PDA

View Full Version : There But For The Grace Of God



bybee
November 11th, 2015, 05:00 AM
go I.
When I see homeless people I pray for them and I pray for me.
I have five children. Two of them are addicts. I pray for them and I pray for me because the line between addiction and self control is so fine.
I have been very poor. For many years we lived on a budget that had pennies left on the day before pay day.
We had our share of catastrophes and setbacks. And always when all was bleak a helping hand would appear. Sometimes the help came from within, a much needed attitude adjustment changed the whole scene! Sometimes the help came unexpectedly and from totally unexpected persons.
I believe in paying it forward and second chances.
I'm not sure I can continue with "Truth Smacking". I do not like to hurt people. There is also a fine line between enabling and requiring people to stand on their own two feet. I'm still working on knowing where it is.
My Dad had been homeless as a youth. He became quite successful but never forgot being hungry and being homeless. He always gave money to panhandlers. He said "There by the grace of God and my own grit I no longer am!"
And I always give money to panhandlers. It won't make them and it won 't break me. It might ease their burden for the moment.
I forgive almost everything except deliberate cruelty.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 06:29 AM
I have always hated that saying

sooner or later
you are what you are because of what you did or didn't do
we were all given talents
maybe just one
but
we will be held accountable
if
we don't use it properly


it is all right there in your bible


30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 06:47 AM
I have always hated that saying

sooner or later
you are what you are because of what you did or didn't do
we were all given talents
maybe just one
but
we will be held accountable
if
we don't use it properly


it is all right there in your bible


30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And what if one's talent is to nurture?
Why did Jesus die on the cross if not to provide forgiveness to sinners?

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 06:49 AM
And what if one's talent is to nurture?
Why did Jesus die on the cross if not to provide forgiveness to sinners?

that we might be saved
and
we can be saved
if
we use our talent

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 07:07 AM
go I.
When I see homeless people I pray for them and I pray for me.
I have five children. Two of them are addicts. I pray for them and I pray for me because the line between addiction and self control is so fine.
I have been very poor. For many years we lived on a budget that had pennies left on the day before pay day.
We had our share of catastrophes and setbacks. And always when all was bleak a helping hand would appear. Sometimes the help came from within, a much needed attitude adjustment changed the whole scene! Sometimes the help came unexpectedly and from totally unexpected persons.
I believe in paying it forward and second chances.
I'm not sure I can continue with "Truth Smacking". I do not like to hurt people. There is also a fine line between enabling and requiring people to stand on their own two feet. I'm still working on knowing where it is.
My Dad had been homeless as a youth. He became quite successful but never forgot being hungry and being homeless. He always gave money to panhandlers. He said "There by the grace of God and my own grit I no longer am!"
And I always give money to panhandlers. It won't make them and it won 't break me. It might ease their burden for the moment.
I forgive almost everything except deliberate cruelty.

I take issue with nothing you've said. My family experience growing up was similar at times. I ask only this: who is more deliberately cruel...those preaching false gospels, or those who have the Truth but allow the false to be preached unopposed for the sake of getting along?

This isn't aimed at you, btw. It's a general but very timely question.

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 07:59 AM
I take issue with nothing you've said. My family experience growing up was similar at times. I ask only this: who is more deliberately cruel...those preaching false gospels, or those who have the Truth but allow the false to be preached unopposed for the sake of getting along?

This isn't aimed at you, btw. It's a general but very timely question.

I absolutely agree with you. The questions are valid. We must stand up and be counted for the truths of our Christian beliefs.
I guess it would be in the logistics we use to make our stands that I sometimes find so harsh that I wonder just how helpful we are?
I would like to be helpful to witness to that wondrous miracle on the cross. Jesus dying on the cross offered absolution and forgiveness to one of the other sufferers on a cross.
I do not turn the other cheek to that which is deliberately vile or evil.
But I remind myself that it is behavior that i judge and not the person.

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 08:01 AM
that we might be saved
and
we can be saved
if
we use our talent

Well, I am saved by grace which "passeth all understanding".

patrick jane
November 11th, 2015, 08:27 AM
go I.
When I see homeless people I pray for them and I pray for me.
I have five children. Two of them are addicts. I pray for them and I pray for me because the line between addiction and self control is so fine.
I have been very poor. For many years we lived on a budget that had pennies left on the day before pay day.
We had our share of catastrophes and setbacks. And always when all was bleak a helping hand would appear. Sometimes the help came from within, a much needed attitude adjustment changed the whole scene! Sometimes the help came unexpectedly and from totally unexpected persons.
I believe in paying it forward and second chances.
I'm not sure I can continue with "Truth Smacking". I do not like to hurt people. There is also a fine line between enabling and requiring people to stand on their own two feet. I'm still working on knowing where it is.
My Dad had been homeless as a youth. He became quite successful but never forgot being hungry and being homeless. He always gave money to panhandlers. He said "There by the grace of God and my own grit I no longer am!"
And I always give money to panhandlers. It won't make them and it won 't break me. It might ease their burden for the moment.
I forgive almost everything except deliberate cruelty.

You sound like a strong Christian lady wanting to do God's Will. I give to beggars also, I always know what they are going through. As far as the cruelty I understand, and the truthsmacking here is far from the truth. Nobody seems to have inerest in the truth or knowing and acknowledging the person as a person; too busy taking pot shots. Your Dad sounds like a great guy.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 08:55 AM
so why didn't some get enough grace?

PureX
November 11th, 2015, 08:56 AM
go I.
When I see homeless people I pray for them and I pray for me.
I have five children. Two of them are addicts. I pray for them and I pray for me because the line between addiction and self control is so fine.
I have been very poor. For many years we lived on a budget that had pennies left on the day before pay day.
We had our share of catastrophes and setbacks. And always when all was bleak a helping hand would appear. Sometimes the help came from within, a much needed attitude adjustment changed the whole scene! Sometimes the help came unexpectedly and from totally unexpected persons.
I believe in paying it forward and second chances.
I'm not sure I can continue with "Truth Smacking". I do not like to hurt people. There is also a fine line between enabling and requiring people to stand on their own two feet. I'm still working on knowing where it is.
My Dad had been homeless as a youth. He became quite successful but never forgot being hungry and being homeless. He always gave money to panhandlers. He said "There by the grace of God and my own grit I no longer am!"
And I always give money to panhandlers. It won't make them and it won 't break me. It might ease their burden for the moment.
I forgive almost everything except deliberate cruelty.Wow! Excellent post!

There is also a fine line between enabling and requiring people to stand on their own two feet. I'm still working on knowing where it is.When I was living in Chicago, the street people asked me for money all the time. Every day, often many times a day. And I had barely enough money to take care of myself. Yet I'd also been a drunk for many years, so I understood their plight better than most, I suppose, from my own first-hand experience.

I puzzled over what to do about them for along time. Should I give them money knowing they will get high with it? Do I buy them food that they don't want, instead? Do I ignore them? Do I preach to them?

In the end I realized that I was trying to control them when they couldn't even control themselves. And that was stupid. I was also trying to "divine their future" and determine how giving them a dollar would effect them. And this was also stupid.

So finally I realized I was struggling with nothing more than my own ego, in thinking that my actions would have some profound effect on them, when they would forget me the instant I walked away, whether I gave them a dollar or not.

So I quit worrying about it, and I gave them money sometimes, and sometimes not. Depending on my own situation, and my own whim. And I let the results be God's worry, not mine.

There were many days in my past when all I wanted was a drink. A drink to relieve me of myself. And even though each drink only made things in my life worse in the long run, they made things better in the moment. And I had to drink exactly as many drinks as I did, to get to the last one.

So I no longer begrudge the drunk his drink. Or the junkie his high. And I'll help them get both with a dollar here or there, if that's what they think they need. Or I won't, if it puts me in a tight spot. And then I trust them and myself, both, to God. And I pray they will get that last drink, or high, someday soon. And in the meantime, I'll help them to ease their suffering, even if it means they'll drink or take drugs with my dollar.

Giving means giving, not buying someone else's thoughts or behavior. I give when I can, without strings. And I don't feel guilty when I can't. Because I need to trust in the grace of God as much as they do.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Giving means giving, not buying someone else's thoughts or behavior. I give when I can, without strings. And I don't feel guilty when I can't. Because I need to trust in the grace as much as they do.

I do give most of the time when asked

never regretted it

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 10:30 AM
Wow! Excellent post!
When I was living in Chicago, the street people asked me for money all the time. Every day, often many times a day. And I had barely enough money to take care of myself. Yet I'd also been a drunk for many years, so I understood their plight better than most, I suppose, from my own first-hand experience.

I puzzled over what to do about them for along time. Should I give them money knowing they will get high with it? Do I buy them food that they don't want, instead? Do I ignore them? Do I preach to them?

In the end I realized that I was trying to control them when they couldn't even control themselves. And that was stupid. I was also trying to "divine their future" and determine how giving them a dollar would effect them. And this was also stupid.

So finally I realized I was struggling with nothing more than my own ego, in thinking that my actions would have some profound effect on them, when they would forget me the instant I walked away, whether I gave them a dollar or not.

So I quit worrying about it, and I gave them money sometimes, and sometimes not. Depending on my own situation, and my own whim. And I let the results be God's worry, not mine.

There were many days in my past when all I wanted was a drink. A drink to relieve me of myself. And even though each drink only made things in my life worse in the long run, they made things better in the moment. And I had to drink exactly as many drinks as I did, to get to the last one.

So I no longer begrudge the drunk his drink. Or the junkie his high. And I'll help them get both with a dollar here or there, if that's what they think they need. Or I won't, if it puts me in a tight spot. And then I trust them and myself, both, to God. And I pray they will get that last drink, or high, someday soon. And in the meantime, I'll help them to ease their suffering, even if it means they'll drink or take drugs with my dollar.

Giving means giving, not buying someone else's thoughts or behavior. I give when I can, without strings. And I don't feel guilty when I can't. Because I need to trust in the grace of God as much as they do.

Amen Brother!

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 10:32 AM
so why didn't some get enough grace?

Who says they didn't?

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 10:33 AM
Who says they didn't?

you

SaulToPaul
November 11th, 2015, 10:35 AM
we can be saved
if
we use our talent

:chuckle:

made up

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Who says they didn't?

Exactly!

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 10:39 AM
so why didn't some get enough grace?


Who says they didn't?

every time you say

there but for the grace of God go I

you are saying

someone didn't get enough grace

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:43 AM
every time you say

there but for the grace of God go I

you are saying

someone didn't get enough grace

Liar. You know she is not saying that and does not believe it.

They chose (or are choosing) not to avail themselves to the grace they have received, and serve as examples of what happens when one does not. Much like yourself.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Liar. You know she is not saying that and does not believe it.

They chose (or are choosing) not to avail themselves to the grace they have received.

is that name calling without cause
or
is that name calling by someone who is allowed to do it

musterion
November 11th, 2015, 10:46 AM
is that name calling without cause
or
is that name calling by someone who is allowed to do it

It's calling what is by its name.

PureX
November 11th, 2015, 11:04 AM
every time you say

there but for the grace of God go I

you are saying

someone didn't get enough graceNo, I think we get enough, but sometimes we squander it. I know I have.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 11:06 AM
No, I think we get enough, but sometimes we squander it. I know I have.

then you say

there is one who squandered the grace of God
or
lucky for me I didn't squander the grace of God

PureX
November 11th, 2015, 11:12 AM
then you say

there is one who squandered the grace of God That would be all of us, one way or another.

or
lucky for me I didn't squander the grace of GodThat would be dishonest and self-aggrandizing.

You really should have just left the saying alone. It was fine as it was.

Cedarbay
November 11th, 2015, 11:13 AM
I absolutely agree with you. The questions are valid. We must stand up and be counted for the truths of our Christian beliefs.
I guess it would be in the logistics we use to make our stands that I sometimes find so harsh that I wonder just how helpful we are?I would like to be helpful to witness to that wondrous miracle on the cross. Jesus dying on the cross offered absolution and forgiveness to one of the other sufferers on a cross.
I do not turn the other cheek to that which is deliberately vile or evil.
But I remind myself that it is behavior that i judge and not the person.You have brought up a strong conviction I have been getting from the Lord, to stop the unloving poking and prodding. It can be addicting on forums like this, or at least done without considering it's consequence.

chrysostom
November 11th, 2015, 11:17 AM
That would be all of us, one way or another.
That would be dishonest and self-aggrandizing.

You really should have just left the saying alone. It was fine as it was.

so reason and logic is always the problem

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 12:17 PM
every time you say

there but for the grace of God go I

you are saying

someone didn't get enough grace

Not at all! I dwell in God's grace freely given and I am called to the life He has planned for me. I do not know about the plan for others. When I have experienced hard times I never for a moment felt that I was outside of Grace.
I am grateful for my life.
I assume that others are also grateful for their lives.

Jamie Gigliotti
November 11th, 2015, 12:29 PM
Thank you for sharing your story Bybee!
All of our time is by Grace. Nothing exists apart from Grace. Grace is meant to move us to Him. Cleaned by grace, loved by grace, changed by grace.

The question is: Will we come to the truth and and a knowledge of the amazing grace He offers and embrace it and Him.

Every act of kindness we do is another opportunity for eyes to be opened to the truth of His grace and love.

Every act of unkindness, hatred and selfrighteous judgement the devil tries to use to continue the deception.

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 01:06 PM
Thank you for sharing your story Bybee!
All of our time is by Grace. Nothing exists apart from Grace. Grace is meant to move us to Him. Cleaned by grace, loved by grace, changed by grace.

The question is: Will we come to the truth and and a knowledge of the amazing grace He offers and embrace it and Him.

Every act of kindness we do is another opportunity for eyes to be opened to the truth of His grace and love.

Every act of unkindness, hatred and selfrighteous judgement the devil tries to use to continue the deception.

Amen Dearie!

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 01:09 PM
You have brought up a strong conviction I have been getting from the Lord, to stop the unloving poking and prodding. It can be addicting on forums like this, or at least done without considering it's consequence.

We give it our best and hope for the best!

bybee
November 11th, 2015, 01:11 PM
is that name calling without cause
or
is that name calling by someone who is allowed to do it

I believe he is stating a fact as he sees it.