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WeberHome
October 30th, 2015, 04:03 PM
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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all
matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls
haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching,
and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there
few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait
gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.

†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but
indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to,
only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with
me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Oct 30, 2015 @ 05:25 pm EST,
the resident population in the United States was approximately 322,063,004
with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which translates
to an average of 7,200 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders
during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths
are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,234 of
the current daily death rate of 7,200 per 24 hours are adults. Giving the
"many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to
51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,669 American adults transferring to
perdition every day: which translates to roughly 111 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Jesus Christ didn't really specify exact
percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think:
by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones
minimum of 55 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the
netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,669 condemned souls per 322,063,004 population:
computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently
estimated global population of 7,282,560,862 people, would suggest
something like 60,352 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld
every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,515 souls every sixty
minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity
in roughly 20 hours and 36 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily
number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this
morning, then by 02:36 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year's are even worse. A study done of 26 years of
death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9%
higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths
spiking to 12.2% higher.

Traditional Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for
business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street
crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism,
tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution,
freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, gasoline prices, student
debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls,
overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain,
road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, gay marriage, Obamacare,
blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or the California drought.

If traditional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is
correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the pits of
hell in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers
passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to
Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, In'n'Out
Burger, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to
supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson
vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

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Totton Linnet
October 30th, 2015, 04:12 PM
He did not answer the question directly, he told the asker to mind what he himself was about.

The fact is you cain't help somebody onto the strait road until you yourself are on it. Like John Wesley, as soon as he found the road which leads to life he was out after the MULTITUDE who were on the broad road.

If the scripture is to be answered as you say how come John saw a multitude in heaven which no man could number?

According to your stats people can be numbered, but of the redeemed says John, no man could number them.

WeberHome
October 30th, 2015, 04:51 PM
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If the scripture is to be answered as you say how come John saw a multitude
in heaven which no man could number? According to your stats people can
be numbered, but of the redeemed says John, no man could number
them.

†. Rev 7:9 . . I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no
one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing
before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes
and were holding palm branches in their hands.

A very similar idiom is used in the book of Genesis where God instructed
Abraham to: "look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able
to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

The numbers I posted are not precise statistics; they're just rough hewn
estimates meant to impress upon viewers that not only are people going to
hell on a daily basis, but the amount of people going is a lot.

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jamie
October 30th, 2015, 05:14 PM
According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.


Is that a problem?

WeberHome
October 30th, 2015, 09:47 PM
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Is that a problem?

It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the
destination is the same.

But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs. If
traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a very
unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are
approximately:

50 thousand Scientologists
15 million Mormons
8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists

The grand total of just those categories is 4,569,460,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if traditional Christianity is the
truth; then at the least 63% of the earth's current population of 7.283 billion
people is on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know:
our friends, our loved ones, and our associates.

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Bradley D
October 30th, 2015, 10:13 PM
According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls
haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

What do you mean by "responsible souls." Those that really are or claim to be so.

jamie
October 30th, 2015, 11:15 PM
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But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:


There are two, the first resurrection and the second resurrection. During this age many are called but few are chosen.

For example, Paul said, "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. (1 Corinthians 1:26 NKJV)

Why are they not called during this age?

Paul explains that God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty...
(1 Corinthians 1:27 NKJV)

The wise and mighty and noble will be in the second resurrection and the Book of Life will then be opened to them.

WeberHome
October 31st, 2015, 06:59 AM
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What do you mean by "responsible souls." Those that really are or claim to
be so.

Of age vs underage, adults vs minors, children vs grownups.

I chose 19 as the cut-off age arbitrarily. It could be even older. For example:
20 was the age deemed old enough for Israel's males to be mustered for
war and included in a census (Num 1:2-3).

When God condemned Yhvh's people to reside an additional forty years in
the outback for refusing to enter Canaan when He wanted; the cut-off age
was again 20. (Num 14:27-35)

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daqq
October 31st, 2015, 07:21 AM
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Of age vs underage, adults vs minors, children vs grownups.

I chose 19 as the cut-off age arbitrarily. It could be even older. For example:
20 was the age deemed old enough for Israel's males to be mustered for
war and included in a census (Num 1:2-3).

When God condemned Yhvh's people to reside an additional forty years in
the outback for refusing to enter Canaan when He wanted; the cut-off age
was again 20. (Num 14:27-35)

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Very good, (imo) too bad no one seems to apply that meaning to dietous, (Matthew 2:16). :)


There are two, the first resurrection and the second resurrection. During this age many are called but few are chosen.

Very good, (imo) one out of ten lepers will be cleansed toward becoming whole.
But what if every leper has nine lepers with him in the walls of his house? :crackup:

quip
October 31st, 2015, 07:28 AM
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.

Interesting, since an all-loving god could effortlessly provide just the opposite for his creation.

Or is this simply an appeal to one's spiritual exclusivity and pride? :think:

WeberHome
October 31st, 2015, 08:57 AM
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Interesting, since an all-loving god could effortlessly provide just the
opposite for his creation. Or is this simply an appeal to one's spiritual
exclusivity and pride?

According to 1Tim 4:10 and 1John 2:2, Christ gave his life in order to pave
the way to safety for everybody; not just an elite caste. But for some odd
reason, which I have never been able to understand, Christ's Father has
restricted the benefit to believers only; and according to John 3:18,
disbelievers are shut out.

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aikido7
October 31st, 2015, 10:11 AM
...If traditional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the pits of....

But perceptions of Jesus can only be interpretations. The gospel writers had their own personal interpretations, as did Paul in the 50s before them.

And the diversity and cacophony on TOL is further proof of this fact.

We don't always realize that what we call "Christianity" existed in a wide variety of forms and expressions. It was never theologically worked out until the order of the Roman Empire's Constantine in 325 ACE. But even so, every believer becomes what the original Baptists taught:

The "priesthood" of every believer.

We are (or should be) allowed our own interpretations of the interpretations of the Bible.
Things in the world always have to be interpreted through humans, and humankind is diverse.

WeberHome
November 2nd, 2015, 09:19 AM
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†. Matt 13:42 . . there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church; and was eventually
enrolled in catechism where I completed First Holy Communion and
Confirmation. Although catechism did a good job of instilling within me the
reality of hell's eternal fires; it wasn't until I saw a painting by Gustave Dorι
depicting a scene from Dante Alighieri's Inferno that I realized the degree of
despair gripping the minds and hearts of people in hell.

People down there know it's permanent; that's what makes hell so much
worse than any other source of misery one can possibly imagine. If only they
could see a light at the end of the tunnel; but that's just it: there is no end
of the tunnel; it's like a Gerbil exercise wheel; within which the little rodents
get nowhere.

They say hope springs eternal in the human heart. Well; not down there.
No; down there hope is futile. The fires are bad enough; but it's the
permanence of hell that I would imagine hurts the most.

Netherworld Update: 3 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 181,056 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
November 2nd, 2015, 09:35 AM
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†. Matt 13:42 . . there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church; and was eventually
enrolled in catechism where I completed First Holy Communion and
Confirmation. Although catechism did a good job of instilling within me the
reality of hell's eternal fires; it wasn't until I saw a painting by Gustave Dorι
depicting a scene from Dante Alighieri's Inferno that I realized the degree of
despair gripping the minds and hearts of people in hell.

People down there know it's permanent; that's what makes hell so much
worse than any other source of misery one can possibly imagine. If only they
could see a light at the end of the tunnel; but that's just it: there is no end
of the tunnel; it's like a Gerbil exercise wheel; within which running Gerbils
get nowhere.

They say hope springs eternal in the human heart. Well; not down there.
No; down there hope is futile. The fires are bad enough; but it's the
permanence of hell that I would imagine hurts the most.

Netherworld Update: 3 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 181,056 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


I find you preposterous for thinking that you can calculate how many people go to hell. It's a sick fantasy you must be having. What gives you authority to say how many go to hell each day ? These are all souls of people you're speculating on. Go to the horse races.

WeberHome
November 2nd, 2015, 09:56 AM
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I find you preposterous for thinking that you can calculate how many people
go to hell. It's a sick fantasy you must be having. What gives you authority
to say how many go to hell each day ? These are all souls of people you're
speculating on. Go to the horse races.

People are usually comfortable talking about hell just so long as it remains
an abstract concept in a bull session. But when someone comes along and
puts a face on hell; there's always a percentage that tends to get agitated.

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Zeke
November 2nd, 2015, 10:00 AM
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It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the
destination is the same.

But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs. If
traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a very
unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are
approximately:

50 thousand Scientologists
15 million Mormons
8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists

The grand total of just those categories is 4,569,460,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if traditional Christianity is the
truth; then at the least 63% of the earth's current population of 7.283 billion
people is on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know:
our friends, our loved ones, and our associates.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

All artificial personalities, that are temporal blind actors in this world of legal fiction. 2Cor 3:6, The God of the letter is the false one that breeds fear and confusion along with big dose of denial, perverting the inward journey into a historical sitcom, which is the real hell being spoke of by the dead letter, where the dead bury there dead.

Caino
November 2nd, 2015, 10:28 AM
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According to 1Tim 4:10 and 1John 2:2, Christ gave his life in order to pave
the way to safety for everybody; not just an elite caste. But for some odd
reason, which I have never been able to understand, Christ's Father has
restricted the benefit to believers only; and according to John 3:18,
disbelievers are shut out.

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The Bible was written by men, that is why it is contradictory. Fortunately, in the real world so called "traditional Christianity" is a mere shadow of the original gospel taught by Jesus.


One day the world will once again hear the original gospel of a mature, Loving heavenly father and this nonsense about a fiery hell and eternal torture will be called out for the childishness that it is.

heir
November 2nd, 2015, 11:31 AM
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People are usually comfortable talking about hell just so long as it remains
an abstract concept in a bull session. But when someone comes along and
puts a face on hell; there's always a percentage that tends to get agitated.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Who's to say you won't go to hell? What is the gospel of your salvation?

genuineoriginal
November 2nd, 2015, 11:49 AM
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It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the
destination is the same.
Where is this commonly believed and who are the people that commonly believe it?
It is likely these people that believe it are the very people that are on the wide way that lead to hell.


But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs.
No, according to traditional Christianity, there are only two ways to go, and the way most people choose to go leads straight to hell.
There are no loops, cul-de-sacs, nor dead ends that will keep them from reaching the final destination.


If
traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a very
unpleasant future.
Yes, that is true.


if traditional Christianity is the
truth; then at the least 63% of the earth's current population of 7.283 billion
people is on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know:
our friends, our loved ones, and our associates.
Yes.

So, what do you plan on doing about it?

WeberHome
November 5th, 2015, 07:44 AM
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I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in
store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people
can expect in the next life, but also hell's impact upon the human mind.

People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ,
but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I
won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by
some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000
years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no
clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been
down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the
Earth for just 71, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to
me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know;
when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the
bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence.
People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like
Lindsay Lohan expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary
tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as
perpetual residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain
and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no
hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire.
The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of
mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're
all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring
tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls
at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens,
pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with
grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no
blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and
want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard
feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation,
and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason
to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's
hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable,
altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? Can people in hell really be
expected to turn the other cheek? Don't count on it. Hell is a penal colony.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and
sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth.
Conditions are really bad, and everyone is sad, blue, and lonely. After a few
years of the conditions I'm describing, I should think most folks break, and
go mad from the stress.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available.
Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no
way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a
walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade
of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird
chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar,
enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves
gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl,
no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more
lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more
golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no
Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram,no YouTube, no MySpace, no
internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks,
no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no
picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no
jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely
nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions
of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any
kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens
of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack
of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose
you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to
everything I guess; even to that place.

Netherworld Update: 6 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 362,112 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

chrysostom
November 5th, 2015, 07:51 AM
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People are usually comfortable talking about hell just so long as it remains
an abstract concept in a bull session. But when someone comes along and
puts a face on hell; there's always a percentage that tends to get agitated.

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you think many will respond positively to such a negative presentation?

heir
November 5th, 2015, 07:52 AM
Netherworld Update: 6 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 362,112 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Is that why you are here? To figure a head count? Where's your good news?

genuineoriginal
November 5th, 2015, 08:19 AM
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ,
but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I
won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by
some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000
years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no
clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been
down in the netherworld all this time.
If you think the Bible is wrong about Adam and Eve being created 6000 years ago, then you have no basis for belief in perdition and the netherworld.

patrick jane
November 5th, 2015, 08:27 AM
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People are usually comfortable talking about hell just so long as it remains
an abstract concept in a bull session. But when someone comes along and
puts a face on hell; there's always a percentage that tends to get agitated.

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are these folks going to hell ?


20668

20669

20670

WeberHome
November 5th, 2015, 08:38 AM
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Is that why you are here? To figure a head count?

A head count is germane to a thread whose topic is hell's daily arrivals.


Where's your good news?

There's no fleas and allergies in hell due to the absence of pets and vegetation.

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patrick jane
November 5th, 2015, 09:29 AM
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A head count is germane to a thread whose topic is hell's daily arrivals.



There's no fleas and allergies in hell due to the absence of pets and vegetation.

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With that logic, couldn't we assume that folks get used to hell just like we accept and adjust to whatever happens in our lives on earth. Wouldn't they get used to the heat and the same routine for eternity. After all, there's no hope of getting out.

patrick jane
November 5th, 2015, 09:39 AM
Netherworld Update: 6 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 362,112 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

How many sectors are there ? Are there unfiery parts ?

jamie
November 5th, 2015, 10:26 AM
With that logic, couldn't we assume that folks get used to hell just like we accept and adjust to whatever happens in our lives on earth. Wouldn't they get used to the heat and the same routine for eternity. After all, there's no hope of getting out.


Spiritual bodies are not subject to physical elements such as heat or fire.

WeberHome
November 5th, 2015, 11:50 AM
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couldn't we assume that folks get used to hell just like we accept and adjust
to whatever happens in our lives on earth. Wouldn't they get used to the
heat and the same routine for eternity.

That's an interesting thought.


How many sectors are there? Are there unfiery parts?

A common Greek word for hell in the New Testament is haides (hah'-dace)
a.k.a. hades. It's a catch-all word for the unseen world where at one time all
the dead went: the good dead and the bad dead.

Christ was in a section of haides (Acts 2:25-31) which he labeled paradise
(Luke 23:42). The rich man's section is not a paradise. (Luke 16:19-31)

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Mocking You
November 5th, 2015, 11:59 AM
I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also hell's impact upon the human mind.


Jesus addressed this in Luke 16 in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. People won't repent even if someone were to come from Hell and preach to them about the torments.

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

WeberHome
November 5th, 2015, 12:09 PM
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Spiritual bodies are not subject to physical elements such as heat or
fire.

The properties of physical elements are not absolute. They are easily
manipulated by the one who designed them.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but
left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback
while tending his father-in-law's sheep.

Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire left totally unscathed
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the guards that threw
them in the furnace.

According to Matt 25:41 and Rev 20:10, spirits can be made to suffer in fire.

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jamie
November 5th, 2015, 01:04 PM
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For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while tending his father-in-law's sheep.


Sodom and Gomorrah were in Moab not the Sinai.

WeberHome
November 5th, 2015, 03:28 PM
Sodom and Gomorrah were in Moab not the Sinai.

The human mind is produced by a fragile 3-pound lump of flabby organic
tissue; and not even all three of those pounds are dedicated to cognitive
purposes. In addition, 60% of that organic lump's mass is fat. So it's to be
expected that the human mind would play tricks on its host now and again.

For example: here is a portion of the original text of one of the paragraphs
in post #31

"fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left unscathed
a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while tending his
father-in-law's sheep."

Apparently your fragile 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue fooled you into
thinking the text says this:

"the fire that totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah left
unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while
tending his father-in-law's sheep."

According to Gal 3:17, Moses and Abraham lived something like 400 years
distant from each other; so of course the fire that demolished Sodom would
not be the same one that blazed in the bush.

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Caino
November 5th, 2015, 07:57 PM
What a sick old man! By their fruits yee will know them.

ttruscott
November 6th, 2015, 01:02 PM
He did not answer the question directly, he told the asker to mind what he himself was about.

The fact is you cain't help somebody onto the strait road until you yourself are on it. Like John Wesley, as soon as he found the road which leads to life he was out after the MULTITUDE who were on the broad road.

If the scripture is to be answered as you say how come John saw a multitude in heaven which no man could number?

According to your stats people can be numbered, but of the redeemed says John, no man could number them.

It is obvious to me that the vast, vast, multitude of those created in HIS image never sinned by their free will choice to be holy and all men are born sinners really means all those who self created themselves as sinners are born as human with the vast bulk of such self created sinners being compromised of the reprobate with the sinful elect comprising a comparative few of the full compliment of sinners.

Just to show ratios, not real numbers:

Heavenly people working as angels - 90%
Sinners on earth 10% with Reprobate =9.5% and sinful elect =.5% but from our pov seeing of only seeing sinners on earth, it looks much like the op suggests, though its conclusions are wrong.

And also, though we know there can be no spiritual growth from reincarnation, there is also no Christian necessity to deny that the reprobate might reincarnate (why insist they must live lives exactly the same as the good seed, the sinful elect?) and if they return and die over and over then the numbers of the OP are not any indication at all of GOD creating people for the meat grinder, but proof that a trust in re-incarnation bringing true enlightenment (of Christ our only saviour) is a Satanic delusion.

Just another expression of true stats being mis-interpreted to Satan's use due to a lack of spiritual understanding.

WeberHome
November 8th, 2015, 11:59 AM
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Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.

The Divine Comedy
by Dante Alighieri
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

Dante's Divine Comedy is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as
opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil
pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will
never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to
the netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a
situation will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of
Dante's concept of the netherworld, despair is a way of life.

Netherworld Update: 9 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 543,168 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
November 8th, 2015, 12:01 PM
Netherworld Update: 9 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 543,168 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Not bad. I can live with those numbers.

patrick jane
November 8th, 2015, 12:06 PM
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You should also calculate how many go to heaven, and mark the disparity.

WeberHome
November 8th, 2015, 07:30 PM
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You should also calculate how many go to heaven, and mark the
disparity.

I wouldn't know where to begin because Christ testified that nobody can
enter the kingdom of God lest they first undergo the spirit birth about which
he spoke at John 3:3-8. Well; that includes infants, toddlers, and
preschoolers. They too have to undergo the spirit birth because Christ
testified that the spirit birth is a must.

Well; seeing as how infants, toddlers, and preschoolers are too immature to
understand the gospel and the consequences for spurning it; then it seems
logical to me that they would be warehoused somewhere in the afterlife till
they grow up and get old enough to be evangelized. How many of those
make the cut is impossible to estimate.

It's assumed by just about everybody that innocent little kids go straight to
heaven. Well; maybe they do; I don't know. But innocent little kids stay
neither little nor innocent. They eventually grow up just like everybody else.

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heir
November 8th, 2015, 11:12 PM
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There's no fleas and allergies in hell due to the absence of pets and vegetation.

Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).

patrick jane
November 8th, 2015, 11:20 PM
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I wouldn't know where to begin because Christ testified that nobody can
enter the kingdom of God lest they first undergo the spirit birth about which
he spoke at John 3:3-8. Well; that includes infants, toddlers, and
preschoolers. They too have to undergo the spirit birth because Christ
testified that the spirit birth is a must.

Well; seeing as how infants, toddlers, and preschoolers are too immature to
understand the gospel and the consequences for spurning it; then it seems
logical to me that they would be warehoused somewhere in the afterlife till
they grow up and get old enough to be evangelized. How many of those
make the cut is impossible to estimate.

It's assumed by just about everybody that innocent little kids go straight to
heaven. Well; maybe they do; I don't know. But innocent little kids stay
neither little nor innocent. They eventually grow up just like everybody else.

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You have a skewed and warped (sick) view of things. I'm so glad you're completely wrong about everything.

WeberHome
November 9th, 2015, 12:23 PM
Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21
KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).

Threads like those are a dime a dozen. Borrrrrrreeeeeng!

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WeberHome
November 11th, 2015, 12:40 PM
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†. Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower
of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I
tell you again that unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

The koinι Greek word for "tower" in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos)
which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure
like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the
face of a castle's curtain wall-- consisting of crenellations, merlons, and
machicolations --providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and
defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, purgos were
simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls
aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

In the days prior to steel reinforcing bar and structural steel beams, purgos
(which were often constructed of either stones or bricks or wood) weren't all
that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching themselves from the
curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in pieces raining down on
whoever happened to be standing below. The tower depicted in Luke was
possibly a decorative part of an architectural enclosure surrounding the pool
of Siloam. (cf. John 9:7)

The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the
hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong
time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a
camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after
lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing
in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to snap off
and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as
they walk under it.

One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would
have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature
conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting
for that one specific person to walk under it.

In a similar incident Friday, Feb 19, 2010 --a centuries-old Mosque minaret
in Meknes Morocco collapsed and fell into a crowd of worshippers during
prayer time, killing 41.

Saturday, June 27, 2010, a 6-month-old baby girl was killed and her mother
seriously injured when the pair were struck by a falling tree branch in New
York City's Central Park Zoo. The girl's father was taking their picture near
the sea lion exhibit when a branch above them suddenly snapped off and
fell.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning
home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California
with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand
Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road,
through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor
injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very
next day.

Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one
single minute of their marriage-- never had a baby, never joined the PTA,
never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little
league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at
Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand
castles --no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were
shattered in an instant by a lame-brained bovine; and Ramiro wasn't even
20 years old yet.

March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan,
was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the
Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a
wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water-- for who knows what
reason --and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck
of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her,
was not injured.

On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station
wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island
house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's
Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no
incident.

As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just
before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of
steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's
windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually
get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752
killed, and 127,294 listed as missing, in more than eleven countries by the
tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be
their last day on earth.

The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade
Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon,
didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No,
people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments,
aspirations, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car
accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or
stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, a 7.0 earthquake struck Port au Prince Haiti right out
of the blue subsequently causing the loss of more than 200,000 lives. A
similar act of nature on March 11, 2011, left 25,000 dead and/or missing in
Japan.

Okeechobee woman Dawn Johnston, 38, was killed Wednesday June 30,
2010 after part of a portable toilet crashed through her car's windshield.
Dawn was driving south on SR 15 shortly after 11 a.m. when two portable
toilets fell from the trailer of a pickup truck traveling north,. The portable
toilets shattered when they hit the road, and a piece of one of them crashed
through the woman's windshield, striking her. Johnston's car then veered off
the road and collided with a tree.

A rain-saturated hillside above the Stillaguamish River on the outskirts of the
rural town of Oso in the State of Washington gave way March 22, 2014
leaving behind a current death toll of 41 souls. The landslide happened to
suddenly and so rapidly that nobody saw it coming and/or had the slightest
chance of getting out of the way. Listed among the dead and missing was a
four-month old infant.

Freak incidents like those listed above can happen to anybody in the form of
a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a
piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath
tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue
surprises. I don't think Christ was saying that repentance will protect people
from dying in an unexpected incident, but rather, that if they don't start
thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; then they risk
being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to
think; and they'll find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot
sooner than they ever expected.

I was taught in catechism that repentance always means sorrow and regret
for one's sins; but I don't think that's what Christ was getting at.

The koinι Greek word for "repent" in Christ's statement is metanoeo (met
an-o-eh'-o) which means: to think differently; viz: to reconsider-- in other
words: to change one's mind and/or change one's direction.

I was also taught in catechism that repentance and confession of one's sins
are joined at the hip; so to speak. But confession of sins is not the emphasis
in Luke 13:4-5; metanoeo is the emphasis.

Christ preceded the statement recorded in Luke 13:4-5 with another like it.

†. Luke 13:1-3 . .There were present at that season some who told Him
about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And
Jesus answered and said to them: Do you suppose that these Galileans were
worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I
tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

The record doesn't explain why Pilate executed those men in particular; nor
even where the executions took place. But just for brevity's sake, I'll assume
for now that those particular men were known insurrectionists, and the
executions took place on the grounds of the Temple compound in Jerusalem
while the men were there to worship. In other words: the men were pounced
upon in a place they would never suspect; and Pilate's soldiers sprung on
the Galileans so suddenly and so efficiently that the men had no chance to
either escape or to defend themselves.

It's at a time like that when your religion of choice had better be the right
one because you'll have neither time nor opportunity to reconsider and
switch to another.

†. Ecc 9:10-12 . . For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot
even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are
trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it
comes upon them without warning.

Netherworld Update: 12 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 724,224 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
November 14th, 2015, 12:00 PM
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"Right Back Atcha"

I once heard President Obama reply to criticism with almost those exact
same words; viz: he didn't deny the truth of the criticism, but instead
employed the age-old tactic of accusing his critic of the very same things;
which, I guess in his mind; somehow mitigated his own culpability; but the
honorable response would have been for him to man-up and admit his
conduct was unbecoming rather than stoop to recriminations.

It's very common for people to respond to criticism the same way Mr.
Obama did. It's all the same as saying: Who are you to talk? Well;
regardless of who someone is to talk, if the criticism is true; then it stands;
viz: recriminations are futile. All they do is pull someone down with you so
you don't go down alone.

I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at
the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see
people in white who they know to be guilty of the very same things for which
they are being sentenced to the reservoir of flaming sulfur.

So; how might I describe human nature? I think I could accurately describe
it as both judgmental and defensive.

†. Rom 2:15 . .Their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one
another.

Netherworld Update: 15 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 905,280 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

truthjourney
November 14th, 2015, 12:32 PM
Heir: Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).

Threads like those are a dime a dozen. Borrrrrrreeeeeng!

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How could you possibly view what Heir said as boring? It is good news and speaks about the goodness of God. She asked you a very good question.
You appear to be fixated on death and destruction. You must think it's more interesting and exciting to focus on the idea of cascading of souls into the pit of hell with endless torture and suffering forever. I find that not only boring but also repulsive.

jamie
November 14th, 2015, 03:22 PM
I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see people in white who they know to be guilty of the very same things for which they are being sentenced to the reservoir of flaming sulfur.


This is not biblical.

WeberHome
November 17th, 2015, 07:48 AM
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†. Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to
enter the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown
into hell; where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

Jesus Christ's caution and warning about the fire and worms didn't reveal
anything new. He simply reiterated information that had already been
released by an Old Testament prophet roughly 700 years before Christ was
born.

†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter loathing.

The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive in eternal flame as
perpetual nourishment for those worms?

Natural laws are not absolutes. They are created laws; thus subject to
revision, modification, manipulation, and even elimination by the cosmos'
architect.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but
left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback
while tending his father-in-law's sheep. Also compare Dan 3:8-27 where a
blistering hot fire left totally unscathed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego
while slaying the guards that threw them in the furnace.

FYI: A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable.
The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176°
Fahrenheit: hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer.

Netherworld Update: 18 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,086,336 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
November 20th, 2015, 08:36 AM
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†. Ecc 1:2-4 . . Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly
meaningless! Everything is meaningless. What does a man gain from all his
labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

The earth is dumber than a spatula; yet easily outlives its human potentate
whose IQ is infinitely greater. Take for example the great granite
monuments in Yosemite Valley. Tourists to the valley come, and tourists to
the valley go; and one day old age catches up with those tourists and
they're gone; yet Yosemite's great stones abide decade after decade;
century after century.

Most children born this day will be dead in 100 years; and those stones
won't even notice. Though a child born today may be intelligent enough to
eventually understand orbital mechanics and string theory; the stones--
stupid, mute, and uneducated --will easily outlast it.

†. Ecc 2:15-16 . . I thought in my heart: The fate of the fool will overtake
me also. What then do I gain by being intelligent? I said in my heart: This is
meaningless For the intelligent man, like the fool, will not be long
remembered-- in days to come both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the
intelligent man too must die.

Netherworld Update: 21 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,267,392 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
November 23rd, 2015, 10:55 AM
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Judas goats are trained for use in slaughterhouses and herd control. In
stockyards, they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other
animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the
biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.

The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats
targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted
in red and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral
goats, allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them.
The red paint marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know
which one not to shoot.

You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children
following you there: and they trusted you.

Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess
it sure is pertinent.

A boozing farmer went out to his barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to
sneak a pull from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard
something behind him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming
towards him. In amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to
find his way out to the barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I
walked in your footsteps.

Can you just imagine the anguish that parents feel in the netherworld
knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in a religion that led
them down the road to hell and all the while sincerely believing themselves
doing the right thing? In other words: they actually Judas-goated their
children to follow mom and dad down there. How do parents in hell cope
with something like that on their conscience? For some families, the only
thing they have to look forward to in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and
despair; for example:

†. Luke 16:27-29 . . Then he said: I beg you therefore, father [Abraham]
that you would send [Lazarus] to my father's house, for I have five brothers,
that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

That poor man had no way to contact his surviving kin and let them know
his whereabouts; but his biggest fear was that he knew them all well enough
to know that all five were coming down where he was-- there was nothing
he could do to prevent it.

Netherworld Update: 24 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,448,448 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
November 27th, 2015, 01:45 PM
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At some time during Jonah's three-day nautical adventure, he went to a
place described as the roots of the mountains (Jonah 2:6). Well; the roots of
the mountains aren't situated in the tummy of a fish; they're embedded in
the earth. Jesus Christ said the same thing about his experience.

†. Mtt 12:40 . . For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days
and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three
days and three nights.

When you think about it, Christ's corpse was never in the heart of the earth.
It wasn't even in the earth's soil. It was on the surface of the earth in a rock
tomb. So in order for Christ to be on the surface of the earth and in its heart
at the same time, he and his body had to go their separate ways.

Same with Jonah. In order for Jonah to be in a fish's tummy and down at the
roots of the mountains at the same time, he and his body had to go their
separate ways; which of course is not difficult for traditional Christians
seeing as how they believe it's possible for a human to continue existing
beyond the demise of their body.

Netherworld Update: 28 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,689,856 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
November 27th, 2015, 01:50 PM
:devil:

Netherworld Update: 28 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,689,856 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

That's all ? I can live with those numbers. :devil:

jamie
November 27th, 2015, 03:27 PM
...which of course is not difficult for traditional Christians seeing as how they believe it's possible for a human to continue existing beyond the demise of their body.


Yeah, someone said, "You shall not surely die."

The statement was believed then and its believed now by many.

WeberHome
November 28th, 2015, 09:57 AM
-

Yeah, someone said, "You shall not surely die." The statement was believed
then and its believed now by many.

†. Gen 2:15-17 . .The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden
of Eden, to till it and tend it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.

That passage has always been an embarrassment for Bible thumpers
because Adam didn't drop dead the instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In
point of fact, he continued to live outside the garden of Eden for another 800
years after the birth of his son Seth. (Gen 5:4)

So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent discrepancy?

Well; first off let me point out that in order for the threat to resonate in
Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as Adam understood death in
his day, not as the Bible thumpers understand death in their day. In other
words; Adam didn't expect to die spiritually. No, he expected to die
normally; viz: physically; like as in pass away.

How can I be so sure that God meant normal death instead of spiritual
death? Because according to Gen 3:19 that's how it worked out; and to
make sure Adam stayed normally dead, God blocked his access to the tree
of life. (Gen 3:22-24)

Anyway; the trick is: Adam wasn't told he would die the instant he tasted
the fruit. God's exact words were "in the day"

Well; according to Gen 2:4, the Hebrew word for "day" is a bit ambiguous. It
can easily indicate a period of time much, much longer than 24 hours' viz:
the "day" of Adam's death began the moment he ate the fruit.

That was a milestone in human history. Up till Adam tasted the fruit, the
only days on record were the six of creation, and the one when God ceased
creating. Adam inaugurated a new day by tasting the fruit-- the day of
death.

"Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this
way death came to all men" (Rom 5:12)

Well; like Jack Palance's character Curly in the movie City Slickers said: "The
day ain't over yet"

"It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of gaiety, for
death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this seriously." (Ecc
7:2)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
November 28th, 2015, 02:06 PM
Adam inaugurated a new day by tasting the fruit-- the day of death.

Adam inaugurated a new day by tasting the fruit-- a day of salvation.

Let's say for the sake of discussion that Adam was human. Humans are prone to making mistakes. Adam made a mistake.

The sacrificial Lamb of the Most High was figuratively slain before Adam was created. We all make mistakes but God has it covered.

patrick jane
November 28th, 2015, 02:11 PM
Adam inaugurated a new day by tasting the fruit-- a day of salvation.

Let's say for the sake of discussion that Adam was human. Humans are prone to making mistakes. Adam made a mistake.

The sacrificial Lamb of the Most High was figuratively slain before Adam was created. We all make mistakes but God has it covered.

Amen. :rapture:

way 2 go
November 28th, 2015, 06:06 PM
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.


Interesting, since an all-loving god could effortlessly provide just the opposite for his creation.

Or is this simply an appeal to one's spiritual exclusivity and pride? :think:
every time you love someone they love you back

WeberHome
November 30th, 2015, 11:24 AM
-
†. Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said to him: Son, remember

I should think that one of the negative aspects of hell is memory. How
people down there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind
with their corpse, I don't know; but they do, just as the rich man is able to
experience thirst sans a flesh and blood tongue.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, the people in hell not only
have to cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I
should think it is remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that
makes their situation only worse in the heat. They say it is better to have
loved and lost, rather than not to have loved at all. I disagree. I suspect it is
far better to not know what you're missing. Ignorance really would be bliss
in the once-rich man's situation.

Just think: that poor man is still in anguish down there to this very day;
something like 1,955 years since Luke penned his gospel. In the grand
scheme of things, that man is only just getting started on eternity because
1,955 years is little more than a warm-up for the main event. To put that in
perspective: 60 AD was something like 1,432 years before Columbus
discovered America.

Netherworld Update: 31 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,871,222 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
November 30th, 2015, 11:56 AM
Netherworld Update: 31 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,871,222 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


More than that have been saved since 10-30-15, and why don't you tabulate how many have died on gone to heaven since 10-30 ?

WeberHome
December 3rd, 2015, 10:24 AM
-
†. Gen 6:5 . .And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually.

It's freaky to contemplate that the Bible's God has a way to eavesdrop on
one's mental processes on a level with which people are mostly unfamiliar.

†. Matt 15:18-19 . . For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts

So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your
heart works that defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of
hoodwinking his own consciousness.

†. Jer 17:9 . . The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked.
Who really knows how bad it is?

There is a part of us that psychology labels the subconscious; which in
Freud's opinion is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or
desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the
mechanism of psychological repression. However, the contents do not
necessarily have to be solely negative. In the psychoanalytic view, the
subconscious is a force that can only be recognized by its effects-- in other
words: your mind's thoughts can be construed not as replicas of your hearts
thoughts; but rather, as symptoms of your heart's thoughts.

The key word in the above is: repression. God is able to de-suppress those
repressed contents and submit them as evidence in the prosecution's case
against the accused. That means He will be confronting people with things
that they never before really knew about themselves; and that's why I
sometimes say only a fool would take their chances with the Bible's God.
They have no clue the extent of the psychological tsunami they're walking
into.

Netherworld Update: 34 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,051,968 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 3rd, 2015, 10:33 AM
Netherworld Update: 34 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,051,968 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


This is an urban legend.

Bluecheese
December 3rd, 2015, 11:04 AM
The Biblical heaven doesn't sound much fun either!

patrick jane
December 3rd, 2015, 11:17 AM
The Biblical heaven doesn't sound much fun either!

You won't have to worry about it :)

Bluecheese
December 3rd, 2015, 11:19 AM
You won't have to worry about it :)

No I won't because I am of the opinion that when I die I will cease to be like everyone else. There is not the slightest shred of evidence any deity or afterlife exists.

patrick jane
December 3rd, 2015, 11:21 AM
every time you love someone they love you back

Hit me and I'll hit you back. I love you Way2Go !!! :)

jamie
December 3rd, 2015, 01:35 PM
No I won't because I am of the opinion that when I die I will cease to be like everyone else. There is not the slightest shred of evidence any deity or afterlife exists.


So let's keep dancing.

LCRZZC-DH7M

WeberHome
December 6th, 2015, 10:24 AM
-
Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable. Now; if he had told
one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good
reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are
like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never
fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that
there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among
normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something
untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's
buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

Netherworld Update: 37 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,233,024 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 6th, 2015, 11:01 AM
I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable.


The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable about Israel and Gentiles. In this story Israel is the rich man and Lazarus symbolizes the Gentiles.

In the story Abraham told the rich man that his five brothers had Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. (Luke 16:29 NKJV)

Abraham's "bosom" is an oblique reference to God's kingdom.


And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29 NKJV)

PureX
December 6th, 2015, 11:04 AM
-
According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all
matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls
haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching,
and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there
few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait
gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.

†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.Yes, but everyone thinks they're the "chosen few", so the point of these quotes is pretty much always lost in the face of human ego. I bet even you think you're one of the "chosen few", don't you?

WeberHome
December 9th, 2015, 07:30 PM
-
†. Luke 9:35 . . A voice came from the cloud, saying: This is my son, whom
I have chosen; listen to him.

The chosen son referred to in that verse isn't Solomon; it's Jesus Christ. So
then, it was the voice's command that the three apostles who accompanied
the son listen to him rather than listen to anybody else.

Now, that's very important because Jesus Christ testified that people
continue to exist after they die; while Solomon believed just the opposite.

Solomon spoke of death; but there's no textual evidence in the book of
Ecclesiastes indicating that he had ever seen beyond death for himself to
know what he was talking about. In contrast, there is an abundance of
textual evidence indicating that Jesus Christ not only spoke of death, but he
had seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. (e.g.
John 3:13, John 3:31-32, John 6:33, John 6:38, and 1John 1:1-3) So in my
estimation, Christ's eye-witness reports carry far more weight than
Solomon's opinions.

When people insist that we listen to Solomon instead of listening to Jesus
Christ, they are insinuating that the voice in the cloud steered the apostles
in the wrong direction. That's a terrible thing to insinuate seeing as how the
speaker was God.

†. 2Pet 1:17-18 . . For he received honor and glory from God the Father
when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying: This is my Son,
whom I love; with him I am well pleased. We ourselves heard this voice that
came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

Can you just imagine how insulted Jesus Christ's Father must feel when
people choose Solomon over His son; especially when it's a matter of record
that God wasn't well pleased with Solomon?

You know, if I was going to interpret somebody's teachings about the
afterlife as figurative language; it wouldn't be Jesus Christ's teachings; no, it
would be somebody's else's in order to avoid insulting Christ's Father. Better
to err on the safe side.

Netherworld Update: 40 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,414,080 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
December 12th, 2015, 10:30 AM
-
OBJECTION: The Christian hell doesn't make sense that a loving God would
torment people in a fiery prison forever and ever.

RESPONSE: The objector's "sense" is produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby
organic tissue that can alter your personality with little more than an
aneurism or a blow to the head. Just how sensible can a flabby organic
sense really be compared to the sense of a divine being with enough
intelligence to invent, design, and manufacture a fully functioning cosmos
with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy? Flabby organic senses aren't
even a dunce in comparison: they're sub dunces; if even that.

Netherworld Update: 43 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,595,136 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 12th, 2015, 10:36 AM
Netherworld Update: 43 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,595,136 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Hades refers to the grave, no fire there.

Timotheos
December 13th, 2015, 06:08 AM
-
OBJECTION: The Christian hell doesn't make sense that a loving God would
torment people in a fiery prison forever and ever.

RESPONSE: The objector's "sense" is produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby
organic tissue that can alter your personality with little more than an
aneurism or a blow to the head. Just how sensible can a flabby organic
sense really be compared to the sense of a divine being with enough
intelligence to invent, design, and manufacture a fully functioning cosmos
with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy? Flabby organic senses aren't
even a dunce in comparison: they're sub dunces; if even that.

Netherworld Update: 43 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,595,136 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The "reasoning" that concludes that the Bible says that God will torture people alive in hell forever comes from a three pound lump of flabby unused organic tissue.

Truster
December 13th, 2015, 06:27 AM
-


†. Rev 7:9 . . I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no
one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing
before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes
and were holding palm branches in their hands.

A very similar idiom is used in the book of Genesis where God instructed
Abraham to: "look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able
to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

The numbers I posted are not precise statistics; they're just rough hewn
estimates meant to impress upon viewers that not only are people going to
hell on a daily basis, but the amount of people going is a lot.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hence the two ways. The wide gate and broad way that leads to destruction many go in thereat.
The strait gate and the narrow way that leads to life and few there be that find it.

Caino
December 13th, 2015, 05:08 PM
The "reasoning" that concludes that the Bible says that God will torture people alive in hell forever comes from a three pound lump of flabby unused organic tissue.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: good one!

If an infinite God created finite man and then let him be tricked by a Satan creature.....then torture the man for an eternity, that's not a good God no matter how much you want to polish that argument/turd.

WeberHome
December 15th, 2015, 07:39 AM
-

If an infinite God created finite man and then let him be tricked by a Satan
creature.....then torture the man for an eternity, that's not a good God no
matter how much you want to polish that argument/turd.

Whether the Bible's God is good or bad is irrelevant because if He's actually
in charge, then He's going to win regardless. For example: it's not only
futile, but also dangerous for North Koreans to criticize Kim Jong-un; viz:
good or bad, Kim has the upper hand and if he gets wind of someone's
discontent with his management practices, they, and oftentimes their entire
family, usually end up in one of North Korea's numerous political prisons.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 15th, 2015, 08:12 AM
Netherworld Update: 46 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,776,192 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Hades? What does hades mean in the Greek?

WeberHome
December 15th, 2015, 08:13 AM
-
Human life is fragile; so much so that even something as thin as the air can
snuff it out.

†. Isa 40:6-7 . . All flesh is grass, and all its grace is like the blossom of the
field. The grass shall dry out, the blossom shall wilt, for a wind from the Lord
has blown upon it; behold the people is grass.

According to a report released on March 25, 2014 by the World Health
Organization; air pollution kills, on average, seven million people per
annum; and is linked to one in eight deaths (12.5%) world-wide. Think of it.
That percentage represents 902,997,326 deaths linked to air pollution per
annum out of a currently estimated 7.3 billion people.

An estimated 4.3 million people died in 2012 as a result of indoor air
pollution, mostly from cooking inside with coal or wood stoves in developing
countries, according to a report by the public health agency of the United
Nations.

Air pollution is so lethal because it exacerbates other conditions like cardio
vascular diseases, cancer, and respiratory illnesses. Were people with those
conditions permitted to breathe clean air free of hazardous chemicals and
toxic particulates, they would live longer.

Netherworld Update: 46 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,776,192 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

JosephR
December 15th, 2015, 08:14 AM
beware a man who loves and relishes in others deaths.. for he is deth and its instrument.... keep counting friend....the bell tolls for thee

WeberHome
December 15th, 2015, 08:38 AM
-

Hades? What does hades mean in the Greek?

If you honestly do not know what hades is; then I am forced to conclude
that your comment in post #71 is an uneducated guess.


=====================

JosephR
December 15th, 2015, 08:39 AM
-


If you honestly do not know what hades is; then I am forced to conclude
that your comment in post #71 is an uneducated guess.


=====================

she is your teacher.. it would do you well to watch and learn..

jamie
December 15th, 2015, 10:43 AM
-
If you honestly do not know what hades is; then I am forced to conclude that your comment in post #71 is an uneducated guess.

Hades means grave and both death and the grave will be cast into the fire that destroys the earth.


The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Revelation 20:13-14 NKJV)

Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth and Jesus' bride symbolized by a new Jerusalem will come down from God.

You are consigning people to the second death before they are judged by the works they do at that time.

Don't do that.

PureX
December 15th, 2015, 11:40 AM
beware a man who loves and relishes in others deaths.. for he is deth and its instrument.... keep counting friend....the bell tolls for theeThe same could be said of people who relish and revel in the sinfulness of others, just to inflate their own imagined self-righteousness. As in doing so they have come to embody the very essence of sin.

(I wasn't aiming this comment at you, just using your comment to expand on the theme.)

WeberHome
December 16th, 2015, 10:32 AM
-
I have never seen the afterlife for myself. So then; I cannot speak about it
as somebody who knows what they're talking about.

But God has seen the afterlife for Himself; so when God speaks about it, He
knows what He's talking about.

It's really important to be aware that Christ was micro-managed; viz: Christ
didn't speak for himself; he spoke for God.

†. John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So then, when people disbelieve what Christ says about the afterlife, they
are actually disbelieving God; and by doing so they insinuate that God is a
dishonest person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.

Most Christians know all that without having to be reminded. So instead of
outright disbelieving what Christ says about the afterlife-- insinuating that
neither he nor his Father know what they're talking about --a number of
Christians spin what he says; viz: they tone it down in order to make it
compatible with human sensibilities.

But human sensibilities are unreliable; especially seeing as how the source
of human sensibilities was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The
problem with a sense of good and evil obtained from the tree is that it's a
natural sense rather than an instructed sense.

For example: right off the bat the first couple concealed their pelvic areas.
They did that not because God expressed disapproval of full frontal nudity,
but because their intuitive sense of good and evil told them that all nudity
was wrong; even partial nudity. In other words: their sense of propriety
wasn't an instructed sense; it was a natural sense.

Well; as a general rule, God is not offended by nudity; not even the full
frontal variety; and He has yet to issue a "thou shalt not" commandment
forbidding it. (Note that I said "general rule")

In point of fact, God created Adam totally bare naked and left him that way;
viz: if God were truly offended by bare nakedness, he would have clothed
Adam right from the outset.

So when people tone down Christ's afterlife teachings in order to make them
compatible with human sensibilities; they exhibit their intimate connection to
the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You see, though a number of
Bible students find the thought of people suffering in a fiery hell repulsive and
unacceptable, God doesn't, no, not in the slightest. In point of fact; He's all
for it. I know that's true because Christ said so.

†. John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit

Netherworld Update: 47 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,836,544 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 16th, 2015, 10:53 AM
You see, though a number of Bible students find the thought of people suffering in a fiery hell repulsive and unacceptable, God doesn't, no, not in the slightest. In point of fact; He's all for it. I know that's true because Christ said so.


As I recall it was Satan who said, "You shall not surely die."

Satan has fooled some people into thinking death is just another form of life, but that's a lie.

patrick jane
December 16th, 2015, 11:12 AM
Netherworld Update: 47 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,836,544 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Calculate backwards up to now, tell us approximately how many have gone to hell since the beginning.

WeberHome
December 16th, 2015, 11:40 AM
-

Calculate backwards up to now, tell us approximately how many have gone
to hell since the beginning.

That is something you can do for yourself. Just follow the procedure I gave
you in post #1.

Be sure to take into account that global population isn't static. Though
there's an estimated 7.3 billion people on earth today; that's not to say
there have been that many people on earth every day since the beginning.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
December 16th, 2015, 12:00 PM
-


That is something you can do for yourself. Just follow the procedure I gave
you in post #1.

Be sure to take into account that global population isn't static. Though
there's an estimated 7.3 billion people on earth today; that's not to say
there have been that many people on earth every day since the beginning.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

of course. The world population has been much lower going back 7,000 years or so. Literally billions in hell anyway

jamie
December 16th, 2015, 12:53 PM
-
If you honestly do not know what hades is; then I am forced to conclude that your comment in post #71 is an uneducated guess.

I never ask a question I don't know the answer to.

:Popcorn:

patrick jane
December 16th, 2015, 12:54 PM
I never ask a question I don't know the answer to.

:Popcorn:

What's the point then ? So you never ask a question. That makes no sense. Don't answer, I already know.

jamie
December 16th, 2015, 01:35 PM
So you never ask a question.


Why the misquote?

Timotheos
December 17th, 2015, 05:30 AM
Bible students find the thought of people suffering in a fiery hell repulsive and unacceptable, God doesn't, no, not in the slightest. In point of fact; He's all for it. I know that's true because Christ said so.


If you are going to claim that Christ said that God is all for people suffering in fiery hell, you are going to have to give a quote.

Christ NEVER said "God is all for people suffering in a fiery hell".
You are lying.

WeberHome
December 19th, 2015, 09:19 PM
-
The wrath of God is interesting. For example:

†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of Christ comes-- cruel; with both wrath and
fierce anger

The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which
indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be
weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great
White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated
with extreme prejudice; viz: their judgment will be administered with choler.
(cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)

Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.

"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings

†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation

"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It
speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're
actually red in the face.

There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so
coddled by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the
magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to
get them.

Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.

†. John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.

†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.

†. Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

You know all those horrors depicted in the book of Revelation? Jesus Christ
has been designated to supervise every one of them.

†. Rev 1:1 . .The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
servants.

Netherworld Update: 50 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,017,600 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
December 19th, 2015, 09:52 PM
-
The wrath of God is interesting. For example:



You like the doom and gloom don't you ? You love that Hell update. Netherworld sounds less harsh.

Timotheos
December 20th, 2015, 05:59 AM
Weber, you quoted part of Hebrews 10:27 as if it agreed with you that people are going to hell everyday where they will be tortured alive forever.

Hebrews 10:27 doesn't say that. Here is what Hebrews 10:27 says:
"but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (ESV)

Don't you see that the fire will "consume" the adversaries? They will not remain alive forever - Unconsumed - In Hell being tortured alive forever.

It is sad that people perish without Christ, without hope of eternal life in Christ. But it isn't true that these people will go to hell to be tortured alive forever. They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever.

WeberHome
December 20th, 2015, 10:08 AM
-

They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in
hell being tortured alive forever.

Eternal life is not the same as immortality. For example: Christ had eternal
life (John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2) yet was easily put to death on the
cross.

Now as for receiving eternal life: note the grammatical tense of the "have"
verb in the passages below. It's present tense rather than future; indicating
that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

†. John 6:54 . . Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal
life

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.

†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I should think that it goes without saying that christless people are in grave
danger of the sum of all fears.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.

According to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all matters pertaining
to life and death, people lacking eternal life are also lacking His son; viz:
they are quite christless.

†. 1John 5:11-12 . .This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal
life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and
whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

The reason that people lack eternal life in the here and now is very simple:
they're unbelievers, and if something isn't done about it before they pass
on; they will die unbelievers

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 20th, 2015, 11:28 AM
The reason that people lack eternal life in the here and now is very simple they're unbelievers, and if something isn't done about it before they pass on; they will die unbelievers


Why is that a problem?

WeberHome
December 20th, 2015, 12:38 PM
Why is that a problem?

Jamie, you've been on this internet forum since 2010; and you still don't
know? Please; if you're going to bore me, at least be clever about it.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
December 20th, 2015, 12:41 PM
Weber, you quoted part of Hebrews 10:27 as if it agreed with you that people are going to hell everyday where they will be tortured alive forever.

Hebrews 10:27 doesn't say that. Here is what Hebrews 10:27 says:
"but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (ESV)

Don't you see that the fire will "consume" the adversaries? They will not remain alive forever - Unconsumed - In Hell being tortured alive forever.

It is sad that people perish without Christ, without hope of eternal life in Christ. But it isn't true that these people will go to hell to be tortured alive forever. They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever.

That's right Tim, but weber grill doesn't want to think that way.

jamie
December 20th, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jamie, you've been on this internet forum since 2010; and you still don't know?


I never ask a question that I can't answer. People dying as unbelievers is not a problem at all. Unbelievers will have chance to receive Christ.

WeberHome
December 22nd, 2015, 12:07 PM
-
Creeping up the blind side, shinning up the wall,
stealing through the dark of the night.
Climbing through a window, stepping to the floor
checking to the left and the right.
Picking up the pieces, putting them away;
something doesn't feel quite right.

Help me someone, let me out of here.
Then out of the dark was suddenly heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Coming out the woodwork, through the open door,
pushing from above and below.
Shadows with no substance, in the shape of men;
round and down and sideways they go.
Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
then as one they sigh and they moan:

Help us someone, let us out of here.
Living here so long undisturbed,
dreaming of the time we were free
so many years ago
before the time when we first heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Sit down . . Sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you

Images of sorrow, pictures of delight
things that go to make up a life.
Endless days of summer, longer nights of gloom
waiting for the morning light.
Scenes of unimportance, photos in a frame
things that go to make up a life.

Sit down . . Sit down
Cause you won't get away,
no with us you will stay
for the rest of your days.
So sit down as we relive our lives in what we tell you.
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you.

Home By The Sea
Genesis, 1983
Phil Collins, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford

The lyrics of that song are very discouraging because it depicts how the only
thing people have to do down in the netherworld to help pass the time is tell
each other about their previous lives. There is, of course, nothing to tell
about their lives in hades since the colloquialism "get a life" is a non sequitur
in that place. Nobody has a life down there; nor any hope of getting one.

†. Ecc 9:10 . . Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your
might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in sheol
where you are going.

Netherworld Update: 53 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,198,656 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 22nd, 2015, 01:29 PM
Netherworld Update: 53 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,198,656 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Death and hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

WeberHome
December 25th, 2015, 01:21 PM
-
Below is a very disturbing passage.

†. 2Ths 2:11-12 . . And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,
that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not
believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In other words; there's coming a time when God's patience will reach its
reasonable limits, and He will purposely, willfully, and deliberately make sure
that a certain category of people have no chance whatsoever to be spared
the wrath of God.

Back when Noah was preparing the ark, no doubt his neighbors all mocked
and poked fun at him like one of those deranged souls that go around with a
sandwich board that reads: Repent; The End Is Near! But when the rain
started, I bet those very same neighbors panicked and tried to get Noah to
open up and let them in. But even had Noah wanted to; he couldn't. The
hatch of the ark was sealed from the outside: and God was the only one on
earth who could open it-- He chose not to.

†. Rev 1:18 . . I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive
forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

†. Rev 3:7 . .These are the words of him who is holy and true: who holds
the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one
can open.

Netherworld Update: 56 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,379,712 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
December 28th, 2015, 08:07 AM
-
The koinι Greek word for "hell" in Rev 20:13-14 is haides (hah'-dace) which
doesn't eo ipso indicate a place of fiery suffering. It's primary meaning is the
netherworld, where, at one time, every deceased person went regardless of
their age and regardless of their goodness or their badness. Even Christ
went there (Psalm 16:10 & Acts 2:23-32) and he was a good person.

According to Luke 16:19-31, haides is (or was) divided into two sections:
one for good people and one for bad people. The section designated for good
people was (or is) quite pleasant. (Luke 23:43).

The reason haides is slated for demolition is simply because there will be no
need for it in the future. Its bad people will be transferred to the lake of fire,
and its good people to a new cosmos and a new earth as per Isa 65:17, 2Pet
3:10-13, and Rev 21:1.

Netherworld Update: 59 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,379,712 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 28th, 2015, 09:28 AM
According to Luke 16:19-31, haides is (or was) divided into two sections: one for good people and one for bad people.


Not true. The grave and what it symbolizes is not divided.

The separation of body and spirit is death. The body decays and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

A person without a brain is brain dead.

WeberHome
December 31st, 2015, 03:21 PM
-
A forgiven sinner is still a sinner and they'll go right on sinning same as
before they were forgiven because human nature is intrinsically bad.

†. Gen 6:5 . .Yhvh saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had
become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
all the time.

†. Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from
childhood.

†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

†. Eph 2:3 . .We were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Netherworld Update: 62 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,741,854 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 31st, 2015, 04:15 PM
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Why do you believe innocent people would be checked into this imaginary fiery sector of the grave?

Ask Mr. Religion
December 31st, 2015, 04:32 PM
Another perspective on the many and the few...:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4485652#post4485652

AMR

WeberHome
December 31st, 2015, 05:32 PM
-

Why do you believe innocent people would be checked into this imaginary
fiery sector of the grave?

Your question is a non sequitur because it's based upon three false
premises.

1• You've falsely assumed that I believe innocent people check into the fiery
sector of hades

2• You've falsely assumed that I believe the fiery sector of hades is
imaginary

3• You've falsely assumed that I believe hades is the grave.

BTW: You really ought not be hounding me jamie. Don't you know that
persecution is a sin?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 3rd, 2016, 03:45 PM
-
Christ's version of Christianity is a lethal religion. It quite literally, in some
supernatural way that I don't quite understand; put Christ's believing
followers to death. Their entire existence, as natural-born human beings,
went up on the cross with him.

†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into
Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

One of my biggest fears as a Roman Catholic was that something fatal would
happen to me in between confessions. Well; you can just imagine my relief
at discovering that people punished on the cross with Christ are in no danger
of double jeopardy; which Webster's defines as: putting someone on trial for
an offense for which they have previously been put on trial under a valid
charge viz: two adjudications for one offense.

The Great White throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 is for the purpose of
putting people on trial for the things they did in life. Afterwards their lives
will be terminated by a death akin to a foundry worker falling into a vat of
molten metal.

If I appear at that event at all, it will be only as a spectator and/or a witness
for the prosecution because I was put on trial for the things I do in life when
Christ was put on the cross, and my life was terminated when his was
terminated. I have no clue how this works; I only know that I'm supposed to
reckon it true. (Rom 6:3-11)

Christ offers a version of Christianity that guarantees a Ten Commandments
proof, God proof, sin proof, Devil proof, temptation proof, fool proof, human
nature proof, human error proof, fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God. It
just amazes me the number of people, even those warming pews in old
school Christian churches, who want nothing to do with it.

Netherworld Update: 65 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,922,880 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 3rd, 2016, 03:51 PM
Where in the Bible does it say that new people are arriving in Hell every day?


Please be specific.

jamie
January 3rd, 2016, 06:58 PM
-
1• You've falsely assumed that I believe innocent people check into the fiery sector of hades


It's not an assumption, it's what you have claimed. Do you not believe death removes sin?

A person without sin could certainly be perceived as innocent. You claim innocent people go to some kind of a fiery sector of hades, whatever that means. I said "imaginary" because biblically there is no fiery sector of hades whatever you mean by that term.

WeberHome
January 3rd, 2016, 08:09 PM
-

Where in the Bible does it say that new people are arriving in Hell every
day? Please be specific.

You've inhabited Theology Online since February of 2013 and you still don't
know? Sorry, but I'm not in the habit of throwing good money after bad; if
you get my drift.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

patrick jane
January 3rd, 2016, 08:13 PM
-


You've inhabited Theology Online since February of 2013 and you still don't
know? Sorry, but I'm not in the habit of throwing good money after bad; if
you get my drift.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

You have no scripture to back you up ?

Timotheos
January 4th, 2016, 06:36 AM
-


You've inhabited Theology Online since February of 2013 and you still don't
know? Sorry, but I'm not in the habit of throwing good money after bad; if
you get my drift.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here's a hint for the clueless. The Bible does not say that there are daily arrivals in Hell. That's why you failed to show even one verse that says that there are daily arrivals in Hell.

You are simply wrong. Have a nice day.

WeberHome
January 4th, 2016, 11:25 AM
-
Of all the comments I've ever composed about hell over the years, this one
is perhaps the most disturbing; so if there are underage children present,
you might want to shoo them out of the room before continuing.

Lorena Bobbitt made news in 1993 by amputating her husband's manhood
with a carving knife while he was asleep. She was later acquitted by reason
of insanity. Lorena's conduct was by no means ground-breaking. Wikipedia
lists a number of such cases involving women mutilating men.

Lorena's conduct was excusable under law because of her mental state; but
there are perfectly rational, sane women out and about who would be
overjoyed with ecstasy to mutilate a man; for example:

On August 01, 2009, four angry women-- Therese A. Ziemann, 47, Wendy L.
Sewell, 44, Michelle M. Belliveau, 43, and Tracy M. Hood-Davis, 30 --were
charged in Stockbridge Wisconsin for luring a married man to a motel room
where they tied him up and blindfolded him, slapped him around for a while;
then removed his knickers and used super glue to attach his private to his
stomach in retaliation for two-timing them. I really have to wonder what in
God's name is going on inside those women's heads.

According to the Beatitudes (Matt 5:3-11) heaven is a place of peace and
kindness. Women whose imaginations are laced with wicked thoughts,
having hearts infected with a brutal desire to injure men, simply can't go
there. They would hate heaven anyway because they couldn't be themselves
there and would never fit in. They would not only be prevented from
assaulting men, but they wouldn't even be permitted the cruel enjoyment of
chafing men with denigrating remarks and demeaning comments.

The lake of fire depicted in Rev 19:20, 20:11-15, and 21:8 is hot enough to
ignite sulfur, so that if gorgeous girls like say Beyonce Knowles, Paris Hilton,
and Kim Kardashian are among the damned, they will have to lose their
faces and figures yet one more time via a horribly disfiguring mode of death
akin to a foundry worker falling into a vat of molten iron. The lake of flaming
sulfur will be a terrible heartbreak for the beautiful people.

In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the
extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women,
extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out
there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Your first few moments in
fire will be the worst part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then
extremities. Your bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive
unscathed from total bodily immersion in molten sulfur; and guess which
gender of the human race will be responsible for your death via third degree
burns all over your entire body; head to foot? A male.

†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day for judging the world with justice by
the man He has appointed, and He proved this to everyone by raising him
from the dead.

In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus
who casts malicious women into the lake and permanently ruins any chances
they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned
man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that
they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive
control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain
years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they
perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.

NOTE: There will no doubt be some bent noses over this post, and see it as
denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double
standard to think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask, since
when did women become a protected species? Women are not a protected
species. There are just as many, if not more, women dehydrating in hades
as men.

You malicious women out there in cyberspace need to keep something in
mind. At the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10-15, you are
going to be judged solely on the basis of your life rather than the basis of
your looks. Christ is not going to be influenced by the silkiness of your thighs
nor the size of your bosoms; no, in point of fact; he will be quite determined
to disfigure them.

†. Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.

†. Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of
life was cast into the lake of fire.

Netherworld Update: 66 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,983,232 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Arthur Brain
January 4th, 2016, 11:32 AM
Okay, you're a nut.

:freak:

patrick jane
January 4th, 2016, 12:23 PM
In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the
extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women,
extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out
there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Your first few moments in
fire will be the worst part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then
extremities. Your bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive
unscathed from total bodily immersion in molten sulfur; and guess which
gender of the human race will be responsible for your death via third degree
burns all over your entire body; head to foot? A male.


In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus
who casts malicious women into the lake and permanently ruins any chances
they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned
man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that
they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive
control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain
years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they
perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]NOTE: There will no doubt be some bent noses over this post,

:kookoo:

jamie
January 4th, 2016, 04:13 PM
Netherworld Update: 66 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,983,232 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Ok, so you obviously don't believe death pays for sins which means Jesus' death did not pay for your sins.

Too bad.

Arthur Brain
January 4th, 2016, 04:33 PM
This Weber guy is plain unhinged. Get help dude, seriously.

WeberHome
January 4th, 2016, 07:44 PM
-
The wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23)

In other words: each sin merits death.

Let's say somebody tells 50 lies in their lifetime. Well, in order to satisfy the
wages of sin for those 50 lies, the serial liar would need to undergo death 50
times; which means they would need to undergo resurrection that many
times too.

According to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29 there is only one resurrection
allotted per person. Well; the rub is: the serial liar will use up his one
allotted resurrection in order to face justice at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15. Which means that when the serial liar is
terminated in the lake of brimstone for the first of his 50 lies, he will remain
indebted to God to the tune of 49 lies forever. Ergo: the serial liar literally
hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of ever coming back from the brimstone.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
January 4th, 2016, 07:58 PM
In other words: each sin merits death. Let's say somebody tells 50 lies in their lifetime. Well, in order to satisfy the wages of sin for those 50 lies, the serial liar would need to undergo death 50 times; which means they would need to undergo resurrection that many times too.


Hilarious. :rotfl:

Arthur Brain
January 4th, 2016, 08:04 PM
-
The wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23)

In other words: each sin merits death.

Let's say somebody tells 50 lies in their lifetime. Well, in order to satisfy the
wages of sin for those 50 lies, the serial liar would need to undergo death 50
times; which means they would need to undergo resurrection that many
times too.

According to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29 there is only one resurrection
allotted per person. Well; the rub is: the serial liar will use up his one
allotted resurrection in order to face justice at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15. Which means that when the serial liar is
terminated in the lake of brimstone for the first of his 50 lies, he will remain
indebted to God to the tune of 49 lies forever. Ergo: the serial liar literally
hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of ever coming back from the brimstone.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Get some help man.

WeberHome
January 7th, 2016, 09:45 AM
-
COMMON ATTITUDE: I'm special; God understands me and He knows I'm
only human. Although God probably may not let others off; I'm sure He will
make an exception for me because I'm not like other people; I'm different.

RESPONSE: Unfortunately, the Bible's God can't do that. If He were to make
exceptions, God would be neither equitable, nor honest-- and worse, it
would go against His grain, compromise His integrity, sin against His
conscience; and cause Him to lose the world's respect.

No, God doesn't grade on a curve: everyone is treated equally in God's
courtroom. In a system of divine absolutes; there is neither a curve nor an
exception: nobody gets any favors, and nobody is special.

†. Deut 10:17 . . Yhvh shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

†. Acts 10:34 . .Then Peter began to speak: I now realize how true it is that
God is impartial.

†. Rom 2:5-11 . . For there is coming a day of judgment when God, the just
judge of all the world, will judge all people according to what they have
done. He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good,
seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he
will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who
refuse to obey the truth; and practice evil deeds.

. . .There will be anguish and calamity for everyone who practices evil-- for
the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and
peace from God for all practice good --for the Jew first and also for the
Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

NOTE: The reason it says "for the Jew first" is because of their privileged
position.

†. Amos 3:1-2 . . Hearken to this word which the Lord spoke about you, O
children of Israel, about the entire family which I brought up from the land
of Egypt, saying: Only you did I love above all the families of the earth;
therefore, I will visit upon you all your iniquities.

Netherworld Update: 69 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,164,288 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Caino
January 7th, 2016, 10:53 AM
-
COMMON ATTITUDE: I'm special; God understands me and He knows I'm
only human. Although God probably may not let others off; I'm sure He will
make an exception for me because I'm not like other people; I'm different.

RESPONSE: Unfortunately, the Bible's God can't do that. If He were to make
exceptions, God would be neither equitable, nor honest-- and worse, it
would go against His grain, compromise His integrity, sin against His
conscience; and cause Him to lose the world's respect.

No, God doesn't grade on a curve: everyone is treated equally in God's
courtroom. In a system of divine absolutes; there is neither a curve nor an
exception: nobody gets any favors, and nobody is special.

†. Deut 10:17 . . Yhvh shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

†. Acts 10:34 . .Then Peter began to speak: I now realize how true it is that
God is impartial.

†. Rom 2:5-11 . . For there is coming a day of judgment when God, the just
judge of all the world, will judge all people according to what they have
done. He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good,
seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he
will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who
refuse to obey the truth; and practice evil deeds.

. . .There will be anguish and calamity for everyone who practices evil-- for
the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and
peace from God for all practice good --for the Jew first and also for the
Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

NOTE: The reason it says "for the Jew first" is because of their privileged
position.

†. Amos 3:1-2 . . Hearken to this word which the Lord spoke about you, O
children of Israel, about the entire family which I brought up from the land
of Egypt, saying: Only you did I love above all the families of the earth;
therefore, I will visit upon you all your iniquities.

Netherworld Update: 69 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,164,288 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The Bible God seems similar to the ISIS idea of God.

We are all children of our Loving heavenly Father. That is to say, our real father is a God.

WeberHome
January 10th, 2016, 09:17 AM
-
Q: doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever as per Ps 100:5,
Ps 106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?

A: God's mercy never wears out; but His patience sometimes wears thin.
Good examples of that are the people swept away by the hand of God in the
Flood, and those burned to death by the hand of God in Sodom and
Gomorrah; and the firstborn of man and beast slain by the hand of God on
Passover night in Egypt.

Beware that you don't push God too far. For example:

†. Hos 4:17 . . Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.

In other words: God instructed the prophet Hosea not to bother preaching in
Ephraim. They were too far gone

Netherworld Update: 72 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,345,344 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 13th, 2016, 09:14 AM
-
Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in Christ's statement. It's
present tense rather than future, indicating that people who listen to his
message, and believe in God, have eternal life right now-- no delay and no
waiting period.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Since John 5:24 is an element of the gospel; then those who refuse to
believe Christ's statement is true, are already destined for hell-- no delay,
and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

FYI: Eternal life is a quality of life that's impervious to time, decay, death,
and the aging process. Therefore; believers with eternal life, and thus
already passed from death into life; are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.

Netherworld Update: 75 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,526,400 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 16th, 2016, 02:43 PM
-
†. Jonah 4:9-11 . . God said to Jonah: Do you have a right to be angry
about the vine? I do; he said. I am angry enough to die. But the Lord said:
You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or
make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. But Nineveh has
more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right
hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned
about that great city?

Had not the adults of Nineveh repented at Jonah's preaching, 120,000 small
children would have died through no fault of their own. They would have
been collateral damage had God lowered the boom on their parents. Just
exactly how the hand of God would have destroyed the glory of Nineveh isn't
stated in Jonah's prophecy; but in Nahum's prophecy it was by means of war
and conquest.

Just exactly how God is able to engineer such things is a bit of a mystery;
but does make one wonder where else this terrifying work of His goes on.
Did God somehow have a hand in the American civil war, and the first and
second world wars, and the Holocaust, and in Korea and Vietnam, and in the
so-called Arab Spring, and in the pandemics, the ethnic cleansings, and the
genocides of the last century, and in natural events like mighty earthquakes,
tsunamis, and super storms? I really have to wonder sometimes because
Jonah's God is still out there somewhere.

Netherworld Update: 78 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,707,456 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 20th, 2016, 06:26 AM
Netherworld Update: 78 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,707,456 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that those who refuse to repent will perish. What do you think? Will those who refuse to repent perish or will they be sent to the fiery section of hell to experience eternal conscious torment?

WeberHome
January 20th, 2016, 12:33 PM
-

Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that those who refuse to repent will perish. What do
you think? Will those who refuse to repent perish or will they be sent to the
fiery section of hell to experience eternal conscious torment?

The Greek word translated "perish" in Luke 13:3 is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo
mee). It primarily means to destroy fully; which some construe to mean
the termination of existence.

However, linguists have not only translated it perish and/or destroy, but
other ways too.

For example in Matt 10:6, Matt 15:24, Luke 15:4, and Luke 15:9 it's
translated "lost" as in lost sheep and lost money. In those instances, neither
the sheep nor the money were removed from existence.

At Matt 5:29-30 it speaks of amputation.

In other instances, apollumi is translated to indicate death; for example
Matt 2:13 where Herod sought to assassinate the baby Jesus, and Luke
13:33 and Luke 11:51 which speak of murder, and Matt 27:20 which speaks
of Christ's crucifixion, and 1Cor 10:9 which tells of the people who
succumbed to the venom of poisonous snakes.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 20th, 2016, 12:37 PM
-
The ordeal that Christ endured on the cross was so brief that it looks like
child's play in comparison to the horrors and the miseries of souls in Hell. His
sufferings barely lasted six hours (cf. Mark 15:25, Matt 27:46-50) not even
one whole day. People in hell go day, after day, after day, after day, after
day, infinitum.

Q: But if Christ suffered only six hours, how can he possibly atone for people
facing an eternity in Hell?

A: That's easy. It wasn't his torture that atoned for Man's sins; it was the
loss of his life that did the trick. Christ didn't have to go to the flames
himself in order to rescue people from flames; no, he only had to die in
accordance with the law of sin and death.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death

Individual human lives are of such low value that the most that normal
people could hope to die for is just one(1) sin. In most cases; that leaves a
pretty large balance to atone for. In contrast; the value of the life of God's
son is such that his death can atone for an infinite number of everybody's
sins.

†. 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from
the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid
was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of
Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Peter called the blood of Christ two things: a ransom and precious, meaning
it's like rare jewels and metals; very pricey. Nobody else's life is nearly as
valuable as Christ's life. Peter would never call regular human life rare and
pricey. Ordinary human lives are wholesale: they're cheap as the grass (Isa
40:6-7, 1Pet 1:24) just a dime a dozen and quite useless for redemption
purposes.

Jesus' life is the only life God will accept for multiple sins: and the
alternative is infinite punishment because no amount of limited punishment
can ever equal the value of Christ's blood because not only is a life like
Christ's rare, but his is the only one like it in existence. (cf. Rom 3:9-20,
Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, 1John 3:9)

Serial sinners are up a creek with no paddle because they have but two lives
to forfeit for sin-- the life they have now, and the one they'll have later at
their resurrection; but unfortunately, one of those lives is ear-marked for
Adam's sin so they can't use it to atone for any of their own sins.

And when they're resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15; that'll be their last life because according to Dan
12:2 and John 5:28-29 there's only one resurrection allotted per person.
And since the Bible's ratio is one life per one sin, then serial sinners will
come up short and never have sufficient lives to atone for a lifetime's
accumulation of sins.

Q: You say absolute justice for sins can't be satisfied with torture. Is Hell
thus inadequate justice or overdone justice?

A: The dungeons of hell can be compared to a debtor's prison.

†. Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too
late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in
jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last
penny.

The reason that hell is a debtor's prison is because the only payment for
one's sins that God will accept is death. Well; it's death for each sin. So if
somebody has say, 200 sins to answer for, they'll only be able to pay for one
because according to Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29 there is but one resurrection
allotted per person; not 200.

If absolute justice could be satisfied with torture, then hell's inmates could
look forward to a release date. But alas; such isn't to happen because the
only "coinage" the Bible's God is in a position to accept in lieu of their own
lives is His son's life.

†. 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from
the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid
was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of
Christ, the sinless, spotless lamb of God.

In other words; Christ's crucifixion is the final option. Those who refuse to
take advantage of it, will cross over to the other side in poverty; with
literally no way in hell to pay their debts to God; thus they'll be stuck there.

Netherworld Update: 82 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,948,864 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 20th, 2016, 03:48 PM
-


Both

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Both perishing and having eternal life in hell?
Both perishing and not perishing?

ttruscott
January 20th, 2016, 04:09 PM
We are all children of our Loving heavenly Father. That is to say, our real father is a God.

This misses the mark by quite a bit...
Deuteronomy 32:5 they have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not HIS children, because of their defect; (unfaith) But are a perverse and crooked generation. or: their defect is that they are not HIS children...

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires.

Matt 13:37-39 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil...

WeberHome
January 20th, 2016, 04:30 PM
-

Both perishing and having eternal life in hell? Both perishing and not
perishing?

I added some clarification in post #129

FYI: People in hell don't have eternal life: they have human life; which is a
natural kind of life created in the first chapter of Genesis.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 20th, 2016, 05:29 PM
-


I added some clarification in post #129

FYI: People in hell don't have eternal life: they have human life; which is a
natural kind of life created in the first chapter of Genesis.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Thanks. So do you think Luke 13:3 should be translated - No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise be lost?

Does that really fit with the context?
1There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? 3No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? 5No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

WeberHome
January 21st, 2016, 12:32 AM
-

So do you think Luke 13:3 should be translated - No, I tell you; but unless
you repent, you will all likewise be lost? Does that really fit with the
context?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that apollumi "should" be translated lost, but I
would go so far as to say that when people are killed in manners such as
those described in Luke 13:1-5, it's just as fair to say they were lost as it is
to say they perished.

Death is commonly portrayed as loss. For example: Pentagon Press
Secretary Peter Cook recently reported that a US serviceman lost his life
when he and some others came under fire In Afghanistan's Helmand
province.

Closer to home: I lost my favorite nephew back in September when he
suddenly dropped to the floor dead of natural causes.

People get way too narrow with apollumi. They desperately want it to mean
the termination of existence; but as you can see for yourself in post #129,
apollumi can't be restricted like that.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 21st, 2016, 07:33 AM
-


I wouldn't go so far as to say that apollumi "should" be translated lost, but I
would go so far as to say that when people are killed in manners such as
those described in Luke 13:1-5, it's just as fair to say they were lost as it is
to say they perished.

Death is commonly portrayed as loss. For example: Pentagon Press
Secretary Peter Cook recently reported that a US serviceman lost his life
when he and some others came under fire In Afghanistan's Helmand
province.

Closer to home: I lost my favorite nephew back in September when he
suddenly dropped to the floor dead of natural causes.

People get way too narrow with apollumi. They desperately want it to mean
the termination of existence; but as you can see for yourself in post #129,
apollumi can't be restricted like that.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The mesning of apollumi should not be restricted to exclude actual perishing. As you can see from the context, it actually does mean to perish.

I'm sorry to hear of your nephew. I know that you will see him again in the resurrection. God bless you.

WeberHome
January 24th, 2016, 10:49 PM
-
Far from being immortal, the natural-born human soul is quite susceptible to
termination.

†. Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The koinι Greek word for "destroy" in that passage is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo
mee) whioch is a bit ambiguous. It can mean not only to annihilate, but also
to kill; for example:

Matt 2:13
Matt 12:14
Matt 26:52
Matt 27:20
Mark 9:22
Lk 6:9
Lk 11:51
Lk 15:17
Lk 17:27
John 10:28
John 18:14
1Cor 10:9-10
2Pet 3:6
Jude 1:5

Q: Are dead human souls sentient?

A: Well; I've been with dead human bodies so I know for myself that dead
human bodies are not sentient. But I have never been with a dead human
soul so I have no personal experience to draw upon in that connection.

However, human life consists of more than only a body and a soul.
According to 1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12, Heb 12:23, and 1Pet 3:18-20; human life
also consists of spirit.

Apparently spirit cannot be destroyed by the fires of hell. I know that's true
because the Devil is spirit, and according to Rev 20:10; he will be
incarcerated in the reservoir of flaming sulfur, not to die, but so suffer--
forever. Quite a number of people are destined for that very same fate.

†. Matt 25:41 . . He will also say to those on the left hand: Depart from me,
you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The reverse logic of the jingle below is amusing:

"Guns don't kill people: People kill people."

It says though a gun is potentially lethal, it isn't a sentient being with a mind
of its own. Nevertheless, the fact remains that guns are quite capable of
killing people. In point of fact, according to Bureau Of Justice statistics;
in 2011 there was a total of 11,101 firearm homicides in the USA.

Here's another selection of reverse logic.

"Hell doesn't kill souls; God kills souls."

Is that jingle the whole truth and nothing but the truth? No; of course not.
Though the Bible's hell is no more a sentient being with a mind of its own
than a gun, it is nevertheless quite capable of killing souls.

The point is that a gun might terminate your body's life; but it cannot
terminate your soul's life. However, hell is far more powerful than a gun. It
will not only take your body's life, but it will take your soul's life too. To pull
the trigger, so to speak; all God has to do is drop you in there.

Q: If somebody is already dead, then how can hell kill their body?

A: The current hell doesn't kill the human body because for now when
people die, their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out ahead in
the future; people in the current hell will be resurrected to face justice at the
Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. It is then when
people's bodies will be terminated by yet another hell; and since there is but
one resurrection allotted per person (Dan 12:2, John 5:28-29) then nobody
is ever coming back from that hell.

OBJECTION: There is a lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15. Sorry; but it's
impossible to liquefy flame

RESPONSE: According to Rev 20:10, the lake consists of not only fire; but
also a non-metallic substance called brimstone; which Webster's defines as
sulfur.

Sulfur melts at 232.36Ί F and boils at 832.28Ί F. If sulfur's temperature is
maintained in that range; it easily suffices for an impoundment consisting of
both flame and liquid.

Netherworld Update: 86 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,190,272 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 27th, 2016, 06:42 PM
-
It's estimated in post #1 that something like something like 60,352 new
arrivals check into the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours on the
clock from all over the world; which if projected to the end of the 21st
century from 01/27/16 would eventually total 1.87 billion people; and that's
not factoring in all the people who have already lived and died during the
past millennia ever since the sixth day of Genesis. That's a lot of people; and
you have to wonder if the netherworld is sufficient to hold them. How will
they all fit?

Well; according to 1Pet 3:18-20, the people in hades are interred there as
spirits-- which is a non material substance that takes up no space in the
material world.

A good case in point is the feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33
possessed by a community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion.
Webster's defines a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army
comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with cavalry. The spirits that Christ
exorcised from the man went out and possessed a herd of about 2,000
swine, so that's a pretty good example of how spirits take up no room in the
physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those
spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be
no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the
point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world; so that the internal
regions of planet Earth (if that's where the hades of the Bible is) have plenty
of room for more and more occupants since people exist in the netherworld
as spirits rather than physical mortals because their bodies stay here when
they pass over to the other side.

So then, all those 60,352 people from around the globe who passed on to
hades yesterday, didn't create a housing shortage when they arrived. No,
they fit in quite easily; and there's still plenty of room left for more since
spirits don't need space: they just need a place.

Netherworld Update: 89 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,371,328 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
January 30th, 2016, 11:38 AM
-
Q: Do you not know it is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance
rather than threats of justice? (Rom 2:4)

A: If the Bible's God weren't so kind, then He wouldn't bother with giving His
creatures advance notice of the horror in store for them in the afterlife.

†. Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say unto you my friends; Be not afraid of them that
kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will
forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath
power to cast into Hell; yea, I say unto you: Fear Him.

Was Christ wrong to instill a fear of God within people's hearts? No, I think
he was 110% justified. For example: when I was working as a professional
welder for the US Army Corps of Engineers, we had weekly and monthly
safety meetings wherein we were shown some grisly photographs of real life
industrial accidents involving burns, chain saws, punctured eyes, explosions,
falls, crane collapses, suffocation, crushing, and the like. Let me tell you
something: those safety meetings got our attention, and really made a sharp
distinction between the fool and the wise.

†. Prv 22:3 . . A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes
precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

The kindness of God has given the world fair and adequate notice of an
afterlife doom. Those who don't care about it one way or the other would be
well advised to use what time they have remaining to begin mentally
preparing themselves for the worst when they cross over to the other side.

Netherworld Update: 92 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,552,384 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Timotheos
January 30th, 2016, 12:24 PM
If the sign says "Bridge Out! If you proceed you will perish!", should we assume that if we ignore the sign, we will be tortured alive?

So since the Bible says "Whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life", should we assume that if we ignore Him we won't perish but will be tortured alive in hell?

No. The warnings in the Bible are of destruction, not eternal torment in hell.
Matthew 10:28 says "Do not fear the one who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul, rather fear the one who is able to destroy both the soul and body in Gehenna. (translated Hell)

WeberHome
February 2nd, 2016, 11:05 AM
-
Q: According to the Christians; it is a "must" to believe the Gospel in order
to be spared the wrath of God. How is that fair for peoples of the world who
were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

A: There seems to be a number of Christians running around loose out there
unaware of a gospel called the everlasting gospel; which reads like this:

†. Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to
every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud
voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is
come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is very simple. Pretty much all it says is (1) be afraid,
(2) there's a supreme being, (3) there's a reckoning looming on the horizon,
and (4) the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the
product of intelligent design.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers;
and to give them credit where credit is due; but not quite so natural to do
the same for their creator, Anyway, point being: you either believe in
intelligent design, or you don't. If you do believe, then you will admire both
the originator's genius and His handiwork. If you don't believe; you won't
admire either. Simple as that.

The everlasting gospel is interesting in that it isn't preached by humans;
rather, it's preached by nature itself whose pulpit is everywhere, and speaks
its message in every language known to man.

†. Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the
work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night
they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is
not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of
the world.

God allows no excuse for disbelieving the everlasting gospel.

†. Rom 1:18-21 . .The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in
unrighteousness; because what may be known of God is manifest in them,
for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His
invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without
excuse.

It's humorous that when Europeans began invading the lands of North
America's native peoples, they thought it prudent to convert them to
Christianity. I really have to laugh at that because many of the peoples
whom the Europeans labeled "wild men" were already believing the
everlasting gospel centuries before the Europeans even dared to attempt
crossing the Atlantic ocean.

Can belief in the everlasting gospel save wild men? Of course it can or why
would the angel of Rev 14:6-7 bother to fly around the world heralding it?
I'll tell you one thing: there is far more hope for a pre-Columbus Iroquois
than there is for a space-age atheist familiar with the book of Genesis, and
heard the gospel of Christ as per Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and
brushed it all off as musty old myths and fantasy underserving of their
attention.

Netherworld Update: 95 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,733,440 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
February 5th, 2016, 05:06 PM
-
It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the
destination is the same.

But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs.

If traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a
very unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are
approximately:

50 thousand Scientologists
15 million Mormons
8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists

The grand total of just those categories is 4,569,460,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if normal Christianity is the truth;
then at the least 63% of the earth's current population of 7.30 billion people
are on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our
friends, our relatives, and our associates.

Netherworld Update: 98 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,914,496 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Arthur Brain
February 6th, 2016, 12:40 AM
I'll bet you're great fun at parties...

Mark M
February 6th, 2016, 12:59 AM
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It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the
destination is the same.

But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs.

If traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a
very unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are
approximately:

50 thousand Scientologists
15 million Mormons
8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists

The grand total of just those categories is 4,569,460,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if normal Christianity is the truth;
then at the least 63% of the earth's current population of 7.30 billion people
are on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our
friends, our relatives, and our associates.

Netherworld Update: 98 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,914,496 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

Where's the Christians on your list?

WeberHome
February 6th, 2016, 03:10 PM
Where's the Christians on your list?

Webster's defines a Christian as: one who professes belief in the teachings
of Jesus Christ.

Off hand; I'd say that Webster's definition qualifies Mormons and Jehovah's
witnesses as Christians. Some might even go so far as to say it qualifies
Buddhists too because according to Webster's, it isn't necessary to practice
Jesus Christ's teachings; only to profess belief in them.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Zeke
February 6th, 2016, 03:42 PM
The surname is Lord of them all, Seeing it's all a artificial land of labels that imprison you along with those you condemn, preventing you from gathering all things in Christ which is still knocking seeing He is the conscience light within every one that came into this world.

Mark M
February 6th, 2016, 05:32 PM
Webster's defines a Christian as: one who professes belief in the teachings
of Jesus Christ.

Off hand; I'd say that Webster's definition qualifies Mormons and Jehovah's
witnesses as Christians. Some might even go so far as to say it qualifies
Buddhists too because according to Webster's, it isn't necessary to practice
Jesus Christ's teachings; only to profess belief in them.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I understand the Jehova and Mormon believe in Jesus but you still left Christians off, and some professed Christians go to hell also. that skews your numbers. Do Buddhists believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour and the Son of God ?

WeberHome
February 6th, 2016, 08:30 PM
I understand the Jehova and Mormon believe in Jesus but you still left
Christians off, and some professed Christians go to hell also.
The list in post #142 does not tally the current number of people going to
hell; it only tallies the current number of people on a road to hell. Those
numbers of course are not set in concrete seeing as how it is not unusual for
people on that list to convert to traditional Christianity before they pass
away.

Traditional Christians per se are on a road to heaven. As to whether they all
make it or not remains to be seen.


Do Buddhists believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour and the Son of God?
Some might even go so far as to say they do.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
February 22nd, 2016, 03:40 AM
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Netherworld Update: 115 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 6,940,480 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=

WeberHome
August 29th, 2017, 08:47 PM
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It's sometimes proposed that Noah could have jumped off the Ark had he been inclined. Well; I seriously doubt that Noah would have done something so foolhardy. But no matter, because according to Gen 7:16, he was shut in.

The Lord not only shut him in, but sealed him in too. The hatch to hull mating surfaces had to be waterproofed with bitumen the same as all the rest of the hull. (Gen 6:14)

The Hebrew word for "shut" actually means to shut up; like as when a corral gate is closed to pen livestock and/or the door of a jail cell is locked to confine a convict. In other words, Noah was trapped inside the Ark by a door that could be opened only from the outside. That's interesting. It means that once the Ark's door was sealed, Noah's free will no longer mattered; it was trumped by the free will of a higher power; and were he, or anybody else inside, to change their mind about going, it was too late.

● Rev 1:9-18 . . I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."

. . . I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

. . .When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living one; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

● Rev 3:7 . . What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

Netherworld Update: 669 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,375,488 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

NOTE: That number surpasses the combined population of the states of California and Rhode Island.

/

jamie
August 30th, 2017, 09:14 AM
"The sea gave up the dead who were in it and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works." (Revelation 20:13)

According to their works at that time. Sins in their previous life were paid for.

WeberHome
August 30th, 2017, 07:30 PM
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I applied to the US Army right out of high school but was turned down because I had a police record; which stated that I was suspected of gasoline theft. I was never arrested, nor brought to trial, nor convicted; but on the books the case was still open, implying that the investigation was ongoing. (The police's case was eventually dropped so I could join the Army.)

It's true that Jesus Christ went to the cross for everybody's sins (1John 2:2). However, his crucifixion removed no one's sins from the books to be used against them later on at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. His crucifixion has made it possible for people to get their records wiped; but that's as far as it goes; i.e. only possible.

It's essential that people get their records wiped so that on the books it appears they have never been anything but 100% innocent or they won't be allowed in heaven. Of course God knows all about everybody, but if there is nothing on the books with which to accuse people, then He has to declare them acquitted or they will have no hope whatsoever of getting into heaven just as I had no hope whatsoever of getting into the Army until the police's case against me was dropped.

Now; the million dollar question is: How do people, for whom Christ died, go about taking advantage of the opportunity that his crucifixion has made possible? How do they go about getting God's case against them dropped? In other words; How do they go about getting the record of their sins wiped?

The answer to that question is extremely crucial because even though Christ died for everybody, not everybody is going to heaven; and there's a very good reason why.

/

jamie
August 30th, 2017, 08:48 PM
Now; the million dollar question is: How do people, for whom Christ died, go about taking advantage of the opportunity that his crucifixion has made possible? How do they go about getting God's case against them closed? In other words; How do they go about getting the record of their sins wiped?


It's simple. Peter said, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

WeberHome
August 31st, 2017, 06:48 AM
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It's simple. Peter said, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

If it were really that simple, then nobody baptized like that would go to hell; not even Jehovah's Witnesses.

/

jamie
August 31st, 2017, 07:17 AM
If it were really that simple, then nobody baptized like that would go to hell; not even Jehovah's Witnesses.


The word "hell" refers to the grave. Humans are mortal and it has been appointed for each person to die once.

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27)

Even Jesus died once and went to hell.

We can't be judged until after we die, which pays for sin.

WeberHome
August 31st, 2017, 02:18 PM
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We can't be judged until after we die, which pays for sin.

According to Romans 5:12-17, the first death can't be used to satisfy justice for one's own personal sins because it's ear-marked for Adam's.

/

jamie
August 31st, 2017, 02:42 PM
According to Romans 5:12-17, the first death can't be used to satisfy justice for one's own personal sins because it's ear-marked for Adam's.


Yes, Adam was the second human to sin, so what?

"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." (Ezekiel 18:20)

Jesus Christ is the only one who can pay for the sin of someone else.

He can do that because he is the Creator of humans.

WeberHome
August 31st, 2017, 04:11 PM
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Adam was the second human to sin, so what?

Don't be flippant. This is a very serious matter. Romans 5:12-17 is explicit that God reckons Adam's posterity as joint principals in his act of disobedience. That's the way God wants it; and the information is in the Bible for you to know, not to oppose.



"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." (Ezekiel 18:20)

Adam broke God's command prior to the introduction of all the other divine commands in the Bible. Therefore, seeing as how God's laws do not apply ex post facto (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17) then Ezekiel's prophecy came along too late to prevent God from laying Adam's guilt upon his entire posterity.

So then, just as Adam had to die for disobeying God by eating the forbidden fruit, so does everyone else.

The good news is: the forbidden fruit incident wasn't a sin unto hell; it's only a sin unto the first death; so people needn't be too concerned about it.

/

jamie
August 31st, 2017, 06:20 PM
Romans 5:12-17 is explicit that God reckons Adam's posterity as joint principals in his act of disobedience.


No he doesn't. Righteous Abel was not held accountable for his dad's sin.

WeberHome
September 1st, 2017, 10:21 PM
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● 1John 1:9 . . If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Forgiveness isn't a cure; viz: forgiven alcoholics and LGBT go right on as alcoholics and LGBT just like always and were they to attempt to suppress their desires throughout eternity, I think they would eventually go mad with a nervous breakdown because they would be fighting against nature; which everybody instinctively knows is a fight that can't be won without suffering serious psychological consequences.

So then, it's futile to tell alcoholics and LGBT to stop giving in to their desires if they want to get to heaven and stay in heaven because that's not a viable, long-range solution to their problem. The problem is not their conduct; no, their conduct is merely a symptom; and as every informed person knows: you don't treat an illness by treating its symptoms-- that method has been proven ineffective.

God's remedy for alcoholics and LGBT is radical, to say the least; but it's the only way He can get them into heaven so they can stay in heaven.

First off: He doesn't remove their longings and desires; instead God regards their natural-born condition as so far gone that it can't be treated. In other words: God throws the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, and starts from scratch with a new baby.

● John 3:3 . . I tell you the truth: no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

The birth about which Christ spoke isn't an option; no, it's a must.

● John 3:7 . .You must be born again.

That goes for everybody, not just alcoholics and LGBT, because Christ said "no one" can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again; which of course has to include all the holy people in the Old Testament too or otherwise the words "no one" are just hot air and serve no useful purpose.

Netherworld Update: 672 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,556,544 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

Caino
September 2nd, 2017, 06:03 PM
Hell is an invention of backward holy men who didn't know a better message of truth. God is good and moral.

WeberHome
September 4th, 2017, 10:06 AM
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In the incident below; Abimelech was within a hair's breadth of being slain for sleeping with Abraham's wife Sarah even though he didn't know at the time that she was married.

● Gen 20:4b . . He said: O Lord, will You slay people even though innocent?

The answer to Abimelech's question is YES.

The thing is; although ignorance mitigates one's responsibility, ignorance doesn't excuse it. For example: laws in the 5th chapter of Leviticus require that after it's brought to someone's attention that they have done something wrong, they have to offer an atonement for the guilt they accrued without their knowing it. In point of fact: Num15:30-31 permits neither forgiveness nor atonement for sins committed knowingly; viz: deliberate sins.

So the offender is guilty either way; whether he sins uninformed or sins informed makes no difference except that informed sins pull down upon one's self far more serious consequences than uninformed sins.

● Luke 12:47-48 . .That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be required.

Netherworld Update: 675 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,737,600 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

jamie
September 4th, 2017, 11:31 AM
In the incident below; Abimelech was within a hair's breadth of being slain for sleeping with Abraham's wife Sarah even though he didn't know at the time that she was married.


Did Abimelech have sexual relations with Sarah?

Did Abimelech sin?

"And God said to him in a dream, 'Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me, therefore I did not let you touch her.'"

WeberHome
September 5th, 2017, 04:55 PM
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● Rev 20:12-13 . . I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

There's a few points about this judgement that I think are worth highlighting.

1• It's often thought of as a so-called general judgement; but this one is specifically for the dead. No living are in view here.

2• It's also thought of as the sheep and goats judgement; but that one takes place when Christ returns to rule the current world, whereas this one takes place when the current world is no more.

3• According to Jude 1:14-15 the dead will be given a fair trial.

4• According to Matt 12:36, every word that the dead have spoken will used as evidence both against them and/or for them; not just their serious words, but also their careless words.

5• The scene doesn't depict one future out of a variety of possible futures; no, it depicts the actual future.

/

WeberHome
September 8th, 2017, 02:13 PM
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● Rev 20:13 . . I saw the dead, and they were judged, every one of them

Netherworld Update: 679 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 40,979,008 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

Rev 20:13 says that "every one of them" were judged. Well; I don't know precisely how many people that entails, but lets say that it's the number above. Well; if each case takes an hour to complete, we're looking at 1,707,459 calendar days, i.e. 4,678 years; if the judging goes around the clock 24/7/365.

Just think of that. In only 679 days, enough cases accumulated to keep the great white throne busy a minimum of 46½ centuries.

From today, 4,678 years goes back to 2661BC; roughly 101 years before construction of the great pyramid at Giza.

/

jamie
September 8th, 2017, 03:20 PM
Rev 20:12-13 . . I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.


According to their deeds.

Are you referring to their past deeds?

What makes you think salvation is given because of our deeds?

WeberHome
September 21st, 2017, 01:23 PM
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The current world population is approximately 7,422,789,590. If each of those numbers were given even as little as a half hour with God to answer for themselves, it would take something like 423,675 years to clear the docket.

I once remarked to a friend that it is going to take God a very long time to judge everyone. He responded; "Well; He has lots of time."

Netherworld Update: 692 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 41,763,584 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

WeberHome
October 24th, 2017, 06:59 PM
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● Psalm 15:1-5

Q: Lord, who may dwell in your sanctuary? Who may live on your holy hill?

A: He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellowman, who despises a vile man but honors those who fear The Lord, who keeps his oath even when it hurts, who lends his money without usury and does not accept a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things will never be shaken.

Netherworld Update: 725 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 43,755,200 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

jamie
October 25th, 2017, 02:15 PM
If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 43,755,200 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


Hell is an English term for the grave.

What are your figures based on?

WeberHome
October 25th, 2017, 05:30 PM
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What are your figures based on?

See post #1

/

WeberHome
November 2nd, 2017, 06:36 PM
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Christ is often thought of as a pacifist. But the fact of the matter is, Christ and the fearsome God of the Old Testament are in total agreement.

● John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

In other words; Christ would never disapprove of the Flood, nor of the incineration of Sodom and Gomorrah. In point of fact, had Christ been on hand for those events, he would have been only too happy to lend a hand.

● John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

It's puzzled me why Christ's enemies weren't more afraid of him because when you think about it: if he could cure blindness, then he could just as easily cause it, and if he could cure paralysis, then he could just as easily cause that too; and if he could cure the deaf and the dumb, then he could just as easily take away the ability to speak and hear; and if he could feed thousands, then he could just as easily starve thousands; and if he could calm a storm, then he could just as easily generate a storm; and if he could replace a severed ear, then he could just as easily take an ear off; and if he could turn water into wine, then he could just as easily turn water into acid; and if he could exorcise demons, then he could just as easily muster demons for wide-spread possession.

The first time Christ came, he came as a victim; the next time he will come as a conqueror. One day out ahead, Christ is taking the reins of this planet, and his administration will be neither soft hearted nor soft headed.

● Ps 2:9-12 . .You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery. Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve The Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

Some time ago I noticed that the law Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy contains no stipulations for plea bargaining, imprisonment, or appeals-- justice is swift and some of its punishments are what we today in our sophisticated society would call cruel and unusual; plus capital punishment is ordered for quite a variety of violations. There is no such thing as a life sentence in that law. Those that would otherwise deserve it, are simply put to death.

Netherworld Update: 734 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 44,298,368 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

WeberHome
November 8th, 2017, 09:02 PM
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● 1Pet 3:15b . . Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you.

The koinι Greek word for "hope" in that passage, and in others (e.g. Rom 8:23-25) is elpis (el-pece') which means expectation; viz: elpis isn't wishful thinking, nor crossing your fingers, nor is it a blend of longing, insecurity, and doubt; no, elpis is a confident kind of hope that looks forward to something that it fully expects to obtain; ergo: elpis is an anticipating hope; viz: it doesn't pray for the best, while in the back of its mind dreading the worst.

The Bible says that elpis is a "calling"

● Eph 4:5 . .You were called to one hope when you were called

When people aren't 100% sure what the afterlife has in store for them-- if there is even the slightest possibility of disappointment --they can't possibly comply with Peter's instructions for the simple reason that the hope that is in them, if any, is the wrong kind of hope.

Netherworld Update: 740 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 44,660,480 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

WeberHome
November 11th, 2017, 07:53 AM
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POSIT: God doesn't burn His children in hell!

RESPONSE: Not everyone qualifies as God's children; for example:

● Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

The koinι Greek word for "peacemakers" is eirenopoios (i-ray-nop-oy-os') an ambiguous word that can indicate people who effect peace, and also people who are peaceable in nature.

Peaceable folk are tactful and make an effort to keep a civil tongue in their head-- a tongue that goes easy on people's nerves rather than a tongue that deliberately grates, stirs the pot, chafes, antagonizes, denigrates, humiliates, demoralizes, ridicules, injures, provokes, demeans, discourages, and tears people down and makes them feel bad about themselves.

There are some people in this world who are simply implacable. They're indignant over everything, For them rivalry, conflict, revenge, retaliation, quarrelling, and grudging are a way of life: every disagreement is an act of war-- their egos are fragile; they're defensive, they're reactive, and easily insulted.

They thrive on criticism, carping, finding fault and pointing out mistakes, tattling, bickering, retorts, rejoinders, recriminations, endless debate, telling other people off, and giving others a piece of their mind. And some of them are bullies, meddlers, domineering, imperious, and rumor mongers.

Those kinds of people are definitely not of the peaceable genre so it's necessary to quarantine them away from God's children so as not to make heaven a living hell like they do for people on earth.

Netherworld Update: 743 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 44,841,536 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

NOTE: That number of pints equals 5,605,192 gallons of water; which would refill a standard Olympic swimming pool 8½ times.

/

jamie
November 11th, 2017, 08:57 AM
If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 44,841,536 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.


The fiery sector of Hades existed only in pagan mythology.

Are you pagan?

WeberHome
November 14th, 2017, 08:12 PM
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In the letter to Hebrews; it's explained that Yom Kippur's ritual only addresses sins committed up to that point; i.e. the very moment that the high priest completes the full and complete ritual, new sins immediately begin to accumulate on the books requiring the attention of yet another Yom Kippur; and another, and another, and another, ad infinitum; viz: Yom Kippur's ritual is never sufficient to address sins once and for all. In other words: it's always and only for addressing the people's past sins; never their future sins.

Q: How can any ritual, man-made or God-given, address sins that people haven't even committed yet, and/or may never commit?

A: Note the grammatical tense of the passage below. It's past, rather than present.

● Isa 53:6 . . We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

In other words; seeing as how that passage in Isaiah was penned sometime in the 8th century BC, then the sins of the world were all laid on Christ even before he was born. Well, in order to do that, God would have to know in advance each and every sin that the world would commit from beginning to end. Now that's what I call omniscience to the max.

● 1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

NOTE: Jesus is described as the lamb slain from the foundation of the world; indicating that Calvary was factored into creation's master plan even before God made the very first carbon atoms. (1Pet 1:20, Rev 13:8)

In addition, believers are described as chosen before the foundation of the world. No doubt the reason for that being that God knew beforehand who would follow His son and who wouldn't. (Eph 1:4-5)

FYI: Knowing in advance who would, and who would not, follow His son is sometimes perceived as pre-selecting people for salvation. No; it's just that people, from God's perspective, are a foregone conclusion, i.e. He knows every decision that we'll ever make before they even come along for us to think about. It's impossible to surprise God.

Netherworld Update: 746 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 45,022,592 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

/

Caino
November 14th, 2017, 08:30 PM
Hell was invented by snake oil salesman who had no positive truth to teach.

WeberHome
November 19th, 2017, 01:41 PM
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● 1Pet 5:5b . . and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

The koinι Greek word for "humble" is tapeinophrosune (tap-i-nof-ros-oo'-nay) which means lowliness of mind; viz: modesty, which Webster's defines as freedom from conceit or vanity. Lowliness of mind is to be greatly desired for its blessing.

● Matt 5:3 . . Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Humility is very rare on internet forums. Active members are typically easily insulted and infected with vanity; plus imperious, domineering, despotic, assertive, confrontational, arrogant, conceited, reactive, thin-skinned, self-righteous, emotional, critical, and defensive. Those are not what I would call good Christian attributes. They also have a propensity to jump to conclusions, get the wrong impression, and fly off the handle. Those aren't good Christian attributes either; in point of fact; none of those attributes are blessing-worthy.

"Grace" is one of those ambiguous abstract nouns that nobody seems to agree upon. Noah found grace in God's eyes (Gen 6:8) which in his case, regarded providence; which can be defined as kindly patronage. It was by God's providence that Noah and his family survived the Flood while the sons of God and their harems didn't. Let that sink in. Just because people label themselves a Christian, and profess a belief in Christ, is no guarantee they'll escape the horrors of the book of Revelation. Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generation; too many of today's card-carrying Christians are neither.

The koinι Greek word for "proud" is huperephanos (hoop-er-ay'-fan-os) which means appearing above others, viz: haughty. Those kinds of people typically regard others with contempt, i.e. underserving of respect or even so much as common courtesy. Haughty people are typically cruel, thoughtless, insensitive, and badly infected with a superiority complex, which goes hand in hand with arrogance: defined as an exaggerated sense of one's importance, sometimes manifested in an overbearing manner.

Arrogant people can be intolerably pushy and assertive at times; standing up to them usually always provokes an indignant reaction and a call to arms, so to speak, because these folk regard any and all disagreements with their way of thinking as demeaning attacks upon their core values and their distorted sense of self worth. These people have very little interest in harmony; they're stand-up fighters whose primary interest is winning.

Seeing as how Heaven is reputed a place of peace, then the arrogant, the haughty, and the proud cannot be allowed to go there with their unholy personalities. For sure they'd just end up making things very uncomfortable for Heaven's normally mild-mannered, affable society.

Netherworld Update: 751 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 45,324,352 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
November 22nd, 2017, 09:55 PM
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● 1Cor 15:26 . .The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

There will be no more death after the second death spoken of in Rev 20:11-15. However, according to the prophet Daniel (Dan 12:2) and according to the lord and master of Christianity (John 5:28-29) there is but one end-time resurrection allotted per person. So then, nobody will be coming back from the lake of brimstone seeing as how they will use up their one allotted end-time resurrection in order to face justice at the great white throne event.

The abolition of death simply means that nobody will ever have to die again, but it does not mean that many of those who die prior to the abolition of death won't stay dead; viz: just as those who died in the Flood stayed dead, so those on track to die in the lake of brimstone will also stay dead because death won't be abolished until after all is said and done at the great white throne event. (Rev 21:1-4)

Netherworld Update: 754 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 45,505,408 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
November 26th, 2017, 12:08 PM
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The gospel preached by the apostle Paul contains a class action indictment against not just some impiety and some unrighteousness, nor against the worst kinds of impiety and unrighteousness; rather, against everything that's impious and unrighteous. (Rom 1:18)

The main points of the indictment are:

1• Suppressing the truth about what's truly right and what's truly wrong. (Rom 1:18)

2• Ignoring the evidence of nature that the cosmos-- all of is forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of intelligent design, (Rom 1:19-20)

3• Replacing the genuine God with artificial substitutes. (Rom 1:21-23)

4• Revising the facts about God with fiction, fantasy, and imagination. (Rom 1:25a)

5• Placing more importance upon the value of nature than upon the value of the maker of nature. (Rom 1:25b)

6• Perverting normal bedroom activities and affections, i.e. LGBT. (Rom 1:26-27)

7• Living one's life uncaring about how God might feel about anything. (Rom 1:28)

8• Indifference to what is widely known to be divine consequences. (Rom 1:32)

Netherworld Update: 758 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 45,746,816 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
November 29th, 2017, 09:00 PM
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● Rom 1:16-17 . . I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ . . For therein is the righteousness of God revealed.

The righteousness of God is often accused of being unrighteous. But you know; God's righteousness doesn't have to be truly righteous. The thing is; God's righteousness is on His own terms, i.e. it's whatever God decides to say is righteous because He's a powerful despot who's in a very good position to have everything His own way.

● Rom 9:20 . .Who are you, O man, that talks back to God?

Netherworld Update: 761 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 45,927,872 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 3rd, 2017, 04:03 AM
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● 1John 4:1 . . Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The koinι Greek word for "spirits" is pneuma (pnyoo'-mah) which means, among other things; a current of air; viz: winds and breezes. Probably what John is talking about are influences; which range anywhere from celebrities and astrological horoscopes to popular singers and musicians; with philosophers, poets, and pulpit pounders being somewhere in the middle.

The common Greek word translated "prophet" is prophetes (prof-ay'-tace) which essentially identifies a foreteller; i.e. someone who can predict the future. But it also applies to inspired speakers as per Eph 4:11-15.

Abraham was a prophet (Gen 20:7). Though Abraham saw the future (e.g. John 8:56) there's no record of him foretelling it; but there's evidence enough to believe that he was at least an inspired speaker. (Gen 18:19)

The problem with testing speakers is that there exists no universal standard for doing it. The testing of inches, meters, yards, centimeters, cups, and teaspoons is easy because we have universal standards for those measurements that everybody goes by. But in regards to doctrine; really all that most Christians have to go by are the standards of their own denomination. In other words: truth for a Catholic is whatever Rome says it is, while truth for a Mormon is whatever Joseph Smith and/or Brigham Young say it is; while truth for a Jehovah's Witness is whatever the Watch Tower Society says it is; and truth for a Baptist is whatever their Baptist minister says it is.

So then, truth among Christians is typically proprietary truth rather than standard truth; so good luck testing the spirits seeing as how even your own spiritual influences are suspect.

I personally believe the Bible to be an independent, non-proprietary source of truth. So then, if I were to put a Bible in your hands, could you use it as a sort of sacred Geiger counter to test the winds of religious thought? No; you couldn't; and that's because there are any number of ways to interpret the Bible; and whose to say that their way is the one that's infallible and speaking for God ex cathedra?

Jesus said that false prophets are known by their fruits (Matt 7:15-20). But there again, not everyone is qualified to be a fruit inspector, so good luck with that.

Netherworld Update: 765 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 46,169,280 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 10th, 2017, 06:57 PM
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The term "sin nature" found in some versions of the Bible, is actually an interpretation rather than a translation. I suspect somebody coined it as a substitute for the flesh that Paul often spoke of in his letters.

● Rom 8:8 . .They that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The koinι Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which basically indicates the meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within humanity's bony little skulls sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult to tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.

The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1) the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people, and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and traits of humans.

Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very" good (Gen 1:31). In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.

When people do something contrary to their better judgment; it's very common to hear them complain "I don't know what came over me." Well; the thing that came over them was their own body exerting its fundamental dispositions and traits; viz: the human body literally has a mind of its own; it constantly, and perpetually, competes with its host for control of their thoughts, their speech, and their conduct, and more often than not wins.

When I was a growing boy my dad was always telling me that I was my own worst enemy. I think that maybe the apostle Paul would have agreed with my dad because he too was his own worst enemy.

● Rom 7:18 . . For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing

● Rom 7:24 . .What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

Netherworld Update: 772 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 46,591,744 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 14th, 2017, 01:47 PM
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There are some people about whom it can honestly be said that the world is a better place with them gone. But even more so is the fact that they won't be coming back to disturb the tranquility of Messiah's new world order.

● Ps 37:10-11 . . For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; indeed, you will look carefully for his place, but it shall be no more. But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

● Isa 9:7 . . Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.

Netherworld Update: 776 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 46,833,152 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 17th, 2017, 10:11 AM
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Well, since my baby left me,
I found a new place to dwell.
It's down at the end of lonely street
At Heartbreak Hotel.

And although it's always crowded,
You still can find some room.
(Elvis Presley, Heartbreak Hotel, 1956)

Sometimes when people are poured a beverage; they're instructed to say "when". One thing about death that's certain; it never says when.

● Prov 30:15-16 . . There are three things that will not be satisfied, four that will not say, "enough".

Well; one of those four is a place called sheol; which is often translated: the grave.

Netherworld Update: 779 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 47,014,208 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 20th, 2017, 10:09 AM
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● 2Cor 5:1-4 . . For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The koinι Greek word for "naked" in that passage is gumnos (goom-nos') which implies full frontal.

That passage got me to thinking there's a possibility that when the lost stand to face justice at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, they'll be indecent; and far from bullet proof, their bodies will be susceptible to severe injury; even death.

Netherworld Update: 782 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 47,195,264 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
December 25th, 2017, 02:08 PM
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● Matt 27:45 . . From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

What do you suppose went on during those three hours of thick darkness around the cross? Well; I'll tell you what went on because I'm not authorized to keep it a secret. The things that the Romans did to Christ were merely a warm up for the main event. When the darkness came; that's when God stepped into the ring; and the gloves came off.

When the darkness lifted, people saw a Jesus so beaten and bloodied beyond recognition that they could scarcely tell he was the same man.

● Isa 52:14 . .There were many who were appalled at him-- his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man, and his form marred beyond human likeness.

● Isa 53:10 . . But The Lord was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief

I have to wonder how ever a father could do something like that to his own son; especially do that for a world that wouldn't even appreciate that the injuries God personally inflicted upon His own son were for their benefit.

If God would do that kind of damage to His own son, what do you suppose He has in store for skeptics in this day and age who mock Jesus and make remarks about him? Well . .that's not too hard to figure out is it? Fair's fair. At the very least, they will be beaten and bloodied beyond recognition, same as he was.

NOTE: Mary Magdalena was in the audience that day and saw everything (John 19:28). Well; it's no mystery to me that she didn't recognize Christ right away in the cemetery seeing as how the last time she saw him he was an ashen corpse, beaten and bloodied beyond recognition, crowned with thorns (John 19:2), and virtually stark naked (John 19:23). The last person on earth that Mary expected to encounter out at the cemetery was her master all cleaned up, fully clothed, and alive and well because that was definitively not the way she remembered him.

Netherworld Update: 787 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 47,487,024 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
January 1st, 2018, 06:13 PM
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One of the most amazing guitarist I've ever watched is a man named Tommy Emmanuel. Other astonishing guitarists I could name are Craig Chaquico, and Stanley Jordan. Along with them is an electric bass player named Jaco Pastorius. They can be seen performing on YouTube and/or NetFlix.

Watching the astonishing abilities of those men makes me wonder sometimes if they aren't possessed. But really, their talent isn't supernatural; it's totally natural; coordinated by the three-pound lump of organic tissue housed within their bony little skulls.

People leave their organic bodies behind when they pass on; which strongly suggests to me that musicians like the above do not take their talent with them when they go because it's literally all in their heads, and in their nervous systems, and in their muscle memories; none of which they get to keep. Can you just imagine leaving this life able to produce difficult pieces of complicated music only to arrive on the other side unable to play even a simple little tune like Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Netherworld Update: 794 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 47,919,488 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
January 6th, 2018, 07:08 PM
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● Mark 12:30 . .You shall love The Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

One of the aspects of love is empathy; which can be roughly defined as emotional responses related to things like compassion, pity, and sympathy.

It isn't necessary to like God in order to comply with Mark 12:30, but it is necessary to feel sorry for Him; i.e. feel God's pain whenever He's upset about something; viz: to commiserate with God's sorrow.

I've had people actually tell me that God has no feelings; i.e. He doesn't get emotional-- He's above all that. Well; I have no clue how anyone can read the Bible and come to the conclusion that God has no feelings because even in the Bible's very first book we find God in remorse.

● Gen 6:5-6 . . Now The Lord observed the extent of the people's wickedness, and he saw that all their thoughts were consistently and totally evil. So The Lord was sorry he had ever made them. It broke his heart.

And although God didn't particularly like the people whom Moses led out of Egypt (Ex 32:9-10) at the same time, He commiserated with their suffering. (Isa 63:9)

For some people; it's asking too much for them to commiserate with God because they were born with defective amygdalae; which are portions of the brain that trigger emotional responses.

The thing is; just as there are people who can recognize humor while at the same time not be tickled by it, so there are people who can recognize suffering while at the same time not be moved by it. Those kinds of empathy-challenged people are often labeled callous, insensitive, and hard hearted. The really bad cases end up labeled monsters because the horrific things they are capable of doing to their fellow man are beyond humane comprehension.

Seeing as how non compliance with Mark 12:30 is worthy of the sum of all fears; then how are empathy-challenged people to have any hope of escaping it?

Well; the answer to that is of course the Xmas story.

● Luke 2:10-11 . . I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a savior

Webster's defines a savior as one who rescues. Everyone has seen examples of rescuers-- lifeguards, firemen, cops, emergency medical teams, Coast Guard units, snow patrols, and mountain rescue teams. Rescuers typically get people to safety who are facing imminent death and/or grave danger while utterly helpless to do anything about it.

● 1John 4:10 . . In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Netherworld Update: 799 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 48.221,248 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
January 10th, 2018, 12:41 PM
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Heaven's world is a society of caring people.

● Rom 13:10 . . Love does no harm to its neighbor.

● 1Cor 13:4 . . Love is patient

● 1Cor 13:4 . . Love is kind.

● 1Cor 13:4 . . Love doesn't seek the center of attention

● 1Cor 13:5 . . Love is not rude

● 1Cor 13:5 . . Love is affable

● 1Cor 13:5 . . Love keeps no record of wrongs.

● 1Cor 13:5 . . Love does not insist upon its own way

● 1Cor 13:7 . . Love always protects

Netherworld Update: 803 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 48,462,656 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
February 17th, 2018, 10:36 PM
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● Rev 20:11-15 . . I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

According to Rev 20:10, the lake of fire consists of brimstone; defined by Webster's as sulfur; which liquifies at around 239.38° F and boils at around 832.3° F.

Molten sulfur assumes a dark red color at around 392° F which, in all likelihood, enhances the lake's fiery appearance.

Q: What if people's execution in the brimstone isn't quick? I mean: the day of Adam's death began the moment he tasted the forbidden fruit; yet he continued to survive outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son Seth. (Gen 5:4)

A: No response.

Netherworld Update: 841 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 50,756,032 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
February 21st, 2018, 03:32 PM
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Q: At Matt 16:18, Jesus said: "Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." What is the meaning of that verse?

A: Basically it's saying that should one of Christ's true believing followers slip through a crack and end up in the wrong place, they will be able to stroll right on out of there like a tourist in Paris; likely guided on their journey by a celestial being, maybe similar to Peter's experience when he escaped jail in Acts 12:3-11.

I should point out that if any one particular church were the "my church" that Christ spoke of in Matt 16:18, then none of its members-- not one --would end up in hell; but I suspect that all churches, regardless of their denominational affiliation, expect to lose a number of their followers to an uncertain fate; which reminds me of a line from the movie AVATAR spoken by Colonel Miles Quaritch, played by Stephen Lang, that goes like this:

It is my job to keep you alive.
I will not succeed . . not with all of you.

Netherworld Update: 845 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 50,997,440 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
February 27th, 2018, 09:45 AM
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I once heard of a preacher asked by a young member of his congregation what he would have to do that's so bad he'd go in hell.

The preacher answered: You don't have to do anything exceptionally bad to go to hell; no, just bide your time and you'll wind up there without even trying because hell is the default.

Netherworld Update: 851 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,359,552 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
March 2nd, 2018, 12:25 PM
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There's been a quite a bit of flap in the media of late about a gender issue called mysogyny-- defined by Webster's as hatred of women --while very little flap about misandry; defined by Webster's as hatred of men.

In the end, it will be a man who casts angry women into the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15 and permanently ruins any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned man haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive control over their lives.

● John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

● Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed

FYI: Misandry and feminism aren't joined at the hip; viz: not all feminists hate men. Feminism is typically peaceful, objective, and political while misandry is typically malicious, emotional, and personal.

Netherworld Update: 854 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,540,608 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
March 8th, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Whether death in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15 is quick or slow; surely either way no one wants such a fate in their future. It would be better to avoid the lake altogether and take up residence in the new cosmos where everyone is immortal and enjoying life to the fullest in a world where there is neither war, nor crime, nor poverty, nor sickness.

The first death is mandatory, but not the second; there's a God-given way for people to get out of it that requires no merit on their part; only trust.

Netherworld Update: 860 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,902,720 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
March 12th, 2018, 08:07 AM
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Human existence consists of three parts: body, soul, and spirit (Gen 2:7, 1Thess 5:23 and Heb 4:12).

According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though the body is perishable by any means, the human soul is perishable only by divine means; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't simultaneous.

I have yet to encounter a passage in the Bible clearly, conclusively, and without ambiguity stating that the third part of human existence is any way perishable; either by the hand of man or by the hand of God.

Solomon believed that God reclaims the spirit upon the death of the body (Ecc 12:7) but Solomon didn't go on to say what God does with it.

Portions of the book of Ecclesiastes are often quoted as proof texts that there is no conscious existence in the afterlife; but Solomon's knowledge went no further than the grave; while Christ's knowledge goes well beyond the grave. It is far better to listen to Christ's teachings about the afterlife than Solomon's because Solomon's knowledge was incomplete; whereas Christ's knowledge is unlimited. (John 1:1-3, John 3:31-34, Col 2:3 and Col 2:9).

● Luke 11:31 . .The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

● Matt 17:5 . .This is My son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him.

Netherworld Update: 864 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 52,144,128 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
March 21st, 2018, 09:02 AM
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● Luke 16:24-26 . . Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame. But Abraham said: Between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.

It's easy to imagine that the "great chasm" is something like the Grand Canyon; but in reality the distance across can't be all that far otherwise Abraham and the rich man couldn't speak to one another. It seems likely to me that the chasm Abraham spoke of is a sort of crevasse, i.e. a bottomless fissure just wide enough to prevent pedestrians.

Anyway, point being: I'm heaven-bound; but I'm not so sure of many of my friends, relatives, and associates. If they fail to make the cut, I'm crossing my fingers that there will be some way that I can contact them in the afterlife after we've all passed on. It deeply saddens me to think there's a possibility I might not be allowed to see any of them ever again until the day of our final good-byes during the event planned for Rev 20:11-15.

Netherworld Update: 873 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 52,687,296 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
March 24th, 2018, 05:04 PM
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The apostle Paul expended quite a bit of time, energy, and writer's ink persuading Christ's believing followers that it's impossible to obtain heaven by means of compliance with the Ten Commandments. He didn't succeed; not with everyone. People still refused to believe him even though he claimed to have received his information straight from the horse's mouth.

● Gal 1:11-13 . . For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

However, though it is impossible to obtain heaven by means of compliance with the Ten Commandments, it is essential to comply with them in order to stay in heaven; not just the Ten only, but all of God's commandments. And one's compliance cannot be spotty, it has to be flawless.

So; what's the secret to this apparent Catch-22?

The secret is found in a promise that God made to His people back in the Old Testament.

● Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you: I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart; and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest pity for climbers who lose their grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever happened; silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate, and unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to proper compliance with the Ten Commandments; then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive would be shut out of heaven forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey is spot-on.

"I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they can never see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Don't be surprised at my statement that the uncivil must undergo a birth performed by the hand of God." (John 3:7)

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke, isn't optional; it's a must.

Netherworld Update: 876 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 52,868,352 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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WeberHome
July 17th, 2018, 07:57 PM
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During the 16th century, an Italian man named Niccolς Machiavelli wrote a political treatise titled: The Prince. It's main theme is how to get power, and once you've got it; how to keep it.

The book's instructions apply to all forms of power whether in business, in government, the military, the mafioso, school boards, investment banking, and even religion and church management practices.

You might be surprised at the number and variety of famous, respectable people who've been influenced by The Prince, not only in the past, but right up to the very present. Machiavelli's book, like Sun Tzu's book The Art Of War, is timeless.

However; there's a hitch. Machiavelli's ideas work best when employed by monsters, i.e. sociopaths: because it's necessary to sacrifice integrity and conscience to make them work; i.e. it's necessary to become cruel, inhumane, and thoroughly indifferent to the principles of trust, loyalty, and honesty.

The word "Machiavellian" is in Webster's defined as: marked by cunning, duplicity, or bad faith, i.e. not guided by, or showing a concern for, what is right in respect to social norms and acceptable behavior.

In other words: it's not what's right that counts with Machiavellian personalities; it's what works, viz: they practice a sort of moral flexibility.

The Bible describes heaven as a place of peace. I think it goes without saying that Machiavellian personalities are not allowed there. For one, they would make heaven unbearable for the decent folk. For another, they would not fit in. And for another, their way of life would just end up turning heaven into another Earth.

Netherworld Update: 991 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 59,808,8352 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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WeberHome
July 20th, 2018, 09:38 AM
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● Lev 24:10-12 . . And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp; and the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of The Lord, and cursed.

. . . And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan) And they put him in ward, that the mind of The Lord might be showed them.

That incident is a pretty good illustration of the current purpose of the fiery sector of hades. It's a place to hold people till the day when the mind of the Lord will be shown concerning them.

● Rev 20:13. . Death and hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

NOTE: Rev 20:13 is a record of things that the apostle John saw in the future; which means they're on the way, and only a matter of time now when they'll be seen in the present by everyone.

Netherworld Update: 994 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 59,989,888 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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WeberHome
July 29th, 2018, 05:29 PM
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The six days of creation are all bounded by evenings and mornings. The seventh day is not bounded, i.e. the seventh day is an on-going day; viz: God is still on sabbatical and hasn't created anything new for the current cosmos since the end of the sixth day.

So then, babies are nothing new; they're just multiples of the one soul that God created from dust per Gen 1:26-28 and Gen 2:7.

"In Adam, all die" (1Cor 15:22)

Well, all die because all were effected when God doomed Adam to die for eating the forbidden fruit; viz: it only stands to reason that if Adam was doomed to die, then of course the entire human race would automatically be doomed to die too, i.e. kill a tree's root, and all it's branches will wither. If each person were an individual creation from dust, then Adam's fall would've been his alone and no one else's.

The upside to this situation is that Adam's sin wasn't a sin unto hell. The prescribed consequence is simply mortality. (Gen 2:16-17, Gen 3:19)

Netherworld Update: 1003 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 60,533,056 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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Arthur Brain
July 29th, 2018, 05:36 PM
This thread sure would make good bedtime story material for children...

:Plain:

WeberHome
January 9th, 2019, 06:58 PM
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Former US President George H.W. Bush passed away November 30, 2018 at age 94. The media couldn't say enough good about Mr. Bush; day after day the papers, the television, the magazines, the op eds, and the radio talk shows were filled with accolades about how wonderful he was as a man, a father, a humanitarian, and a political leader.

Well; in my estimation, all that flap and rhetoric was little more than a red herring as I couldn't help but wonder what Almighty God thought of the man; and of the people who spoke and wrote so much about him.

● John 5:44 . . How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?

Netherworld Update: 1167 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 70,430,784 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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WeberHome
January 29th, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Jesus Christ had some pretty astounding capabilities. He could beef up withered limbs, cure cripples, cleanse leprosy, stop chronic bleeding, cure blindness, multiply food stuffs, calm storms, exorcise demons, restore dead people to life, and protect people from the wraith of God, etc.

In my estimation, a man who can do all that can just as easily do it in reverse; viz: wither people's limbs, cripple their legs, infect people with leprosy, make them bleed, cause them to go blind, cause famines, stir up storms, open people to demon possession and/or just outright assassinate them, and condemn them to hell; etc.

So I'm sometimes curious why Christ's enemies weren't more afraid of him.

Netherworld Update: 1,187 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 71,637,824 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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aikido7
January 29th, 2019, 04:40 PM
Christians as well as pagans have healing shrines where people from all over gather to be healed from infirmatives--inluding lameness, blindness, skin diseases and other maladies.

There is a pagan shrine in Turkey dedicated to the God Asclepius.
There is a Christian shrine in France dedicated to God, Mary and Jesus.

At the end of these places’ paths you can find cast-off wheelchairs, walkers and canes.

But you will never find empty coffins, piles of toupees or artificial limbs.

WeberHome
February 4th, 2019, 03:11 PM
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I was brought up a Catholic youth. The extent of my Catechism classes was pretty elementary. They didn't inform me that Jesus Christ was returning some day to rule the world, so it wasn't till I was around 24 years old when a Protestant man asked me if I was ready for the Lord coming back.

Well; at first the man's question puzzled me because i wasn't aware of that aspect of the Earth's future. But then right away I became alarmed because I instinctively knew that if I had to face Christ, the outcome would not be favorable as I had a lot to answer for. I learned later that my instincts were right.

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt 13:40-42)

Netherworld Update: 1,193 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 71,999,936 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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WeberHome
May 17th, 2019, 07:52 PM
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● Num 16:28-35 . .Then Moses said, "This is how you will know that The Lord has sent me to do all these things and that it was not my idea: If these men die a natural death and experience only what usually happens to men, then The Lord has not sent me. But if The Lord brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know that these men have treated The Lord with contempt.

. . . As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions. They went down alive into the grave, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. At their screams, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, "The earth is going to swallow us too!"

That is one of the most frightening scenes ever depicted in the Old Testament.

Netherworld Update: 1,295 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 78,155,840 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

NOTE: The entire global sky contains roughly six thousand stars visible to the naked eye. There's more than that out there of course, but not all are discernable as points of light without optics. However, we can't see all six thousand stars at once; only the ones that come out at night. So then; the most we can see in one night is, at most, somewhere around three thousand stars.

If we divide my latest update by 3,000 we get something like twenty-six thousand and fifty-two night skies of people who've passed on to the fiery nether regions since I began keeping track. That many night skies adds up to around seventy-one and a third years.
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WeberHome
May 22nd, 2019, 10:50 AM
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● Matt 25:41 . .Then he will say to those on his left: Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

The Greek word for "angels" is aggelos (ang'-el-os) which is one of the Bible's many ambiguous words. It means messenger; and it isn't limited to spirit beings.

For example at Matt 11:10 it refers to John the Baptist. At Luke 7:24 it refers to John's disciples. At Acts 7:53 and Gal 3:19 it refers to divine apparitions in the form of voices, fire, smoke, earthquakes, and a human likeness. At Jas 2:25 it refers to the spies that hid out at Rahab's home. At Rev 1:20-Rev 3:14, the word aggelos refers to high-ranking church officers.

So, we have in view at Matt 25:41 not only spirit beings, but quite possibly also human beings who serve as messengers for the Devil, e.g. preachers, ministers, Sunday school teachers, deacons, missionaries, evangelists, cultists, etc; whose version of Christianity is a doctored version rather than Christ's.

● 2Cor 11:13-15 . . For such are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

I have a personal interest in this matter. My eldest brother is a Friar; he and I are both now in our mid to late seventies. My brother has been spending his entire adult life obedient to Rome and propagating Catholicism. If it turns out that version of Christianity differs from Christ's, then my brother won't make it to safety when he passes on. His life's work will go up in smoke, and he'll be branded forever as one of the Devil's angels. That possibility does not set well with me.

Netherworld Update: 1,300 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 78,457,600 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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Aimiel
May 23rd, 2019, 02:50 AM
I have a personal interest in this matter. My eldest brother is a Friar; he and I are both now in our mid to late seventies. My brother has been spending his entire adult life obedient to Rome and propagating Catholicism. If it turns out that version of Christianity differs from Christ's, then my brother won't make it to safety when he passes on. His life's work will go up in smoke, and he'll be branded forever as one of the Devil's angels. That possibility does not set well with me.Fear not! God isn't about religion. He doesn't take attendance. He doesn't judge as men do. There is not one single denomination or religion which is 100% correct. God looks upon the thoughts and intents of the heart. :thumb:

WeberHome
June 15th, 2019, 08:57 PM
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● Luke 23:39-40 . . One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us! But the other criminal rebuked him. Don't you fear God, he said, since you are under the same sentence?

There's a humorous incident depicted in Dante's Inferno where these two guys are having an argument over which deserves to be in Hell more than the other. But when both are in Hell, it matters little who deserves to be there more. Having a holier-than-thou-attitude in Hell is pretty much going to get you nowhere.

Netherworld Update: 1,324 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 79,906,048 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

NOTE: The average thickness of a human hair is around .1 mm. So 79,906,048 human hairs laid side by side would spread out to something like 7,990,604 mm, equaling 314,591 inches, or 26,216 feet: almost five miles.

These days when the Federal debt is in the trillions, a million seems trifle; but nevertheless, a thousand thousands is still a pretty large amount. Were someone to budget their expenses to $600 a week, they could live off a million dollars for 32 years. They could live off 79,906,048 dollars for 2,561 years.
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WeberHome
July 4th, 2019, 09:52 PM
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There's a variety of negative opinions about God all across the internet. Some say He's cruel, sadistic, heartless, unjust, unfair, unkind, a despotic bully, a monster, sexist, and just a general all around jerk.

Well, it matters little whether He's all that, and more. It's futile to criticize God and rake Him across the coals because God can't be stopped no matter what His faults.

There's little to be gained by a man on the gallows with a noose already around his neck turning to the executioner and saying: Your breath stinks. Well; maybe it really does stink but the condemned man is still going to get his neck stretched regardless. He will have the satisfaction of getting in a parting shot but pointing out the executioner's faults won't stop him from doing his job.

"Who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it: Why did you make me like this? (Rom 9:20)

Netherworld Update: 1,343 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 81,052,736 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
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Guyver
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 PM
No. It is proper to criticize that which is called God that is not really him.