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James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 03:23 PM
So I have been revising my idea for a new sect and would love some help revising it and incorporating ideas. You do not have to believe in what I say, I would just like help revising it, organizing the idea, and setting it in stone.

The main tenets are:
1. The Universe was made perfectly imperfect by God so that we can build a version of His Kingdom here.
2. That Math and Science are the true word of God
3. The Bible is to be used to teach us how to use His word and not take everything in it verbatim as it is written by many who tend to contradict each other.
4. God purposely made the universe imperfect so we can fix and build His Kingdom here as best we can to get closer with Him.
5. Jesus and His death is what gave us light of what we should be like to build/ fix the universe and only though Him can we achieve perfection.
6. We can never achieve the perfection we strive to, yet we still do so out of love and respect to the Lord knowing that only through Him we can achieve the perfection we strive towards.
7. No religion is more right than the other and we can interact with each other as long as it helps aid in the blueprint the Lord left to us.
8. The explanation for different religions, in the eyes of Strivonism, is that the Lord purposely came to the different peoples of the world differently just to see if we can cooperate with each other even if we differ on deep things.
9. God does not get directly involved but instead gives us hints to what we need to do.

Thanks for your help :)

Wick Stick
October 29th, 2015, 04:21 PM
Strivonism? I assume there is some meaning.

Second, a thought for you: Perhaps creation is still ongoing, we are all participants, and the end product will be perfect.

Jarrod

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 04:34 PM
Strivonism? I assume there is some meaning.

Second, a thought for you: Perhaps creation is still ongoing, we are all participants, and the end product will be perfect.

Jarrod

Yeah Strivonism. As in we strive to build/fix the perfectly imperfect Universe :) Creation, at least I believe was set up long ago by the Lord and he knocked the dominoes of life over

Huckleberry
October 29th, 2015, 04:46 PM
You're still lacking any claim to special revelation that would make your claims religious claims, rather than simply irrational ones.

You're also lacking any demonstrable evidence.

The scripture Christianity relies upon claims the direct revelation of God and offers evidence for it. I don't think that's an unreasonable standard for anything calling itself a religion.

Can you offer anything of that nature? Anything to justify your naming this belief system of yours a religion?

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 04:59 PM
You're still lacking any claim to special revelation that would make your claims religious claims, rather than simply irrational ones.

You're also lacking any demonstrable evidence.

The scripture Christianity relies upon claims the direct revelation of God and offers evidence for it. I don't think that's an unreasonable standard for anything calling itself a religion.

Can you offer anything of that nature? Anything to justify your naming this belief system of yours a religion?

Yeah. The fact there are bad things in this world which I cannot accept the Lord doing if He was directly involved. The fact we as a species have done great things using Math and Science. Those things we have accomplished are due to the hints He provides us.

Huckleberry
October 29th, 2015, 05:11 PM
Yeah. The fact there are bad things in this world which I cannot accept the Lord doing if He was directly involved. The fact we as a species have done great things using Math and Science. Those things we have accomplished are due to the hints He provides us.

You keep claiming things like this with no effort whatsoever to establish them. What evidence do you have for this?

If you can provide none, then these claims of yours only establish that you're either delusional, lying or making things up for fun. :idunno:

A Christian can point to scripture where, among other things, there are mountains of documented testimony by direct eyewitnesses. Christianity even has this thing called "apologetics" that you may have heard of. What have you got?

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 05:18 PM
You keep claiming things like this with no effort whatsoever to establish them. What evidence do you have for this?

If you can provide none, then these claims of yours only establish that you're either delusional, lying or making things up for fun. :idunno:

A Christian can point to scripture where, among other things, there are mountains of documented testimony by direct eyewitnesses. Christianity even has this thing called "apologetics" that you may have heard of. What have you got?

The Lord works in mysterious ways. Whether we know them as his hints or not, he still gives them to us. A lot of scientists and scholars have claimed God as their inspiration for how they accomplished/started what they did. Have you every seen life up close under a microscope? It is clear that everything was designed to be a certain way from the beginning.

Huckleberry
October 29th, 2015, 05:24 PM
The Lord works in mysterious ways. Whether we know them as his hints or not, he still gives them to us. A lot of scientists and scholars have claimed God as their inspiration for how they accomplished/started what they did. Have you every seen life up close under a microscope? It is clear that everything was designed to be a certain way from the beginning.
This does not in any way support any claim you made in the opening post as special revelation.

It doesn't even attempt to support anything you've said absent special revelation.

You make claims and refuse to support them. So, again, you're either delusional, lying or making things up for fun. :idunno:

Angel4Truth
October 29th, 2015, 05:26 PM
So I have been revising my idea for a new sect and would love some help revising it and incorporating ideas. You do not have to believe in what I say, I would just like help revising it, organizing the idea, and setting it in stone.

The main tenets are:
1. The Universe was made perfectly imperfect by God so that we can build a version of His Kingdom here.
2. That Math and Science are the true word of God
3. The Bible is to be used to teach us how to use His word and not take everything in it verbatim as it is written by many who tend to contradict each other.
4. God purposely made the universe imperfect so we can fix and build His Kingdom here as best we can to get closer with Him.
5. Jesus and His death is what gave us light of what we should be like to build/ fix the universe and only though Him can we achieve perfection.
6. We can never achieve the perfection we strive to, yet we still do so out of love and respect to the Lord knowing that only through Him we can achieve the perfection we strive towards.
7. No religion is more right than the other and we can interact with each other as long as it helps aid in the blueprint the Lord left to us.
8. The explanation for different religions, in the eyes of Strivonism, is that the Lord purposely came to the different peoples of the world differently just to see if we can cooperate with each other even if we differ on deep things.
9. God does not get directly involved but instead gives us hints to what we need to do.

Thanks for your help :)

Why do you think those who have the truth, would be willing to help you perpetrate and devise a lie?

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 05:28 PM
This does not in any way support any claim you made in the opening post as special revelation.

It doesn't even attempt to support anything you've said absent special revelation.

You make claims and refuse to support them. So, again, you're either delusional, lying or making things up for fun. :idunno:

What "special revelation" do you want me to have? Want me to be like "I got this idea when i saw Jesus on a unicycle pass me on the way to get a shark out of a tree." You will need to be specific

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 05:29 PM
Why do you think those who have the truth, would be willing to help you perpetrate and devise a lie?

To generate thought instead of blindly following. Plus as a Christian and as fundamentalist as you are, are you not supposed to help and be a good Samaritan?

Angel4Truth
October 29th, 2015, 05:30 PM
What "special revelation" do you want me to have? Want me to be like "I got this idea when i saw Jesus on a unicycle pass me on the way to get a shark out of a tree." You will need to be specific

yeah something like that. Something that shows in at least some way that the bible and christianity as it is, is wrong.

You know, like ole joe smith (mormonism) gave a new revelation with the book of mormon, claiming the bible is wrong and that an angel gave him gold plates with new revelations.

So what is your revelation claim?

Huckleberry
October 29th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Plus as a Christian and as fundamentalist as you are, are you not supposed to help and be a good Samaritan?:think:

I think we can narrow the possibilities down to "making things up for fun" or "a very badly performed Poe".

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 05:35 PM
yeah something like that. Something that shows in at least some way that the bible and christianity as it is, is wrong.

You know, like ole joe smith (mormonism) gave a new revelation with the book of mormon, claiming the bible is wrong and that an angel gave him gold plates with new revelations.

So what is your revelation claim?

I do believe God did come to me with this idea when I was recovering from nearly dying. It is wrong as people who blindly follow it are bigoted and cruel to others. It leads to not accepting anyone else's ideas and damning everyone who does not believe like them to Hell. It leads to ignorance and a lack of free thought or intuition on the Lord's word. Hating people who sin instead of the sin itself.

Angel4Truth
October 29th, 2015, 05:44 PM
To generate thought instead of blindly following. Plus as a Christian and as fundamentalist as you are, are you not supposed to help and be a good Samaritan?

Here is your help:

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2 Timothy 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Youre welcome.

Here is the gospel and how to get saved:

1 Corinthians. 15:1-4

"Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . "

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

then you will be given the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13-14: “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

1 Corinthians 2:9-13: “‘Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.’ But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. ... We have received ... the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.”

James Shepard
October 29th, 2015, 05:49 PM
Here is your help:

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2 Timothy 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Youre welcome.

Here is the gospel and how to get saved:

1 Corinthians. 15:1-4

"Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . "

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

then you will be given the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13-14: “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

1 Corinthians 2:9-13: “‘Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.’ But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. ... We have received ... the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.”

Uh huh. I never said that the "Angel" taught me something contradictory. In fact, I try to follow it as best as I can. I just have a much higher emphasis on math and science being the true proof of the Lord

George Affleck
October 29th, 2015, 08:48 PM
"No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically (or logically)" or "no statements are true unless they can be shown empirically to be true" cannot themselves be proven scientifically, logically, or empirically. -Keith Ward

George Affleck
October 29th, 2015, 09:09 PM
C.S. Lewis and Scientism (https://youtu.be/FPeyJvXU68k)

Jamie Gigliotti
October 30th, 2015, 08:49 AM
So I have been revising my idea for a new sect and would love some help revising it and incorporating ideas. You do not have to believe in what I say, I would just like help revising it, organizing the idea, and setting it in stone.

The main tenets are:
1. The Universe was made perfectly imperfect by God so that we can build a version of His Kingdom here.
2. That Math and Science are the true word of God
3. The Bible is to be used to teach us how to use His word and not take everything in it verbatim as it is written by many who tend to contradict each other.
4. God purposely made the universe imperfect so we can fix and build His Kingdom here as best we can to get closer with Him.
5. Jesus and His death is what gave us light of what we should be like to build/ fix the universe and only though Him can we achieve perfection.
6. We can never achieve the perfection we strive to, yet we still do so out of love and respect to the Lord knowing that only through Him we can achieve the perfection we strive towards.
7. No religion is more right than the other and we can interact with each other as long as it helps aid in the blueprint the Lord left to us.
8. The explanation for different religions, in the eyes of Strivonism, is that the Lord purposely came to the different peoples of the world differently just to see if we can cooperate with each other even if we differ on deep things.
9. God does not get directly involved but instead gives us hints to what we need to do.

Thanks for your help :)

How will people hear from God in your religion?
Why did God create us in your religion?
Is God's power limited in your religion?

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2015, 10:53 PM
Yeah. The fact there are bad things in this world which I cannot accept the Lord doing if He was directly involved. The fact we as a species have done great things using Math and Science. Those things we have accomplished are due to the hints He provides us.
You are somewhat astray. Greed is the problem. It is of man, not God. It is bound to this earth as all sin is. The end is quite real and perfection will be then, if not sooner by the peaceable unity through the selfless peaceful teachings of the Christ. Real advancement will be achieved through peaceable unity. Mathematics are very telling and true. Some forms of science are little more than highly manipulated opinion for reasons of greed of some sort.

You say new sect, and it bothers me. Are you seeking monetary gain? Don't. That's the biggest tip I could give you. For your attempts to be in vain because of idol worship is equivalent to blasphemy. Tread carefully and do things for the only right reason; God. Again, unity of righteous, peaceful, true Faith, verifiable by scripture and fruits, and the conscience of rightly guided through Christ under GOD.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2015, 11:09 PM
Here is your help:

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2 Timothy 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Youre welcome.

Here is the gospel and how to get saved:

1 Corinthians. 15:1-4

"Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . "

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

then you will be given the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13-14: “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.”

1 Corinthians 2:9-13: “‘Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.’ But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. ... We have received ... the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.”
To trust fully and follow accordingly without sin of the flesh is still something I seam to struggle with. The seal is a nice concept as it will seal out sin and divide the righteous from those attached to wants. Trust and Faith I have, patience I have, perseverance is my self made struggle. So technically it is lack of full trust in the word of God in all forms. This feels damning, but I know of the grace and mercy of God, his plan will come to fruition.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2015, 11:10 PM
"No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically (or logically)" or "no statements are true unless they can be shown empirically to be true" cannot themselves be proven scientifically, logically, or empirically. -Keith Ward
Not true.

George Affleck
November 1st, 2015, 11:30 PM
Not true.

Can you please explain your position?
Thanks.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2015, 11:41 PM
Can you please explain your position?
Thanks.
Knowledge, and henceforth truth isn't limited to things that are observable to third parties.
Personal experience is indeed knowledge, yet not strictly reproducible for the observation of a third party. Science is a great tool for deciphering our existence. But to say that all that is real is proven to be such is a false statement.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2015, 11:42 PM
Thanks, sorry, don't mean to come off as a prick.
Peace.

George Affleck
November 2nd, 2015, 12:00 AM
Knowledge, and henceforth truth isn't limited to things that are observable to third parties.
Personal experience is indeed knowledge, yet not strictly reproducible for the observation of a third party. Science is a great tool for deciphering our existence. But to say that all that is real is proven to be such is a false statement.

Nothing you say here is incorrect but I suggest that you have simply misinterpreted my post.
I will rephrase it to make it a little more readable.

Here is the original:


"No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically (or logically)" or "no statements are true unless they can be shown empirically to be true" cannot themselves be proven scientifically, logically, or empirically. -Keith Ward

Here is what I could have said instead of directly quoting Keith Ward:


Keith Ward has made an observation about what evolutionists take for granted about scientific proof.
Evolutionists will often make the comments:
"No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically (or logically)"
or
"No statements are true unless they can be shown empirically to be true"
Mr. Ward has pointed out that these very statements, made by evolutionists cannot, themselves, be proven scientifically, logically, or empirically.
The logical conclusion is that these statements made by evolutionists are untrue!

I hope this makes it a little clearer.

journey
November 2nd, 2015, 12:20 AM
To the OP: NO, I will not help you fabricate a new religion based on lies. You've already been given some great advice. Start with your own Salvation. You can find everything you need in the TRUTH - God's Word - the Holy Bible.