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intojoy
October 30th, 2015, 11:54 PM
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. Its not advice that is the message of the bible, but it is news, good news. The news that God has intervened on our behalf, and has provided forgiveness for our sins.
We are beings that need unconditional all accepting love. Our problem is that none of us know how to give this kind of love because all of our love is conditional in some way and is self serving. But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin. Why? Because we needed love. And so that we could receive the kind of love we as beings so desperately needed - unconditional, accepting love and so that we could become the kind of people He created us to be.

It's not what we can do for God but what He has done for us. He entered "our world," He took on
"our humanity," He bore "our sins," He died "our death, "He was resurrected for "our life," He's coming again for "our glorification."
Paul in his letter to the Romans is urging us on the basis of all that he taught on, on the basis of all that has been done, he urges us to become living sacrifices:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1, 2 KJV)
"therefore" meaning all Paul taught concerning grace and mercy, we have become thru Christ the objects of God's omnipotent, eternal love.

If we have not understood all that the mercies of God has done, if we have not understood doctrinally and theologically deep enough, all that Messiah has accomplished for us, then we have become useless to him. God is calling us to live our lives as living sacrifices unto him. Our problem is, we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. When a sacrifice was laid upon the altar there was a great deal of suffering involved, the animal experienced pain and suffering. What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to place upon the altar? So that we can become a blessing to others, and become servants of the Most High God?

JonahofAkron
October 31st, 2015, 12:07 AM
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. Its not advice that is the message of the bible, but it is news, good news. The news that God has intervened on our behalf, and has provided forgiveness for our sins.
We are beings that need unconditional all accepting love. Our problem is that none of us know how to give this kind of love because all of our love is conditional in some way and is self serving. But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin. Why? Because we needed love. And so that we could receive the kind of love we as beings so desperately needed - unconditional, accepting love and so that we could become the kind of people He created us to be.

It's not what we can do for God but what He has done for us. He entered "our world," He took on
"our humanity," He bore "our sins," He died "our death, "He was resurrected for "our life," He's coming again for "our glorification."
Paul in his letter to the Romans is urging us on the basis of all that he taught on, on the basis of all that has been done, he urges us to become living sacrifices:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1, 2 KJV)
"therefore" meaning all Paul taught concerning grace and mercy, we have become thru Christ the objects of God's omnipotent, eternal love.

If we have not understood all that the mercies of God has done, if we have not understood doctrinally and theologically deep enough, all that Messiah has accomplished for us, then we have become useless to him. God is calling us to live our lives as living sacrifices unto him. Our problem is, we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. When a sacrifice was laid upon the altar there was a great deal of suffering involved, the animal experienced pain and suffering. What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to place upon the altar? So that we can become a blessing to others, and become servants of the Most High God?

Amen

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:10 AM
If the Old Testament only spoke of the Messiah in terms of His suffering, it would hardly give us enough to go on, but there is much more to the Old Testament picture of the Messiah than that which is found in Isaiah 53. In other passages, there is often less conflict, if any at all, than the conflict over Isaiah 53. These other passages, taken along with Isaiah 53, go a long way to show how the Messiah was to be a thoroughly unique Person.

Here they are Ben

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:12 AM
Genesis 3:15

Following the account of the Creation, the Old Testament continues with the story of Adam and Eve. In the guise of a serpent, Satan deceives Eve and causes her to break the one commandment of God. Adam follows suit. The result is that sin enters the human family and the human experience. Man now stands under the righteous judgment of God. Nevertheless, at the time of the Fall, God provides for future redemption. As He addresses Satan, God says in

Genesis 3:15: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. The key note of this verse is the statement: seed of the woman.

In and of itself, this statement may not seem unusual, but in the context of biblical teaching, it is most unusual. Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, lineage was never reckoned after the woman, but only after the man. In all the genealogies we have in the biblical record, women are virtually ignored because they are unimportant in determining genealogy. Yet the future Person who would crush Satan's head, while only suffering a slight wound Himself, would not be reckoned after a man, but after a woman. In the biblical pattern, this is highly unusual. In spite of the normal biblical pattern, we have a clear statement that the future Redeemer comes from the “seed of the woman.” His birth will take into account His mother only. For a reason that is not explained here, the father will not be taken into account at all. Yet this goes totally contrary to the whole biblical view regarding genealogies. That this verse was taken to be messianic is clear from the “Targums of Jonathan” and the “Jerusalem Targums.” Furthermore, the Talmudic expression, “Heels of the Messiah,” seems to have been taken from this verse. But Genesis itself does not explain how or why this Redeemer can be labeled “seed of the woman” when it goes contrary to the biblical pattern.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:19 AM
Isaiah 7:14

Centuries later, Israel had a great prophet in the person of Isaiah. It was left to this prophet to explain the meaning and reason why the Messiah would be reckoned only after the seed of the woman. Isaiah writes in Isaiah 7:14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. The very fact that the birth of the Person spoken of in this passage is described as a sign points to some unusual circumstance regarding the birth. In other words, the birth could not be normal, for that would not fulfill the requirement of the word sign. It had to be unusual in some way, perhaps miraculous or, at least, attention-getting.

The very existence of the Jewish people is derived from a sign of a birth. The Scriptures make it clear that both Abraham and Sarah were beyond the point of being able to bear children; Abraham was ninety-nine years old, and Sarah, eighty-nine. She had, of course, already undergone menopause when, in Genesis 18, God promised that Sarah would have a son within one year! This would be the sign that God will keep his covenant with Abraham and will make a great nation from him. A year later, this sign took place with the birth of Isaac, through whom the Jewish people came. It was the sign needed to authenticate the covenant. This was a miraculous birth.

The birth of the son in Isaiah 7:14 was also to be a sign, to be unusual in some way. But this time, the unusual nature of the birth was not going to be due to the great age of the mother. It would be a sign by virtue of the fact that this son would be born of a virgin.

Right at this point, another conflict often ensues. Rabbi's today claim that the Hebrew word almah does not mean “virgin,” but “young woman.” But what they fail to explain is how this would be used as a sign. A young woman giving birth to a baby is hardly unusual, in fact, it happens all the time!

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:22 AM
In other passages where this word is used, almah clearly means “virgin.” It is used in six other places in the Old Testament outside of Isaiah 7:14. In all six other places, no one argues that the word means a “virgin.” If it means a “virgin” in those six other passages, there is no way it could mean a “non-virgin” in Isaiah 7:14. About 250 B.C., seventy Jewish rabbis translated the Greek version of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint. These seventy rabbis all made almah to read parthenos, which is the simple Greek word for “virgin.” Even if almah is allowed to mean “young woman,” it still must be admitted that the word can refer to a “virginal young woman.” It must not be ignored that this birth was to be a sign, an unusual birth. This is best seen if taken to mean a “virgin birth.” This, then, is the explanation of the mystery of Genesis 3:15. The Messiah would be reckoned after the seed of a woman because He would not have a human father. Because of a Virgin Birth, His lineage could be traced only through His mother and not His father. Thus, Isaiah 7:14 clarifies the meaning of Genesis 3:15: the Messiah will enter the world by means of a Virgin Birth.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:25 AM
Micah 5:2

Not only was the means of the Messiah's birth prophesied, but also the place of His birth was prophesied. This was done by the Prophet Micah, a contemporary of Isaiah. In chapter 5 of his book, we read in verse 2: But you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which are little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of you shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. Concerning this verse, there is far less disagreement among Orthodox rabbis, since they generally take this to mean that the Messiah will originate from Bethlehem. This is the view taken by “The Soncino Books of the Bible,” which is the Orthodox Jewish commentary on the Old Testament and which takes as its source some earlier Jewish commentaries.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:27 AM
Another point that is uncontested is that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David. From this comes the rabbinical ascription of the title, “Messiah, the Son of David.” Of the numerous passages that might be cited, we will limit ourselves to the following two, both from Isaiah. The first passage is Isaiah 11:1: And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

And the second passage is Isaiah 11:10: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that stands for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious. Jesse was the father of David, thus, these passages show that the Messiah will come from the House of David. To this, all Orthodox Judaism agrees. Other passages regarding this same point will be cited later in a different context.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:32 AM
The above was taken from Ariel.org
My dear friend Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:34 AM
Isaiah 53

That the Messiah will suffer and die was something upon which all early rabbis agreed. They referred to the Suffering Messiah as “Messiah, the Son of Joseph,” making Him distinct from Messiah, the Son of David. The central passage, which supports this view, is Isaiah 53.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:37 AM
Psalm 22

This is another passage dealing with the suffering of the Messiah. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry in the daytime, but you answer not; And in the night season, and am not silent. But you are holy, O you that inhabit the praises of Israel. Our fathers trusted in you: They trusted, and you did deliver them. They cried unto you, and were delivered: They trusted in you, and were not put to shame. But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, Commit yourself unto Jehovah; Let him deliver him: Let him rescue him, seeing he delights in him. But you are he that took me out of the womb; You did make me trust when I was upon my mother's breasts. I was cast upon you from the womb; You are my God since my mother bare me. Be not far from me; For trouble is near; For there is none to help. Many bulls have compassed me; Strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. They gape upon me with their mouth. As a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water And all my bones are out of joint: My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have compassed me: A company of evil-doers have inclosed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. I may count all my bones; They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots. But be not you far off, O Jehovah: O you my succor, haste you to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword, My darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth; Yea, from the horns of the wild-oxen you have answered me.

To summarize this passage, we find that the Messiah is forsaken by God; is ridiculed and tormented by the people; and His clothes are gambled away by His tormentors. He suffers such agony that all His bones come out of joint; His heart breaks with a mixture of blood and water; and His hands and feet are pierced. In many ways, this Psalm is very similar to Isaiah 53, providing even more detail as to the type of suffering and agony that the Messiah must undergo. The rabbis in the Yalkut also understood this passage to refer to Messiah, the Son of Joseph.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:39 AM
In all the passages discussed so far, the Messiah was portrayed as a man, but as a man of sorrows; He was to suffer and die. The earlier rabbis all recognized that these passages speak of the Messiah and called Him Messiah, the Son of Joseph. For as Joseph the Patriarch suffered at the hands of his brethren, the Messiah would also suffer.

But other Old Testament passages speak of another kind of Messiah: not a sufferer, but a conqueror; not a dying Messiah, but a reigning One. This One was called “Messiah, the Son of David” by the rabbis. Most of what is said about the Messiah in Moses and the Prophets revolves around the Messiah's coming to bring peace and to establish the Messianic Kingdom in Israel.

There are far too many such passages to even begin to list them here, but two such passages will be quoted in full. It should be noted how differently this Messiah is portrayed in comparison with all the previous passages thus far discussed. It is little wonder that the early rabbis were confused and so devised the Theory of the Two Messiahs, with each Messiah coming only once.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:41 AM
Isaiah 11:1-10

And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit. And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins. And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that stands for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious.

Both the ancient and modern rabbis agree that this passage speaks of the Messiah and the Messianic Age. But unlike the previous passages, there is no picture of a dying Messiah being rebuked and despised by His people. The picture we get here is of a reigning Messiah who brings peace and prosperity to the entire world; peace extends down to the animal kingdom; the wicked are removed in judgment; and differences between the nations are settled by the Messiah's authoritative word. The knowledge of the God of Israel spreads until it covers the entire world. Now that the reigning Messiah has brought peace and prosperity to it, the whole world has an intimate knowledge of the God who created it.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:44 AM
Psalm 72:1-19

This is a second passage, which gives the same picture.

Give the king your judgments, O God, And your righteousness unto the king's son. He will judge your people with righteousness, And your poor with justice. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, And the hills, in righteousness. He will judge the poor of the people He will save the children of the needy, And will break in pieces the oppressor. They shall fear you while the sun endures, And so long as the moon, throughout all generations. He will come down like rain upon the mown grass, As showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace, till the moon be no more. He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, And from the River unto the ends of the earth. They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; And his enemies shall lick the dust. The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall render tribute: The kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him; All nations shall serve him. For he will deliver the needy when he crieth, And the poor, that has no helper. He will have pity on the poor and needy, And the souls of the needy he will save. He will redeem their soul from oppression and violence; And precious will their blood be in his sight: And they shall live; and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: And men shall pray for him continually; They shall bless him all the day long. There shall be abundance of grain in the earth upon the top of the mountains; The fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: And they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth. His name shall endure for ever; His name shall be continued as long as the sun: And men shall be blessed in him; All nations shall call him happy. Blessed be Jehovah God, the God of Israel, Who only does wondrous things: And blessed be his glorious name for ever; And let the whole earth be filled with his glory. Amen, and Amen.

This Psalm is applied as speaking of the righteous reign of the Messiah in the Talmud. The Targums make the first verse to read as follows: “Give the sentence of your judgment to the King Messiah, and your justice to the son of David the King.” The Midrash on the Psalms follows suit and connects this Psalm with Isaiah 11:1, which was quoted previously. Furthermore, among the many different names given to the Messiah by the rabbis of the Talmud, the name Yinnon was taken from the Hebrew rendering of verse 17 in this very Psalm.

So this passage also presents a different view of the Messiah than the others discussed earlier in this study. This, then, is a twofold picture presenting a major problem to anyone trying to formulate what the Old Testament has to say about the Messiah.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 12:46 AM
More later

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 01:26 PM
The Messiah of the Old Testament and Jewish evangelism

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 02:52 PM
Benskeez

chair
November 16th, 2015, 03:19 PM
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. ...

This "debt" only exists in Christian mythology. You invent a problem, then claim that "only we have the solution".

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 03:49 PM
This "debt" only exists in Christian mythology. You invent a problem, then claim that "only we have the solution".

Cher, you can believe that if you wanna no sweat off my back girl

daqq
November 16th, 2015, 03:52 PM
Psalm 22

This is another passage dealing with the suffering of the Messiah. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry in the daytime, but you answer not; And in the night season, and am not silent. But you are holy, O you that inhabit the praises of Israel. Our fathers trusted in you: They trusted, and you did deliver them. They cried unto you, and were delivered: They trusted in you, and were not put to shame. But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, Commit yourself unto Jehovah; Let him deliver him: Let him rescue him, seeing he delights in him. But you are he that took me out of the womb; You did make me trust when I was upon my mother's breasts. I was cast upon you from the womb; You are my God since my mother bare me. Be not far from me; For trouble is near; For there is none to help. Many bulls have compassed me; Strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. They gape upon me with their mouth. As a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water And all my bones are out of joint: My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have compassed me: A company of evil-doers have inclosed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. I may count all my bones; They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots. But be not you far off, O Jehovah: O you my succor, haste you to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword, My darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth; Yea, from the horns of the wild-oxen you have answered me.

To summarize this passage, we find that the Messiah is forsaken by God; is ridiculed and tormented by the people; and His clothes are gambled away by His tormentors. He suffers such agony that all His bones come out of joint; His heart breaks with a mixture of blood and water; and His hands and feet are pierced. In many ways, this Psalm is very similar to Isaiah 53, providing even more detail as to the type of suffering and agony that the Messiah must undergo. The rabbis in the Yalkut also understood this passage to refer to Messiah, the Son of Joseph.

Perhaps if you had read just a little further you would have seen that Messiah was not forsaken by the Father, (if that is indeed Who you mean when you write "forsaken by God").

Psalm 22:22-24
22. I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
23. You that fear YHWH, praise Him; all you of the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him, all you of the seed of Israel.
24. For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath He hid His face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard!

The Father never turned His face away from the Son, not even for a split second: hope that does not throw a wrench in your atonement theory gears. :)

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 03:58 PM
It's what the text says not me

daqq
November 16th, 2015, 04:46 PM
It's what the text says not me

Yes, and the text I quoted also says what it says. That is what "apparent contradictions" are good for, that is, to teach us doctrine by coming to understand why "apparent contradictions" are not actually contradictions at all. Perhaps the common understanding of "Eliy, Eliy", ("Eloi, Eloi", in Mark 15:34) is not then what the many have been led to believe because the Father never turned His face away from the Son according to Psalm 22:23-24.

intojoy
November 16th, 2015, 08:13 PM
Yes, and the text I quoted also says what it says. That is what "apparent contradictions" are good for, that is, to teach us doctrine by coming to understand why "apparent contradictions" are not actually contradictions at all. Perhaps the common understanding of "Eliy, Eliy", ("Eloi, Eloi", in Mark 15:34) is not then what the many have been led to believe because the Father never turned His face away from the Son according to Psalm 22:23-24.


Who told you that? Michael Cadry I bet

daqq
November 17th, 2015, 07:13 AM
Who told you that? Michael Cadry I bet

Why would I want to consume the testimony of one who trusts himself and the USDA (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520623&postcount=342) over and above the Word when it comes to whether or not he should eat swine flesh? It appears you have the wrong Michael. Has there never been a war in your heavens? Some have beheld the Satan fall out of heaven as lightning. Moreover when the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he wanders through arid desert places, seeking rest, and finding none. Then he says, "I will return into my house from whence I came out." And when he is come, he finds it empty, swept, and garnished with idols. Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter into the house and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So it is with the wicked fourth generation beast of a man. However when clean Spirit is surrendered up from the righteous the Spirit returns to the Elohim who gave it. :)

intojoy
November 18th, 2015, 12:45 AM
Goof

daqq
November 18th, 2015, 06:22 AM
Goof


The above was taken from Ariel.org
My dear friend Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Perhaps you may have already consumed too much Fructos and should be more willing to eat the bitter herbs when the Word is set before you on the table of the Father. :think: :) :chuckle:

intojoy
November 18th, 2015, 11:20 AM
Perhaps you may have already consumed too much Fructos and should be more willing to eat the bitter herbs when the Word is set before you on the table of the Father. :think: :) :chuckle:


I have no doubts in my studies. You are full of errors because of your allegorical approach.

Ephram is given to idols

daqq
November 18th, 2015, 12:22 PM
I have no doubts in my studies. You are full of errors because of your allegorical approach.

Ephram is given to idols

Those who claim they understand everything because they take everything they possibly can as "literal", (which generally to such a one actually means naturally and physically) are the true walking, talking, speaking, hypocrites because if indeed what they say of themselves is true, and if indeed they are disciples and followers of Yeshua, then they would have long ago physically plucked out their own right eye for wandering off like a desert nomad wanderer of Kittim, into unsightly things, likewise they would have long ago physically chopped off their own right hand for pointing its finger at others while three fingers of the same hand point back at their own desert nomad wandering right eye; likewise they would have long ago severed that evil foot that is always running swiftly into mischief and taking them off the path and into the ditch. The truth is that you decide for yourself what is "literal" and what is "allegorical", regardless of what Yeshua teaches in all of his parables, idioms, allegories, sayings, and doctrine, but apparently you fail to understand that it is Spirit which is truly "literal" because Spirit cannot be moved by the physical, and yet, the flesh is physical and clearly only temporary. Likewise the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master Teacher. :)

intojoy
November 18th, 2015, 06:39 PM
The Messiah's interpretation of the righteous standards of the Mosaic Law in contradistinction to that which the Pharisees taught.

As I read on in this passage of scripture, it says that the people understood Him clearly. Yet none literally cut of the hand not plucked out the eye.

Because they understood that the house built on the sand was first century Pharisaic Judaism. The Pharisees kept the outward requirements of the 613 laws of Moses. But they were powerless to rid their hearts of sinful thoughts. The law requires inward righteousness in order for man to truly keep it. Outwardly they were righteous but it was self righteousness which according to Yeshua was filthy daqs..

The house built on the Rock is to receive the very righteousness of Messiah by imputation thru faith. When judgement comes I stand firm in Him alone by faith.

patrick jane
November 18th, 2015, 07:09 PM
This "debt" only exists in Christian mythology. You invent a problem, then claim that "only we have the solution".

Unbelief has always been the Jewish problem. They think they believe correctly by leaving Jesus Christ out, unbelief kept them in the desert and still does today. God's been waiting on them - we all are

1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV - 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV -

You should read Paul's epistles, he explains the plight of unbelieving Jews.

chair
November 18th, 2015, 07:30 PM
Unbelief has always been the Jewish problem. They think they believe correctly by leaving Jesus Christ out, unbelief kept them in the desert and still does today. God's been waiting on them - we all are

1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV - 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV -

You should read Paul's epistles, he explains the plight of unbelieving Jews.

We have been around a lot longer than Christianity, and our lack of belief in your man-god is completely natural and correct.

Why do so many Christians think that their beliefs are the default position?

intojoy
November 18th, 2015, 07:32 PM
We have been around a lot longer than Christianity, and our lack of belief in your man-god is completely natural and correct.

Why do so many Christians think that their beliefs are the default position?

My answer: because of Israel, the Jews and my Jewish Messiah

patrick jane
November 18th, 2015, 07:39 PM
My answer: because of Israel, the Jews and my Jewish Messiah

20794

daqq
November 18th, 2015, 08:19 PM
I have no doubts in my studies. You are full of errors because of your allegorical approach.

Ephram is given to idols


The Messiah's interpretation of the righteous standards of the Mosaic Law in contradistinction to that which the Pharisees taught.

As I read on in this passage of scripture, it says that the people understood Him clearly. Yet none literally cut of the hand not plucked out the eye.

Because they understood that the house built on the sand was first century Pharisaic Judaism. The Pharisees kept the outward requirements of the 613 laws of Moses. But they were powerless to rid their hearts of sinful thoughts. The law requires inward righteousness in order for man to truly keep it. Outwardly they were righteous but it was self righteousness which according to Yeshua was filthy daqs..

The house built on the Rock is to receive the very righteousness of Messiah by imputation thru faith. When judgement comes I stand firm in Him alone by faith.

Zechariah 11:15-17
15. And YHWH said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
16. For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, who will not visit those that are cut off, neither will seek those that are scattered, nor heal that which is broken, nor feed that which is sound; but he will eat the flesh of the fat ones, and will tear their hoofs in pieces.
17. Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock: the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

The lamp of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be singular-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness. I know who is Ephraim, and who has an idol shepherd ruling in his land, and it is not me anymore. :chuckle:

intojoy
November 18th, 2015, 08:50 PM
Zechariah 11:15-17
15. And YHWH said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
16. For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, who will not visit those that are cut off, neither will seek those that are scattered, nor heal that which is broken, nor feed that which is sound; but he will eat the flesh of the fat ones, and will tear their hoofs in pieces.
17. Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock: the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

The lamp of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be singular-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness. I know who is Ephraim, and who has an idol shepherd ruling in his land, and it is not me anymore. :chuckle:


Yes, that was Barcochba of the first century.

daqq
November 18th, 2015, 10:36 PM
Yes, that was Barcochba of the first century.

Yes, of course, it was fulfilled in Bar Kochba and therefore it cannot possibly have anything to do with you, eh righteous one? Was the following also fulfilled in the days of Bar Kochba?

Mark 14:26-27
26. And when they had sung a hymn they went out into the mount of Olives.
27. And Yeshua said to them, All of you shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Zechariah 13:7-9
7. Awake, O sword, against My shepherd, and against the man that is My associate, says YHWH Tsabaoth: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered, and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, says YHWH, two parts therein shall be cut off and breathe his last, but the third part shall be left therein:
9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is My people: and they shall say, YHWH is my Elohim.

You do not know that the man is the Land? Two parts in your land will breathe their last, old man, (see Paul) and one of those parts will be a mighty one from the land of *You*, for clearly that is the only way you will learn not to blaspheme those tabernacling in the heavens. Perhaps in the *afterglow* days you will consider it perfectly, if indeed you overcome in your appointed time, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :Shimei: :crackup:

chair
November 18th, 2015, 10:40 PM
My answer: because of Israel, the Jews and my Jewish Messiah

That is no answer at all. You might as well have said "because of peanut butter sandwiches"

False Prophet
November 18th, 2015, 10:46 PM
I thought that you were leaving.

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 09:54 AM
The Golden Rule of Interpretation

When the plain sense of scripture makes perfect sense seek no other sense therefore take every word at its literal fundamental and axiomatic truth unless the immediate context studied in the light of other related passages clearly indicates otherwise.

@daq

daqq
November 19th, 2015, 10:03 AM
The Golden Rule of Interpretation

When the plain sense of scripture makes perfect sense seek no other sense therefore take every word at its literal fundamental and axiomatic truth unless the immediate context studied in the light of other related passages clearly indicates otherwise.

@daq

Been saving this for you from yesterday because I knew you would be posting your literalist mantra sooner or later. And just in case you might need some help I rounded up some passages for you. :)

Here is your literalist mantra:

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense!"

And here are some easy passages that will prove your love, devotion, faithfulness:

Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:7-9 KJV
7. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mark 9:43-48 KJV
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Anyone who is willing to check and read the surrounding contexts of these passages will "plainly" see that there is absolutely no mention of any of these sayings being intended as parables, allegories, or proverbs, and will likewise see that in reading the above quotes the "plain sense" is extremely clear, sharp as a blade, and to the point. If there is anything one may physically do to carry out the commandments of the Master, to demonstrate his or her total belief and reliance upon the Testimony of Yeshua and faithfulness to his doctrine, these are those commandments and this is the perfect opportunity. This is where the rubber meets the road: truly simple, and straight forward plain sense thinking, correct? Yes, no doubt, for how can there be any doubt whatsoever if the popular literalist mantra is correct? If your right eye offends you then pluck it out, plain and simple, and if your hand or foot offends you then cut them off, plain and simple: unless of course you do not truly mean what you say? But since you obviously mean what you say then I would suggest you invest in a professional grade bone saw, and start with your foot so that by the time you get to your right hand at least you will still have two hands left to work with, (ancient proverb say, Never try to saw foot off with left hand if you were once right handed!). Chop, chop!

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense!"

Chop, chop! :crackup:

:sheep:

daqq
November 19th, 2015, 11:38 AM
The Golden Rule of Interpretation

When the plain sense of scripture makes perfect sense seek no other sense therefore take every word at its literal fundamental and axiomatic truth unless the immediate context studied in the light of other related passages clearly indicates otherwise.

@daq

And your "Golden Rule of Interpretation" matches the profile of Yhudas Sikarii. :dead:

John 6:62-64
62. What then if you should behold the Son of man ascending up where he was before?
63. It is the Spirit that makes alive; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.
64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.

And who was it that did not believe Yeshua but betrayed him?
It was Yhudas Sakarii who sought only an earthly physical kingdom.
How is it that your Dr. teacher has not informed you concerning Sakarii?

Zechariah 11:12
12. And I said unto them, If you think it good, give me my price: [skariy] and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price [skariy] thirty pieces of silver.

sakar - "price"
sakariy - "my price"

Yeshua forfeited the global physical empire which you so fervently desire:

John 18:36
36. Yeshua answered, My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Yhudim: but now-hereafter my kingdom is not from this side [enteuthen].

:sheep:

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 01:03 PM
Yes, of course, it was fulfilled in Bar Kochba and therefore it cannot possibly have anything to do with you, eh righteous one? Was the following also fulfilled in the days of Bar Kochba?

Mark 14:26-27
26. And when they had sung a hymn they went out into the mount of Olives.
27. And Yeshua said to them, All of you shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

^^^AT THE CROSS (intoj)

Zechariah 13:7-9
7. Awake, O sword, against My shepherd, and against the man that is My associate, says YHWH Tsabaoth: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered, and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

^^^AT THE CROSS
Hose 5:19 (intoj)


8. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, says YHWH, two parts therein shall be cut off and breathe his last, but the third part shall be left therein:


9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried:

^^^ THE TRIBULATION (intoj)

they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is My people: and they shall say, YHWH is my Elohim.

^^^“Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, Upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself. So shall we not go back from thee: Quicken thou us, and we will call upon thy name. Turn us again, O Jehovah God of hosts; Cause thy face to shine, and we shall be saved.”
**Psalm‬ *80:17-19‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/psa.80.17-19.asv THE SECOND COMING (intoj)
You


do not know that the man is the Land? Two parts in your land will breathe their last, old man, (see Paul) and one of those parts will be a mighty one from the land of *You*, for clearly that is the only way you will learn not to blaspheme those tabernacling in the heavens. Perhaps in the *afterglow* days you will consider it perfectly, if indeed you overcome in your appointed time, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :Shimei: :crackup:

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 01:06 PM
Been saving this for you from yesterday because I knew you would be posting your literalist mantra sooner or later. And just in case you might need some help I rounded up some passages for you. :)

Here is your literalist mantra:

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense!"

And here are some easy passages that will prove your love, devotion, faithfulness:

Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:7-9 KJV
7. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mark 9:43-48 KJV
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Anyone who is willing to check and read the surrounding contexts of these passages will "plainly" see that there is absolutely no mention of any of these sayings being intended as parables, allegories, or proverbs, and will likewise see that in reading the above quotes the "plain sense" is extremely clear, sharp as a blade, and to the point. If there is anything one may physically do to carry out the commandments of the Master, to demonstrate his or her total belief and reliance upon the Testimony of Yeshua and faithfulness to his doctrine, these are those commandments and this is the perfect opportunity. This is where the rubber meets the road: truly simple, and straight forward plain sense thinking, correct? Yes, no doubt, for how can there be any doubt whatsoever if the popular literalist mantra is correct? If your right eye offends you then pluck it out, plain and simple, and if your hand or foot offends you then cut them off, plain and simple: unless of course you do not truly mean what you say? But since you obviously mean what you say then I would suggest you invest in a professional grade bone saw, and start with your foot so that by the time you get to your right hand at least you will still have two hands left to work with, (ancient proverb say, Never try to saw foot off with left hand if you were once right handed!). Chop, chop!

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense!"

Chop, chop! :crackup:

:sheep:

I think I answered this above. But didn't quote your bull...
It's an easy answer.

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 01:07 PM
The Messiah's interpretation of the righteous standards of the Mosaic Law in contradistinction to that which the Pharisees taught.

As I read on in this passage of scripture, it says that the people understood Him clearly. Yet none literally cut of the hand not plucked out the eye.

Because they understood that the house built on the sand was first century Pharisaic Judaism. The Pharisees kept the outward requirements of the 613 laws of Moses. But they were powerless to rid their hearts of sinful thoughts. The law requires inward righteousness in order for man to truly keep it. Outwardly they were righteous but it was self righteousness which according to Yeshua was filthy daqs..

The house built on the Rock is to receive the very righteousness of Messiah by imputation thru faith. When judgement comes I stand firm in Him alone by faith.

Here it is Doug. Read and learn my son

daqq
November 19th, 2015, 01:32 PM
I think I answered this above. But didn't quote your bull...
It's an easy answer.


Here it is Doug. Read and learn my son

Hahaha, your answer to everything is "at the cross" and "the tribulation"? Have you no capability to judge what is within and of yourself? Well, after seeing your answer to Chair, at least you are consistent in your woefully inadequate and incompetent responses. And who is Doug? The response which you have quoted once again, from yourself, was originally addressed to me, (whom you have now called once again "filthy daq" by quoting yourself). You may have a son named Doug but I am neither Doug nor your son. Three evil shepherds of the flesh I cut off in the space of a year: an evil eye, the right hand of power, and a loose foot always running swiftly into mischief. And my soul detested them, and their soul also abhorred me. Then I said, I will not feed you: that which is dying, let die, and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off, and let the rest eat every one the flesh of its neighbor. Who are you to me then? Certainly not a father! :rotfl: :kookoo:

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 01:42 PM
Hahaha, your answer to everything is "at the cross" and "the tribulation"? Have you no capability to judge what is within and of yourself? Well, after seeing your answer to Chair, at least you are consistent in your woefully inadequate and incompetent responses. And who is Doug? The response which you have quoted once again, from yourself, was originally addressed to me, (whom you have now called once again "filthy daq" by quoting yourself). You may have a son named Doug but I am neither Doug nor your son. Three evil shepherds of the flesh I cut off in the space of a year: an evil eye, the right hand of power, and a loose foot always running swiftly into mischief. And my soul detested them, and their soul also abhorred me. Then I said, I will not feed you: that which is dying, let die, and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off, and let the rest eat every one the flesh of its neighbor. Who are you to me then? Certainly not a father! :rotfl: :kookoo:


I'm your father Doug...what I named you..I'm sorry son

daqq
November 19th, 2015, 02:38 PM
I'm your father Doug...what I named you..I'm sorry son

I take your response as a tacit admission that your phony doctrine is so pummeled into the ground there is nothing more you can say. But there is a time for everything under the sun. Perhaps then it is time for you to begin the rebuilding process; but remember how Paul instucts you, that to build again the things which have been destroyed, you make yourself a transgressor: and this time make the Testimony of Yeshua the foundation of all your doctrine as Paul likewise did. Have a nice thread, ehem, brother. :)

:luigi:

aikido7
November 19th, 2015, 03:27 PM
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us.

“Advice” can be given by regarding it as teachings. The metaphors of “Good News,” “bearing our debt” and “paying the penalty of our sins”
are man-made theological frameworks to help us make sense of Jesus’s meaning for humankind.

There must first be the objective history: Jesus was crucified on a Roman cross and died.

Then comes the subjectivity of the people who observes the truth stated above. Facts, evidence and data are what ANY objective observers would all agree on.

What is different are the subjective opinions of what the facts and evidence reveal to believers.

FACT: Jesus died and his followers still felt his presence and power.
FAITH: Jesus walked out of the tomb and was seen as absolute truth.

FACT: Jesus was a first-century Galilean peasant who taught the Kingdom of God in parables.
FAITH: Jesus is declared Son of God, Savior of the World, Messiah.

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 06:00 PM
“Advice” can be given by regarding it as teachings. The metaphors of “Good News,” “bearing our debt” and “paying the penalty of our sins”

are man-made theological frameworks to help us make sense of Jesus’s meaning for humankind.



There must first be the objective history: Jesus was crucified on a Roman cross and died.



Then comes the subjectivity of the people who observes the truth stated above. Facts, evidence and data are what ANY objective observers would all agree on.



What is different are the subjective opinions of what the facts and evidence reveal to believers.



FACT: Jesus died and his followers still felt his presence and power.

FAITH: Jesus walked out of the tomb and was seen as absolute truth.



FACT: Jesus was a first-century Galilean peasant who taught the Kingdom of God in parables.

FAITH: Jesus is declared Son of God, Savior of the World, Messiah.


We are beings that were created with a need for unconditional all accepting love. The problem is that none of us can give this kind of love that we so desperately need because all of our love is conditional in some way. The only one who could give this love we need is the Messiah.

When we forgive, someone pays the debt. And forgiving requires suffering. If someone breaks a lamp in someone's home, the owner of that lamp can say: I forgive you, I will replace the lamp. If he does, he suffers the debt, he goes without light in that part of the home. Or he can force the other man to pay the debt, somebody will always pay the debt. If we refuse to forgive, we are forcing the other to suffer for his action, we can sometimes even take pleasure in seeing the other pay the debt but if we do this, we are not really forgiving.

This is exactly what the Messiah did for you and for me, He paid our debt. And if we read the accounts of Messiah's death it tells us that He was silent. What we don't have in this example is Jesus manning up and being a tough willed person, what Messiah showed to us is that He completely forgives us and gave us His all accepting, unconditional love in order so that we could become the beings he created us to become. Our problem is that we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. The most valuable gift I ever received was not a sinless holy life (the more I try not to sin the more sin I do) but it is the desire to forgive others that don't want forgiveness. And that is all of us. Jesus prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". We need to take that example of God's unconditional love for us and begin to learn how to give that love to others - Father forgive others for they know not what they do. What are you and I willing to place upon the altar? We need to yield ourselves upon the altar by being humble and forgiving others as Christ forgave us. If we do this, we can experience true joy and true peace and we can learn to give each other that kind of unconditional love even if its in just a small way. And as we grow we will learn to become servants of the Most High God.

We have been freely forgiven by God.

intojoy
November 19th, 2015, 06:03 PM
I take your response as a tacit admission that your phony doctrine is so pummeled into the ground there is nothing more you can say. But there is a time for everything under the sun. Perhaps then it is time for you to begin the rebuilding process; but remember how Paul instucts you, that to build again the things which have been destroyed, you make yourself a transgressor: and this time make the Testimony of Yeshua the foundation of all your doctrine as Paul likewise did. Have a nice thread, ehem, brother. :)

:luigi:


I'm sorry for your illegitimacy my son. I still love you

rstrats
November 21st, 2015, 07:26 AM
intojoy,
re: "But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin."

Actually, He wasn't all that willing because Mark 14:36 says: "...Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will."

Ben Masada
November 23rd, 2015, 06:00 PM
intojoy,
re: "But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin."

Actually, He wasn't all that willing because Mark 14:36 says: "...Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will."

Well, if "Not what I will but what you will," what was Jesus's will? Not to die on the cross. It means that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa against his will and that the Prophets were true after all when they said that no one could die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; and Ezek. 18:20)

intojoy
November 23rd, 2015, 09:45 PM
Shared the fact that jesus was a Jew with Attorney General candidate Ron Gold today. Hope he comes to know the Jewish Messiah.

So far my list of contacts I'm praying to the God of Abraham Isaac and Israel :

Drew Camenson
Ron Gold
Roy Mancovich
Linda Lingle
Richard Cutter
Ben Zaken
Scott Doctor
Ron Colbert
Dr Stein
Ben Masada

intojoy
May 21st, 2016, 06:52 PM
Benskeez

Let's come together for Ben.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367)

patrick jane
May 21st, 2016, 08:02 PM
Ben Masada - Prayers For Benny

Ben Masada
May 22nd, 2016, 02:22 PM
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. Its not advice that is the message of the bible, but it is news, good news. The news that God has intervened on our behalf, and has provided forgiveness for our sins.
We are beings that need unconditional all accepting love. Our problem is that none of us know how to give this kind of love because all of our love is conditional in some way and is self serving. But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin. Why? Because we needed love. And so that we could receive the kind of love we as beings so desperately needed - unconditional, accepting love and so that we could become the kind of people He created us to be.

It's not what we can do for God but what He has done for us. He entered "our world," He took on
"our humanity," He bore "our sins," He died "our death, "He was resurrected for "our life," He's coming again for "our glorification."
Paul in his letter to the Romans is urging us on the basis of all that he taught on, on the basis of all that has been done, he urges us to become living sacrifices:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1, 2 KJV)
"therefore" meaning all Paul taught concerning grace and mercy, we have become thru Christ the objects of God's omnipotent, eternal love.

If we have not understood all that the mercies of God has done, if we have not understood doctrinally and theologically deep enough, all that Messiah has accomplished for us, then we have become useless to him. God is calling us to live our lives as living sacrifices unto him. Our problem is, we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. When a sacrifice was laid upon the altar there was a great deal of suffering involved, the animal experienced pain and suffering. What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to place upon the altar? So that we can become a blessing to others, and become servants of the Most High God?

Mercy and forgiveness.

dodge
May 22nd, 2016, 07:24 PM
Well, if "Not what I will but what you will," what was Jesus's will? Not to die on the cross. It means that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa against his will and that the Prophets were true after all when they said that no one could die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; and Ezek. 18:20)

Ben Isiah spoke of Jesus in the following:

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

intojoy
June 2nd, 2016, 09:58 PM
“My righteousness (righteousness is a result of salvation) is near, my salvation or Yeshua (Hebrew for salvation) is gone forth, and mine arms (arms plural to be distinguished from the arm, arms meaning God's Justice) shall judge peoples; the isles shall wait for me, and on mine arm (how shall they gain salvation resulting in righteousness? By trusting in God's arm - the Messiah) shall they trust.”
**
“Who hath believed our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed?”
**Isaiah‬ *53:1‬ *ASV‬‬

“Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm (use of the pronouns, this arm is Messiah) of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Is it not thou that didst cut Rahab in pieces, that didst pierce the monster?”
**Isaiah‬ *51:9‬ *


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367)

intojoy
June 2nd, 2016, 10:43 PM
"But now" the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: (*Romans‬ *3‬:*21-22‬ ESV)


Until one knows what it is to be mute one doesn't know the greatness of being able to share, to speak, to sing and to express one's self verbally.

Until we know what it is to be blind we don't know how marvelous it is to see.

Until we know what it is to be deaf we can not know how wonderful music is.

And it isn't until we know how lost we are that we cannot know how great the grace of God really is.

But when you do like Paul you will say;

"But now I have the very righteousness of God - praise Him."

You will say

"but now I stand declared innocent before The Lord and I need not fear any judgment of any kind all because of Him and we say hallelujah."

You will say

"but now I am propitiated that is to say God's anger towards me has been satisfied and I am no longer liable, I can walk out a free human being. And now for the first time I can honor, God I can love God and can follow Him where He would send me to go."

It isn't about our understanding of all of the these truths its about hearing what the word says and saying I want what the word of God says, teach me Lord.

We may not understand how it is that The Lord has saved us or be able to explain how it is that He is The Unique Son of God, how it is that He has made all of the difference in the world but it doesn't matter because we can say I am free and I am forgiven and I know that I have life eternal because I am no longer guilty and I no longer stand unrighteous before God.







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