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CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 02:37 AM
The Gentile converts had the same law.

Exodus 12:49
The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

Leviticus 7:7
“‘The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Numbers 15:16
The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.’”

Numbers 15:29
One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.

Ephesians 2:15
This verse is not correctly translated. See commentary below.
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 1:8
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Hebrews 10:1
The law is a shadow of better things to come.

James 1:25
But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 02:39 AM
The barrier to winning converts to Judaism had been the Commandments of Moses, they govern the feasts and sacrifices. Moses Commandments were the middle wall partition.

Here is my translation of Ephesians 2:14-19. 14
For he is our peace, who has made us one, and has broken down the middle wall partition, 15. By abolishing with his flesh the hostility of the commandment laws of ordinances; for to create in himself and us, one new man, making peace; 16. thereby reconciling us to God in one body through the stake, having slain the hostility. 17. He came to those near and far preaching peace. 18. For through him we both have access to one Spirit, the Father. 19. Therefore you are not alienated foreigners, but citizens with the holy household of God.

Enmity means "hostility."

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the stake, having slain the enmity thereby:

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Hostility towards the laws of God is what has been abolished.

Christians often refer to Ephesians 2:15 in the N.I.V. as proof that the commandments have been done away with.

Ephesians 2:15 N.I.V.: by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Ephesians 2:15 King James. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;.
Note:The word [enmity] in the K.J. means hostility.

(Ephesians 2:15 (a modern translation.) by abolishing in his flesh the hostility of the law with its commandments and regulations.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:17: Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets...

The Sabbath feasts and sacrifices were not given as Commandments of God, but God commanded (ordered) Moses to speak to the Israelites about them. That is why God, in Isaiah 1:11-14 it says, "Who has asked this of you," The Sabbath feasts and sacrifices were given as part of the covenant, for which the Israelites continually broke.
As a result of that, God says in Zephaniah 3:18, "the sorrows for the appointed feast I will remove from you; they are a burden and a reproach to you."
The Sabbath feasts and sacrifices were given as a command of Moses. I am able to say with certainty that there is to be no more animal sacrifices for sins.

According to 2 Chronicles 8:12-13; 12 On the altar of the LORD that he had built in front of the portico, Solomon sacrificed burnt offerings to the LORD, 13 according to the daily requirement for offerings commanded by Moses for Sabbaths, New Moons and the three annual feasts—the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Tabernacles.

Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 04:06 AM
Joshua copied the laws of Moses onto stone also.

Joshua 8:32
There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua copied on stones the laws of Moses, which he had written.

2 Corinthians 3:7
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,…


In regards to "Ministry of The Spirit." What that means is that you keep God's commandments, not because they are written in stone and are law, but because they are written in your heart; and you keep them for the love of God and your fellow man, because it is the right thing to do. "The ministry that brought death" is the Mosaic laws of the priesthood, not God's commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:8
will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

Deuteronomy 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Note: The commandments were written in stone. There are two sets of laws, God's commandment laws, and the priestly Levitical law. The Levitical laws brought death to those who would not keep the laws.

Romans 10:4
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
4 For Christ is the end[a] of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Footnotes: a. Romans 10:4 Or goal

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The commandments and good works have not been done away with. All Paul is getting at is that you cannot buy your way into heaven just by keeping the commandments and good works. Evil people can keep the law and do good works. Such people have even been known to hide among us.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 4:12
to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Matthew 5:19
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of the commandments and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches the commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 04:14 AM
The Gentiles whom did not have the written laws, but were keeping them, because they were written upon their hearts.

Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

jamie
October 17th, 2015, 07:21 AM
The Gentile converts had the same law.



But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:5 NKJV)

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment... (Acts 15:24 NKJV)

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 12:00 PM
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:5 NKJV)

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment... (Acts 15:24 NKJV)

Covenant and non-covenant circumcision. Non-Covenant circumcision is practiced by many Christians these days, but it does not mean they are under the old covenant. Covenant circumcision was to be continual until the New Covenant was established. Forever is forever, unless there should come a change. Circumcision, Festivals, sacrifices, and the old priesthood is what was done away with. The Sabbath and moral commands of God remain as part of the New Covenant.

Genesis 17:13
Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an (everlasting / continual) covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-32
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
32
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 12:26 PM
The Gentiles whom did not have the written laws, but were keeping them, because they were written upon their hearts.

Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

So, what is the difference between obeying the Law when it is written upon our hearts and the Law when it is written upon two tablets of stones as long as the Law is obeyed? The point is obedience to the Law period and not HOW it is obeyed.

patrick jane
October 17th, 2015, 12:33 PM
So, what is the difference between obeying the Law when it is written upon our hearts and the Law when it is written upon two tablets of stones as long as the Law is obeyed? The point is obedience to the Law period and not HOW it is obeyed.

Galatians 3:16 KJV - Galatians 3:17 KJV - Galatians 3:18 KJV -


Galatians 3:19 KJV - Galatians 3:20-21 KJV - Galatians 3:22 KJV -


Galatians 3:23 KJV - Galatians 3:24-25 KJV - Galatians 3:26 KJV -

WonderfulLordJesus
October 17th, 2015, 12:35 PM
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Romans 3:20-24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 12:57 PM
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Romans 3:20-24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Good post.

To be under the law is to be judged by the law.

The law is the very nature and the character of God. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be judged according to God's standards.

Maybe this is why Paul said to the Galatians... "Do you not hear the law"?

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 12:57 PM
Galatians 3:16 KJV - Galatians 3:17 KJV - Galatians 3:18 KJV -

Galatians 3:19 KJV - Galatians 3:20-21 KJV - Galatians 3:22 KJV -

Galatians 3:23 KJV -[B] [SIZE="4"]Galatians 3:24-25 KJV Gal. 3:26 KJV -

None of the quotes above answers my question. I repeat: What's the difference between the Law written in the heart and the Law written in stones, as long as the Law is obeyed? The point is not how the Law is obeyed but that it is obeyed. To tell you the truth, based on this concept, there is no difference between a Jew and a Christian as the Law is concerned as we all obey it.

aikido7
October 17th, 2015, 01:03 PM
The Gentile converts had the same law.

Exodus 12:49
The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

Leviticus 7:7
“‘The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Numbers 15:16
The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.’”

Numbers 15:29
One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.

Ephesians 2:15
This verse is not correctly translated. See commentary below.
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 1:8
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Hebrews 10:1
The law is a shadow of better things to come.

James 1:25
But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.These important verses highlight the Jewish tradition that extends God's love and mercy to all.

This tradition piggy-backs on the theology of Paul. His outreach to "the nations" was still a pretty revolutionary idea.

There are many other different traditions, interwoven throughout the Bible: blood sacrifice vs. repentance, the empty tomb tradition (which Paul does not seem aware of--he merely says Jesus was "buried") and one other that is paramount to me: Paul does not mention any virgin birth tradition as do Luke and Matthew. He states only that Jesus was "born of a woman."

Matthew, Luke and Paul wrote their accounts after Jesus had already died. In sequence, Paul wrote in the 50s, Matthew wrote around the 70s or 80s, as did Luke.

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 01:06 PM
Good post.

To be under the law is to be judged by the law.

The law is the very nature and the character of God. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be judged according to God's standards.

Maybe this is why Paul said to the Galatians... "Do you not hear the law"?

Sorry Robert, but you are totally wrong. To be under the Law is to obey the Law aka to be a Law abide citizen of the kingdom of God.

Every one is judged either according to God's Law or the law of the land, whether one claims to be under the law or not.

WonderfulLordJesus
October 17th, 2015, 01:13 PM
Good post.

To be under the law is to be judged by the law.

The law is the very nature and the character of God. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be judged according to God's standards.

Maybe this is why Paul said to the Galatians... "Do you not hear the law"?

Thank you, Robert, and so obviously true the law saves nobody. There are many cults out there pushing legal bondage, which actually involves doctrines of demons, in denial of clear teachings of holy scripture, the goal, as always, to try and inject doubt of the word of God and His salvation by grace. This is pandemic in our times, but thanks be to God they never seem to get any converts. Those verses speak for themselves, like so much scripture, the bottom line matter that people either accept or reject clear truths, are of the true faith of God, Jesus Christ, or not.

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 02:35 PM
So, what is the difference between obeying the Law when it is written upon our hearts and the Law when it is written upon two tablets of stones as long as the Law is obeyed? The point is obedience to the Law period and not HOW it is obeyed.

The difference is between doing what you have to, and doing what you want to. The written laws did not make better persons, but better persons would want to keep the laws.

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 02:44 PM
These important verses highlight the Jewish tradition that extends God's love and mercy to all.

This tradition piggy-backs on the theology of Paul. His outreach to "the nations" was still a pretty revolutionary idea.

There are many other different traditions, interwoven throughout the Bible: blood sacrifice vs. repentance, the empty tomb tradition (which Paul does not seem aware of--he merely says Jesus was "buried") and one other that is paramount to me: Paul does not mention any virgin birth tradition as do Luke and Matthew. He states only that Jesus was "born of a woman."

Matthew, Luke and Paul wrote their accounts after Jesus had already died. In sequence, Paul wrote in the 50s, Matthew wrote around the 70s or 80s, as did Luke.

Actually, the word "virgin" is not scriptural, but was added. Although Mary was a virgin, the scriptures really use the word "maiden," which means; young woman. Mary was about perhaps 14 years old when she gave birth to Yahshua.

WonderfulLordJesus
October 17th, 2015, 03:08 PM
Actually, the word "virgin" is not scriptural, but was added. Although Mary was a virgin, the scriptures really use the word "maiden," which means; young woman. Mary was about perhaps 14 years old when she gave birth to Yahshua.

Not so. First, the Hebrew:

`almah (al-maw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5959

1. virgin, young woman of marriageable age
2. maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament)

You have no call to say virgin is not scriptural, more certainly nothing was added.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth. Try context some time: you may find it enlightening.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

jamie
October 17th, 2015, 05:21 PM
Mary was Jesus' mother and the Holy Spirit was Jesus' father.


Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 1:18 NKJV)

But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:20 NKJV)

CherubRam
October 17th, 2015, 06:11 PM
Not so. First, the Hebrew:

`almah (al-maw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5959

1. virgin, young woman of marriageable age
2. maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament)

You have no call to say virgin is not scriptural, more certainly nothing was added.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth. Try context some time: you may find it enlightening.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The Hebrew word Almah does not mean virgin.
Almah (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמות) is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be (but does not have to be) an unmarried virgin or a married young woman. It does not, in and of itself, indicate whether that woman is a virgin or not.

jamie
October 17th, 2015, 08:04 PM
Virgin?


Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?” (Luke 1:34 NKJV)

patrick jane
October 17th, 2015, 08:10 PM
None of the quotes above answers my question. I repeat: What's the difference between the Law written in the heart and the Law written in stones, as long as the Law is obeyed? The point is not how the Law is obeyed but that it is obeyed. To tell you the truth, based on this concept, there is no difference between a Jew and a Christian as the Law is concerned as we all obey it.

You question is answered in Galatians 3:19 KJV - and all of Galatians 3. Instead of concluding beforehand that the answers aren't in scripture, look to affirm. Watch for the answers, sometimes they're in a different part of the Bible than you think.

aikido7
October 18th, 2015, 01:05 AM
Actually, the word "virgin" is not scriptural, but was added. Although Mary was a virgin, the scriptures really use the word "maiden," which means; young woman. Mary was about perhaps 14 years old when she gave birth to Yahshua.The world that we have always lived in does not allow virgins to give birth. A virgin birth was a metaphor to underline the importance of Jesus. It had nothing to do with Mary's biology.

Believers are often surprised to know this fact of history: In Jesus's day, Caesar was also "born of a virgin," was called "divine" and--literally--known as "Savior of the World." These elevated titles were not only carved into the temple and governmental architecture, they were stamped on the coins that everyone used for commerce in the Roman Empire. The theology of Paul demonstrates he had not yet heard of the tradition that claimed a virgin birth. And he doesn't know about the Empty Tomb tradition, either.

A virgin birth was applied to many heroic figures in Jesus's day. That is the true history of the times, the matrix out of which Jesus's followers did the same thing after his death.

It has always been impossible for any woman to have a baby that was not the product of a human ova and sperm cell.

aikido7
October 18th, 2015, 01:06 AM
Virgin?


Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?” (Luke 1:34 NKJV)Yes. Like Matthew, Luke's agenda was to have Jesus born from God instead of the usual way.

Danoh
October 18th, 2015, 03:07 PM
The Gentile converts had the same law.

Exodus 12:49
The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

Leviticus 7:7
“‘The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Numbers 15:16
The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.’”

Numbers 15:29
One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.

Ephesians 2:15
This verse is not correctly translated. See commentary below.
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 1:8
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly...

You completely miss the very point of Paul's Apostleship; an Apostleship distinct from that of the Twelve, Gal. 2:7-9.

Per Romans 1 thru 3 and 9 thru 11 (the same point which is re-emphasized in Ephesians 2 and 3) Paul's Apostleship among the Gentiles, is among them as Gentiles!

Neither Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, nor Uncircumcision in the flesh, apply in this age, Gal. 5:6.

Per Rom. 1-3; 9-11, the believing remnant of Israel was sealed by God, as His, for their having found (believed on) His Son, Rom. 10.

He then concluded the rest of Israel blind, and temporarily set aside His dealings with that nation according to their covenants and promises, for their unbelief, Rom. 11.

Per those passages, the nation of Israel was concluded under the power of sin with the Gentiles, that God - during this Mystery Age - might not only have mercy on both, and this; absent of the Circumcision distinction, but given this Age's own purpose in Christ, Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1; Eph. 3; 2 Tm. 1:8-11.

steko
October 18th, 2015, 04:28 PM
Actually, the word "virgin" is not scriptural, but was added. Although Mary was a virgin, the scriptures really use the word "maiden," which means; young woman. Mary was about perhaps 14 years old when she gave birth to Yahshua.

Nearly 200 years before Christ, the Jews translated the word 'almah' in the LXX/Septuagint by the Greek word 'parthenos' which always means virgin.The word used in Mat 1:23) is the same. The Parthenon is the Greek temple to the goddess Athena, which the Greeks characterized as being a virgin.



.....and the word is Yeshua not the 1930's made up word Yashua.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 04:35 PM
The world that we have always lived in does not allow virgins to give birth. A virgin birth was a metaphor to underline the importance of Jesus. It had nothing to do with Mary's biology.

Believers are often surprised to know this fact of history: In Jesus's day, Caesar was also "born of a virgin," was called "divine" and--literally--known as "Savior of the World." These elevated titles were not only carved into the temple and governmental architecture, they were stamped on the coins that everyone used for commerce in the Roman Empire.

You were there I take it?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 04:38 PM
A7, You're such a a "faithful" unbeliever! I like that about you. One "Neg-rep"
coming up!

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 04:47 PM
Looks as if we have, a "boatload" of, Pseudo Scholars on this thread?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 18th, 2015, 04:50 PM
Yes. Like Matthew, Luke's agenda was to have Jesus born from God instead of the usual way.

Luke had a "personal" agenda? What's wrong with you? Only tell me
if you know why, you're this way?

Lazy afternoon
October 18th, 2015, 04:55 PM
He then concluded the rest of Israel blind, and temporarily set aside His dealings with that nation according to their covenants and promises, for their unbelief, Rom. 11.

.

There was nothing temporary about it, for the Israel of God consists of the elect raised from all ages and nations in the resurrection and their mortal children also drawn from all nations who believe in Christ from the last 3.5 years leading to the return of Christ.

Rev.ch 14 ch 7 ch 21.

LA

CherubRam
October 18th, 2015, 06:29 PM
Nearly 200 years before Christ, the Jews translated the word 'almah' in the LXX/Septuagint by the Greek word 'parthenos' which always means virgin.The word used in Mat 1:23) is the same. The Parthenon is the Greek temple to the goddess Athena, which the Greeks characterized as being a virgin.



.....and the word is Yeshua not the 1930's made up word Yashua.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not Greek. The letter "e" was not used as a vowel in Hebrew until after 200 AD.

Exodus 23:21.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Yah / wah's helper is Yah / shua.

aikido7
October 18th, 2015, 09:00 PM
You were there I take it?None of us were.

That's why a historical methodology to understand the ancient world must use the evidence, facts and data that were available to any objective viewer during that time and the present.

Only then do historical scholars offer their own conjectures, opinions and interpretations.

And they do it in public for peer and public review.

By the way, there is ample evidence of the same lofty titles applied to Caesar were also applied to Jesus. The birth, the life and the meaning of Caesar was everywhere: it was stamped on the coins we have and has been found carved into the architecture of ancient temples and public buildings.

The Christians knew exactly what they were doing. They appropriated the language of empire and overcame it with a kind of religious ju-jitsu.

Jesus talked about the Kingdom of God "on earth as it is in Heaven." Everyone who heard him knew perfectly well he was pointing to a world where God sits on the throne--not the Roman Emperor.

Luke and Paul's letters show a lot of "anti-imperial" language which used the same words and phrases that the pagan Romans used. And when they did this, they well knew that they were committing high treason.

Ben Masada
October 19th, 2015, 02:04 PM
You question is answered in Galatians 3:19 KJV - and all of Galatians 3. Instead of concluding beforehand that the answers aren't in scripture, look to affirm. Watch for the answers, sometimes they're in a different part of the Bible than you think.

Galatians 3:19 is simply a promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jesus himself said loud and clear: "Of this much a assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter of the Law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away with until it all comes true. (Mat. 5:18) Has heaven and earth passed away yet? I don't think so.

CherubRam
October 20th, 2015, 04:01 AM
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God. Grace does not mean the law has been done away with.

iouae
October 20th, 2015, 11:04 AM
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God. Grace does not mean the law has been done away with.

There are 613 OT laws, most of which apply to a nation, a tabernacle, a priesthood, justice, laws governing sex, slaves, divorce, and capital crimes. So many sins resulted in death.

I have no problem with the OT laws when we have a nation, priesthood, tabernacle etc.

But there are 1050 commands in the NT. I consider these so much more worthy of the Christian's focus. You can find these listed at...
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

CherubRam
October 20th, 2015, 07:12 PM
There are 613 OT laws, most of which apply to a nation, a tabernacle, a priesthood, justice, laws governing sex, slaves, divorce, and capital crimes. So many sins resulted in death.

I have no problem with the OT laws when we have a nation, priesthood, tabernacle etc.

But there are 1050 commands in the NT. I consider these so much more worthy of the Christian's focus. You can find these listed at...
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Under the New Covenant, we only need to concern ourselves with the Sabbath and moral commands of God.

aikido7
October 20th, 2015, 07:41 PM
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God. Grace does not mean the law has been done away with.If you are talking about certain conditions have to be met, you are talking about something else besides "grace."

CherubRam
October 20th, 2015, 07:47 PM
If you are talking about certain conditions have to be met, you are talking about something else besides "grace."

Our salvation is not unconditional.

iouae
October 20th, 2015, 08:13 PM
Under the New Covenant, we only need to concern ourselves with the Sabbath and moral commands of God.

Right! If Christ kept a law, and went to the trouble of mentioning which law He kept in the writings of the NT, then I believe we ought to keep that law.

He kept the Sabbath so we ought to too.

iouae
October 20th, 2015, 08:18 PM
If you are talking about certain conditions have to be met, you are talking about something else besides "grace."

When a traffic officer lets you off with a warning instead of a speeding ticket, is he extending grace to encourage you to go and sin some more?

CherubRam
October 21st, 2015, 03:53 AM
Right! If Christ kept a law, and went to the trouble of mentioning which law He kept in the writings of the NT, then I believe we ought to keep that law.

He kept the Sabbath so we ought to too.

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

aikido7
October 21st, 2015, 04:49 AM
Our salvation is not unconditional.The God of Jesus was unconditional and salvation comes from God. Just in my opinion and interpretation.

If grace comes with conditions, then it is certainly not grace.

And if salvation comes with conditions, then it is not done out of love.

The only condition God requires is to be forgiving and have repentance.
This is the way of Jesus. A required condition of a blood sacrifice was not needed.

aikido7
October 21st, 2015, 04:52 AM
When a traffic officer lets you off with a warning instead of a speeding ticket, is he extending grace to encourage you to go and sin some more?I don't understand the metaphor you are using. I guess I am too tired right now. I have trouble equating Jesus or God as a policeman. But I am sure there is a connection you have made that can teach me something new.

I guess I can say that I am given warnings after every sin and I am continually forgiven by God's grace and love. And hopefully I am evolving.

iouae
October 21st, 2015, 06:55 AM
The God of Jesus was unconditional and salvation comes from God. Just in my opinion and interpretation.

If grace comes with conditions, then it is certainly not grace.

And if salvation comes with conditions, then it is not done out of love.

The only condition God requires is to be forgiving and have repentance.
This is the way of Jesus. A required condition of a blood sacrifice was not needed.

EVERYTHING that God says, does or gives, including grace, comes with conditions. Like the woman caught in adultery was told "Neither do I condemn thee" but here, with the grace, comes the condition "Go and sin no more".

Ben Masada
October 21st, 2015, 01:47 PM
Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

That's a message for all Christians who contend that the Law was abolished on the cross, (Ephes. 2:15) or Jesus was the end of the Law, (Rom. 10:4) or that there was a change of the Law.(Heb. 7:12)

Ben Masada
October 21st, 2015, 01:57 PM
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God. Grace does not mean the law has been done away with.

Very good CherubRam! Grace rather means the medium by which the Law was given. Had not the Law been given, we would not be able to live in society but in a jungle state of disorder. We all must praise the Lord for His grace in giving us the Law.

CherubRam
October 22nd, 2015, 04:18 AM
That's a message for all Christians who contend that the Law was abolished on the cross, (Ephes. 2:15) or Jesus was the end of the Law, (Rom. 10:4) or that there was a change of the Law.(Heb. 7:12)

The New Covenant did bring a change in the law. The commands that were not done away with, was the Sabbath, and moral commands of God. Scriptures state that God removed the sacrifices and festivals, along with the old priesthood. It says so in the Old Testament.

Danoh
October 22nd, 2015, 04:56 AM
The New Covenant did bring a change in the law. The commands that were not done away with, was the Sabbath, and moral commands of God. Scriptures state that God removed the sacrifices and festivals, along with the old priesthood. It says so in the Old Testament.

Paul's writing in Romans 6: 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace" is based on the fact of a different system of acceptance before God, this side of the Cross, that has replaced the Law's "if/then" Performance Based Acceptance, Ex. 19:5.

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Rom. 3:21, 22

Things have gone from "the law for righteousness" to acceptance with God "because of righteousness" Rom. 8:10.

Romans 10:

1. Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

2 Corinthians 5:

21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

CherubRam
October 22nd, 2015, 10:29 AM
Paul's writing in Romans 6: 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace" is based on the fact of a different system of acceptance before God, this side of the Cross, that has replaced the Law's "if/then" Performance Based Acceptance, Ex. 19:5.

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Rom. 3:21, 22

Things have gone from "the law for righteousness" to acceptance with God "because of righteousness" Rom. 8:10.

Romans 10:

1. Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

2 Corinthians 5:

21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hostility towards the laws of God is what has been abolished.

Christians often refer to Ephesians 2:15 in the N.I.V. as proof that the commandments have been done away with.

Ephesians 2:15 N.I.V.: by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Ephesians 2:15 King James. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;.

Note:The word [enmity] in the K.J. means hostility.

(Ephesians 2:15 (a modern translation.) by abolishing in his flesh the hostility of the law with its commandments and regulations.

Romans 10:4
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
4 For Christ is the [goal / end[a] of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Footnotes: a. Romans 10:4 Or goal

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

Wick Stick
October 22nd, 2015, 01:27 PM
Ok, I'm buying what you're selling, mostly. Check and see if this fits what you're saying:

1) There was/is the covenant that God created between Himself and Abraham, and afterwards confirmed to Isaac and Israel.

2) A mediator for the covenant was subsequently established (the Levitical priesthood), because Israel broke the terms of the covenant.

3) The Levites mediated between God and Israel through a system in which the penalties and debt for transgressing the covenant were transferred onto animals (which were sacrificed/exiled), thence to the priests (who ate the animals, and functioned as living sacrifices), thence to the high priest (more sacrifices), and then yearly on the Day of Atonement taken directly to God.

4) The Israelites abused the system of mediation by using it as a "get out of jail free card" and the priests became corrupt and encouraged this behavior for the purpose of their personal financial gain.

5) God did away with the Levitical priesthood (and all associated sacrifices and rituals) due to the abuses.

6) God appointed a different mediator for the covenant, from a different priesthood, who offered a unique one-time sacrifice sufficient to pay the debt of transgression and continues to function as the reconciler of the parties to the covenant.

How'd I do?

Ben Masada
October 22nd, 2015, 01:42 PM
The New Covenant did bring a change in the law. The commands that were not done away with, was the Sabbath, and moral commands of God. Scriptures state that God removed the sacrifices and festivals, along with the old priesthood. It says so in the Old Testament.

You are totally wrong because the New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah if you read Jer. 31:31. Nothing to do with the Gentiles. You must be referring to the NT aka the gospel of Paul. When I speak about the Law, I mean the Decalogue. BTW, if you read Rom. 7:1-7, Paul was also referring to the Decalogue. The text is about an allegory of freedom that the widow enjoys when her husband dies. The same, in the case of Paul, he was referring to freedom from the Law aka the Decalogue with the death of Jesus. If you read verse 7 again, where is it written "Thou shall not covet" if not in the Decalogue? That's the Law that ended in Jesus according to Paul. (Rom. 10:4)

Ben Masada
October 22nd, 2015, 02:00 PM
Ok, I'm buying what you're selling, mostly. Check and see if this fits what you're saying:

1) There was/is the covenant that God created between Himself and Abraham, and afterwards confirmed to Isaac and Israel.

2) A mediator for the covenant was subsequently established (the Levitical priesthood), because Israel broke the terms of the covenant.

3) The Levites mediated between God and Israel through a system in which the penalties and debt for transgressing the covenant were transferred onto animals (which were sacrificed/exiled), thence to the priests (who ate the animals, and functioned as living sacrifices), thence to the high priest (more sacrifices), and then yearly on the Day of Atonement taken directly to God.

4) The Israelites abused the system of mediation by using it as a "get out of jail free card" and the priests became corrupt and encouraged this behavior for the purpose of their personal financial gain.

5) God did away with the Levitical priesthood (and all associated sacrifices and rituals) due to the abuses.

6) God appointed a different mediator for the covenant, from a different priesthood, who offered a unique one-time sacrifice sufficient to pay the debt of transgression and continues to function as the reconciler of the parties to the covenant.

How'd I do?

Good! At least you do well when handling Christian preconceived notions. And like any other Christian, you too don't have a quote from the Tanach to document what you say about God's appointment of a different mediator for the Covenant between God and Israel. Then, nothing about the change of mind in God to allow a human sacrifice for the sins of the People when He had commanded His own Prophets to teach that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; and Ezek. 18:20) Nu!

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 08:46 PM
You were there I take it?Back in your cocoon. There lies happiness and blessed peace....

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 08:48 PM
EVERYTHING that God says, does or gives, including grace, comes with conditions. Like the woman caught in adultery was told "Neither do I condemn thee" but here, with the grace, comes the condition "Go and sin no more".The only "condition" Jesus seems to mention is to approach the God of mercy with repentance and a contrite heart.

No bloody sacrifice needed.

"Your faith has saved you."
He sure wasn't talking about Easter faith.

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 08:50 PM
When a traffic officer lets you off with a warning instead of a speeding ticket, is he extending grace to encourage you to go and sin some more?Sinning or not is always up to us. If we still want to sin after what Jesus or a policeman tells us, it is up to us.

God gave us free will and declared Creation "good." A number of times, if I remember right.

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 08:52 PM
EVERYTHING that God says, does or gives, including grace, comes with conditions. Like the woman caught in adultery was told "Neither do I condemn thee" but here, with the grace, comes the condition "Go and sin no more".He did not say this or offer this after the crucifixion.

Salvation is always about transformation in this life.

Jesus offered and granted salvation to many before he was killed on a Roman cross.

Didn't he?

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 08:56 PM
A7, You're such a a "faithful" unbeliever! I like that about you. One "Neg-rep"
coming up!
I would never give anyone a negative rep just because they are unaware of history or have different beliefs. But hey, that's just what I learn from Jesus. You very well know I am disappointed that slaves of the Devil like myself cannot give you a green little box to communicate some positive regard.

I know you are doing the best you can here with the information and beliefs you have.

If you are going to save up some little red squares for me, would you mind using PlayDough? I still like the smell.

CherubRam
October 23rd, 2015, 05:21 AM
You are totally wrong because the New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah if you read Jer. 31:31. Nothing to do with the Gentiles. You must be referring to the NT aka the gospel of Paul. When I speak about the Law, I mean the Decalogue. BTW, if you read Rom. 7:1-7, Paul was also referring to the Decalogue. The text is about an allegory of freedom that the widow enjoys when her husband dies. The same, in the case of Paul, he was referring to freedom from the Law aka the Decalogue with the death of Jesus. If you read verse 7 again, where is it written "Thou shall not covet" if not in the Decalogue? That's the Law that ended in Jesus according to Paul. (Rom. 10:4)

The words "Judah" and "Israel" are often used as a parable to mean "faithful" and "nation." By the way, there is lots of scriptures about Gentiles becoming also the people of God. I have never seen such a great multitude of errors. You should not be teaching what the bible says.

Wick Stick
October 23rd, 2015, 03:19 PM
And like any other Christian, you too don't have a quote from the Tanach to document what you say about God's appointment of a different mediator for the Covenant between God and Israel.
Do you agree that God set aside the Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system due to abuse of the system? :think: While that certainly finds expression in the prophets (e.g. Amos 5:21), it isn't accepted by any Jews I have met to date.

As for the appointment of a new mediator, you may have some trouble finding the English word "mediator," as most translators seem to have rendered the Hebrew word (YKCh, H3198) as "reprover" or "rebuke." They are the same thing, though, and you can find this word throughout the writings of the prophets. Isa 2:4, since you want an example.

When the New Testament was written, the writers closely followed the usage of the LXX in determining which Greek words to use for inherently Hebrew words and concepts. It would be nice if the guys translating into English had put their heads together and made it so that the same English word used in the OT, was also used in the NT for the same idea. Alas, it is not so, and the NT has suffered from mis-interpretation ever since.



Then, nothing about the change of mind in God to allow a human sacrifice for the sins of the People when He had commanded His own Prophets to teach that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; and Ezek. 18:20) Nu!
We already had this discussion. "A man cannot die for the sins of another" is a faulty conclusion based on what is written.

A correct conclusion is "a man cannot die for his own sins, and also the sins of another." Plug in a man without sin to that equation, and you get a different result.

Jarrod

Elia
November 17th, 2015, 05:54 AM
Joshua copied the laws of Moses onto stone also.

Bs"d

And that in 70 languages.



In regards to "Ministry of The Spirit." What that means is that you keep God's commandments, not because they are written in stone and are law, but because they are written in your heart; and you keep them for the love of God and your fellow man, because it is the right thing to do.

As we all know; there is not a single Christian who does the law.


"The ministry that brought death" is the Mosaic laws of the priesthood, not God's commandments.

What is commonly called "the Mosaic law" is not the law of Moses, but the law of God.

Some examples: " Again Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses, saying, 38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of Y-H-W-H and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God. 41 I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am Y-H-W-H your God.”
Numbers 15

Another example:

"Now Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth: 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud—that you may eat."
Lev 11

"And Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of Y-H-W-H, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Passover of Y-H-W-H. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to Y-H-W-H; seven days you must eat unleavened bread."
Lev 23

As everybody can see, this is not the law of Moses, but the law of God.

Only because it is given through Moses is it called "Mosaic law", but it is GODs law.

And Gods laws stand forever.



Note: The commandments were written in stone. There are two sets of laws, God's commandment laws, and the priestly Levitical law. The Levitical laws brought death to those who would not keep the laws.

There is only ONE set of laws, and that is Gods laws.

And for those who transgress Gods laws punishment awaits.
.
.
.

Elia
November 17th, 2015, 06:08 AM
Not so. First, the Hebrew:

`almah (al-maw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5959

1. virgin, young woman of marriageable age
2. maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament)

You have no call to say virgin is not scriptural, more certainly nothing was added.

Bs"d



The vast majority of the English translations are hopelessly corrupted in Isaiah 7:14. Here is the footnote of the Contemporary English Version, who says "virgin" there:
Isaiah 7:14 virgin: Or "young woman." In this context the difficult Hebrew word did not imply a virgin birth. However, in the Greek translation made about 200 (B.C. )and used by the early Christians, the word parthenos had a double meaning. While the translator took it to mean "young woman," Matthew understood it to mean "virgin" and quoted the passage (Matthew 1.23) because it was the appropriate description of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

They do admit it doesn't imply a virgin birth, but they still mistranslate it as such.

Revised Standard Version: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el."

New World Translation: "Therefore J-e-h-o-v-a-h himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Im·man´u·el."

The Hebrew word is "almah", and here you can see what it means:

http://www.milon.co.il/general/general.php?term=%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%94

You can also look here in this Hebrew interlinear and see what it means in the translation right under the Hebrew word: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

Don't look on the side, because that has the corrupted KJV.

Also in google translate you can see what "almah" means:

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&ie=UTF8#iw|en|%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%94

Here is websters online dictionary for "almah": http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/%25D7%25A2%25D7%259C%25D7%259E%25D7%2594?cx=partne r-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%94&sa=Search#922

So now you know what it means: "girl, young woman", and NOT virgin.

Now you also know how you are being lied to by corrupted translations.


Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth. Try context some time: you may find it enlightening.

The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of two neighboring kings.
It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman is pregnant and is giving birth to a son, and she called his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.

We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.

So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

So God gave a sign to Achaz.

In the days of Achaz.

About 700 years before JC.

So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

These are only misconceptions of the NT.

However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

So what the NT does here, is taking a text which does not speak about the messiah, ripping it out of context, mistranslating it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then presenting it to us as a messianic prophecy.

So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.

Look here for more reasons why nobody should believe in the New Testament: http://mountzion.notlong.com
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Elia
November 17th, 2015, 06:18 AM
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth.

Bs"d

What kind of sign would a virgin birth 700 years after Achaz have been for Achaz??

What kind of a sign would a virgin birth have been for the people living in the time of JC?

They see a young woman getting pregnant, and giving birth to a son.
Hardly a world shaking event. Happens all the time.

But she was a virgin!

Well, how was the rest of the world to know??

When people see a young woman getting pregnant, everybody assumes she got pregnant the normal way, just like everybody else.

You can of course claim to still be a virgin, but who will take that claim seriously?

How is that claim to be verified?

When Mary was about to give birth, did the people of her village come to look between her legs, see that the hymen was still intact, and cry out: "A miracle! This virgin is about to give birth!"?

So what kind of sign is a virgin, giving birth??
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achduke
November 17th, 2015, 07:00 AM
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:5 NKJV)

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment... (Acts 15:24 NKJV)

You are missing the beginning of this paragraph.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Circumcision does not save. Neither does following any other law. Circumcision is obedience just like all the other laws. You are not save from following the law but those that are saved are obedient. Once saved the spirit will lead you to obedience. Anything else is just self-righteousness.

Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.

beloved57
November 17th, 2015, 07:01 AM
Man began as a Gentile in Adam, and the Law of God was first given to man in Adam !