM
Speaking of failures. You worship an ever-dead idol "Christ" that can't save you because His work is never done, just as yours isn't. You're damned right where you sit, lest you believe the saving Gospel of the grace of God.

20745

patrick jane
November 11th, 2015, 10:29 AM
Speaking of failures. You worship an ever-dead idol "Christ" that can't save you because His work is never done, just as yours isn't. You're damned right where you sit, lest you believe the saving Gospel of the grace of God.

20746

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:30 AM
20746

babe alerts?

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?



Eph 2:6 (KJV)

Wonder why they have a corpse hanging in their churches.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Eph 2:6 (KJV)

Wonder why they have a corpse hanging in their churches.

Easier to eat, I guess.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 10:46 AM
we are still listening to the pope

just like it was planned by Jesus



do you need a scripture reference for that?

Jesus asked peter to feed His sheep

three times

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:47 AM
Jesus asked peter to feed His sheep

three times

And the apostle of the circumcision surely did, at Pentecost, and in early Acts.

Too bad that does not include you?

There is an apostle of the uncircumcision with a message for you, if you were willing.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:52 AM
Popes are chumps.

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:53 AM
Popes are chumps.

The PopeMobile is pretty sweet, though.

:car:

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:58 AM
Speaking of pope-approved technology, any Catholics recognize this?

http://www.thebenevolentforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/the-popes-torture-tool.jpg

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:59 AM
Musty, I ordered 40 brown scapulars on Amazon a while back.
I still have a few if you need one...send me a PM.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Musty, I ordered 40 brown scapulars on Amazon a while back.
I still have a few if you need one...send me a PM.

Thanks but I made one out of a couple Scotch-brite pads and velcro. I'm good but they're starting to go soft. Next year I'm moving up to 9x11 sheets of 50 grit sandpaper. I really like the garnet abrasive but it's probably too flashy. Will probably go with plain old al-ox, I won't be as tempted to show it off.

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:07 AM
This has gotten really bad people.

OCTOBER23
November 11th, 2015, 11:09 AM
CHRYSTOSTOMP IS RIGHT WHEN HE SAID,

we are still listening to the pope

just like it was planned by Jesus

do you need a scripture reference for that?
----------------------------------------------------
HERE IT IS ...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets

denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast and the false prophet that

wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received

the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 11:12 AM
This has gotten really bad people.

put em on ignore

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:14 AM
put em on ignore

Silly doctrines like the brown scapular are subject to ridicule by the sane.

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:16 AM
put em on ignoreI don't want to do that.

What is going on in this thread is so overtly cruel - I guess it still surprises me.

I have been guilty of a more subtle cruelty toward the Roman Catholics here, and for that I repent.

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:18 AM
I have been guilty of a more subtle cruelty toward the Roman Catholics here, and for that I repent.

Hiding the gospel from billions and leading them to hell is the ultimate cruelty.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 11:21 AM
Hiding the gospel from billions and leading them to hell is the ultimate cruelty.

Cedarbay, do you disagree with STP on that?

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:21 AM
Hiding the gospel from billions and leading them to hell is the ultimate cruelty.Christ saved me while I was a practicing Roman Catholic. He will work through the RCC and bring to faith, those He wills to do so.

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:21 AM
Eph 2:6 (KJV)

Wonder why they have a corpse hanging in their churches.
Galatians 3:1

:thumb:


God Bless!

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:23 AM
Galatians 3:1

:thumb:


God Bless!

Through the scriptures, not a visual.

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Through the scriptures, not a visual.
Portrayed publicly!

God Bless!

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:26 AM
Portrayed publicly!

God Bless!
The Bible did NOT exist!!!!!

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:28 AM
Cedarbay, do you disagree with STP on that?Do you think what you are doing is helping anyone?

Laughing and mocking and making fun....which you hate BTW.... when others do it to you in the MAD threads.

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Portrayed publicly!

God Bless!

Gal 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 3
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


Think.

Not a statue.

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Why don't they preach the cross?

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:31 AM
Gal 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 3
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


Think.

Not a statue.
Post #34

:think:

God Bless!

OCTOBER23
November 11th, 2015, 11:32 AM
HAS CEDARBAY CAVED TO THE NON-CHRISTIANS ???

Wonder why they have a corpse hanging in their churches

IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP CRUCIFYING JESUS ON THEIR CROSSES.

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:32 AM
Post #34

:think:

God Bless!

Just asking you to think.

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:33 AM
Why are they using scripture that did not exist?

Galatians 3:1

Portrayed publicly!

God Bless!

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 11:34 AM
Why are they using scripture that did not exist?

Galatians 3:1

Portrayed publicly!

God Bless!

Think!

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:34 AM
HAS CEDARBAY CAVED TO THE NON-CHRISTIANS ???lol

Dona Bate
November 11th, 2015, 11:37 AM
Ditto!

God Bless!

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:47 AM
HAS CEDARBAY CAVED TO THE NON-CHRISTIANS ???

Wonder why they have a corpse hanging in their churches

IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP CRUCIFYING JESUS ON THEIR CROSSES.You know something, O23, it would be dishonest of me to say that I don't still have deep feelings for the RCC. I spent five decades (50 years) there. It is very normal.

However, don't worry, I'll not be returning to her, EVER!

I do wish you would grow up a bit and stop lashing out so much.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 11:54 AM
Do you think what you are doing is helping anyone?

Laughing and mocking and making fun....which you hate BTW.... when others do it to you in the MAD threads.

I see. You don't want to answer so you...

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/trollface/rapper-dancing-troll-smiley-emoticon.gif

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 11:55 AM
Speaking of failures. You worship an ever-dead idol "Christ" that can't save you because His work is never done, just as yours isn't. You're damned right where you sit, lest you believe the saving Gospel of the grace of God.

And which sect do you belong to?

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 11:56 AM
And which sect do you belong to?

I belong to Christ. I have no local church, I no longer have membership anywhere, save in His Body through His saving Gospel, which your church condemned at Trent.

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:57 AM
I see. You don't want to answer so you...

Yes, I do like to dance...very cute little guy!

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 11:59 AM
Yes, I do like to dance...very cute little guy!

Bye. You're dishonest so you're now on Ignore.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:00 PM
I belong to Christ. I have no local church, I no longer have membership anywhere, save in His Body through His saving Gospel, which your church condemned at Trent.

Being human, as I assume you are, it is possible for you to believe a falsehood, yes?

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 12:07 PM
Being human, as I assume you are, it is possible for you to believe a falsehood, yes?

Let's see. I took Paul at his literal word according to the Gospel of the grace of God. That's what I believed, and believe.

If I have believed a falsehood, then that Gospel is a lie.

If that's the case, you must throw the Bible in the trash, go atheist and never look back.

If Paul's Gospel is a lie, then Paul lied. Repeatedly. His letters are therefore untrustworthy and can rightly be trashed.

If Paul goes, then Luke goes with him for falsely or mistakenly attesting to Paul's apostleship. That means Luke can't be trusted and his gospel account and the book of Acts are trashed as well.

If Paul goes, then Peer goes as well. He also attested to Paul's apostleship in 2 Peter 3. That means Peter - your falsely purported first pope - can't be trusted either. He's out.

For your to be correct in what we both KNOW you believe (that Paul's Gospel is a lie), you have to gut the NT by about half and destroy the rest along with it.

Turn in your scapular, you don't need it anymore. Dawkins' fan club is still accepting new members.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:11 PM
Let's see. I took Paul at his literal word according to the Gospel of the grace of God.

This sounds nice and simple, except...

There are other people who also claim to take Scripture literally, and yet they come to different theological conclusions.


How is that possible?

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 12:12 PM
This sounds nice and simple, except...

There are other people who also claim to take Scripture literally, and yet they come to different theological conclusions.

How is that possible?

Simple.

Someone is wrong, lying, or both.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:14 PM
Simple.

Someone is wrong, lying, or both.


Do you think Jesus foresaw this difficulty?

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 12:16 PM
Bye. You're dishonest so you're now on Ignore.This is a bullying tactic:

"Answer my question, or else":

you are ignorant
I will put you on ignore
I will put you down and call you names, etc.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 12:19 PM
Do you think Jesus foresaw this difficulty?

Yes, as He told us through Paul in several places, for me most notably in 2 Timothy 3 which is talking about you.

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:22 PM
Being human, as I assume you are, it is possible for you to believe a falsehood, yes?

We have the same odds as you do!.... there is no safety in numbers when it comes to Christianity.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:22 PM
Yes, as He told us through Paul in several places, for me most notably in 2 Timothy 3 which is talking about you.

Ok. It actually doesn't mention me specifically, though. So your above statement would fall into the realm of personal interpretation, as opposed to a literal reading.


Anyway. We're also instructed to be of one faith, in the NT, right?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:24 PM
Ok. It actually doesn't mention me specifically, though. So your above statement would fall into the realm of personal interpretation, as opposed to a literal reading.


Anyway. We're also instructed to be of one faith, in the NT, right?

And for the most part we are... its the wolves among us that desire to divide us up for themselves... hence you end up with complicated doctrines and rituals. The faith I see in scripture and first century historical records of the early christians is VERY SIMPLE.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:24 PM
We have the same odds as you do!.... there is no safety in numbers when it comes to Christianity.

Do you really believe every Christian denomination has equal probability of being true?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:25 PM
Do you really believe every Christian denomination has equal probability of being true?

No.. I believe all institutions (denominations) are instruments of evil... including the RCC institution.

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 12:26 PM
Do you really believe every Christian denomination has equal probability of being true?

Are you going to keep living out the warning of 2 Tim 2:23? Knock yourself out.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:26 PM
No.. I believe all institutions (denominations) are instruments of evil... including the RCC institution.

Alright.

Christ did, however, found a Church, no?

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:28 PM
Are you going to keep manifesting 2 Tim 2:23? Knock yourself out.

Alright, if you don't want to discuss things, we don't have to.

I was under the false impression you joined a discussion for the purpose of, well... discussion. My mistake. :confused:

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:29 PM
Alright.

Christ did, however, found a Church, no?

No... Church is not a biblical concept... although you will find it in you bible as an errant translation.

Christ started a movement... an ekklesia... not an institution.

Until Rome got involved, the movement was known as 'The Way' and was not institutional.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:32 PM
No... Church is not a biblical concept... although you will find it in you bible as an errant translation.

Christ started a movement... an ekklesia... not an institution.

Until Rome got involved, the movement was known as 'The Way' and was not institutional.

Was there no structure or hierarchy to His ekklesia?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:34 PM
Was there no structure or hierarchy to His ekklesia?

Congregational/Assembly rule.

Each group was free to set up its own structure as led by the Holy Spirit.

Right Divider
November 11th, 2015, 12:37 PM
And which sect do you belong to?
the sect of the Nazarenes

Right Divider
November 11th, 2015, 12:38 PM
Being human, as I assume you are, it is possible for you to believe a falsehood, yes?
You always point the finger at others. You should look at yourself.

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 12:43 PM
You always point the finger at others. You should look at yourself.

I also think they seem to think that God is not able to protect his own.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:52 PM
You always point the finger at others. You should look at yourself.

I do? Always? What do you know about me and what I always do?

I fully admit, by the way, that I am just as prone to error as everyone else on the planet.

Right Divider
November 11th, 2015, 12:53 PM
I do? Always? What do you know about me and what I always do?

I fully admit, by the way, that I am just as prone to error as everyone else on the planet.
You frequently point the finger at others. You should look at yourself.

It that better?

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:55 PM
Congregational/Assembly rule.

Each group was free to set up its own structure as led by the Holy Spirit.

Before I keep blabbing - thanks for engaging in real conversation here. Seriously.


These congregations were bound to come to different doctrinal conclusions - so how were they to settle these differences, in order to truly remain one faith?

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 12:57 PM
You frequently point the finger at others. You should look at yourself.

It that better?

Like I said before - I know I am just as prone to error as every other human being.

I am often wrong, and I do my best to acknowledge my mistakes and right them. Is that ok with you?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 01:00 PM
Before I keep blabbing - thanks for engaging in real conversation here. Seriously.


These congregations were bound to come to different doctrinal conclusions - so how were they to settle these differences, in order to truly remain one faith?

By keeping to what they were taught and not going any further.... by resting in the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you haven't noticed... all doctrinal splits occur when so called teachers try and put their spin on things and go beyond what was taught.

In a way, the RCC set themselves up for the reformation.. it was inevitable.

But anyhow, the RCC isn't the church Jesus started, so this is all pointless.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 01:01 PM
By keeping to what they were taught and not going any further...

Taught by whom?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 01:06 PM
Taught by whom?

Jesus and the original apostles and what the Holy Spirit inspired to be written.

No person after them has any right to add or subtract from their teachings.

In other words, doctrinal development is strictly prohibited.

This follows along with scriptures exhortation that we be witnesses to Christ.... witnesses can only testify to what happened.. then cannot theorize or develop what they saw or were taught.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Jesus and the original apostles and what the Holy Spirit inspired to be written.

No person after them has any right to add or subtract from their teachings.

In other words, doctrinal development is strictly prohibited.

That's a dangerous phrase. It implies interpretation. Still, I follow what you're saying so far.

So once all the apostles were gone, individual congregations would continue to disagree on what the original apostles actually taught them. Or they might disagree on how a particular teaching was being applied. How could they settle those differences?

Additionally, it seems, by what you're saying, that what the apostles taught these early Christian assemblies could not be erroneous. Is that right?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 01:24 PM
That's a dangerous phrase. It implies interpretation. Still, I follow what you're saying so far.

So once all the apostles were gone, individual congregations would continue to disagree on what the original apostles actually taught them. Or they might disagree on how a particular teaching was being applied. How could they settle those differences?

Additionally, it seems, by what you're saying, that what the apostles taught these early Christian assemblies could not be erroneous. Is that right?

The Holy Spirit was supposed to solve any and all of these issues, through prayer and adherence to what was taught. Any people that would continue to divide the people would be shunned until they repent and once again abide in the Holy Spirit.

Yes, what the apostles taught and what the holy spirit inspired are not erroneous.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 01:33 PM
Yes, what the apostles taught and what the holy spirit inspired are not erroneous.

I think we're still in complete agreement.


Undoubtedly, the apostles were given the mission and the authority to teach the faith to others by Christ Himself.

Was there to be no one teaching others after the apostles? Or were they to have successors?

SeraphimsCherub
November 11th, 2015, 01:39 PM
The pope is the anti-Christ.

aikido7
November 11th, 2015, 01:43 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure..."

"humanly speaking."

Humanly.

All Jews knew that the Messiah was not supposed to be a martyr and die. According to religious tradition, a messiah was to be an anointed military king who would fight on the battlefield against the enemies of Israel.

But Jesus died. That was not supposed to happen. He died a death some theologians have called "the scandal of the cross." He was crucified, dead, and was buried. This is what is evident when we use the term "humanly speaking."

Any objective observer of history would see the same thing: Jesus on a cross, suffering, then dying.

It was the early Christians who soon recognized Jesus's Power and Presence was still with them even after Jesus died.

This is the meaning of the resurrection. And it is more than evident that the pope believes in this theological overlay.

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 01:44 PM
The pope is the anti-Christ.

Thanks for contributing!

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 02:21 PM
I think we're still in complete agreement.


Undoubtedly, the apostles were given the mission and the authority to teach the faith to others by Christ Himself.

Was there to be no one teaching others after the apostles? Or were they to have successors?

If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Give the sordid history of those that stick to the doctrine of Apostolic Succession.... and we are to judge things based on its fruit, I think its a no-brainer that Jesus nor the Apostles want anything to do with your apostolic successors.

disturbo
November 11th, 2015, 02:43 PM
If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Give the sordid history of those that stick to the doctrine of Apostolic Succession.... and we are to judge things based on its fruit, I think its a no-brainer that Jesus nor the Apostles want anything to do with your apostolic successors.

From the first century Didache...

15 Appoint Bishops for Yourselves

15:1 Appoint bishops for yourselves, as well as deacons, worthy of the Lord, of meek disposition, unattached to money, truthful and proven; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers.

15:2 Do not despise them, after all, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers.

15:3 And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the gospel. But to anyone who acts amiss against another, let no one speak to him, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the gospel of our Lord.

everready
November 11th, 2015, 02:51 PM
An explanation of those keys everyone talks about can be found here:

If there be any who imagine that there is some occult and mysterious virtue in an apostolic succession that comes through the Papacy, let them seriously consider the real character of the Pope's own orders, and of those of his bishops and clergy. From the Pope downwards, all can be shown to be now radically Babylonian. The College of Cardinals, with the Pope at its head, is just the counterpart of the Pagan College of Pontiffs, with its "Pontifex Maximus," or "Sovereign Pontiff," which had existed in Rome from the earliest times, and which is known to have been framed on the model of the grand original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon.

The Pope now pretends to supremacy in the Church as the successor of Peter, to whom it is alleged that our Lord exclusively committed the keys of the kingdom of heaven. But here is the important fact that, till the Pope was invested with the title, which for a thousand years had had attached to it the power of the keys of Janus and Cybele, * no such claim to pre-eminence, or anything approaching to it, was ever publicly made on his part, on the ground of his being the possessor of the keys bestowed on Peter.

We're talking about two different Peter's here, the one Jesus knows and the one Rome presents.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/sect61.htm


everready

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 03:06 PM
If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?

Right Divider
November 11th, 2015, 03:30 PM
Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?
False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

Cruciform
November 11th, 2015, 03:39 PM
POPE SAYS JESUS WAS A FAILURE
Sorry, but you're just...well, an idiot. Please properly educate yourself on a subject before presuming to comment on a public forum; you might avoid further embarrassment.

On this topic, see this (http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-pope-francis-really-say-jesus-was-a-failure).


End of thread.

kiwimacahau
November 11th, 2015, 03:43 PM
False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

Heiferdust!

glassjester
November 11th, 2015, 04:20 PM
False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

And what does this have to do with teaching authority?


Here's where I left off with His Servant:


Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 04:29 PM
From the first century Didache...

15 Appoint Bishops for Yourselves

15:1 Appoint bishops for yourselves, as well as deacons, worthy of the Lord, of meek disposition, unattached to money, truthful and proven; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers.

15:2 Do not despise them, after all, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers.

15:3 And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the gospel. But to anyone who acts amiss against another, let no one speak to him, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the gospel of our Lord.

Yup, congrgational rule.... they appointed their own leaders. The pope, cardinals and bishops did not appoint themselves or appoint each other... then congregation submitted to leaders that they chose... and they could alsombe removed by those that appointed them.

HisServant
November 11th, 2015, 04:30 PM
Bah

Ben Masada
November 11th, 2015, 05:11 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

Speaking as a Christian, I agree with the Pope. Jesus was indeed a failure. Nothing expected by Christianity happened with the coming of Jesus and all throughout his life. However, speaking as a Jew, since I do not believe the claims of the NT about Jesus, he was not a failure as he was not supposed to act according to the claims of Christianity.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 05:14 PM
I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

Ben Masada
November 11th, 2015, 05:18 PM
I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

Well Chrysostom, I do have my doubts about October too.

disturbo
November 11th, 2015, 05:20 PM
I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

Like usual the Protestants do everything they can to badmouth Catholics. Pope Francis said, "Humanly speaking", Christ was a failure. He was a failure in the eyes of the Jews. They didn't accept him. He was a failure in the eyes of people in general because he ended up getting crucified. He was viewed as a lunatic.

And of course the OP omits the rest of Akins article.

everready
November 11th, 2015, 05:38 PM
Like usual the Protestants do everything they can to badmouth Catholics. Pope Francis said, "Humanly speaking", Christ was a failure. He was a failure in the eyes of the Jews. They didn't accept him. He was a failure in the eyes of people in general because he ended up getting crucified. He was viewed as a lunatic.

And of course the OP omits the rest of Akins article.

How do Protestants badmouth Catholics?

everready

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 05:42 PM
How do Protestants badmouth Catholics?

everready

they call the pope a whore

everready
November 11th, 2015, 05:44 PM
they call the pope a whore

Can you show a post where the pope is called the whore?

everready

everready
November 11th, 2015, 05:48 PM
Speaking as a Christian, I agree with the Pope. Jesus was indeed a failure. Nothing expected by Christianity happened with the coming of Jesus and all throughout his life. However, speaking as a Jew, since I do not believe the claims of the NT about Jesus, he was not a failure as he was not supposed to act according to the claims of Christianity.

He completed his mission perfectly, he could only be a failure to those that don't know why he came.

everready

dialm
November 11th, 2015, 05:57 PM
If the Pope said that about Jesus then he would be in good company here. These armini's are out of control. They need some old fashioned Secret Electricity applied.

OCTOBER23
November 12th, 2015, 12:33 AM
I JUST REPORT THE NEWS

SO DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER

=============================

WHORE -

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

ok doser
November 12th, 2015, 07:51 AM
they call the pope a whore

well, who else?

iow, who do you think "the whore of babylon" refers to?

OCTOBER23
November 12th, 2015, 08:58 AM
DOZER, Who do you think that it refers to?

There is only one and that is the Catholic Church

because All other Religions are in her, even Mohammed's

sister in law was Catholic and that is part of his History.

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments:

for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth

with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Proverbs 23:27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 09:02 AM
constantinople is babylon the great

SaulToPaul
November 12th, 2015, 09:03 AM
constantinople is babylon the great

:chuckle:

Your harebrained schemes are genius!

OCTOBER23
November 12th, 2015, 09:06 AM
Istanbul NOT Constantinople
-------------------------------

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul NOT Constantinople

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 09:11 AM
constantinople

can be found no more

do you need scripture for that?

HisServant
November 12th, 2015, 09:53 AM
Babylon the great is..... Babylon.

If you believe other wise.... explain to us what the Holy Spirit was afraid of that caused him to lie...

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Babylon the great is..... Babylon.

If you believe other wise.... explain to us what the Holy Spirit was afraid of that caused him to lie...

why is it automatically a lie when someone disagrees with you?

HisServant
November 12th, 2015, 10:11 AM
why is it automatically a lie when someone disagrees with you?

Your question makes no sense... I'm not calling anyone here a liar.

All I am doing is questioning why you think it was OK for the Holy Spirit to lie by calling Constantinople Babylon?

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 10:14 AM
Your question makes no sense... I'm not calling anyone here a liar.

All I am doing is questioning why you think it was OK for the Holy Spirit to lie by calling Constantinople Babylon?

you are the one suggesting someone must be lying

I am suggesting there is a different interpretation

it is that simple

HisServant
November 12th, 2015, 10:24 AM
you are the one suggesting someone must be lying

I am suggesting there is a different interpretation

it is that simple

Babylon = Babylon.... there is no interpretation needed.

If you don't believe that, then you can change any word in the bible to another word with impunity.

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Babylon = Babylon.... there is no interpretation needed.

If you don't believe that, then you can change any word in the bible to another word with impunity.

do you think peter went to babylon?

aikido7
November 12th, 2015, 10:53 AM
...the cross was a failure.

This man in whose followers saw God was dead. This was not supposed to happen. According to tradition, a messiah was not supposed to die like a common criminal. A messiah was an anointed military king who would conquer the enemies of Israel.

No angels blowing trumpets and an opened sky appeared above Jerusalem, as many had hoped.

Jesus was tortured, suffered and died on a Roman cross.

He was dead.

THAT was the failure. The death of an astonishing prophet.

Jesus died, but Christ has risen. The meaning of the resurrection was that even in death, Jesus’s Power and Presence was still available to his followers after the crucifixion.

The failure is death and silence, but the opposite of death is resurrection.

Death does not have the final word.

ok doser
November 12th, 2015, 11:02 AM
constantinople

can be found no more




try google :)

HisServant
November 12th, 2015, 11:05 AM
do you think peter went to babylon?

Archaeological evidence proves that he did. There was a huge Jewish enclave in the ruins of Babylon that fled there due to the Roman occupation... since he was the Apostle to the circumcised, it also makes sense from a scriptural point of view also.

User Name
November 12th, 2015, 11:05 AM
constantinople

can be found no more


AEZOoMqA3hg

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 11:14 AM
do you think peter went to babylon?


Archaeological evidence proves that he did. There was a huge Jewish enclave in the ruins of Babylon that fled there due to the Roman occupation... since he was the Apostle to the circumcised, it also makes sense from a scriptural point of view also.

wacko

that is name calling with cause

aikido7
November 12th, 2015, 03:13 PM
try google :)Itís now called Istanbul.

User Name
November 12th, 2015, 04:38 PM
Itís now called Istanbul.

Why did Constantinople get the works?

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 05:20 PM
Why did Constantinople get the works?

to fulfill prophecy

can be found no more

need scripture for that?

disturbo
November 12th, 2015, 07:09 PM
Yup, congrgational rule.... they appointed their own leaders. The pope, cardinals and bishops did not appoint themselves or appoint each other... then congregation submitted to leaders that they chose... and they could also be removed by those that appointed them.

The Catholic Church has a history of really being the first Church anywhere that we know of. It all had to start somewhere. I don't believe any of us know for sure how it all progressed, but the The Church has a pretty good history of it most of which really can't be denied. Somebody had to succeed Peter. When Peter went to Rome they were meeting in houses well after he died and I'm not sure when Churches were first constructed. He's the one that went to Rome. The foundation is below the first floor and holds up the building. That's why I'm a believer that Peter was... not called the Pope, he was an apostle. Peter was one of the more aggressive apostles and had a big mouth. He likely gained a quick and large following. I'm sure he had several People under his wing and had to appoint somebody.

Who knows if the Church's history is all correct, but there's no doubt in my mind my church is the mother of yours. The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.


Does it hurt your feelings that you may be the offspring of it?

User Name
November 12th, 2015, 08:29 PM
to fulfill prophecy

can be found no more

need scripture for that?

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul, Istanbul
Istanbul, Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul.

TulipBee
November 13th, 2015, 06:40 AM
They think the Jesus on earth, the Pope, replaced a Jesus they can't see our hear

SaulToPaul
November 13th, 2015, 11:10 AM
They think the Jesus on earth, the Pope, replaced a Jesus they can't see our hear

Yes, anti-Christ, in place of Christ.
The vicar.

HisServant
November 13th, 2015, 11:17 AM
The Catholic Church has a history of really being the first Church anywhere that we know of. It all had to start somewhere. I don't believe any of us know for sure how it all progressed, but the The Church has a pretty good history of it most of which really can't be denied. Somebody had to succeed Peter. When Peter went to Rome they were meeting in houses well after he died and I'm not sure when Churches were first constructed. He's the one that went to Rome. The foundation is below the first floor and holds up the building. That's why I'm a believer that Peter was... not called the Pope, he was an apostle. Peter was one of the more aggressive apostles and had a big mouth. He likely gained a quick and large following. I'm sure he had several People under his wing and had to appoint somebody.

Who knows if the Church's history is all correct, but there's no doubt in my mind my church is the mother of yours. The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.


Does it hurt your feelings that you may be the offspring of it?

Peter never went to Rome and had no reason to... It would have been against his mission and calling.

republicanchick
November 13th, 2015, 11:27 AM
Speaking of failures. You worship an ever-dead idol "Christ" that can't save you because His work is never done, just as yours isn't. You're damned right where you sit, lest you believe the saving Gospel of the grace of God.

geez... another ThisShowsWhatTheAntiCatholicsKnow post

you have absolutely NO clue what it means to be Catholic

and since you don't listen to us loser Catholics... I am not going to attempt to dissuade you from your ignorance... If you don't even have the cajones to investigate the TRUTH about Catholicism.. go to an RCIA class.. talk to a priest...

then you deserve your ignorance (not to mention your separation from Christ)

Enjoy




:luigi:

Ben Masada
November 13th, 2015, 01:02 PM
to fulfill prophecy

can be found no more

need scripture for that?

Daniel 9:24. "... and to 'seal up' the vision and prophecy.'" This happened after the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. It means that no more prophecies were left to be fulfilled and no more prophets were expected to rise again.

aikido7
November 13th, 2015, 01:55 PM
Why did Constantinople get the works?Because it existed then as Constantinople.

It's very existence was made possible when the church became a part of the violent, Holy Roman Empire. It was named after the emperor Constantine who called the land's bishops together and forced them to come up with a manmade doctrine for the new faith.

aikido7
November 13th, 2015, 01:58 PM
They think the Jesus on earth, the Pope, replaced a Jesus they can't see our hearI believe the Christian church has replaced a domesticated, watered-down Jesus--the one who walked on the earth--that they no longer see and hear.

Now it appears to be "Jesus AS" Son of God, born of a virgin, Savior, etc. instead of the actual parables and teachings of Jesus. Making our faith a religion ABOUT Jesus instead of a religion OF Jesus is a profound betrayal of its roots.

chrysostom
November 13th, 2015, 02:04 PM
Because it existed then as Constantinople.

It's very existence was made possible when the church became a part of the violent, Holy Roman Empire. It was named after the emperor Constantine who called the land's bishops together and forced them to come up with a manmade doctrine for the new faith.

the bible says
it can be found no more

serpentdove
November 25th, 2015, 01:01 PM
...Sorry, but you're just...well, an idiot.

:yawn: Your pope :olinger: is projecting again (Matt. 24:4-5, 24). :noway:

[Whose Life Will Be Judged a Complete Failure? By Mike Gendron Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "We received several letters, emails and phone calls that defended the pope's controversial message at St. Patrick's Cathedral last month. Francis said, "We need to remember that we are followers of Jesus... and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross." Perhaps, if his defenders looked at the pope's controversial comment through the lens of historic Roman Catholicism, they would see how his comments truly reflect the ungodly teachings of Rome.

Roman Catholicism teaches that Jesus DID NOT finish the work of redemption, He DID NOT pay the full punishment for our sins, His blood DID NOT purify our sins, He DID NOT satisfy divine justice, He DID NOT redeem people from the curse of the Law, He DID NOT provide direct access to God, He DID NOT make perfect forever those who are being sanctified, and He DID NOT secure salvation for His people. Roman Catholicism denies all of these glorious truths, which is why Christ is still on their cross.

Rome teaches, "Every time this mystery is celebrated, the work of our redemption is carried on" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 1405). God's Word teaches the Lord Jesus Christ appeared once to do away with sin then entered the holy place once for all having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12, 26). When Jesus cried out "It is finished" the curtain of the temple was torn open giving believers access to God (Mat. 27:51). There was no longer any need for priests offering the same sacrifices repeatedly, which can never take away sins (Heb. 10:11). His one offering made perfect forever those who are sanctified; there are no more offerings for sin (10:14, 18).

When you look at what Jesus came to this earth to accomplish for sinners, we know that humanly speaking, and even more importantly, from a divinely eternal perspective, He was successful in everything. :Poly: The laying down of His life for His people was what He purposed to do. He told His disciples that before He could build His church, "He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised" (Mat. 16:21). In everything He came to do He was successful. Righteousness had to be perfected, divine justice had to be satisfied, blood had to be shed, redemption had to be paid, sins had to be forgiven, reconciliation had to be accomplished, death had to be conquered, salvation had to be secured and heaven had to be opened. His victory cry, "It is finished" speaks volumes!" Pro-Gospel.org

serpentdove
November 25th, 2015, 01:03 PM
[Civil War Brewing in Vatican Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries] "A group of cardinals, including some of the most powerful figures in the Catholic Church, have written to Pope Francis :olinger: telling him that his Synod on the Family, now meeting in Rome, has gone badly off the rails and could cause the church to collapse. Their leaked letter, written as the synod started, presumably explains why a few days ago the Pope suddenly warned against 'conspiracy' and reminded the cardinals that he, and only he, will decide the outcome of the synod. This is the gravest crisis he has faced, worse than anything that happened to Benedict XVI, and he knows it.

The cardinals warn the Pope, in diplomatic language, that (1) the synod is being hijacked by liberals obsessed with the narrow issue of giving Communion to divorced and remarried people; (2) 'pastoral flexibility' could lead to the Catholic Church falling apart in the same way as liberal Protestant denominations. The seniority of the signatories shows how close the church is to civil war. Read more (http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/crisis-for-pope-francis-as-top-level-cardinals-tell-him-your-synod-could-lead-to-the-collapse-of-the-church/)." Pro-Gospel.org

Ben Masada
November 25th, 2015, 01:17 PM
we are still listening to the pope

just like it was planned by Jesus

do you need a scripture reference for that?

I do! Why? Because, as the Jew that Jesus was, I find very hard to believe that he would be concerned about the Church of Paul which would rise about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 11:26)

everready
November 25th, 2015, 01:52 PM
How do you think the pope will react when he sees this?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

i wonder has anyone ever heard of a pope preaching on the second coming?


everready

SaulToPaul
November 25th, 2015, 01:54 PM
i wonder has anyone ever heard of a pope preaching on the second coming?




The second coming is rarely mentioned on EWTN, so I am guessing Catholics in general aren't too eager to see the end of the vicar's reign.

chrysostom
November 25th, 2015, 01:56 PM
How do you think the pope will react when he sees this?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

i wonder has anyone ever heard of a pope preaching on the second coming?


everready

what do you need to know about the second coming?

exminister
November 25th, 2015, 02:02 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

Go twist there, Friend.

Why do you expect the Pope said HUMANLY SPEAKING.

Spitfire
November 25th, 2015, 02:07 PM
Pope Francis meant that, by earthly, human standards, Jesus had failed. He died. He was executed. This is why the disciples scattered and ran away when he was arrested. This is why Peter denied ever having anything to do with Jesus and went back to being a fisherman.

But, needless to say, Jesus hadn't actually failed at all.

Spitfire
November 25th, 2015, 02:16 PM
Speaking of pope-approved technology, any Catholics recognize this?Those were used by secular authorities - Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise. The whole idea of due process hadn't really caught on yet (ironically enough, the inquisition was one of the only institutions that did follow some semblance of such - the inquisition was far more likely to release people wrongly accused of witchcraft and other spurious charges or prescribe some kind of non-violent penance before handing them over to the aforementioned local authorities) and often the only way to convict someone of a crime was to extract a confession.

Ben Masada
November 25th, 2015, 02:28 PM
How do you think the pope will react when he sees this?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

i wonder has anyone ever heard of a pope preaching on the second coming?

everready

As a matter of fact, I haven't. Probably he has found out in the recondite places of the Vaticano extra-Biblical literature to the effect that every thing about the "Christ" of Paul was a myth, the result of Pauline imaginations.
(II Tim. 2:8)

Ben Masada
November 25th, 2015, 02:32 PM
Pope Francis meant that, by earthly, human standards, Jesus had failed. He died. He was executed. This is why the disciples scattered and ran away when he was arrested. This is why Peter denied ever having anything to do with Jesus and went back to being a fisherman.

But, needless to say, Jesus hadn't actually failed at all.

All right Spitfire, if Jesus did not fail, what did he achieve in your opinion?

everready
November 25th, 2015, 05:47 PM
As a matter of fact, I haven't. Probably he has found out in the recondite places of the Vaticano extra-Biblical literature to the effect that every thing about the "Christ" of Paul was a myth, the result of Pauline imaginations.
(II Tim. 2:8)

And i doubt we ever will, he has a deathly fear of the living Christ.


everready

Cruciform
November 28th, 2015, 03:44 PM
[...Mike Gendron Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries]
Consider the source (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=620200). Caveat emptor.


Roman Catholicism teaches that Jesus DID NOT finish the work of redemption, He DID NOT pay the full punishment for our sins, His blood DID NOT purify our sins, He DID NOT satisfy divine justice, He DID NOT redeem people from the curse of the Law, He DID NOT provide direct access to God, He DID NOT make perfect forever those who are being sanctified, and He DID NOT secure salvation for His people. Roman Catholicism denies all of these glorious truths, which is why Christ is still on their cross.

Merely a collection of Straw Man Fallacies---all nine claims above are wrong. Again: Consider the source (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=620200).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

TulipBee
November 30th, 2015, 09:08 AM
Consider the source (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=620200). Caveat emptor.



Merely a collection of Straw Man Fallacies---all nine claims above are wrong. Again: Consider the source (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=620200).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
Why do you always use Catholic sources? Why not use bible quotes alone?

beloved57
November 30th, 2015, 01:11 PM
POPE SAYS JESUS WAS A FAILURE

So does everyone else who teach that People Jesus came to save from their sins Matt 1:21, wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief !

Right Divider
November 30th, 2015, 01:24 PM
Why do you always use Catholic sources? Why not use bible quotes alone?
BINGO!

Nanja
November 30th, 2015, 02:35 PM
So does everyone else who teach that People Jesus came to save from their sins Matt 1:21, wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief !

AMEN!

~~~~~

TulipBee
November 30th, 2015, 06:13 PM
BINGO!
That won't happen cause they're not authorized to use the bible alone.

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 02:53 PM
Why do you always use Catholic sources? Why not use bible quotes alone?
"Bible quotes" as interpreted according to whose preferred doctrinal tradition? Those of Christ's one historic Catholic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html), or those of one of the myriad recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today, with more being concocted every week? I'll go with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church every time.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 02:55 PM
BINGO!
Post #153

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 02:59 PM
That won't happen cause they're not authorized to use the bible alone.
Of course not, since the 16th-century Protestant "Bible alone" approach is itself entirely unbiblical (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html), and was simply unheard of prior to its invention by Martin Luther during the so-called "Reformation."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Ben Masada
December 1st, 2015, 03:39 PM
And i doubt we ever will, he has a deathly fear of the living Christ.

everready

What's the living "Christ" you have in mind, the Christ in the gospel of Paul? "Christ" was not part of the name of Yeshua ben Yoseph of Nazareth. It was a title attributed to Yeshua by Paul in order to build his church as he wherever preached his gospel, his converts would become known as Christians. (Acts 11:26)

TulipBee
December 1st, 2015, 06:11 PM
Of course not, since the 16th-century Protestant "Bible alone" approach is itself entirely unbiblical (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html), and was simply unheard of prior to its invention by Martin Luther during the so-called "Reformation."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
I'm fine with my bible

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 09:18 PM
I'm fine with my bible
The "Bible-only (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html)" doctrine, however, is not IN the Bible. Therefore, to be "fine with your Bible" would mean that you reject the "Bible-only" notion as decidedly UNbiblical.

Right Divider
December 1st, 2015, 09:22 PM
Post #153
By your ONE PREFERRED RCC!

Right Divider
December 1st, 2015, 09:23 PM
That won't happen cause they're not authorized to use the bible alone.
I think that if you use the Latin it's almost OK.

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 09:33 PM
By your ONE PREFERRED RCC!
Amen.

Right Divider
December 1st, 2015, 09:43 PM
Amen.
Indeed, just your preference.

Cruciform
December 1st, 2015, 10:15 PM
Indeed, just your preference.
Yet the fact is that my preference happens to be that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html) in 33 A.D., and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15)---something that your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect could never claim, let alone demonstrate.

If you disagree, then go ahead and post your proof.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

TulipBee
December 2nd, 2015, 07:40 AM
The "Bible-only (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html)" doctrine, however, is not IN the Bible. Therefore, to be "fine with your Bible" would mean that you reject the "Bible-only" notion as decidedly UNbiblical.

Can't be un in my hands. I read the bible. You're fighting to tell be I can't open my bible and must go through you. That ain't gonna happen. I caught you in too many lies.
And you babble on

Cruciform
December 2nd, 2015, 03:20 PM
Can't be un in my hands.
It's "un" in anyone's hands. Again, see this ('http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html").


I read the bible.
So do I, every day.


You're fighting to tell be I can't open my bible and must go through you.
Simply not true. It is the case, however, that you will interpret what you read either [1] according to the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html), or [2] according to the opinions of one of the myriad recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects of Protestantism. Which one it will be is entirely up to you. As for me, I'll go with the teachings handed down by that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D.


I caught you in too many lies.
For example...?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

TulipBee
December 3rd, 2015, 09:39 AM
It's "un" in anyone's hands. Again, see this ('http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html").


So do I, every day.


Simply not true. It is the case, however, that you will interpret what you read either [1] according to the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html), or [2] according to the opinions of one of the myriad recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects of Protestantism. Which one it will be is entirely up to you. As for me, I'll go with the teachings handed down by that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D.


For example...?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
I'm authorized to read my bible

Cruciform
December 3rd, 2015, 03:28 PM
I'm authorized to read my bible
So am I. Back to Post #165.

TulipBee
December 4th, 2015, 06:02 AM
So am I. Back to Post #165.
But without unbiblical traditions laid by the RCC.

This Charming Manc
December 4th, 2015, 06:34 AM
Back to OP .... I dont agree with the catholic church on a fair bit, but I like this pope he gets it.

His quote was sound, due to his use of humanly speaking , to insinuate he meant what the OP suggested is twisting truth and context, and porbably deliberately so.

Bluecheese
December 4th, 2015, 06:36 AM
Whatever Jesus was like in real life, I reckon once he died he stayed dead. He was used as an icon to head up the religion called Christianity well after his death. I suspect most of what was written by the gospel writers about him was either highly exaggerated or untrue.

Cruciform
December 4th, 2015, 06:35 PM
But without unbiblical traditions laid by the RCC.
Such as...?

Back to Post #165 above.

Right Divider
December 4th, 2015, 06:47 PM
Such as...?
The ascension of Mary

Cruciform
December 4th, 2015, 07:04 PM
The ascension of Mary
Discussed here (http://scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#the_bvm-VI). Nothing "unbiblical" about it.

Right Divider
December 4th, 2015, 07:10 PM
Discussed here (http://scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#the_bvm-VI). Nothing "unbiblical" about it.
That is literally the dumbest link that you've ever posted.

everready
December 4th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Read this carefully and tell me this isn't the image of the beast:

She appears as a living, breathing, three-dimensional lady enveloped in exquisite light. Visionaries and seers describe a beautiful, young woman glowing in radiant splendor. Seers, while describing her as brilliant to behold and arrayed with every splendor, admit that the "Queen of Heaven" transcends human description.

Marian followers also report seeing strange lights and glorious visions that often accompany an apparition. Visions of angels, glowing orbs, tongues of fire, mysterious solar phenomena, and peculiar luminous clouds have been sighted. Because of the tremendous pleasure and joy experienced by visionaries during an apparition, the term ecstasy[1] is the word most often used to describe this event. Those who have witnessed her, admit that they are paralyzed and enraptured by her beauty and charm.

Numerous healings and miracles have been reported at apparition sites around the globe. In addition, the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary has repeatedly announced that her most significant signs and wonders are yet future! She admits that she has not yet revealed her full glory to the world. She predicts heavenly signs and wonders that the whole world will soon witness. Consider the following messages received by three separate visionaries:

My sign is emerging. God wills it thus. Only my children recognize it, as it reveals itself in secrecy, and they praise the Eternal One for it. Today I cannot reveal my power to the whole world. I must withdraw with my children. In secrecy I will perform miracles on the souls until the number of sacrifices has become full. ?Then I can reveal myself to the whole world?[2]

Soon, I will come, my children! Soon, I will be in your midst with a great light. I will enlighten the entire world. Many souls will cry because they did not listen to my call. ?I will pass above everyone in a cloud and everyone will see me. What will become of those who insulted me and made a laughing stock of me? ?I will come soon, my sons, to travel through the entire world. I will give a great sign in the sky for those who will still want to be saved. All those who have recourse to me, who have a look of repentance, this will be sufficient to save them.[3]

I wish to also tell you that before my apparitions end completely, I shall be seen by every denomination and religion throughout this world. I will be seen among all people, not for just a moment, but everyone will have a chance to see me. As I appeared in Zeitoun, I shall appear again so everyone may see me. Pray and help my plans to be realized, not just here, but throughout the world.[4]

http://biblebelievers.com/tetlow/queenofall01.html


everready

Cruciform
December 4th, 2015, 09:10 PM
That is literally the dumbest link that you've ever posted.
Feel free, then, to actually disprove its content. (Sorry, but mere dislike or denial just doesn't count.)

Crucible
December 4th, 2015, 09:18 PM
:doh:
The Pope is the believed vicar of Christ, so why would ~the Pope~, in his office, state that Jesus was 'a failure'?

I'm Protestant, and yet have no delusion that the Pope would make this insinuation. I think this is just a classic case of paranoia or simply wanting the Pope to have declared such.

Cruciform
December 4th, 2015, 10:06 PM
:doh: The Pope is the believed vicar of Christ, so why would ~the Pope~, in his office, state that Jesus was 'a failure'?
Post #90

TulipBee
December 5th, 2015, 08:28 AM
Such as...?

Back to Post #165 above.
You'll have to Google that up outside the Catholic sources.

Cruciform
December 5th, 2015, 11:00 AM
You'll have to Google that up outside the Catholic sources.
So not a single example. That's what I thought.

Back to Post #165 above.

TulipBee
December 5th, 2015, 05:51 PM
So not a single example. That's what I thought.

Back to Post #165 above.
Protestants are universal Catholic church so get over it. They're not going anywhere.

OCTOBER23
December 5th, 2015, 06:50 PM
THE WOMAN IN Rev. 12:1 - IS NOT MARY - IT IS THE CONSTELLATION VIRGO

WITH THE CONSTELLATION LEO ABOVE HER FORMING THE 12 STARS

WHICH WILL HAPPEN ON SEPT 23, 2017 .

[we see Mary, the "woman," clothed with the sun. While in Rev. 6:9 we only see the souls of the martyrs in heaven, in Rev. 12:1 we see Mary, both body and soul.]

Cruciform
December 5th, 2015, 08:34 PM
Protestants are universal Catholic church...

:darwinsm:

Back to Post #180 above.

TulipBee
December 5th, 2015, 09:36 PM
:darwinsm:

Back to Post #180 above.

Don't know darwinism

Cruciform
December 5th, 2015, 09:50 PM
Don't know darwinism
Post #180

Elia
December 5th, 2015, 10:43 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

Bs"d

Well, he did fail to fulfil the messianic prophecies.....


"Serve Y-H-W-H!

And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.Ē
Joshua 24:14-15

TulipBee
December 6th, 2015, 05:48 AM
Post #180
If I don't care to know darwinism then I wouldn't bother with that link

Cruciform
December 7th, 2015, 04:10 PM
If I don't care to know darwinism then I wouldn't bother with that link
Your tacit admission that you have no actual argument to offer is noted. Moving on... :yawn:

TulipBee
December 7th, 2015, 05:15 PM
Your tacit admission that you have no actual argument to offer is noted. Moving on... :yawn:
Never used Darwinism in any of my truths

Cruciform
December 7th, 2015, 05:26 PM
Never used Darwinism in any of my truths
Post #188

TulipBee
December 7th, 2015, 11:55 PM
Post #188
What does 188 say?

SaulToPaul
December 8th, 2015, 11:51 AM
What does 188 say?

I suspect when Cruciform stands before the LORD and the Great White Throne, he will answer "See post#188" when required to give an account for his life, rather than falling on his face out of fear of the LORD.

TulipBee
December 8th, 2015, 01:45 PM
I suspect when Cruciform stands before the LORD and the Great White Throne, he will answer "See post#188" when required to give an account for his life, rather than falling on his face out of fear of the LORD.
Why would i want to see a post ive already read?

Cruciform
December 8th, 2015, 04:05 PM
What does 188 say?
Click here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4543790&postcount=188).

KingdomRose
December 8th, 2015, 04:59 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

Wow, the pope doesn't have any understanding of what happened at the 'cross' or really anything the Bible is telling us! He doesn't know!

Some leader of 3 billion Christians.

:kookoo:

TulipBee
December 8th, 2015, 05:57 PM
Click here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4543790&postcount=188).
Paste it here

Cruciform
December 8th, 2015, 10:08 PM
Paste it here
Nope. Post #194 above.

TulipBee
December 8th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Nope. Post #194 above.
More mazes to trick others. Reminds me of connect to dot drawing.

Cruciform
December 9th, 2015, 02:53 PM
More mazes to trick others. Reminds me of connect to dot drawing.
Your complete inability to offer any rational answer whatsoever to the content of my posts is noted. Thus your initial claims simply fall flat.

Moving on... :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

TulipBee
December 9th, 2015, 03:23 PM
Your complete inability to offer any rational answer whatsoever to the content of my posts is noted. Thus your initial claims simply fall flat.

Moving on... :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
Bad questions gets no answers

Cruciform
December 9th, 2015, 10:26 PM
Bad questions gets no answers
Thus merely proving my statements in Post #199 above. :yawn:

TulipBee
December 10th, 2015, 07:31 AM
Thus merely proving my statements in Post #199 above. :yawn:
I've already read the posts and dont neeed to reread them agian.

Cruciform
December 10th, 2015, 04:08 PM
I've already read the posts and dont neeed to reread them agian.
Post #201

TulipBee
December 10th, 2015, 05:52 PM
Post #201
Thats not a question nor answer. Just a post

Bright Raven
December 10th, 2015, 05:58 PM
Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrickís Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and Godís people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in Godís eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from Godís perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

I do not think you have understood the last two sentences of the Op.

Cruciform
December 10th, 2015, 06:26 PM
Thats not a question nor answer. Just a post
Still Post #201.

TulipBee
December 11th, 2015, 06:07 AM
Still Post #201.
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-27424-what-is-this-amateur-hour-gif-MIwC.gif

Cruciform
December 11th, 2015, 04:09 PM
Post #199

TulipBee
December 11th, 2015, 10:55 PM
Post #199
Ok thank you

Cruciform
December 11th, 2015, 11:51 PM
Ok thank you

:thumb:

TulipBee
December 12th, 2015, 06:14 AM
Looks like the catholics are not succeeding with the protesants if the debates are still going on since christ. A weak denomination that barly hangs on. No strong points
Catholics membership has been diving in a free fall.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/images/49665.png?h=609&w=419

Ktoyou
December 12th, 2015, 08:37 AM
Some fairly good responses here to an OP. which is inaccurate, and frankly, a bit insane.