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Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 06:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE: One who acts on anothers behalf as their agent.

SUBSTITUTE: One who takes the place of another.

Just as we were lost by a representative (Adam) so we are saved by a representative (Christ).

"Wherefore as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12.

Adam was humanities representative. He was our first father. We all have Adam's genes and blood coursing through our veins. As Adam goes, so go we. We are all sinners with out works. We cannot become sinners. We are MADE sinners. "For as by one man's disobedience, many were MADE sinners" Romans 5:19. "Behold I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. There is nothing that we can do about our sinful condition. Man's sinful nature can be subdued but it cannot be eradicated. This is why Paul said, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. This is the plight of man , he is born a sinner and he dies a sinner.

Some believe that man's fallen nature can be rehabilitated through the works of the law or through religion. This has proven to be false and actually promotes more sin, Romans 7:8. Others believe that man's fallen nature can be rehabilitated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. This has also proven to be false. Christians only have the "first fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. Just enough to make them a witness for Christ, but not enough to make them sinless. The Christian is a saint and a sinner at the same time. Romans chapter 7 is about Paul's struggle with sin.

If sinful man is to be saved salvation must come to him totally and completely outside of himself.

"For he has made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Jesus as our substitute, took our place on the cross and bore our sins in his body and not our sins only, but the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. When Jesus died on the cross all of the old sinful Adamic race died with him, Romans 6:6. God now sees Jesus as the victorious savior of the world, Colossians 2:15. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and made to sit in heavenly places in Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:6.

Jesus is God's new humanity. We become part of God's new humanity by being "In Christ" "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold all things have become new and all things are of God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:17, 18.

What does it mean to be "In Christ"? To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing. To be "In Christ" means that you have ceased from your own works and you are resting in his work for your salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

There is no room for Calvinism, Catholicism or any other religion in the Gospel. We are justified by faith alone because we are justified by Christ alone.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 07:12 AM
pate


The Representative and Substitutionary Work of Christ on Our Behalf

You dont believe it, because you teach that Millions upon Millions for whom Christ was a Rep and Sub for , shall yet be cast into hell fire in unbelief for their sins Jn 8:24, hence making God punish them Twice for their sins, which makes God Unjust !

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 07:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE: One who acts on anothers behalf as their agent.

SUBSTITUTE: One who takes the place of another.

Just as we were lost by a representative (Adam) so we are saved by a representative (Christ).

"Wherefore as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12.

Adam was humanities representative. He was our first father. We all have Adam's genes and blood coursing through our veins. As Adam goes, so go we. We are all sinners with out works. We cannot become sinners. We are MADE sinners. "For as by one man's disobedience, many were MADE sinners" Romans 5:19. "Behold I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. There is nothing that we can do about our sinful condition. Man's sinful nature can be subdued but it cannot be eradicated. This is why Paul said, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. This is the plight of man , he is born a sinner and he dies a sinner.

Some believe that man's fallen nature can be rehabilitated through the works of the law or through religion. This has proven to be false and actually promotes more sin, Romans 7:8. Others believe that man's fallen nature can be rehabilitated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. This has also proven to be false. Christians only have the "first fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. Just enough to make them a witness for Christ, but not enough to make them sinless. The Christian is a saint and a sinner at the same time. Romans chapter 7 is about Paul's struggle with sin.

If sinful man is to be saved salvation must come to him totally and completely outside of himself.

"For he has made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Jesus as our substitute, took our place on the cross and bore our sins in his body and not our sins only, but the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. When Jesus died on the cross all of the old sinful Adamic race died with him, Romans 6:6. God now sees Jesus as the victorious savior of the world, Colossians 2:15. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and made to sit in heavenly places in Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:6.

Jesus is God's new humanity. We become part of God's new humanity by being "In Christ" "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold all things have become new and all things are of God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:17, 18.

What does it mean to be "In Christ"? To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing. To be "In Christ" means that you have ceased from your own works and you are resting in his work for your salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

There is no room for Calvinism, Catholicism or any other religion in the Gospel. We are justified by faith alone because we are justified by Christ alone.

All of this equates to Salvation by works, by what a person does, it repudiates the Death of Christ !

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 07:25 AM
pate


Just as we were lost by a representative (Adam) so we are saved by a representative (Christ).

Pate doesnt believe this statement, because he teaches that millions upon millions whom Christ Represented end up lost in their sins in unbelief ! He doesnt believe or understand his own comment !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:12 AM
pate



Pate doesnt believe this statement, because he teaches that millions upon millions whom Christ Represented end up lost in their sins in unbelief ! He doesnt believe or understand his own comment !


You hate Christ and his Gospel.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:19 AM
You hate Christ and his Gospel.

You don't believe that comment!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:36 AM
You don't believe that comment!

You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe. You sound like you are about 15 years old.

To be a Calvinist or to believe the doctrines of Calvinism, you have to hate Christ and his Gospel.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:42 AM
You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe. You sound like you are about 15 years old.

To be a Calvinist or to believe the doctrines of Calvinism, you have to hate Christ and his Gospel.

You tell me I don't believe, so we even!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 09:10 AM
You tell me I don't believe, so we even!

You don't believe in Christ and his Gospel, that is for sure.

You have embraced the doctrines of a heretic.

jamie
November 3rd, 2015, 10:16 AM
This is the plight of man , he is born a sinner and he dies a sinner.


Yes, that's a good point and Paul agrees.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4 NKJV)

For he who has died has been freed from sin. (Romans 6:7 NKJV)

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 10:54 AM
You don't believe in Christ and his Gospel, that is for sure.

You have embraced the doctrines of a heretic.

Ok then I can call you an unbeliever ! Anyone like you who doesnt believe the Gospel is an unbeliever, and doesnt believe the scriptures !

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 10:56 AM
Yes, that's a good point and Paul agrees.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4 NKJV)

For he who has died has been freed from sin. (Romans 6:7 NKJV)

That applies to anyone Christ has died for, they died with Christ as being in Union with Him when He died for them, and they are freed from sin even while they are Unbelievers and enemies !

daqq
November 3rd, 2015, 11:21 AM
What does it mean to be "In Christ"? To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing. To be "In Christ" means that you have ceased from your own works and you are resting in his work for your salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31 is quoted extensively and verbatim in Hebrews 8:8-12. However, when one actually goes to Jeremiah and reads what the new covenant actually says, it does not teach what you teach in your OP. In fact the parable of sour grapes refers to the transgression of Adam, and Paul knows this so it is not him who is wrong but rather that you and your teachers have misunderstood and misapplied the words of Paul because you care not to study Torah and Prophets.

Jeremiah 31:27-31 KJV
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The same new covenant language shows up again in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 18:1-4 KJV
1. The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,
2. What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3. As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

In the new covenant you can no longer blame your sins and transgressions on Adam: every man shall die for his own sins according to the Scripture. When you say that Adam is the cause for your sinful nature you are essentially repeating the parable, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge", (and therefore you break the Scripture and do not understand the new covenant). But we have the Testimony of Yeshua, and it has been confirmed and sealed by the Father from above, and thanks be to Messiah and his Testimony, for we know that physical death profits nothing because the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. You therefore must die or you are not in Messiah so much as you imagine yourself to be. Cut off those "brute beasts", (and the seed of beast from Jeremiah 31:27) from among your own members: mortify your own members of your own household which are upon your own earth, (every man is a house with his lands) mortify the deeds of the body as Paul says. You are required to cut off sin from your own household as Yeshua commands or you cannot be his disciple. If you claim you are only a "disciple of Paul" then Paul disagrees with you because he is a disciple of Yeshua and clearly states that he teaches the commandments of the Master.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 3rd, 2015, 12:04 PM
The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31 is quoted extensively and verbatim in Hebrews 8:8-12. However, when one actually goes to Jeremiah and reads what the new covenant actually says, it does not teach what you teach in your OP. In fact the parable of sour grapes refers to the transgression of Adam, and Paul knows this so it is not him who is wrong but rather that you and your teachers have misunderstood and misapplied the words of Paul because you care not to study Torah and Prophets.

Jeremiah 31:27-31 KJV
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The same new covenant language shows up again in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 18:1-4 KJV
1. The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,
2. What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3. As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

In the new covenant you can no longer blame your sins and transgressions on Adam: every man shall die for his own sins according to the Scripture. When you say that Adam is the cause for your sinful nature you are essentially repeating the parable, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge", (and therefore you break the Scripture and do not understand the new covenant). But we have the Testimony of Yeshua, and it has been confirmed and sealed by the Father from above, and thanks be to Messiah and his Testimony, for we know that physical death profits nothing because the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. You therefore must die or you are not in Messiah so much as you imagine yourself to be. Cut off those "brute beasts", (and the seed of beast from Jeremiah 31:27) from among your own members: mortify your own members of your own household which are upon your own earth, (every man is a house with his lands) mortify the deeds of the body as Paul says. You are required to cut off sin from your own household as Yeshua commands or you cannot be his disciple. If you claim you are only a "disciple of Paul" then Paul disagrees with you because he is a disciple of Yeshua and clearly states that he teaches the commandments of the Master.

Another Other has spoken.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 3rd, 2015, 12:06 PM
You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe. You sound like you are about 15 years old.

To be a Calvinist or to believe the doctrines of Calvinism, you have to hate Christ and his Gospel.

According to B57, only he and Nanja are "real" Christians.

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 12:10 PM
The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31 is quoted extensively and verbatim in Hebrews 8:8-12. However, when one actually goes to Jeremiah and reads what the new covenant actually says, it does not teach what you teach in your OP. In fact the parable of sour grapes refers to the transgression of Adam, and Paul knows this so it is not him who is wrong but rather that you and your teachers have misunderstood and misapplied the words of Paul because you care not to study Torah and Prophets.

Jeremiah 31:27-31 KJV
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The same new covenant language shows up again in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 18:1-4 KJV
1. The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,
2. What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3. As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

In the new covenant you can no longer blame your sins and transgressions on Adam: every man shall die for his own sins according to the Scripture. When you say that Adam is the cause for your sinful nature you are essentially repeating the parable, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge", (and therefore you break the Scripture and do not understand the new covenant). But we have the Testimony of Yeshua, and it has been confirmed and sealed by the Father from above, and thanks be to Messiah and his Testimony, for we know that physical death profits nothing because the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. You therefore must die or you are not in Messiah so much as you imagine yourself to be. Cut off those "brute beasts", (and the seed of beast from Jeremiah 31:27) from among your own members: mortify your own members of your own household which are upon your own earth, (every man is a house with his lands) mortify the deeds of the body as Paul says. You are required to cut off sin from your own household as Yeshua commands or you cannot be his disciple. If you claim you are only a "disciple of Paul" then Paul disagrees with you because he is a disciple of Yeshua and clearly states that he teaches the commandments of the Master.

Jeremiah was written under the law, so was Ezekiel.

Those books and all of the Old Testament books are nothing but history now.

Trying to make doctrine out of the Old Testament is foolishness.

The New Covenant is Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6. That is your new Covenant.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:43 PM
Jeremiah was written under the law, so was Ezekiel.

Those books and all of the Old Testament books are nothing but history now.

Trying to make doctrine out of the Old Testament is foolishness.

The New Covenant is Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no man comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6. That is your new Covenant.

Both Jer and Ezekiel wrote of and believed in Christ ! Lk 24:44-45

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

The Prophets Jer and Ezk Preached the same Gospel Paul Preached which was according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

You dont know what you are talking about, you shouldnt even be trying to teach the Gospel ! Your condemnation is going to be Greater ! James 3:1

My brethren, be not many masters/or instructors, teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 02:25 PM
Both Jer and Ezekiel wrote of and believed in Christ ! Lk 24:44-45

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

The Prophets Jer and Ezk Preached the same Gospel Paul Preached which was according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

You dont know what you are talking about, you shouldnt even be trying to teach the Gospel ! Your condemnation is going to be Greater ! James 3:1

My brethren, be not many masters/or instructors, teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Jesus is the new and living way.

The Old Testament is just what it is..."OLD".

Paul said, "Old things have passed away; behold all things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The old has been crucified with Christ.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 03:22 PM
Jesus is the new and living way.

The Old Testament is just what it is..."OLD".

Paul said, "Old things have passed away; behold all things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The old has been crucified with Christ.

The OT Prophets set forth the same Gospel, they believed the same Gospel !

You dont even believe the Gospel !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 05:49 PM
The OT Prophets set forth the same Gospel, they believed the same Gospel !

You dont even believe the Gospel !

The Gospel became a reality on the day of Pentecost. Not before. Acts 2.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 06:37 PM
The Gospel became a reality on the day of Pentecost. Not before. Acts 2.

That's a lie, Paul Preached the Gospel according to the scriptures, 1Cor 15:3-4, that would be the OT scriptures !

Besides that, you don't believe the Gospel!

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 08:41 AM
That's a lie, Paul Preached the Gospel according to the scriptures, 1Cor 15:3-4, that would be the OT scriptures !

Besides that, you don't believe the Gospel!

The Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost, not before. Read Acts 2.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 08:43 AM
The Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost, not before. Read Acts 2.


Pauls Gospel was according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3 thats the OT scriptures in His Day ! You are in darkness !

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 04:11 PM
Pauls Gospel was according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3 thats the OT scriptures in His Day ! You are in darkness !

Paul wrote 1 Corinthians after the Gospel had been revealed to him, Galatians 1:11, 12.

You have little to no knowledge of the Bible.

jamie
November 4th, 2015, 04:14 PM
The Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost, not before. Read Acts 2.


Was this a different gospel than what had been preached to Israel?

patrick jane
November 4th, 2015, 04:23 PM
Pauls Gospel was according to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3 thats the OT scriptures in His Day ! You are in darkness !

His dispensations were kept secret AND spoken of in the scriptures.

patrick jane
November 4th, 2015, 04:32 PM
In the new covenant you can no longer blame your sins and transgressions on Adam: every man shall die for his own sins according to the Scripture.

We can blame sin and a fallen world on Adam and Eve. Jesus is the end of the law. Romans 10:4 KJV -

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:31 PM
Paul wrote 1 Corinthians after the Gospel had been revealed to him, Galatians 1:11, 12.

You have little to no knowledge of the Bible.

Paul's Gospel was according to the scriptures of the OT 1Cor 15 :3 !

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:32 PM
His dispensations were kept secret AND spoken of in the scriptures.

Paul's Gospel was according to the scriptures of the OT 1Cor 15:3!

daqq
November 4th, 2015, 10:02 PM
The Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost, not before. Read Acts 2.

The true Gospel came into the world when it was first preached:

Matthew 3:1-2
1. In those days came Yochanan the Immerser preaching in the desert of Yhudah:
2. And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!

Matthew 4:17
17. From that time Yeshua began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!

Mark 1:1
1. The beginning of the gospel of Messiah Yeshua, Son of God:

Mark 1:14-15
14. Now after that Yochanan was delivered up, Yeshua came into the Galilees, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of Elohim:
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of Elohim is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
10. According to the grace of Elohim which was given unto me, as a wise maste-builder I laid a foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let each man take heed how he buildeth thereon:
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Messiah Yeshua.

You appear to think that Paul has his own foundation separate from the Gospel accounts but he tells his readers that Messiah Yeshua is the foundation upon which his own doctrinal foundations are laid. The only way that this can truly be possible is if Paul laid a foundation based upon the Testimony of Yeshua. And if Paul lays his foundation by way of the foundation of the Testimony of Yeshua then you cannot be correct in your rationalizations and extrapolations from what you read. You have essentially carved out for yourself a separate dispensation which does not actually exist anywhere else except within your own mind. Even if the "gospel of Paul" did come about solely by the new revelations which he received; how can you possibly think that Paul would believe his own gospel superseded or displaced the Gospel that Messiah preaches and heralds in the Gospel accounts? There is no way Paul would have believed any such thing.

jamie
November 4th, 2015, 11:26 PM
The Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost, not before. Read Acts 2.



For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them, but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)

The fault with the Sinaitic covenant was not the covenant, it was the people.


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience... (Hebrews 4:6 NKJV)

There remains therefore a rest (Sabbath) for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NKJV)

The gospel preached to disobedient Israel referred to the kingdom of God, the seventh day rest pictured by the weekly Sabbath for the people of God.

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 09:06 AM
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them, but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)

The fault with the Sinaitic covenant was not the covenant, it was the people.


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience... (Hebrews 4:6 NKJV)

There remains therefore a rest (Sabbath) for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NKJV)

The gospel preached to disobedient Israel referred to the kingdom of God, the seventh day rest pictured by the weekly Sabbath for the people of God.

My Bible says that they did not enter in because of unbelief.

Same thing for today. They do not enter into his rest because they do not believe the Gospel. They have not ceased from their works (religion) Hebrews 4:10.

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 09:12 AM
The true Gospel came into the world when it was first preached:

Matthew 3:1-2
1. In those days came Yochanan the Immerser preaching in the desert of Yhudah:
2. And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!

Matthew 4:17
17. From that time Yeshua began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!

Mark 1:1
1. The beginning of the gospel of Messiah Yeshua, Son of God:

Mark 1:14-15
14. Now after that Yochanan was delivered up, Yeshua came into the Galilees, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of Elohim:
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of Elohim is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel!

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
10. According to the grace of Elohim which was given unto me, as a wise maste-builder I laid a foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let each man take heed how he buildeth thereon:
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Messiah Yeshua.

You appear to think that Paul has his own foundation separate from the Gospel accounts but he tells his readers that Messiah Yeshua is the foundation upon which his own doctrinal foundations are laid. The only way that this can truly be possible is if Paul laid a foundation based upon the Testimony of Yeshua. And if Paul lays his foundation by way of the foundation of the Testimony of Yeshua then you cannot be correct in your rationalizations and extrapolations from what you read. You have essentially carved out for yourself a separate dispensation which does not actually exist anywhere else except within your own mind. Even if the "gospel of Paul" did come about solely by the new revelations which he received; how can you possibly think that Paul would believe his own gospel superseded or displaced the Gospel that Messiah preaches and heralds in the Gospel accounts? There is no way Paul would have believed any such thing.

The Kingdom Gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Kingdom Gospel is the good news that the King has arrived.

The Gospel that Paul preached justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Two entirely different Gospels.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 10:47 AM
The Kingdom Gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Kingdom Gospel is the good news that the King has arrived.

The Gospel that Paul preached justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Two entirely different Gospels.

You dont believe those scriptures nor understand them !

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 01:46 PM
You dont believe those scriptures nor understand them !

I understand not only those scriptures, but the whole Bible.

You have a terrible time with the Bible.

You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

You just can't seem to bring it together can you?

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 01:53 PM
I understand not only those scriptures, but the whole Bible.

You have a terrible time with the Bible.

You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

You just can't seem to bring it together can you?

Not only you didn't understand the scriptures, you oppose them!

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 02:01 PM
Not only you didn't understand the scriptures, you oppose them!

Only in your heretical twisted mind.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 02:55 PM
Only in your heretical twisted mind.

You spend your days here opposing the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ! God has ordained that for you!

jamie
November 5th, 2015, 03:09 PM
The Kingdom Gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.


You claim you understand the Bible, so are you deliberately misrepresenting Paul's gospel?


And when they (Paul and Barnabas) had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:21-22 NKJV)

So when they (the Jews) had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. (Acts 28:23 NKJV)

Jesus also preached the gospel of the kingdom of God. (Mark 1:14-15)

You espouse a gospel about Christ, but not the gospel of Christ. Why?

daqq
November 5th, 2015, 03:18 PM
You claim you understand the Bible, so are you deliberately misrepresenting Paul's gospel?

And when they (Paul and Barnabas) had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:21-22 NKJV)

So when they (the Jews) had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. (Acts 28:23 NKJV)Jesus also preached the gospel of the kingdom of God. (Mark 1:14-15)

You espouse a gospel about Christ, but not the gospel of Christ. Why?

:thumb: :)

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 04:50 PM
You claim you understand the Bible, so are you deliberately misrepresenting Paul's gospel?


And when they (Paul and Barnabas) had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:21-22 NKJV)

So when they (the Jews) had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. (Acts 28:23 NKJV)

Jesus also preached the gospel of the kingdom of God. (Mark 1:14-15)

You espouse a gospel about Christ, but not the gospel of Christ. Why?


The Kingdom Gospel is the good news that the King has arrived. Wherever the King is at there is the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God has to do with anything that is related to Christ and his ministry while he was on the earth.

The Gospel that was preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost and was later revealed to Paul, Galatians 1:11,12. is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. It is faith in this Gospel that saves and brings eternal life.

jamie
November 5th, 2015, 06:16 PM
The Gospel that was preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost and was later revealed to Paul, Galatians 1:11,12. is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. It is faith in this Gospel that saves and brings eternal life.


Do you believe this is a different gospel than what Jesus preached?

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 06:47 PM
The Kingdom Gospel is the good news that the King has arrived. Wherever the King is at there is the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God has to do with anything that is related to Christ and his ministry while he was on the earth.

The Gospel that was preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost and was later revealed to Paul, Galatians 1:11,12. is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. It is faith in this Gospel that saves and brings eternal life.

Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures 1Cor 15:3 he used the scriptures of the OT!

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 04:55 PM
Do you believe this is a different gospel than what Jesus preached?

Jesus did not preach a Gospel. He left that up to the apostles.

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 04:58 PM
Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures 1Cor 15:3 he used the scriptures of the OT!

As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Paul received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

jamie
November 6th, 2015, 05:20 PM
Jesus did not preach a Gospel. He left that up to the apostles.



And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people. (Matthew 4:23 NKJV)

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15 NKJV)

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 05:26 PM
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people. (Matthew 4:23 NKJV)

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15 NKJV)

The "Kingdom Gospel" is the good news that the King has arrived.

It is not the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

beloved57
November 6th, 2015, 07:12 PM
As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Paul received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures of the OT 1Cor 15:3

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 07:14 PM
Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures of the OT 1Cor 15:3

Add 1 Cor 15:4 and you have the Gospel. So simple

Robert Pate
November 7th, 2015, 04:18 PM
Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures of the OT 1Cor 15:3

No, Paul preached the Gospel that he received from Jesus, Galatians 1:11, 12.

beloved57
November 7th, 2015, 04:31 PM
No, Paul preached the Gospel that he received from Jesus, Galatians 1:11, 12.

Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures of the OT 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Those are the OT Scriptures !

Robert Pate
November 7th, 2015, 04:44 PM
Paul preached the Gospel according to the scriptures of the OT 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Those are the OT Scriptures !


Religion has made you nuts. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is New Testament scripture. Are you on the weed again?

beloved57
November 7th, 2015, 06:22 PM
Religion has made you nuts. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is New Testament scripture. Are you on the weed again?

Paul's Gospel that He received and delivered was according to the scriptures 1Cor 15:1-4 that is the Old testament scriptures,the law and prophets!

jamie
November 7th, 2015, 07:38 PM
The "Kingdom Gospel" is the good news that the King has arrived.

It is not the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.


Did Jesus teach that unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God?

Robert Pate
November 8th, 2015, 09:34 AM
Did Jesus teach that unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God?


We are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

beloved57
November 8th, 2015, 02:52 PM
We are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Invalid comment not supported by scripture !

Bright Raven
November 8th, 2015, 03:06 PM
Invalid comment not supported by scripture !

You don't know the gospel.

Nanja
November 8th, 2015, 03:57 PM
You don't know the gospel.

The Gospel is hid from you 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!


There's only one Gospel: TULIP:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance or Preservation of the Saints

~~~~~

Bright Raven
November 8th, 2015, 04:32 PM
The Gospel is hid from you 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!


There's only one Gospel: TULIP:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance or Preservation of the Saints

~~~~~
Tulip is an acronym. You are correct. There is only one Gospel.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Nanja
November 8th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Tulip is an acronym. You are correct. There is only one Gospel.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


All those Christ died for were Chosen in Union with Him Eph. 1:4-5; 2 Tim. 1:9
before the ever received or believed anything about Him!

~~~~~

beloved57
November 8th, 2015, 04:57 PM
The Gospel is hid from you 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!


There's only one Gospel: TULIP:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance or Preservation of the Saints

~~~~~

Amen Sister!

Robert Pate
November 8th, 2015, 08:29 PM
Amen Sister!


She is the only one of the hundreds on this Forum that agrees with you.

patrick jane
November 8th, 2015, 08:32 PM
She is the only one of the hundreds on this Forum that agrees with you.

Don't forget AMR ! :rapture:

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 01:48 AM
She is the only one of the hundreds on this Forum that agrees with you.

Many on this forum agree with you and your false teaching of Salvation by works, by what a person does, denying the Saving Death of Christ!You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in Hell for their sins that He put away!

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Many on this forum agree with you and your false teaching of Salvation by works, by what a person does, denying the Saving Death of Christ!You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in Hell for their sins that He put away!


You cannot reconcile what you believe with John 3:16-18.

You remain in opposition to those scriptures.

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 08:31 AM
You cannot reconcile what you believe with John 3:16-18.

You remain in opposition to those scriptures.

You dont believe or understand those scriptures, you quote them to your damnation !

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 09:07 AM
You dont believe or understand those scriptures, you quote them to your damnation !

The word of God opposes you.

You cannot reconcile what you believe with John 3:16-18.

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 01:19 PM
The word of God opposes you.

You cannot reconcile what you believe with John 3:16-18.

You in a sad situation when scripture quoting can only add to your damnation !

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 05:50 PM
You in a sad situation when scripture quoting can only add to your damnation !


You apparently think that something is wrong with the Bible.

You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

You are always in a turmoil with the Bible.

Bright Raven
November 9th, 2015, 06:03 PM
You in a sad situation when scripture quoting can only add to your damnation !

Nope! Not when the scripture quoted speaks of salvation.

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 06:30 PM
You apparently think that something is wrong with the Bible.

You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

You are always in a turmoil with the Bible.

People like you who are always quoting scripture, trying to be a teacher of the word of God, but yet really dont believe or understand it, it adds to your damnation in the Day of Judgment. James who you slander, wrote this warning James 3:1

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

That word masters is the greek word didaskalos and means:

a teacher, master. a teacher, an instructor acknowledged for their mastery in their field of learning; in Scripture, a Bible teacher, competent in theology.

And thats what you think you are, however you are heaping greater condemnation upon yourself, be my guest !

Nanja
November 9th, 2015, 08:30 PM
People like you who are always quoting scripture, trying to be a teacher of the word of God, but yet really dont believe or understand it, it adds to your damnation in the Day of Judgment. James who you slander, wrote this warning James 3:1

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

That word masters is the greek word didaskalos and means:

a teacher, master. a teacher, an instructor acknowledged for their mastery in their field of learning; in Scripture, a Bible teacher, competent in theology.

And thats what you think you are, however you are heaping greater condemnation upon yourself, be my guest !




You're spot on, my Brother, exactly right!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 08:41 AM
What if John Calvin had not broken away from the Catholic church?

What if you had never heard of a John Calvin.

The Bible is a closed book. The last book was written by the apostle John which was the book of Revelation.

Now 1500 years latter you want to introduce a new doctrine to the Bible called Calvinism. There is nothing in the Bible about Calvinism.

The Bible teaches that we are justifed by faith. Not by being zapped with the Holy Spirit.

There is a whole chapter in the book of Acts, Acts 2, that tells how people are saved. They are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel, Acts 2:41.

You need to come out of your coma and wake up and smell the roses and then throw your tulips in the trash.

beloved57
November 11th, 2015, 12:40 PM
What if John Calvin had not broken away from the Catholic church?

What if you had never heard of a John Calvin.

The Bible is a closed book. The last book was written by the apostle John which was the book of Revelation.

Now 1500 years latter you want to introduce a new doctrine to the Bible called Calvinism. There is nothing in the Bible about Calvinism.

The Bible teaches that we are justifed by faith. Not by being zapped with the Holy Spirit.

There is a whole chapter in the book of Acts, Acts 2, that tells how people are saved. They are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel, Acts 2:41.

You need to come out of your coma and wake up and smell the roses and then throw your tulips in the trash.

Opposing the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ!

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 03:52 PM
Opposing the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ!


No, opposing your unbiblical, heretical, demonic, man conceived doctrine.

beloved57
November 11th, 2015, 03:53 PM
No, opposing your unbiblical, heretical, demonic, man conceived doctrine.

See how you speak of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ! :-)

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 04:01 PM
See how you speak of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ! :-)

You are so far from understanding what the "Gospel of God's Grace in Christ" is that you might as well be an atheist.

It might be better for you to be an atheist in the judgment. Atleast atheist don't blaspheme God's word. They just don't believe.

disturbo
November 11th, 2015, 04:04 PM
No, opposing your unbiblical, heretical, demonic, man conceived doctrine.

He won't get the message. It's easier to take a sliver out of the back side of a wild cat than it is to change his mind.

Robert said to B57,


Religion has made you nuts. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is New Testament scripture. Are you on the weed again?

You mean 'still'!

beloved57
November 11th, 2015, 04:19 PM
You are so far from understanding what the "Gospel of God's Grace in Christ" is that you might as well be an atheist.

It might be better for you to be an atheist in the judgment. Atleast atheist don't blaspheme God's word. They just don't believe.

I understand it and Preach it here every day!

Robert Pate
November 12th, 2015, 04:52 PM
I understand it and Preach it here every day!


Okay, then do an exposition on John 3:16.

beloved57
November 12th, 2015, 05:53 PM
Okay, then do an exposition on John 3:16.

I already have many times before, read my threads,that is what they are for !

Nanja
November 12th, 2015, 06:54 PM
I already have many times before, read my threads,that is what they are for !


The World of Jn 3:16-17 !

Part 1 thru 3:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4327237#892

~~~~~

beloved57
November 12th, 2015, 07:23 PM
The World of Jn 3:16-17 !

Part 1 thru 3:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4327237#892

~~~~~

Thanks Sis, that lets me know that if one wants to know my understanding of John 3:16 ,if they put forth the effort they can find what I have explained about it already!

Nanja
November 13th, 2015, 06:20 AM
Thanks Sis, that lets me know that if one wants to know my understanding of John 3:16 ,if they put forth the effort they can find what I have explained about it already!


YW Bro, that's true, it's pretty easy. And Pate has already been shown the true meaning of those verses
many times, even in the two years I've been on this forum, but remains in rebellion against them.
He's an enemy of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ. Woe unto him!

~~~~~

beloved57
November 13th, 2015, 06:41 AM
YW Bro, that's true, it's pretty easy. And Pate has already been shown the true meaning of those verses
many times, even in the two years I've been on this forum, but remains in rebellion against them.
He's an enemy of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ. Woe unto him!

~~~~~

Amen!

Wednesday Addams
November 13th, 2015, 07:48 AM
All the atonement shows is that God set up a mode where he killed an innocent human being in the most brutal of ways, so he could feel like he doesn't have to take it out on everybody else. God set up a human to save us from His own wrath, unnecessarily. But since it was God's intention to do so, he could have done so without the need for this death.
This wasn't about saving us, this was about God..He apparently wasn't going to let this issue slide until he had killed someone, so ultimately there is no mercy as blood was drawn.

jamie
November 13th, 2015, 08:40 AM
This wasn't about saving us, this was about God..He apparently wasn't going to let this issue slide until he had killed someone, so ultimately there is no mercy as blood was drawn.


The Hebrew scriptures say that the soul that sins shall die.

Jesus said, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends." (John 15:13 NKJV)

Jesus laid down his life for us so that we could lay down our life for him.