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Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 09:15 AM
The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Paul said that the Gospel... "Is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all that one needs to be saved. Faith in Christ and his Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. Religion, whether it be the Calvinist religion or the Catholic religion or whatever religion is not the way. Religion is the broadway that leads to destruction and "Many there be that go that way" Matthew 7:13.

There was no religion in the early church. What there was, was people that wanted to live according to rules and laws. Paul was continually preaching against living this way. Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. and not by rules and laws. To live by faith is to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

It is not the Gospel plus Calvinism or The Gospel plus Catholicism. It is the Gospel plus nothing. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost, that come unto God by Jesus Christ" Hebrews 7:25.

Is your religion able to save you to the uttermost? Religion is a diversion away from Christ and his Gospel. There is no Spirit in religion. Religion is anti-Christ and anti-Gospel. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who are trusting in Christ and his Gospel for their salvation. "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Religion) or by the hearing of faith" Galatians 3:2. Which is the Gospel.

musterion
October 31st, 2015, 09:20 AM
B57 embraces his assumed elective reconciliation and regeneration. His faith in the Gospel--assuming he even has any, I can't tell--is just the result, not the means.

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 10:00 AM
B57 embraces his assumed elective reconciliation and regeneration. His faith in the Gospel--assuming he even has any, I can't tell--is just the result, not the means.


That is known as faith in your faith. He believes with all of his heart that Calvinism is the way, the truth and the life.

Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel.

musterion
October 31st, 2015, 10:14 AM
That is known as faith in your faith.

Exactly. The fruit of which is Lordship Salvation, which is salvation by the work of persevering, which is a false gospel.

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 10:45 AM
Exactly. The fruit of which is Lordship Salvation, which is salvation by the work of persevering, which is a false gospel.

Right.

Many believe that they are saved because they believe that Jesus is the Christ. The devils also believe and tremble, James 2:19.

musterion
October 31st, 2015, 01:20 PM
Most people I've met my entire life have believed that, and are counting on both that and their good outweighing their bad, plus a generic belief in God, to save them. Very few would be able to explain the Gospel of the grace of God in its pure simplicity.

brewmama
October 31st, 2015, 01:39 PM
There was no religion in the early church. What there was, was people that wanted to live according to rules and laws. Paul was continually preaching against living this way. Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. and not by rules and laws. To live by faith is to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.



That is absolutely not true. Why do you think the apostles went around founding churches ? Many that Paul founded are still there today. Why did Jesus say that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church? What do you have against the churches that the apostles founded?

musterion
October 31st, 2015, 01:56 PM
That is absolutely not true. Why do you think the apostles went around founding churches ? Many that Paul founded are still there today. Why did Jesus say that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church? What do you have against the churches that the apostles founded?

What do you have against identifying yourself as Roman Catholic?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 31st, 2015, 02:20 PM
That is known as faith in your faith. He believes with all of his heart that Calvinism is the way, the truth and the life.

Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Amen

Grosnick Marowbe
October 31st, 2015, 02:22 PM
Most people I've met my entire life have believed that, and are counting on both that and their good outweighing their bad, plus a generic belief in God, to save them. Very few would be able to explain the Gospel of the grace of God in its pure simplicity.

True

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 02:27 PM
That is absolutely not true. Why do you think the apostles went around founding churches ? Many that Paul founded are still there today. Why did Jesus say that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church? What do you have against the churches that the apostles founded?

The churches that Paul founded were Gospel believing churches. Not like the organized religion churches of today.

There is no Gospel or very little Gospel in todays organized church.

Christ's church is an invisible church. It does not have a building or a paid staff. It is composed of blood bought believers.

musterion
October 31st, 2015, 04:35 PM
The so-called early church 'fathers,' to a man, embraced Judaized sacramentalism in denial of Paul's gospel of grace.

beloved57
October 31st, 2015, 06:42 PM
That is known as faith in your faith. He believes with all of his heart that Calvinism is the way, the truth and the life.

Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel.

You dont believe the Gospel, Calvinism is the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ ! And you reject it !

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 08:19 PM
You dont believe the Gospel, Calvinism is the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ ! And you reject it !

Thank God!

beloved57
October 31st, 2015, 08:20 PM
Thank God!

Thank God you reject the Gospel?

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 08:25 PM
Thank God you reject the Gospel?

Thank God that I reject your Gospel.

beloved57
November 1st, 2015, 11:05 AM
Thank God that I reject your Gospel.

You reject the Gospel of God!

Robert Pate
November 1st, 2015, 11:45 AM
You reject the Gospel of God!

No, the Gospel of God has to do with justifying the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciling the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Your Gospel doesn't do that.

beloved57
November 1st, 2015, 11:56 AM
No, the Gospel of God has to do with justifying the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciling the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Your Gospel doesn't do that.

You don't believe or understand those scriptures, you teach that Christ life and death failed to save millions upon millions He lived and died for!

Robert Pate
November 1st, 2015, 04:34 PM
You don't believe or understand those scriptures, you teach that Christ life and death failed to save millions upon millions He lived and died for!


God forces no one to believe on his Son Jesus Christ.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you. Otherwise you are doomed.

beloved57
November 1st, 2015, 05:20 PM
God forces no one to believe on his Son Jesus Christ.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you. Otherwise you are doomed.

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 09:22 AM
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!

If you are found to be an enemy of God in the judgment, "Poof" you are gone in a puff of smoke.

jamie
November 3rd, 2015, 09:50 AM
If you are found to be an enemy of God in the judgment, "Poof" you are gone in a puff of smoke.


When is this judgment and can anyone attend?

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 10:06 AM
If you are found to be an enemy of God in the judgment, "Poof" you are gone in a puff of smoke.

You cant embrace the Grace of God in the Gospel, Lol !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 12:13 PM
You cant embrace the Grace of God in the Gospel, Lol !

What do you think that John 3:16 is saying?

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 12:14 PM
When is this judgment and can anyone attend?

When Christ returns.

You won't need an invitation.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:16 PM
What do you think that John 3:16 is saying?

Your carnal mind is enmity against the Gospel of Gods Grace!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 12:25 PM
Your carnal mind is enmity against the Gospel of Gods Grace!

There is no grace in Calvinism.

Your Calvinist God is a mean, cruel tyrant.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:32 PM
There is no grace in Calvinism.

Your Calvinist God is a mean, cruel tyrant.

As long as you remain in a carnal lost condition, you will never embrace the Gospel of Gods Grace ! I personally believe you are a tare and will never be saved !

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:50 PM
What do you think that John 3:16 is saying?

Read my threads, I have explained John 3:16 about Twenty Times or more!

jamie
November 3rd, 2015, 01:12 PM
When Christ returns.


Of course we can't be judged until after we die and then death frees us from sin.


And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment... (Hebrews 9:27 NKJV)

For he who has died has been freed from sin. (Romans 6:7 NKJV)

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 02:09 PM
Of course we can't be judged until after we die and then death frees us from sin.


And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment... (Hebrews 9:27 NKJV)

For he who has died has been freed from sin. (Romans 6:7 NKJV)

Those that are alive when Christ returns will be judged, Revelation 6:15-17.

Ben Masada
November 3rd, 2015, 03:38 PM
That's absolutely not a true statement. As far as I am concerned, obedience to the Law is one's only means of salvation. Since the gospels are on denial of this truth, they have become a delusion for those who believe that salvation is that easy. We all have to be reminded that faith without the works of the Law is as good as a body without the breath of life. DEAD if you know what James meant. (James 2:26)

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 03:39 PM
Those that are alive when Christ returns will be judged, Revelation 6:15-17.

And just think, you are as of now in unbelief! You are probably one of these 2 Thessalonians 1:8 !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 05:38 PM
That's absolutely not a true statement. As far as I am concerned, obedience to the Law is one's only means of salvation. Since the gospels are on denial of this truth, they have become a delusion for those who believe that salvation is that easy. We all have to be reminded that faith without the works of the Law is as good as a body without the breath of life. DEAD if you know what James meant. (James 2:26)

Paul said that by the law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20.

And then in Galatians he said that no man is justified by the law, Galatians 3:11.

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 05:39 PM
And just think, you are as of now in unbelief! You are probably one of these 2 Thessalonians 1:8 !

You have embraced a false Gospel.

brewmama
November 3rd, 2015, 06:03 PM
The churches that Paul founded were Gospel believing churches. Not like the organized religion churches of today.

There is no Gospel or very little Gospel in todays organized church.

Christ's church is an invisible church. It does not have a building or a paid staff. It is composed of blood bought believers.

That is ridiculous. You don't know what you are talking about. Some of the churches Paul founded continue on today exactly as he founded them.

You can stay out of churches if you want to, fine with me, but you shouldn't lie about them.

brewmama
November 3rd, 2015, 06:05 PM
What do you have against identifying yourself as Roman Catholic?

Maybe that I'm not Roman Catholic? The Orthodox Church for some reason is not listed as an option, though I did put in a request.

musterion
November 3rd, 2015, 06:09 PM
Maybe that I'm not Roman Catholic? The Orthodox Church for some reason is not listed as an option, though I did put in a request.

No real difference. Essentially the same false gospel.

brewmama
November 3rd, 2015, 06:14 PM
No real difference. Essentially the same false gospel.


Right. The apostolic teachings passed down by the apostles is a false gospel. Hey, suit yourself, your loss!

musterion
November 3rd, 2015, 06:21 PM
Right. The apostolic teachings passed down by the apostles is a false gospel. Hey, suit yourself, your loss!

Wrong apostle.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 06:40 PM
You have embraced a false Gospel.

No you have and you don't obey the True Gospel!

Cruciform
November 3rd, 2015, 07:04 PM
It is not the Gospel plus Calvinism or The Gospel plus Catholicism.
...or the Gospel plus Pate-ism.

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:19 PM
...or the Gospel plus Pate-ism.


Its the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:26 PM
Its the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

You don't believe those scriptures!

Those that are under Gods Wrath and condemnation can't possibly be of the world of 2Cor5:19 !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:38 PM
You don't believe those scriptures!

Those that are under Gods Wrath and condemnation can't possibly be of the world of 2Cor5:19 !

You have a lot of trouble with the Bible. You don't understand it because it was written for Christians, not "others".

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:41 PM
You have a lot of trouble with the Bible. You don't understand it because it was written for Christians, not "others".

How can folk under God's condemnation and wrath John 3:18,36 be of the world of 2Cor5 :19 a world without blame before God? Duh !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:47 PM
How can folk under God's condemnation and wrath John 3:18,36 be of the world of 2Cor5 :19 a world without blame before God? Duh !

You have a lot of trouble with the Bible.

You seem to think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

There is nothing wrong with the Bible, but there is plenty wrong with you.

brewmama
November 3rd, 2015, 10:36 PM
Wrong apostle.

Whatever that means! :idunno:

Cruciform
November 3rd, 2015, 10:36 PM
Its the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Yes---NOT Pate's opinion about what constitutes "the Gospel."

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 01:57 AM
You have a lot of trouble with the Bible.

You seem to think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

There is nothing wrong with the Bible, but there is plenty wrong with you.

You evaded the question again!

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 08:33 AM
Yes---NOT Pate's opinion about what constitutes "the Gospel."

You want to believe that the Gospel is shrouded in mystery and that only a Catholic priest can understand it.

the Gospel is a really a very simple message that even a small child can understand. Here it is.

Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his doing and his dying he makes us acceptable to God.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 08:44 AM
You want to believe that the Gospel is shrouded in mystery and that only a Catholic priest can understand it.

the Gospel is a really a very simple message that even a small child can understand. Here it is.

Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his doing and his dying he makes us acceptable to God.

You dont believe the Gospel ! And its a Mystery to the natural mind !

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 04:06 PM
You dont believe the Gospel ! And its a Mystery to the natural mind !

I understand it completely.

You are the one that does not believe that Jesus is the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 04:08 PM
I understand it completely.

You are the one that does not believe that Jesus is the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

:thumb:

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:26 PM
I understand it completely.

You are the one that does not believe that Jesus is the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

You dont believe or understand that scripture, it is a Mystery to you!

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 09:26 AM
You dont believe or understand that scripture, it is a Mystery to you!

I understand the Bible and I understand it completely.

It is a wonderful book, full of truth.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 10:43 AM
I understand the Bible and I understand it completely.

It is a wonderful book, full of truth.

Hey, Paul said God shall send them a strong delusion that they believe a lie ! You are a prime example of that !

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 01:56 PM
Hey, Paul said God shall send them a strong delusion that they believe a lie ! You are a prime example of that !

You believe that the Bible is a terrible mistake and is full of mistakes and half truths.

"Who will have all men to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth" 1 Timothy 2:4.

If you had your way that scripture would not be in the Bible.

Bright Raven
November 5th, 2015, 02:00 PM
Hey, Paul said God shall send them a strong delusion that they believe a lie ! You are a prime example of that !

Do you believe that Jesus is the Saviour of the world?

Ben Masada
November 5th, 2015, 02:09 PM
1 - Paul said that by the law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20.

2 - And then in Galatians he said that no man is justified by the law, Galatians 3:11.

1 - Do you know something? I agree with Paul on this one. When one comes to know that he or she is in sin, the chance is right there to set things right with the Lord through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19)

2 - Paul always had a grudge against the Law because the truth is that faith without the works of the Law is as good as a body without the breath of life. Dead if you know what James meant in James 2:26.

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 02:17 PM
1 - Do you know something? I agree with Paul on this one. When one comes to know that he or she is in sin, the chance is right there to set things right with the Lord through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19)

2 - Paul always had a grudge against the Law because the truth is that faith without the works of the Law is as good as a body without the breath of life. Dead if you know what James meant in James 2:26.


The law is the very nature and character of God.

Now, tell me that you can obey the law and be like God.

This is why Paul said, " By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Ben Masada
November 5th, 2015, 02:29 PM
The law is the very nature and character of God.

Now, tell me that you can obey the law and be like God.

This is why Paul said, " By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Right. That's why He gave us the Law as a result of His grace. The Lord also knows that there has never been a man upon earth who has done only good and never sinned. (Eccles. 7:20) Hence, He gave us the way to set things right with Him whenever we brake the Law. (Isa. 1:18,19) No one is perfect although we must always be found in the struggle to be.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 03:04 PM
You believe that the Bible is a terrible mistake and is full of mistakes and half truths.

"Who will have all men to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth" 1 Timothy 2:4.

If you had your way that scripture would not be in the Bible.

You will believe a lie until Judgment Day, then you will be condemned! Thank God I'm not you, a vessel of wrath being fitted for destruction!

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 05:13 PM
You will believe a lie until Judgment Day, then you will be condemned! Thank God I'm not you, a vessel of wrath being fitted for destruction!

You oppose 1 Timothy 2:4 and in doing so oppose Paul and the apostles and the truth of the Gospel.

If anyone is under God's wrath it is you.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 06:28 PM
You oppose 1 Timothy 2:4 and in doing so oppose Paul and the apostles and the truth of the Gospel.

If anyone is under God's wrath it is you.

You dont believe that scripture and you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace, Calvinism!

Cruciform
November 5th, 2015, 10:18 PM
You want to believe that the Gospel is shrouded in mystery and that only a Catholic priest can understand it.
Yet another Straw Man Fallacy on your part. Back to Post #50.

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 07:55 AM
Yet another Straw Man Fallacy on your part. Back to Post #50.


Anyone can read the Bible and understand it, if they are Christians.

It is those who are not Christians that cannot understand it.

beloved57
November 6th, 2015, 10:01 AM
Anyone can read the Bible and understand it, if they are Christians.

It is those who are not Christians that cannot understand it.

What's your excuse for not understanding the Bible you read?

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 10:13 AM
What's your excuse for not understanding the Bible you read?

You are the one that has a problem with the Bible.

I believe and understand it completely.

beloved57
November 6th, 2015, 11:02 AM
You are the one that has a problem with the Bible.

I believe and understand it completely.

You dont embrace the Gospel!

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 02:10 PM
You dont embrace the Gospel!

Why do you say that Pate does not embrace the gospel?

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 04:07 PM
Anyone can read the Bible and understand it, if they are Christians. It is those who are not Christians that cannot understand it.
Well sure! That certainly explains the some 50,000+ competing and contradictory recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today, with more being concocted every week! :doh: Don't bother.

Back to Post #50 above.

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 04:20 PM
Well sure! That certainly explains the some 50,000+ competing and contradictory recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today, with more being concocted every week! :doh: Don't bother.

Back to Post #50 above.

So are you saying that only a Catholic can understand the scriptures?

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 04:57 PM
So are you saying that only a Catholic can understand the scriptures?
I'm saying that the only infallible criterion by which we (Catholics included) can know---and not just hope---that we properly understand the Scriptures is to compare our individual interpretations (opinions) with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html).

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 05:04 PM
So you can only properly interpret scripture through the auspices of the Catholic Church?

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 05:04 PM
I'm saying that the only infallible criterion by which we (Catholics included) know---and not just hope---that we properly understand the Scriptures is to compare our individual interpretations (opinions) with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html).


Authoriatative? There is no mention in the Bible of a Catholic church in Rome.

John wrote to the 7 churches in Asia, Revelation 1:4. No mention of a church in Rome.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:09 PM
So you can only properly interpret scripture through the auspices of the Catholic Church?
There are times when a Protestant may interpret the Bible correctly. However, the only way to KNOW (and not merely assume) whether or not he has is by comparing his opinion with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church (1 Tim 3:15).

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:12 PM
Authoriatative? There is no mention in the Bible of a Catholic church in Rome.
We're still waiting for you to produce the biblical text which states that "Only words that specifically appear in the Bible may be used bu Christians to express their beliefs." Chapter-and-verse, please.

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 05:16 PM
There are times when a Protestant may interpret the Bible correctly. However, the only way to KNOW (and not merely assume) whether or not he has is by comparing his opinion with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church (1 Tim 3:15).

So in essence, the only truth you have comes from the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 05:18 PM
We're still waiting for you to produce the biblical text which states that "Only words that specifically appear in the Bible may be used bu Christians to express their beliefs." Chapter-and-verse, please.

The Bible is a witness to Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

What are you going to build your faith on if it is not the scriptures?

This is your problem, you want to believe what some one wrote that has no authority.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:26 PM
So in essence, the only truth you have comes from the teachings of the Catholic Church?
The only truth that any Christian has had for the past two millennia has come from Christ's one historic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html). This is evident in the New Testament itself (e.g., Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6), so it's odd that this seems to surprise you.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:27 PM
The Bible is a witness to Jesus Christ and his Gospel.What are you going to build your faith on if it is not the scriptures?This is your problem, you want to believe what some one wrote that has no authority.
Still waiting for your answer to Post #79.

Robert Pate
November 6th, 2015, 05:29 PM
The only truth that any Christian has had for the past two millennia has come from Christ's one historic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html). This is evident in the New Testament itself (e.g., Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6), so it's odd that this seems to surprise you.

Your dreaming.

The apostles wrote long before there was a Catholic church.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:33 PM
Your dreaming. The apostles wrote long before there was a Catholic church.
Your ignorance of history is showing. By the end of the 1st century, Christ's one historic Church was already being commonly referred to as "the Catholic Church." Try again.

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 05:44 PM
The only truth that any Christian has had for the past two millennia has come from Christ's one historic Church (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html). This is evident in the New Testament itself (e.g., Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6), so it's odd that this seems to surprise you.

The teaching I adhere to comes straight out of scripture;

2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 05:55 PM
The teaching I adhere to comes straight out of scripture;

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Me too. How do you imagine this verse in any way contradicts the Catholic position?

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 05:57 PM
Me too. How do you imagine this verse in any way contradicts the Catholic position?

Why would you need a church s position? I thought that your position was based solely on the Church?

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 06:31 PM
Why would you need a church s position? I thought that your position was based solely on the Church?
Yes, the one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, whose teachings Jesus equates with his very own teachings in truth and authority (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15), so that what the Church teaches Jesus teaches, and vice versa.

Again:

"How do you imagine that 2 Tim. 3:16-17 in any way contradicts the Catholic position?"



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 06:34 PM
Yes, the one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, whose teachings Jesus equates with his very own teachings in truth and authority (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15), so that what the Church teaches Jesus teaches, and vice versa.

Again:

"How do you imagine that 2 Tim. 3:16-17 in any way contradicts the Catholic position?"



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

It is a verse that embraces Sola Scriptura which is unacceptable to the Catholic Church.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 06:36 PM
It is a verse that embraces Sola Scriptura...
Not even close (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html). :darwinsm:

Bright Raven
November 6th, 2015, 06:42 PM
Not even close (http://scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html). :darwinsm:

Rebuttal from a Catholic Website. :kookoo: :rotfl: Would you even come close to accepting that scripture alone as truth. Of course not.

Cruciform
November 6th, 2015, 10:19 PM
Rebuttal from a Catholic Website. :kookoo: :rotfl:
Did you actually expect a rebuttal from a sola scriptura Protestant website? :kookoo: :rotfl:

If you disagree with my source, feel free to actually disprove the information provided in Post #91 above. Give it a try.


Would you even come close to accepting that scripture alone as truth.
If it were actually taught in the New Testament, and weren't a directly self-refuting proposition, I would be more than happy to embrace sola scriptura (again). As it stands, no one in the first fifteen centuries of Christian history believed or taught any such notion, nor is it taught anywhere in the Bible itself. (See Post #91 above.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
November 7th, 2015, 03:54 PM
Did you actually expect a rebuttal from a sola scriptura Protestant website? :kookoo: :rotfl:

If you disagree with my source, feel free to actually disprove the information provided in Post #91 above. Give it a try.


If it were actually taught in the New Testament, and weren't a directly self-refuting proposition, I would be more than happy to embrace sola scriptura (again). As it stands, no one in the first fifteen centuries of Christian history believed or taught any such notion, nor is it taught anywhere in the Bible itself. (See Post #91 above.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

What about 2 Timothy 3:14-17.

Cruciform
November 7th, 2015, 06:09 PM
What about 2 Timothy 3:14-17.
Already decisively answered---and refuted---in Post #91 above.

aikido7
November 7th, 2015, 06:19 PM
Jesus preached the coming/already here Kingdom of God in parables.

It seems to me that this should be our standard.

Robert Pate
November 8th, 2015, 09:42 AM
Jesus preached the coming/already here Kingdom of God in parables.

It seems to me that this should be our standard.

The "Kingdom Gospel" is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Gospel that Paul preached is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus did not preach that Gospel. He left it up to the apostles.

beloved57
November 8th, 2015, 04:58 PM
The "Kingdom Gospel" is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Gospel that Paul preached is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus did not preach that Gospel. He left it up to the apostles.

Invalid comment!

Robert Pate
November 8th, 2015, 08:27 PM
Invalid comment!

All that you want to do on this Forum is to harass Christians, that is your objective.

Knight should give you the boot.

aikido7
November 8th, 2015, 09:17 PM
The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Paul said that the Gospel... "Is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all that one needs to be saved. Faith in Christ and his Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. Religion, whether it be the Calvinist religion or the Catholic religion or whatever religion is not the way. Religion is the broadway that leads to destruction and "Many there be that go that way" Matthew 7:13.

There was no religion in the early church. What there was, was people that wanted to live according to rules and laws. Paul was continually preaching against living this way. Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. and not by rules and laws. To live by faith is to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

It is not the Gospel plus Calvinism or The Gospel plus Catholicism. It is the Gospel plus nothing. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost, that come unto God by Jesus Christ" Hebrews 7:25.

Is your religion able to save you to the uttermost? Religion is a diversion away from Christ and his Gospel. There is no Spirit in religion. Religion is anti-Christ and anti-Gospel. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who are trusting in Christ and his Gospel for their salvation. "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Religion) or by the hearing of faith" Galatians 3:2. Which is the Gospel.Paulís theology was his own interpretation of the crucifixion and resurrection.

Twenty years before Paul was Jesus. We should go to the source for historical truth, not the later interpretations of that source.

aikido7
November 8th, 2015, 09:19 PM
The "Kingdom Gospel" is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Gospel that Paul preached is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus did not preach that Gospel. He left it up to the apostles.Every one of the worldís faiths changed or added to the original vision of their founders.

This is the way of all worldly things. Itís all about interpretations of human beings of the inspired interpretations of the biblical authors.

Bright Raven
November 8th, 2015, 09:31 PM
Did you actually expect a rebuttal from a sola scriptura Protestant website? :kookoo: :rotfl:

If you disagree with my source, feel free to actually disprove the information provided in Post #91 above. Give it a try.


If it were actually taught in the New Testament, and weren't a directly self-refuting proposition, I would be more than happy to embrace sola scriptura (again). As it stands, no one in the first fifteen centuries of Christian history believed or taught any such notion, nor is it taught anywhere in the Bible itself. (See Post #91 above.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
I expected maybe something from you. well, nuff said about that.

aikido7
November 8th, 2015, 09:40 PM
Many scholars already know that the people represented in the New Testament didn’t consider themselves Christians.

But instead of static theological interpretations about Jesus or God, the early Christian writings can teach us a number of creative and improvised ways of trying to make sense of who one is, where one belongs, and what God means in the face of loss.

brewmama
November 8th, 2015, 10:10 PM
It is a verse that embraces Sola Scriptura which is unacceptable to the Catholic Church.

How do you POSSIBLY get that interpretation from that verse? It never ever ever ever says SOLA.

brewmama
November 8th, 2015, 10:14 PM
The teaching I adhere to comes straight out of scripture;

2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And you do know that the "scriptures" referred to there are just the OT?
So to be the literalist that you are, you should only use the OT.
Especially since the NT came from that despised, evil CHURCH.

Cruciform
November 8th, 2015, 10:59 PM
I expected maybe something from you.
...and you received precisely that in Post #93 above. Also, your inability to actually disprove the content of Post #91 is noted; thus, my statements stand exactly as posted.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 01:38 AM
All that you want to do on this Forum is to harass Christians, that is your objective.

Knight should give you the boot.

A Christian is one that believes the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, which you do not!

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 09:14 AM
A Christian is one that believes the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, which you do not!

A Christian is one that is trusting in Christ alone for their salvation. This leaves you and John Calvin out.

chrysostom
November 9th, 2015, 09:17 AM
can we trust in pate?

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 12:41 PM
can we trust in pate?


No, but you can trust in the Bible that I frequently quote, that reveals we are justified by faith without works, Romans 4:5.

beloved57
November 9th, 2015, 01:26 PM
No, but you can trust in the Bible that I frequently quote, that reveals we are justified by faith without works, Romans 4:5.

You dont believe that scripture, you teach that a person is Justifed by his work, by something he must do. You call it Rom 10:13, thats a work !

aikido7
November 9th, 2015, 01:30 PM
The "Kingdom Gospel" is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.

The Gospel that Paul preached is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus did not preach that Gospel. He left it up to the apostles.That is the result of the fact that Paulís theology was an interpretation of the meaning of Jesusís death.

First came Jesus, then came the man-made theologies and meanings that were attached to him after his death.

chrysostom
November 9th, 2015, 01:32 PM
No, but you can trust in the Bible that I frequently quote, that reveals we are justified by faith without works, Romans 4:5.

pate tells us what the bible says
that
makes him a religion
pate's interpretation of the bible is wrong
that
makes pate a false religion

Ben Masada
November 9th, 2015, 03:13 PM
can we trust in pate?

Absolutely not!

Ben Masada
November 9th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Many scholars already know that the people represented in the New Testament didnít consider themselves Christians.

But instead of static theological interpretations about Jesus or God, the early Christian writings can teach us a number of creative and improvised ways of trying to make sense of who one is, where one belongs, and what God means in the face of loss.

True but, only after Acts 11:26. That's when Paul founded Christianity in Antioch and his followers started being called Christians for the first time.

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 05:26 PM
pate tells us what the bible says
that
makes him a religion
pate's interpretation of the bible is wrong
that
makes pate a false religion

The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ calls your Catholic religion into question.

My interpretations are right. Whats wrong is your Catholic religion.

The Gospel justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

What does your Catholic religion do? Besides deceiving millions.

Robert Pate
November 9th, 2015, 05:28 PM
Absolutely not!

The law will not save you.

What the law will do is condemn you to hell, Romans 3:20.

beloved57
November 10th, 2015, 12:05 PM
The law will not save you.

What the law will do is condemn you to hell, Romans 3:20.

You teach salvation by work's of the law too!

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 08:26 AM
You teach salvation by work's of the law too!


Your a liar and your father is the author of all lies.

beloved57
November 11th, 2015, 08:32 AM
Your a liar and your father is the author of all lies.

Thats you, and a false accuser !

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2015, 04:06 PM
Thats you, and a false accuser !


You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

A sure sign of a heretic.

beloved57
November 11th, 2015, 04:15 PM
You think that some scriptures cancel out other scriptures.

A sure sign of a heretic.

That is what you think! That and the fact you don't believe the scripture!

aikido7
November 11th, 2015, 07:56 PM
True but, only after Acts 11:26. That's when Paul founded Christianity in Antioch and his followers started being called Christians for the first time.I don't agree with your idea that Paul "founded" Christianity.

My view is that he--like Jesus--was pushing the envelope of normative Judaism.

Paul always considered himself a Jew, first and foremost, didn't he?