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Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 08:01 AM
These are the benefits of being a Gospel believing Christian.

What does the Catholic church offer? What are the benefits of Calvinism? What does any religion offer? Try, NOTHING. There are no benefits in religion.

Only in the Gospel do we receive all of the gifts of God, and then besides all of the above we receive the blessed Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe and have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing.

The Gospel is all that we need.

JUSTIFICATION: We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfills God's Holy Law for us, Romans 3:26, In our name and on our behalf Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

RECONCILIATION: We are reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not just us, but the whole world. God accepts the doing and the dying of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. This is how we are reconciled unto God.

SANCTIFICATION: We are sanctified by being "In Christ". God sees all that have faith in Christ and his Gospel "In Christ". We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. It is finished, we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

REDEMPTION: We who are Christians have been bought, 1 Corinthians 6:20. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, which condemns us to hell. "He who knew no sin, became sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

GLORIFICATION: Glorification is the results of being justfied, reconciled, sanctified and redeemed. "We will be like him, for we shall see him as he is". When Christ, WHO IS OUR Life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with him in Glory, Colossians 3:4.

WonderfulLordJesus
October 22nd, 2015, 08:30 AM
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Hebrews 10:14 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Romans 8

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
...
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 08:38 AM
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Hebrews 10:14 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Romans 8

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
...
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The benefits of being a Gospel believing Christian are uncomprehendable.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done is ours by faith. Jesus is God's great free gift for all who believe in him.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2015, 08:59 AM
These are the benefits of being a Gospel believing Christian.

What does the Catholic church offer? What are the benefits of Calvinism? What does any religion offer? Try, NOTHING. There are no benefits in religion.

Only in the Gospel do we receive all of the gifts of God, and then besides all of the above we receive the blessed Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe and have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing.

The Gospel is all that we need.

JUSTIFICATION: We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfills God's Holy Law for us, Romans 3:26, In our name and on our behalf Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

RECONCILIATION: We are reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not just us, but the whole world. God accepts the doing and the dying of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. This is how we are reconciled unto God.

SANCTIFICATION: We are sanctified by being "In Christ". God sees all that have faith in Christ and his Gospel "In Christ". We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. It is finished, we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

REDEMPTION: We who are Christians have been bought, 1 Corinthians 6:20. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, which condemns us to hell. "He who knew no sin, became sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

GLORIFICATION: Glorification is the results of being justfied, reconciled, sanctified and redeemed. "We will be like him, for we shall see him as he is". When Christ, WHO IS OUR Life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with him in Glory, Colossians 3:4.

You dont believe the Gospel, you dont believe Christ's Death saved them He died for, making His death a failure to save !

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 09:29 AM
RECONCILIATION: We are reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not just us, but the whole world.


Satan and the sinning angels are also reconciled to the Father by Jesus' blood.


For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Colossians 1:19-20 NKJV)

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 11:47 AM
Satan and the sinning angels are also reconciled to the Father by Jesus' blood.


For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Colossians 1:19-20 NKJV)

There is nothing in the Bible about Satan being redeemed.

The last thing that we hear about Satan is that he and his demons are cast into the lake of fire.

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 12:34 PM
The last thing that we hear about Satan is that he and his demons are cast into the lake of fire.


The lake of fire does what to a spirit being?

The demons have not yet been judged.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 22nd, 2015, 12:35 PM
The lake of fire does what to a spirit being?

The demons have not yet been judged.

You're not making any sense?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 22nd, 2015, 12:37 PM
There is nothing in the Bible about Satan being redeemed.

The last thing that we hear about Satan is that he and his demons are cast into the lake of fire.

True. Satan can't/won't be saved. That's ridiculous.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 12:41 PM
The lake of fire does what to a spirit being?

The demons have not yet been judged.


Satan was a beautiful angel in heaven. He is physical as well as spiritual.

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 02:42 PM
He is physical as well as spiritual.


Physical in what way?

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 02:43 PM
True. Satan can't/won't be saved. That's ridiculous.


Reconciliation is not salvation.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2015, 04:29 PM
Reconciliation is not salvation.

Yes it is! To be reconciled to God is to be put into a right relationship with Him and accepted into His Favour ! It's that is not Salvation then nothing is!

Bright Raven
October 22nd, 2015, 04:31 PM
Yes it is! To be reconciled to God is to be put into a right relationship with Him and accepted into His Favour ! It's that is not Salvation then nothing is!

Have you accepted the salvation he has provided for you?

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 11:35 AM
Have you accepted the salvation he has provided for you?

No, he thinks that salvation has been imposed upon him.

This means that God is responsible for his sins.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 11:59 AM
No, he thinks that salvation has been imposed upon him.

This means that God is responsible for his sins.

You teach that God punishes them who are righteous, who have obeyed His Law, who has done this Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Those Christ Lived and died for have done those Commandments ! So explain how they can be condemned in unbelief ? Jn 3:18 !

Robert Pate
October 24th, 2015, 10:28 AM
You teach that God punishes them who are righteous, who have obeyed His Law, who has done this Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Those Christ Lived and died for have done those Commandments ! So explain how they can be condemned in unbelief ? Jn 3:18 !


Your problem is with the Bible.

John 3:18, plainly says... "He that does not believe is condemned already".

Maybe you should take it up with John.

beloved57
October 24th, 2015, 10:35 AM
Your problem is with the Bible.

John 3:18, plainly says... "He that does not believe is condemned already".

Maybe you should take it up with John.

Those Christ lived and died for are not unbelievers, they have already obeyed God law perfectly, they can't be condemned!They are Righteous Rom 5:19, how can anyone made righteous before God be a unbeliever?

Robert Pate
October 25th, 2015, 09:03 AM
Those Christ lived and died for are not unbelievers, they have already obeyed God law perfectly, they can't be condemned!They are Righteous Rom 5:19, how can anyone made righteous before God be a unbeliever?


The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus, as God's new Adam provides righteousness for all, Romans 5:19.

This righteousness is ours by faith.

beloved57
October 25th, 2015, 09:26 AM
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus, as God's new Adam provides righteousness for all, Romans 5:19.

This righteousness is ours by faith.

You teach that God is unjust and will punish the Righteous in Hell for their sins!

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 02:26 PM
These are the benefits of being a Gospel believing Christian.

What does the Catholic church offer? What are the benefits of Calvinism? What does any religion offer? Try, NOTHING. There are no benefits in religion.

Only in the Gospel do we receive all of the gifts of God, and then besides all of the above we receive the blessed Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe and have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing.

The Gospel is all that we need.

JUSTIFICATION: We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfills God's Holy Law for us, Romans 3:26, In our name and on our behalf Jesus atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

RECONCILIATION: We are reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not just us, but the whole world. God accepts the doing and the dying of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. This is how we are reconciled unto God.

SANCTIFICATION: We are sanctified by being "In Christ". God sees all that have faith in Christ and his Gospel "In Christ". We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. It is finished, we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

REDEMPTION: We who are Christians have been bought, 1 Corinthians 6:20. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, which condemns us to hell. "He who knew no sin, became sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

GLORIFICATION: Glorification is the results of being justfied, reconciled, sanctified and redeemed. "We will be like him, for we shall see him as he is". When Christ, WHO IS OUR Life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with him in Glory, Colossians 3:4.
Lol I go for months at a time without checking this board, only to come back to Pate making the SAME lame daily post he always has about how he's the only true Christian, with the same people giving the same "FALSE TEACHER" responses.

Get a life, Robert.. You're no wiser than every other fool who's ever picked up a Bible and arrogantly thought he was the only Christian one who could understand it.

If you'd spend half the time looking for Truth as you spend spewing ignorance you might've had a singular clue by now.

And to the "Calvinists" repeating the same "FALSE TEACHER!" replies on every one of his threads.. I'm a believer in reformed theology myself, but give it a rest. He's just looking for an argument, and a chance to prove (to himself) how righteously wise he is, and how ignorant everyone else is.. The only "Calvinist" Robert knows is the straw man of his own making. He wouldn't recognize proper reformed theology (the Truth, as stated by Scriptures) if it smacked him across his hateful ignorance spewing mouth..

Robert, YOU'RE the one who puts your theology & religion (though you're too blind to recognize it as such) above Christ.. The very thing you accuse us of. We use our theology to better know Christ, you use yours to tear down true believers. All because you're not humble enough to look at YOURSELF and realize you're wrong.

Just ask yourself, when you stand before Christ, do you honestly have yourself convinced he's gonna go doctrine for doctrine to check that you believe properly? This is the way you live and speak, as if THAT'S what the judgement is all about.. He'll be judging your heart, and He'll see the complete lack of love for every believer but yourself. I would pray that He would do a major work in yours before that day, because then it'll be too late..

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Lol.. I laugh a little to myself every time I see a new thread by this guy. Pate is the ultimate theology troll.

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 02:31 PM
Satan and the sinning angels are also reconciled to the Father by Jesus' blood.


For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Colossians 1:19-20 NKJV)
This is taking universalism to a new extreme..

Robert Pate
October 26th, 2015, 02:51 PM
This is taking universalism to a new extreme..


Why don't you post what you believe so we can take a shot at it?

jamie
October 26th, 2015, 03:39 PM
This is taking universalism to a new extreme..


Universalism is about salvation. Paul was speaking of reconciliation.

Robert Pate
October 26th, 2015, 05:11 PM
Lol I go for months at a time without checking this board, only to come back to Pate making the SAME lame daily post he always has about how he's the only true Christian, with the same people giving the same "FALSE TEACHER" responses.

Get a life, Robert.. You're no wiser than every other fool who's ever picked up a Bible and arrogantly thought he was the only Christian one who could understand it.

If you'd spend half the time looking for Truth as you spend spewing ignorance you might've had a singular clue by now.

And to the "Calvinists" repeating the same "FALSE TEACHER!" replies on every one of his threads.. I'm a believer in reformed theology myself, but give it a rest. He's just looking for an argument, and a chance to prove (to himself) how righteously wise he is, and how ignorant everyone else is.. The only "Calvinist" Robert knows is the straw man of his own making. He wouldn't recognize proper reformed theology (the Truth, as stated by Scriptures) if it smacked him across his hateful ignorance spewing mouth..

Robert, YOU'RE the one who puts your theology & religion (though you're too blind to recognize it as such) above Christ.. The very thing you accuse us of. We use our theology to better know Christ, you use yours to tear down true believers. All because you're not humble enough to look at YOURSELF and realize you're wrong.

Just ask yourself, when you stand before Christ, do you honestly have yourself convinced he's gonna go doctrine for doctrine to check that you believe properly? This is the way you live and speak, as if THAT'S what the judgement is all about.. He'll be judging your heart, and He'll see the complete lack of love for every believer but yourself. I would pray that He would do a major work in yours before that day, because then it'll be too late..

The only thing that is going to stand in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will disappear in a puff of smoke.

fishrovmen
October 26th, 2015, 05:20 PM
Lol.. I laugh a little to myself every time I see a new thread by this guy. Pate is the ultimate theology troll.
"new"? thread? It's the same stuff almost every thread. He just changes the word order a little and throws in some scripture references that have little to nothing to do with his rants. Meanwhile, his own beliefs are unscriptural and contradictory and vary from thread to thread.

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 05:48 PM
Universalism is about salvation. Paul was speaking of reconciliation.
..and salvation and reconciliation have nothing to do with each other?

beloved57
October 26th, 2015, 06:03 PM
The only thing that is going to stand in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will disappear in a puff of smoke.

You reject the Gospel of Christ and teach that those He Lived and died for shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief, whereas they have obeyed Gods Law Perfectly already ! Rom 2:13 !

jamie
October 26th, 2015, 07:08 PM
..and salvation and reconciliation have nothing to do with each other?

Reconciliation is the basis for salvation for those God calls.

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 07:10 PM
The only thing that is going to stand in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will disappear in a puff of smoke.
Exactly.. And my point is, you show a lot of arrogant, argumentative, self-righteous, downright hateful behavior for someone who is in Christ, and has been born again.

I'm not going back and forth with someone who will say anything for the sake of argument. You're not looking to learn, or even discuss.. You're looking for an argument. The first conversation I had with you I was simply trying to get you to see where you're getting things wrong, the things that have you believing that it's you vs. the rest of Christianity, and was offering to help you find a biblical church in your area. You shot back (as always) hateful nonsense about doctrines of demons. I'm not doing that..

I'll save you the time.. It goes like this evey time..

Pate: What are your beliefs? How are we saved?

Me: I'm saved only because Christ died for my sins and by His grace, through faith, which is also a gift of His grace, I've been forgiven.

Pate: False. We're saved because God the Father sent His son as a sacrifice and by believing I am not rendered guilty for my sins.

Me: Yeah, I know, you're describing the same thing here, you're just using different words.. I can explain how you're misunderstanding my beliefs. I can help you find a gospel-centered church in your area if you want..

Pate: False. I am justified because I am in Christ through faith because my superlative scripture reading (and quoting) abilities gave me the insight every other human lacks to see what is needed to be saved. You are not saved. Churches are for false Christians! (something about Catholics)! (something about Calvinists)!

Me: But you're misunderst..

Pate: ANTINOMIAN! You must obey!!

Me: But..

Pate: LEGALIST! Salvation by works! False Gospel!!

jamie
October 26th, 2015, 07:12 PM
The only thing that is going to stand in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will disappear in a puff of smoke.


Is that what Jesus said?

And if anyone hears My words and does not believe I do not judge him, for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
(John 12:47 NKJV)

Grosnick Marowbe
October 26th, 2015, 07:14 PM
You reject the Gospel of Christ and teach that those He Lived and died for shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief, whereas they have obeyed Gods Law Perfectly already ! Rom 2:13 !

Is unbelief a work? You've said in the past that, "Faith is a
work." So, is unbelief (having no faith) a work?

patrick jane
October 26th, 2015, 07:22 PM
Is unbelief a work? You've said in the past that, "Faith is a
work." So, is unbelief (having no faith) a work?

Read the Bible and use google - from gotquestions.com

Question: "How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?"

Answer: Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)


To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!

desiringGod7
October 26th, 2015, 07:28 PM
"new"? thread? It's the same stuff almost every thread. He just changes the word order a little and throws in some scripture references that have little to nothing to do with his rants. Meanwhile, his own beliefs are unscriptural and contradictory and vary from thread to thread.
Exactly. When I first joined and didn't know any better I tried to discuss it with him and show him where he was getting things wrong but he only wanted to argue.

It just humors me to see the threads now, though a part of me still want to reach him. He just isn't willing to listen to anyone who disagrees with him.

No matter what you say, no matter which side of an issue you're on, all he wants is to whip out a verse of scripture, to prove how wrong you are, and that's his sole motivation. It'll never get him anywhere.

beloved57
October 26th, 2015, 07:37 PM
Read the Bible and use google - from gotquestions.com

Question: "How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?"

Answer: Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)


To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!

False teaching, for they who Christ lived and died for are reconciled to God while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

beloved57
October 26th, 2015, 07:39 PM
Reconciliation is the basis for salvation for those God calls.

Invalid comment!

Robert Pate
October 27th, 2015, 08:24 AM
Exactly.. And my point is, you show a lot of arrogant, argumentative, self-righteous, downright hateful behavior for someone who is in Christ, and has been born again.

I'm not going back and forth with someone who will say anything for the sake of argument. You're not looking to learn, or even discuss.. You're looking for an argument. The first conversation I had with you I was simply trying to get you to see where you're getting things wrong, the things that have you believing that it's you vs. the rest of Christianity, and was offering to help you find a biblical church in your area. You shot back (as always) hateful nonsense about doctrines of demons. I'm not doing that..

I'll save you the time.. It goes like this evey time..

Pate: What are your beliefs? How are we saved?

Me: I'm saved only because Christ died for my sins and by His grace, through faith, which is also a gift of His grace, I've been forgiven.

Pate: False. We're saved because God the Father sent His son as a sacrifice and by believing I am not rendered guilty for my sins.

Me: Yeah, I know, you're describing the same thing here, you're just using different words.. I can explain how you're misunderstanding my beliefs. I can help you find a gospel-centered church in your area if you want..

Pate: False. I am justified because I am in Christ through faith because my superlative scripture reading (and quoting) abilities gave me the insight every other human lacks to see what is needed to be saved. You are not saved. Churches are for false Christians! (something about Catholics)! (something about Calvinists)!

Me: But you're misunderst..

Pate: ANTINOMIAN! You must obey!!

Me: But..

Pate: LEGALIST! Salvation by works! False Gospel!!


I think that what you are really desiring is religion.

The Gospel and justification by faith is just to simple for you.

beloved57
October 27th, 2015, 10:35 AM
I think that what you are really desiring is religion.

The Gospel and justification by faith is just to simple for you.

You teach Justification by works, by what a person does!

Robert Pate
October 27th, 2015, 11:11 AM
You teach Justification by works, by what a person does!

If you don't believe on Jesus you will perish, John 3:18.

Even if you think that you have been predestinated.

beloved57
October 27th, 2015, 11:17 AM
If you don't believe on Jesus you will perish, John 3:18.

Even if you think that you have been predestinated.

Those Christ lived and died for shall not perish, they were right with God as enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 10:20 AM
Is that what Jesus said?

And if anyone hears My words and does not believe I do not judge him, for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
(John 12:47 NKJV)

His mission was to be the savior of the world.

But he will judge.

jamie
October 28th, 2015, 12:13 PM
His mission was to be the savior of the world.

But he will judge.


Jesus Christ judges his people if we don't properly judge ourselves. He will judge unbelievers through his priests.

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 12:20 PM
Jesus Christ judges his people if we don't properly judge ourselves. He will judge unbelievers through his priests.


If you find yourself at "The Great White Throne Judgment" you will know that you are in trouble, Revelation 20:11-15.

beloved57
October 28th, 2015, 03:00 PM
If you find yourself at "The Great White Throne Judgment" you will know that you are in trouble, Revelation 20:11-15.

You need to worry about yourself, you don't believe the Gospel, and scripture says He that believeth not shall be damned!

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 03:03 PM
You need to worry about yourself, you don't believe the Gospel, and scripture says He that believeth not shall be damned!

No, I don't believe your Calvinist conceived Gospel.

beloved57
October 28th, 2015, 03:11 PM
No, I don't believe your Calvinist conceived Gospel.

Calvinism is the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!

jamie
October 28th, 2015, 03:12 PM
If you find yourself at "The Great White Throne Judgment" you will know that you are in trouble, Revelation 20:11-15.


How so?


Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6 NKJV)

Robert Pate
October 29th, 2015, 08:46 AM
How so?


Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6 NKJV)


To be resurrected with Christ is to be "In Christ".

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

beloved57
October 29th, 2015, 08:49 AM
To be resurrected with Christ is to be "In Christ".

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

You teach that millions upon millions who are in Christ, wind up lost in their sins in unbelief! What happened?

Ben Masada
October 29th, 2015, 11:40 AM
That's Judaism all right. Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism and, consequently, Judaism was the gospel of Jesus. But, what's the use? When Paul showed up in the horizon, he threw away the gospel and held Jesus back to promote his own gospel as if Jesus had converted to Christianity before he was crucified. Later, listening to the apostles of Jesus, he, Paul came to the conclusion that they were preaching a different gospel about a different Jesus and, for that matter he considered them all as false apostles. That's in II Cor. 11:4-6, 13.

jamie
October 29th, 2015, 12:10 PM
To be resurrected with Christ is to be "In Christ".

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.


Thanks for your opinion, we all have one.

Robert Pate
October 29th, 2015, 02:58 PM
Thanks for your opinion, we all have one.

My opinion is biblical and is correct.

beloved57
October 30th, 2015, 03:06 AM
My opinion is biblical and is correct.

Both of you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, which rejects the saving death of Christ alone!

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 02:55 PM
Both of you teach salvation by works, by what a person does, which rejects the saving death of Christ alone!

What are going to do about John 3:18?

Nothing is yours if you don't receive it.

beloved57
October 31st, 2015, 03:11 PM
What are going to do about John 3:18?

Nothing is yours if you don't receive it.

I am not going to do nothing with it, you dont believe it. That scripture cant apply to sinners Christ died for because His death reconciled them to God while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

Nanja
October 31st, 2015, 06:05 PM
Calvinism is the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!


Yes, it is!


Thanking God for your unrelenting witness of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ, My Brother!


The Truths of TULIP:

Total Depravity and inability spiritually of the natural man

Unconditional Election of Grace of only a remnant out of mankind

Limited and particular atonement of only some out of mankind

Irresistible Grace or Effectual Call of only some out of mankind

Preservation or perseverance of the Saints to the end by God’s Power and Grace


These Truths in scripture present and define the method of God’s Saving Grace in Christ Jesus and therefore thoroughly present the Gospel of God’s Grace

Acts 20:24
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

And unbelief in any one of these Doctrinal Truths founded upon the Word of God is flat out unbelief and Apostasy !



God's Grace was never an offer to all of humanity to accept or reject,
but is exclusively given to His Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9; Rom. 11:5;
Is. 1:9, Ps. 16:3, 24:5; John 10:27-28.

~~~~~

beloved57
October 31st, 2015, 06:24 PM
Yes, it is!


Thanking God for your unrelenting witness of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ, My Brother!




God's Grace was never an offer to all of humanity to accept or reject,
but is exclusively given to His Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9; Rom. 11:5;
Is. 1:9, Ps. 16:3, 24:5; John 10:27-28.

~~~~~

Absolutely 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Robert Pate
October 31st, 2015, 08:23 PM
Yes, it is!


Thanking God for your unrelenting witness of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ, My Brother!




God's Grace was never an offer to all of humanity to accept or reject,
but is exclusively given to His Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9; Rom. 11:5;
Is. 1:9, Ps. 16:3, 24:5; John 10:27-28.

~~~~~

What are you going to do about John 3:16?

Nanja
November 1st, 2015, 05:28 AM
What are you going to do about John 3:16?


Only once you get the false notion out of your mind about Christ coming to save all of humanity without exception,
will you understand the correct meaning of John 3:16 and how it relates to and compares with other scriptures 1 Cor. 2:13.
Currently, you are in a lost state evidenced by your spiritual blindness. :Plain:

2 Cor. 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds
of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
November 1st, 2015, 08:44 AM
Only once you get the false notion out of your mind about Christ coming to save all of humanity without exception,
will you understand the correct meaning of John 3:16 and how it relates to and compares with other scriptures 1 Cor. 2:13.
Currently, you are in a lost state evidenced by your spiritual blindness. :Plain:

2 Cor. 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds
of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

~~~~~


You are the one that is spiritually blind. You have been blinded by religion.

You cannot see or believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ.

beloved57
November 1st, 2015, 10:59 AM
You are the one that is spiritually blind. You have been blinded by religion.

You cannot see or believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ.

You teach that millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief lost ! That's saying Christ death alone doesn't save anyone!

Robert Pate
November 1st, 2015, 04:58 PM
You teach that millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief lost ! That's saying Christ death alone doesn't save anyone!


The only ones that are going to be in heaven are those who by their own free will have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Guess that leaves you out.

beloved57
November 1st, 2015, 05:25 PM
The only ones that are going to be in heaven are those who by their own free will have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Guess that leaves you out.

You teach that salvation is by the will of man!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 09:15 AM
You teach that salvation is by the will of man!

Jesus said that if you don't believe on him you will perish, John 3:18.

You would rather perish.

jzeidler
November 3rd, 2015, 09:47 AM
I think this will help with understanding the completeness we have in Christ.

http://youtu.be/Bc1Dyp9s39o

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 12:22 PM
I think this will help with understanding the completeness we have in Christ.

http://youtu.be/Bc1Dyp9s39o

I agree with the young preacher.

We are perfect and complete in Christ. God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ. If God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, then don't worry about trying to make yourself better than what God has made you in Jesus Christ.

Its called entering into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:34 PM
I agree with the young preacher.

We are perfect and complete in Christ. God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ. If God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, then don't worry about trying to make yourself better than what God has made you in Jesus Christ.

Its called entering into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

You teach that those who are Perfect and complete in Christ can and do get tossed into hell for their sins in unbelief and a lost condition, what happened ?

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 12:36 PM
Jesus said that if you don't believe on him you will perish, John 3:18.

You would rather perish.

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are unbelievers and enemies Rom 5:10 ! Jn 3:18 doesnt apply to anyone Christ died for !

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 02:28 PM
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are unbelievers and enemies Rom 5:10 ! Jn 3:18 doesnt apply to anyone Christ died for !

John refutes you, 1 John 2:2.

Ben Masada
November 3rd, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jesus said that if you don't believe on him you will perish, John 3:18.

You would rather perish.

Believing Jesus or not, we will all eventually perish. (Gen. 3:22)

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 02:56 PM
Believing Jesus or not, we will all eventually perish. (Gen. 3:22)

We will all die physically, but the Spirit never dies, 1 Corinthians 15.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 03:18 PM
John refutes you, 1 John 2:2.

No it doesnt, you dont believe that scripture !

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are unbelievers and enemies Rom 5:10 ! Jn 3:18 doesn't apply to anyone Christ died for !

Bright Raven
November 3rd, 2015, 03:24 PM
No it doesnt, you dont believe that scripture !

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are unbelievers and enemies Rom 5:10 ! Jn 3:18 doesn't apply to anyone Christ died for !

You have no idea of what the gospel is!

Ben Masada
November 3rd, 2015, 03:45 PM
We will all die physically, but the Spirit never dies, 1 Corinthians 15.

The spirit here is only an embellishment as a reference to the breath of life which goes back to HaShem Who gave it to man. (Eccles. 12:7)

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 05:25 PM
The spirit here is only an embellishment as a reference to the breath of life which goes back to HaShem Who gave it to man. (Eccles. 12:7)

We will all spend eternity somewhere.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:28 PM
We will all spend eternity somewhere.

What about them that reject the Gospel like yourself? Where will they spend eternity?

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:32 PM
What about them that reject the Gospel like yourself? Where will they spend eternity?

You don't know what the Gospel is because you are void of the Holy Spirit that reveals truth, John 16:13.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:36 PM
You don't know what the Gospel is because you are void of the Holy Spirit that reveals truth, John 16:13.

You hear the Gospel every day, Calvinism, and you reject it! You are being held accountable for it!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:41 PM
You hear the Gospel every day, Calvinism, and you reject it! You are being held accountable for it!

Calvinism is the doctrine of demons composed by a heretic.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:46 PM
Calvinism is the doctrine of demons composed by a heretic.

Calvinism is the Gospel and you call it the doctrine of devil's! John Wesley said the same thing, but Spurgeon lauded him as a godly man, but that was a compromise on his part, but I am not going to make that comprise with you, sorry, you are a unbeliever!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:49 PM
Calvinism is the Gospel and you call it the doctrine of devil's! John Wesley said the same thing, but Spurgeon lauded him as a godly man, but that was a compromise on his part, but I am not going to make that comprise with you, sorry, you are a unbeliever!

Only a blind fool would embrace Calvinism.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:51 PM
Only a blind fool would embrace Calvinism.

Only a blind fool would not embrace Calvinism as the Gospel !

Bright Raven
November 3rd, 2015, 08:52 PM
Only a blind fool would not embrace Calvinism as the Gospel !

Seems like you are calling a lot of people on this website Blind fool!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:53 PM
Only a blind fool would not embrace Calvinism as the Gospel !

There is nothing in the Bible about Calvinism being the Gospel.

Where did you get that from?

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:55 PM
There is nothing in the Bible about Calvinism being the Gospel.

Where did you get that from?

There is nothing in the scriptures about Calvinism not being the Gospel! Show me a scripture that says that!

Bright Raven
November 3rd, 2015, 08:56 PM
There is nothing in the scriptures about Calvinism not being the Gospel! Show me a scripture that says that!

Show us the scripture that says it is!!!

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 08:57 PM
There is nothing in the scriptures about Calvinism not being the Gospel! Show me a scripture that says that!

So, you go by what is not in the Bible?

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 08:59 PM
So, you go by what is not in the Bible?

Do you? Is there a scripture in the bible that says Calvinism is not the bible ?

Bright Raven
November 3rd, 2015, 09:01 PM
Do you? Is there a scripture in the bible that says Calvinism is not the bible ?

Is there one that says it is?

Robert Pate
November 3rd, 2015, 09:02 PM
Do you? Is there a scripture in the bible that says Calvinism is not the bible ?

Do you have concordance. Try and find the word "Calvinism"?

beloved57
November 3rd, 2015, 09:04 PM
Do you have concordance. Try and find the word "Calvinism"?

You find a verse that says Calvinism is not in the bible!

Bright Raven
November 3rd, 2015, 09:07 PM
You find a verse that says Calvinism is not in the bible!

How do you expect it to be there if no verse addresses it? :duh:

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 07:39 AM
You hear the Gospel every day, Calvinism, and you reject it! You are being held accountable for it!


Calvinism isn't the gospel. Neither is arminianism. Grace is the gospel. Jesus came to die for you is the gospel. Jesus rose for you is the gospel. You will never be able to repay him back for what he has done for you and he doesn't want you to, that's the gospel. In Jesus there is no condemnation that's the gospel. In Christ you are the righteousness of God is the gospel. How dare you cheapen the salvation of God to the philosophy of men that can not be definitively proven! Maybe if people stopped arguing and saying stupid things like "Calvinism is the gospel" and started showing grace to people they don't agree with we might actually start looking like Jesus.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 07:47 AM
jze


Calvinism isn't the gospel.

Yes it is, opposers and enemies of it have just labeled it Calvinism !

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 07:55 AM
jze



Yes it is, opposers and enemies of it have just labeled it Calvinism !


I know Calvinism. I used to be a hardcore 5 point Calvinist and would argue till I was blue in my face and all it did in the end was drive friends away. I know that there are some parts of the gospel involved in Calvinism because Calvinism is a theology that strives to define in human terms what Jesus did for us. But to say that "Calvinism IS the gospel" is to cheapen the work of Jesus. The gospel is not a theology. It's a person, and his name is Jesus.

Just think about this. Jesus is bigger than Calvinism. Peace bro.

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 07:58 AM
That's Judaism all right. Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism and, consequently, Judaism was the gospel of Jesus. But, what's the use? When Paul showed up in the horizon, he threw away the gospel and held Jesus back to promote his own gospel as if Jesus had converted to Christianity before he was crucified. Later, listening to the apostles of Jesus, he, Paul came to the conclusion that they were preaching a different gospel about a different Jesus and, for that matter he considered them all as false apostles. That's in II Cor. 11:4-6, 13.


Prove it. If Paul was wrong why did Peter confirm what he said about Jesus? Where are the Jesus followers you talk about today? Surely his teachings would still be around since he was a man of God. Where in history are your claims verified?

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 07:59 AM
jze


I know Calvinism.

And you dont believe it to be the Gospel, that makes you an unbeliever then ! You know it only carnally !

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 08:01 AM
I know Calvinism. I used to be a hardcore 5 point Calvinist and would argue till I was blue in my face and all it did in the end was drive friends away. I know that there are some parts of the gospel involved in Calvinism because Calvinism is a theology that strives to define in human terms what Jesus did for us. But to say that "Calvinism IS the gospel" is to cheapen the work of Jesus. The gospel is not a theology. It's a person, and his name is Jesus.

Just think about this. Jesus is bigger than Calvinism. Peace bro.

I am not your bro, not in Christ, since you reject Calvinism, Particularly the Truths of TULIP, to be the Gospel !

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 08:01 AM
jze



And you dont believe it to be the Gospel, that makes you an unbeliever then ! You know it only carnally !


I will not put my faith in a doctrine that doesn't affect my day to day life as if it were Jesus himself. I take what I see in Calvinism that is true and leave the rest. But it comes down to the fact that Calvinism doesn't change my life. Jesus does.

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 08:07 AM
You teach that God is unjust and will punish the Righteous in Hell for their sins!


You're wrong. Jesus died and reconciled the world to himself but God demands that we must reconcile ourselves to him. It doesn't matter for salvation of only your sins are paid for because they will just make someone natural and unable to reach heaven. There must be righteousness added and that only comes through faith in Jesus. If you do not accept Jesus you will not be saved because essentially what you are asking is for God to judge you based upon your works rather than Jesus' and that doesn't turn out well because again you have no righteousness. So no, not everyone is saved and not everyone is holy or just and definitely not everyone is righteous.

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 08:14 AM
You're wrong. Jesus died and reconciled the world to himself but God demands that we must reconcile ourselves to him. It doesn't matter for salvation of only your sins are paid for because they will just make someone natural and unable to reach heaven. There must be righteousness added and that only comes through faith in Jesus. If you do not accept Jesus you will not be saved because essentially what you are asking is for God to judge you based upon your works rather than Jesus' and that doesn't turn out well because again you have no righteousness. So no, not everyone is saved and not everyone is holy or just and definitely not everyone is righteous.


Calvinism is his Jesus.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 11:16 AM
Calvinism is his Jesus.

Calvinism is the Gospel and you don't believe it, that is unbelief!

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 11:17 AM
You're wrong. Jesus died and reconciled the world to himself but God demands that we must reconcile ourselves to him. It doesn't matter for salvation of only your sins are paid for because they will just make someone natural and unable to reach heaven. There must be righteousness added and that only comes through faith in Jesus. If you do not accept Jesus you will not be saved because essentially what you are asking is for God to judge you based upon your works rather than Jesus' and that doesn't turn out well because again you have no righteousness. So no, not everyone is saved and not everyone is holy or just and definitely not everyone is righteous.

False teaching, those Christ died for are reconciled to God by Christ death while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 11:48 AM
False teaching, those Christ died for are reconciled to God by Christ death while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !

You think that Romans 5:10 cancels out John 3:18.

If you do not believe in Jesus you will perish.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 11:57 AM
You think that Romans 5:10 cancels out John 3:18.

If you do not believe in Jesus you will perish.

What I believe about those verses I have explained in my threads!

Now, those Christ died for were reconciled to God while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 12:15 PM
False teaching, those Christ died for are reconciled to God by Christ death while they are enemies Rom 5:10 !


http://youtu.be/G8yu5TTtAsc

You still need to reconcile yourself to God.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 12:44 PM
http://youtu.be/G8yu5TTtAsc

You still need to reconcile yourself to God.

You in a false religion, those Christ lived and died for were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies Rom 5;10 !

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 12:57 PM
You in a false religion, those Christ lived and died for were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies Rom 5;10 !

You appear to be pressing your way into hell.

jzeidler
November 4th, 2015, 01:00 PM
You in a false religion, those Christ lived and died for were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies Rom 5;10 !


You don't listen to what is clear. Jesus reconciles us to himself and doesn't count our sins against us. This however does not make us righteous. It does not make us saved. We must believe that this is true and that Jesus died for us in order to receive his righteousness and all that he is. We need to accept Jesus in order to be saved. This is clear in scripture. Universalism is satanic.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 01:46 PM
You don't listen to what is clear. Jesus reconciles us to himself and doesn't count our sins against us. This however does not make us righteous. It does not make us saved. We must believe that this is true and that Jesus died for us in order to receive his righteousness and all that he is. We need to accept Jesus in order to be saved. This is clear in scripture. Universalism is satanic.

Jesus did not die for everyone!

Robert Pate
November 4th, 2015, 03:52 PM
Jesus did not die for everyone!

The Bible says that he did, Hebrews 2:9.

The reason that he did was because of his great love for humanity, John 3:16.

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 03:54 PM
Jesus did not die for everyone!
You do not know the scriptures.

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jesus did not die for everyone!


True indeed!


Christ died for His Sheep.

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Mat. 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand [the Sheep], Come, ye blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world


But the non-sheep, the goats, are condemned already. John 3:18.

Mat 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed ,
into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

~~~~~

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:37 PM
The Bible says that he did, Hebrews 2:9.

The reason that he did was because of his great love for humanity, John 3:16.

Those Christ died for are by His Death reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10, that doesn't apply to all because as enemies and unbelievers some are under His wrath and condemnation John 3:18,36!

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:38 PM
True indeed!


Christ died for His Sheep.

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Mat. 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand [the Sheep], Come, ye blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world


But the non-sheep, the goats, are condemned already. John 3:18.

Mat 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed ,
into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

~~~~~

You have spoken with Spiritual Wisdom from above!

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:41 PM
The Bible says that he did, Hebrews 2:9.

The reason that he did was because of his great love for humanity, John 3:16.

How many times have I told you that you don't believe the scriptures or understand them?

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 05:48 PM
You have spoken with Spiritual Wisdom from above!

Bless You!

~~~~~

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 05:54 PM
Bless You!

~~~~~

I must say you are a blessing from the Lord!

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 05:58 PM
I must say you are a blessing from the Lord!


It is His Will that I am, and you are also to me! ☺

~~~~~

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 06:05 PM
You don't listen to what is clear. Jesus reconciles us to himself and doesn't count our sins against us. This however does not make us righteous. It does not make us saved. We must believe that this is true and that Jesus died for us in order to receive his righteousness and all that he is. We need to accept Jesus in order to be saved. This is clear in scripture. Universalism is satanic.


You preach a false gospel of works.

Eph. 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

~~~~~

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 06:07 PM
You preach a false gospel of works.

Eph. 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

~~~~~

And how is one saved? By grace, through faith. That is a gift, not works.

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 06:13 PM
And how is one saved? By grace, through faith. That is a gift, not works.


You said it!

~~~~~

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 06:20 PM
You said it!

~~~~~

Then, how does man express his faith?

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 07:08 PM
Then, how does man express his faith?


Faith is God-Given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

Gal. 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see, the Seed of Christ is Abraham's Seed, the ones Christ died for.
The same are His Sheep John 10:28: They are all Abraham's Seed, Children of Promise,
just as Isaac was Gal. 4:28. And the same are Christ's Body, the Church!

Gal. 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;
that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal. 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many;
but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal. 4
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

~~~~~

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 07:10 PM
Faith is God-Given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

Gal. 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see, the Seed of Christ is Abraham's Seed, the ones Christ died for.
The same are His Sheep John 10:28: They are all Abraham's Seed, Children of Promise,
just as Isaac was Gal. 4:28. And the same are Christ's Body, the Church!

Gal. 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;
that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal. 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many;
but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal. 4
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

~~~~~

Faith is something that is required to be born again.

Nanja
November 4th, 2015, 07:15 PM
Faith is something that is required to be born again.

Nope. One having Faith is the evidence that he has been Born of the Spirit.

For Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit Gal 5:22; Eph. 2:8!

~~~~~

Bright Raven
November 4th, 2015, 07:28 PM
Nope. One having Faith is the evidence that he has been Born of the Spirit.

For Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit Gal 5:22; Eph. 2:8!

~~~~~

We have been saved by grace through our faith.

beloved57
November 4th, 2015, 07:56 PM
Nope. One having Faith is the evidence that he has been Born of the Spirit.

For Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit Gal 5:22; Eph. 2:8!

~~~~~

AMEN !

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 09:20 AM
Nope. One having Faith is the evidence that he has been Born of the Spirit.

For Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit Gal 5:22; Eph. 2:8!

~~~~~


Just because someone is religious and quotes scripture does not mean that they are saved.

Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel. Not in a doctrine or a religion.

OCTOBER23
November 5th, 2015, 09:37 AM
Now , this is what I call a discussion.

I would like to SAVE this one for the Kingdom.

jzeidler
November 5th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Now , this is what I call a discussion.

I would like to SAVE this one for the Kingdom.


I agree, we will not find the answer here so it's not worth arguing about, whether limited or unlimited. Makes no difference to people being saved. Believe in Jesus and you'll be saved. That simple.

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Now , this is what I call a discussion.

I would like to SAVE this one for the Kingdom.

Which Kingdom?

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 10:41 AM
Just because someone is religious and quotes scripture does not mean that they are saved.

Saving faith is always faith in Christ and his Gospel. Not in a doctrine or a religion.

Correct, you are religious, zealous, but an unbeliever, you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ !

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 02:05 PM
Correct, you are religious, zealous, but an unbeliever, you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ !

You have faith in a doctrine, but you don't have faith in Christ.

You apparently believe that John Calvin is your savior.

beloved57
November 5th, 2015, 02:57 PM
You have faith in a doctrine, but you don't have faith in Christ.

You apparently believe that John Calvin is your savior.

You have a zeal for a god , but not the True God!

Bright Raven
November 5th, 2015, 02:58 PM
You have a zeal for a god , but not the True God!

What or who is your Savior, Jesus Christ or TULIP?

Ben Masada
November 5th, 2015, 03:19 PM
Now , this is what I call a discussion.

I would like to SAVE this one for the Kingdom.

Do you understand what is the Kingdom of God? Read Exod. 19:6. "You shall be to Me a Kingdom of priests and a Holy Nation. That's what you must tell the Israelites." That's the Kingdom of God, Baruch HaShem!

SabathMoon
November 5th, 2015, 03:23 PM
Do you understand what is the Kingdom of God? Read Exod. 19:6. "You shall be to Me a Kingdom of priests and a Holy Nation. That's what you must tell the Israelites." That's the Kingdom of God, Baruch HaShem!Where is God's kingship over the earth? Do you really the god directly prevents the poster children for the next millenium from happening?

Robert Pate
November 5th, 2015, 04:37 PM
Do you understand what is the Kingdom of God? Read Exod. 19:6. "You shall be to Me a Kingdom of priests and a Holy Nation. That's what you must tell the Israelites." That's the Kingdom of God, Baruch HaShem!

I didn't know that you could buy a Bible without a New Testament.

Where did you get that?