PDA

View Full Version : Understanding the Gospel Thru the Book of Life



Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:22 AM
A. The Relationship between the Gospel and the Book of Life

Scriptures define the Gospel as the power of God for salvation:

NAS Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The Book of Life determines who are bound for salvation:

• KJV Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

• NKJ Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. . . . 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

The Gospel is the power of God for salvation ; the Book of Life is God’s list of those who are for salvation and specifies the final destiny of man:

• Lake of fire for those not found written in the Book of Life. Rev 20:15

• New heaven & new earth for those written in the Book of Life. Rev 21:1, 27

The issue of one’s personal salvation can then be simplified into being written in the Book of Life, because only those written in it will be allowed in the new heaven & earth; while anyone not found in it will be cast into the lake of fire. Being written in the Book of Life may therefore be taken to mean:

1. that a person is in Christ because there is no condemnation for those in Christ (Rom 8:1; see also Rom 5:16-18); otherwise one belongs to the same condemnation as the devil (1 Tim 3:6) who is destined for the lake of fire (Matt 25:41)

2. that a person is part of the body of Christ – His Church (Eph 5:23-32); otherwise he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8:9) and he cannot be with Christ when He comes again (John 14:1-3)

3. that a person is a member of the household or family of God (Eph 2:19) and therefore a son of God (Rev 21:7), otherwise he is of the devil (John 8:44)

Wouldn’t it be good news for a person to know that his name is actually written in the Book of Life? And the Gospel is Good News!!! Hence, understanding the specifics of the Book of Life will lead us to a better understanding of the Gospel.

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:28 AM
B. The Book of Life in Perspective

Here are important questions about the Book of Life that need to be addressed:


1. When is a person’s name written in the Book of Life?
2. Is there blotting out of names from the Book of Life?
3. Who will not be blotted out from the Book of Life?
4. When is judgment rendered whether a name is to be blotted out from the Book of Life or not?

We shall soon see that properly addressed via the Bible, correct answers to these questions will lead us to a better understanding of the Gospel.

Question #1: When is a person’s name written in the Book of Life?

Common answers:


When one believes in the Lord.
When one accepts Christ as his personal Saviour.
When one is born again.
When one is baptized.
When one enters into a covenant relationship with God.

If any of the above is correct, then people are born NOT written in the Book of Life. And if one dies before his name gets written in it, then he has no other destiny but the lake of fire. It logically follows that to be born not written in the Book of Life is to be bound for the lake of fire until written:


KJV Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, from the answers commonly given, it necessarily follows that people are born NOT written in the Book of Life. Sadly, this looks like this is the brand of gospel popularly being preached to the world by majority of preachers. Let us try to see for ourselves whether Scriptures point to this same direction or not.

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:34 AM
What does the Bible say God wants for all?


NIV 1 Timothy 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

The God Who wants all to be saved, is also the same God Who gave life to all men and took us out from the womb:


NIV Acts 17:25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

NIV Psalm 22:9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast.

He is the same God Who determines where we are to be born and live:


NIV Acts 17:26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

If indeed people are born not written in the Book of Life as the common answers suggest, is it then consistent with the will of God Who wants all men to be saved, the same God Who gives life to all, and the same God Who determines the exact places where we are to live, to cause the birth of one He knows will die with no knowledge about our Lord and is therefore destined for the lake of fire?

Scriptures tell of a question asked of the Lord about the wounds in His hands:


KJV Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Obviously, the one asking the Lord “what are these wounds in thine hands” has no knowledge about His crucifixion yet he is with the Lord! This simply means that one who has no knowledge about the crucifixion of our Lord can also be with Him in the future instead of in the lake of fire. This simply tells us his name is written in the Book of Life! The Bible seems to point to a direction opposite to what the common answers point us to.

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:39 AM
Let’s consider the little children who die before the age of accountability. I have one such child who died 17 days after birth. If his name is not in the Book of Life as the common answers suggest, then he is bound for the lake of fire. But Scriptures give me hope that is not the case.

Regarding the little children who know neither good nor evil, God Himself said:

KJV Deut 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it

Also, Jesus Himself said regarding the little children who know neither good nor evil:


KJV Matthew 18:3 . . . Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

KJV Matthew 19:14 . . . Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

So, is there any Biblical proof that little children who died before the age of accountability can make it to the new heaven and the new earth? The prophet Isaiah recorded a future scenario that God Himself described:


NKJ Isaiah 11:6-9 6 " The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.

In the scenario God Himself described, there will be little children in the new earth. From where are these little children? The little children in the new earth could not possibly be conceived in the new earth because there is no marriage after the resurrection (see Mt 22:30; Mk 12:25; Lk 20:35). We are then left with the inevitable conclusion that these are those who died before the age of accountability and were resurrected in the resurrection of the righteous. The fact that there will be little children in the new earth tells us their names are in the Book of Life, otherwise, they would have been thrown into the lake of fire.


KJV Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

NKJ Revelation 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

The God Who said only those whose names are in the Book of Life can enter the new earth is the same God Who said there will be little children in the new earth. This simply means that little children are born with their names in the Book of Life. And because we all were once little children and God does not show partiality, we all were born with our names written in the Book of Life!!!

Isn’t this good news, the gospel of God's love for all, the Gospel that Jesus wanted preached to the world before He comes again?

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:46 AM
C. The Gospel as Understood from the Book of Life

Scriptures were provided pointing to the direction that we were born with our names in the Book of Life, and therefore we were born heaven-bound. In-as-much-as we did NOTHING for our names to be written there, this is all God’s grace because grace is defined as the unmerited favor of God.

As per Scriptures, when did the Father give us His grace?


NKJ 2 Timothy 1: 9[God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began 10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

Yes, the Father SAVED us by His grace He gave us in Christ even BEFORE time began. No wonder, He has chosen us BEFORE the foundation of the world!


NKJ Ephesians 1:3-5 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will

The Father chose us BEFORE the foundation of the world, even before He created Adam & Eve! This implies that He knew us before we were born!


NKJ Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you . . .

Paraphrasing, contingent upon the death of Christ on the cross, God SAVED us by His grace before time began, and chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. This is evidenced by the fact that we were born with our names written in the Book of Life. This is the Past Tense of Salvation, the First Dimension of the Gospel.

The Past Tense of Salvation is God’s work FOR man. All God’s grace; NOT an iota of human participation. God did all through Christ; all men merely benefited.


NKJ 1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Again, Scriptures declare:


NKJ 2 Timothy 1: 9[God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began 10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

The death of Christ reconciled us all to God:


NKJ Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

The death of Christ washed us clean from sin:


NKJ Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood

The death of Christ caused the forgiveness of all our sins:


NAS Colossians 2:13-14 13And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

The death of Christ sanctified or made us holy and perfect in God’s sight:


NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Again, the Past Tense of Salvation is all God’s work for man through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and evidenced by the writing of our names in the Book of Life , not an iota of man’s participation. How about the Present Tense of Salvation?

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:50 AM
The 2nd Dimension of the Gospel, the Present Tense of Salvation

If there is Past Tense of Salvation, there is also the Present Tense of Salvation:

NKJ 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.

In the Past Tense of Salvation God worked FOR man, in the Present Tense of Salvation, God works IN man through the Holy Spirit; and man responds:


NKJ Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

NKJ John 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

If we commit any sin, the sin committed, having been forgiven at the cross, is not imputed against us:


NIV 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

In fact, this sin committed God remembers NO MORE:


NKJ Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,“

17then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

The non-imputation of sin against us is Christ’s act of continually justifying us because He was raised for our justification:


KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

But the act of sinning is proof enough that the person is NOT an overcomer yet. The sin committed is neither imputed nor remembered, but the person is reminded by that act of sinning that he has not yet overcome that evil with good. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life.


NKJ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

NKJ Revelation 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

In the Past Tense of Salvation, we were attached to Him Who is our Strength to overcome evil. It is in the Present Tense of Salvation, which is the 2nd Dimension of the Gospel, that we are to overcome evil with good. We were empowered in the past tense, we are to use that power to overcome evil in the present tense.


NKJ Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Attached to Him through Whom we are more than overcomers (Rom 8:37), we have His power to overcome evil (Phil 4:13; Rom 12:21). But if at the end of one’s journey in life one is found to have not overcome evil with good, then he has no one else to blame but himself, for it is not a question of INABILITY, but one of REFUSAL to overcome evil with good. His name will be blotted out from the Book of Life, dismembered from the body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God.

We now go to the 3rd Dimension of the Gospel, the Future Tense of Salvation.

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 06:53 AM
The Future Tense of Salvation – the 3rd Dimension of the Gospel

This is where people are rewarded according to what each has done. This will start when Christ returns:


KJV Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

NAS Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Our Lord said that the rewarding at the Second Coming is for “EVERY MAN”. I personally believe that “EVERY MAN” refers to everyone born into this world; not one single person exempted.

For the righteous – those whose names remained in the Book of Life – eternal life and ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb. All others will suffer the wrath of God and finally thrown into the lake of fire.


NKJ Romans 2:6-11 6 [God] "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness -- indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

We now compare the Gospel popularly being preached with the Pure Gospel, the Gospel our Lord wanted preached to all the world before He comes again.

To be continued next post . . .

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 07:06 AM
Comparison of the Popular Gospel with the Pure Gospel

The Popular Gospel teaches that unless one has faith and believes he cannot be attached to the Body of Christ. But faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and Christ said that we can only bear fruit if we are attached to Him (John 15:4-5):

KJV Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith

NAS John 15:4-5 4a"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he abears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Sorry to say but it appears, the Popular Gospel teaches opposite to what the Lord teaches because while the Savior directly teaches “be attached to me first to bear fruit”, the popular gospel indirectly teaches “bear fruit first to be attached to Christ”. How so? Because believing is the exercise of faith, a fruit only those attached to Christ can bear. So by teaching that people can only be attached to Christ if one first believes is clearly opposite to what the Savior taught.

In contrast, the Pure Gospel teaches we believe not to be attached but because we had been. With our names in the Book of Life, that means we are attached to Christ.

The Popular Gospel teaches that in order to be born again, man has to decide. Therefore, the Popular Gospel teaches that to be born again depends upon the decision of man.

In contrast, the Pure Gospel teaches what Scriptures simply say, that we were born again through the resurrection of Christ and that it was God’s decision, not man’s:


NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

The Popular Gospel indirectly teaches that people are born not written in the Book of Life and therefore people are born hell-bound until written.

The Pure Gospel directly teaches that people are born with their names in the Book of Life and therefore people are born heaven-bound until deleted.

So, which Gospel do you preach?

The apostle Paul preached the gospel of Christ (Rom 15:19) which to me is the Pure Gospel and warns of a curse against the preaching of another gospel:


NKJ Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

What gospel do you want to preach? If you are preaching the Popular Gospel, then your decision to preach the Pure Gospel from now on is adding one more to the side of truth to hasten the coming of our Lord.


KJV Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Why hasn't our Lord returned? I believe it's because the Gospel He wanted preached to the world before He comes again is yet to be preached.

patrick jane
October 18th, 2015, 08:24 AM
Are you interested in The Book Of Life ? Read Paul's epistles of the gospel of grace, and believe and TRUST that Jesus Christ has already put your name in The Book.


1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -

patrick jane
October 18th, 2015, 08:25 AM
1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV -

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 10:16 AM
Are you interested in The Book Of Life ? Read Paul's epistles of the gospel of grace, and believe and TRUST that Jesus Christ has already put your name in The Book.


1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
I believe that people are born with their names in the Book of Life, even before they have read the gospel of grace. When we get to heaven, I guess there will be people there who may not have read the Bible on earth.

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 02:51 PM
The call "Believe to be saved" is what people normally hear Christian preachers admonish them. This means that the preacher sees that the people to whom his admonition "Believe to be saved" is addressed are still separate from Christ, having not yet believed.

But believing is exercising faith and faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:23) only those attached to Christ can bear (John 15:4, 5). The fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they already have faith and therefore were already attached to Christ before the preacher told them to believe.

glorydaz
October 18th, 2015, 03:21 PM
I believe that people are born with their names in the Book of Life, even before they have read the gospel of grace. When we get to heaven, I guess there will be people there who may not have read the Bible on earth.

I'll admit I may not be understanding all you're trying to say, but I think you are talking about the Book of the Living. There are "books". The dead "were judged out of .....the BOOKS, according to their works. The "book of life" is "another book". I think the book of the living is one of the "books".


Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


The call "Believe to be saved" is what people normally hear Christian preachers admonish them. This means that the preacher sees that the people to whom his admonition "Believe to be saved" is addressed are still separate from Christ, having not yet believed.

But believing is exercising faith and faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:23) only those attached to Christ can bear (John 15:4, 5). The fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they already have faith and therefore were already attached to Christ before the preacher told them to believe.

No, faith that is the fruit of the Spirit is not saving faith which is the word of faith which we preach. I think that's made clear here.


Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:28 PM
I'll admit I may not be understanding all you're trying to say, but I think you are talking about the Book of the Living. There are "books". The dead "were judged out of .....the BOOKS, according to their works. The "book of life" is "another book". I think the book of the living is one of the "books".


Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



No, faith that is the fruit of the Spirit is not saving faith which is the word of faith which we preach. I think that's made clear here.


Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Amen

glorydaz
October 18th, 2015, 03:45 PM
Amen

:e4e:

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 04:20 PM
. . .

No, faith that is the fruit of the Spirit is not saving faith which is the word of faith which we preach. I think that's made clear here.


Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Who gave each one faith?

NKJ Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
I believe that God gave to each one only one kind of faith. It's maybe what you call "saving faith". And the act of exercising that faith is the act of believing, only the spiritually alive can do. The fact that people are able to believe (able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive. And to be spiritually alive means one is already attached to Christ because He is our Life (Col 3:4).

If a preacher thinks that the people to whom he is addressing the admonition "Believe to be saved" are yet spiritually dead, then he is simply like one who says to the unconscious "Go to the doctor and be revived". And apart from Christ, one is not simply unconscious: he is spiritually DEAD.

Praise God Who through Christ made us all spiritually alive! That's why all of us were written in the Book of Life. But alas, many had been, and many will be, blotted out. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from it.

Right Divider
October 18th, 2015, 04:43 PM
Who gave each one faith?
NKJ Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.I believe that God gave to each one only one kind of faith. It's maybe what you call "saving faith". And the act of exercising that faith is the act of believing, only the spiritually alive can do. The fact that people are able to believe (able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive. And to be spiritually alive means one is already attached to Christ because He is our Life (Col 3:4).

If a preacher thinks that the people to whom he is addressing the admonition "Believe to be saved" are yet spiritually dead, then he is simply like one who says to the unconscious "Go to the doctor and be revived". And apart from Christ, one is not simply unconscious: he is spiritually DEAD.

Praise God Who through Christ made us all spiritually alive! That's why all of us were written in the Book of Life. But alas, many had been, and many will be, blotted out. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from it.
Has it ever occurred to you that you need to read the context of the passage to actually understand what it means?
Rom 12:1-8 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (3) For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (4) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (5) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (6) Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us , whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (7) Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; (8) Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
The "measure of faith" spoken of in verse 3 is NOT talking to about faith in the gospel. It's about differing gifts that God gives to the members of His body.

glorydaz
October 18th, 2015, 04:45 PM
Who gave each one faith?

NKJ Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
I believe that God gave to each one only one kind of faith. It's maybe what you call "saving faith". And the act of exercising that faith is the act of believing, only the spiritually alive can do. The fact that people are able to believe (able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive. And to be spiritually alive means one is already attached to Christ because He is our Life (Col 3:4).

If a preacher thinks that the people to whom he is addressing the admonition "Believe to be saved" are yet spiritually dead, then he is simply like one who says to the unconscious "Go to the doctor and be revived". And apart from Christ, one is not simply unconscious: he is spiritually DEAD.

Praise God Who through Christ made us all spiritually alive! That's why all of us were written in the Book of Life. But alas, many had been, and many will be, blotted out. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from it.

Then what does it mean to be justified by faith if we all have that "measure of faith", why are not all men justified? Why is there the faith of Jesus Christ and our faith in Christ? Why do we pray the Lord will increase our faith?

And when you speak of overcomers, what does John mean here...that it is our faith that is the victory?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Has it ever occurred to you that you need to read the context of the passage to actually understand what it means?
Rom 12:1-8 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (3) For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (4) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (5) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (6) Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us , whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (7) Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; (8) Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
The "measure of faith" spoken of in verse 3 is NOT talking to about faith in the gospel. It's about differing gifts that God gives to the members of His body.
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again, the fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive even before they heard the preacher's call. How? All because of what God has done for us all THROUGH Christ our Lord and Savior. That is why all our names were written in the Book of Life. But many had been, and many will be, blotted out from it. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life (Rev 3:5).

glorydaz
October 18th, 2015, 07:00 PM
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again, the fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive even before they heard the preacher's call. How? All because of what God has done for us all THROUGH Christ our Lord and Savior. That is why all our names were written in the Book of Life. But many had been, and many will be, blotted out from it. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life (Rev 3:5).

Repeating the same things won't convince anyone. What do you mean by "attached to Christ"? I know of our being IN HIM and His Spirit being IN US, but what are you talking about?


The Lord Jesus Christ overcame the world. John 16:33KJV So what is your idea of what we are to overcome? What measurement do you use?

Those IN HIM are overcomers because they are IN THE BELOVED. Those who were "dead in sins" are quickened together with Christ (when they believe). Eph. 2:5KJV Those who believe are created IN HIM. Eph. 2:10KJV As new creatures. 2 Corinthians 5:17KJV We are hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:3KJV

I'm not sure how much of scripture you're willing to ignore in order to stand on a verse in Revelation, but you are forcing something that is not there. Try making your theory fit with the verses here. Maybe you're trying to say something you haven't made clear to me, yet, but until you address the above, I, for one, see no proof of what you claim.

glorydaz
October 18th, 2015, 07:07 PM
Has it ever occurred to you that you need to read the context of the passage to actually understand what it means?

The "measure of faith" spoken of in verse 3 is NOT talking to about faith in the gospel. It's about differing gifts that God gives to the members of His body.


When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again,

No, don't say again until you deal with what Right Divider gave you. One of your proofs has just hit the dirt, and it's a big one. Do you disagree? Instead of plugging ahead.....step back and see what that does to your theory.

Right Divider
October 18th, 2015, 07:54 PM
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again, the fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive even before they heard the preacher's call. How? All because of what God has done for us all THROUGH Christ our Lord and Savior. That is why all our names were written in the Book of Life. But many had been, and many will be, blotted out from it. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life (Rev 3:5).
What does ANY of that have to do with the POST that you are REPLYING to?

You just enjoy talking to yourself.

Samie
October 19th, 2015, 01:34 AM
Repeating the same things won't convince anyone. What do you mean by "attached to Christ"? I know of our being IN HIM and His Spirit being IN US, but what are you talking about? To be attached to Christ is to be part of His Body, as I have earlier explained. Did you not read it?


The Lord Jesus Christ overcame the world. John 16:33KJV So what is your idea of what we are to overcome? What measurement do you use? It's God Who decides who the overcomers are, not me. It's God Who measures people, not me. It's Scriptures that say we need to overcome evil with good, not simply me (Rom 12:21).


Those IN HIM are overcomers because they are IN THE BELOVED. We are His followers, being His sheep. We need to follow His example. It's Scriptures that admonish us to overcome evil with good, not me. Have you read Rom 12:21?


Those who were "dead in sins" are quickened together with Christ (when they believe). Eph. 2:5KJV Those who believe are created IN HIM. Eph. 2:10KJV As new creatures. 2 Corinthians 5:17KJV We are hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:3KJVScriptures are correct by themselves. What you added - (when they believe) - poisons the whole thing. How can the "dead" believe? Can you explain this?


I'm not sure how much of scripture you're willing to ignore in order to stand on a verse in Revelation, but you are forcing something that is not there. Are the verses in Revelation against other verses of Scriptures you tell me I stand on one verse in Rev and ignore the others? How were you able to say that? Show me. Not just tell me. It's you who are ignoring the Scriptures I quoted. You did not even take up the issue I presented.


Try making your theory fit with the verses here. Show me how they don't fit. You can't show because you know they fit.


Maybe you're trying to say something you haven't made clear to me, yet, but until you address the above, I, for one, see no proof of what you claim. It's clear that you just simply ignore the issue I presented.

Again, here's the issue you don't want to address:
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead? Try addressing that, please. Or object to my earlier posts in this thread by showing me how I am in error in what I posted.

Samie
October 19th, 2015, 01:39 AM
What does ANY of that have to do with the POST that you are REPLYING to?Did you even notice that her post did not even address the original issue I raised up? So I need to repeat the issue.


You just enjoy talking to yourself.It seems better that way especially if the one I would be talking to is like you, brother.

You act as one who always raises his hand in a meeting and says "I second the motion".

Samie
October 19th, 2015, 01:51 AM
Then what does it mean to be justified by faith if we all have that "measure of faith", why are not all men justified? Have you read this verse before?
NAS Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.


Why is there the faith of Jesus Christ and our faith in Christ? Why do we pray the Lord will increase our faith?That simply means we were given faith to exercise. As muscles are developed by exercise, so faith need to be exercised likewise.


And when you speak of overcomers, what does John mean here...that it is our faith that is the victory?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.Our faith is the faith of the Son of God which God gave to every man (Rom 12:3).

Right Divider
October 19th, 2015, 08:17 AM
Did you even notice that her post did not even address the original issue I raised up? So I need to repeat the issue.

Did you notice that I DID address something that YOU wrote and that YOUR reply had NOTHING to do with what I wrote?

If you're going to reply to a post, reply to THE POST.


It seems better that way especially if the one I would be talking to is like you, brother.

You act as one who always raises his hand in a meeting and says "I second the motion".
A very uninformed opinion on your part.

glorydaz
October 19th, 2015, 02:45 PM
Have you read this verse before?

That simply means we were given faith to exercise. As muscles are developed by exercise, so faith need to be exercised likewise.

Our faith is the faith of the Son of God which God gave to every man (Rom 12:3).

Why do you quote from one translation and then a different one the next time? Is it because you're picking those that come closer to saying what you want them to say?

I have read the verse you quote, but I'm not sure what you think that verse is saying.

glorydaz
October 19th, 2015, 03:05 PM
To be attached to Christ is to be part of His Body, as I have earlier explained. Did you not read it?

Yes, I did read it, but, to be honest, you are not very good at making yourself understood by the average reader. I'm about average, and I can't make heads or trails out of what you say. If you want to talk about what it means to be spiritually dead, then you need to focus on that....and support it or refute it. Otherwise you build a house and none can feel safe entering because the foundation appears to be shaky.


It's God Who decides who the overcomers are, not me. It's God Who measures people, not me. It's Scriptures that say we need to overcome evil with good, not simply me (Rom 12:21).

That we should overcome evil with good has NOTHING to do with our salvation, and that's what you're attempting to prove.

Eph. 2 proves you wrong. We are saved by grace through faith...not of works....not of ourselves lest any should boast. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Salvation is a gift and you're trying to claim it's something we must earn by our overcoming sin. Our Lord overcame sin and death by HIS work. A work we certainly are unable to do....try as we might. If we could do so, there would have been no reason for our Lord to come and do it for us.





Scriptures are correct by themselves. What you added - (when they believe) - poisons the whole thing. How can the "dead" believe? Can you explain this?

Are you a Calvinist? It looks to me like you're trying to get around the mistaken idea that man is so dead he cannot hear, so you're claiming we are saved before we "believe unto righteousness".


Are the verses in Revelation against other verses of Scriptures you tell me I stand on one verse in Rev and ignore the others? How were you able to say that? Show me. Not just tell me. It's you who are ignoring the Scriptures I quoted. You did not even take up the issue I presented.

Show me how they don't fit. You can't show because you know they fit.

I did show you....there are books and there is another book. You ignored part of your own scripture. I can't make you read correctly. Clear up your jumbled post, and then maybe I can address it how you would find acceptable.

elohiym
October 19th, 2015, 03:09 PM
I believe that people are born with their names in the Book of Life, even before they have read the gospel of grace.

Me, too. :)

Samie
October 20th, 2015, 09:50 AM
Why do you quote from one translation and then a different one the next time? Is it because you're picking those that come closer to saying what you want them to say?You can do the same, Sis. Quote from whatever translation, you want. I won't object.


I have read the verse you quote, but I'm not sure what you think that verse is saying.I think the verse is against what you are saying. You said not all were justified. I showed you a verse that says all men were.

So what translation do you want us to use?

Samie
October 20th, 2015, 10:33 AM
Yes, I did read it, but, to be honest, you are not very good at making yourself understood by the average reader. I'm about average, and I can't make heads or trails out of what you say. If you want to talk about what it means to be spiritually dead, then you need to focus on that....and support it or refute it. Otherwise you build a house and none can feel safe entering because the foundation appears to be shaky.
To be spiritually dead is to be dead to spiritual things, unable to do spiritually good acts like believing, repenting, etc.


That we should overcome evil with good has NOTHING to do with our salvation, and that's what you're attempting to prove. Then you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Again, people are born written in the Book of Life and are therefore heaven-bound UNTIL deleted from it. Our being written in the Book of Life is because of what God through Christ has done for us on the cross. Our overcoming evil with good is what the Head wants His Body parts to do.


Eph. 2 proves you wrong. We are saved by grace through faith...not of works....not of ourselves lest any should boast. And that's what I'm telling you by saying that people are born written in the Book of Life because of what God through Christ has done for us. It's because of grace that our names were written there. How can it be by our works when we were born with our names already there?


Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Salvation is a gift . . .That's why I keep on saying that we were born with our names already in the Book of Life. How can that be not a gift. But you teach that people can not be written there UNLESS he first believes. It's you who seem to be teaching salvation by works: Believe first to be written in the Book of Life.

. . . and you're trying to claim it's something we must earn by our overcoming sin.Wrong. With our names in the book of life, we are already heaven-bound. That we are born heaven-bound, is what I teach. It's you who teach that unless man believes, he cannot be heaven-bound. And that's a works-based salvation.


Our Lord overcame sin and death by HIS work. A work we certainly are unable to do....try as we might. If we could do so, there would have been no reason for our Lord to come and do it for us. And He is our Shepherd; we are His sheep. And being His sheep, we are enjoined by our Shepherd to follow Him Who fashioned us into His Body on the cross. And attached to Him Who is our Strength for overcoming, we have His Power to overcome evil with good.


Are you a Calvinist? No, I'm not.


It looks to me like you're trying to get around the mistaken idea that man is so dead he cannot hear, so you're claiming we are saved before we "believe unto righteousness". So you believe the dead can hear? You believe the dead can believe? That's why I am asking you to explain how the dead can hear and believe.

Again, there are 3 tenses of salvation: past, present, future. God has saved us, is saving us, and will yet save us. Read my earlier posts in page 1 of this thread, so you can better understand the gospel.


I did show you....there are books and there is another book. You ignored part of your own scripture. I can't make you read correctly. Clear up your jumbled post, and then maybe I can address it how you would find acceptable.It's in the Book of Life where names are written. And when one's name is not found there, he's destination is the lake of fire. Do you believe this?