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Angel4Truth
October 14th, 2015, 05:07 PM
Report: Even Atheists, Agnostics, Nonreligious Americans See Evidence for Creator (http://christiannews.net/2015/10/12/report-even-atheists-agnostics-nonreligious-americans-see-evidence-for-creator/)


NASHVILLE – Nearly half of atheists, agnostics, and those with no religious preference in the U.S. see evidence in the universe for a creator, according to just-released polling data from a major research organization.

LifeWay Research is a Nashville-based polling group that frequently surveys Americans on matters of faith and culture. The group’s latest report, “American Views on Reasons to Believe in a Creator (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/files/2015/10/American-Views-on-Reasons-to-Believe-in-a-Creator.pdf),” shows surprising insights on the number of people who believe in a creator.

According to the study, 72% of all Americans think that because the universe has organization, there is a creator who designed it. Over half of participants—52%—strongly agreed with that statement, while only 11% strongly disagreed.

Surprisingly, even nonreligious Americans admit that the evidence for a creator is undeniable. 46% of atheists, agnostics, and those without religious preferences also think that the universe’s organization bears witness to a creator.

Romans 1:20 says the invisible things of God “are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made.”

LifeWay Research collected their data through a phone survey of 1,000 individuals. The sample provides 95% confidence that the sampling error does not exceed 3.5%, according to the polling group.

The organization of the universe is not the only evidence that points to a creator, many respondents said. Overall, two-thirds of Americans agree with the statement, “Since people have morality, I think there is a creator who defines morality.”

Furthermore, 79% of those surveyed said the very fact that humans exist means someone created us. A relatively small minority, 16%, disagreed with that conclusion.

The fact that so many Americans, including nonreligious people, see evidence for a creator is remarkable, said Ed Stetzer, executive director of LifeWay Research.

“People who seek to set out reasons to believe, often called apologetics, have historically framed their argument in similar ways,” Stetzer said in a statement last week (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/2015/10/07/nonreligious-americans-see-evidence-of-creator/). “The large number of nonreligious people agreeing with some of these arguments points us to a surprising openness to classic apologetic arguments. Or, put another way, even nonreligious people are open to the idea there is a creator.”

LifeWay Research further broke down their findings based on survey participants’ region, age, gender, education level, and ethnicity, finding that older Americans are more likely to see evidence of a creator than younger Americans. Likewise, women are more likely than men to believe that the existence of human life points to a creator.

In the eyes of many Americans, both science and morality attest to the existence of a creator. Mary Jo Sharp, a professor at Houston Baptist University, said the atheistic worldview struggles to provide cogent explanations for the universe around us.

“The infinitesimal odds that life arose by blind chance is a formidable argument,” Sharp said in the statement from LifeWay Research.

“The existence of good and evil is difficult to explain from an atheistic worldview, because in that view, there is no stable external grounding outside of humans for a standard of goodness,” she added.

These survey findings are helpful, Stetzer said, because they show that an unexpectedly large number of Americans recognize that the creation was likely created.

“In an increasingly secular age, where the Christian faith has perhaps lost its home-field advantage, Christians will need to make their case for the creator and ultimately for the gospel,” he stated. “It appears people—even nonreligious people—are indeed open to apologetics arguments, if Christians will actually make them.”

journey
October 14th, 2015, 06:42 PM
Psalms 19:1-6 KJV The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

glorydaz
October 14th, 2015, 07:58 PM
Yep. I'm surprised so many admit it. They'll deny it with the next breath, though. :chuckle:

6days
October 14th, 2015, 08:37 PM
Yep. I'm surprised so many admit it. They'll deny it with the next breath, though. :chuckle:

And.... here in TOL, it seems many that deny Him, are angry at Him. Hmmmmmmm. How can anyone be angry at something that doesn't exist?

George Affleck
October 14th, 2015, 08:40 PM
Yep. I'm surprised so many admit it. They'll deny it with the next breath, though. :chuckle:

Its hard not to admit it.

Things don't make themselves.

patrick jane
October 14th, 2015, 08:50 PM
I can say I have met practically no atheists in my life.

glorydaz
October 14th, 2015, 09:02 PM
And.... here in TOL, it seems many that deny Him, are angry at Him. Hmmmmmmm. How can anyone be angry at something that doesn't exist?

Yeah, and when something horrible happens, they fall to their knees and beg Him to help them. "There are no atheists in foxholes" is so true, but they don't like to admit that either. :idunno:

Quincy
October 14th, 2015, 09:03 PM
The word creator is a vague term which can mean many things, from a deity to a natural process. It doesn't have to mean God. God is a term specific to Jewish and Christian tradition which involve beliefs in many miracles and an incarnation, among other things.

Just because it's logical to deduce that the universe has a creator, doesn't make for an easy bridge to accept the supernatural ideas presented by religion.

Quincy
October 14th, 2015, 09:05 PM
Yeah, and when something horrible happens, they fall to their knees and beg Him to help them.

Not true for all, though maybe for some people it is. I've never and will never do anything like that.

glorydaz
October 14th, 2015, 09:09 PM
Not true for all, though maybe for some people it is. I've never and will never do anything like that.

Never say never.....

glorydaz
October 14th, 2015, 09:10 PM
Its hard not to admit it.

Things don't make themselves.


The word creator is a vague term which can mean many things, from a deity to a natural process. It doesn't have to mean God. God is a term specific to Jewish and Christian tradition which involve beliefs in many miracles and an incarnation, among other things.

Just because it's logical to deduce that the universe has a creator, doesn't make for an easy bridge to accept the supernatural ideas presented by religion.

:Popcorn:

Quincy
October 14th, 2015, 09:26 PM
Never say never.....

Which you just said yourself, so perhaps you should never think "never" is impossible.


:Popcorn:

As I said, it's logical to know the universe has a creator but believing that means any particular religion is true is a different story.

glorydaz
October 14th, 2015, 09:44 PM
Which you just said yourself, so perhaps you should never think "never" is impossible.

Nice try. What I said is "never say never". I said nothing about something being impossible.




As I said, it's logical to know the universe has a creator but believing that means any particular religion is true is a different story.

Since you admit that much, then you'd best be seeking Him out. :)

Quincy
October 14th, 2015, 10:18 PM
Nice try. What I said is "never say never". I said nothing about something being impossible.


Yea, you said to never say never because no one knows the future but I know myself and you don't. That's more important, I'd think.


Since you admit that much, then you'd best be seeking Him out. :)

I'd love to meet Jesus. I really wish he would come back and settle the dispute one way or the other for good. That is the only proof I'd accept for the creator actually being as depicted in the bible.

Ask Mr. Religion
October 14th, 2015, 11:10 PM
Report: Even Atheists, Agnostics, Nonreligious Americans See Evidence for Creator (http://christiannews.net/2015/10/12/report-even-atheists-agnostics-nonreligious-americans-see-evidence-for-creator/)

The report points to the plain fact that the non-believer is without excuse. If only Christians would cease from taking the bait from the one who actually hates God, given their professed indifference or ignorance in claiming, "I do not know God exists" or "I need real proof God exists."

Christians regularly take the bait when they accept neutral ground exists between the non-believer and the believer. No such neutral ground exists. The plain facts as taught from Holy Writ is that all know God exists, but reject that knowledge and their duty to it, rationalizing a lie in favor of the truth. If anyone of our faith that denies this, then they must explain why anyone would be in Hell. Those in Hell gnash their teeth at God. The expression is not one of suffering, rather the expression is not far from what we know the equivalent of raising a defiant fist, or for the US folks, middle finger, Godward. Beloved, these persons hate God, for nothing they did in life, walking the old lady across the road, giving to charity, feeding the hungry, etc., was motivated by obedience to God (e.g., John 14:15;23). Not a single person in Hell sincerely repents of their predicament. For if their repentance was genuine, the person would readily accept that he or she is exactly where they should be. Who, among the faithful, would argue that we deserve nothing but the righteous judgement of God for our sins? Indeed, the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.

There is not a single non-believer that existed, exists, or will exist that does not borrow from the believer's intellectual capital on a daily basis. Granting them neutral ground is to give away that which the believer knows, assents and trusts (i.e., faith), bought with a terrible price.

AMR

ok doser
October 15th, 2015, 06:09 AM
Its hard not to admit it.

Things don't make themselves.

i'm working towards this (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4486348&postcount=119) with Gred Jennings, but he's stubborn

George Affleck
October 15th, 2015, 07:19 AM
The word creator is a vague term which can mean many things, from a deity to a natural process. It doesn't have to mean God. God is a term specific to Jewish and Christian tradition which involve beliefs in many miracles and an incarnation, among other things.

Just because it's logical to deduce that the universe has a creator, doesn't make for an easy bridge to accept the supernatural ideas presented by religion.

Please don't let there be a creator called God who has written the Bible! I would hate that. Please let it be vague and undetermined. Just let me hang on to my unbelief one more day!

I don't want to yield to Him!!

MrDeets
October 15th, 2015, 08:04 AM
I'd love to meet Jesus. I really wish he would come back and settle the dispute one way or the other for good. That is the only proof I'd accept for the creator actually being as depicted in the bible.

This problem was beautifully explained on youtube by darkmatter2525. If Jesus came back most people wouldn't recognize him, and most dang sure wouldn't like his message. :chuckle:

Jose Fly
October 15th, 2015, 10:08 AM
Looking at their data (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/files/2015/10/Creator.jpg), it looks like their results basically reflect the religious beliefs of the country as a whole (http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/).


According to the study, 72% of all Americans think that because the universe has organization, there is a creator who designed it. Over half of participants—52%—strongly agreed with that statement, while only 11% strongly disagreed.

The 11% is higher than I would expect, given that atheists and agnostics only make up about 7% of the population. That means about 4% of theists strongly disagree with "because the universe has organization, there is a creator who designed it".


Surprisingly, even nonreligious Americans admit that the evidence for a creator is undeniable. 46% of atheists, agnostics, and those without religious preferences also think that the universe’s organization bears witness to a creator.

I think there's a bit of slight of hand going on here. Notice how "atheists, agnostics, and those without religious preferences" are lumped into a single category? But as the Pew data shows "those without religious preferences" are not atheists or agnostics.

So how many actual atheists and agnostics agree with that statement? We can't say, as when you click the "download the research" button at LifeWay's website, all it takes you to is a powerpoint summary. Lame. :down:

PureX
October 15th, 2015, 10:18 AM
Yep. I'm surprised so many admit it. They'll deny it with the next breath, though. :chuckle:No, they deny the various religious versions of a Creator that they're encountering. There's a difference. Dogma is often religion's own worst enemy.

Interplanner
October 15th, 2015, 10:25 AM
We can do nothing against the truth, only for it. 2 Cor 12

glorydaz
October 15th, 2015, 10:50 AM
No, they deny the various religious versions of a Creator that they're encountering. There's a difference. Dogma is often religion's own worst enemy.

Really? I thought atheists didn't believe in God.

alwight
October 15th, 2015, 11:24 AM
The report points to the plain fact that the non-believer is without excuse. If only Christians would cease from taking the bait from the one who actually hates God, given their professed indifference or ignorance in claiming, "I do not know God exists" or "I need real proof God exists."Your special pleading for your own specific version of God is all rather pathetic.
I don't suppose you hate anyone else's version of a creator any more than I hate yours. :Plain:

PureX
October 15th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Really? I thought atheists didn't believe in God.I don't think this thread is about atheists. It's about non-religious folks believing in a "Creator" of some sort. I think there are quite a lot of people who prefer to let God be God, and not to explain and characterize God as religion does. Nor to use some idea of God to set themselves apart or above everyone else. Like I say, dogma is often religion's own worst enemy.

annabenedetti
October 15th, 2015, 11:37 AM
Looking at their data (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/files/2015/10/Creator.jpg), it looks like their results basically reflect the religious beliefs of the country as a whole (http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/).

I had the same thought as you, and I also took a look at the research (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/files/2015/10/American-Views-on-Reasons-to-Believe-in-a-Creator.pdf) yesterday (the powerpoint summary you mentioned) to see their methodology. Nowhere are there any data showing group sizes, how they were weighted, or what their "maximum quotas" were. Disappointing.


I think there's a bit of slight of hand going on here. Notice how "atheists, agnostics, and those without religious preferences" are lumped into a single category? But as the Pew data shows "those without religious preferences" are not atheists or agnostics.

So how many actual atheists and agnostics agree with that statement? We can't say, as when you click the "download the research" button at LifeWay's website, all it takes you to is a powerpoint summary. Lame. :down:Agreed again. "No preference" can't be assumed to be atheist or agnostic.

Interplanner
October 15th, 2015, 11:49 AM
Here is a fairly complete list of issues with U'ism. I'm not going to mention the source to avoid confusion about the journal's name, but you can find papers by scientists on each of these items and they are not necessarily by Christians. It is very likely that the dissenters from U'ist orthodoxy are unemployed, though.




Creation vs. Evolution

This site was completed after having grown weary of false evolutionary doctrine promoted by public television, national networks and other media, and taught in our public schools. Although "evolutionary theory" does not meet the universally accepted definition of 'theory' or 'hypothesis' or, for that matter, the universally accepted definition of 'science' (see section, Creation versus Evolution, for definitions), students continue to be taught evolution as “proven fact”—and later in life, they perpetuate this doctrine as teachers, journalists, and parents without question.

What many people today never hear and realize is the fact that so-called evolutionary theory is not based on known scientific laws or the preponderance of scientific evidence. Rather, scientific creation, as described in the Book of Genesis, is perfectly consistent with all known laws and evidence—and such evidence is overwhelming. The reality is, evolutionary doctrine is built on false assumptions and poor science. It is the greatest deception in modern history.
Why do secular scientists continue to adhere to a false evolutionary doctrine? This site provides the reasons, and summarizes much of the evidence for scientific creation. I ask any skeptical person to give this site an impartial reading before dismissing the scientific creationist viewpoint.

Consider the following evidence for Creation:

• Evolution is contrary to natural laws (without exception) whereas creation is consistent with natural laws—for example, creation is consistent with the laws of thermodynamics and law of biogenesis.

• There are no known biological processes for evolution to higher levels of organization and complexity—mutations are overwhelmingly degenerative and none are “uphill” (that is, unequivocally beneficial) in the sense of adding new genetic information to the gene pool.

• Geologic land-forms and sedimentary features are completely consistent with a worldwide flood as described in the Book of Genesis.

• Enormous limestone formations, huge coal and oil formations, and immense underground salt layers are indicative of a worldwide flood—not slow and gradual processes over billions of years. Such features are satisfactorily explained by a worldwide flood and known geophysical and geochemical processes.

• A worldwide flood as described in Genesis 6–8 is within the boundaries of known geophysics—see phase diagram in chapter 4 and Pangaea Flood Video at CreationScienceToday.com.

• There is no credible technique for establishing the age of sedimentary rock—fossil dating used to establish the age of sedimentary rock suffers from circular reasoning and guesswork, all based on the assumption of evolution.

• The standard geologic column with transitional creatures evolving toward more complex forms, as depicted in most science textbooks, is utterly fictitious and misleading, and does not represent the real world. In reality, it perfectly represents the aftermath of a worldwide flood.

• There are no transitional fossils or living forms—there is not one single example of evolution! Evolutionists look for “the” missing link—ironically, they are in desperate search for just one! But there should be billions of examples of transitional forms with transitional structures if evolution were true, but there are none. The bottom line, evolution has never been observed within fossils or living populations.

• Contrary to popular belief, evidence indicates that early man was intelligent and highly skilled with an advanced social structure. There is also evidence suggesting their belief in the existence of an afterlife.

• Soft tissues and traces of blood cells have been found in dinosaur fossils supposedly 70 to 250 million years old. (Soft tissues and red blood cells have relatively short life spans.)

• Carbon-14 has been found in coal and diamonds supposedly hundreds of millions of years old. (C-14 has a relatively short life-span.)

• Radioisotope dating suffers from multiple unprovable assumptions—the technique is “fatally flawed”—yet scientists contend as fact what they cannot prove.

• Abundant daughter isotopes are indicative of accelerated nuclear decay associated with creation (expansion, stretching out, or acceleration of the universe from an extremely hot, dense phase when matter and energy were concentrated) and a worldwide flood with massive restructuring of the earth’s lithosphere, not slow and gradual processes over billions of years.

• Evidences of accelerated nuclear decay in igneous rocks found worldwide are helium in zircon crystals, radio-halos and fission tracks, and rapid magnetic field reversals and decay.
• Over a hundred geochronometers indicate a young earth and universe.

Each of these evidences, examined individually, is enough to convince most rational people that evolution is a false doctrine and the earth is, in fact, young!

Article from _____

Jose Fly
October 15th, 2015, 11:57 AM
I had the same thought as you, and I also took a look at the research (http://www.lifewayresearch.com/files/2015/10/American-Views-on-Reasons-to-Believe-in-a-Creator.pdf) yesterday (the powerpoint summary you mentioned) to see their methodology. Nowhere are there any data showing group sizes, how they were weighted, or what their "maximum quotas" were. Disappointing.

Disappointing, but not surprising.


Agreed again. "No preference" can't be assumed to be atheist or agnostic.

Only if the folks conducting the survey had an agenda that they tried to spin the results towards. Oh well...can't blame 'em for trying!

Interplanner
October 15th, 2015, 12:01 PM
Disappointing, but not surprising.



Only if the folks conducting the survey had an agenda that they tried to spin the results towards. Oh well...can't blame 'em for trying!



I guess you don't know that there are several polls that show that outside of the stream of academia (which are seminaries of liberalism and U'ism), the %s of high view of the Bible, the Creator, the Gospel are pretty high. The critical question therefore is what distance is the poll from that (polluted) stream?

patrick jane
October 15th, 2015, 12:02 PM
I've done my own study and found 9 of 10 people belive in a higher power/God. My research has been ongoing for 40 years beginning in 1975.

Interplanner
October 15th, 2015, 12:04 PM
I've done my own study and found 9 of 10 people belive in a higher power/God. My research has been ongoing for 40 years beginning in 1975.



What % would say they are 'highly influenced' by their public, secular US university education, if any?

Angel4Truth
October 15th, 2015, 02:37 PM
Yea, you said to never say never because no one knows the future but I know myself and you don't. That's more important, I'd think.

I'd love to meet Jesus. I really wish he would come back and settle the dispute one way or the other for good. That is the only proof I'd accept for the creator actually being as depicted in the bible.


This problem was beautifully explained on youtube by darkmatter2525. If Jesus came back most people wouldn't recognize him, and most dang sure wouldn't like his message. :chuckle:


This says it best:

Luke 16:31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"