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Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 09:49 AM
Satan deceives through religion. If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God, you are a candidate to be deceived.

Adam and Eve bought the devils lie that if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden they would be as God's knowing good from evil. Of course it was lie and caused them to lose their relationship with God and their home in the garden, Genesis 3:4-6.

It appears that Adam and Eve wanted to be like God and know as much as God. It is Satan's purpose to lead one into religion. To lead one into religion is to lead one into themselves. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality. It is subjective. The Gospel is not subjective, it is objective (outside of us).

The whole purpose of religion is to cause one to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ and to make the Gospel of no effect. In the doctrine of Calvinism it is taught that Jesus is not the savior of the whole world. So, we must conclude that God and Jesus made a deal with the devil wherein Jesus would only atone for the sins of some, but not all. That is not the worst. The worst is predestination. God chooses some to salvation and condemns the rest to hell. That is a real faith killer. How can anyone have faith in a God such as this?

In the Catholic religion, which is highly subjective and is works based, there are a multitude of things that you must do to be saved. Catholics are busy, busy, doing their religion. Catholics are basically doing in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to reconcile themselves to God by their works. The Eucharist is nothing more than an attempt to be like Christ. Instead of trusting in Christ they are trying to be like Christ.

The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

patrick jane
October 17th, 2015, 09:54 AM
Subtility ?

boristhespider
October 17th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Interesting views , what i would certainly agree on is that the simplicity of your statement regarding the Gospel would address many issues across the globe.

Also i believe religion can be the most dangerous tool made available to people , it is in essence the ultimate weapon of mass destruction ( obviously depending how it is utilized) , i think Faith can give someone comfort and peace , but religion can easily destroy and corrupt the most decent of Men.

patrick jane
October 17th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Amen. Good thread. IT does feel amazingly good to trust in Christ and know that we are saved no matter what !!!!

NickCharles
October 17th, 2015, 10:02 AM
Calvinism. grrrrr

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 12:44 PM
Interesting views , what i would certainly agree on is that the simplicity of your statement regarding the Gospel would address many issues across the globe.

Also i believe religion can be the most dangerous tool made available to people , it is in essence the ultimate weapon of mass destruction ( obviously depending how it is utilized) , i think Faith can give someone comfort and peace , but religion can easily destroy and corrupt the most decent of Men.


Someone said, "Organized religion is the most dangerous thing in the world, because they can kill you in the name of God".

jamie
October 17th, 2015, 05:36 PM
Someone said, "Organized religion is the most dangerous thing in the world, because they can kill you in the name of God".


Don't you condemn Calvinists and Catholics in your heart?

Robert Pate
October 18th, 2015, 08:11 AM
Don't you condemn Calvinists and Catholics in your heart?

I oppose anything that perverts the glorious Gospel of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

jamie
October 18th, 2015, 09:56 AM
I oppose anything that perverts the glorious Gospel of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.


The pope can say the same thing. You have your interpretation of God's will and he has his interpretation.

iouae
October 18th, 2015, 10:12 AM
"Know good and evil" to us today implies knowledge. In the Bible, "know" means more like "experience". Adam "knew" Eve. Christ says "I never knew you".

Satan was not offering what we today call "knowledge".
Up to that point they had only "known" good and experienced good.
The weather was good, the land was good, the fruits were good.

Satan "knew" evil when he changed from Lucifer to Satan.
He was offering the experience of making a lifestyle change which did not include obedience to God. All the seedy pleasures of today, in fact.

When Adam and Eve chose to know evil, God gave them what they wanted. Now they could experience thorns, pain in childbirth, disease, fighting, death.

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 10:26 AM
. . . All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

. . .
What can you say about those who died without knowing about Christ, like the children of Christian parents who die at infancy, or those who lived and died in places yet unreached by Christian missionaries?

iouae
October 18th, 2015, 10:38 AM
What can you say about those who died without knowing about Christ, like the children of Christian parents who die at infancy, or those who lived and died in places yet unreached by Christian missionaries?

They will be resurrected in the 8th millennium and given their chance to know the Lord. See Rev 20:5

patrick jane
October 18th, 2015, 10:43 AM
What can you say about those who died without knowing about Christ, like the children of Christian parents who die at infancy, or those who lived and died in places yet unreached by Christian missionaries?

This life is so temporary in relation to God's Plan. Calamity happens and it can be harsh and tragic. Terrible things happen around us and to us because of Adam and Eve's transgression, Christ is the only way.


1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV -

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 10:44 AM
They will be resurrected in the 8th millennium and given their chance to know the Lord. See Rev 20:5
So why did Christ say that when He comes again He will reward every man according to what he has done? See Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12

He also said that all in the graves will be resurrected. See John 5:28, 29. Dan 12:1, 2.

iouae
October 18th, 2015, 11:40 AM
So why did Christ say that when He comes again He will reward every man according to what he has done? See Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12

He also said that all in the graves will be resurrected. See John 5:28, 29. Dan 12:1, 2.

Christ will have come again by the 8th M. He will reward them according to what they have done, and continue to do under His rule.
All in the graves will be resurrected - I don't see the problem.

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 02:39 PM
Christ will have come again by the 8th M. He will reward them according to what they have done, and continue to do under His rule.
All in the graves will be resurrected - I don't see the problem.
Or just refuse to see the problem? All in the graves are resurrected and every one is rewarded at the 2nd Coming. Who remained not rewarded yet?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:03 PM
Satan deceives through religion. If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God, you are a candidate to be deceived.

Adam and Eve bought the devils lie that if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden they would be as God's knowing good from evil. Of course it was lie and caused them to lose their relationship with God and their home in the garden, Genesis 3:4-6.

It appears that Adam and Eve wanted to be like God and know as much as God. It is Satan's purpose to lead one into religion. To lead one into religion is to lead one into themselves. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality. It is subjective. The Gospel is not subjective, it is objective (outside of us).

The whole purpose of religion is to cause one to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ and to make the Gospel of no effect. In the doctrine of Calvinism it is taught that Jesus is not the savior of the whole world. So, we must conclude that God and Jesus made a deal with the devil wherein Jesus would only atone for the sins of some, but not all. That is not the worst. The worst is predestination. God chooses some to salvation and condemns the rest to hell. That is a real faith killer. How can anyone have faith in a God such as this?

In the Catholic religion, which is highly subjective and is works based, there are a multitude of things that you must do to be saved. Catholics are busy, busy, doing their religion. Catholics are basically doing in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to reconcile themselves to God by their works. The Eucharist is nothing more than an attempt to be like Christ. Instead of trusting in Christ they are trying to be like Christ.

The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Excellent post

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:05 PM
Calvinism. grrrrr

I agree. However, I realize you're being sarcastic. After all, you're
a Calvinist.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:07 PM
Don't you condemn Calvinists and Catholics in your heart?

He's merely pointing them out as false. Nothing wrong with that.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:08 PM
I oppose anything that perverts the glorious Gospel of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Amen

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 03:11 PM
The pope can say the same thing. You have your interpretation of God's will and he has his interpretation.

Pate's interpretation happens to be the right interpretation. No wonder
you "Opposers" of Pate attack him constantly.

NickCharles
October 18th, 2015, 03:24 PM
I agree. However, I realize you're being sarcastic. After all, you're

a Calvinist.


grrrrr

Samie
October 18th, 2015, 04:27 PM
Excellent post

How do you think the gospel as Pate understands it, addresses the situation of those who lived and died in places yet unreached by Christian missionaries and therefore were not able to hear about Christ? Or the children who die before the age of accountability? I have already asked him but he may have missed my post.

iouae
October 18th, 2015, 09:38 PM
Or just refuse to see the problem? All in the graves are resurrected and every one is rewarded at the 2nd Coming. Who remained not rewarded yet?

The REST of the dead lived not till the 1000 years were past Rev 20:5.

When the Bible speaks in some prophecy about His coming, it includes the time after His immediate coming which includes into the 8M.

patrick jane
October 18th, 2015, 09:46 PM
The REST of the dead lived not till the 1000 years were past Rev 20:5.

When the Bible speaks in some prophecy about His coming, it includes the time after His immediate coming which includes into the 8M.

you're big on the 8M thing, huh ?

Robert Pate
October 19th, 2015, 08:15 AM
How do you think the gospel as Pate understands it, addresses the situation of those who lived and died in places yet unreached by Christian missionaries and therefore were not able to hear about Christ? Or the children who die before the age of accountability? I have already asked him but he may have missed my post.

I have already addressed this on another thread.

People in the Old Testament era were saved the same way that we are saved today. The were saved by faith in God's promise of a savior. They looked forward to a savior, we look back to the savior.

The Holy Spirit is in the world convicting people of sin and their need for a savior. There are many that have never heard of God or Christ, yet they have repentant hearts. These are the ones that come to Christ when they hear the Gospel.

iouae
October 19th, 2015, 08:59 AM
you're big on the 8M thing, huh ?

I am big on the 8M thing, as opposed to no better ideas. :)
I have not heard any credible alternative as to how those who have lived and died never hearing about the LORD are saved. Especially as there is no other name given among men whereby we might be saved.

I don't believe we are judged good with God on our clear consciences, or good deeds.

Samie
October 20th, 2015, 09:09 AM
The REST of the dead lived not till the 1000 years were past Rev 20:5.The unrighteous will be slain at the culmination of the 7th plague (Rev 19:21). That's their first death. Their second death is the lake of fire (Rev 20:15). The unrighteous will have two deaths, that's why they are resurrected twice. They will be resurrected at the second coming to suffer the wrath of God - the 7 last plagues where they are to be slain at its culmination; they will be resurrected again at the end of the 7th millennium, to be thrown into the lake of fire.


When the Bible speaks in some prophecy about His coming, it includes the time after His immediate coming which includes into the 8M.Do you have Scriptures for this? Or you could explain your position, citing Biblical basis.

Samie
October 20th, 2015, 09:17 AM
I am big on the 8M thing, as opposed to no better ideas. :)
I have not heard any credible alternative as to how those who have lived and died never hearing about the LORD are saved. Especially as there is no other name given among men whereby we might be saved.

I don't believe we are judged good with God on our clear consciences, or good deeds.
People were born written in the Book of Life, are you aware of this?

Robert Pate
October 21st, 2015, 09:11 AM
People were born written in the Book of Life, are you aware of this?


Where does it say that people are born with their names written in the book of life?

Jamie Gigliotti
October 21st, 2015, 10:38 AM
Satan deceives through religion. If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God, you are a candidate to be deceived.

Adam and Eve bought the devils lie that if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden they would be as God's knowing good from evil. Of course it was lie and caused them to lose their relationship with God and their home in the garden, Genesis 3:4-6.

It appears that Adam and Eve wanted to be like God and know as much as God. It is Satan's purpose to lead one into religion. To lead one into religion is to lead one into themselves. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality. It is subjective. The Gospel is not subjective, it is objective (outside of us).

The whole purpose of religion is to cause one to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ and to make the Gospel of no effect. In the doctrine of Calvinism it is taught that Jesus is not the savior of the whole world. So, we must conclude that God and Jesus made a deal with the devil wherein Jesus would only atone for the sins of some, but not all. That is not the worst. The worst is predestination. God chooses some to salvation and condemns the rest to hell. That is a real faith killer. How can anyone have faith in a God such as this?

In the Catholic religion, which is highly subjective and is works based, there are a multitude of things that you must do to be saved. Catholics are busy, busy, doing their religion. Catholics are basically doing in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to reconcile themselves to God by their works. The Eucharist is nothing more than an attempt to be like Christ. Instead of trusting in Christ they are trying to be like Christ.

The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Ah the subtlety of the Devil.
(I had to look up how to spell it)

YOU can be like Christ, or Christ can live through you.

YOU can do it, or by His love, His Spirit we put to death the self, the 'YOU'.

You are loved no matter what, true, but there is more to the matter; we will be moved to love Him, or ourselves, or the world?

iouae
October 21st, 2015, 11:59 AM
People were born written in the Book of Life, are you aware of this?

There are a few like Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Josiah, Samuel who are called to a task from before birth. This is not proof that even their names were written in the Book of Life indellibly. Anyone can be blotted out of the book.

I am still waiting for your or anyone's better idea of how the BC eskimo will receive their calling to eternal life.

Are you saying they just are born to be damned?

I say they are "the rest of the dead" who are raised in Christ's kingdom to hear His voice in the 8M. (Rev 20:5)

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 08:15 AM
There are a few like Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Josiah, Samuel who are called to a task from before birth. This is not proof that even their names were written in the Book of Life indellibly. Anyone can be blotted out of the book.

I am still waiting for your or anyone's better idea of how the BC eskimo will receive their calling to eternal life.

Are you saying they just are born to be damned?

I say they are "the rest of the dead" who are raised in Christ's kingdom to hear His voice in the 8M. (Rev 20:5)


There are many that have not heard of Christ and his Gospel. Yet they seek to do good and have repentant hearts. The reason for this is that the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting people of sin and the need to be saved.

In the Old Testament they were saved because they believed and had faith in God. Nothing has changed. Today we believe and have faith in God's Son.

Those that have repentant hearts are usually the ones that accept Christ when they hear the Gospel, Hebrews 3:15.

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 09:42 AM
There are many that have not heard of Christ and his Gospel. Yet they seek to do good and have repentant hearts. The reason for this is that the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting people of sin and the need to be saved.


So why is the Holy Spirit skipping over the educated, the mighty and the noble? Does God not care about them?


For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called.
(1 Corinthians 1:26 NKJV)

beloved57
October 22nd, 2015, 11:16 AM
There are many that have not heard of Christ and his Gospel. Yet they seek to do good and have repentant hearts. The reason for this is that the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting people of sin and the need to be saved.

In the Old Testament they were saved because they believed and had faith in God. Nothing has changed. Today we believe and have faith in God's Son.

Those that have repentant hearts are usually the ones that accept Christ when they hear the Gospel, Hebrews 3:15.

You have heard the Gospel of Christ, Tulip and you remain an unbeliever and unrepentant !

SaulToPaul
October 22nd, 2015, 11:58 AM
Satan deceives through religion.

I believe the Roman Catholic Church is Satan's masterpiece. All the bells, whistles, and beauty of religion, pomp and circumstance wrapped around some "Christian" words while all the while hiding the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation from billions.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 12:31 PM
So why is the Holy Spirit skipping over the educated, the mighty and the noble? Does God not care about them?


For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called.
(1 Corinthians 1:26 NKJV)


Accepting Christ as your savior can be a humbling thing.

You have to admit that you are a sinner and acknowelge that only Christ can save you.

Most that are wealthy or are noble cannot bring themselves to trust in anything except themselves.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 12:33 PM
I believe the Roman Catholic Church is Satan's masterpiece. All the bells, whistles, and beauty of religion, pomp and circumstance wrapped around some "Christian" words while all the while hiding the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation from billions.

They don't have a Gospel to hide. The Catholic church is 100% anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 12:36 PM
Accepting Christ as your savior can be a humbling thing.

You have to admit that you are a sinner and acknowelge that only Christ can save you.

Most that are wealthy or are noble cannot bring themselves to trust in anything except themselves.


So what is their future?

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 12:47 PM
So what is their future?


Christ died for their sins as well as ours.

If they reject what God has done for them "In Christ" they send themselves to hell.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2015, 01:17 PM
Christ died for their sins as well as ours.

If they reject what God has done for them "In Christ" they send themselves to hell.

You don't believe that Christ death saved anyone! Don't you believe that those Christ died for their sins, that some how they die in those same sins in unbelief?Yes or No?

Bright Raven
October 22nd, 2015, 01:25 PM
You don't believe that Christ death saved anyone! Don't you believe that those Christ died for their sins, that some how they die in those same sins in unbelief?Yes or No?

You have a sick theology.

jamie
October 22nd, 2015, 02:48 PM
Christ died for their sins as well as ours.

If they reject what God has done for them "In Christ" they send themselves to hell.


What about the second resurrection?

Samie
October 22nd, 2015, 03:12 PM
Where does it say that people are born with their names written in the book of life?You could consider my Bible-based presentation in another thread in this forum, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113684).

Samie
October 22nd, 2015, 03:17 PM
There are a few like Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Josiah, Samuel who are called to a task from before birth. This is not proof that even their names were written in the Book of Life indellibly. Anyone can be blotted out of the book.

I am still waiting for your or anyone's better idea of how the BC eskimo will receive their calling to eternal life.

Are you saying they just are born to be damned?

I say they are "the rest of the dead" who are raised in Christ's kingdom to hear His voice in the 8M. (Rev 20:5)BC Eskimos, just like everybody else, were born written in the Book of Life. You may want to consider my discussion on this in another thread, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113684).

Muires
October 22nd, 2015, 04:26 PM
The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.


I don't share your language and the expression of your belief. Nevertheless I can almost see what you're pointing at. A simplicity that comes before and lasts long after any morality or judgment, and that really has nothing to do with religious or political views. So hard to put into language. Maybe not necessary to do that. After all, hasn't gotten any of us anywhere, other than into war.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 04:38 PM
You could consider my Bible-based presentation in another thread in this forum, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113684).

I don't agree with your article.

Only those who come to Christ to be saved by him are written in the book of life.

It is not predetermined who those are.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2015, 06:29 PM
I don't agree with your article.

Only those who come to Christ to be saved by him are written in the book of life.

It is not predetermined who those are.

Invalid comments!

iouae
October 22nd, 2015, 11:34 PM
I don't agree with your article.

Only those who come to Christ to be saved by him are written in the book of life.

It is not predetermined who those are.

I read Samies articles and don't agree with his views, and agree with yours Robert.

If God will have all men to be saved, He lied (according to Samie).

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 11:38 PM
Satan deceives through religion. If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God, you are a candidate to be deceived.

Adam and Eve bought the devils lie that if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden they would be as God's knowing good from evil. Of course it was lie and caused them to lose their relationship with God and their home in the garden, Genesis 3:4-6.

It appears that Adam and Eve wanted to be like God and know as much as God. It is Satan's purpose to lead one into religion. To lead one into religion is to lead one into themselves. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality. It is subjective. The Gospel is not subjective, it is objective (outside of us).

The whole purpose of religion is to cause one to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ and to make the Gospel of no effect. In the doctrine of Calvinism it is taught that Jesus is not the savior of the whole world. So, we must conclude that God and Jesus made a deal with the devil wherein Jesus would only atone for the sins of some, but not all. That is not the worst. The worst is predestination. God chooses some to salvation and condemns the rest to hell. That is a real faith killer. How can anyone have faith in a God such as this?

In the Catholic religion, which is highly subjective and is works based, there are a multitude of things that you must do to be saved. Catholics are busy, busy, doing their religion. Catholics are basically doing in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to reconcile themselves to God by their works. The Eucharist is nothing more than an attempt to be like Christ. Instead of trusting in Christ they are trying to be like Christ.

The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.You're too subtle.

We all have the potential of evil. It's how we are created.

We have free will. We have natural and mandated consequences to our actions.

That's the world we live in.

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 11:39 PM
Pate's interpretation happens to be the right interpretation. No wonder
you "Opposers" of Pate attack him constantly.
Buggie, buggie!

The Devil in me wants you to have a green square of "rep power."

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 06:09 AM
You're too subtle.

We all have the potential of evil. It's how we are created.

We have free will. We have natural and mandated consequences to our actions.

That's the world we live in.

We also have the ability to choose good.

We can choose Christ and be saved.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 06:10 AM
We also have the ability to choose good.

We can choose Christ and be saved.

False and invalid statement, not supported by scripture !

Samie
October 23rd, 2015, 07:00 AM
I don't agree with your article.I respect your position.


Only those who come to Christ to be saved by him are written in the book of life.Then you are teaching salvation by works, for until one COMES to Christ first, he cannot be written there.


It is not predetermined who those are.We all were written there, but only overcomers will not be blotted out from it (Rev 3:5).

Samie
October 23rd, 2015, 07:08 AM
I read Samies articles and don't agree with his views, and agree with yours Robert.

If God will have all men to be saved, He lied (according to Samie).I simply quoted Scriptures:

KJV 1 Timothy 2:3-4 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 07:10 AM
I respect your position.

Then you are teaching salvation by works, for until one COMES to Christ first, he cannot be written there.

We all were written there, but only overcomers will not be blotted out from it (Rev 3:5).

Coming to Christ to be saved by him is not a work, nor is believing and having faith in Christ a work.

Even if it is a work it is not a work that saves.

iouae
October 23rd, 2015, 08:02 AM
I simply quoted Scriptures:

KJV 1 Timothy 2:3-4 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I come back to my question to you and others...
What was God's plan to save the BC Eskimo?

From reading your site, it seems all have their names in the Book of Life but the BC Eskimo does not know he has to overcome, so he is toast.

That does not sound like God willing all to be saved. And what method did God initiate to give the BC Eskimo a chance?
I have told you before that the Eskimo is resurrected in the 8M when Christ rules on earth, and given their first chance to accept him. They are the rest of the dead who live not till the 1000 years are past that Rev 20:5 speaks of. This same resurrection is described in Ezek 37.

At least I have a viable solution that makes God fair, and allows Him to get His will that all (have a chance to) be saved. You seem to have nothing.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 08:05 AM
Coming to Christ to be saved by him is not a work, nor is believing and having faith in Christ a work.

Even if it is a work it is not a work that saves.

Those Christ Lived and died for are saved by that alone ! He for them obeyed Gods Law Perfectly for them. You dont believe when one obeys Gods Commandments perfectly, that they shall inherit eternal life ?

Hear Jesus own words Matt 19:16-19


16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

False Prophet
October 23rd, 2015, 08:23 AM
Religion is building your own tower into heaven.
“Let’s build a city and a tower for ourselves, whose top will reach high into the sky. We will become famous. Then we will not be scattered over all the earth.”

5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the people had built. 6 The Lord said, “Now, these people are united, all speaking the same language. This is only the beginning of what they will do. They will be able to do anything they want. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not be able to understand each other.” Gen 11 NCV
This is religion: everybody speaking a different language, but they are all going to the same place. We see in Revelation 18 that Babylon is destroyed. This is what is first referenced as the tower of Babel.

“Ruined, ruined is the great city of Babylon!
What does God say?
“Come out of that city, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive the disasters that will come to her. Rev 18:4

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 10:51 AM
Religion is building your own tower into heaven.
“Let’s build a city and a tower for ourselves, whose top will reach high into the sky. We will become famous. Then we will not be scattered over all the earth.”

5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the people had built. 6 The Lord said, “Now, these people are united, all speaking the same language. This is only the beginning of what they will do. They will be able to do anything they want. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not be able to understand each other.” Gen 11 NCV
This is religion: everybody speaking a different language, but they are all going to the same place. We see in Revelation 18 that Babylon is destroyed. This is what is first referenced as the tower of Babel.

“Ruined, ruined is the great city of Babylon!
What does God say?
“Come out of that city, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive the disasters that will come to her. Rev 18:4


I agree, religion is man conceived doctrine that usually comes out of the brain of a heretic.

It is always anti-Gospel and anti-bible.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 10:59 AM
I agree, religion is man conceived doctrine that usually comes out of the brain of a heretic.

It is always anti-Gospel and anti-bible.

Religion teaches that God is unjust like you do! You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in Hell lost in their sins in unbelief!

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 11:05 AM
Religion teaches that God is unjust like you do! You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in Hell lost in their sins in unbelief!

Yep, because just like you they do not believe that Jesus has saved them, John 3:18.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 11:11 AM
Yep, because just like you they do not believe that Jesus has saved them, John 3:18.

Those Christ lived and died for have perfectly obeyed the Law, that makes them believers! How can someone perfectly obey the Law of God without believing?

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 11:13 AM
Those Christ lived and died for have perfectly obeyed the Law, that makes them believers! How can someone perfectly obey the Law of God without believing?

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, because he loves the whole world, John 3:16.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 23rd, 2015, 11:15 AM
Pate, don't even bother arguing with B57. He's a waste of everyone's time.

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 11:30 AM
Pate, don't even bother arguing with B57. He's a waste of everyone's time.

I agree.

beloved57
October 23rd, 2015, 12:03 PM
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, because he loves the whole world, John 3:16.

You dont believe that scripture, nor understand it, You believe that those Christ has made Righteous, Perfect, shall yet die in their sins in unbelief, making God Unjust !

Samie
October 23rd, 2015, 12:58 PM
Coming to Christ to be saved by him is not a work, nor is believing and having faith in Christ a work.That's according to you. Since when is the verb "come" not an action word?


Even if it is a work it is not a work that saves.Yet you place it before what God through Christ did for us all. You are teaching people are born hell-bound until written in the Book of Life. That's a works-based salvation.

I teach people are born heaven-bound until deleted from it. That's pure grace-based salvation.

Robert Pate
October 24th, 2015, 10:21 AM
That's according to you. Since when is the verb "come" not an action word?

Yet you place it before what God through Christ did for us all. You are teaching people are born hell-bound until written in the Book of Life. That's a works-based salvation.

I teach people are born heaven-bound until deleted from it. That's pure grace-based salvation.


Nope, we are born sinners, Psalm 51:5.

"Wherfore as by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12.

Adam is your great, grandfather. You have his genes and his blood coursing through your veins. As Adam goes, so you go.

No one is born saved. If that were true Christ died in vain.

aikido7
October 24th, 2015, 03:58 PM
We also have the ability to choose good.

We can choose Christ and be saved.Amen. Absolutely.

I am curious as to how you understood my post:


We all have the potential of evil. It's how we are created.

We have free will. We have natural and mandated consequences to our actions.

You seem to have missed reading and thinking about what I said. Because we live with inner evil or cruelty to others every day does not mean we are "forced" by some mythic horned character to do only bad things.

Sometimes it helps me to go over Genesis again with a focused mind. And the story of the Garden and humankind is incredibly deep and informative.
And, in the end, God pronounced it as "good." That meant the talking snake as well.

Robert Pate
October 25th, 2015, 08:44 AM
Amen. Absolutely.

I am curious as to how you understood my post:



You seem to have missed reading and thinking about what I said. Because we live with inner evil or cruelty to others every day does not mean we are "forced" by some mythic horned character to do only bad things.

Sometimes it helps me to go over Genesis again with a focused mind. And the story of the Garden and humankind is incredibly deep and informative.
And, in the end, God pronounced it as "good." That meant the talking snake as well.


All who come to Christ to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians keeper and is a restraint from sinning.

This is what makes the Christian different from the unsaved. This is what makes us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

The talking snake who is Satan, has his end in the lake of fire.

beloved57
October 25th, 2015, 09:24 AM
All who come to Christ to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians keeper and is a restraint from sinning.

This is what makes the Christian different from the unsaved. This is what makes us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

The talking snake who is Satan, has his end in the lake of fire.

Invalid comments not supported by scripture!

aikido7
October 25th, 2015, 10:56 AM
All who come to Christ to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians keeper and is a restraint from sinning.

This is what makes the Christian different from the unsaved. This is what makes us witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

The talking snake who is Satan, has his end in the lake of fire.

I expected you to answer me directly. I really wasn't looking for theological language.

OCTOBER23
October 25th, 2015, 11:04 AM
ROBERT PATE said,

Satan deceives through religion.
If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God,
you are a candidate to be deceived.
---------------------------------------------------------
SO ARE YOU ROBERT

Robert Pate
October 27th, 2015, 08:30 AM
ROBERT PATE said,

Satan deceives through religion.
If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God,
you are a candidate to be deceived.
---------------------------------------------------------
SO ARE YOU ROBERT

I don't think so.

I do not desire to be like God, nor do I try to know all that God knows.

We only know what is revealed to us in the scriptures.

jamie
October 27th, 2015, 09:52 AM
I do not desire to be like God...


And you have succeeded amazingly well in not being like God.

Caino
October 27th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Satan deceives through religion. If it is your desire to be like God or to know as much as God, you are a candidate to be deceived.

Adam and Eve bought the devils lie that if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden they would be as God's knowing good from evil. Of course it was lie and caused them to lose their relationship with God and their home in the garden, Genesis 3:4-6.

It appears that Adam and Eve wanted to be like God and know as much as God. It is Satan's purpose to lead one into religion. To lead one into religion is to lead one into themselves. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality. It is subjective. The Gospel is not subjective, it is objective (outside of us).

The whole purpose of religion is to cause one to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ and to make the Gospel of no effect. In the doctrine of Calvinism it is taught that Jesus is not the savior of the whole world. So, we must conclude that God and Jesus made a deal with the devil wherein Jesus would only atone for the sins of some, but not all. That is not the worst. The worst is predestination. God chooses some to salvation and condemns the rest to hell. That is a real faith killer. How can anyone have faith in a God such as this?

In the Catholic religion, which is highly subjective and is works based, there are a multitude of things that you must do to be saved. Catholics are busy, busy, doing their religion. Catholics are basically doing in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to reconcile themselves to God by their works. The Eucharist is nothing more than an attempt to be like Christ. Instead of trusting in Christ they are trying to be like Christ.

The Gospel is a really, really simple message. It is so simple that many are offended by it.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done, or will do, is ours by faith alone. That's it! Do you believe it? Not many do, they want to add something to it. In Jesus Christ we have been, sanctified, justified and redeemed, That's it! When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him, That's it! God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ", That's it! All that God requires of you is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so you minds should be corrupted through the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.


I have no faith in your Satan God, my faith is in the true God. Satan is a cigar butt!

beloved57
October 27th, 2015, 10:43 AM
I don't think so.

I do not desire to be like God, nor do I try to know all that God knows.

We only know what is revealed to us in the scriptures.

You don't believe the scriptures!

Robert Pate
October 27th, 2015, 11:19 AM
And you have succeeded amazingly well in not being like God.

I am "The Chief of All Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

aikido7
October 27th, 2015, 02:28 PM
I have no faith in your Satan God, my faith is in the true God. Satan is a cigar butt!

But he said to them, "I was beholding Satan himself who fell like lightning from Heaven."

God has already won. The good news is that Satan/evil has not triumphed. WILL not triumph.

aikido7
October 27th, 2015, 02:30 PM
...We only know what is revealed to us in the scriptures...

Everyone gets a different interpretation or revelation. Even if we still believe the Bible is "inerrant," that does not then mean that our understanding of it is also inerrant!

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 10:03 AM
But he said to them, "I was beholding Satan himself who fell like lightning from Heaven."

God has already won. The good news is that Satan/evil has not triumphed. WILL not triumph.

Satan is still alive and well, but his days are numbered.

Spiritually he has been defeated, but he is still a hinderance to Christ and his Gospel.

aikido7
October 28th, 2015, 10:28 AM
Satan is still alive and well, but his days are numbered.

Spiritually he has been defeated, but he is still a hinderance to Christ and his Gospel.We are always going to have problems and difficulties. That's the way it is. That's life.

The problems can be attributed to Satan, but to me that outlook lets me off the hook for considering how my own free will is actually responsible for the life I lead and the cards I am dealt.

I believe sin comes from no other entity than myself.

I have not found it useful to believe in a literal Devil.

But that's just me.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 28th, 2015, 10:40 AM
We are always going to have problems and difficulties. That's the way it is. That's life.

The problems can be attributed to Satan, but to me that outlook lets me off the hook for considering how my own free will is actually responsible for the life I lead and the cards I am dealt.

I believe sin comes from no other entity than myself.

I have not found it useful to believe in a literal Devil.

But that's just me.

Then, you reject the Scriptures that speak about Satan huh? What other Scriptures do you reject?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 28th, 2015, 10:43 AM
I have no faith in your Satan God, my faith is in the true God. Satan is a cigar butt!

That's because you're a cultist. You don't trust in the Bible.
You place your faith in, The Urantia Book.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 28th, 2015, 10:47 AM
I don't think so.

I do not desire to be like God, nor do I try to know all that God knows.

We only know what is revealed to us in the scriptures.

Amen.

beloved57
October 28th, 2015, 10:48 AM
Satan is still alive and well, but his days are numbered.

Spiritually he has been defeated, but he is still a hinderance to Christ and his Gospel.

False comment and blasphemy, satan can't hinder the Gospel, the Power of God!

aikido7
October 28th, 2015, 11:47 AM
Then, you reject the Scriptures that speak about Satan huh? What other Scriptures do you reject?I don't reject ANY of the Bible. But I am living in a modern environment. Since the Enlightenment we preference the scientific method and no longer are inhabitants of the ancient, three-level universe of biblical times.

Both Copernicus and Galileo challenged this universe and got a major "push-back" from the church. In fact, it was not until recently that Pope Benedict (I think) publicly apologized to Galileo for the way he was treated by ecclesiastical power.

Snakes do not really talk (nor have they ever) but the things the snake said in our foundational Creation myth should be taken seriously--as a Christian.

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 11:58 AM
We are always going to have problems and difficulties. That's the way it is. That's life.

The problems can be attributed to Satan, but to me that outlook lets me off the hook for considering how my own free will is actually responsible for the life I lead and the cards I am dealt.

I believe sin comes from no other entity than myself.

I have not found it useful to believe in a literal Devil.

But that's just me.

The Bible teaches a real live living devil.

Paul said that Satan hindered him, 1 Thessalonians 2:18.

aikido7
October 28th, 2015, 12:05 PM
The Bible teaches a real live living devil.

Paul said that Satan hindered him, 1 Thessalonians 2:18.There is not a literal "Devil" or "Satan." But that does not mean that I do not take the things he says or does in the Bible seriously.

It's always easy to say "the Devil made me do it" instead of being responsible for our own behavior.

My faith in Jesus tells me that God has already been proven victorious. Death and the powers and principalities are not the final word.

"I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash." --Luke 10:18 from the Holman Christian Standard Bible.

I, too, can say that Satan hinders me. But in doing so I realize I am using an ancient theological formulation as a "cause" for the evil I encounter or participate in.

But to literally accept the existence of an actual malevolent creature makes no common sense to me.

Robert Pate
October 28th, 2015, 12:09 PM
There is not a literal "Devil" or "Satan." But that does not mean that I do not take the things he says or does in the Bible seriously.

It's always easy to say "the Devil made me do it" instead of being responsible for our own behavior.

My faith in Jesus tells me that God has already been proven victorious. Death and the powers and principalities are not the final word.

"I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash." --Luke 10:18 from the Holman Christian Standard Bible.


Some people are demon possesed and do the devils work.